Re: [tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[PMario]

On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 6:49:34 AM UTC+1, Mark S. wrote: 

>   It would be interesting to know what features caused the 4x increase in 
> the core, despite dropping support for Jquery.
>

Basically we traded size for convenience and configurability. 

With TWclassic, you have 5 main tiddlers, that define the whole UI. 
PageTemplate, ViewTemplate,  EditTemplate and 2 bigger StyleSheet tiddlers. 

Whenever you want to change something there, you'll need to overwrite the 
core tiddlers. 
 - This makes updating much more complicated, than today.
 - If you make a small mistake, you'll completely mess up your UI, to a 
degree, where it is unusable.

TW5 has configuration parameters, for most of the changes, that where 
common in TWc. eg: most button visibilities are configurable now. 
ControlPanel alone has ~30 pages. 

emptyTW5.html has: 

 - 227 config tiddlers, that are active by default. 
 - 10+ ViewTemplate related tiddlers
 - 12+ EditTemplate related tiddlers
 - 9+ PageTemplate related tiddlers
 - 1000+ $:/language/ related tiddlers. Those where hardcoded in TWc and 
made translations hard and error prone

So it's basically convenience UI based functions, which increase empty.html 
size.

IMO we could squeeze out about 50% of the size, without loosing end-user 
conveninece but *at the cost of maintainability*. This gives us ~ 1MByte. 
... The win, will be lost, when a user includes the 1st jpg-image, to 
customize the TW background.

So in the end we just lost maintainablility ... and IMO that's not worth it!

---

jQuery was initially needed, to level out browser incompatibilities. It's 
success showed all browser vendors, what's really important for developers, 
and how and where to focus on "web" / browser improvements. ... 
Implementing the new specification and development patterns needed time. 
But now most of the stuff,  that jQuery invented, is part of current web 
standards, which makes jQuery itself "kind of" obsolete. ... 

have fun!
mario

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Re: [tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

It's unfortunately true that developers often think in terms of state of 
the art technology.  It would be interesting to know what features caused 
the 4x increase in the core, despite dropping support for Jquery.

-- Mark

On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 8:44:07 AM UTC-8, vayira wrote:
>
> The bloat is to do with file size. The TW 2.8.1 with 294 tiddlers that I 
> have built up over years takes up only 585k, but an empty TW 5.1 uses 2M. 
> So I'm not going to migrate my day to day TW at all, but I am experimenting 
> with it for a new project, which I was thinking of putting online, but over 
> 2M makes it very slow to download. It is cool to use, but is a huge file. 
>
> On 25 December 2017 at 00:01, TonyM  
> wrote:
>
>> Fyi
>>
>> No bloat in tw5 in my view,
>>
>> I maintain my twc in TiddlyDesktop and links open in the default browser.
>>
>> Rather than upgrade I am moving from a monolithic twc to multiple tw5s 
>> with a high degree of intergration. The tw5 wikis run in the latest FF with 
>> local host or IP address using TiddlyServer as host and directory to file 
>> and node JS implementations with no saving issues.
>>
>> In tw5 there are many features you needed plugins for in twc now in the 
>> core, there is also much more customisation in an empty tw5 than twc with 
>> plugins.
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>
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>

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Re: [tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[TonyM]

Fyi

My old twc has 8000 Tiddlers at 17mb and I expect tw5 to perform better. True 
this is local access single file only without auto save.

Tony

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Re: [tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[PMario]

On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 5:44:07 PM UTC+1, vayira wrote:
>
> The bloat is to do with file size. The TW 2.8.1 with 294 tiddlers that I 
> have built up over years takes up only 585k, but an empty TW 5.1 uses 2M. 
> So I'm not going to migrate my day to day TW at all, but I am experimenting 
> with it for a new project, which I was thinking of putting online, but over 
> 2M makes it very slow to download. It is cool to use, but is a huge file. 
>

If you use a decent hosting service, the servers will compress the file, 
befor sending it over the wire. 

So empty.htm will be about 2MByte plain text, but 300k sent over the net. 
... 

Compared to 1 image of a modern smartphone, which has about 4 MByte, TW is 
nothing, and JPEGs can't be compressed  

just my 2 cents
mario

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Re: [tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Vayira]

The bloat is to do with file size. The TW 2.8.1 with 294 tiddlers that I
have built up over years takes up only 585k, but an empty TW 5.1 uses 2M.
So I'm not going to migrate my day to day TW at all, but I am experimenting
with it for a new project, which I was thinking of putting online, but over
2M makes it very slow to download. It is cool to use, but is a huge file.

On 25 December 2017 at 00:01, TonyM  wrote:

> Fyi
>
> No bloat in tw5 in my view,
>
> I maintain my twc in TiddlyDesktop and links open in the default browser.
>
> Rather than upgrade I am moving from a monolithic twc to multiple tw5s
> with a high degree of intergration. The tw5 wikis run in the latest FF with
> local host or IP address using TiddlyServer as host and directory to file
> and node JS implementations with no saving issues.
>
> In tw5 there are many features you needed plugins for in twc now in the
> core, there is also much more customisation in an empty tw5 than twc with
> plugins.
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[TonyM]

Fyi

No bloat in tw5 in my view,

I maintain my twc in TiddlyDesktop and links open in the default browser. 

Rather than upgrade I am moving from a monolithic twc to multiple tw5s with a 
high degree of intergration. The tw5 wikis run in the latest FF with local host 
or IP address using TiddlyServer as host and directory to file and node JS 
implementations with no saving issues.

In tw5 there are many features you needed plugins for in twc now in the core, 
there is also much more customisation in an empty tw5 than twc with plugins.

Regards
Tony

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

On windows you can use links (junctions) to trick the browser into thinking 
your folder is below the downloads folder. I imagine you can do the same 
with symbolic links on Linux.

