Re: Re[2]: NML?

2005-06-21 Thread Tony Boom

Hello Tony.

Just a test, nothing I send seems to be getting to TBBETA when sent from 
the Mac?




--
Tony.

M


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Re: Re[2]: NML?

2005-06-21 Thread Tony Boom



--On Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:57 pm +0100 Tony Boom 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Just a test, nothing I send seems to be getting to TBBETA when sent from
the Mac?


Oooops, a spelling mistake in the From: address. See if this one works?

--
Tony

iMac


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Re: NML?

2005-06-21 Thread Stuart Hemming
 Hello Tony.

 Just a test, nothing I send seems to be getting to TBBETA when sent from
 the Mac?
You know the answer to that then, don't you?

-- 
Stuart Hemming

Using The Bat! v3.5.30 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.1, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70,
MyMacros 1.11a.

Now that food has replaced sex in my life, I can't even get into my
own pants.


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Re: NML?

2005-06-21 Thread Tony Boom



--On Tuesday, June 21, 2005 3:10 pm +0100 Stuart Hemming 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



You know the answer to that then, don't you?


Yes, learn how to spell my name correctly :)

--
Tony

iMac


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Re: NML?

2005-06-21 Thread Stuart Hemming
 Oooops, a spelling mistake in the From: address. See if this one works?
It does.

-- 
Stuart Hemming

Using The Bat! v3.5.30 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.1, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70,
MyMacros 1.11a.

The one thing that unites all human beings, regardless of age, gender,
religion, economic status or ethnic background, is that, deep down
inside, we ALL believe that we are above average drivers.


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Re: Re[2]: NML?

2005-06-21 Thread Allie
Hi Allie,
   On 20/06/2005 04:24 PM -0500, you wrote:

 Things have definitely changed in this area since I'm not seeing
 messages loading just fine when message counts, flagging, moving
 operations have otherwise frozen. Earlier, I again, just experienced
 my TBBETA folder new message count being at 6 with no new messages on
 hitting N to go to the next unread message. I exited the folder and
 went back to it. Same thing. I could load other messages just fine,
 including message bodies not before retrieved. I disconnected and
 reconnected to the server. Only then did TB! undo the problem and
 reasserted itself. I actually had 3 unread messages and they had
 already been read even though they were somehow marked unread again.

The University network seems busy so the Internet feed is slower than
usual. I had to switch back to using Mulberry with that. I have to wait
for too long for a message body to load.

The message body requests are very much stuck in the queue and have to
wait their turn. If the connection is slow, this can be agony.

-- 
Cheers,
   -= Allie M. =-

Everyone hates me because I'm paranoid



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NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Tony Boom
Thought I'd better try 3.5.30.

First five messages I clicked on? See attached. 


-- 
Tony.

M

nml.png
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Re: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Allie Martin
On Monday, June 20, 2005 at 3:21:55 AM [GMT -0500], Tony Boom wrote:

 Thought I'd better try 3.5.30.

 First five messages I clicked on? See attached. 

Using it with a FastMail account here and it's working pretty well.

-- 
  -= Allie Martin =-
The Bat!™ v3.5.30
System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm
  -=-=-
Honeymoon: time between I do and you'd better



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Re: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Tony Boom
Hello Allie.

--On 20 June 2005 05:41 -0500 you wrote about Re: NML?:


 Using it with a FastMail account here

Yes, me too.

 and it's working pretty well.

Not here, couldn't load a message at all, gave up after the first 5 and
went back to a client that loaded them instantly. In fact I had over 500
unread messages when I came home and the Berry didn't even flicker.

-- 
Tony.

M

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Re[2]: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Allie Martin
On Monday, June 20, 2005, at 08:59 AM, Tony Boom wrote:

 Not here, couldn't load a message at all, gave up after the first 5 and
 went back to a client that loaded them instantly. In fact I had over 500
 unread messages when I came home and the Berry didn't even flicker.

The gremlins just got me again, but I managed to get past it. Things
are smooth again.

This is what happened:

- I opened my Inbox and their were 15 messages there. I moved 2 of
them and nothing happened. I saw a lot of things queued up in the CC
so I just left them there.

I read the rest of messages in the Inbox. Still, the messages were not
moved.

