Re[2]: TheBat or Pocomail
Hi ken Just wanted to drop a note to say I agree with the points you've made too. Inline comments would have been ridiculous..with my saying yep! after every other sentence :) Cheers, -Vishal Current version is 2.02.3 CE | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TheBat or Pocomail
Vishal Nakra wrote: Poco's interface is beautiful. Outright winner in the usability shootouts in my opinion. Its more powerful features are often a match for TB's, and are more easily used. I downloaded PocoMail this evening and have been playing around with it. I agree wholeheartedly on your comments above. The usability improvements that Poco offers are significant. There are some things that I found right away to just make more sense. I had always thought that the visual aspects of a mail client were unimportant. And back when I last looked at other clients, many reviews said Eudora had the nicest interface - and I hated it. But Poco does look nice. And it's skinnable - which seems silly to me, but I have thought that about skins before. And with some of the skinnable apps I have, I end up finding a few skins that are simple, clean and toned down and I find it's a nice touch. The HTML sanitizing features are another part that is impressive from a security standpoint. TB's HTML capability is better left unspoken about, since the many threads on this list will have shown you how far it has to go yet. Poco's is polished, though I didn't use it much either. I'm a big advocate of NOT using HTML, so for me, this really isn't a negative for TB. I just want an e-mail client that allows me to turn it all off, and for the rare occasions that I need to view an HTML message - and easy method for doing so (both Poco and TB have this). I played with Poco a few months ago, but resisted changing because I hadn't fully experimented with TB's very powerful macros and templates. I don't know if there is ever a good time to go through the painful process of switching. I want to give Poco a fair shot and spend some time with it, but learning a new program is time-consuming. My initial impression, though, is that there are some features that I consider important that Poco has - and are easy to use/set-up. I didn't want to give up on TB without doing that. TB's templates are better, but then Poco has its own scripting language that could do wonders for you if you know how to use it well. I didn't even want to consider another e-mail client that did not allow at least some basic address book templates. I didn't think Poco had them, but they're there. I have not delved into the scripting capabilities of Poco yet. TB has other advantages. Speed, for one. You'll quickly notice that Poco is pretty slow at downloading lots of mail. This won't be a problem if you don't receive a lot, but if you plan on subscribing to heavy-traffic mailing lists, be prepared to wait a lot. I used version 3, though, and the mailing lists had posts after that on how the speed was improved significantly in the later betas. My speed comment may be out of date now. Poco also tended to crash somewhat more than TB, and the user forums reveal other bugs that people weren't happy about. TB is definitely fast. That's been one of its biggest assets for years. I can't tell yet how much slower Poco is, but it doesn't seem to be a problem. It's definitely not as fast as The Bat, though. I'm not sure if that is such a problem if I'm checking mail regularly throughout the day (unless its REALLY slow) Can't say anything about crashing. TB has been pretty stable for me for a long time. Since there's only one developer for Poco, that's understandable. (Hats off to the guy for the singlehanded effort he's pulled off). Honestly, I think The Bat would be dead in the water were it not for this list. That's my opinion and could very well be completely wrong. But I find the community that is involved with a product is often just as (or more) important that the developer(s). People here have been very helpful and friendly. I don't know how the Poco forums are, but they are active. The problem, though, is that some issues that I may deem critical - if they aren't important to the list, they might just go unnoticed. I know that's very self-serving, but at the end of the day, I purchased The Bat for me to use. There have been a few issues with TB that I just can't comprehend. They go beyond idiosyncrasies. I don't like several things about TB - the HTML rendering, attachment handing and user interface primarily. But ultimately, I stuck with it because it was just plain too much bother to switch, with all the address book and other incompatibilities. It's interesting to see what people will go through to keep from changing. I'm convinced that a few of the expert users here would probably drop The Bat were it not for the hassle of switching, and their know-how and willingness to concoct elaborate work-arounds to problems the software itself should address. I think for me, the timing is right. I was irritated about The Bat's handling of the Memo field (and not being able to change the Subject line), and then experienced some weird, unexplainable behavior with attachments. I didn't get the answers I
