Re: [Therion] Magnetic declination

[Olly Betts via Therion]

On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 05:57:26PM +0100, Radek via Therion wrote:
> Here's more accurate
> 
> https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag-web/#declination

That uses the same model as Therion does, so I can't see why it should
be more accurate (unless you're using a version of therion more than a
year old, as before https://github.com/therion/therion/pull/52 Therion
calculated the fraction of the year to use in a slightly odd way, though
even then the difference is tiny if you're specifying a full date).

Also, if you look up values by hand and specify them explicitly to
therion you are hard coding the answers for the current version of the
IGRF model.  But each generation of the IGRF model is necessarily
predictive for dates after it was issued and is only declared to be
definitive for dates more than 5 years before it was issued.  So each
new generation of the model can change the declination figures reported
for the last 10 years compared to the previous generation (and the new
answers should be expected to be better).

As Xavier suggests, the table of reported declinations in the log is for
the start of each year, but declinations used for surveys are calculated
for the actual survey dates.

Maybe this needs making clearer somehow, as this isn't the first time
this summary table has led someone to think that the declination was
only being calculated for the start of each year:

https://mailman.speleo.sk/pipermail/therion/2017-February/006241.html

Cheers,
Olly
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Re: [Therion] How to include hand calculated cave length in legend?

[Martin KERN via Therion]

Hi Rodrigo,

You manage to resolve your problem?
Another solution is to use command . Here you can write what
you want.

Martin K.

Le 2 mars 2018 à 13:30:15, therion-requ...@speleo.sk (
therion-requ...@speleo.sk) a écrit:

How to include hand calculated cave length in
legend?
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Re: [Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Sorry: You may NOT need to define map in first level survey to export it.

Martin S.

> 2. 3. 2018 v 17:35, Martin Sluka via Therion :
> 
> You may need to define map in first level survey to export it.

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Re: [Therion] Magnetic declination

[Xavier Pennec via Therion]

If I remember correctly, the declination is displayed on the log file 
for the beginning of all the years for which you have some survey data, 
but it is interpolated in between these measurements with the exact date 
for each survey environment where you provided a date.


Xavier

Le 02-Mar-18 à 17:22, Martin KERN via Therion a écrit :

Thanks for your reply Ladislav.

I know that but the automatic declination is calculated for the first 
januray of the year which is enter, not for the exact date.

It's not a probleme for the accuracy of the survey ?

Martin K.

Le 2 mars 2018 17:05, "Ladislav Blažek" > a écrit :


Hi,

declination should be calculated automatically based on the survey
date.
Declination parameter is for manual correction.

\LB

2. 3. 2018 v 16:29, Martin KERN via Therion >:


Quick question concerning the magnetic declination.

How you indicate it?

Just by entering the date or with the command ?

Because when I just specify the date, the declination which is
calculate is for the first January, even if I specify another
month in the centreline (e.g. 28.08.2017). Consequently,
centreline is slightly offset that if I enter the real
declination for the date.

I don’t know if this shift is important for survey accuracy or if
I can ignore it ?

Thanks and sorry for all my questions.

Martin K.


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--

-
Xavier Pennec
Senior Research Scientist / Directeur de recherche
Asclepios project-team, INRIA Sophia-Antipolis
2004 Route des Lucioles, BP93
F-06902 Sophia-Antipolis Cedex, France
+33 4 92 38 76 64
+33 6 78 35 16 90
http://www-sop.inria.fr/asclepios/
---


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Re: [Therion] Magnetic declination

[Henry.Bennett--- via Therion]

The variation throughout the year is fairly minimal and I don’t believe it is 
statistically relevant to worry about the data collection month.

Henry

From: Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Martin KERN via 
Therion
Sent: 02 March 2018 16:22
To: Ladislav Blažek 
Cc: Martin KERN ; List for Therion users 

Subject: Re: [Therion] Magnetic declination

Thanks for your reply Ladislav.

I know that but the automatic declination is calculated for the first januray 
of the year which is enter, not for the exact date.
It's not a probleme for the accuracy of the survey ?

Martin K.

