Re[3]: How to streamline and automate TB?
Hello Michael, Friday, April 11, 2008, 9:45:29 AM, you wrote: Could you suggest a free IMAP provider to test it out with TB? Last time I tried it was pretty flaky. Gmail has IMAP support and is free. -- Best regards, Mean Current version is 4.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Synchronization revisited (or two user synchronization)
Hi, everyone, First, I would like to thank everyone who responded to my queries about synchronization of two separate installations of The Bat. The help and information provided by the moderators and other list members on this, and other questions, is invaluable. After posting my original query about how to synchronize The Bat on two separate computers, I went back through my personal archive of Bat mail and read every post on synchronization since January 2002. (As an aside: as a testament to The Bat's speed and functionality, I was able to quickly sort and pull up every message that had the letter grouping sync anywhere in the message. Since the search was on my hard drive, this search took not more than a minute or two, at most. From past experience, I know that it would have taken me 15-20 minutes to perform the same search at my office, where all mail is in Outlook on a heavily used server located across the country.) It seems to me that in most situations involving synchronization that were discussed on the list, there is a single user. Thus, synchronizing two computers to the most recent file is not an issue. However, where, as in my case, there are TWO users on two separate computers, true synchronization is more difficult since the more recent file may not necessarily include actions performed on the other computer. A clear example is where user A downloads e-mail on to computer A and then deletes some of it. User B subsequently downloads e-mail on to computer B and deletes none, but is likely to delete what A deleted, only at a later time. If synchronization occurs prior to when B deletes the same mail that A deleted, I think most synchronization programs would restore to A the mail that had already been deleted on A if synchronization goes from B to A. On the other hand, if it goes from computer A to B, then the same problem can also occur, depending upon who downloaded and deleted first. Unless a synchronization program is able to identify which e-mails have already been read and deleted, there is great potential for the mail box on A, in my example, to become clogged with mail copied from computer B that user A had already deleted on computer A. In order for both computers to be up to date, I would want to synchronize, automatically, overnight. (Which can be done with 3rd party software, I don't know if it can also be done with The Bat's own synchronization program.) The best solution would be IMAP. But, my mail file is already at 2.6 GB. Although gmail would accommodate this, not all of my mail is through my g-mail account. Personal and business mail is through a private domain on another server, and for security purposes, I am uncomfortable with leaving personal and business correspondence on an outside server. (The provider has a 1 GB limit for their most expensive option--too small for my purposes, anyway.) That leads me back to POP3. Since I don't know how a synchronization program could keep track of which mail has already been deleted on a computer and keep from copying back to that computer such mail from the other computer, it seems to me that the next best solution would be to do what a few here have suggested, which is to download e-mail separately on to both computers, but BCC any mail sent in order to make sure that each computer has on it all sent mail from both computers. This means that read/unread identifiers for a given message will not be identical on both machines, and, it also means that some mail deleted on one, may not be deleted on the other. This is not perfect, but it isn't critical. If I BCC to myself every sent e-mail from each of my accounts, that leads to two questions: 1. Is it possible to program The Bat to automatically BCC to myself every e-mail sent? 2. Since BCC'ing to myself every e-mail sent will create duplicates of that e-mail on the originating computer, what rule or filter can I create that will automatically delete the BCC'd item from the originating computer. There appears to be no BCC field in the filter's parameters. Moderators: Are these questions more appropriate for TBTECH? If so, I'll join and post there. -- Avram Sacks Using The Bat ver. 4.0.18 on XP Professional SP2 Current version is 4.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[7]: Best way to use The Bat on two home computers?