Re: TheBat or Pocomail - THANKS
Again, the question 'what is better, The Bat! or Pocomail? is an impossible question to answer Similar to asking a group of motorcyclists what is the best out of BMWs, Ducatis, Harleys etc Questions of personal preferences - aesthetics, and what weight you put on different characteristics - come into play big time. But thank you all for your helpful comments. No, you haven't 'answered' my question - an impossible 'ask' - but your insights have been interesting and helpful... Finally, whatever I personally dislike about The Bat! (and I dislike something about all of the several programs I have tried!), I do not doubt it is an excellent email program - easily among the best... -- Kind regards, Steve NSW AUSTRALIA Monday, 5 January 2004 20:39 Mailer: The Bat! v2.02.3 CE (www.ritlabs.com) Modern English is the Wal-Mart of languages: convenient, huge, hard to avoid, superficially friendly, and devouring all rivals in its eagerness to expand. -Mark Abley, journalist (1955- ) Current version is 2.02.3 CE | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TheBat or Pocomail - THANKS
S J Love wrote: Similar to asking a group of motorcyclists what is the best out of BMWs, Ducatis, Harleys Honda VFR -- Ken Green Using The Bat! v1.62r on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TheBat or Pocomail
Hello, Sunday, January 4, 2004, 10:32:51 AM, you wrote: tko I must say I don't get Pocomail. Then again, I don't get XP. Windows XP works. I've been using it for a couple of years, and no blue screens, in fact, I've never had an XP-related problem. Pocomail, on the other hand, is currently too buggy for public release, despite the fact that it is out of beta. It has a more modern looking, and more modern working (i.e. mouse rather than Ctrl-Alt-Shift-F12) interface. -- Cheers, Ken Using The Bat! v2.02.3 CE on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TheBat or Pocomail
-- Monday, January 5, 2004, 11:55:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Sunday, January 4, 2004, 10:32:51 AM, you wrote: tko I must say I don't get Pocomail. Then again, I don't get XP. I don't use consumer OS and I don't care for the pleasing interface. I know you can disable it, but it was mostly an off-hand remark. I see PocoMail as similarly marketed. I am not the target market. Windows XP works. I've been using it for a couple of years, and no blue screens, in fact, I've never had an XP-related problem. Pocomail, on the other hand, is currently too buggy for public release, despite the fact that it is out of beta. It has a more modern looking, and more modern working (i.e. mouse rather than Ctrl-Alt-Shift-F12) interface. The Bat! has been historically buggy for extended periods of time. The keyboard interaction is another factor of marketing. Those who use professional and server OS, with traditional win32 ui, also happen to be sufficiently advanced enough (not the other way around), to also use keyboard shortcuts to a greater degree than others. Does The Bat! provide features accessible by keyboard alone that PocoMail provides in Menus? After all, The Bat has mouse/menu interaction as well. A typical consumer/customer could be confused by the options in TB, but they simply do not have to worry about the keyboard shortcuts. The big thing about Poco, to me, a developer, and possibly others, is... What the is this interface? That's not Windows. If I remember right, it was also lacking in many other areas important to *me*. As such, I think Becky is the closest rival to The Bat. PocoMail is an orange to The Bat's apple. All the while, I wish The Bat was simply better, there are simple things which would make it ultimately more useful and now that i think of it, some of these things might actually make it more consumer-ly appealing. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 2.02.3 CE | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: TheBat or Pocomail