Le 2 mars 2018 17:05, "Ladislav Blažek" 
> a écrit :
Hi,

declination should be calculated automatically based on the survey date.
Declination parameter is for manual correction.
\LB

2. 3. 2018 v 16:29, Martin KERN via Therion 
>:
Quick question concerning the magnetic declination.
How you indicate it?
Just by entering the date or with the command ?
Because when I just specify the date, the declination which is calculate is for 
the first January, even if I specify another month in the centreline (e.g. 
28.08.2017). Consequently, centreline is slightly offset that if I enter the 
real declination for the date.
I don’t know if this shift is important for survey accuracy or if I can ignore 
it ?

Thanks and sorry for all my questions.
Martin K.

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Re: [Therion] Magnetic declination

[Radek via Therion]

Here's more accurate





https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag-web/#declination





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Re: [Therion] Magnetic declination

[Martin KERN via Therion]

Thanks for your reply Ladislav.

I know that but the automatic declination is calculated for the first
januray of the year which is enter, not for the exact date.
It's not a probleme for the accuracy of the survey ?

Martin K.

Le 2 mars 2018 17:05, "Ladislav Blažek"  a écrit :

> Hi,
>
> declination should be calculated automatically based on the survey date.
> Declination parameter is for manual correction.
>
> \LB
>
> 2. 3. 2018 v 16:29, Martin KERN via Therion :
>
> Quick question concerning the magnetic declination.
>
> How you indicate it?
>
> Just by entering the date or with the command ?
>
> Because when I just specify the date, the declination which is calculate
> is for the first January, even if I specify another month in the centreline
> (e.g. 28.08.2017). Consequently, centreline is slightly offset that if I
> enter the real declination for the date.
>
> I don’t know if this shift is important for survey accuracy or if I can
> ignore it ?
>
>
>
> Thanks and sorry for all my questions.
>
> Martin K.
>
> ___
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>
>
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[Therion] Line steps -attr c 4

[Nick Bairstow via Therion]

I'm having to draw some walkway grills and a couple of flights of stairs and 
have just found the -aatr c (number) option to be used with line steps to 
create any number of stair treads you desire.

Fantastic I thought but the command only seems to work if there are even 
numbers of line points in the polygon. If you have an odd number of points then 
your polygon is rendered as a red outline, which to be honest I think could 
potentially be quite useful for strange man made features.

I like this so I thought I'd share.

https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/drawingchecklist  details under Man made 
structures.

Nick

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[Therion] Magnetic declination

[Martin KERN via Therion]

Quick question concerning the magnetic declination.

How you indicate it?

Just by entering the date or with the command ?

Because when I just specify the date, the declination which is calculate is
for the first January, even if I specify another month in the centreline
(e.g. 28.08.2017). Consequently, centreline is slightly offset that if I
enter the real declination for the date.

I don’t know if this shift is important for survey accuracy or if I can
ignore it ?



Thanks and sorry for all my questions.

Martin K.
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Re: [Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index

[Nick Bairstow via Therion]

Martin, thank you for explaining that clearly, it seems I may have been over 
complicating things.

It would though, be nice to understand how the -station-names whoodoo works if 
only for future reference. I have found some stuff on the Wiki but nothing that 
makes any sense to me.

Our data set has only been one level so far and with hindsight we should have 
done things very differently but at the start of the learning process you can 
not always see that. Anyway this week we have two levels of data working with 
the latest stuff so a step forward I think.

I keep looking at the older stuff and thinking about redoing it to organise it 
better but then think well it all works, so lets not bother and go for a beer.

Nick

From: Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Martin Sluka via 
Therion
Sent: 02 March 2018 11:10
To: List for Therion users 
Cc: Martin Sluka 
Subject: Re: [Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index

Nick,

first off all, Therion is able to work only with unique informations which are 
in a survey/endsurvey wrapper.


It means, if you define map outside of the survey/endsurvey wrapper in .th file 
there must be another higher level survey/endsurvey wrapper which will cover 
all information Therion needs and which you define as source in .thconfig.


My way is to use for first level surveys (log of one survey trip) definitions 
of map(s) inside survey/endsurvey wrapper as I include particular .th2 file 
there too. So in this survey/endsurvey wrapper are all informations including 
scrap drawings. In higher level I simply "input" .th file, which means the 
survey/endsurvey wrapper of higher level has access to all necessary data 
without -station-names woodoo.


When I want to define a higher level map I must use scrap_name@survey_name, not 
only scrap_name. Etc.


Martin S.