Wednesday, April 9, 2008, 11:56:33 AM, you wrote: This leads to my next question about synchronization: Assume desktop user Abe downloads e-mail in the morning: items a, b, and c are downloaded and Abe, in the morning, reads all messages and deletes items b and c from desktop. Assume laptop user Sara downloads the e-mail in the afternoon: items a, b, c, and d and Sara reads only item b and deletes nothing. Assume that a, b, c, and d will remain on server for 24 hours. At night, both the laptop and desktop synchronize. Here are my questions: 1. Will items b and c be deleted from the laptop or will they be added back to the desktop? With Directory Toolkit, I have the options of: Synchronize Both field: Adds new files to both directories and copies newer common files from either directory to the other. Augment Target field: Adds new files from the source directory to the target directory. Refresh Target field: Update only existing files from the source directory to the target directory. Update Target field: Updates existing files and adds new files from the source directory to the target directory. Update Prune Target field: Deletes files in the target directory that cannot be found in the source directory, updates existing files, and adds new files from the source directory to the target directory. Remove Duplicates from Target field: Deletes files in the target directory that were found in the source directory and were identical. If the Binary Check Files is on (Compare Options), files whose contents are identical are considered identical, otherwise if the date and time stamp is used to determine whether files are considered identical. Recreate Directory Structure Only: The directory structure of the source is created on the target but no files are copied. All subdirectories under the source path are reproduced regardless of program settings for view subdirectories (View Menu or Options-General). Delete All Empty Directories (from the target): Directories that contain no files on the target will be deleted. No other file operation is performed. All that being said, however, remember that the bat stores messages for each folder as ONE FILE. So if a file has some messages deleted and some added, that whole file will be replaced by the other file, which may have DIFFERENT messages added and deleted. Perhaps relevant to your other comment about different install locations, I consistently install ALL of the software I want to synchronize between two computers to ONE directory, namely /all my stuff/ for me. So the whole contents of the directory are synched back and forth. It does mean I have to be VERY careful to synch before opening the same program on a different computer without synching first. Otherwise I could lose things, both sent and received, as well as changes made in my calendar program, etc. BTW, for calendar I used to use Time Chaos, which I've liked for some ten years. They recently (like last year) changed to !ntellect, which is same calendaring with an integrated mail client. I switched to it from TheBat!, but within three months, since it was clear they weren't interested in upgrading the mail side of it, switched back to TB. I may never even try again to switch away from TB. (And I only tried it due to the integration featurewhich was terrible) dan -- The road goes on forever and the party never ends. REK, Jr. Dan Lester, Boise, ID Current version is 4.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Synchronization revisited (or two user synchronization)
On Friday, April 11, 2008, 12:25:43 PM, Achdut18 wrote: The best solution would be IMAP. But, my mail file is already at 2.6 GB. Although gmail would accommodate this, not all of my mail is through my g-mail account. I have a dummy account, which is password protected 'password' is easy to remember. Unless opened with the password it doesn't play a part in every day use. I use this account to archive, and currently have only 22,283 messages on fastmail. This keeps my imap at a reasonable size and still keeps everything easily accessible. -- Dwight A. Corrin 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm photo galleries at http://dcorrin.smugmug.com Using IMAP with The Bat! 4.0.20.2 on Windows XP version 5,1 (Service Pack 2) Current version is 4.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Synchronization revisited (or two user synchronization)
Hello Achdut18, A reminder of what Achdut18 typed on: Friday, April 11, 2008 at 12:25:43 GMT -0500 A If I BCC to myself every sent e-mail from each of my accounts, that leads to two questions: A 1. Is it possible to program The Bat to automatically BCC to myself every e-mail sent? You should be able to addthe predefined Macro %BCC=[EMAIL PROTECTED] to all your templates, New, Reply, Forward, etc. A 2. Since BCC'ing to myself every e-mail sent will create duplicates of that A e-mail on the originating computer, what rule or filter can I create that A will automatically delete the BCC'd item from the originating computer. A There appears to be no BCC field in the filter's parameters. You may have to delete the original as it is created, but you could also try automatically sorting e-mail sent by you to you into your sent mail folder and then use the folders Delete Duplicates command. -- Best regards, Stuartmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v4.0.20.2 On Windows XP 5.1 Build #2600 Current version is 4.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Synchronization revisited (gmail/imap/pop)
For those who have been following this thread, in a post that I just sent, I concluded that where two users are involved, the best synchronization solution appeared to me to be that I should allow mail to remain on the server for a period of time, perform separate downloads on each computer, and BCC to myself every piece of outgoing mail. Unfortunately, I have just discovered that while this works for the servers on which I have non-gmail accounts, this is not working with my g-mail accounts. Even though I have set account properties in The Bat on BOTH computers to leave mail on the server for 14 days, the first computer to download from the gmail server, is the one that gets the mail since the last download by either of the two computers. The second computer to download will only pick up newer mail, and not the mail downloaded by the first computer. I checked my gmail settings and discovered that I have IMAP enabled for each of my g-mail accounts and nothing is checked in the POP download section of the settings area. Since I only keep listserv mail in gmail, I never want that mail deleted from the gmail servers. So, how should I configure those settings so that The Bat will be able to download the mail to both computers? -- Avram Sacks Using The Bat ver. 4.0.18 on XP Pro sp2 Current version is 4.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: How to streamline and automate TB?