So I went to the CC and watched it. Nothing happening despite there
being a lot of tasks in the queue.

I selected the task at the top and hit the 'Delete Task' button. All
tasks disappeared and the connection was dropped. That response was
more consistent with an 'Abort All' command.

Anyway, when I reconnected, the messages were moved and some of the
messages remarked unread. I then went on and nothing strange has
happened since.

So TB! IMAP is temperamental but useable now.

-- 
-= Allie M.=-
Using TB! v3.5.30
System Specs: http://www.landscreek.net/sysspecs.htm
=-=-=
...A day for firm decisions! Or is it?
 



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Re: Re[2]: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Gary

Hi Allie,

--On Monday, June 20, 2005 1:49 PM -0500 you wrote in part:

Step 1


- I opened my Inbox and their were 15 messages there. I moved 2 of
them and nothing happened. 


Step 2


I selected the task at the top and hit the 'Delete Task' button. All
tasks disappeared and the connection was dropped.


Step 3


Anyway, when I reconnected, the messages were moved and some of the
messages remarked unread. I then went on and nothing strange has
happened since.


Is this necessary in a client? If you ask it to move mail, it should be 
done without the unnecessary hassles. In your case, a 3 step process.


1 I have to jump through more hoops just to read my mail for the first 
time... as message bodies will not load. Oh, I can read a few at first, 
then maybe the second one in a different thread, on down, I can't read... 
then several emails in different threads, I cannot read. I then have to 
click on another mail folder, then back again, and hope I can read the mail 
that would not load, that is after I find it again. Or, I can compress the 
INBOX, and hope I can read the mail, again, after I find it/they in the 
thread, in several 100 other emails. Or, I can log off the account, log 
back on, and see if I can read mail, or those emails that would not load 
for me previously, if I can find those threads, the first one or two in 
that thread, then right in the middle of it, I can't continue reading the 
thread, but must go through the gyrations above *again and again*, when the 
thread which had my interest, has been lost.


It is as if I start reading an article, have the next page missing, try to 
find it, read part of it, start over, then lose another page, or a page 
from a different article... TB! makes reading IMAP email not pleasurable, 
and is very time consuming.


In short, this is totally ridiculous to go through these processes in order 
to read email. If I can't read my mail, the client does not perform its 
basic function, and I can't read a thread cleanly.



So TB! IMAP is temperamental but useable now.


:) It is absolutely unusable to me. I will not go through these gyrations 
in order to read email.


--
Gary



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Re: Re[2]: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Tony Boom
Hello Gary.

--On 20 June 2005 14:20 -0500 you wrote about Re: Re[2]: NML?:


 :) It is absolutely unusable to me.

Glad you said that too, people don't believe me. 

 I will not go through these gyrations
 in order to read email.

Me neither, have you tried Mulberry? :)

-- 
Tony.

M

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Re: Re[2]: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Gary

Hi Tony,

--On Monday, June 20, 2005 8:52 PM +0100 you wrote in part:


:) It is absolutely unusable to me.


Glad you said that too, people don't believe me.



I will not go through these gyrations in order to read email.



Me neither, have you tried Mulberry? :)


:rofl:  (really hard)... on occasion...

--
Gary



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Re: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Mary Bull
Hello Tony!

On Monday, June 20, 2005, 2:52 PM, you wrote:

 :) It is absolutely unusable to me.

 Glad you said that too, people don't believe me.

Yes, we do.

 I will not go through these gyrations
 in order to read email.

 Me neither, have you tried Mulberry? :)

From TB!'s handy View Source function, this from the headers of Gary's
message to which you are replying:

X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.0 (Win32)  :)

-- 
Best regards,
Mary
The Bat 3.5.30 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2







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Re: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Dwight A Corrin
On Monday, June 20, 2005, 3:02:10 PM, Mary Bull wrote:

 Hello Tony!

 On Monday, June 20, 2005, 2:52 PM, you wrote:

 :) It is absolutely unusable to me.

 Glad you said that too, people don't believe me.

 Yes, we do.

 I will not go through these gyrations
 in order to read email.

