Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Sunday, October 27, 2002, 6:42:15 AM, Thomas wrote in message mid:351488417.20021027134215;gmx.net TF Well, they offer a free service to subscribers, it needs to be paid TF for somehow. The alternative would be to charge for membership - I TF prefer the ads. ;-) Yep I understand that Thomas, and for those who are happy to have ads to support the free service that's fine. I just find them intrusive and look for an alternative wherever possible. Although I realise that sometimes there isn't a viable alternative and have to endure them - like on the genealogy boards I use! ;-) -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Sunday, October 27, 2002, 8:33:25 AM, Dierk wrote in message mid:1983250806.20021027093325;gmx.net DH Try living happily in Germany ... I'll stick in England thanks Dierk ;-) -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Friday, October 25, 2002, 9:16:44 AM, Dierk wrote in message mid:785122254.20021025101644;gmx.net DH Much more important than having various fori (Latin plural and DH 2nd case) in different places. Personally Dierk I think it's important to give users a choice of where they go for help - some will find a forum suits them better than a mailing list and others will prefer a mailing list. I asked if there was a beginners list and was told this was it. I still feel that there needs to be someting more basic which answeres the questions of total beginners, and Marck's new Beginners Zone and a forum will help address that need. -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Friday, October 25, 2002, 9:19:13 AM, Dierk wrote in message mid:1035271501.20021025101913;gmx.net DH Right, instead. So, you have to be on both fora Not everyone would have to be Dierk, those who want to be on both can be, those who don't want to be will do their own thing anyhow. It's a matter of choice. DH The MB needs seasoned users for the answers, just in case anybody DH forgot who'd have to answer the questions). Yes and there are people willing to do that - those who are well-seasoned, and those (like me) who have been slightly salted (!) who can help with basic beginners questions. It'd be nice to see users told that TBUDL exists via the forum and when forum users feel they are ready to join it then I'm sure they will if they are interested enough in exploring TB to a greater depth. -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Scott, Friday, October 25, 2002, 1:15:06 PM, you wrote: SM I haven't noticed anyone mentioning it, but there's no reason that a SM message board cannot also be a mailing list. Yahoo and Topica are good SM examples of these; you can read mail online or you can get it via SM email or both. This would probably work quite well for everyone, if SM you don't mind the ads. I frequent a lot of the Yahoo help groups and always get the messages by E-Mail. Works very well that way and no adverts :-) The only time I do get to see the Yahoo web interface is for a couple of the groups which I am a moderator on, and yes the ads get annoying very quickly !! -- Best regards, Barry2 Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Allie, Friday, October 25, 2002, 4:38:47 PM, you wrote: snip ACM The same goes for other features. I'll be waiting for v2 before I ACM personally put together any more tutorials or support pages for any ACM of TB!'s major features. AIUI - the licence key with V1.x will not be valid for V2.x ??? In that case there will be users who will stay with their version rather than pay extra for the upgrade. So there is a case for having beginners tutorials / help for *both* versions and with maybe some notes on the differences between the various sub-versions ?? A lot of work indeed and maybe that's what is putting off the actual setting up of such a project. Or are we going provide little help for older versions to force folks to upgrade ?? Personally I'd not like TB! to go down that route !! -- Best regards, Barry2 Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Saturday, October 26, 2002, 10:59:54 AM, Dierk wrote in message mid:659771461.20021026115954;gmx.net DH 6. Message boards are only useful if they either aren't frequented DH very often or you be there always. For a pay-per-minute user the DH last option is not viable. I rather think Dieter's message about how the German message board works gives credance to the idea. There are boards in German and French already as has been posted elsewhere on TBUDL, so why the big deal against having one in English? -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Friday, October 25, 2002, 1:15:06 PM, Scott wrote in message mid:37382597093.20021025071506;local.nu SM Yahoo and Topica are good SM examples of these; you can read mail online or you can get it via SM email or both. This would probably work quite well for everyone, if SM you don't mind the ads. Oh no please! I've tried both these and they are *awful*! I really wouldn't want