Wednesday, April 9, 2008, 10:50:31 PM, you wrote: keep better track of your accounts and what they are for I only have 3 active accounts, and to me the above is the secret. One only for surgery issues. One only for Corvette issues. One for everything else. I may be adding a couple more in the future, but they'll also be just as focused. dan -- The road goes on forever and the party never ends. REK, Jr. Dan Lester, Boise, ID Current version is 4.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Synchronization revisited (gmail/imap/pop)
Hello Achdut18, A reminder of what Achdut18 typed on: Friday, April 11, 2008 at 12:54:10 GMT -0500 A Unfortunately, I have just discovered that while this works for the servers A on which I have non-gmail accounts, this is not working with my g-mail A accounts. Even though I have set account properties in The Bat on BOTH A computers to leave mail on the server for 14 days, the first computer to A download from the gmail server, is the one that gets the mail since the last A download by either of the two computers. The second computer to download will A only pick up newer mail, and not the mail downloaded by the first computer. I A checked my gmail settings and discovered that I have IMAP enabled for each of A my g-mail accounts and nothing is checked in the POP download section of the A settings area. Since I only keep listserv mail in gmail, I never want that A mail deleted from the gmail servers. So, how should I configure those A settings so that The Bat will be able to download the mail to both computers? You need to recreate those accounts in The Bat as IMAP accounts. Then you can do what is the best way to go anyway. IMAP rules. (When it works right). :) Note also Dwights reply that you don't need to keep all you files on the IMAP account. You can download to your hard drive and archive them, then delete them off the IMAP server. BTW, I actually find that The Bat's IMAP seems to work best for me with my Gmail account. -- Best regards, Stuartmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v4.0.20.2 On Windows XP 5.1 Build #2600 Current version is 4.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Test - please delete
This is a test, only. Please delete. -- Avram Sacks Current version is 4.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Test 5
This is a test. Please delete -- Avram Sacks Current version is 4.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Test 5
Hallo Achdut18, On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:33:14 -0500GMT (11-4-2008, 20:33 +0200, where I live), you wrote: A This is a test. Please delete Please remember that you're sending your test messages to hundreds of subscribers of tbudl, so you might consider sending these messages to yourself or explaining what yopu're testing, so you might get some meaningful response. -- Groetjes, Roelof Mistrust first impulses, they are always good. http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 4.0.20.2 Windows Vista 6.0 Build 6000 3 pop3 accounts OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpoXFQHsx5IR.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 4.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Fwd: Synchronization revisited (gmail/imap/pop)
Hi, Stuart, From: Stuart Cuddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 1:04 PM Stuart Cuddy wrote: A reminder of what Achdut18 typed on: Friday, April 11, 2008 at 12:54:10 GMT -0500 A Even though I have set account properties in The Bat on BOTH A computers to leave mail on the server for 14 days, the first computer to A download from the gmail server, is the one that gets the mail since the last A download by either of the two computers. The second computer to download will A only pick up newer mail, and not the mail downloaded by the first computer. I A checked my gmail settings and discovered that I have IMAP enabled for each of A my g-mail accounts and nothing is checked in the POP download section of the A settings area. Since I only keep listserv mail in gmail, I never want that A mail deleted from the gmail servers. So, how should I configure those A settings so that The Bat will be able to download the mail to both computers? You need to recreate those accounts in The Bat as IMAP accounts. Then you can do what is the best way to go anyway. IMAP rules. (When it works right). :) OK. I just tried to reset the protocol for this acccount from POP3 to IMAP4. However, the Bat produced an error message that said: Cannot change protocol to IMAP4. Create a new account instead. Well, I don't want to create a new account. This account is subscribed to over a half a dozen listservs. If I have to change the account, that means rejoining each of these listervs, changing filters, etc. Is there an easier way to do this? Note also Dwights reply that you don't need to keep all you files on the IMAP account. You can download to your hard drive and archive them, then delete them off the IMAP server. BTW, I actually find that The Bat's IMAP seems to work best for me with my Gmail account. OK. I am not understanding something. I thought the whole point of IMAP was that you LEFT mail on the server so that it was accessible to multiple computers. Besides, I want to be able to access this mail via a web browser when I am not tethered to one of my computers. -- Avram Sacks using The Bat ver. 4.0.18 on Windows XP Pro, sp2 Current version is 4.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Synchronization revisited (or two user synchronization)