-- Mark

On Sunday, December 24, 2017 at 7:13:01 AM UTC-8, vayira wrote:
>
> Thanks Tony. 
>
> I've downloaded TiddlyDesktop-linux64-v0.0.9 in case it's needed but I'd 
> rather have TW in my main browser because I have a lot of external links in 
> the wiki. I kind of use it instead of bookmarks. 
>
> My experiences of upgrades & "improvements" is that 90% of it is bloat & 
> those features which I liked so much are no more so I'm hyper conservative 
> about upgrading. Almost never do I feel my experience is improved. 
>
> Where can I get info about TiddlySaver? 
> I can find *savetiddlers - Browser plugin* but it looks basic. I keep my 
> TW on dropbox so having to use the download directory isn't very good. 
>
>
>
> On Saturday, 23 December 2017 19:43:35 UTC-4, TonyM wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>> Vayira,
>>>
>>
>> If you keep putting off the inevitable need to upgrade you may very well 
>> face problems sooner or later. There is however plenty of options available 
>> now, some which have considerable advantages. 
>>
>> With all due respect Schedule some time in for some maintenance and 
>> learning, this is needed every decade or so :)
>>
>> Of course it can vary by operating system.
>>
>> I would recommend TiddlyDesktop to handle both classic and TW5 on one 
>> computer. TiddlySaver or Marios Saver with backup are great options as 
>> well. I use TiddlyServer for access to File and NodeJS versions from the 
>> LAN, and other network devices.
>>
>> I am investigating the beaker browser version but it is a little on the 
>> beta side.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Tony
>>
>

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Re: [tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Birthe C]

I understand, but using Tiddlywiki in the Sky for Dropbox saves your wiki 
to your dropbox. Other saving options needs you to use a folder under your 
download folder.

Birthe

Den søndag den 24. december 2017 kl. 17.08.29 UTC+1 skrev vayira:
>
> But dropbox is just a folder on all my hard drives so I don't need a 
> special app or anything to use it. Been doing it for years. The only issue 
> that concerns me is if save stops working in my browser. 
>
>
>

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Re: [tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Vayira]

But dropbox is just a folder on all my hard drives so I don't need a
special app or anything to use it. Been doing it for years. The only issue
that concerns me is if save stops working in my browser.

On 24 December 2017 at 12:04, Birthe C  wrote:

> I think you will like https://twcloud.github.io/dropbox/# You can read
> about that and all the opther saving options here https://tiddlywiki.com/#
> GettingStarted.
>
> Birthe
>
> Den søndag den 24. december 2017 kl. 16.13.01 UTC+1 skrev vayira:
>>
>> Thanks Tony.
>>
>>  keep my TW on dropbox so having to use the download directory isn't very
>> good.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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> .
>
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>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Birthe C]

I think you will like https://twcloud.github.io/dropbox/# You can read 
about that and all the opther saving options here 
https://tiddlywiki.com/#GettingStarted. 

Birthe

Den søndag den 24. december 2017 kl. 16.13.01 UTC+1 skrev vayira:
>
> Thanks Tony. 
>
>  keep my TW on dropbox so having to use the download directory isn't very 
> good. 
>
>
>
>
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[vayira]

Thanks Tony. 

I've downloaded TiddlyDesktop-linux64-v0.0.9 in case it's needed but I'd 
rather have TW in my main browser because I have a lot of external links in 
the wiki. I kind of use it instead of bookmarks. 

My experiences of upgrades & "improvements" is that 90% of it is bloat & 
those features which I liked so much are no more so I'm hyper conservative 
about upgrading. Almost never do I feel my experience is improved. 

Where can I get info about TiddlySaver? 
I can find *savetiddlers - Browser plugin* but it looks basic. I keep my TW 
on dropbox so having to use the download directory isn't very good. 



On Saturday, 23 December 2017 19:43:35 UTC-4, TonyM wrote:
>
>  
>
>> Vayira,
>>
>
> If you keep putting off the inevitable need to upgrade you may very well 
> face problems sooner or later. There is however plenty of options available 
> now, some which have considerable advantages. 
>
> With all due respect Schedule some time in for some maintenance and 
> learning, this is needed every decade or so :)
>
> Of course it can vary by operating system.
>
> I would recommend TiddlyDesktop to handle both classic and TW5 on one 
> computer. TiddlySaver or Marios Saver with backup are great options as 
> well. I use TiddlyServer for access to File and NodeJS versions from the 
> LAN, and other network devices.
>
> I am investigating the beaker browser version but it is a little on the 
> beta side.
>
> Best wishes
> Tony
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Birthe C]

I am using Linux Mint too and has been updated to Firefox 57.1
I think you should look into some of the other saving options, do not rely 
on tiddlyfox, at least not for long. If tiddlyfox works for you right now, 
you need to avoid updating Firefox.

Birthe

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[vayira]

Somehow FFox updated itself to 55.0.2 which seems to be the latest version 
for linux mint. 

TW saving stopped working but I imported to classic version 2.8.1 and 
tiddly fox started working again which I'm very happy about. 

I was expecting to have more problems. 

Can I expect to have problems saving again in the near future? 

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[FrD]

Hi PMario,

I'm using an encrypted TW on dropbox and it saves without problem with your 
plugin.

FrD

Le lundi 4 décembre 2017 14:25:18 UTC+1, PMario a écrit :
>
> On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 4:09:48 AM UTC+1, tony wrote:
>>
>> Thank you very much Mario 
>>
>
> :)
>  
>
>> for me it restores the old datestamped backup feature in the old TW 
>> classic 
>>
>
> Almost. ... I did use LessBackupsPlugin for all of my TWclassic's ... But 
> it could be confusing. eg: 1 backup for every hour. So it gave us max 24 
> files. But one day I did edit something at 15:00 and the other day at 16:00 
> .. Now we have 2 backups that seem to be 1 hour in between. But in reality 
> it was a day or even days ... 
>  
>
>> Tested for a few days and so far so good on low memory Firefox =< v 
>> 57.0.1 Quantum
>>
>> I've been having issues of data loss with encrypted TW5 files using 
>> TiddlyFox, TiddlyChrome and TiddlyServer
>>
>
> Honestly, ... I didn't even test it with encrypted TWs. I'll have to have 
> a closer look. 
>
> Thank you for the reminder!
>
> thx
> mario
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[PMario]

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 4:09:48 AM UTC+1, tony wrote:
>
> Thank you very much Mario 
>

:)
 

> for me it restores the old datestamped backup feature in the old TW 
> classic 
>

Almost. ... I did use LessBackupsPlugin for all of my TWclassic's ... But 
it could be confusing. eg: 1 backup for every hour. So it gave us max 24 
files. But one day I did edit something at 15:00 and the other day at 16:00 
.. Now we have 2 backups that seem to be 1 hour in between. But in reality 
it was a day or even days ... 
 

> Tested for a few days and so far so good on low memory Firefox =< v 57.0.1 
> Quantum
>
> I've been having issues of data loss with encrypted TW5 files using 
> TiddlyFox, TiddlyChrome and TiddlyServer
>

Honestly, ... I didn't even test it with encrypted TWs. I'll have to have a 
closer look. 

