Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Hello Clive, A reminder of what Clive Taylor typed on: 04 November 2004 at 08:37:45 GMT +0100 CT I can give you an invite if you, and anyone else, wants one, (I have CT four left to give away). First come, first served! PM to my address. I'd love to have a g mail account to play with if you have enough please. -- Best regards,Tony. _ The Bat! v3.0.2.4 Rush 04/11/2004 at 08:26 UTC 2ØØ4 - AWB Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Clive Taylor wrote: I'm concerned about running into bandwidth problems, at least with Fastmail. You shouldn't be. A full account with FastMail gives you 600Mb of storage while an enhanced a/c gives 2Gb. I was referring to bandwidth, not storage space. Even an enhanced membership allows just 1 GB of bandwidth for month. This is a lot if you're receiving messages, but I wouldn't want to use most of it up just transferring in messages from MailSnare. If space is an issue why not use a Gmail a/c (1Gb storage) and forward old mail there? I can give you an invite if you, and anyone else, wants one, (I have four left to give away). Thanks. I do have a Gmail account and have copies of all my messages there. However, I don't want to depend on it too much, though, in case they decide at some point to start charging, and there's no POP3 or IMAP access. Also, it will eventually fill up, too. In addition, I frequently get bounced messages that were undeliverable because Gmail doesn't like certain types of attachments. And some formats are not viewable in Gmail. -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
By the way, I also have Gmail accounts to give away. :-) -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Allie Martin [AM], wrote: Following Allie's lead I have played around with the various settings and come up with optimum settings for my server. Perhaps we should start sharing this information, get confirmations etc. so Ritlabs can have an IMAP wizard based on server/connection type? Part of the problem with TB! IMAP support is the many combinations of options. AM Yes. This is an idea. I'm going to start a new thread for this purpose... AM Apart from the settings, I find that I have to be mindful. Clicking from AM folder to folder in frustration, wondering why nothing will happening, AM racks up the queue of tasks and makes matters worse. Killing TB! in the AM middle of a sync operation may also lead to TB! discarding the partially AM built cache and starting over again. However, I can't really blame users AM when there's no reasonable progress indicator as to what's happening. AM There's not much visual difference between a hung queue and one that's AM slowly underway. Testing the current build has been helpful and has made me review my IMAP settings. I am now confident the pauses etc. some of us see are simply the time it takes TB! to reconnect to the server. Of course, this is based on my observations with my setup and server arrangements... My IMAP server is on a home network and TB! was configured to disconnect from the server when idle for 5 seconds. I only retrieve message headers. With this setup TB! would frequently pause for 2-3 seconds while I was reading mail/switching to next message. Clicking from folder to folder in frustration (as you do...) :-) doesn't seem to help matters. However, if I deliberately disconnect from the server (Shift+Ctrl+F2) and then attempt to read a message the same behaviour and delay is observed. This is also confirmed in the status bar: IMAP - Session finished. I now keep the connection alive at all times and don't have the problem at all and would be interested to know if others keep a permanent connection or automatically disconnect after a period of no activity. I now believe my setup is very close to that used by Mozilla Thunderbird, which stays connected and only downloads message headers by default. What TB! could really do with is an indicator to show whether it is connected or disconnected... just like Thunderbird (bottom left corner of main window.) Or an IMAP toolbar... hint hint! ;-) -- .\\artin | ICQ 15893823 The business of everybody is the business of nobody. LORD MCCAULAY ___ IMAP Client: The Bat! Version 3.0.2.4 Rush | Horde IMP WebMail IMAPS Server: Dovecot | OS: Windows XP Professional (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
On Thursday, November 04, 2004 at 4:42:26 PM [GMT -0500], Martin Webster wrote: My IMAP server is on a home network and TB! was configured to disconnect from the server when idle for 5 seconds. I only retrieve message headers. I've never really used this setting except for at work where my connection is slower. With this setup TB! would frequently pause for 2-3 seconds while I was reading mail/switching to next message. I still have the pauses and suspect it occurs when there are new messages during a IMAP folder count refresh. Clicking from folder to folder in frustration (as you do...) :-) doesn't seem to help matters. However, if I deliberately disconnect from the server (Shift+Ctrl+F2) and then attempt to read a message the same behaviour and delay is observed. This is also confirmed in the status bar: IMAP - Session finished. I now keep the connection alive at all times and don't have the problem at all and would be interested to know if others keep a permanent connection or automatically disconnect after a period of no activity. Yeah. Done this and still the pauses occur. I often bring up the CC to see what's happening and it always seems to be stuck at updating the folders counts and headers when new messages are there. -- -= Allie =- . Oxymoron: Removable sticker. __ Using The Bat! v3.0.2.4 Rush for IMAP mail IMAP Server: MDaemon Pro | OS: Windows XP Pro (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
On Wednesday, November 03, 2004 at 11:11:39 PM [GMT -0500], Keith Russell wrote: That's your server side outbox doing that. So is the solution to just uncheck Outbox: under Mail Management/IMAP Options? Yes. That's the setting. Tell me how it goes with DUMeter. -- -= Allie =- . Faith is good, but scepticism is better. - Giuseppe Verdi __ Using The Bat! v3.0.2.4 Rush for IMAP mail IMAP Server: MDaemon Pro | OS: Windows XP Pro (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
On Wednesday, November 03, 2004 at 1:19:28 AM [GMT -0500], Keith Russell wrote: I tried to send this using TB! several hours ago. In trying to determine why it hadn't showed up on the list, I found that the same thing happened as a couple of days ago: 30 copies of the message in the Outbox, all created one minute apart! So I'm back to using Thunderbird That's your server side outbox doing that. The messages are long but I hope 9Val is reading to some extent to see that server-side Outboxes still create problems for some people. I've tried it and see how quirky it works. Sounds like you need to use those other clients then. :-) You keep saying that. I don't know whether you're being facetious, whether you're just tired of listening to me complain and trying to get rid of me ;-), or whether you're making a serious suggestion! I'm not being facetious or anything. You had said you switched to IMAP so that you could compose messages across locations. This requires working Draft folder support which TB! doesn't have. If you wish to use TB! for this, you need to put your Outbox server side and this is causing a lot of problems for you where you can't send messages. That's a showstopper. You're already using ThunderBird while testing and hoping TB! will one day work for you so, you're already doing as I am suggesting. :) The developers say that implementing a draft folder would be a very involved task. Really? I missed that discussion. I wonder why that would be the case. It has to do with the design. It would involve major code changes for Draft folder functionality to be offered. AFAIK, they don't have any foreseeable plan for this. :-) It's really not something I do a lot, either. I would just like to have it available. What I do do, though, is start writing a long message, get interrupted, and come back and finish with another client. Of course, if TB! were reliable enough to use all the time, I could stop doing that I see. :-) Not at all. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. I've actually done as much complaining on the Mulberry list as I've done here, due to all the time wasted on Waiting for server, which once it starts, displays for ever active folder before you can do anything else. Your connection to the IMAP server doesn't seem to be as good as you may be thinking. Mulberry is my benchmark in a sense. If you're waiting a long time for Mulberry, then your connection is likely to be slow. Is your IMAP server one of your ISP's servers? It sounds that way, doesn't it? But get this...I actually just upgraded my DSL connection from 640 Kbps to 1.5 Mbps! That's what makes this whole thing especially frustrating. That's what your connection is capable of, but that doesn't mean that's the connection you're getting from the IMAP server. One way to check would be to install a tool like DUMeter, that can show your connection speed as you're working with the IMAP server. At home I'm quite content with TB! since my IMAP server is on my home LAN. Messages are routinely loaded nigh unto instantaneously and the pauses are there but not ridiculously long. They're more a noted annoyance than being really distressing. I connect to my server from work. The connection is about 256KBps as determined by my home DSL connection speed. I don't always get the maximum throughput. In fact, maximum throughput is more an exception than a rule. I average about half that speed. TB! at work behaves about the same as you describe. I really doubt that you have a 1MBit/sec connection to your IMAP server and are using it all. Yes, I need to learn to stop doing this. I get really frustrated and just can't help myself. :-( The CC should be your friend. If there's an inordinately long pause, check the CC to see what's happening. If there are tasks in the queue including the one you're waiting on (after a while you can understand the various items in the queue) then clicking on another folder or message will not help. Wait a little, an IMAP 'little' that is. ;) If there's still nothing happening, delete the task at the top of the queue and see how that goes. Unfortunately, at times, the connection to the server stalls. This happens with ThunderBird but less often. There will likely be a lag for you. When you hit delete, the request is sent. When the server gets it and deletes the message, it's correspondingly done locally. Yes, but again, I expect it to take a few seconds, and not a few minutes. The delete request is a request like any other. If selecting a message for reading is taking long for you, then a delete request may take long as well. Hit delete once and move on. But you keep saying not to click around! If I move on and click somewhere else, am I not just building up the task queue again? In the case of delete, yes. I mean, delete the message by hitting delete. That's a tiny request to the server. You can move to another task like continuing to read messages. The
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Some of my problems might be on MailSnare's end, or might have to do with the route between here and there, considering that other users don't seem to have the number of problems that I have with both Mulberry and TB! Keith, My two IMAP servers are FastMail and MailSnare, and there's no doubt that Mailsnare is the slower of the two here using TB but that might be because its message base is bigger than FastMail's. However, I don't notice the difference between the two accessing them via Mulberry. I don't know where that leaves you though. -- Regards Clive Taylor Using TB 3.0.2.4 Rush Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: [the_bat] Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Wednesday, November 3, 2004, 10:49:47 AM, (Internet Time - @742) you wrote: Hello Clive, CT Keith, My two IMAP servers are FastMail and MailSnare, and there's no CT doubt that Mailsnare is the slower of the two here using TB but that CT might be because its message base is bigger than FastMail's. CT However, I don't notice the difference between the two accessing them CT via Mulberry. I don't know where that leaves you though. Clive, I too use Fastmail as my IMAP account. I have very few problems with the account and I am trying to learn as much as I can about the IMAP protocol. I too do not have many messages on the Fastmail account, roughly 1200 messages, and have only been using it for a few weeks. But as I said, I am trying to learn from you, Keith, Martin, Alley and all the rest that are posting information on the use of IMAP. Thanks... -- Best regards, Michael mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! Version 3.0.2.4 Rush On Windows XP SP2 Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Clive Taylor wrote: Keith, My two IMAP servers are FastMail and MailSnare, and there's no doubt that Mailsnare is the slower of the two here using TB but that might be because its message base is bigger than FastMail's. However, I don't notice the difference between the two accessing them via Mulberry. I don't know where that leaves you though. My MailSnare account expires in about three weeks, and I am probably going to switch to Fastmail, Runbox, or Fusemail, in the hope that performance will improve. Unfortunately, I don't know of any good way to test these alternatives with the volume of mail that I have on the MailSnare server. I haven't decided how I'm going to move my mail once I do switch, either. I'm concerned about running into bandwidth problems, at least with Fastmail. -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
I'm concerned about running into bandwidth problems, at least with Fastmail. You shouldn't be. A full account with FastMail gives you 600Mb of storage while an enhanced a/c gives 2Gb. If space is an issue why not use a Gmail a/c (1Gb storage) and forward old mail there? I can give you an invite if you, and anyone else, wants one, (I have four left to give away). First come, first served! PM to my address. -- Regards Clive Taylor Using TB 3.0.2.4 Rush Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