Hello Stuart, On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 12:46:47 -0500 GMT (12/04/2008, 00:46 +0700 GMT), Stuart Cuddy wrote: A If I BCC to myself every sent e-mail from each of my accounts, that leads to two questions: A 1. Is it possible to program The Bat to automatically BCC to myself every e-mail sent? SC You should be able to addthe predefined Macro %BCC=[EMAIL PROTECTED] to all SC your templates, New, Reply, Forward, etc. This is what I've been doing for years. A 2. Since BCC'ing to myself every e-mail sent will create A duplicates of that e-mail on the originating computer, what rule A or filter can I create that will automatically delete the BCC'd A item from the originating computer. There appears to be no BCC A field in the filter's parameters. SC You may have to delete the original as it is created, but you SC could also try automatically sorting e-mail sent by you to you SC into your sent mail folder and then use the folders Delete SC Duplicates command. Alternatively, don't use outgoing filters. All sent mails will then be in the Sent folder. I never look at the sent folder, expiration is set to a couple of days only. Instead, filter only on incoming messages. So the message that comes back in (the BCC) will be filtered into the correct folder. This is also a nice workaround for https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=3319 (One kind of filters). -- Cheers, Thomas. Signs Your Co-Worker Is A Hacker: Instead of the Welcome voice on AOL, you overhear, Good Morning, Mr./Mrs. President. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.0.20.2 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 4.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Synchronization revisited (gmail/imap/pop)
Hello Achdut18, On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 12:54:10 -0500 GMT (12/04/2008, 00:54 +0700 GMT), Achdut18 wrote: A Unfortunately, I have just discovered that while this works for A the servers on which I have non-gmail accounts, this is not working A with my g-mail accounts. Even though I have set account properties A in The Bat on BOTH computers to leave mail on the server for 14 A days, the first computer to download from the gmail server, is the A one that gets the mail since the last download by either of the two A computers. The second computer to download will only pick up newer A mail, and not the mail downloaded by the first computer. I checked A my gmail settings and discovered that I have IMAP enabled for each A of my g-mail accounts and nothing is checked in the POP download A section of the settings area. Since I only keep listserv mail in A gmail, I never want that mail deleted from the gmail servers. So, A how should I configure those settings so that The Bat will be able A to download the mail to both computers? Gmail's POP is something else. There might be a switch somewhere in the POP setttings, check it out. Otherwise, I suggest to use a provider that uses standard POP. -- Cheers, Thomas. Wachskerzen wachsen gar nicht, sondern werden im Gegenteil immer kleiner. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.0.20.2 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 4.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: How to streamline and automate TB?
Hello Dan, keep better track of your accounts and what they are for DL I only have 3 active accounts, and to me the above is the secret. Unfortunately I have so many projects to keep track of. I appreciate your input and simple would be the best way. I will rationalize the accounts. Dwight's suggestion of using IMAP for all the POP accounts with Fastmail.fm appeals to me. Does that mean I would delete the messages from my mail server and store them on Fastmail and look at them from TB online? What are the pros and cons of IMAP vs POP? I tried it with TB 4.0.16 and it just hung waiting to connect. Are the IMAP issues resolved with the current beta version of TB? Thanks, it's a great group and I am learning so much from you all. -- Michael J. Sharp B. Bus. (Marketing), C.N.E. cdisxm at thebat dot net Using the world's best e-mail client: The Bat! Pro v4.0.20.2 14 POP accounts and OFTE disabled AntispamSniper Professional v2.7.1.7 OS: Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Psst! We are using the fastest browser on the planet: Opera v9.2.7 Virus and Antispyware: VIPRE 3.1.2040 (Beta) Firewall: Sunbelt SPF v4.5.916.0 General Inquiries: Tel : 581-5151 - Int'l +599 581-5151 Tel : (Local French Side) 06.90.10.02.95 - Int'l: +590690100295 General Inquiries: Tel : 581-5151 - Int'l +599 581-5151 Tel : (Local French Side) 06.90.10.02.95 - Int'l: +590690100295 ___ See TechniSMart.com Current version is 4.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Synchronization revisited (gmail/imap/pop)
On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 at 14:39:46 -0500, Achdut18 wrote: OK. I just tried to reset the protocol for this acccount from POP3 to IMAP4. However, the Bat produced an error message that said: Cannot change protocol to IMAP4. Create a new account instead. Well, I don't want to create a new account. This account is subscribed to over a half a dozen listservs. If I have to change the account, that means rejoining each of these listervs, changing filters, etc. Is there an easier way to do this? You don't need to change your listserv because your email address remains the same. It's just that you create a new account in TB! to access the email. You will need to modify your filters though. -- Robin Using The Bat! v4.0.20 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Popfile v0.22.4 Current version is 4.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