Thank you for the reminder!

thx
mario

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[tony]

Thank you very much Mario 

Just wanted to give a shout out for ease of backups with

file-backups: https://github.com/pmario/file-backups for firefox...  chrome 
> version is planned.
>

for me it restores the old datestamped backup feature in the old TW classic 

Tested for a few days and so far so good on low memory Firefox =< v 57.0.1 
Quantum

I've been having issues of data loss with encrypted TW5 files using 
TiddlyFox, TiddlyChrome and TiddlyServer

all of the above saver tools worked fine with unencrypted TW5 files but 
once I encrypt in TW5 I would occasionally get a save issue where the file 
size drops down to 0-100 kb and will not open.

now at least there are rolling backups i can revert to!

Best,
tony

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[TonyM]

Mark,

In all my years of using Portable apps (perhaps even 20 years) off and On I 
have never seen malware. Once you install it running a scan against it 
should be insightful as many people use it and most virus programs know 
these files, most of which are the same as the original just packaged to be 
portable.

ie PortableApps.com is my source.

I have a high level of confidence in portableapps.com

Regards
Tony 

On Sunday, 3 December 2017 11:07:11 UTC+11, Mark S. wrote:
>
> But portable apps isn't mozilla, so there's the possibility of malware 
> having been inserted.
>
> On Saturday, December 2, 2017 at 3:35:29 PM UTC-8, Alfonso Arciniega wrote:
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> With FF portable you may also use as many profiles as you want:
>>
>> https://portableapps.com/support/firefox_portable#second_profile
>>
>> There's also FF ESR portable versions in 17 languages if preferred:
>>
>> https://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox-portable-esr
>>
>> I am using portable versions out of an USB at my office for many years 
>> now, due to being prohibited to install anything on my work PC, with no 
>> issues at all.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Alfonso
>>
>> On Friday, December 1, 2017 at 10:52:22 PM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:
>>>
>>> I always wonder whether I can trust the portable apps site.
>>>
>>> Using profiles, a command argument string, and a zip extractor, you can 
>>> run multiple versions of FF. (See 
>>> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1170758) Presumably you 
>>> could run an old version of FF as long as the operating system supports it 
>>> (e.g. it doesn't break when 128 bits OS comes out). Old copies are 
>>> available at https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/. You would 
>>> need to remember not to do any important browsing or commerce on the 
>>> browser. And you would want to load it up with all the special extensions 
>>> it needs before they disappear from Mozilla and/or the net.
>>>
>>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

But portable apps isn't mozilla, so there's the possibility of malware 
having been inserted.

On Saturday, December 2, 2017 at 3:35:29 PM UTC-8, Alfonso Arciniega wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> With FF portable you may also use as many profiles as you want:
>
> https://portableapps.com/support/firefox_portable#second_profile
>
> There's also FF ESR portable versions in 17 languages if preferred:
>
> https://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox-portable-esr
>
> I am using portable versions out of an USB at my office for many years 
> now, due to being prohibited to install anything on my work PC, with no 
> issues at all.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Alfonso
>
> On Friday, December 1, 2017 at 10:52:22 PM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> I always wonder whether I can trust the portable apps site.
>>
>> Using profiles, a command argument string, and a zip extractor, you can 
>> run multiple versions of FF. (See 
>> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1170758) Presumably you 
>> could run an old version of FF as long as the operating system supports it 
>> (e.g. it doesn't break when 128 bits OS comes out). Old copies are 
>> available at https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/. You would 
>> need to remember not to do any important browsing or commerce on the 
>> browser. And you would want to load it up with all the special extensions 
>> it needs before they disappear from Mozilla and/or the net.
>>
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Alfonso Arciniega]

Mark,

With FF portable you may also use as many profiles as you want:

https://portableapps.com/support/firefox_portable#second_profile

There's also FF ESR portable versions in 17 languages if preferred:

https://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox-portable-esr

I am using portable versions out of an USB at my office for many years now, 
due to being prohibited to install anything on my work PC, with no issues 
at all.

Cheers,

Alfonso

On Friday, December 1, 2017 at 10:52:22 PM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:
>
> I always wonder whether I can trust the portable apps site.
>
> Using profiles, a command argument string, and a zip extractor, you can 
> run multiple versions of FF. (See 
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1170758) Presumably you could 
> run an old version of FF as long as the operating system supports it (e.g. 
> it doesn't break when 128 bits OS comes out). Old copies are available at 
> https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/. You would need to remember 
> not to do any important browsing or commerce on the browser. And you would 
> want to load it up with all the special extensions it needs before they 
> disappear from Mozilla and/or the net.
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[PMario]

On Saturday, December 2, 2017 at 3:46:02 AM UTC+1, vayira wrote:
>
> I'm glad I ignored FF's messages about upgrading. I've been using TW 
> classic for so long I can't remember & I run my life from it. But I'm not 
> sure what to do now. 
>
> If I upgrade FF then I'll loose autosave by the looks of things. But will 
> I be able to save at all? I'm using TiddlyWiki (clasic) 2.6.6 
>
> My heart always sinks when I see my favourite software has been 
> "improved". 
>

file-backups: https://github.com/pmario/file-backups for firefox...  chrome 
version is planned.
savetiddlers: https://github.com/buggyj/savetiddlers for firefox and chrome 

Both AddOns support TWclassic. 
-m
 

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[vayira]

Yes. I downloaded the latest version of the classic TW yesterday to check 
it out. At least that gives the option of download type saving on any 
browser in case of emergency. When I have time i'll try to import my 
tiddlers to that. I'm also thinking of trying waterfox, as I'm very used to 
a number of extensions for FF. Such a waste of time all this :-( I have 
other things to do. 

On Saturday, 2 December 2017 00:48:28 UTC-4, TonyM wrote:
>
> Vayira;
>
> Try TiddlyDesktop first, but also consider Getting a Portable Firefox ESR 
> V 52
>
> There are a lot of solutions available and looking in this forum will 
> help, however having a version which is a few steps behind even TWC 
> (classic) could be an issue, have a go at upgrading (a copy)
>
> Otherwise post in the forum for help.
>
> Regards
> Tony 
>
> On Saturday, 2 December 2017 13:46:02 UTC+11, vayira wrote:
>>
>> I'm glad I ignored FF's messages about upgrading. I've been using TW 
>> classic for so long I can't remember & I run my life from it. But I'm not 
>> sure what to do now. 
>>
>> If I upgrade FF then I'll loose autosave by the looks of things. But will 
>> I be able to save at all? I'm using TiddlyWiki (clasic) 2.6.6 
>>
>> My heart always sinks when I see my favourite software has been 
>> "improved". 
>>
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

I always wonder whether I can trust the portable apps site.

Using profiles, a command argument string, and a zip extractor, you can run 
multiple versions of FF. (See 
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1170758) Presumably you could 
run an old version of FF as long as the operating system supports it (e.g. 
it doesn't break when 128 bits OS comes out). Old copies are available at 
https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/. You would need to remember 
not to do any important browsing or commerce on the browser. And you would 
want to load it up with all the special extensions it needs before they 
disappear from Mozilla and/or the net.

