Re: IMAP don'ts to get things working better
Hi Jonathan, On 12/07/2005 09:27 AM -0500, you wrote: See, this is where I get confused. On my settings, I have don't synchronize on all, and I don't have it set to peek inside certain folders for mail counts, and yet it still goes inside every folder to see the contents. I'm guessing that has something to do with the account option Synchronize folders ever x minutes under the IMAP fine tune. Your guess is right. TB! will check each subscribed folder for new messages etc. at the interval set in the fine tune option. It'd be nice if the folder level settings would work in conjunction with the account level setting, and only synchronize those that you request. This is exactly what I'm referring to. - I don't use a server side Outbox. It's just troublesome and often leads to multiple messages being sent and multiple messages being in the outbox when using the intermittent save option while composing. I've not used it, or even attempted to use it since my last hell with it where I flooded TBBETA with 9 of the same message. Despite it being reported being fixed, I still have my doubts. It's still not working right after trying a couple days ago. - setting up a server side filter to move all unfiltered mail to another mailbox so that I don't have to use the Inbox. I, to be honest, don't have any issues with my INBOX. What issues are you having? I could very well be having them, just subconsciously ignoring them ;) I'm having pretty frequent hanging of the requests for folder count updates and flagging updates. This invariably happens when I start browsing the Inbox soon after startup. I've also noted that it's happening with other mailboxes, so my initial assumption that it was a problem specific only to the Inbox is wrong. When the requests hang, the mailbox counts are stuck and flagging changes only occur locally and not on the server. Doing a server disconnect/reconnect is the only way to fix the stuck requests and furthermore, you have to reflag the messages. Here is another annoyance for you. Multiple connections. I know I've spoken to you about them in the past, and you had issues with more than a certain number of connections. I recently noticed that TB's handling of multiple connections leaves a little to be desired. I confirm all all your observations on this issue and can only agree with your recommendations for a solution. -- Allie Martin System specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Some people act crazy, others aren't acting. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
IMAP: Mailbox flags/counts hanging
Hi all, Of late, I've been getting pretty frequent episodes where the message counts/flagging update requests for a mailbox is stuck in the queue. This is easily seen via the CC. As a result, the message count for the mailbox is stuck and flag changes for the mailbox occurs only locally in the cache. The only way to undo the problem is to do a disconnect/reconnect operation. The annoying part is that it's not immediately evident, so when the stick in the queue is undone, all those messages you read are still marked as unread after updating with the server. As a result of this, you have to go through and mark them read again. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- One way to better your lot is to do a lot better... Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP: Server side outbox
On Monday, July 11, 2005 at 4:24:19 AM [GMT -0500], Peter Fjelsten wrote: I have been working with 9Val for a resolution of this for months (not constantly). Ritlabs are definitely aware of the problem. It's a complex problem since the typical client uses a draft folder. When you wish to interrupt composing, you can save a copy of the message to the draft folder. There is no server side outbox as tb has with their delivery queues being managed locally. Looks like with a server side outbox, the queued mail for delivery is stored on the server. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- HARDWARE: n. The part you kick. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Message List not showing fully
Hi all, The capture better shows what I'd otherwise have difficulty explaining. http://pics.aimlink.name/weird.png The list columns can easily hold within the space provided, and yet the subject column is not in full view. The absence of the scroll-bar makes it very difficult to fix the problem too. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- NEWS! Police begin campaign to run down jaywalkers Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP: Server side outbox
On Saturday, July 09, 2005 at 2:10:24 PM [GMT -0500], Allie Martin wrote: Each time the message draft is to be auto-saved while composing, I get the following error: - !9/7/2005, 14:06:42: IMAP - 1: Could not compose the message for uploading Please verify the amount of free disk space Integrity checking of the folder Outbox would not be a bad idea The error seems to come up while composing the first message after a TB! startup. It disappears after that. However, I'm now having a buildup of draft messages in my outbox, so here ends my testing which has failed on two different IMAP servers, i.e., MDaemon Pro and FastMail's Cyrus IMAP. I'm now back to using a local Outbox. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Diplomacy - the art of letting someone have your way. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Message List not showing fully
On Sunday, July 10, 2005 at 10:36:42 AM [GMT -0500], Alexander S. Kunz wrote: That sounds like the bug I was describing in msgid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Maybe its related? I no longer have the message in my tbbeta folder and therefore can't comment. I also can't search for messages by msgid on the archives pages. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- (A)bort (R)etry (F)ail (U)nplug (S)ell. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Message List not showing fully
On Sunday, July 10, 2005 at 3:40:28 PM [GMT -0500], Allie Martin wrote: I no longer have the message in my tbbeta folder and therefore can't comment. I also can't search for messages by msgid on the archives pages. Alexander, Thanks for sending the message off-list. This is very similar to what you describe. The interesting thing is that the problem with the list remains when you exit and reopen the folder with the problem. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- It is bad luck to be superstitious. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
IMAP: Server side outbox
Hi all, I switched to using a server side outbox to see how things are going with using it. Each time the message draft is to be auto-saved while composing, I get the following error: - !9/7/2005, 14:06:42: IMAP - 1: Could not compose the message for uploading Please verify the amount of free disk space Integrity checking of the folder Outbox would not be a bad idea -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP: Server side outbox
On Saturday, July 09, 2005 at 2:45:51 PM [GMT -0500], Vili wrote: I dont have it... In return if I open a draft mail, it is empty... :) I once had a message that I saved as a draft and I could open it and continue composing without problems. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N) Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.51
Hi James, On 7/7/2005 9:04 AM +0300, you wrote: Or could it be just your time of the month? Men don't experience that .. unless you do? Is that why you're asking? :) -- Allie Martin System specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Dumb luck beats sound planning every time. Trust me. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.51
Hi Tony, On 7/7/2005 11:09 AM +0100, you wrote: Allie, as a married man you know full well men do experience that. LOL! I can't help but wonder though if my name is again a source of confusion. I've been referred to as her/she and even sent private messages with obvious connotations that I'm assumed to be female. This is the first time I've been asked that. :) -- Allie Martin System specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Runtime Error 6D at 417A:32CF: Incompetent User. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: 3.51
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 10:20 AM, Tony Boom wrote: I can't be doing with this. I'm trying to play fair, done everything that you lot suggested and then some but TB just won't play cricket! In the IMAP fine tune, there's an option to test the IMAP connection. What happens when you run the test? The test button is beside the connection number setting. Additionally, I have my number of connections set to 4. I note it not to be any different from 2. Why have yours at 10? Have you tried 2 connections? -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...SENILE.COM found: out of memory... Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: 3.51
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 10:11 AM, Tony Boom wrote: Well I probably don't but if 10 connections are available and TB only uses 6 then the other four are spare just in case. I don't want to speak too soon but apart from the cache problem doubling everything up, things seem OK so far. I've watched the CC on a slow connection and TB! seems to use only 2 connections at a time. So setting the connection numbers to 10 will likely not help. At least not with the current builds. I have automatic disconnection disabled as well. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Famous last words - Jesus Christ: Father, beam me up. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[4]: 3.51
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 09:18 AM, Avi Yashar wrote: But what happens when you reach 3.9? Does that mean that you cannot have any more major updates of the 3.x release? Does that mean that RL is obliged to come out with the 4.x series? The answer is no. 3.9 can be followed by 3.10 and onwards for as long as needed. This is not mathematics. It is just a versioning system. 3.1 cannot follow 3.9. 3.9 is a larger number than 3.1. I hope you meant, 3.9.1 ...3.9.2 etc. or 3.91 .. 3.92 .. 3.92.01 ... 3.92.05 ... 3.93 etc. As nobody declared the 3.5 release to be 3.50, there is no reason that I can see to come out with 3.51. LOL. 3.5 = 3.50 = 3.500 = 3.5000 = 3.5000 Usually, we drop the zeros since they don't provide any added meaning as such and after-all, they're the same. This is as semantic a criticism as they come. You've just defined the meaning of semantic. But having said all that, let's face the facts. There are many different systems of version numbering. The problem with the RL system is that there is no clear system. The version numbers streak from one direction to the next, like a bat out of h**l. LOL!!! -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Oxymoron: Slow speed. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[3]: IMAP problems
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 07:36 AM, Stuart Cuddy wrote: I have now joined the fray with a free fastmail account and I am seeing the same kind of thing. I have noticed that when you receive the No Message Loaded message that by selecting a different folder and then returning things start to work properly. I see this pretty regularly, though only in a particular circumstance: Say that I'm reading mail in TBBETA. New mail is added to the TBBETA mailbox through server side filtering and the count in TB! updates with the server check. If I select one of these newly added messages, the message seems to load, however, it's not displayed. All that I end up with is the 'no message loaded' screen. I say that the message seems to load because I'll see the progress bar appear and move to the right to completion. It then disappears and the preview pane flickers and instead of the message body appearing, it's the no message loaded. I have to move to another folder and then return in order for the message to display as it should. This is the problem Gary has a lot. He browses his Inbox and gets a lot of these problems since messages are being frequently added. This disrupts the loading of message bodies. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...We give nothing as willingly as our advice. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP: Endless message list refreshing
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 05:58 AM, Dimitry Andric wrote: But I also regularly have another strange effect: some random IMAP folder (usually the Inbox, but it might also be any other) starts an endless refresh. The connection centre keeps on displaying message list from xxx, and NEVER stops, until I either quit The Bat, or abort all operations. See attached screenshot, which shows the connection centre with Remove completed unchecked. Wow! I can't say that I've ever seen that one. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...He who Laughs, Lasts. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Mathematical Genius
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 11:35 AM, Gary wrote: M ...and important messages show up twice whereas unimportant messages don't M even get loaded. :D Hey, that's what we want. ;-) that made me laugh out loud for real... I like that concept, you are forced to read the important stuff... I had a good laugh myself. It had me thinking that such good dry humour about TB! IMAP woes abound here since most are happily using an alternative client while testing TB! for improvements. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...A hunch is creativity trying to tell you something. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Mathematical Genius
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 11:48 AM, Gary wrote: BTW, sorry for the double post on this thread. ... and here I was passing it off as an IMAP glitch that would soon right itself. :) -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Honey, PLEASE don't pick up the [EMAIL PROTECTED]$^(#@$^%(*NO CARRIER Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Race, what race?