 Me neither, have you tried Mulberry? :)

this is just so different from my own experience since starting with
IMAP at about 3.5.25 or so. I feel like my Mulberry license was a
waste of money because I wait just as long reading there, don't want to
embark on the learning curve, and joined their mailing list (at Tony's
urging) just in time for some very rude flaming. And some posters who
are as critical of Mulberry development as some posters are critical
of RITLABS.



-- 
Dwight A. Corrin
928 S Broadway
Wichita KS 67211
316.303.1411  fax 316.265.7568
dcorrin at fastmail.fm
Using The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP version 5,1



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Re[4]: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Allie Martin
On Monday, June 20, 2005 at 2:20:33 PM [GMT -0500], Gary wrote:

 :) It is absolutely unusable to me. I will not go through these gyrations
 in order to read email.

For me, the 'gyrations' have now become occasional. I can now use TB! at
work. I've used it without problems 2 days in a row. A first, and I
think using FastMail IMAP has something to do with it.

I think this may have to do with my mailboxes not being particularly
large  YET!. :)

-- 
  -= Allie Martin =-
The Bat!™ v3.5.30
System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm
  -=-=-
Power corrupts; absolute power is even more fun.



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Re: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Manuel Breitfeld
Hi Allie,

On Monday, 20 June 2005 at 10:23 PM you ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) worte:

 I think this may have to do with my mailboxes not being particularly
 large  YET!. :)

This is the point. As long as the amount of messages per folder isn't higher 
than - let's say - 200, one has no problems.
But as soon as it gets larger, TB!  is updating and updating its counters and 
bases and seems to forget to fetch the mail one selects.
9Val, you did the right step in reserving one connection for message 
downloading. But this conncetion has to get *highest* priority. When its 
triggered, it has to be sure, that all other copying/updating processes 
switch to low priority.

Tony, did you try the things with a small amount of mails? (Yes, I know that 
sounds silly. IMAP should *keep* all mail. But give it a try. ;))

-- 
Manuel, http://www.manuel-breitfeld.de


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Re: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Peter Fjelsten
Allie,

On 20-06-2005 22:23, you [AM] wrote in
mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
AM I think this may have to do with my mailboxes not being particularly
AM large  YET!. :)

Define large, please

-- 
greeting Best regards /greeting  
author Peter Fjelsten /author 
thebat version 3.5.21 Pro /thebat versionextras MyGate, AVG /extras
env. ~11 POP3, 2 IMAP (MailMax 5.5)  1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 175K msgs. 
/env.
os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 /os  





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Re: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Mary Bull
Hello Dwight!

On Monday, June 20, 2005, 3:22 PM, you wrote:

Gary  I will not go through these gyrations in order to read email.

Tony  Me neither, have you tried Mulberry? :)

 this is just so different from my own experience since starting with
 IMAP at about 3.5.25 or so. I feel like my Mulberry license was a
 waste of money because I wait just as long reading there, don't want to
 embark on the learning curve, and joined their mailing list (at Tony's
 urging) just in time for some very rude flaming. And some posters who
 are as critical of Mulberry development as some posters are critical
 of RITLABS.

I think it truly must depend on people's mix of: OS, other
applications, and configurations of the e-mail client. Which does say
to me that RitLabs has a mammoth job on its hands to reach all its
goals with IMAP, and that it will still be some time before everything
is completely sorted.

Additionally, all praise to the development team for how much they
already have accomplished and for their patience with the many reports
and general complaints that appear on the TBBETA list. :)

-- 
Best regards,
Mary
The Bat 3.5.30 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2







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Re: Re[4]: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Gary

Hi Allie,

--On Monday, June 20, 2005 3:23 PM -0500 you wrote in part:


:) It is absolutely unusable to me. I will not go through these gyrations
in order to read email.


For me, the 'gyrations' have now become occasional. I can now use TB! at
work. I've used it without problems 2 days in a row. A first, and I
think using FastMail IMAP has something to do with it.


This is truly amazing, as witness to the problems you and I have had. I 
think I will wait until farther into the next beta cycle to see what 
happens. I just can't spend so much time, perhaps double, triple or more, 
reading email, or have the frustration that I have with it now. Every 
morning, I fire up TB!, first unread message body (usually within the first 
5 emails)... I shut it down and use something that works every time.