On Monday, November 01, 2004 at 10:27:00 PM [GMT -0500], Keith Russell wrote: Actually, under Mail management in Account Properties, I have Outbox set to INBOX.Drafts, which of course is on the server. Of course, I also have Sent mail set to INBOX.Sent Items, and it does nothing. TB! doesn't even display my Sent Items folder. It does put my messages there, but if I want to look at one of my previously sent messages, I have to use another client. I have a suspicion that if you create a folder on the server called Sent and use that instead, you'll be Ok. TB! may have a problem reading that folder. Of course, you'd have to set the other clients to use this folder and they shouldn't have a problem. This is another instance of TB! not supporting one of the major features of IMAP. If I use The Bat!, I have to give up several important IMAP functions I'm used to using in Thunderbird and Mulberry. I want to be able to start writing a message, and if I don't have time to finish it before leaving the house, save it to the Drafts folder and finish it somewhere else. That's why I switched to IMAP! Sounds like you need to use those other clients then. The developers say that implementing a draft folder would be a very involved task. I don't use ThunderBird because it doesn't have a lot of the features I wish to use. Not that I think it's trash. I think it's a great IMAP client. I can understand your divided feeling though. All those nice TB! features to give up??? Please N! ;) My reason for using IMAP is that it allows me to read my mail from multiple locations and not be worried about the mailbases at all locations being up to date. The other beauty is that copies of sent messages from all locations are accessible from all locations and message attributes/flags are the same at all locations. I'm not really in the habit of partially writing mail across locations. Probably because my preferred client makes that kindof like jumping hoops. :) Yes, and of course, this is the natural thing to do. You don't want to have to sit and wait for every single task to complete. I bought TB! to make my email sessions more effective, not to slow me down. But, of course. Who didn't? On the other hand, I think Mulberry was designed for a Cyrus server, which I'm using, and I still have those constant Waiting dialogs. I thought Mulberry worked fine for you? However, it apparently doesn't. Some of my problems might be on MailSnare's end, or might have to do with the route between here and there, considering that other users don't seem to have the number of problems that I have with both Mulberry and TB! Sounds like you're using a relatively slow connection. Your wait times in your description below sounds like what happens to me at work. Someone posted how to do this from the menu; I use the message's context menu, which lists a Reload command. It doesn't always help, though, as I'll describe later. No it will not always work. It will work, only if the message really needs reloading. If the original load request is in the queue, you've simply added another request. 1. I clicked on my TBBETA folder, but, although the TBBETA message list was displaying, the status bar said I was still in INBOX. 2. I cleared the TBBETA cache. The status bar now said, IMAP - Server closed connection. I hope I don't have to clear a folders cache at work, especially if many messages are in it. If I clear the cache, that means it will have to be rebuilt before I can read any messages in that IMAP folder. Rebuilding involves downloading header information for all messages in that folder so that a message list can be constructed. Mulberry excels in this area in that you can have it retrieve information for only X number of the more recent messages. This allows you to download less so that you can start reading faster. Clear caches for large folders only if you have to. 3. I don't remember exactly what I did at this point (just clicking around), Don't click around. Selecting a folder initiates a number count and header sync. This quickly clogs the queue and you have to wait and wait and wait. Unlike ThunderBird, TB! will not spawn multiple connections to handle the many requests in parallel streams. but the TB! window went gray and I wasn't able to do anything, including minimizing the program or showing the desktop. (A word of explanation here: I had Power Menu running and had set the main TB! window to Always on top, so it's possible there was a TB! dialog or the Control Center with running tasks underneath; but I couldn't get to it.) TB! seems bogged down trying to get all those requests sorted out over what sounds like a pretty slow connection. It sounds like what I'm using at work. 4. The only option I had at this point was to end the TB! process with Task Manager. When you do this, you often interrupt folder counts which may need complete redoing when you restart. So TB! will be
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Hello, Allie. I tried to send this using TB! several hours ago. In trying to determine why it hadn't showed up on the list, I found that the same thing happened as a couple of days ago: 30 copies of the message in the Outbox, all created one minute apart! So I'm back to using Thunderbird On Tuesday, November 2, 2004, 5:30:45 AM, you wrote: On Monday, November 01, 2004 at 10:27:00 PM [GMT -0500], Keith Russell wrote: ... I have a suspicion that if you create a folder on the server called Sent and use that instead, you'll be Ok. TB! may have a problem reading that folder. Of course, you'd have to set the other clients to use this folder and they shouldn't have a problem. Thanks. I'll give that a try. This is another instance of TB! not supporting one of the major features of IMAP. If I use The Bat!, I have to give up several important IMAP functions I'm used to using in Thunderbird and Mulberry. I want to be able to start writing a message, and if I don't have time to finish it before leaving the house, save it to the Drafts folder and finish it somewhere else. That's why I switched to IMAP! Sounds like you need to use those other clients then. :-) You keep saying that. I don't know whether you're being facetious, whether you're just tired of listening to me complain and trying to get rid of me ;-), or whether you're making a serious suggestion! The developers say that implementing a draft folder would be a very involved task. Really? I missed that discussion. I wonder why that would be the case. I don't use ThunderBird because it doesn't have a lot of the features I wish to use. Not that I think it's trash. I think it's a great IMAP client. I agree on both points. I can understand your divided feeling though. All those nice TB! features to give up??? Please N! ;) Exactly. In the end, I just couldn't resist buying the new version! My reason for using IMAP is that it allows me to read my mail from multiple locations and not be worried about the mailbases at all locations being up to date. The other beauty is that copies of sent messages from all locations are accessible from all locations and message attributes/flags are the same at all locations. Absolutely. I'm not really in the habit of partially writing mail across locations. Probably because my preferred client makes that kindof like jumping hoops. :) :-) It's really not something I do a lot, either. I would just like to have it available. What I do do, though, is start writing a long message, get interrupted, and come back and finish with another client. Of course, if TB! were reliable enough to use all the time, I could stop doing that On the other hand, I think Mulberry was designed for a Cyrus server, which I'm using, and I still have those constant Waiting dialogs. I thought Mulberry worked fine for you? However, it apparently doesn't. :-) Not at all. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. I've actually done as much complaining on the Mulberry list as I've done here, due to all the time wasted on Waiting for server, which once it starts, displays for ever active folder before you can do anything else. I haven't had any other problems, but that one shortcoming has meant that I use it about the same way I do TB!