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 12:26 PM, Clive Taylor wrote: I run both programmes here using the same servers Tony does without problems but don't seem to suffer the extreme issues (apart from stalled mailboxes) that he does. Maybe his ten connections by TB! and the 2 from Mulberry to the IMAP server may be a problem? I personally don't have any problems really when running both concurrently. They both seem to behave as if they each were the only ones running. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Procrastination Day Has Been Postponed! Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Race, what race?
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 11:16 AM, Tony Boom wrote: I wasn't trying to flag anything, I was just trying to read an unread message. Comments RL? I get these sometimes. Flagging in IMAP may refer to flagging messages as read, replied, forwarded, deleted, important etc. All of those are flags. However, in TB! lingua, flagging is enabling that red flag in the list flag. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[6]: 3.51
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 12:53 PM, Avi Yashar wrote: Allie, I said 3.10, not 3.1. Please see Alexander Kunz's explanation. I believe he said it better than I did. Version numbering almost always exhibits a natural mathematical progression unless, the number defines a date or have some other similar meaning, or numbers are separated by non-numeric string. 3.10 is less than 3.9 3.1 is less than 3.9 3.10 cannot follow 3.9, claiming to be a later version. Not from how TB!'s version numbering has proceeded over the years. With all the sudden jumps or changes in TB! version numbering that's intended and not a typo, there has always been a mathematical increase in the numbers. If you've installed the latest MSI, open the readme file in the installation directory and follow the version numbering from TB!'s earliest versions. There has always been a mathematical progression in version numbering. Proposing that 3.10 follow 3.9 would certainly take them way off course with how they've been doing their numbering. The point is that version numbers are not purely mathematical. This may indeed be the case for only a few apps. However, TB!'s version numbering has always followed a mathematical progression. Indeed, some times they include a combination of numeric and alphabetic characters. For example, 3.5b1 would be 3.5 Beta 1 and 3.5c1 would be 3.5 Release Candidate 1. However, the numeric components follow a natural mathematic progression, especially when separated by 'periods'. x.y.z follows a single numeric progression. However, for x.y stringz z follows its own numeric progression while x.y follows a numeric progression. The only way your proposal could work is if it were like: v3 beta/9 going to v3 beta/10 10 follows 9. Again, I'm speaking of TB!'s version numbering since its first release and not for apps in general. So, with their system, they can follow 3.5.36 with 3.51. When beta testing is complete, the FCS (or production-level release) would be 3.5. You aren't going backwards by dropping those extra numbers (as would be the case mathematically) Right. - it is just that those extra characters define a stage of development. Yes. So my point was only that 3.5 is not at all the same as 3.50. That is true in mathematics, but it is not necessarily so with respect to software versioning. With regards to TB!'s versioning system, it could indeed mean the same. This is as semantic a criticism as they come. You've just defined the meaning of semantic. I don't think so. I am arguing for a logical and consistent system of version numbering with TB. ... and then propose that *for TB!*, 3.10 could follow 3.9? -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Put on your seatbelt. I'm gonna try something new. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Race, what race?
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 01:23 PM, Clive Taylor wrote: Not only that but Ritlabs have bought shares in FastMail and are planning to improve its servers based on their new-found understanding of IMAP. They're going to go through the accounts alphabetically. Mulberry works so well with FastMail, that I think they long ago bought shares and have been through all the accounts down to 'z'. :) -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...I am, therefore I am (I don't draw conclusions). Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[5]: IMAP problems
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 01:22 PM, Tony Boom wrote: Say that I'm reading mail in TBBETA. Your reading mail in TBBETA LOL!!! Er Tony, you didn't say it; you wrote it! Tsk!!! To properly follow instructions, please send a voicemail. ;) -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Always remember no matter where you go, there you are. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[4]: 3.51
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 01:14 PM, Tony Boom wrote: I've given up on it now totally. It works but it's just *so much effort* trying to keep on top of it, keeping up with it and trying to understand what it's doing is just too tiring. It's now telling me half my mailboxes don't exist even though it has them in the folder tree complete with the correct message count. It tells me I have 80 unread messages when there are only 7 in the folder, it tell me it can't flag messages when all I want to do is read the message, never said anything about flagging the bloody things. Stick a pin! Time Out!:) We're both running TB!. We're both using FastMail accounts. Our experiences are like night and day in their difference. You know that I'm not without problems. However, I can be using TB! for mail despite being one who doesn't take well to being hassled excessively. In the end, I just want to read my mail too and that's what I'm currently doing with TB!. I do wonder why we have such contrasting experiences and I do believe it may be a connection issue. Our contrasting experience, makes me remember the days when there were many who wouldn't take to the idea that NAV could be interfering with TB! when it doesn't interfere with other e-mail clients and never interfered with TB! for years. The same can be said for Zone Alarm. Many who had problems with it and TB!, *including myself*, were resistant to entertaining ZA as being the problem because it didn't affect other e-mail clients and that TB! worked for a long time with it. However, with these experiences, we know all too well, that our machines aren't static and that what wasn't a problem before can become a problem, and a problem that affects one application cannot be dismissed as being caused by factor A, simply because the same factor A doesn't affect similar applications. Our difference in experience forces me to think along these lines, in that there's a factor at work here. One that Mulberry is immune to. Initially, I thought it was a difference in TB! configuration. However, it seems not to be. So I have to think along the lines of the connection. Now, I'm not saying that your machine is ailing, while TB! is OK. Not at all. However, there's something about your machine's setup and its connection to your ISP that may be interfering with how TB! does its thing with the IMAP server, while Mulberry isn't bothered. Let me give you an example. When I started using Mulberry, incessant crashing on sending messages had me throwing it aside in haste. When TB! got worse, I revisited Mulberry and took days on end trying to figure out why the darn thing crashed so much. What had me thinking that it was something specific to my system was that Gary did not have the crashes and he was using the same Mulberry version with the same IMAP server. After much searching, I discovered that it was a server setting that was causing it. Once I disabled the setting, all was fine. Of course, Gary didn't have that setting enabled on his server. During all of this, TB! had no problems whatever sending mail, and it still doesn't. Your problems certainly make for food for thought. The question is how to debug the problem. Your debug logs are likely where the questions will be answered. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...The pendulum has gone full circle. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: 3.51
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 01:48 PM, Manuel Breitfeld wrote: Without having read the whole thread, I just want to point out, that it's not always that mathematical and therefore logical as you did point out. CVS's numbering system for instance goes like this 1.1 ... 1.9 1.10 1.19 1.20. That's the opposite of the way you described. I've been referring to TB!'s version numbering and not version numbering in general. TB!'s version numbering has never really followed the CVS numbering method. It has always been a mathematical progression. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Do NOT look into laser with remaining eyeball! Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[4]: Race, what race?