to inflict either on anyone - especially with the ads. Topica ads are even worse now and one list I'm on has left Topica in disgust. -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Friday, October 25, 2002, 1:59:03 PM, Don wrote in message mid:80166323330.20021025085903;donzeigler.com DZ I will have links to the test boards posted to the list sometime Sunday, DZ 10/27. Great news, Don, we shall look forward to seeing and trying them out. And thank you for undertaking this :-) -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Saturday, October 26, 2002, 11:51:08 AM, Marck wrote in message mid:1226490963.20021026115108;silverstones.com MDP The German market for TB is the biggest in the world. Dieter's work MDP in marketing TB there has given rise to a use base that I would MDP guess is at least twice as large as the rest of the world put MDP together. Maybe even more than that. This means that there are many MDP more German speakers using TB than any other language. Out of interest, was the board instrumental in that marketing or did it come as a result of the demand from the larger user base Marck? -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Saturday, October 26, 2002, 11:51:08 AM, Marck wrote in message mid:1226490963.20021026115108;silverstones.com MDP I don't think there's a big deal here. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding here Marck - it just comes across that some don't want the board to exist per se rather than just not want to use it themselves. That would deny others the choice to use whatever support forum (in the widest sense) suits them best. -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Dierk, Saturday, October 26, 2002, 12:57:58 PM, you wrote: DH I am all for thinking before doing something, but certain things have DH to be done to know what comes of it. It is the difference between DH logical and empirical facts. Well is looks like Don Zeigler has taken the plunge and started the ball rolling - let's all hope that it works regardless of whether or not *we* will actually use it ?? Personally, I'll be only to glad to add that to my expanding list of help groups I frequent and willingly contribute to lol -- Best regards, Barry2 Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Saturday, October 26, 2002, 11:57:58 AM, Dierk wrote in message mid:1416858070.20021026135758;gmx.net DH Seems today I am very easily misunderstood. Let me add (again, DH methinks), I am *not* against a message board; I won't frequent it. No worried Dierk - think I was still half-asleep when I wrote before anyway. Sorry :-) DH I may sound a bit harsh because for the last years - and thant's DH nothing to do with TB, its users or these lists - ever more people DH only come around to discuss thinks instead of trying them out. I think a certain amount of discussion is needed before something is tried, but it can get so that everyone talks and no-one does whatever is talked about. In this case Don has taken up the challenge and done it so the talk can end :-) DH I am all for thinking before doing something, but certain things have DH to be done to know what comes of it. It is the difference between DH logical and empirical facts. Agreed - what we call over here *a suck it and see* ;-) -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Saturday, October 26, 2002, 3:25:37 PM, Dieter wrote in message mid:16617679171.20021026172537;is-web.com DH As Marck already pointed out: it's the latter, of course. I got a lot of DH user requests for an online forum - and thus, I created one... DH If people want to share experience or simply ask for help online, there DH should be a way to do that. (Verbal) Contributions from members are of DH high quality (mostly :-) and announcements about TB! development comes DH from 1st hand... DH To service corporate users/customers also (which generally don't use DH message boards) I'll install a commercial ticket system (helpdesk) for DH which we act as a distributor also. Thank you for explaining Dieter. I agree entirely that there should be a way of answering questions and providing help, and the spin off to help promote TB is a definite bonus. -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Saturday, October 26, 2002, 5:07:48 PM, Scott wrote in message mid:58486566671.20021026120748;local.nu SM Why do you think they're awful? Hi Scott, The service on the Topica list was flaky and messages were often lost/didn't reach all list subscribers, Yahoo lists also suffer some mail loss and some users don't receive the messages even when they are set to do so, and finally the Yahoo web interface adverts are irritating and intrusive. -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Marck, Friday, October 25, 2002, 5:22:58 AM, you wrote: MDP -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- MDP Hash: SHA1 MDP Hi Angel, MDP 24-Oct-2002, 21:45 -0700 (05:45 UK time) Angel [A] in MDP mid:6093719401.20021024214513;email.com said: ACM This is