On Mar 02, 2018, at 11:01 AM, Nick Bairstow via Therion 
> wrote:
OK as is normally the case with these things I spotted the error within five 
minutes of asking for help, but it has raised a another question.
My problem was quite simply I had no survey/end survey wrapper. I have been 
using this index file for over two years and never noticed however it has 
worked perfectly and produced what I needed.

I now ask why did the index.th compile OK with the other 18 surveys listed in 
it.

The only difference between the first 18 surveys and the last non-working one 
was that in each scrap of the 18 previous surveys I used the option 
-station-names “” “@surveyname”. I was shown this when I started learning 
Therion but never really new why. When using this option to make any survey.th 
compile I have to make sure the map/endmap is outside the survey/endsurvey 
wrapper.

With the my latest survey file I did not use the scrap option and just went 
with the “normal way” with everything in survey.th within the survey/endsurvey 
and then the index .th failed due to having no survey/endsurvey wrapper.
Clearly I do not yet fully understand the process even though I can make things 
work, so lots more reading I think. Does anyone know of a good explanation 
somewhere, most thing I read I find a little confusing.

Also if someone would like to explain the
-station-names “” “@surveyname” bit I would be very grateful.

I suspect I’m not the only one to have struggled with this.

Thanks for the previous answers guys.


Nick

From: Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Bruce Mutton via 
Therion
Sent: 01 March 2018 19:23
To: 'List for Therion users' >
Cc: Bruce Mutton >
Subject: Re: [Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index

Nick
I’m guessing you have created a map that contains the survey only for your new 
cave, and a map which contains scraps or maps for your other caves.
I do this intentionally while I am drawing up a new  piece of passage, then 
remove the survey map once I am finished.
Bruce

From: Therion > On 
Behalf Of Nick Bairstow via Therion
Sent: Friday, 2 March 2018 7:38 AM
To: List for Therion users >
Cc: Nick Bairstow >
Subject: [Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index

I have just added a small cave to my main index .th. Everything compiles but 
the pdf shows the new cave as shots and splays not as the normal walls etc you 
would expect in a map. All other caves display correctly as intended.
Has anyone point out what I am doing wrong.

Nick

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Re: [Therion] How to include hand calculated cave length in legend?

[Andrew Atkinson via Therion]

You can override it using  TeX

\cavelength

Lots of detail on

*https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/tex *

*Andrew*

On 2 Mar 2018 12:20, "Rodrigo Severo via Therion"  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> I want to include in the legend box a cave length I calculated using a
> method different from Therion's automatic one.
>
> How can I do it?
>
> Let's say I would like to include "Desenvolvimento linear: 178 m" just
> above the Depth info in the legend?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Rodrigo Severo
>
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[Therion] How to include hand calculated cave length in legend?

[Rodrigo Severo via Therion]

Hi,


I want to include in the legend box a cave length I calculated using a
method different from Therion's automatic one.

How can I do it?

Let's say I would like to include "Desenvolvimento linear: 178 m" just
above the Depth info in the legend?


Regards,

Rodrigo Severo
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Re: [Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index

[Martin Sluka via Therion]

Nick,

first off all, Therion is able to work only with unique informations which are 
in a survey/endsurvey wrapper.

It means, if you define map outside of the survey/endsurvey wrapper in .th file 
there must be another higher level survey/endsurvey wrapper which will cover 
all information Therion needs and which you define as source in .thconfig.

My way is to use for first level surveys (log of one survey trip) definitions of map(s) 
inside survey/endsurvey wrapper as I include particular .th2 file there too. So in this 
survey/endsurvey wrapper are all informations including scrap drawings. In higher level I 
simply "input" .th file, which means the survey/endsurvey wrapper of higher 
level has access to all necessary data without -station-names woodoo.

When I want to define a higher level map I must use scrap_name@survey_name, not 
only scrap_name. Etc.

Martin S.

On Mar 02, 2018, at 11:01 AM, Nick Bairstow via Therion  
wrote:

OK as is normally the case with these things I spotted the error within five 
minutes of asking for help, but it has raised a another question.
My problem was quite simply I had no survey/end survey wrapper. I have been 
using this index file for over two years and never noticed however it has 
worked perfectly and produced what I needed.
 
I now ask why did the index.th compile OK with the other 18 surveys listed in 
it.
 