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 01:27 PM, Tony Boom wrote: You keep commenting on my 10 connections, 2, 10 or a 100, there is no difference in the performance which ever I use. .. since your comment that you've always had it set to 2 connections, I now realize that I've been barking up the wrong tree. I don't go up to 10 connections since I've had problems when I tried going above 8 connections. I was just experimenting at the time. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Leftists are among the first to speak of their rights. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Race, what race?
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 01:33 PM, Tony Boom wrote: Which is not what I was trying to do, all I did was click once on an unread message. TB! works with the IMAP server on a queued basis. What you're *actually* doing may not be what TB! is actually doing with the server in terms of commands being sent at a given moment. So you may be seeing errors for a command that your current action has nothing to do with. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle buttons Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[6]: 3.51
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 02:09 PM, Tony Boom wrote: Well 9Val has had them for the past month. He might still be correcting the spelling mistakes though chuckle I'm pretty familiar with how the log goes too. You could send me the log for a short problem session. I could have a look as well. Don't forget to zip it!!! -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...11th Commandment: covet not thy neighbour's Pentium. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: 3.51
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 02:02 PM, Manuel Breitfeld wrote: The effect that I would recommend the following numbering system doesn't change anything, however I just want to write it down. ;) I would recommend to have a major number and two minor numbers separated by a dot. v3.50 - v3.51 - ... - v3.60 - ... - v4.00 - v4.01 This would be for release versions, right. The beta's could follow the old 3.60 beta/xx numbering or the more recent v3.51.xx numbering. However, if there's a quick fix release version to this v3.51, then this would force RIT to release 3.51.01 or something similar as a full release version. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Make it as simple as possible, but no simpler. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[4]: 3.51
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 02:15 PM, Avi Yashar wrote: Again, Allie, that is not entirely true. 3.5.0.31 does not mathematically follow 3.5.30. That's a famous mistake that was admitted as such. This is why I said, barring the typos and admitted errors, TB!'s versioning has followed a mathematical progression. Have you checked the read me file -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Never say, Oops!; always say, Ah, interesting! Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[4]: 3.51
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 02:15 PM, Avi Yashar wrote: Sorry, Allie, but I just don't follow why you are so dogmatic on this point. BTW, where did this come from?? You were the one making the semantic comment. I have to counter it with similar semantic commentary. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Happiness isn't getting what you want, it's wanting what you got Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[8]: 3.51
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 02:01 PM, Avi Yashar wrote: That is not exactly correct. If you recall, 3.5.30 was followed by 3.5.0.31 (or something like that). And it was not the first time this has happened. So I am only proposing that a clear and consistent system be adopted. Again, check the thread. This was later corrected. Note that the release version before 3.51 was 3.5.36. Maxim made a mistake in the version number. It was not indicated as such but pounced on as being a change in version numbering. 9Val later said it was an error and the next version was 3.5.32. Nothing is stopping RL from releasing 3.5.38. Why must RL go from 3.5 to 3.51? It makes no sense to me. Like I said, this is not mathematics. Either change the third group of digits or go from 3.5 to 3.6. :) I guess TB! is working very, very well for you then. If you've installed the latest MSI, open the readme file in the installation directory and follow the version numbering from TB!'s earliest versions. There has always been a mathematical progression in version numbering. Yes and no. Take for example the series: 1.1 to 1.101 to 1.14 to 1.15. Now that might be mathematical, but surely you can see that the 1.101 stands out and is confusing. Why couldn't it have been 1.11 or 1.12 or 1.13? Who cares in so long as they stick to some progression/system. That's really a small point there. You do seem to see my point though that there's a mathematical progression in their system. Proposing that 3.10 follow 3.9 would certainly take them way off course with how they've been doing their numbering. I don't think so. It is just a different way of looking at that numbering. .. which is different from how they've always looked at it. Here you are saying that 1.1 to 1.101 to 1.14 to 1.15 should be 1.1 to 1.11 to 1.14 to 1.15, and then you're proposing that they depart from their time honoured system. Perhaps the main exception would be the peculiar 1.101 that I mentioned above. But, looking at the readme file, I see several styles of version numbering: 1.xx.xx 1.xx Build 1.xx Preview Yes. But all follow simple mathematical progression. They've never deviated. No sense in deviating now. No need to. 3.5 should have been 3.50 to make the numbers look more consistent in syntax. That's all. No need for anything else. Manuel has the correct proposal to fit TB!'s current version numbering system. Like I said, that is just one way of looking at things - and not really the most significant way of looking at things, in my opinion. If they are just different ways without any difference in value, then who really cares? What would changing it do but disrupt? But there need not be a conflict here. The simple solution would have been to number this release as 3.5.38 or 3.6. That would have satisfied both of us. Me? I'm far more concerned with IMAP than version numbers. Believe me. So much more concerned in fact, that version numbering issues amount to light conversation. I laughed initially because it was something I didn't really care about either way. Again, what system? The system of numbering has changed many times. There are specific trends that change. However, there's a general trend that doesn't. If you can't see the general trend, then so be it. Allie, you see a system where I see a hodgepodge. As I said, so be it. I think you give too much importance to this weak mathematical thread (that RL has not been consistent in following anyway... as you well know... 3.5.0.31 being a recent example). chuckle Actually, I don't. Come to think of it, I should not have commented in the first place. Yes... but do you really think it will get that far before RL hits us up for another donation? ;-) So is that where you're coming from?? If RIT want a donation, they'll just ask for it. They may come up with upgrade protection soon. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 Sytem Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Get the facts first - you can distort them later! Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[4]: Race, what race?
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 02:15 PM, Tony Boom wrote: Like when I tell it to delete messages off the server and it totally ignores me, forgets all about it and goes and does something else you mean? That's *exactly* what I mean. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Some minds should be cultivated, others plowed under... Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[3]: IMAP: Fastmail missing messages
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 02:13 PM, Stuart Cuddy wrote: Does anyone who is using fastmail for The Bat lists feel they are missing messages? Nope. Not here. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Every thing in this world is an idea acted on. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[8]: 3.51
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 02:43 PM, Tony Boom wrote: I'll send them to you... Er, what is it I have to do again? You currently can enable debug logging by creating a file called protocol.ini in your IMAP account folder. In the file put: [IMAP] Logging=1 log=path and filename you wish to save the logging to -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...$$$ not found -- (A)bort (R)efinance (B)ankrupt Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[6]: 3.51
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 02:41 PM, Avi Yashar wrote: You were the one making the semantic comment. I have to counter it with similar semantic commentary. Allie, you are not obliged to counter everything I say. You may have misunderstood 'have to' used the way I did. It could have two meanings there. It could mean that I felt compelled or obliged to counter your comments. It could mean that I had to use similar commentary. So the 'have to' referred to using similar semantic commentary, rather than the act of replying to/countering your comments. I assure you that I didn't feel obliged or obligated or compelled to reply to your message or any other of your messages. :) -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Don't force it, use a bigger hammer. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[5]: IMAP: Fastmail missing messages
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 02:54 PM, Stuart Cuddy wrote: Do you know what your Spam filter is set to do in Fastmail? My freeby account has no access. It's set to custom. It's set to delete any message with a spam score greater than 15 and to place messages with a spam score greater than 5 in my junk message folder. Someone could have a black or grey-listed IP that's 'polluting' all messages within the thread. As a result, all messages with the IP are being filtered. I noted this problem when I had fastmail doing the default prefixing of the subjects of messages deemed as spam. I had a lot of messages in my TBBETA folder appearing with the [spam] prefix in them. A suspect IP address was in their headers. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Useless Invention: Anklet wristwatches for contortionists. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[7]: IMAP: Fastmail missing messages
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005, at 03:07 PM, Stuart Cuddy wrote: This could be what is happening, but I have no way of knowing. AM I noted this problem when I had fastmail doing the default prefixing AM of the subjects of messages deemed as spam. I had a lot of messages in AM my TBBETA folder appearing with the [spam] prefix in them. A suspect AM IP address was in their headers. Hmmm. I am only trying it for testing purposes and do not want to have to pay for it ATM. I'm surprised that you don't have a junk mail folder that they dump the 'supposed' spam into, rather than delete them. You know, since using the service, I'm yet to restore a single message from my spam folder and not many spam messages get past their filters. I'd say no more than 3 to 4 per day. I get close to 100 spam messages per day. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.51 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Junk: stuff we throw away. Stuff: junk we keep. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.51