why the board would need dedicated participants to ACM offer prompt help if you're all serious about getting it to ACM successfully take off. A I really hope it is considered, and seriously so. MDP I don't know if this has been made clear but the neither the TB list MDP moderators nor the TB list hosters have expressed any interest in MDP creating, hosting or moderating such a board. Hello Marck and everyone, I have been following the discussion of a proposal to have a novice forum setup on the web. Many points have been raised: Who would run it? What form it would take, blah, blah. Perhaps a forum is not what's needed. As an example, I am a novice user of some art software called Xara X, Xara supports a forum (for lack of a better term) containing tutorials (the XaraXone.com). Yes, there's a conference section, but that seems to me most like having these email discussions, but it's the tutorials I've gone for. I have learned more about the program than any other program I have had because the tutorials are so well written. In order to solve this problem for the new users, clearly they're intimidated by the industrial look of TB! - why not design a good, follow-the-steps set of tutorials that can help a new person settle in? It probably wouldn't do to separate out the boards to multi- user and single user, (which I often imagined) because many of the issues are the same, though to be honest, I'm bored stiff by the programming the multi users have to do. As a single user, I will NEVER encounter many of the issues that come up for the networked corporate user, but occasionally there are some things that pertain. One of the other considerations people have mentioned in this thread is the visibility of TB!, a separate topic from the forum idea. It would be nice for RitLabs - or perhaps all the resellers as a group - to have a webpage clearly labeled TheBat.com or somesuch. Yes, then people on Google or whoever, would be able to find them. Have a tutorial section. Have a template download section. Lots of ideas. -- Fond regards to all Bats, mmmailto:mmeister;sprintmail.com Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Thomas, Friday, October 25, 2002, 10:20:51 AM, you wrote: TF Hello mm, TF On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:54:37 -0400 GMT (25/10/02, 20:54 +0700 GMT), TF mm Meister wrote: In order to solve this problem for the new users, clearly they're intimidated by the industrial look of TB! - why not design a good, follow-the-steps set of tutorials that can help a new person settle in? TF Actually I thought about it. When you look at Eudora, you can go to TF any good bookshop and buy a big book called Using Eudora. But for TF The Bat, the book would be out of date by the time it is printed and TF hits the stores. Yes on some things. I still get use out my old PageMaker manual for version 5. We have the same problem. Just now we are about to release our new version of software and realize that because of future changes the manual really will be out of date, so we cannot take advantage of lower printing costs for the larger print order. TF To publish the tutorials on the web means constant updating, as TB's TF development is quite fast (or maybe it just feels that way to beta TF testers?), and I cannot promise the tutorial would always refer to the TF latest version. A tutorial based on a prior version is useless, maybe TF even damaging to the software's reputation (as people try out things TF that in the end don't work that way in the current version they just TF downloaded). I believe this depends on how you do it. There are things that will always remain the same. How does one actually set up their mail ? That's the same, regardless. Why use templates? How do you write templates? Write these with the idea of the single user in mind (the corporate guys can pay for it ;) So if you write the tutorial with the idea of how to accomplish certain tasks in TheBat!, then it will possibly never go out of date (unless TheBat! someday includes automatic template creation) :0 TF I haven't given up the idea, but I don't think it makes a lot of sense TF to start the project now (it will probably take a few months to write TF all of this), because v2 is already on the horizon and we have no idea TF how the interface etc will change. Well yes, but if you were to do just a basic how-to tutorial, that would still be ok. It would depend on how much time you can volunteer to the project! :) Time is the most expensive thing there is, I think. I so enjoy your tag lines, Thomas. -- mmmailto:mmeister;sprintmail.com Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Wednesday, October 23, 2002, 4:56:50 PM, Dierk wrote in message mid:150589013.20021023175650;gmx.net DH BTW, this started with the reference to beginners. Do beginners - DH particularly the mentioned absolute beginners - really are served DH with a newsgroup or a message board? Speaking from my own experience here Dierk, I've tried several