-- Mark

 

On Friday, December 1, 2017 at 8:48:28 PM UTC-8, TonyM wrote:
>
> Vayira;
>
> Try TiddlyDesktop first, but also consider Getting a Portable Firefox ESR 
> V 52
>
> There are a lot of solutions available and looking in this forum will 
> help, however having a version which is a few steps behind even TWC 
> (classic) could be an issue, have a go at upgrading (a copy)
>
> Otherwise post in the forum for help.
>
> Regards
> Tony 
>
> On Saturday, 2 December 2017 13:46:02 UTC+11, vayira wrote:
>>
>> I'm glad I ignored FF's messages about upgrading. I've been using TW 
>> classic for so long I can't remember & I run my life from it. But I'm not 
>> sure what to do now. 
>>
>> If I upgrade FF then I'll loose autosave by the looks of things. But will 
>> I be able to save at all? I'm using TiddlyWiki (clasic) 2.6.6 
>>
>> My heart always sinks when I see my favourite software has been 
>> "improved". 
>>
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[TonyM]

Vayira;

Try TiddlyDesktop first, but also consider Getting a Portable Firefox ESR V 
52

There are a lot of solutions available and looking in this forum will help, 
however having a version which is a few steps behind even TWC (classic) 
could be an issue, have a go at upgrading (a copy)

Otherwise post in the forum for help.

Regards
Tony 

On Saturday, 2 December 2017 13:46:02 UTC+11, vayira wrote:
>
> I'm glad I ignored FF's messages about upgrading. I've been using TW 
> classic for so long I can't remember & I run my life from it. But I'm not 
> sure what to do now. 
>
> If I upgrade FF then I'll loose autosave by the looks of things. But will 
> I be able to save at all? I'm using TiddlyWiki (clasic) 2.6.6 
>
> My heart always sinks when I see my favourite software has been 
> "improved". 
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[vayira]

I'm glad I ignored FF's messages about upgrading. I've been using TW 
classic for so long I can't remember & I run my life from it. But I'm not 
sure what to do now. *TiddlyWiki  (clasic 
) 2.6.6*

If I upgrade FF then I'll loose autosave by the looks of things. But will I 
be able to save at all? I'm using TiddlyWiki (clasic) 2.6.6 

My heart always sinks when I see my favourite software has been "improved". 

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[PMario]

On Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 1:29:23 PM UTC+1, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> PMario wrote:
>> The problem is. That it's difficult for newbies to decide what they 
>> should use. Or what they need.  We need to  improve this situation. 
>
>
> An issue is, that julien23 raised, is "what is THE mode" (or maybe TWO). 
>

I do think, the browser AddOn route is still the simplest way we can get. 
Once the addons are registered and reviewed by FF and Chrome, they are 
automatically updated, once we provide a new version ...

There's also an other option, which is worth exploring. ... But it may also 
increase complexity, which is a bad thing. ... So we always have 2 sides of 
a coin :)

-mario

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao TonyM

The one thing you miss, in your otherwise accurate depiction of the 
situation, is julian23's slight standing back from the situation. That is 
VERY valuable to read and absorb IMO.

There IS an issue with complexity now that was there before too but is now 
VERY amplified.

TonyM wrote:

> The future is rosey.
>

YOUR future and MY future DO look rosey. Functionally TW on saving TW is 
saving itself from browsers. Very much to the good!

BUT I'm highly sceptical that applies to a newbie hitting TW right now.  
Its far more likely they perceive a confusing mess and click away.

Best wishes
Josiah
 

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

PMario

Spot on. 

PMario wrote:
> The problem is. That it's difficult for newbies to decide what they should 
> use. Or what they need.  We need to  improve this situation. 


An issue is, that julien23 raised, is "what is THE mode" (or maybe TWO). 

I think D.I.Y. users get used to 17 Options Before Breakfast. 

IMO its a non-starter for newbies.

Better to have ONE or TWO that are known to work cross-platform that are 
ADVERTISED. Advertising 16+ is gonna prove a major turn-off for getting new 
users.

All IMO :-)

Best wishes
Josiah 

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[PMario]

On Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 9:44:20 AM UTC+1, julien23 wrote:
>
> Great to read we have a (too) many temporary solutions left so we'll 
> survive this time again.
>

Why temporary solutions? Most of them are *optional* solutions. It depends 
on your usecase. For me it's nice to have a choice. 

The problem is. That it's difficult for newbies to decide what they should 
use. Or what they need.  We need to  improve this situation.  
 

> But ... let us strip down this discussion to the very basics.
>
> TW was :
>
>- Standalone
>- Multiplatform
>- Futurproof
>- Easy to share
>
> Leaving aside workarounds, we lost it all.
>

That's not true. The only thing we lost, is a little bit of convenience. 
... TiddlyFox is just a convenience option and it can be replaced with: 
file-backups and savetiddlers browser AddOns. 

TiddlyWiki is still 
 - Standalone. ... 1 file, that can handle many of your notes. 
 - Multiplattform ... It runs on any platform, that implemented a decent 
browser. .. eg: My TV can handle it nicely. 
 - Futurproof ... html is still a text format. As long as there are 
programs, that can read text files, we can extract the information. For me 
that IS future proof.
 - Easy to share ... send an file per email is easy, and most users can 
handle it. 
 

> So what is the clear long term plan ?
>
>1. Follow browsers evolution, no extensions needed nor about:config 
>tweaks.
>(download saver ?)
>
> This won't happen anymore. Browser vendors have some valid security 
concerns and no protest whatever will change their opinion. Especially 
since they already did give developers a lot of possibilities to handle 
files. ... Not 100% the same things we had. But ... "close enough" to be 
useful. 

see: 
file-backups: https://github.com/pmario/file-backups for firefox...  chrome 
version is planned.
savetiddlers: https://github.com/buggyj/savetiddlers for firefox and chrome 

for TiddlyFox replacements. 
 

>
>1. 
>2. Not follow browsers and embed TW own viewing/editing application.
>(Tiddly Desktop, Server ?)
>
> There are several options. ... BUT they are not "simple" enough. ... 
Simple = Install ... Click to save !


This said thanks again to developers, and I hope we'll be able to use TW 
> for decades coming !
>

I'm sure, we will :)

have fun!
mario

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[TonyM]

Julian,

i cant agree, it is still 
Standalone or hosted
Multiplatform and device type
Futurproof both internaly and via the community
even Easyer to share

We are just dealing with a transition largely brought about by malware.

The future is rosey.