On Wednesday, July 06, 2005 at 11:57:26 PM [GMT -0500], James (Jay) Walker wrote: And, FWIW (although only Allie seems to have a block here), in the outline numbering system, 3.9 would be followed by 3.10. I'm familiar with it, but TB! doesn't use that system. Never has. Why should it now?? -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Never deprive someone of hope; it may be all they have. Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[4]: The Bat! 3.5.34 is now available
On Tuesday, July 05, 2005, at 09:04 AM, Tony Boom wrote: Are there requests in queue when it occurs? How do you view messages (main window, ticker)? I never look at the Connection Centre and I only ever read the preview pane, never use the ticker. Well then, are you going to assist by firing up the CC and seeing what's happening while 'no message loaded' is perenially visible? What you could do as well is to enable debug logging of the IMAP session. Create a text file called protocol.ini and save it to the directory for your IMAP account. In it, put the following lines: [IMAP] Logging=1 log=path and filename you wish to save the logging to You can send the contents of the generated log file to 9Val for analysis. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Vuja De - The Feeling You've Never Been Here Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Re[2]: The Bat! 3.5.34 is now available
Hi Tony, On 05/07/2005 03:29 PM +0100, you wrote: Maybe a picture might be worth a thousand words. As you can see from the screen shot my TBBETA folder has 101 messages in it. I highlighted one and got the expected result... No Message Loaded. Displayed the CC for you to see for yourself and it will sit like that doing nothing all day or until I completely shut TB down. Interesting. I don't see any hanged requests in the queue. I guess the next thing to do would be to enable the debug logging and sending it to 9Val. -- Allie Martin System specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- I am in total control, but don't tell my wife. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.5.36
Hi Tony, On 05/07/2005 02:55 PM +0100, you wrote: Allie explained to me the way TB's IMAP works compared to other IMAP clients and it seems to me it works the complete opposite to everything else. I'm not a programmer but that seems a bit suss to me. It doesn't work the complete opposite to everything else. This is simply not true. -- Allie Martin System specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- I am in total control, but don't tell my wife. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Re[2]: IMAP don'ts to get things working better
Hi 9Val, On 05/07/2005 04:19 PM +0300, you wrote: TB!'s parking and flagging are not standard. It is wrong suggestion - TB! uses standard flags both for flagging and parking. Which one does it use for parking? I see that the standard 'flag' for marking a message as 'important' is what TB! uses for flagging a message. However, when I park a message, I don't see any specific flag enabled when I look at the message in Mulberry. Which flag does parking use? -- Allie Martin System specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- I am in total control, but don't tell my wife. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: 3.5.36
On Tuesday, July 05, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Tony Boom wrote: Mulberry collects headers and displays email instantly here without *any* noticeable delays. The Bat doesn't display them at all here, all I get is no message loaded for hours at a time. I'd say that was pretty much the complete opposite wouldn't you? Ah. I mistook you for being serious. My apologies. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...(A)bort, (R)etry, (F)orget It! Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[4]: The Bat! 3.5.34 is now available
On Tuesday, July 05, 2005, at 10:41 AM, Tony Boom wrote: Like I said before, how many copies of my logs will he need? I'd send a 'short one' again. After deleting the debug log file if you currently have one already: Start TB! with debug logging enabled. Wait for 10 seconds, then select an IMAP folder and then select a message within it for viewing. If it doesn't load, wait a moment. Disconnect from the server and reconnect. Wait for 5 or so seconds and then send the log. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Fad: In one era and out the other. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[3]: IMAP account, Drafts, bug?
On Tuesday, July 05, 2005, at 02:10 PM, Vili wrote: My goal is to UNDERSTAND the differences between my system and their system. This is how a bug can be caught For me, it's one of not using the Inbox.draft as my Outbox. While using TB! in its current state of development, a server side Outbox working well is a shoot in the dark and one that I assume is more likely than not to miss the mark. TB! IMAP has problems with a server side outbox and this is likely worsened when the assigned server side outbox is a subfolder of the Inbox. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...A library is an arsenal of liberty. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP account, Drafts, bug 2a.
On Tuesday, July 05, 2005, at 02:17 PM, Vili wrote: My log shows: IMAP - 1: The folder INBOX.Drafts selected. 0 recent, 0 unread out of 2 total messages So, where is that 2 mails? It seems, that the server send the info, that this mailbox has 2 mails, I have seen 2 for a sec beside the name of the Outbox, but that changes back to 0, and it does not show anything,just 0. So the problem is at the mail retrieving. Sounds like those two mails were deleted from the local cache and not from the server. TB! has failed to update with the server. As a result, they were removed from the message list, though they're still there on the server. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Spell chequers dew knot work write. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP don'ts to get things working better
On Monday, July 04, 2005 at 4:06:25 AM [GMT -0500], Tony Boom wrote: As far as I remember if you park a message in TB it will show flagged as important in Mulberry and vice versa, as far as I remember that is. I just tried it. Parking doesn't show up in Mulberry. However, flagging in TB! shows up as flagging as important in Mulberry. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Positive: Mistaken at the top of one's voice. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Editor Toolbar will not go back where I put it
On Sunday, July 03, 2005 at 4:02:27 AM [GMT -0500], Miguel Urech wrote: It's proving to be quite an easily corrupted file. I wouldn't say it is 'corrupted', just not updated properly. ... while a new one is updated just fine. Now why isn't the old one being updated properly. There's a problem with it = corruption, though minor. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Imagination is more important than knowledge - Einstein Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP don'ts to get things working better
On Sunday, July 03, 2005 at 8:41:34 AM [GMT -0500], Dwight A Corrin wrote: Maybe there is some way I'm missing to do a few other server side message management functions? Nope. A lot of what you can do to messages in TB! are just POP stuff which may be done only to the local cache copies of messages or the local cache of the message list. These changes cannot be stored server side since they aren't supported server side. I would like to be able to flag messages. There are standard flags that are supported server side and that will be seen by other clients. These are read, unread, priority, replied, forwarded, important. Some servers, like Cyrus IMAP also support non-standard flags that are configurable. Mulberry supports these non-standard flag options that allows for colour labelling of messages. TB!'s parking and flagging are not standard. I think TB! already will use a non-standard server flag for it's own flagging, so you'll see the flagging retained across different TB! installations. However, you'll not be able to appreciate the flags when using other clients like ThunderBird or Mulberry. I would like to be able to delete the HTML component of messages and have it stick. I haven't tried to do this, but I think when you delete the HTML component, you're deleting the HTML component from the cached copy of the message and not the copy on the server. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Worry : The interest paid on trouble before it's due Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP: Move mails to folder
On Sunday, July 03, 2005 at 7:12:03 AM [GMT -0500], Raymund Tump wrote: I found another way, which was relatively fast: First I sync'ed the folder with full messages and then I simply selected all and moved them to my local folder. That's it. (Took around 30 min.) I'll keep that tip in mind. Thanks. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- No good deed goes unpunished - Clare Booth Luce Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 5:06:02 AM [GMT -0500], Miguel Urech wrote: Yes, I always forget that IMAP exists and that things are (may be) different there. I don't mind singing that odd note here and there for you. :) -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Oxymoron: Small Crowd. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Editor Toolbar will not go back where I put it
On Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 5:13:58 AM [GMT -0500], Miguel Urech wrote: Yes, weird. I still think it has something to do with tbuser.def. It probably does. But I don't wish to go through another cycle of having to delete the file and reconfigure all my shortcuts etc. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- I'm going to graduate on time, no matter how long it takes. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
IMAP don'ts to get things working better