--that is, mostly for testing and learning. Some of my problems might be on MailSnare's end, or might have to do with the route between here and there, considering that other users don't seem to have the number of problems that I have with both Mulberry and TB! Sounds like you're using a relatively slow connection. Your wait times in your description below sounds like what happens to me at work. It sounds that way, doesn't it? But get this...I actually just upgraded my DSL connection from 640 Kbps to 1.5 Mbps! That's what makes this whole thing especially frustrating. Someone posted how to do this from the menu; I use the message's context menu, which lists a Reload command. It doesn't always help, though, as I'll describe later. No it will not always work. It will work, only if the message really needs reloading. If the original load request is in the queue, you've simply added another request. Good point. ... 3. I don't remember exactly what I did at this point (just clicking around), Don't click around. Selecting a folder initiates a number count and header sync. This quickly clogs the queue and you have to wait and wait and wait. Unlike ThunderBird, TB! will not spawn multiple connections to handle the many requests in parallel streams. Yes, I need to learn to stop doing this. I get really frustrated and just can't help myself. :-( ... 6. I selected Synchronize now, clicked on a message, and got No message loaded. I waited, and the message body finally displayed 30-60 seconds later. 'No message loaded' will show since it's getting the message list and will show messages only when that's done. Sure, but when you expect it to take a
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Hi TBBeta, Worse yet, I sometimes click on a message and get the wrong body! I just displayed five unread messages in a folder. Of the five, I was only able to read one. The other three all linked to the wrong message. Now that's really odd. I don't really have an explanation for such behaviour. I have: This is normally connected to moving messages from one folder to another. If you delete the cache everything is fine again. I move message from my Inbox to a common folder and if I then copy/move a message from another folder to my Inbox it doesn't show up at all or it is linked to the message I moved to the common folder. -- I'm already gone, Raymund The Bat! 3.0.2.4 Rush on Windows XP Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Hi Keith, (What is that, anyway?) As a result, this reply will be sent using Mulberry. Looking at the messy quoting I'm glad staying with TB! :-) Of course. I meant to mention that, but forgot. I understand that performance will not be as good with IMAP as with POP3. I can't see why it should be as fast as POP3 as long as you only have the Inbox. (Well, that may not be a likely environment...) If you have many folders asking for new messages has to be done for every folder, but that is your own decision. Did you try deleting your local cache for that folder/mailbox? No, because I couldn't remember how. Can you remind me? It's in the folder properties. -- I'm already gone, Raymund The Bat! 3.0.2.4 Rush on Windows XP Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Keith Russell [KR], wrote: KR Now, however, I can confirm others' reports of random long pauses KR when downloading message bodies. Like Clive, this has KR always been a problem for me. As I reported previously, I see KR similar, but even longer pauses (sometimes) when moving between KR folders. (TB! is set to not synchronize.) Yes, I see these too... usually a single IMAP task has stalled. Once removed manually things get back to normal. KR Worse yet, I sometimes click on a message and get the wrong body! KR I just displayed five unread messages in a folder. Of the five, I KR was only able to read one. The other three all linked to the KR wrong message. I've had this too. It's most likely a damaged message base... or at least clearing the local cache did the trick for me. I now use 'Compress folders when switching to another folder' and haven't had a problem since. I still get occasional problems with the message base but I'm certain that these problems are caused by killing TB! when it freezes, e.g. 3.0.2.2. KR These problems are so pervasive that, even though I finally broke KR down and paid for the upgrade, I still use The Bat only for KR testing new releases. I always end up going back to Thunderbird KR and Mulberry. Really? NC :-) KR I have also occasionally seen the behavior Martin reported of KR random disconnects when moving between messages. I haven't KR observed tasks getting stuck, but I'll be watching for this in KR the future. Still see this with current beta... KR In addition, earlier today I had something VERY strange happen as KR I was reading a thread from one of my Yahoo groups. I was getting KR No message loaded for quite a few of the messages in the KR thread. This is something I've seen quite a bit, but it had KR always seemed to be random (and VERY frustrating). ...and this. I think it's the same as your last comment. KR However, I discovered that when I looked at the same KR thread in Mulberry and Thunderbird, the problem messages were not KR listed at all in the message list. As I looked further, I found KR that I had two copies of every message. All were sent on October KR 19th. However, one copy of each, according to the Received column KR in TB! and Mulberry, was received on the 19th and the other was KR received on the 22nd. In each case, the copy received on the 19th KR was a problem message, while the one received on the 22nd was KR normal. KR Even more strangely, in each case, the bad message is shown as KR having been created/sent exactly two hours earlier than the good KR one. KR Any ideas on this one? No... and I should have left for work by now and will read again later. :-) ...snip BTW, can you include IMAP in the subject next time? -- .\\artin | ICQ 15893823 If a man begins with certainties, he shall end in doubt; but if he will be content to begin with doubts, he shall end in certainties. FRANCIS BACON, 1561-1626 ___ IMAP Client: The Bat! Version 3.0.2.4 Rush | Horde IMP WebMail IMAPS Server: Dovecot | OS: Windows XP Professional (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
On Monday, November 01, 2004, at 02:14 AM, Clive Taylor wrote: Allie has the opposite experience, so resolving IMAP problems is probably going to be a compromise. I wouldn't say opposite. It isn't that bad. My experience is that both clients have their problems when I use them. I'm more willing to put up with TB!'s problems than Mulberry's. -- -=[ Allie ]=- ... Sleep is a poor substitute for caffeine. __ Running TB! v3.0.2.2 Rush or SquirrelMail WebMail for IMAP IMAP Server: MDaemon Pro | OS: Windows XP Pro (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