On Sunday, January 4, 2004, 1:32:51 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- Friday, January 2, 2004, 4:24:28 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bat Persons, This may not be an appropriate question to ask on this list - and one impossible to answer anyway - but I will ask anyway... tko Despite what mere mortals might say, this is perfectly fine. What is 'better': The Bat! or Pocomail? tko I'd recommend checking out Becky as an alternative to The Bat. tko For me, that is the product which comes closest to replacing TB. tko I must say I don't get Pocomail. Then again, I don't get XP. I'm always willing to try alternative programs even for the ones when I'm entrenched in (like TB) so I just downloaded Becky. Any TB users that require anything more than very basic templates can forget about Becky. Though there does seem to be some sort of API available with the client, the out of the box macro capabilities are pretty much non-existent from what I can tell. jon -- jwayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 2.02.3 CE | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TheBat or Pocomail
-- Friday, January 2, 2004, 4:24:28 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This may not be an appropriate question to ask on this list - and one impossible to answer anyway - but I will ask anyway... tko Despite what mere mortals might say, this is perfectly fine. What is 'better': The Bat! or Pocomail? tko I'd recommend checking out Becky as an alternative to The Bat. tko For me, that is the product which comes closest to replacing TB. tko I must say I don't get Pocomail. Then again, I don't get XP. I'm always willing to try alternative programs even for the ones when I'm entrenched in (like TB) so I just downloaded Becky. Any TB users that require anything more than very basic templates can forget about Becky. Though there does seem to be some sort of API available with the client, the out of the box macro capabilities are pretty much non-existent from what I can tell. Yes, a lot of Becky functionality is provided through it's wonderful plugin API. There are some other problems as well. I have documented them and discussed them with various Becky communities online. Any users that require anything more than very basic plugin API can forget about TB. You see, I can say similar things of TB, but that's not what this was about. This was about a recommendation to throw Becky into the mix being discussed; PocoMail and TB. Similarly, I use UltraEdit, but can most certainly spare the space in my memory to recommend close runners up, like EditPlus and CrimsonEditor. The same goes for many topics when people are seeking recommendations. Remember though, I use TB. Yes, TB. And more than adequately licensed. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 2.02.3 CE | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TheBat or Pocomail
-- Friday, January 2, 2004, 4:24:28 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bat Persons, This may not be an appropriate question to ask on this list - and one impossible to answer anyway - but I will ask anyway... Despite what mere mortals might say, this is perfectly fine. What is 'better': The Bat! or Pocomail? I'd recommend checking out Becky as an alternative to The Bat. For me, that is the product which comes closest to replacing TB. I must say I don't get Pocomail. Then again, I don't get XP. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 2.02.3 CE | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TheBat or Pocomail
Hi S Friday, January 2, 2004, 5:24:28 PM, you wrote: SJL This may not be an appropriate question to ask on this list - and one SJL impossible to answer anyway - but I will ask anyway... SJL What is 'better': The Bat! or Pocomail? There was another thread on this some time ago that you might want to check out. Poco's interface is beautiful. Outright winner in the usability shootouts in my opinion. Its more powerful features are often a match for TB's, and are more easily used. The HTML sanitizing features are another part that is impressive from a security standpoint. TB's HTML capability is better left unspoken about, since the many threads on this list will have shown you how far it has to go yet. Poco's is polished, though I didn't use it much either. I played with Poco a few months ago, but resisted changing because I hadn't fully experimented with TB's very powerful macros and templates. I didn't want to give up on TB without doing that. TB's templates are better, but then Poco has its own scripting language that could do wonders for you if you know how to use it well. TB has other advantages. Speed, for one. You'll quickly notice that Poco is pretty slow at downloading lots of mail. This won't be a problem if you don't receive a lot, but if you plan on subscribing to heavy-traffic mailing lists, be prepared to wait a lot. I used version 3, though, and the mailing lists had posts after that on how the speed was improved significantly in the later betas. My speed comment may be out of date now. Poco also tended to crash somewhat more than TB, and the user forums reveal other bugs that people weren't happy about. Since there's only one developer for Poco, that's understandable. (Hats off to the guy for the singlehanded effort he's pulled off). I don't like several things about TB - the HTML rendering, attachment handing and user interface primarily. But ultimately, I stuck with it because it was just plain too much bother to switch, with all the address book and other incompatibilities. Cheers, -- Vishal Current version is 2.02.3 CE | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TheBat or Pocomail