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[TonyM]

There are plenty of solutions here, to this changg in browser security, 
some which are so close to tiddlyfox its amazing, however for my large TWC 
I use TiddlyDesktop.

I am now moving to TW5 but in a multi-wiki approach.

Regards
Tony


On Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 1:34:00 PM UTC+11, George Jenner wrote:
>
> I have a giant TW Classic I don't want to upgrade, and it was broken 
> yesterday by Firefox upgrading itself (haven't been watching this group for 
> a while, so not warned!).  I've changed to Firefox ESR (version 52) and it 
> works again, and seems that Firefox ESR still gets security upgrades.  Not 
> a long term solution I suppose.
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[George Jenner]

I have a giant TW Classic I don't want to upgrade, and it was broken 
yesterday by Firefox upgrading itself (haven't been watching this group for 
a while, so not warned!).  I've changed to Firefox ESR (version 52) and it 
works again, and seems that Firefox ESR still gets security upgrades.  Not 
a long term solution I suppose.

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[MarkPea]

Waterford fits the bill on WIndows 10 as well. Tiddlyfox works a treat and 
saves the TW with no hiccups. The zero faffing solution it seems to me ...

Mark P

On Saturday, November 18, 2017 at 10:38:23 PM UTC-5, James A Bernard wrote:
>
> I'm using Waterfox who intend to keep the plugin structure of Firefox 
> while keeping up-to-date with firefox. The tiddlyfox plugin works well.
> As i use android a lot, for some reason the tiddlyfox doesn't install 
> inWaterfaox on android.
> I am looking for solutions, when I do I'll report back.
> But for now, Waterfox fits the bill (at least on Linux and OSX) :)
>
> On Saturday, 28 October 2017 20:33:51 UTC+11, Norm Davis wrote:
>>
>>
>> Firefox and Tiddly have long been great companions, but Firefox is going 
>> sideways and the old Firefox Tiddly extension for saving in the new Firefox 
>> 57 doesn't work.  Will there be anyone working on a rewrite or a new 
>> extension?  Hope so!  Thanks for any helpful info.  
>>
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[BJ]

savetiddlers install on ff56. There are two versions of tiddlyfox - version 
2 will not work with android - you need the older version

all the best
BJ

On Sunday, November 19, 2017 at 4:38:23 AM UTC+1, James A Bernard wrote:
>
> I'm using Waterfox who intend to keep the plugin structure of Firefox 
> while keeping up-to-date with firefox. The tiddlyfox plugin works well.
> As i use android a lot, for some reason the tiddlyfox doesn't install 
> inWaterfaox on android.
> I am looking for solutions, when I do I'll report back.
> But for now, Waterfox fits the bill (at least on Linux and OSX) :)
>
> On Saturday, 28 October 2017 20:33:51 UTC+11, Norm Davis wrote:
>>
>>
>> Firefox and Tiddly have long been great companions, but Firefox is going 
>> sideways and the old Firefox Tiddly extension for saving in the new Firefox 
>> 57 doesn't work.  Will there be anyone working on a rewrite or a new 
>> extension?  Hope so!  Thanks for any helpful info.  
>>
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[James A Bernard]

I'm using Waterfox who intend to keep the plugin structure of Firefox while 
keeping up-to-date with firefox. The tiddlyfox plugin works well.
As i use android a lot, for some reason the tiddlyfox doesn't install 
inWaterfaox on android.
I am looking for solutions, when I do I'll report back.
But for now, Waterfox fits the bill (at least on Linux and OSX) :)

On Saturday, 28 October 2017 20:33:51 UTC+11, Norm Davis wrote:
>
>
> Firefox and Tiddly have long been great companions, but Firefox is going 
> sideways and the old Firefox Tiddly extension for saving in the new Firefox 
> 57 doesn't work.  Will there be anyone working on a rewrite or a new 
> extension?  Hope so!  Thanks for any helpful info.  
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Platykurtic]

If you plan on using the savetiddlers add-in/extension & wish to use your 
existing TiddlyWiki central directory (I have a notes directory that I use 
for all my TiddlyWikis) then I recommend that you use the mklink command to 
create the tiddlywikilocations directory. By using a hard junction link 
from the original directory to tiddlywikilocations one can backup your 
tiddly wikis into Dropbox, Box, Google Drive etc. To establish the junction 
link run cmd.exe with administrator priviledges & enter the following 
command in Windows (adjusted for your directories' locations obviously.)

mklink /J "C:\Users\\Downloads\tiddlywikilocations" 
"C:\Users\\Dropbox\TiddlyWiki_Notes"

This will create the tiddlywikilocations directory (for user ) & saves 
of the various TiddlyWikis will now point back to the TiddlyWiki_Notes 
directory where (in this example) Dropbox will do it's thing. Of course one 
should 'open' the TiddlyWiki from the tiddlywikilocations directory (which 
will in fact open it from the TiddlyWiki_Notes directory.) Once this is 
set-up everything more or less runs similar to the old TiddlyFox add-in but 
with the new (and awesome) Firefox v57.

On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 2:56:14 PM UTC+1, dazel...@gmail.com 
wrote:
>
> I found tiddly-saver here: 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/9984ShVVbbA and it 
> works quite well.
> Only negative point is that it requires a dedikated place to store the 
> TiddlyWiki.
>
> Am Samstag, 28. Oktober 2017 11:33:51 UTC+2 schrieb Norm Davis:
>>
>>
>> Firefox and Tiddly have long been great companions, but Firefox is going 
>> sideways and the old Firefox Tiddly extension for saving in the new Firefox 
>> 57 doesn't work.  Will there be anyone working on a rewrite or a new 
>> extension?  Hope so!  Thanks for any helpful info.  
>>
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[dazeller86]

I found tiddly-saver here: 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/9984ShVVbbA and it works 
quite well.
Only negative point is that it requires a dedikated place to store the 
TiddlyWiki.