On Monday, November 01, 2004, at 02:41 AM, Keith Russell wrote: I thought I had sent this off an hour ago, and I just discovered SEVENTEEN copies in my Outbox! How did that happen?!!! Seems that you have your Outbox server side. I'd make that local, unless you depend a lot on keeping drafts available for use on your other IMAP clients. TB! is still having problems with the Outbox being used server side. I avoid doing that. Of course. I meant to mention that, but forgot. I understand that performance will not be as good with IMAP as with POP3. The point I was trying to make, though, was that I would hope that TB!'s IMAP performance would compare as favorably to other clients as does its POP3 performance. However, where Mulberry and Thunderbird seem to be little affected by the volume of my messages, it does appear that The Bat! is. For some time, my experience was that with the synchronisation options for TB! set to work like ThunderBird's sync routines, their performance is about the same. Where ThunderBird get's the better of TB! is when you're forcing it to fulfil multiple requests. For example, you select a folder to update counts and sync headers and then move to another folder to continue reading new messages. ThunderBird will spawn another connection to do both tasks, while TB! will have to do all those tasks via the same connection. Good point. I hadn't thought of server/client compatibility. This means that if I change IMAP providers, as I may do in a few weeks, I could find the situation reversed. Interesting. Yes. This may be the case, though Mulberry works well with the big server apps. Yes, but of course Mulberry's big problem is lack of multithreading Ah yes. That's incredibly annoying, especially on a medium to low speed connection. I did some experimenting tonight and found that reloading the message often displays the body. Is there a keystroke for that, so I don't have to navigate the menu every time? How do you reload the message? I didn't know that you could reload a message from the server. AFAIK, it's downloaded once and isn't downloaded again, unless you purge the folders cache, otherwise the message is loaded from the cache from then on. No, because I couldn't remember how. Can you remind me? I found a couple of messages in my Inbox folder tonight that exhibited the same behavior. Again, those with a received date corresponding to the sent date cannot be read. Copies of the same messages received on the 22nd are fine! A question? When you're frustrated waiting on TB!, what do you do? Do you continue waiting or do you exit and restart it in frustration. That sort of thing can really mess up the folder caches etc. I thought at first that this was the case, but the fact that the dates were identical for TB! and Mulberry threw me off, I guess. Both dates and times for the received columns are identical? I'm guessing that I probably used Thunderbird for three days before I got around to checking out TB! and Mulberry again on the 22nd. I must have started them up at the same time so that the received date and times would correspond. I haven't been able to find the date Thunderbird received these messages, because the Date column seems to mean the sent date, and I don't know how to add a Received column. Do you? ThunderBird doesn't support that. I assume that someone has posted this to the wish list long ago, but is there any way I can search The Bat! Wishes (or bugtracker) to find out? https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/main_page.php -- -=[ Allie ]=- ... Half the lies they tell me aren't true. --Yogi Berra __ Running TB! v3.0.2.2 Rush or SquirrelMail WebMail for IMAP IMAP Server: MDaemon Pro | OS: Windows XP Pro (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Allie Martin [AM], wrote: AM For some time, my experience was that with the synchronisation options AM for TB! set to work like ThunderBird's sync routines, their performance AM is about the same. Where ThunderBird get's the better of TB! is when AM you're forcing it to fulfil multiple requests. For example, you select a AM folder to update counts and sync headers and then move to another folder AM to continue reading new messages. ThunderBird will spawn another AM connection to do both tasks, while TB! will have to do all those tasks AM via the same connection. Following Allie's lead I have played around with the various settings and come up with optimum settings for my server. Perhaps we should start sharing this information, get confirmations etc. so Ritlabs can have an IMAP wizard based on server/connection type? Part of the problem with TB! IMAP support is the many combinations of options. ...snip I did some experimenting tonight and found that reloading the message often displays the body. Is there a keystroke for that, so I don't have to navigate the menu every time? AM How do you reload the message? I didn't know that you could reload a AM message from the server. AFAIK, it's downloaded once and isn't AM downloaded again, unless you purge the folders cache, otherwise the AM message is loaded from the cache from then on. I haven't tried this but I guess it's Message-Reload. -- .\\artin | ICQ 15893823 Adventure is the result of poor planning. COL. BLASHFORD SNELL ___ IMAP Client: The Bat! Version 3.0.2.4 Rush | Horde IMP WebMail IMAPS Server: Dovecot | OS: Windows XP Professional (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
On Monday, November 01, 2004, at 02:32 PM, Martin Webster wrote: Following Allie's lead I have played around with the various settings and come up with optimum settings for my server. Perhaps we should start sharing this information, get confirmations etc. so Ritlabs can have an IMAP wizard based on server/connection type? Part of the problem with TB! IMAP support is the many combinations of options. Yes. This is an idea. Apart from the settings, I find that I have to be mindful. Clicking from folder to folder in frustration, wondering why nothing will happening, racks up the queue of tasks and makes matters worse. Killing TB! in the middle of a sync operation may also lead to TB! discarding the partially built cache and starting over again. However, I can't really blame users when there's no reasonable progress indicator as to what's happening. There's not much visual difference between a hung queue and one that's slowly underway. I haven't tried this but I guess it's Message-Reload. I had checked and hadn't seen the option, but now that you pointed it out as being there I looked again and there it is. To answer Keith's question, though no keystroke has been assigned through the default setup, he can easily assign one via the edit shortcuts dialog (Alt-F12). -- -=[ Allie ]=- ... Worry : The interest paid on trouble before it's due __ Running TB! v3.0.2.2 Rush or SquirrelMail WebMail for IMAP IMAP Server: MDaemon Pro | OS: Windows XP Pro (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Hi, Raymund. Raymund Thomas Tump wrote: Looking at the messy quoting I'm glad staying with TB! :-) :-) Yes, that is one thing TB! does do better. Of course. I meant to mention that, but forgot. I understand that performance will not be as good with IMAP as with POP3. I can't see why it should be as fast as POP3 as long as you only have the Inbox. (Well, that may not be a likely environment...) If you have many folders asking for new messages has to be done for every folder, but that is your own decision. Well, that's the nature of IMAP: the ability to work with multiple folders on the server. The alternative is to leave everything in the inbox and sort messages with the client, but that seems to me to defeat the whole purpose of IMAP. Did you try deleting your local cache for that folder/mailbox? No, because I couldn't remember how. Can you remind me? It's in the folder properties. Oh, yes. Thanks. I keep looking for it in the folder's context menu, and of course it isn't there. Of course, Properties is listed in the context menu, but it takes an extra couple of clicks to clear the cache. It seems that just about every time someone posts an IMAP problem, the recommendation is to clear the cache, so it would be nice if it were a little more straightforward. Better yet would be if the developers could track down what's causing this frequent cache corruption. Other clients don't have that problem. Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Allie Martin wrote: On Monday, November 01, 2004, at 02:41 AM, Keith Russell wrote: I thought I had sent this off an hour ago, and I just discovered SEVENTEEN copies in my Outbox! How did that happen?!!! Seems that you have your Outbox server side. I'd make that local, unless you depend a lot on keeping drafts available for use on your other IMAP clients. TB! is still having problems with the Outbox being used server side. I avoid doing that. Actually, under Mail management in Account Properties, I have Outbox set to INBOX.Drafts, which of course is on the server. Of course, I also have Sent mail set to INBOX.Sent Items, and it does nothing. TB! doesn't even display my Sent Items folder. It does put my messages there, but if I want to look at one of my previously sent messages, I have to use another client. This is another instance of TB! not supporting one of the major features of IMAP. If I use The Bat!, I have to give up several important IMAP functions I'm used to using in Thunderbird and Mulberry. I want to be able to start writing a message, and if I don't have time to finish it before leaving the house, save it to the Drafts folder and finish it somewhere else. That's why I switched to IMAP! For some time, my experience was that with the synchronisation options for TB! set to work like ThunderBird's sync routines, their performance is about the same. Where ThunderBird get's the better of TB! is when you're forcing it to fulfil multiple requests. For example, you select a folder to update counts and sync headers and then move to another folder to continue reading new messages. ThunderBird will spawn another connection to do both tasks, while TB! will have to do all those tasks via the same connection. Yes, and of course, this is the natural thing to do. You don't want to have to sit and wait for every single task to complete. I bought TB! to make my email sessions more effective, not to slow me down. Good point. I hadn't thought of server/client compatibility. This means that if I change IMAP providers, as I may do in a few weeks, I could find the situation reversed. Interesting. Yes. This may be the case, though Mulberry works well with the big server apps. On the other hand, I think Mulberry was designed for a Cyrus server, which I'm using, and I still have those constant Waiting dialogs. Some of my problems might be on MailSnare's end, or might have to do with the route between here and there, considering that other users don't seem to have the number of problems that I have with both Mulberry and TB! On the other hand, Thunderbird just WORKS. How do you reload the message? I didn't know that you could reload a message from the server. AFAIK, it's downloaded once and isn't downloaded again, unless you purge the folders cache, otherwise the message is loaded from the cache from then on. Someone posted how to do this from the menu; I use the message's context menu, which lists a Reload command. It doesn't always help, though, as I'll describe later. A question? When you're frustrated waiting on TB!, what do you do? Do you continue waiting It depends. I'll usually wait for a minute or two, then I may pick up something to read or switch to another application to do some work. Often I'll start up another client and work with it until the frustration dies down enough to check back and see if anything's happened yet. or do you exit and restart it in frustration. That sort of thing can really mess up the folder caches etc. I don't normally do this (I generally give it lots of time), but sometimes it can't be helped. I'll give a report below of the experience I had earlier this evening, and you'll see what I mean. I thought at first that this was the case, but the fact that the dates were identical for TB! and Mulberry threw me off, I guess. Both dates and times for the received columns are identical? Yes. Interesting, isn't it? but is there any way I can search The Bat! Wishes (or bugtracker) to find out? https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/main_page.php Where is the search? Are you supposed to use the box labeled Jump? I tried that last night (and again tonight), and it seems that no matter what I enter there, I get the following: APPLICATION ERROR #1100 Issue 0 not found. Now, as promised, here's my account of what happened earlier tonight, as I tried to read unread messages in this thread and respond to them: 1. I clicked on my TBBETA folder, but, although the TBBETA message list was displaying, the status bar said I was still in INBOX. 2. I cleared the TBBETA cache. The status bar now said, IMAP - Server closed connection. 3. I don't remember exactly what I did at this point (just clicking around), but the TB! window went gray and I wasn't able to do anything, including minimizing the program or showing the desktop. (A word of explanation here: I had Power Menu running and had set the main TB! window to Always on top, so it's possible there was a
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Allie Martin wrote: On Monday, November 01, 2004, at 02:32 PM, Martin Webster wrote: Following Allie's lead I have played around with the various settings and come up with optimum settings for my server. Perhaps we should start sharing this information, get confirmations etc. so Ritlabs can have an IMAP wizard based on server/connection type? Part of the problem with TB! IMAP support is the many combinations of options. Yes. This is an idea. I also think this is an excellent idea. I've thought of asking you (Allie) to post all the settings you have chosen to make The Bat! work like Thunderbird, but this becomes a major task, due to the number of setting scattered among a variety of different menus. So I don't know how feasible the idea of sharing server-specific settings is, but it sounds good. Apart from the settings, I find that I have to be mindful. Clicking from folder to folder in frustration, wondering why nothing will happening, racks up the queue of tasks and makes matters worse. Good point. This may well be part of my problem, because I definitely do do this. Killing TB! in the middle of a sync operation may also lead to TB! discarding the partially built cache and starting over again. However, I can't really blame users when there's no reasonable progress indicator as to what's happening. There's not much visual difference between a hung queue and one that's slowly underway. You're right. The lack of a progress indicator is a big problem. As frustrating as Mulberry's long waits are, at least there's a dialog box telling you what's happening and counting the seconds, so that you know, first of all, that something is happening, second, what it is that's happening, and third, how long it's taken. To answer Keith's question, though no keystroke has been assigned through the default setup, he can easily assign one via the edit shortcuts dialog (Alt-F12). Yes, I thought of that, too. Guess I'll have to figure out how to do it. :-) -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Raymund Thomas Tump wrote: This is normally connected to moving messages from one folder to another. If you delete the cache everything is fine again. I move message from my Inbox to a common folder and if I then copy/move a message from another folder to my Inbox it doesn't show up at all or it is linked to the message I moved to the