On Friday, January 2, 2004, 5:24:28 PM, S J Love [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SJL Hi Bat Persons, SJL This may not be an appropriate question to ask on this list - and one SJL impossible to answer anyway - but I will ask anyway... SJL What is 'better': The Bat! or Pocomail? SJL I have been using both for some months now - The Bat! for over a year - SJL and I find I like and dislike features of both... SJL Presumably most are on this list because they are The Bat! SJL devotess and would opine that The Bat! is a winner by a country mile! SJL Anyway, this is an honest question I'm not endorsing TB over Pocomail because I haven't tried the latter (tho it does look like Pocomail has a more polished exterior.) And I don't really think that this list is the best place for an impartial opinion! But search for bat on the Pocomail forums http://www.pocosystems.com/forum/index.php and see what folks there say. I checked out 4 postings at random (posting headers follow:) 1) leaving Poco until Bayesian filtering (mentions even the bat! has a bayesian freeware plugin) 2) disappointed (a user who had problems setting up pocomail and found it buggy and ended up registering tb!) 3) virus protection (no AVG plugin for Poco but there is one for TB) 4 no longer wants to check Yahoo (more than one Yahoo _POP_ can't get their messages, POPfile and TB work fine) jon -- jwayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 2.02.3 CE | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
TheBat or Pocomail
Hi Bat Persons, This may not be an appropriate question to ask on this list - and one impossible to answer anyway - but I will ask anyway... What is 'better': The Bat! or Pocomail? I have been using both for some months now - The Bat! for over a year - and I find I like and dislike features of both... Presumably most are on this list because they are The Bat! devotess and would opine that The Bat! is a winner by a country mile! Anyway, this is an honest question -- Kind regards, Steve ARMIDALE NSW AUSTRALIA mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Saturday, 3 January 2004 09:18 Mailer: The Bat! v2.02.3 CE Current version is 2.02.3 CE | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TheBat or Pocomail
On Friday, January 2, 2004 @ 2:24:28 PM [-0700], S J Love wrote: Presumably most are on this list because they are The Bat! devotess and would opine that The Bat! is a winner by a country mile! One of the users, Tony Bloom, has used both quite a bit and is probably going to have the best info on this but just to add my two cents... I've used TB! for a few years and decided to try Pocomail a few weeks ago. After creating all the filters and folders (painstakingly I might add) I promptly switched back after about 48 hours. TB! has it's quirks but it is so much easier to work with! I missed the editor, the F9 for headers, the extensive filtering capabilities...the list goes on. It's hard to explain but I'm more into the technical aspects of software and TB just feels better. :) I'm sure others can relate... -- Matt Current version is 2.02.3 CE | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TheBat or Pocomail
Hi Steve, Hi Bat Persons, Yes, I am a Bat! Person This may not be an appropriate question to ask on this list - and one impossible to answer anyway - but I will ask anyway... very true ;-) What is 'better': The Bat! or Pocomail? I think better is what fit's your needs, 4 or 5 years ago, when I started using the bat, the answer to this question was clear for me, it was The Bat. As I now had a view over the featurelist of Pocomai, it is much harder to tell today... I have been using both for some months now - The Bat! for over a year - and I find I like and dislike features of both... From the quick view on Poco mail I can't tell that much, but I can tell what I like about the Bat. The bat is a mailclient with a lots of power under it's hood, but lots of the Powerfeatures are well hidden (I for myself like that) because I get them when I need them, but most time it is just mailing that I want... so all things not needed for everyday use are well hidden :-) I had friend telling me that they see no difference between the bat and Outlook express ...after trying the bat for 5-14 days the registered, spending money for a mail client (which the never thought about before...) Presumably most are on this list because they are The Bat! devotess and would opine that The Bat! is a winner by a country mile! yes as you see :-) The winner for me is the bat, but if I had to chouse today, maybe it would be Pocomail... I don't know Anyway, this is an honest question and this is my honest answer Thomas pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.02.3 CE | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TheBat or Pocomail