Hi all, I've been using TB! IMAP quite comfortably. However, I'm now having an Inbox problem that doesn't seem to affect other mailboxes. I'm therefore considering a workaround. It's then that it struck me that I use a lot of workarounds with TB!. I'll list them here so that others and the developers know that I don't just use TB! IMAP, but I have to coax it to work. - I avoid working with large mailboxes, i.e., no more than 4000 messages per mailbox. This may be even less if I end up having say 5 or more folders with a large amount of messages. - I currently don't subscribe to my junk mail or other mailboxes that I check infrequently. I check those via webmail. I do this because they interfere with smooth reading of unread mail while jumping from mailbox to mailbox automatically. I wish I could be subscribed to a mailbox but not have its counts updated unless I explicitly request it. - I don't use a server side Outbox. It's just troublesome and often leads to multiple messages being sent and multiple messages being in the outbox when using the intermittent save option while composing. - I don't filter much with TB! - I avoid opening large attachments in my lower bandwidth environment. I save them for when I get home. I may get multiple attachments in a single message, with a few being appropriate for viewing in a low bandwidth setting. However, TB! is all or none with attachment retrieval. - I don't use any of the synchronise settings for any of my mailboxes. I disable synchronization for all mailboxes. - I no longer use the ticker. I may revisit this since I haven't tried it in a long time. - I don't manage my mailboxes using TB!. I do it server side, i.e., mailbox creations and deletions or making a folder a sub-folder or another. and my latest addition that I'm currently contemplating. - setting up a server side filter to move all unfiltered mail to another mailbox so that I don't have to use the Inbox. So with all these 'workarounds'/avoiding or steering clear of behaviours may be creating an impression of tranquility. However, it's artificial in that I really shouldn't have to be avoiding features. However, with all that, I still somewhat prefer what it's doing now to Mulberry. I'm getting hooked again on the templates and MicroEd so I may be getting swooned into tolerating some 'gyrations' to get things working Ok. :) -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N) Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP don'ts to get things working better
On Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 10:52:29 AM [GMT -0500], Manuel Breitfeld wrote: What's so curious about your inbox? Why does it differ from other folders? And what works better with an empty inbox? It's a curious problem. - I start TB! and there are for example 5 messages in the Inbox. - I select the Inbox and start reading/deleting mail. - The Inbox counts do not reflect the changes even though the deleted messages disappear from the list and the read messages are flagged as read in the list. The Inbox counter is still stuck at 5 unread with a total of 5 messages. It will remain that way indefinitely. The CC usually shows some hung Inbox tasks. I can also continue to browse the other mailboxes without any problems at all. - To fix the Inbox count, I have to disconnect and then reconnect to the server. At this point the Inbox count switches to what it should be. However, the Inbox again contains the messages I had deleted. However, the deleted messages are not really on the server, but in the cache. So I delete them and finally things are fine. This is highly reproducible for the Inbox, but not for other mailboxes. The way to avoid this happening is to avoid browsing the Inbox soon after starting TB!. It would seem that TB! gets distracted with the other tasks it's doing soon after startup, i.e., going through the other mailboxes, doing mailbox counts and message flags updating. So with all these 'workarounds'/avoiding or steering clear of behaviours may be creating an impression of tranquility. However, it's artificial in that I really shouldn't have to be avoiding features. This list is impressive. But the more impressive thing is that I do the same when using TB!... I left out the fact that I don't use virtual folders or plug-ins that could cause inexplicable problems. Things are already too delicate to add more to the mix. I suspect that most others who have TB! working in a meaningful way are making concessions as well. However, on the one hand, we are using TB!. However, on the other hand, we're not really *using* it to its full potential. We avoid buggy behaviour and hence we don't report it, though it's there. For example, I had forgotten about the server side Outbox issue until Gleason reported his problems with it.. However, with all that, I still somewhat prefer what it's doing now to Mulberry. I'm getting hooked again on the templates and MicroEd so I may be getting swooned into tolerating some 'gyrations' to get things working Ok. :) So you're a really tolerative person, aren't you? ;-) Hmmm. Not really. Despite working this way with TB!, I do still marginally prefer working with it than Mulberry. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- I'm an influential person, gravitationally speaking. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP: Move mails to folder
On Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 9:30:17 AM [GMT -0500], Raymund Tump wrote: I still trying to move my mails from the server folder to a local one. I long since gave up on that method. I export the messages to Unix file and then import them to the local folder. When doing the export, you'll have to be patient. There's no feedback on the progress of the export operation. So you think it's not happening or that it's hung in the process of doing it. However, it's usually underway and eventually the save dialog appears. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- What if there were no hypothetical situations? Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP: Move mails to folder
On Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 12:31:30 PM [GMT -0500], Raymund Tump wrote: Well, no wonder it takes so long. It needs to download all messages to localhost before exporting. It has to do the same to copy to a local folder, so it should take about the same time. However, the export tends to go through and you're more likely to wait while watching a counter. While waiting without feedback, each second is like 2 seconds. :) -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- This is Borg. ESC is futile CTRL is inevitable Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Editor Toolbar will not go back where I put it
On Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 4:40:07 PM [GMT -0500], Miguel Urech wrote: It probably does. But I don't wish to go through another cycle of having to delete the file and reconfigure all my shortcuts etc. Just rename it for a quick test. You're right. It's tbuser.def It's proving to be quite an easily corrupted file. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Never trust a woman who tells her real age. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Editor Toolbar will not go back where I put it
On Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 4:40:07 PM [GMT -0500], Miguel Urech wrote: Just rename it for a quick test. After some reshuffling around, I managed to make it stick where I want it. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- In mathematics or physics, simplifying can be complicated. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP don'ts to get things working better
On Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 8:37:19 PM [GMT -0500], Dwight A Corrin wrote: Why this has to do with the filtering topic is that I have tried using TB! filters and they only filter at the inbox, and only when one opens the inbox. Therefore, if one creates filters to move mail at home, that mail doesn't get moved at the office or on the road. ... and you're referring to IMAP here? Or am I misunderstanding? Though IMAP allows you to manage the same mail from multiple locations, if your filter with the client, then you'll need to duplicate all filters across all your clients to maintain filtering while you're managing new mail with the various clients. The more elegant solution is server side filtering. One set of filters and that's it. Am I doing something wrong or am I right that the only way to filter all the mail for more than one location is to do it on the server. Yes. I must say I'd sure rather make my filters in TB! than the clunky HTML interface at fastmail. FastMail supports Seive scripting. It's a special filtering script. Instead of using the filter creation interface, you can create your own seive script. This is the URL the details the scripting language: http://www.cyrusoft.com/sieve/ Mulberry supports the ability to create filters using a GUI type interface and then generating a script from it. I then copy/paste the script in the FastMail script editing field. Works well. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Some minds should be cultivated, others plowed under... Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP don'ts to get things working better
On Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 8:38:33 PM [GMT -0500], Dwight A Corrin wrote: do you ever get to negative numbers, such as -7? No. I've managed to get to a -3. :) I see this when I'm browsing and marking messages read when the message count is reasserting itself. Usually, the counter goes to 1 and then goes back to what it should be. If I mark a message read before it reverts to the correct number, it will then show -1. If I mark another read, then it goes to -2 etc. Really weird. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Sense is not cognition but sensation. (Douglas Robinson) Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP don'ts to get things working better
On Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 2:10:09 PM [GMT -0500], Kevin Amazon wrote: - I no longer use the ticker. I may revisit this since I haven't tried it in a long time. I use it. It works fine Really? I just tried it and have to assume that you use it only as an indicator that new messages have arrived, but not as a means for reading all the new messages grouped together in the ticker virtual folder. I just tried the ticker virtual folder. Things go well until new messages are dynamically added. I had 6 unread messages. I replied to a list message. A copy of my reply was returned to me and added to the list which changed dramatically. Suddenly there were a lot more messages in the list. A lot of TBBETA messages. It's as if the entire TBBETA message list was added to the ticker virtual folder list. Bizarre! Does this sort of behaviour happen for POP users as well? -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Never test for an error you don't know how to handle. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Editor Toolbar will not go back where I put it
Hi all, Some time ago, I removed my editor toolbar from view to see how I'd get on. Now that I've discovered the minimalist glyph set for TB!, I've been using it with 16x16 sizes. I rather like the spartan look of them and the way they take well to a small size. I re-enabled the editor toolbar and it appeared *beside* the main menu toolbar. I adjusted the toolbar's position to its rightful place underneath the main menu toolbar. However, each time I restart the editor, the main toolbar is again beside the main menu! It looks like the editor isn't remembering any settings except the window size. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- LOTUS - Let Only The Users Suffer Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.5.36
On Friday, July 01, 2005 at 6:16:27 AM [GMT -0500], Maxim Masiutin wrote: 3.5.36 is available at www.ritlabs.com/en/tbbeta/ Installed here and seems to be running fine so far. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Even a hawk is an eagle among crows. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Vili's Mails not threaded