I think this may have to do with my mailboxes not being particularly
large  YET!. :)


LOL... probably  Also, what seems to trigger this (at least for me) is 
the addition of any new mail arriving while reading existing new email in 
the INBOX.


--
Gary



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Re: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Dwight A Corrin
On Monday, June 20, 2005, 3:39:10 PM, Manuel Breitfeld wrote:

 9Val, you did the right step in reserving one connection for message
 downloading.

got a question. just starting out with IMAP, I haven't fiddled with
finetuning yet. the only things I have ticked are to compress when
changing folders, to refresh every 5 minutes, and to use precise
counters.

I was wondering about multiple connections. I know there were some
discussions about this a while back, but I was ignoring IMAP mail then
since I didn't have it. Any suggestions?


-- 
Dwight A. Corrin
928 S Broadway
Wichita KS 67211
316.303.1411  fax 316.265.7568
dcorrin at fastmail.fm
Using The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP version 5,1



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Re: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Manuel Breitfeld
Hello Dwight,

On Monday, 20 June 2005 at 10:52 PM you ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

 I was wondering about multiple connections. I know there were some
 discussions about this a while back, but I was ignoring IMAP mail then
 since I didn't have it. Any suggestions?

Just look in the connection center. ;) I assume you choose 4 conncetions and 
reserve one for message downloading.
3 connections update your folder counts in the trigger interval. The reserved 
connection is triggered when you select a message.

-- 
Manuel, http://www.manuel-breitfeld.de


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Re[2]: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Allie Martin
On Monday, June 20, 2005 at 3:43:44 PM [GMT -0500], Mary Bull wrote:

 I think it truly must depend on people's mix of: OS, other
 applications, and configurations of the e-mail client. Which does say
 to me that RitLabs has a mammoth job on its hands to reach all its
 goals with IMAP, and that it will still be some time before everything
 is completely sorted.

Gary and I have discussed IMAP so much that I'm very familiar with his
usage.

He tends to read most of his mail in the Inbox and then filter them to
their various target folders/mailboxes afterwards. As a result of this,
his Inbox is quite busy while he's reading mail. TB! doesn't behave well
when you're browsing a mailbox/folder to which new messages are being
frequently added. Message bodies often fail to load when a request is
sent while the message list is being updated as new messages reach the
Inbox.

In contrast, I read my mail after they're filtered to their various
destination mailboxes. This makes it less likely that I'll be browsing a
mailbox that is frequently being updated with new messages. My
experience is therefore different.

I don't know how Tony works.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that system configuration has little to do with
the problems we have. It's just TB! that isn't robust enough to handle
the various ways in which we read mail. I'm having a better time now
since I changed IMAP server and haven't transferred my old mail to the
new account. As a result, my mailboxes are pretty small in size and
since then, I'm doing a lot better with TB! now. I don't know how long
this will last. My TBOT mailbox is my largest mailbox since I
transferred all its messages to the new account for testing. This
mailbox contains 3000 messages. However, this was among the smaller
of the message tallies of my larger mailboxes with my old account.

Mulberry handles these heavy use situations far better. That's all. TB!
needs to do this as well.

-- 
  -= Allie Martin =-
The Bat!™ v3.5.30
System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm
  -=-=-
Itsdifficulttobeverycreativewithonlyfiftysevencharacters!



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Re[2]: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Allie Martin
On Monday, June 20, 2005 at 3:39:10 PM [GMT -0500], Manuel Breitfeld
wrote:

 This is the point. As long as the amount of messages per folder isn't
 higher than - let's say - 200, one has no problems. But as soon as it
 gets larger, TB! is updating and updating its counters and bases and
 seems to forget to fetch the mail one selects. 9Val, you did the
 right step in reserving one connection for message downloading. But
 this conncetion has to get *highest* priority. When its triggered, it
 has to be sure, that all other copying/updating processes switch to
 low priority.

Things have definitely changed in this area since I'm not seeing
messages loading just fine when message counts, flagging, moving
operations have otherwise frozen. Earlier, I again, just experienced my
TBBETA folder new message count being at 6 with no new messages on
hitting N to go to the next unread message. I exited the folder and went
back to it. Same thing. I could load other messages just fine, including
message bodies not before retrieved. I disconnected and reconnected to
the server. Only then did TB! undo the problem and reasserted itself. I
actually had 3 unread messages and they had already been read even
though they were somehow marked unread again.