1/2/2004, 6:00 PM: Matt said in TheBat or Pocomail MT On Friday, January 2, 2004 @ 2:24:28 PM [-0700], S J Love wrote: Presumably most are on this list because they are The Bat! devotess and would opine that The Bat! is a winner by a country mile! MT One of the users, Tony Bloom, has used both quite a bit and is MT probably going to have the best info on this but just to add my two MT cents... I started using TB and PocoMail at about the same time (97 or 98). Initially, I was drawn to poco -- its interface is, albeit [quirky?], 'prettier' but the more time I spent with the two, the more I was drawn into TB. The sheer power of it, for one thing -- very few aspects of it are beyond customization. TBUDL helped, as well -- I like an active support community, active development. Poco is probably easier for the novice user and has a few convenient features ( its scripting implementation is nice ) but all in all, TB Packs the punch, IMHO. MT (snip) I missed the editor, the F9 for headers, the extensive MT filtering capabilities...the list goes on. It's hard to explain but MT I'm more into the technical aspects of software and TB just feels MT better. :) I'm sure others can relate... I'm absolutely stuck on MicroEd, RegEx, the template functionality . . . I find TB's different functions to be integrated into one another splendidly. I'll admit to not having toyed with Poco for a good year or so, though. Been using TB too long to not stick with it. I hate change :-) -- Peace, be well J Allen R Day http://protempore.org I'm living so far beyond my income that we may almost be said to be living apart. -e e cummings Bat! 2.03 Beta/25, | Windows XP Service Pack 1 build 2600 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TheBat or Pocomail
Hello S, What is 'better': The Bat! or Pocomail? Becky. Anyway, this is an honest question Then the answer is Outlook Express. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v2.01.3 Winamp PLAYING: Norman Brown - Night Drive (Smoothjazz.com - The world's best Smooth Jazz - Live from Monterey, Calif.) Current version is 2.02.3 CE | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TheBat or Pocomail
Friday, 1/2/2004, 4:16 PM Hi Matt, On Fri, 2 Jan 2004, at 15:00:22 [GMT -0800] (which was 3:00 PM where I live) you wrote about: 'TheBat or Pocomail' MT I've used TB! for a few years and decided to try Pocomail a few weeks MT ago. After creating all the filters and folders (painstakingly I might MT add) I promptly switched back after about 48 hours. TB! has it's MT quirks but it is so much easier to work with! I missed the editor, the MT F9 for headers, the extensive filtering capabilities...the list goes MT on. It's hard to explain but I'm more into the technical aspects of MT software and TB just feels better. :) I'm sure others can MT relate... I can relate to that. I began using TB during the 1.32 Beta cycle. I registered it after about 4 hours of use. For the most part I have been very happy with TB. I am not fickle about software clients, I don't change at the drop of a hat. The security and filter functions of TB are the main reasons I have stayed with it. I don't give a whit about HTML, IMAP, PGP or the ability to synchronize with my cell phone or the satellite radio in my Durango. I just want it to handle my 12 pop3 accounts, even if I have to leave town for 2 months. But, here lately with the new beta cycle, I'm no longer sure. The memory spikes, finding ALL of my mail in the inbox or the junk folder. I don't know what has happened with the filtering. Sometimes they work and other times it is like they don't exist. The memory spiking seems to be better in beta 25, but in the next one, Rit will most likely add another new feature, and it will spike again. All I can say is Poco looks a lot better than it did when I checked it out a couple of years ago. Time will tell whether I stay with TB or jump. I rambled on but that is my .02. -- Your communication is greatly appreciated, Paul Everyone has to believe in something; I believe I'll have another beer. Powered by The Bat! v2.03 Beta/25 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.02.3 CE | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