On Friday, July 01, 2005, at 07:43 AM, MAU wrote: like Mercury 32 for example? Great piece of software, isn't it? For freeware ... indeed it is. I preferred MDaemon though. Don't get me wrong, it's nicely modular and *fast*, but it lacked features I needed. But it's very good at what it's able to do and is very stable. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.34 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Should I weed the lawn or say it's a garden? Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Editor Toolbar will not go back where I put it
On Friday, July 01, 2005, at 09:17 AM, Vili wrote: Please send me or to us some SMALL size screenshot (I am always confused if TBUDL or TBBETa is the one with attach possibilities), because I dont quite understand what you are saying. Pictures are more informative. You may use my private email address if attach is not alowed here. When I restored the toolbar it was like 'toolbar1.png'. I adjusted the position for it to look like 'toolbar2.png'. However, the new position will not stick. Also, check your HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\RIT\The Bat!\Editor Toolbars key settings in the registry, check if they are changed after you readjust the toolbar's position. Ok. I'll check that out, both at home and here at work. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.34 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Proofread carefully to see if you any words out. toolbar1.png Description: PNG image toolbar2.png Description: PNG image Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[3]: Editor Toolbar will not go back where I put it
On Friday, July 01, 2005, at 09:28 AM, Allie Martin wrote: Ok. I'll check that out, both at home and here at work. I'm not able to reproduce the problem here at work. Steps taken to attempt reproducing: - I removed the editors main toolbar (standard). - I exited TB! and restarted. - I restarted the editor to see the standard toolbar not there. - I re-enable the standard toolbar and it appears below the main menu bar. - I exit and restart the editor. The positions remain the same. However, this is what happened with my home installation: - I removed the standard toolbar. - I used TB! for a while, i.e., about a week. - I then re-enabled the standard toolbar. - It appears to the right of, and not below the main menu bar. - I change the position so that it's below the main menu bar. - On exiting and restarting the editor, the standard toolbar is again beside the main menu bar. It's as if it's stuck in that position. Argh! -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Courage atrophies from lack of use. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Vili's Mails not threaded
On Friday, July 01, 2005 at 6:47:25 PM [GMT -0500], Miguel Urech wrote: but it lacked features I needed. For example? This is off-topic, but alas, you're not on TBOT so... :( -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- God I want patience, and I WANT IT NOW! Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Editor Toolbar will not go back where I put it
On Friday, July 01, 2005 at 4:24:28 PM [GMT -0500], Miguel Urech wrote: I'd say your tbuser.def is not being updated. As a test, can you rename it and try again? I'm home now, still unable to get the toolbar to stay below the menubar between editor restarts. I then decided to move the standard toolbar to the left side of the editor window and that position is remembered between editor restarts. Go figure. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- A living example of Artificial Intelligence. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Friday, July 01, 2005 at 5:06:24 PM [GMT -0500], Gleason Pace wrote: Might be, but the way it looks to me is that if I take a while considering what I am saying it will send dups. It was pretty bad when I had the setting to save a draft every 2 minutes turned on. Somebody got 36 copies of the same message. It sounds to me like you're using a server side Outbox and this doesn't always work out well. You need to switch to using a local Outbox. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Evolution is a harsh mistress. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Friday, July 01, 2005 at 5:41:21 PM [GMT -0500], Miguel Urech wrote: Export the message, edit it with a text editor and re-import. Then delete the original. This will not work for an IMAP user since imported messages are imported to the local cache and not to the actual mailbox. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- If it works, tear it apart and find out why! Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another reason for the ability to edit incoming mail
On Saturday, July 02, 2005 at 12:30:13 AM [GMT -0500], Gleason Pace wrote: Sounds like a useful suggestion. I see in the imap account properties where I can specify an outbox, but all the choices are on the server. What am I missing? Just disable the option entirely by unticking the box to the left for the Outbox. Hit Ok and you'll now be using the local Outbox. I've been using a local Outbox for a long time because of the problems you sited. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.36 System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name -=-=- Minds are like parachutes, they only work when open. Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Upgrading (Was: Re: How Do I Repair My IMAP database?)
On Thursday, June 30, 2005 at 1:36:58 AM [GMT -0500], Keith Russell wrote: Okay, so I think I have my problem fixed. What is the latest stable, safe version I should install to start testing again? I see some worrisome posts about the two latest versions I can't think of a build that doesn't have worrisome posts associated with it. Just download the latest beta from the beta page and try it. IMAP fixes have been frequent these last three or so builds. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.33 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- Useless Invention: Solar powered flashlight. Current beta is 3.5.33 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: The Bat! 3.5.34 is now available
On Thursday, June 30, 2005, at 11:46 AM, Chris Wilson wrote: So can we just delete props.dll altogether? Thanks. I just did and things are fine here. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.34 System Specs: http://www.landscreek.net/sysspecs.htm =-=-= ...For exercise, men can walk. Women talk. Current beta is 3.5.34 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: The Bat! 3.5.34 is now available
On Thursday, June 30, 2005, at 11:57 AM, Alexander S. Kunz wrote: Just wait an hour or so for the early adopters to see if it wrecks havoc... then install it, and then delete the props.dll. Coward! ;) -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.34 System Specs: http://www.aimlink.name/sysspecs.htm =-=-= ...Fat person: Nutritional Overachiever Current beta is 3.5.34 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: The Bat! 3.5.34 is now available
On Thursday, June 30, 2005, at 03:37 PM, Alexander S. Kunz wrote: See what Maxim posted only 26 minutes later? Ner Ner Ner-Ner Ner! :) That's what makes it exciting. :) -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.34 System Specs: http://www.aimlink.name/sysspecs.htm =-=-= ...Oxymoron: Vacant Dwelling. Current beta is 3.5.35 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: The Bat! 3.5.34 is now available
On Thursday, June 30, 2005, at 12:25 PM, Gary wrote: I must have been drunk :rofl: It was short lived.. Hit hook line and sinker by the IMAP twilight syndrome I see. ;) Anyway, it seems that you'll be OK before not too long. The progress has been steady. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.34 System Specs: http://www.aimlink.name/sysspecs.htm =-=-= ...I'm not young enough to know everything. Current beta is 3.5.35 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: The Bat! 3.5.34 is now available
On Thursday, June 30, 2005, at 12:09 PM, Vilius Šumskas wrote: Mush better. However still seeing very old very anoying bug This one is ancient to the point where I see it as a resident glitch, here to stay indefinitely. It's not adversely affecting usability so I've come to tolerate its presence. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.34 System Specs: http://www.aimlink.name/sysspecs.htm =-=-= ...Fer Sell Cheep: 1 Bran New Spel Chekker. Nevur Usd. Current beta is 3.5.35 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: The Bat! 3.5.34 is now available
On Thursday, June 30, 2005, at 05:25 PM, Vilius Šumskas wrote: Sometimes on slow link... I applaud your being able to use TB! over a link slow enough to make this glitch create problems. I usually have so many other problems that I need to move to Mulberry. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.34 System Specs: http://www.aimlink.name/sysspecs.htm =-=-= ...As they say in Beirut, Shiite happens. Current beta is 3.5.35 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.5.34 is now available
On Thursday, June 30, 2005 at 5:50:19 PM [GMT -0500], Vilius Šumskas wrote: Well, I turned off all the nice features (thread watch, smileys, html, rogues, ssl). I use smileys. However, this will not affect IMAP performance. I use SSL which requires more bandwidth. However, when I can't use TB! for want of bandwidth, I am still in a glitch with plain IMAP. Also I'm using server side filters so I turned them in TB too. I do server side filtering as well. Virtual folders, chat, OTFE and maintenance are not my style too. I use none of those as well. Oh, antivirus and antispam protection is also done by server. And woula, I can use IMAP :) Same here with regards to plugins and antispam. I use none locally. I'm just lucky that I have good server. I use FastMail. The other day at work, my bandwidth was quite low and I had to switch to using Mulberry until the connection speed improved. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.35 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- A man needs a good memory after he has lied. Current beta is 3.5.35 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: How Do I Repair My IMAP database?
On Wednesday, June 29, 2005 at 5:30:33 AM [GMT -0500], Alto Speckhardt wrote: Again, this must ly in the eye of the beholder. I'm running v3.0.1.33 on a production machine and v3.5.current on a test environment. _Every_ version after v3.0.1.33 I've tried is worse on IMAP than this one. But are you a FastMail user like myself, Manuel and Keith? If Keith hadn't said he was a FastMail user, I'd not have recommended an upgrade so much. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.33 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- I used to be schizophrenic, but we're all right now. Current beta is 3.5.33 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
IMAP - Access Violation
Hi all, I was just reading my messages and had a message body loaded. I just sat reading it and this AV appeared: Access violation at address 004046CE in module 'thebat.exe'. Read of address 046291EC. I just hit OK and have been working since without needing a restart. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.33 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- Should I weed the lawn or say it's a garden? Current beta is 3.5.33 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: How Do I Repair My IMAP database?