new programs and the first place I check out for help is if there's a forum. I also go looking in forums for tech help on general OS stuff as well, so maybe I'm not that typical a user. Having said that I was introduced to forums as helpful places by my teenage son who's an online gamer where forums are much used of course. Newsgroups are a different area altogether - I started out there when I put my first PC online, and although they have their uses, I don't rate them as much as forums for helping with tech support type stuff personally. -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Wednesday, October 23, 2002, 3:47:45 AM, Thomas wrote in message mid:1161482846.20021023094745;gmx.net TF You are definitely infected by the TB fever. There is no known cure. TF ;-) Oh thank goodness for that! I'd hate to be sent back to OE or similar for treatment! g -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Paul, Friday, October 25, 2002, 1:29:02 AM, you wrote: PW I can see it coming. A question is asked on TBUDL, to get to a PW real answer to the question you have to dig through 15 That has PW been covered on the message board, responses. I really think a PW message would be more of a detraction than an attraction. The PW Moderators have a heavy volume of traffic to keep up with, why add PW more? That would only happen if TBUDL and any message list covered the same ground. What is talked about here is an 'absolute beginners' forum where new users can get basic help on setting up and using TB! What I can envisage is the more advanced questions on the forum being referred to TBUDL ... users needing that sort of advice aren't newbies any more so this would be the logical place to go in future. Then again, there will be users who will be satisfied with getting TB! to do what they want and never use the advanced functions ( and indeed have no interest in such ). For such users TBUDL is way over their heads and would probably lead them to ditch TB! once the 30 day trial is over and go back to OE spit Also it's suggested that TBUDL moderators *do not* get involved with the running of the forum ( though welcome to contribute of course ) and I agree with that idea 100%. -- Best regards, Barry2 Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Friday, October 25, 2002, 1:29:02 AM, Paul wrote in message mid:2833326734.20021024172902;paulwilson.com PW I can see it coming. A question is asked on TBUDL, to get to a real PW answer to the question you have to dig through 15 That has been PW covered on the message board, responses. Paul, I can't imagine that happening unless someone is going to be monitoring every message on a forum in case something similar is asked here. I'm sure the hard-working mods on TBUDL have more than enough to do to be doing that! The way I see it is that if a question is asked here it'll be answered here as it would be now. If it's asked on a forum it'd be answered there instead. -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On Thursday, October 24, 2002, Allie C Martin wrote in mid:9626993754.20021024223143;landscreek.net: If there's an atmosphere of prompt assistance and comraderie, then it will spread and infect the others who frequent the group. That's an interesting observation, Allie. This ML has a spirit that is fairly unusual in such groups. Perhaps it's a function in part of the particular personalities and in part of the high traffic, which keeps a certain tone right out in front all the time. Whatever the causes, there are levels of respect, helpfulness, and congeniality here which are quite nice. -- JN Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Roelof, Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 7:06:58 PM, you wrote: RO Hallo Peter, RO On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:45:31 -0400GMT (22-10-02, 23:45 +0200GMT, where RO I live), you wrote: PK I am a user only and are not that familiar with all the PK technicalities. PK Is message board same as a Usenet Forum? similar to PK alt.usenet.off-linereader.forte-agent or do we have to go PK somewhere else for the messages? RO It's no usenet. It's a website where you can read messages via a html RO page. It's comparable to the current archive (see: RO http://www.mail-archive.com/tbudl;thebat.dutaint.com/ ), but with the RO possibility to post messages. RO Compare it with a crossover between hotmail and the list-archive. RO Depending on the settings and the used program the board can be RO accessed with logging on or with logging on with a personal account. RO IMNSHO It's a waste of time and effort. A list like this beats a RO message board with two hands tied on the back. Based on your explanation of the Message Board I agree with you 100%. The current system is much better, especially for people not connected all the time (broadband). I can read it off-line. On the other hand, if someone wants the change why not Usenet forum? This can be read on-line or off-line as desired. Can