common folder. Thanks for this explanation, Raymund. The next time this happens, I'll look into whether or not this might have been the cause, and try clearing the cache to see if it helps. -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Clive Taylor wrote: Rather than echo all of what Allie has said in his reply I can confirm that (unlike Allie) I can't rely on TB for everyday, real-world IMAP use. It's just so frustrating to wait for a couple of minutes for messages to display while TB churns away. I can see my router working so it's not a matter of the prog hanging. I've now taken to closing and reopening TB at intervals and making a cup of coffee while it loads and sorts out its message base. Not good. No, it isn't, and I understand EXACTLY what you're saying. See my reply to Allie above for an extreme example. OTOH, Mulberry doesn't exhibit any of the IMAP issues here that TB does - and that's probably because it was designed primarily as an IMAP, rather than POP, client. Yes, and Thunderbird has even few issues. I experience duplicate messages, too, on a regular basis. My largest message bases are around 2,000 messages (TB groups) but I experience these hangs even on an account with just a few hundred messages. No combination of synchronisation or cache deletion really helps. And this is all VERY discouraging -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Martin Webster wrote: Keith Russell [KR], wrote: KR Now, however, I can confirm others' reports of random long pauses KR when downloading message bodies. Like Clive, this has KR always been a problem for me. As I reported previously, I see KR similar, but even longer pauses (sometimes) when moving between KR folders. (TB! is set to not synchronize.) Yes, I see these too... usually a single IMAP task has stalled. Once removed manually things get back to normal. I'm going to have to start checking Control Center on a regular basis and see if deleting tasks makes a difference for me. KR Worse yet, I sometimes click on a message and get the wrong body! KR I just displayed five unread messages in a folder. Of the five, I KR was only able to read one. The other three all linked to the KR wrong message. I've had this too. It's most likely a damaged message base... or at least clearing the local cache did the trick for me. So, as I asked in another message, why does The Bat! have so many problems with damaged message bases and/or corrupt cache, when I never see these problems with other clients? I now use 'Compress folders when switching to another folder' and haven't had a problem since. Thanks for this suggestion. I'll give this a try. KR These problems are so pervasive that, even though I finally broke KR down and paid for the upgrade, I still use The Bat only for KR testing new releases. I always end up going back to Thunderbird KR and Mulberry. Really? NC :-) NC??? KR However, I discovered that when I looked at the same KR thread in Mulberry and Thunderbird, the problem messages were not KR listed at all in the message list. As I looked further, I found KR that I had two copies of every message. All were sent on October KR 19th. However, one copy of each, according to the Received column KR in TB! and Mulberry, was received on the 19th and the other was KR received on the 22nd. In each case, the copy received on the 19th KR was a problem message, while the one received on the 22nd was KR normal. KR Even more strangely, in each case, the bad message is shown as KR having been created/sent exactly two hours earlier than the good KR one. KR Any ideas on this one? No... and I should have left for work by now and will read again later. :-) Okay. :-) Thanks for taking the time to post what you did. BTW, can you include IMAP in the subject next time? Yes, I apologize for not doing that. I wanted to provide a descriptive subject, but it was getting very long, so I decided to shorten it at the expense of the word IMAP. Probably a bad choice on my part. -- Keith Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
On Sunday, October 31, 2004 at 11:49:01 PM [GMT -0500], Keith Russell wrote: I haven't posted for a while because it seemed that no one was having the long pauses that I was experiencing with IMAP. Someone (Allie, I think) suggested that they might be due to the large number of messages I have on the server. This seemed strange to me, since, with POP3, at least, users tend to rave about The Bat's performance with large message bases. IMAP is different from POP3. With POP3, you're working with a message base stored locally. With IMAP, your message bases are stored on the server. You keep syncing them with a local cache representation that needs updating to reflect what's currently on the server. Syncing a large message base takes longer than syncing a small message base. Now, however, I can confirm others' reports of random long pauses when downloading message bodies. Like Clive, this has always been a problem for me. As I reported previously, I see similar, but even longer pauses (sometimes) when moving between folders. (TB! is set to not synchronize.) OK. Worse yet, I sometimes click on a message and get the wrong body! I just displayed five unread messages in a folder. Of the five, I was only able to read one. The other three all linked to the wrong message. Now that's really odd. I don't really have an explanation for such behaviour. These problems are so pervasive that, even though I finally broke down and paid for the upgrade, I still use The Bat only for testing new releases. I always end up going back to Thunderbird and Mulberry. I have problems with Mulberry. You're having problems with TB!. IMAP needs good client/server compatibility to work well. You may find that your client of choice depends on how well it works with your IMAP server. MDaemon, my own IMAP server is more TB! than Mulberry friendly. Lucky me. In addition, earlier today I had something VERY strange happen as I was reading a thread from one of my Yahoo groups. I was getting No message loaded for quite a few of the messages in the thread. This is something I've seen quite a bit, but it had always seemed to be random (and VERY frustrating). Quite often, the 'no message loaded' is associated with TB! being quite busy at working with its queue of tasks. You then have to wait for those tasks to complete. Unlike Mulberry and ThunderBird, TB! works via a single connection to the server. One of TB!'s future development plans is support for multiple connections to the server. However, I discovered that when I looked at the same thread in Mulberry and Thunderbird, the problem messages were not listed at all in the message list. As I looked further, I found that I had two copies of every message. All were sent on October 19th. However, one copy of each, according to the Received column in TB! and Mulberry, was received on the 19th and the other was received on the 22nd. In each case, the copy received on the 19th was a problem message, while the one received on the 22nd was normal. Did you try deleting your local cache for that folder/mailbox? As I investigated this problem, I also discovered a couple of interesting things I hadn't noticed before. First of all, I cannot find the Received date and time (in the Received column) anywhere in the message headers. Can anyone tell me where this information comes from? Since it's identical in both TB! and Mulberry, it must be in the message somewhere, but where? The received time in the TB! received column is the time the message was