On Wednesday, June 29, 2005 at 1:17:48 AM [GMT -0500], Manuel Breitfeld wrote: An error occurred while reading the message base ...\Fastmail (IMAP)\55DBCDFF.TBB. Do you want to repair the message base now? This error message is a bit silly, perhaps we need to discuss these messages in IMAP accounts in general with the developers. Everything is on the server and when there is something corrupt in the message base, than TB! should just fetch the needed informations from the server. 9Val, Maxim - thinking of implementing this feature or is it silly? I agree. It's sort of misleading to the user, unless the user is savvy. A message like this would be: 'An error occurred while reading the cached message base for the mailbox 'mailbox name'. To attempt a repair, press cancel and after disconnecting from the server, use the repair option in the folder maintenance. To delete the cached base, then press the 'delete cache' button. After the cache is deleted, TB! will fetch the whole message information from the server and everything should be back to normal. It's the TBB file so that's the file that contains message bodies. The message list index seems ok. So it will be cached copies of the retrieved message bodies that would be lost. Nevertheless, please *do* thinking about to update to the newest version. IMAP has made big efforts since the version you're using and you probably would be sad having not updated earlier. I agree with this. I'm a FastMail user too and find these latter versions useful with this IMAP service. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.33 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- As I said before, I never repeat myself. Current beta is 3.5.33 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP: Long Pause when loading first message in large mailbox
On Wednesday, June 29, 2005 at 6:22:08 AM [GMT -0500], Tony Boom wrote: I'm rapidly getting upset now, how do you get your messages to load? As I had explained in another message unlike Mulberry.. TB! needs to update and propagate caches of the entire message list for each mailbox. If you haven't used TB! in a while, and your mailboxes are large, this could take a while to happen. Additionally, I have none of my mailboxes set to synchronize. I do most filtering server side. Otherwise, I just go about my business reading mail. I do nothing special. No gyrations, either at home or at work. This is just my personal experience with it at this time. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.33 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- Oxymoron: Simple Technology. Current beta is 3.5.33 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[3]: IMAP: Long Pause when loading first message in large mailbox
On Tuesday, June 28, 2005, at 06:37 AM, Alto Speckhardt wrote: How about a debug window that shows the content being written to the debug log when enabled? Interested parties could oversee exactly what's going on, others don't need to open this window and aren't distracted. H. IMAP debug logging is very heavy. You currently can enable this by creating a file called protocol.ini in your IMAP account folder. In the file put: [IMAP] Logging=1 log=path and filename you wish to save the logging to You should now have some debug logging to look at. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.31 System Specs: http://www.landscreek.net/sysspecs.htm =-=-= ...One man's constant is another man's variable. - Perlis Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Status bar giving wrong connection type
On Monday, June 27, 2005 at 1:30:48 AM [GMT -0500], Manuel Breitfeld wrote: Are you sure that status bar indication is for connection type? I'm nearly sure this area shows Plain or OTFE, so indicates the OTFE use. Ooops!!! Forget my little disturbance of the peace here. now back under his small rock -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat!™ v3.5.0.31 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- On a scale of 1 to 10, 4 is about 7. Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: IMAP: Long Pause when loading first message in large mailbox
On Monday, June 27, 2005, at 09:05 AM, 9Val wrote: AM I also question the efficiency of the flag updating. It makes having AM large IMAP mailbox prohibitive when it really shouldn't be. I'm hoping AM that this can be optimised somehow. Just finished some optimizations, they will be available very soon Excellent. I'll be happy to test drive that enhancement. :) I'm now back to TB! almost full-time, so you have my testing time all the way now. -- -= Allie M.=- Using TB! v3.5.30 System Specs: http://www.landscreek.net/sysspecs.htm =-=-= ...How to Catch Worms by Earl E. Bird Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Attachment bar not remembering position in the editor
On Sunday, June 26, 2005 at 9:02:44 AM [GMT -0500], Thomas Fernandez wrote: It already has the status Confirmed, so I refrained from adding another bugnote. Ok. Thanks anyway. :) -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat!™ v3.5.0.31 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- DEFINE: De ting you get for breaking de law. Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.5.0.31 is now available
On Tuesday, June 08, 1937 at 6:22:07 AM [GMT -0500], Tony Boom wrote: So if that's happening to you with just *one* message, imagine how I feel when I delete dozens of them from half a dozen different folders? It is happening to me with ALL my folders very regularly, which is why I don't (can't) use The Bat. I understand. You've confirmed and reinforced my main concerns about The Bat. Yup. I know. :) -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat!™ v3.5.0.31 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- On a scale of 1 to 10, 4 is about 7. Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: OT Couth Mary [Re: 3.5.30 MSI]
On Sunday, June 26, 2005 at 1:00:17 PM [GMT -0500], Avi Yashar wrote: It's not good enough to include the line please don't feel singled out in a moderator message when in fact the moderator is clearly singling someone out. IMO ... enough already. Are we here to make trouble??? -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat!™ v3.5.0.31 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- Mediocrity requires aloofness to preserve it's dignity Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.5.0.31 is now available
On Friday, June 24, 2005 at 10:51:28 AM [GMT -0500], 9val wrote: [-] IMAP : progress bar index out of range on purge/compress [-] IMAP : possibility to purge I just tried purging. However, it works only when the messages are simply marked for deletion and not when they're moved to trash. If the purged messages are set to be 'moved to trash', they're in fact, just copied to trash and not deleted from the mailbox. The same applies if the messages are moved to another mailbox. If the purged messages are deleted without moving to trash, then purging works as it should. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat!™ v3.5.0.31 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- 1200 bps used to seem so fast Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Status bar giving wrong connection type
Hi all, My main account is using IMAP over SSL. And yet the status bar says 'Plain' over towards the right. This little buglet is just for Tony. :) -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.0.31 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- Vuja De - The Feeling You've Never Been Here Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
IMAP: Long Pause when loading first message in large mailbox
Hi all, I just re-discovered how to enable verbose logging for an account. I enabled it for my IMAP account to see what is causing the delay when I first select a mailbox containing new messages and try to load the body of one of the unread messages. Usually TB! sits there apparently inactive for a while before the message body finally loads. The larger the mailbox, the more noticeable the delay. The slower the connection, the longer the delay as well. On checking the logs, I see that TB! rechecks the flag status for all messages in the mailbox. So if there are 4000 message, the flags for all those messages seem to be rechecked and updated as needed. This happens for a mailbox every time I select the mailbox after new messages have been added. I don't know about everyone else and opinions on this would be nice. Having no feedback during this sort of activity is not nice, especially when the user is in the dark about what's happening. TB! does have a progress bar that comes up when message bodies are being loaded or when attachments are being retrieved. Wouldn't it be good if a progress bar was activated to show progress with respect to message flag status checking for the mailbox being browsed. If the user sees this underway, he/she will now understand why there's a delay to the message body of the selected message being loaded. I also question the efficiency of the flag updating. It makes having large IMAP mailbox prohibitive when it really shouldn't be. I'm hoping that this can be optimised somehow. Does the flag status of all messages in the mailbox have to be checked each time? -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.0.31 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- NEWS! Police begin campaign to run down jaywalkers Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[6]: The Bat! 3.5.0.31 is now available
On Saturday, June 25, 2005 at 4:17:34 AM [GMT -0500], Tony Boom wrote: Could that be the key to it's efficiency? No. ThunderBird worked and it had no such lack of multi-threading. I'm not a programmer, I don't know how these things are done, I can only tell it the way I see it. All I know is Mulberry handles email the way I think email should be handled, it does exactly what I expect it to, TB doesn't. Your the one who told me, if I want to see how IMAP works properly then try Mulberry. You could try ThunderBird too. It does exactly what you tell it to do. It's just that it can't do much. :) However, delete all you want and it does just that for you right away, without any hour glass episodes where you're not allowed to do anything else. TB! has the same foundation of multi-threading. It just needs to execute the command correctly and without error. Take for example. I just opened my fastmail account. I'm having an annoying time with my Inbox since it's the place where I do most deleting. I have ONE message there. ONE! I hit delete. It disappears from the list. However, there's still 1 unread message. As I'm writing this, it's been about 5 minutes since I marked that message for deletion. I still have 1 unread message in the Inbox which when I select has no messages. I then do a disconnect and reconnect. I know now that this is what I need to do. Upon reconnecting, the Inbox message count goes to zero and the message I deleted appears in the message list again. I delete, the 'deleted' message and finally I'm rid of the message. If this was happening with other folders with any regularity, I'd not be using TB! now. The reason it's not happening with other folders is because I rarely delete messages from other folders. The Inbox is where I see the unfiltered messages and therefore tend to delete a lot of them. This has been happening quite routinely to me with that Inbox. This has nothing to do with TB! needing to do what it's doing before moving on to another task. It did do something. It's just what it did led to buggy behaviour. The Bat used to the standard I compared all other clients to, Mulberry is now the IMAP client that has become the standard II compare other IMAP clients too... Maybe I've been spoiled by it? Not at all. It's the standard alright and I believe it will continue to be for a long time to come. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat!™ v3.5.0.31 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- Oxymoron: Sure bet. Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: A little roadmap