download only messages interested in and ignore others. -- Best regards, Petermailto:pkerekes;ca.inter.net Using The Bat! v1.62/Beta4 on Windows 98 Policies are many, Principles are few, Policies will change, Principles never do. -- John C. Maxwell Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Leif, Wednesday, October 23, 2002, 1:35:51 PM, you wrote: LG I can see value added in having a web board to support complete LG newbies, where they can get their feet wet. However, what I LG foresee in this, is that one, you're going to have to have a LG pretty dedicated staff of moderators who will be willing to LG answer the same basic questions over and over again, and two, that LG I am guessing that once someone decides that TB is for them, LG they'll graduate to the TBUDL lists. Therefore the discussion LG board active users will be a relatively small group always. LG Granted there will always be exceptions where a user just wishes LG to get it running enough to replace OE/LO and that's all they LG desire, so they'll populate neither the discussion board or TBUDL. Very neatly put into a nutshell there Leif :-) What's been proposed is a way of making TB! appeal to a wider user base and yes it will take a dedicated team of 'Batters' to run it. As for answering the same questions over and over ... that's what happens in the tech support groups I frequent so nothing new there I suppose lol Guess that makes me a candidate for the team .. OK, I'm willing to give it a go so just let me know when and where :-) And I agree it's going to take more than one or two to make this work. -- Best regards, Barry2 Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Thomas- Wednesday, October 23, 2002, 6:26:04 AM, you wrote: TM if there is a need of a English spoken message board. I have on TM running since some weeks. It is a part of my TheBat Info page which TM is in the moment in German but will be translated to English soon. The TM Board is English. So let me now if there is really a need and i will TM configurated everything in English. It's also loaded with annoying pop-up and pop-under ads. I won't be going back there again. -Mark Wieder Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2 -- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Dear jwayne, Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at 3:37:48 PM you wrote: j I'm sure that your efforts to set this up would be much appreciated, but seeing j as a message board is a much more professional way to support a product I'm j suprised that the impetus for doing so doesn't come directly from RIT. Ritlabs develops the program. They have us, the re-sellers, to do the support of the customers. As mentioned earlier, we have both mailing-lists in French and Danish, and online Boards on French in order to give the best support. -- Kind regards, Britt Malka |\/| | \__/ | \/\/ | | \\ // \ / \/ ... That's thirty minutes away. I'll be there in ten. ... www.malka.it - www.malka.dk - www.supermalka.dk ... Mailer: Ritlabs SecureBat! v1.61 (7BA406E8D52) under Windows 2000 5.0 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Jon, Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 2:37:48 PM, you wrote: j I'd much rather use a message board than a mailing list. Lots of my j time is spent deleting email messages that I'm not interested in. j Message boards are usually searchable, can be divided into topics, j etc etc. Horses for courses - personally I'd participate in both but that's just my masochist nature showing lol The important thing is for there actually to *be* a choice ?? -- Best regards, Barry2 Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, Anne wrote in mid:19272592895.20021022171901;gmx.co.uk: A Number of forums - hmmm... I'd suggest: [Could have sworn I remember Anne identifying herself not too long ago as a newcomer to the program Anne, you integrate quickly :-) ] While the division of forums (fora?) which Anne suggested could be helpful in some ways, I'm concerned that it would exacerbate the big problem with the message board idea to begin with: more time and effort. There would be more links to click to view messages, essentially the *opposite* of having them all in a TB folder threaded by reference so they can be eyeballed quickly and at one time. Plus, there is the concern, which was discussed in the course of Anne's earlier post about a different list, that discussions of one topic often morph into, or are pertinent to, other topics. So, this would be a vote against too many separate forums, and, instead, in favor of fewer forums with good topic identification practices and threading of replies. -- JN Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, Thomas Fernandez wrote in mid:14318930794.20021022232631;gmx.net: TF I don't read webboards, because it is out of the TF question if you are on a pay-per-minute dial-up. Thomas alluded to an interesting point. If there are many who pay by the minute, then an online forum would make sense