received by TB! and not the server. You'll therefore not see that time in the message header. I also (as an off-topic comment) noticed that Thunderbird does not display all the Received: headers in the message, but only the first and last. This strikes me as very strange, because of the importance of these headers in tracking spam. ThunderBird doesn't do a lot of things that we take for granted with TB!. I also continue to be frustrated that TB! does not allow threading on both references and subject. In my thread of six good messages, when I thread by reference, four thread properly and two do not, because they don't have reference headers. All six thread properly in both Thunderbird and Mulberry. Yes. I don't know when TB! will start threading using both subject and references. Finally, I did something, and I'm not sure what, that caused even this imperfect threading to break. Now, instead of being broken into two threads, the twelve messages (good and bad) are now displayed in seven threads! Anybody know what might have caused this? I pass on that. It's not like the messages changed, so the only explanation would be a change of the sorting. -- -= Allie =- . Daddy, what does FORMATTING DRIVE C: mean? __ Using The Bat! v3.0.2.2 Rush for IMAP mail IMAP Server: MDaemon Pro | OS: Windows XP Pro (Service Pack 2)
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Rather than echo all of what Allie has said in his reply I can confirm that (unlike Allie) I can't rely on TB for everyday, real-world IMAP use. It's just so frustrating to wait for a couple of minutes for messages to display while TB churns away. I can see my router working so it's not a matter of the prog hanging. I've now taken to closing and reopening TB at intervals and making a cup of coffee while it loads and sorts out its message base. Not good. OTOH, Mulberry doesn't exhibit any of the IMAP issues here that TB does - and that's probably because it was designed primarily as an IMAP, rather than POP, client. With TB it's the other way round of course. Allie has the opposite experience, so resolving IMAP problems is probably going to be a compromise. I experience duplicate messages, too, on a regular basis. My largest message bases are around 2,000 messages (TB groups) but I experience these hangs even on an account with just a few hundred messages. No combination of synchronisation or cache deletion really helps. -- Regards Clive Taylor Using TB 3.0.2.4 Rush Current beta is 3.0.2.4 Rush | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.0.2.4: VERY Weird Behavior Duplicate Behavior, and Threading
Hello, Allie. I thought I had sent this off an hour ago, and I just discovered SEVENTEEN copies in my Outbox! How did that happen?!!! And after trying again to post using TB!, I now have two more. :-( One has an icon in the second column; the second doesn't. (What is that, anyway?) As a result, this reply will be sent using Mulberry. On Sunday, October 31, 2004, 9:56:09 PM, you wrote: On Sunday, October 31, 2004 at 11:49:01 PM [GMT -0500], Keith Russell wrote: Someone (Allie, I think) suggested that they might be due to the large number of messages I have on the server. This seemed strange to me, since, with POP3, at least, users tend to rave about The Bat's performance with large message bases. IMAP is different from POP3. With POP3, you're working with a message base stored locally. With IMAP, your message bases are stored on the server. You keep syncing them with a local cache representation that needs updating to reflect what's currently on the server. Syncing a large message base takes longer than syncing a small message base. Of course. I meant to mention that, but forgot. I understand that performance will not be as good with IMAP as with POP3. The point I was trying to make, though, was that I would hope that TB!'s IMAP performance would compare as favorably to other clients as does its POP3 performance. However, where Mulberry and Thunderbird seem to be little affected by the volume of my messages, it does appear that The Bat! is. Worse yet, I sometimes click on a message and get the wrong body! I just displayed five unread messages in a folder. Of the five, I was only able to read one. The other three all linked to the wrong message. Now that's really odd. I don't really have an explanation for such behaviour. So obviously, you haven't seen this. Has anyone else? I have problems with Mulberry. You're having problems with TB!. IMAP needs good client/server compatibility to work well. You may find that your client of choice depends on how well it works with your IMAP server. MDaemon, my own IMAP server is more TB! than Mulberry friendly. Lucky me. Good point. I hadn't thought of server/client compatibility. This means that if I change IMAP providers, as I may do in a few weeks, I could find the situation reversed. Interesting. In addition, earlier today I had something VERY strange happen as I was reading a thread from one of my Yahoo groups. I was getting No message loaded for quite a few of the messages in the thread. This is something I've seen quite a bit, but it had always seemed to be random (and VERY frustrating). Quite often, the 'no message loaded' is associated with TB! being quite busy at working with its queue of tasks. You then have to wait for those tasks to complete. Unlike Mulberry and ThunderBird, TB! works via a single connection to the server. One of TB!'s future development plans is support for multiple connections to the server. Yes, but of course Mulberry's big problem is lack of multithreading I did some experimenting tonight and found that reloading the message often displays the body. Is there a keystroke for that, so I don't have to navigate the menu every time? However, I discovered that when I looked at the same thread in Mulberry and Thunderbird, the problem messages were not listed at all in the message list. As I looked further, I found that I had two copies of every message. All were sent on October 19th. However, one copy of each, according to the Received column in TB! and Mulberry, was received on the 19th and the other was received on the 22nd. In each case, the copy received on the 19th was a problem message, while the one received on the 22nd was normal. Did you try deleting your local cache for that folder/mailbox? No, because I couldn't remember how. Can you remind me? I found a couple of messages in my Inbox folder tonight that exhibited the same behavior. Again, those with a received date corresponding to the sent date cannot be read. Copies of the same messages received on the 22nd are fine! I cannot find the Received date and time (in the Received column) anywhere in the message headers. Can anyone tell me where this information comes from? Since it's identical in both TB! and Mulberry, it must be in the message somewhere, but where? The received time in the TB! received column is the time the message was received by TB! and not the server. You'll therefore not see that time in the message header. I thought at first that this was the case, but the fact that the dates were identical for TB! and Mulberry threw me off, I guess. I'm guessing that I probably used Thunderbird for three days before I got around to checking out TB! and Mulberry again on the 22nd. I must have started them up at the same time so that the received date and times would correspond. I haven't been able to find the date Thunderbird received these messages, because the Date column seems to mean the sent date, and I don't know