On Saturday, June 25, 2005 at 2:02:14 AM [GMT -0500], Krzysztof Kudlacik wrote: In pronciples you are all right, but in facts. For example: customisable interface is not connected with POP/IMAP/Exchange, but it took over 6 months of RITs time. Interestingly, it's this customisable interface that is saving TB! right now for me. Without it, I'd be using Mulberry. Having the 'DisConnect from server' and 'Connect to server' commands as buttons on my toolbar makes me deal with IMAP hiccups a lot easier. I'd be frustrated and gone to Mulberry without those buttons made possible by customising possibilities. Same for navigation. Navigation is now a joy since I've managed to make it work the way I've always wanted it to. Another reason why I'm now still using TB!. So I can't speak ill at all of the new customisable interface. I think it a VERY worthwhile effort which has greatly increased usability of TB!. Usability is a very, very important aspect of any application. With regards to the order in which the improvements are carried out? I have my personal opinion on it, but I don't know if that really matters. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat!™ v3.5.0.31 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- Oxymoron: Standard deviation. Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[3]: The Bat! 3.5.0.31 CC Still in Background
On Saturday, June 25, 2005 at 5:31:36 AM [GMT -0500], Paul Van Noord wrote: If the provided [Alt]+[F2] has worked for years, why does one see the need to change it? To something other than Alt-F2? Furthermore, setting a custom hotkey to the same as a provided hotkey is illogical. Other programs I use do not make available for reuse the provided (hard-coded) hotkeys for customization. Seems like Rit should do this also. It should be legal provided that you're still not using that hardcoded shortcut. BTW, in customisable apps like TB! now is, there are no hard-coded shortcuts. There are only default shortcuts. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat!™ v3.5.0.31 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- STATUS QUO is Latin for the mess we're in. Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
IMAP: Message deletion issue
Hi all, I mentioned this problem in an exchange with Tony. However, just to make sure it's seen by the developers, I'll dedicate a message to it. I'm a FastMail user and TB! has been working quite well except for this commonly occurring. In fact, whenever, I login to my account and read new Inbox mail that's unsorted I brace myself for the hassle of this deletion routine. Let's site one of my recent experiences as an example. - I have a single unread message in the Inbox. It's some update announcement, so I hit delete. - The message disappears from the list, so the Inbox appears empty, though the Inbox count says there's one message and that the message is unread. - I move on to other folders and browse just fine, and yet the Inbox remains there as having 1 unread message. - I try compressing the Inbox. Nothing happens. Still 1 unread message. - I give up and then do what I always need to in order to correct the problem. - I disconnect from the server and then immediately reconnect. This is why I have both commands as buttons on my toolbar. - The Inbox count is now zero. However, the Inbox now contains the message I just deleted. So it would seem that the message was deleted from the server but remains in the cache? - I delete the apparently already deleted message from the list and it's OK now, until I need to delete again. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat! v3.5.0.31 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- A good pun is its own reword. Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Very Important Question
On Saturday, June 25, 2005 at 9:54:33 AM [GMT -0500], Alexander S. Kunz wrote: Uh... the Windows editor *removes* the LFs (that autoformat inserted) before sending? Is that WOD? In the editor prefs wrapping at column 75 is set, and it appears on-screen, but is gone when I send... ?!? puzzled That's correct. Most e-mail editors do the very same. It's just that the client reformats/reflows the text on sending. TB!'s behaviour on sending is based on MicroEd, which doesn't need its text to be reformatted on sending. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat!™ v3.5.0.31 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- You have to be sharp to be on the cutting edge. Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[5]: Very Important Question
On Saturday, June 25, 2005 at 10:05:31 AM [GMT -0500], Alto Speckhardt wrote: The others are the majority, that fact alone says enough. Windows is the standard. It's the standard against with other OS's should be judged. Afterall, it's what the majority uses so it's architecture and approach must be right and any lone deviation should be considered wrong and not in the interest of the user. Which way is the user supposed to get learn - the usual one that he can use at home, at work, at school, from Europe to the Far East on every editor he happens to stumble on; or the special one that works on one editor, and this one editor only? Come on. Back at you with 'come on'. :) MicroEd doesn't deviate that markedly from regular use that a passing user will not be able to use it. My passing user days were long ago, though memorable. I didn't have to take to manual to edit mails or catch on to how the editor behaves. There are basic features and extended features. The basic features are such like that when you press the key q on your keyboard the letter will appear somewhere in your text. These are the basic requirements, and LF-handling is one of them since we had to bury EDLIN. That's what MicroEd does if you disable auto-formatting. If you disable it, re-editing flowed text will require re-wrapping with an Alt-L. This is how I use MicroEd. You could have a look at an editor called WinEdt. http://www.winedt.com/ It behaves just as MicroEd does with regards to line feeds. It's interesting how they speak of this line feeds issue. However, I do believe that you can disable the behaviour and get the behaviour that is more commonly seen. The extended features are targeted at a special purpose of the particular editor. They make the difference between Visual Studio IDE and MS Word. But these features build upon the basic ones, they do not modify them. If they still do, then they shouldn't do so without good cause and reason, and the user should always be able to switch back to the method he has grown accustomed with over the years. Unlike most other editors, MicroEd formats as you type. It doesn't soft/format. Type a few lines of text in MicroEd and copy/paste in notepad with wrapping disabled. You'll see the lines are wrapped. Try the same with any other editor and you'll see one long line of text. This is why TB! doesn't wrap on sending. MicroEd really formats on the fly. This is a fundamental difference and is the reason for the difference in treatment of the LF. If you separate two paragraphs by a single line feed, how is the formatting engine to tell that you wish to start a new paragraph vs simply requiring reformatting? WinEdt deals with this by the user being able to configure special characters that if used to start a new line, signals the editor not to simply reflow into the above line. The advantage: WYSIWYG. WYSIWYG formatting done on the fly *as you type*. You're not getting a representation of what it will look like when the other parties program soft-formats or when your program formats on sending. Formatting on sending opens its own can of worms and this is why I was happy that TB! incorporates an editor that doesn't rely on this. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat!™ v3.5.0.31 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- Some people have one of those days. I have one of those lives. Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Very Important Question
On Saturday, June 25, 2005 at 10:33:00 AM [GMT -0500], Alexander S. Kunz wrote: Really? I thought if I set TB to wrap at column 75, it would do that on sending, and not only on-screen, and remove the formatting when sending. It means I compose a message on-screen and it will not look the way I intended it. [Outlook does it the other way around: you type along, and upon sending plain text is wrapped at the specified column, which seems more logical to me, especially with plain text messages] It's just that the client reformats/reflows the text on sending. TB!'s behaviour on sending is based on MicroEd, which doesn't need its text to be reformatted on sending. But TB removes linefeeds from messages created with the Windows editor. Look at the source of the message I sent with Windows editor. It does not contain LFs but only very long lines. Thats not what I had on screen. If some Outlook user is going to quote that... ouch... Those aren't hard line feeds. To see what I'm saying, try the following: - open notepad and disable word wrapping. - type a few lines of text in MicroEd and copy/paste it to Notepad. - type a few lines of text in the Windows Editor and copy/paste to Notepad. See the difference? Though you see wrapping underway, it's actually not there and will not be there on sending either. MicroEd's ability to truly format on the fly while typing is special and is the reason behind the wrapping behaviour without auto-format enabled. You have to reflow text that was initial flowed. Auto-format was introduced to reflow re-edited text on the fly, but it will not know that you're defining a new paragraph unless you use two line feeds. -- -= Allie Martin =- The Bat!™ v3.5.0.31 System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- Oxymoron: Rear Admiral. Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