Am Samstag, 28. Oktober 2017 11:33:51 UTC+2 schrieb Norm Davis:
>
>
> Firefox and Tiddly have long been great companions, but Firefox is going 
> sideways and the old Firefox Tiddly extension for saving in the new Firefox 
> 57 doesn't work.  Will there be anyone working on a rewrite or a new 
> extension?  Hope so!  Thanks for any helpful info.  
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[PMario]

On Saturday, October 28, 2017 at 11:33:51 AM UTC+2, Norm Davis wrote:
>
>
> Firefox and Tiddly have long been great companions, but Firefox is going 
> sideways and the old Firefox Tiddly extension for saving in the new Firefox 
> 57 doesn't work.  Will there be anyone working on a rewrite or a new 
> extension?  Hope so!  Thanks for any helpful info.  
>

See this thread: 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/h0k7z62N79Y
And this repo:https://github.com/pmario/file-backups

have fun!
mario

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Conner Phillips]

Does this offer hope of tiddlyfox working again with some preference 
tweaking?

http://www.morbo.org/2017/11/linux-sandboxing-improvements-in.html

On Saturday, November 11, 2017 at 4:47:49 PM UTC+1, BJ wrote:
>
> I briefly did a search and could not find a statement saying they plan on 
> not following firefox. 
>
> There was mention of switching to 52 ESR for the time being, here
>
>
> https://blog.seamonkey-project.org/2017/05/02/the-state-of-the-seamonkey-union/
>
> On Saturday, November 11, 2017 at 1:21:20 PM UTC+1, Davïd wrote:
>>
>> As I understand it, Seamonkey is going to continue to allow "legacy" 
>> extensions/addons.
>>
>> I tried "auto-converting" the Tiddlyfox addon using this tool:
>>
>> http://addonconverter.fotokraina.com/
>>
>> While the resulting XPI "installed" no problem, there wasn't a 
>> functioning tiddly-save-thing.
>>
>> However, this might simply be a matter of getting the Tiddlyfox icon to 
>> show up on the right bit of Seamonkey's chrome. I'm not sure. But for 
>> someone who knows what they're doing (I don't), converting "Tiddlyfox" to 
>> "TIddlymonkey" (or whatever!) could be low hanging fruit, and extend the 
>> life of this valuable addon.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> On Saturday, 28 October 2017 10:33:51 UTC+1, Norm Davis wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Firefox and Tiddly have long been great companions, but Firefox is going 
>>> sideways and the old Firefox Tiddly extension for saving in the new Firefox 
>>> 57 doesn't work.  Will there be anyone working on a rewrite or a new 
>>> extension?  Hope so!  Thanks for any helpful info.  
>>>
>>
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Davïd]

As I understand it, Seamonkey is going to continue to allow "legacy" 
extensions/addons.

I tried "auto-converting" the Tiddlyfox addon using this tool:

http://addonconverter.fotokraina.com/

While the resulting XPI "installed" no problem, there wasn't a functioning 
tiddly-save-thing.

However, this might simply be a matter of getting the Tiddlyfox icon to 
show up on the right bit of Seamonkey's chrome. I'm not sure. But for 
someone who knows what they're doing (I don't), converting "Tiddlyfox" to 
"TIddlymonkey" (or whatever!) could be low hanging fruit, and extend the 
life of this valuable addon.

Any thoughts?

On Saturday, 28 October 2017 10:33:51 UTC+1, Norm Davis wrote:
>
>
> Firefox and Tiddly have long been great companions, but Firefox is going 
> sideways and the old Firefox Tiddly extension for saving in the new Firefox 
> 57 doesn't work.  Will there be anyone working on a rewrite or a new 
> extension?  Hope so!  Thanks for any helpful info.  
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[springer]

Thanks, Mark. I found that thread afterwards.

On Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 11:49:21 AM UTC-5, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Wrong thread ;-)
>
> There's another thread going about tiddlyspot. Apparently it's down, but 
> nothing to do with FF or plugins.
>
> Mark
>
> On Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 8:26:34 AM UTC-8, springer wrote:
>>
>> After 12 years of using my tiddlyspot-hosted sites regularly, tiddlyspot 
>> is suddenly not accepting updates this week (the "uploading changes..." 
>> process hangs indefinitely). My files still get served up for reading 
>> purposes, but with no new edits.
>>
>>
>>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Wrong thread ;-)

There's another thread going about tiddlyspot. Apparently it's down, but 
nothing to do with FF or plugins.

Mark

On Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 8:26:34 AM UTC-8, springer wrote:
>
> After 12 years of using my tiddlyspot-hosted sites regularly, tiddlyspot 
> is suddenly not accepting updates this week (the "uploading changes..." 
> process hangs indefinitely). My files still get served up for reading 
> purposes, but with no new edits.
>
>
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[springer]

After 12 years of using my tiddlyspot-hosted sites regularly, tiddlyspot is 
suddenly not accepting updates this week (the "uploading changes..." 
process hangs indefinitely). My files still get served up for reading 
purposes, but with no new edits.

Do any of you know what's going on?? 

Importantly, I have NOT updated to FF57, and plan to resist for as long as 
I possibly can, since server-hosted TiddlyWiki (and also HackTheWeb) are 
integral to my Firefox workflow, every single day (!)...

Any recommendations? Are Tiddlyspot users stranded?

In hopes...


On Saturday, October 28, 2017 at 5:33:51 AM UTC-4, Norm Davis wrote:
>
>
> Firefox and Tiddly have long been great companions, but Firefox is going 
> sideways and the old Firefox Tiddly extension for saving in the new Firefox 
> 57 doesn't work.  Will there be anyone working on a rewrite or a new 
> extension?  Hope so!  Thanks for any helpful info.  
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Eric Shulman]

On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 4:39:17 AM UTC-8, Schorschi wrote:
>
> I'm using TiddlyWiki classic. When I save an edited TiddlyWiki file using 
> the browser's Ctrl-S shortcut, then close, then reopen the file, I get a 
> message that the file “has been incorrectly saved“. 


Simply put, you must NEVER use the browser's Ctrl-S shortcut.  It does not 
save the TiddlyWiki Classic file correctly because it is saving the current 
"runtime" page content, which is dynamically generated at load time from 
the original TW saved file content.  These are not the same.  You must 
ALWAYS use the TW-provided "save changes" link from the sidebar.
 

> This happens in Firefox (56.0.1) and Chrome (62.0.3202.62). 
>
What am I doing wrong and/or how can I prevent or rectify the duplication 
> of backstage links and areas?


Unfortunately, the current versions of Firefox and Chrome no longer support 
the "local file I/O" functions that TiddlyWiki Classic makes use of.  If 
you are using the last revision of TiddlyWiki Classic (v2.8.1), then it 
includes a version of the "download saver", which DOES still work, by using 
the brower's "download a file" mechanism to save the file, even if you are 
working on a locally-stored file.

Unless you are heavily-invested in using TiddlyWiki Classic, then I 
strongly encourage you to switch to using TiddlyWiki5 (the current release 
of TiddlyWiki), which ALSO provides the built-in "download saver" process, 
but is still actively maintained, and has numerous other methods for 
saving, depending upon your browser and system configuration.