only if there were sufficient benefit to outweigh the presumably fewer participants. -- JN Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 7:36:56 PM, Allie wrote in message mid:11813551335.20021022133656;landscreek.net ACM But to each his own. No real sense in discussing whether or not it ACM should be done if there's enough demand for it. Those who prefer the ACM web board will use it. Those who prefer a mailing list will use it. ACM Pretty much like how we choose our software and OS's eh? :) Allie I think this is exactly right - give a choice as to what format is preferred by the user. If both formats are available then it's up to users where they choose to go for help - no-one is demanding that all the great people on list devote even more time to a forum as well. Those who want to use it and support it will do so regardless and those who prefer the list will stay here and do their stuff - and those of us who like both formats will frequent both as and when time permits. (Makes me sound like the TB reading confirmation template! g) -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Roelof, Wednesday, October 23, 2002, 12:06:58 AM, you wrote: RO IMNSHO It's a waste of time and effort. A list like this beats a RO message board with two hands tied on the back. Maybe for the more experienced PC user it is, but for newcomers to TB! with little PC knowledge then the Message Boards would be a good place to start learning how to configure TB! in simple language where they won't feel 'out of their depth'. Those that want to take their knowledge of TB! to a higher level can progress onto TBUDL as they feel up to the challenge. IMHO if you don't make TB! appeal to a wider user-base then it runs the risk of staying second fiddle to the likes of OE whereas we all know that it should be up there on the conductors' rostrum :-) -- Best regards, Barry2 Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Gary, Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 6:29:07 PM, you wrote: G I too agree in total with Thomas, and for additional reasons, one G that being a webboard is not email, or will be used by email, which G is the essence of TB! Also, by using and contributing to TBUDL, one G can practice with the many features in real time usage of TB, and G not by replying to an HTML webboard, if that makes sense. In other G words, 'ya get to use the darn thing, g You have a point there since the best way of learning is by doing - what I think the message board idea is about is having another point of contact with new users of TB! which will not outface them with the sheer volume of mail or types of subjects discussed. What a newbie to TB! really needs is clear instructions on how to set the thing up so they can use it and switch over from their existing e-mail client. If they can't make the switch reasonably easily then they will probably give up when the 30 day trial is up ? Once you get folks actually using TB! then by all means encourage them to dive into TBUDL and really get to know the client, but the majority will just be happy to use TB! for the security features alone and not be delving into macros and things esoteric. -- Best regards, Barry2 Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Wednesday, October 23, 2002, 1:50:19 AM, Tom wrote in message mid:10014002103.20021023105019;tpg.com.au TS I was thinking about this. I use a program called SuperMemo TS (www.supermemo.com) and one of its features(?) is the ability to set TS various levels of operation - basic, intermediate and so on. TS Obviously, at the basic level most of the functions are hidden, and TS are gradually revealed at each level. Can something like this be TS considered for The Bat? Not being a programmer I don't fully TS appreciate the complexities involved. Is this unrealistic? FirstPage2000 web site writing program has the same idea, but I can't really see a need for it (good as it is in things like FirstPage2000) for TB. Most of the features are in various menus anyhow and can be explored at leisure once you have the basic idea of how to use TB. I keep finding new stuff and wondering what it does - play with it - read the help file - ask on here - and lo! I have something else that I can use. The problem about setting levels of operation is that it assumes everyone will want to use the same features at different levels - and with something like TB I don't think this is going to be the case. -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Thomas, Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 8:32:42 PM, you wrote: TF TBUDL is supposed to be the beginners' list. Maybe so, but there are beginners and beginners and I think there will be a lot of very 'green' PC users trying out TB! who would go running back to OE at the sight of TBUDL !! What's been advocated is a gentler introduction the the world of TB! Not as a substitute to TBUDL. -- Best regards, Barry2 Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