-- 
  -= Allie Martin =-
The Bat!™ v3.5.30
System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm
  -=-=-
Procrastination Day Has Been Postponed!



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Re: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Mary Bull
Hello Allie!

On Monday, June 20, 2005, 4:20 PM, you wrote:

 Mulberry handles these heavy use situations far better. That's all.
 TB! needs to do this as well.

Thanks for explaining this so clearly. :)

-- 
Best regards,
Mary
The Bat 3.5.30 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2







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Re[2]: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Allie Martin
On Monday, June 20, 2005 at 3:43:03 PM [GMT -0500], Peter Fjelsten
wrote:

 Define large, please

I don't know if there's a threshold like a light switch that makes TB!
suddenly start misbehaving.

One things for sure, it will work a lot better with folders containing
less that say 1000 messages than folders containing thousands of
messages.

Additionally, it has to be many folders with thousands of messages,
rather than just one. I had an account with 2 folders. One contained
16000 messages and the other 8000. TB! seemed fine with that. TB! will
not be bogged down enough by one or two folders with several thousand
messages. However, if you have say 10 folders with at least 4000 messages
each, you may start seeing problems crop up.

Again these are arbitrary examples. I don't have a specific threshold
and doubt that every users threshold is the same. This likely depends on
the server being used, as well as the connection speeds. Secured vs
plain connections will also make a difference. SSL connections are more
bandwidth intensive.

-- 
  -= Allie Martin =-
The Bat!™ v3.5.30
System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm
  -=-=-
Going out of my mind, back in 5 minutes.



 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
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Re[6]: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Allie Martin
On Monday, June 20, 2005 at 3:46:43 PM [GMT -0500], Gary wrote:

 LOL... probably  Also, what seems to trigger this (at least for me) is
 the addition of any new mail arriving while reading existing new email in
 the INBOX.

Right. I think this is the critical difference between our usage
pattern, as I mentioned in a reply to M. Bull.

-- 
  -= Allie Martin =-
The Bat!™ v3.5.30
System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm
  -=-=-
Oxymoron: Rap Music.



 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
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Re: Re[6]: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Gary

Hi Allie,

--On Monday, June 20, 2005 4:30 PM -0500 you wrote in part:


Right. I think this is the critical difference between our usage
pattern, as I mentioned in a reply to M. Bull.


I think you put it perfectly (as usual)  :)

--
Gary

Have you had your Haldol today?





Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Peter Fjelsten
Allie,

On 20-06-2005 23:29, you [AM] wrote in
mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
AM Again these are arbitrary examples. I don't have a specific
AM threshold and doubt that every users threshold is the same.

Don't worry - it was just to get a ballpark figure... :-)

I only have 4000 messages in my most active (Exchange) account.

BTW, I also filter, then read.

-- 
greeting Best regards /greeting  
author Peter Fjelsten /author 
thebat version 3.5.21 Pro /thebat versionextras MyGate, AVG /extras
env. ~11 POP3, 2 IMAP (MailMax 5.5)  1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 175K msgs. 
/env.
os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 /os  





 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: NML?

2005-06-20 Thread Allie Martin
On Monday, June 20, 2005 at 4:43:18 PM [GMT -0500], Peter Fjelsten
wrote:

 Don't worry - it was just to get a ballpark figure... :-)

Ok.

 I only have 4000 messages in my most active (Exchange) account.

That should be easy for TB! to handle.

I currently have 7500 messages in my account.

I previously had 28,000 or so. :)

 BTW, I also filter, then read.

That will certainly help.

I think it was 9Val who encouraged that we keep our mailbox message
counts down and do some archiving. So there are quota limits on our
mailboxes for performance reasons. :) I didn't take to happily to the
advice since I had my own server installed so that I could ignore
quotas. My FastMail account has a 2GB limit and I intend to use it
so

-- 
  -= Allie Martin =-
The Bat!™ v3.5.30
System Specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm
  -=-=-
STATUS QUO is Latin for the mess we're in.



 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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