To migrate your content from TWClassic to TW5, first open 
http://tiddlywiki.com/empty.html

Then, drag your current TWClassic file onto the opened TW5 instance.  When 
the green "drop here" bar appears at the top of the page, drop your file.  
You should then be prompted to "import" the tiddlers from the TWClassic 
file into the TW5 instance.  Press the "import" button, and all of your 
tiddlers will be added to the open TW5.  You can then use the "save 
changes" icon in the sidebar (the circled checkmark) to invoke the TW5 
"download saver" to get a local copy of the TW5 with all your content 
tiddlers.

Note that there is significant differences in the syntax of tiddlers 
between TWClassic and TW5, and you will have to manually convert each 
tiddler to the new syntax, which can be a tedious (and somewhat 
error-prone) process.  Also note that TWC does NOT support old TWClassic 
plugins, none of your installed customizations will work, even after 
converting your content to TW5 format... but at least your *content* can be 
"rescued".

Sorry for the bad news.  Hope this helps.

enjoy,
-e
Eric Shulman
TiddlyTools.com: "Small Tools for Big Ideas" (tm)
InsideTiddlyWiki: The Missing Manuals

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Schorschi]

I'm using TiddlyWiki classic. When I save an edited TiddlyWiki file using the 
browser's Ctrl-S shortcut, then close, then reopen the file, I get a message 
that the file “has been incorrectly saved“. The backstage link is then 
duplicated at the top of the page. When I edit that page, save again (using 
browser's Ctrl-S), close and reopen, I get that error message again and now 
have three backstage links at the top of the page, though only one of these, 
the bottommost, works. However, when I click on the working link I get three 
sets of backstage menus. 

This happens in Firefox (56.0.1) and Chrome (62.0.3202.62).

I suspect that each time I save a new TiddlyWiki file using the browser's save 
command a new instance of the backstage link and area will be added to the 
newly saved file. Obviously, that is unacceptable.

What am I doing wrong and/or how can I prevent or rectify the duplication of 
backstage links and areas?

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Egbert]

Ah okay, thanks Mark

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Egbert]

Hi Eric, re your post:"Alternatively, I can let the browser automatically 
add the "(n)" suffix to the current filename". Can you just briefly 
indicate how this is done in Firefox and Chrome?

Thanks for the good overview.

Egbert

On Sunday, 29 October 2017 03:17:05 UTC, Eric Shulman wrote:
>
> On Saturday, October 28, 2017 at 7:47:48 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
>>
>> Firefox is going sideways and the old Firefox Tiddly extension for saving 
>>> in the new Firefox 57 doesn't work.
>>>
>> With Firefox 57, sharing a TW is officially dead, unless you only want to 
>> share with savvy users who can be persuaded to install Pale Moon (plus an 
>> extension) or TiddlyServer (yikes).
>>
>
> I realize that many people seem to have an aversion to using the TWCore 
> built-in "download saver" but it DOES work... on nearly ALL browsers.  
> Sure... it's not a "one click to save" solution, but with a few simple 
> settings, it is actually quite useful.  For example, I use Chrome.  I can 
> set the "download location" (Settings > Advanced > Download) to "Ask where 
> to save each file before downloading".  When saving for the first time, I 
> can select the folder containing my single-file TiddlyWiki.  That folder 
> location is remembered and re-used for later saving.
>
> While I am working on changes, I can save at any time, selecting the 
> currently opened filename (e.g., "myfile.html") and it will prompt to 
> confirm overwrite (ok/cancel).  Alternatively, I can let the browser 
> automatically add the "(n)" suffix to the current filename, effectively 
> creating "checkpoints" while I work, and then remove the suffix to 
> overwrite the original file only when I am satisfied with all my changes.  
> If a reload is needed to load changes to plugin code, I can save and then 
> open the most recent checkpoint file in another tab, allowing me to verify 
> that the changes are loading correctly, and continue working with the newly 
> changed code.  When I am certain of the changes, I can then save again, 
> overwriting the original file.
>
> I also use the "download saver" when trying out new things.  I just open 
> http://tiddlywiki.com/empty.html, create a few "test" tiddlers, and then 
> save the changes to a local file, where I can continue as above and I 
> use the same procedure to try out other posted TWs, regardless of hosting.  
> I simply visit the URL, and 'save changes' to download a copy, and then 
> continue with the locally-saved copy.
>
> If I am saving to TiddlySpot, I can set the URL and password (using the 
> built-in TW setup), and then use "save changes" to upload the file.  To 
> revert to local saving, I just clear the TiddlySpot URL, and the "save 
> changes" command then saves locally again.
>
> I agree, it's not the MOST elegant process at times, and there are some 
> variations in the setup depending on your browser of choice, but once you 
> have it set, the process is consistent and reliable... and it doesn't 
> require ANY additional  installation of browser plugins, local servers, 
> etc.  It even works on my Android tablet (though you can't change the 
> default download location, so everything is put into the "Downloads" 
> folder) and it's pretty much future-proof against the whims of the browser 
> developers, unless they decide to eliminate downloading altogether (which 
> is highly unlikely).
>
> enjoy,
> -e
> Eric Shulman
> TiddlyTools.com: "Small Tools for Big Ideas" (tm)
> InsideTiddlyWiki: The Missing Manuals
>

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Re: [tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Arlen Beiler]

I believe there is now an option (or will be in 5.1.15) to trigger the
download saver with autosave. But if you tend to keep TiddlyWiki open, then
the download saver is not your best option, since you are tied to one
browser anyway and there are better solutions. But the download saver still
works very well for sharing wikis between users and allows quick edit and
save and dump the file back into an email.

On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 4:45 PM, RichardWilliamSmith <
richardwilliamsm...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Eric,
>
> In my opinion, the problem with relying on the Download Saver for many
> people is the chance of losing work accidentally. It depends, I suppose,
> how one actually uses TW. I tend to have it open all the time for making
> notes and personally, I wouldn't be at all happy to have to manually save
> everything.
>
> Regards,
> Richard
>
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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[RichardWilliamSmith]

Hi Eric,

In my opinion, the problem with relying on the Download Saver for many 
people is the chance of losing work accidentally. It depends, I suppose, 
how one actually uses TW. I tend to have it open all the time for making 
notes and personally, I wouldn't be at all happy to have to manually save 
everything.

Regards,
Richard

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S.

This is the BEST overview I have seen so far on SAVING in TiddlyWiki now.