The only difference between the first 18 surveys and the last non-working one 
was that in each scrap of the 18 previous surveys I used the option 
-station-names “” “@surveyname”. I was shown this when I started learning 
Therion but never really new why. When using this option to make any survey.th 
compile I have to make sure the map/endmap is outside the survey/endsurvey 
wrapper.
 
With the my latest survey file I did not use the scrap option and just went 
with the “normal way” with everything in survey.th within the survey/endsurvey 
and then the index .th failed due to having no survey/endsurvey wrapper.
Clearly I do not yet fully understand the process even though I can make things 
work, so lots more reading I think. Does anyone know of a good explanation 
somewhere, most thing I read I find a little confusing.
 
Also if someone would like to explain the
-station-names “” “@surveyname” bit I would be very grateful.
 
I suspect I’m not the only one to have struggled with this.
 
Thanks for the previous answers guys.
 
 
Nick
 
From: Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Bruce Mutton via 
Therion
Sent: 01 March 2018 19:23
To: 'List for Therion users' 
Cc: Bruce Mutton 
Subject: Re: [Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index
 
Nick
I’m guessing you have created a map that contains the survey only for your new 
cave, and a map which contains scraps or maps for your other caves.
I do this intentionally while I am drawing up a new  piece of passage, then 
remove the survey map once I am finished.
Bruce
 
From: Therion  On Behalf Of Nick Bairstow via Therion
Sent: Friday, 2 March 2018 7:38 AM
To: List for Therion users 
Cc: Nick Bairstow 
Subject: [Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index
 
I have just added a small cave to my main index .th. Everything compiles but 
the pdf shows the new cave as shots and splays not as the normal walls etc you 
would expect in a map. All other caves display correctly as intended.
Has anyone point out what I am doing wrong.
 
Nick    
 
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Re: [Therion] xTherion translation: what does "MRR" means?

[Rodrigo Severo via Therion]

2018-03-01 23:32 GMT-03:00 Martin Sluka via Therion :

> But blood alcohol concentration is critical factor to use xtherion! ;)
>

Yes, it sure is :)


Rodrigo
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Re: [Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index

[Nick Bairstow via Therion]

OK as is normally the case with these things I spotted the error within five 
minutes of asking for help, but it has raised a another question.
My problem was quite simply I had no survey/end survey wrapper. I have been 
using this index file for over two years and never noticed however it has 
worked perfectly and produced what I needed.

I now ask why did the index.th compile OK with the other 18 surveys listed in 
it.

The only difference between the first 18 surveys and the last non-working one 
was that in each scrap of the 18 previous surveys I used the option 
-station-names "" "@surveyname". I was shown this when I started learning 
Therion but never really new why. When using this option to make any survey.th 
compile I have to make sure the map/endmap is outside the survey/endsurvey 
wrapper.

With the my latest survey file I did not use the scrap option and just went 
with the "normal way" with everything in survey.th within the survey/endsurvey 
and then the index .th failed due to having no survey/endsurvey wrapper.
Clearly I do not yet fully understand the process even though I can make things 
work, so lots more reading I think. Does anyone know of a good explanation 
somewhere, most thing I read I find a little confusing.

Also if someone would like to explain the
-station-names "" "@surveyname" bit I would be very grateful.

I suspect I'm not the only one to have struggled with this.

Thanks for the previous answers guys.


Nick

From: Therion [mailto:therion-boun...@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Bruce Mutton via 
Therion
Sent: 01 March 2018 19:23
To: 'List for Therion users' 
Cc: Bruce Mutton 
Subject: Re: [Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index

Nick
I'm guessing you have created a map that contains the survey only for your new 
cave, and a map which contains scraps or maps for your other caves.
I do this intentionally while I am drawing up a new  piece of passage, then 
remove the survey map once I am finished.
Bruce

From: Therion > On 
Behalf Of Nick Bairstow via Therion
Sent: Friday, 2 March 2018 7:38 AM
To: List for Therion users >
Cc: Nick Bairstow >
Subject: [Therion] Error When Adding A new Cave to Master Index

I have just added a small cave to my main index .th. Everything compiles but 
the pdf shows the new cave as shots and splays not as the normal walls etc you 
would expect in a map. All other caves display correctly as intended.
Has anyone point out what I am doing wrong.

Nick

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