Josiah

Mark S. wrote:
>
> Here's some links to content and/or discussions re possible solutions:
>
>- Use a different browser (Firefox ESR, Beaker, Pale Moon)
>   - Firefox ESR: 
>   https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/4yyMPH-0hXg
>   - Beaker Browser: https://beakerbrowser.com/
>   - Pale Moon: http://www.palemoon.org/
>- BJ is working on an extension that allows the default save mechanism 
>to work with links
>   - 
>   
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/tiddlywiki/BJ%7Csort:date/tiddlywiki/cw12FCTu3hA/J8gEy8E-AQAJ
>- Arlen has a really good TiddlyServer that can serve single-file TW's 
>or data TW's
>   - https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer
>- Use the default save mechanism, possibly with a launch shell script 
>to make it painless
>   - 
>   
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/tiddlywiki/batch%7Csort:date/tiddlywiki/_0AnexWjjcs/XYJiuco-CgAJ
>- Tiddly Desktop
>   - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/VBi8hqpf-B8
>
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Eric Shulman]

On Saturday, October 28, 2017 at 7:47:48 PM UTC-7, Jon wrote:
>
> Firefox is going sideways and the old Firefox Tiddly extension for saving 
>> in the new Firefox 57 doesn't work.
>>
> With Firefox 57, sharing a TW is officially dead, unless you only want to 
> share with savvy users who can be persuaded to install Pale Moon (plus an 
> extension) or TiddlyServer (yikes).
>

I realize that many people seem to have an aversion to using the TWCore 
built-in "download saver" but it DOES work... on nearly ALL browsers.  
Sure... it's not a "one click to save" solution, but with a few simple 
settings, it is actually quite useful.  For example, I use Chrome.  I can 
set the "download location" (Settings > Advanced > Download) to "Ask where 
to save each file before downloading".  When saving for the first time, I 
can select the folder containing my single-file TiddlyWiki.  That folder 
location is remembered and re-used for later saving.

While I am working on changes, I can save at any time, selecting the 
currently opened filename (e.g., "myfile.html") and it will prompt to 
confirm overwrite (ok/cancel).  Alternatively, I can let the browser 
automatically add the "(n)" suffix to the current filename, effectively 
creating "checkpoints" while I work, and then remove the suffix to 
overwrite the original file only when I am satisfied with all my changes.  
If a reload is needed to load changes to plugin code, I can save and then 
open the most recent checkpoint file in another tab, allowing me to verify 
that the changes are loading correctly, and continue working with the newly 
changed code.  When I am certain of the changes, I can then save again, 
overwriting the original file.

I also use the "download saver" when trying out new things.  I just open 
http://tiddlywiki.com/empty.html, create a few "test" tiddlers, and then 
save the changes to a local file, where I can continue as above and I 
use the same procedure to try out other posted TWs, regardless of hosting.  
I simply visit the URL, and 'save changes' to download a copy, and then 
continue with the locally-saved copy.

If I am saving to TiddlySpot, I can set the URL and password (using the 
built-in TW setup), and then use "save changes" to upload the file.  To 
revert to local saving, I just clear the TiddlySpot URL, and the "save 
changes" command then saves locally again.

I agree, it's not the MOST elegant process at times, and there are some 
variations in the setup depending on your browser of choice, but once you 
have it set, the process is consistent and reliable... and it doesn't 
require ANY additional  installation of browser plugins, local servers, 
etc.  It even works on my Android tablet (though you can't change the 
default download location, so everything is put into the "Downloads" 
folder) and it's pretty much future-proof against the whims of the browser 
developers, unless they decide to eliminate downloading altogether (which 
is highly unlikely).

enjoy,
-e
Eric Shulman
TiddlyTools.com: "Small Tools for Big Ideas" (tm)
InsideTiddlyWiki: The Missing Manuals

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Jon]

>
> Firefox is going sideways and the old Firefox Tiddly extension for saving 
> in the new Firefox 57 doesn't work.
>

Totally sideways. Not sure why Mozilla cares about users who need to be 
protected from themselves. There's IE for that.

With all the change to both TW and browsers over the last couple years, 
many might not have stopped to notice that TW is now *exclusively* a 
*personal* wiki. An incredibly powerful one, true, and I love all my highly 
customized TWs (essentially easy-to-build personal Web apps). But, remember 
when one of the most valuable features of TW was that you could share it by 
just e-mailing a file. With Firefox 57, sharing a TW is officially dead, 
unless you only want to share with savvy users who can be persuaded to 
install Pale Moon (plus an extension) or TiddlyServer (yikes).

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Diego Mesa]

Has Jeremy made any comments on this?

On Saturday, October 28, 2017 at 8:51:11 PM UTC-5, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Here's some links to content and/or discussions re possible solutions:
>
>- Use a different browser (Firefox ESR, Beaker, Pale Moon)
>   - Firefox ESR: 
>   https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/4yyMPH-0hXg
>   - Beaker Browser: https://beakerbrowser.com/
>   - Pale Moon: http://www.palemoon.org/
>- BJ is working on an extension that allows the default save mechanism 
>to work with links
>   - 
>   
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/tiddlywiki/BJ%7Csort:date/tiddlywiki/cw12FCTu3hA/J8gEy8E-AQAJ
>- Arlen has a really good TiddlyServer that can serve single-file TW's 
>or data TW's
>   - https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer
>- Use the default save mechanism, possibly with a launch shell script 
>to make it painless
>   - 
>   
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/tiddlywiki/batch%7Csort:date/tiddlywiki/_0AnexWjjcs/XYJiuco-CgAJ
>- Tiddly Desktop
>   - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/VBi8hqpf-B8
>
>
>
>

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Here's some links to content and/or discussions re possible solutions:

   - Use a different browser (Firefox ESR, Beaker, Pale Moon)
  - Firefox ESR: 
  https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/4yyMPH-0hXg
  - Beaker Browser: https://beakerbrowser.com/
  - Pale Moon: http://www.palemoon.org/
   - BJ is working on an extension that allows the default save mechanism 
   to work with links
  - 
  
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/tiddlywiki/BJ%7Csort:date/tiddlywiki/cw12FCTu3hA/J8gEy8E-AQAJ
   - Arlen has a really good TiddlyServer that can serve single-file TW's 
   or data TW's
  - https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer
   - Use the default save mechanism, possibly with a launch shell script to 
   make it painless
  - 
  
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/tiddlywiki/batch%7Csort:date/tiddlywiki/_0AnexWjjcs/XYJiuco-CgAJ
   - Tiddly Desktop
  - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/VBi8hqpf-B8
   


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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[Eric Shulman]

On Saturday, October 28, 2017 at 5:12:38 PM UTC-7, RichardWilliamSmith 
wrote:
>
> You know, there really ought to be a sticky for this topic. 
>>
> Our ship sails without a captain, it seems.
>

ok.. I just made it sticky ("display at top")

-e
 

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[tw] Re: Tiddly Extension for Firefox 57?

[RichardWilliamSmith]

>
> You know, there really ought to be a sticky for this topic. 
>

Our ship sails without a captain, it seems.

RR 

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