Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[Mohammad]

Thank you Jeremy for clarification!

On Monday, March 16, 2020 at 5:35:57 PM UTC+3:30, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> Hi Mohammad
>
>  With the current top menubar, the print page does shows the top menu bar 
> in every page!
>
>
> Thanks, I’d missed that.
>
> I do not recommend to resolve this issue on its own.
>
>
> I think it has to be solved on its own; all the visual components of a 
> theme need to be aware of printing (and are), there’s no generic way of 
> specifying it in advance.
>
> This will make an organic growth of Tiddlywiki which seems not good!
>
>
> It’s really not a big deal, I just forgot to include print media rules for 
> the toolbar.
>
> I have commented here https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/4352
>
> Also consider the new proposal by yourself on page layout!
>
> I think both page layout and CSS needs an overhaul to consider all of 
> these!
>
>
> It does indeed, and the tricky thing is just figuring out when we’d do it, 
> and how we’d manage backwards compatibility.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> --Mohammad
>
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/12e97c1f-ce23-4b83-812f-ad1f92e38ac4%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/ade79ede-2447-4bc2-931c-adb98f008a4c%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mohammad

>  With the current top menubar, the print page does shows the top menu bar in 
> every page!

Thanks, I’d missed that.

> I do not recommend to resolve this issue on its own.

I think it has to be solved on its own; all the visual components of a theme 
need to be aware of printing (and are), there’s no generic way of specifying it 
in advance.

> This will make an organic growth of Tiddlywiki which seems not good!

It’s really not a big deal, I just forgot to include print media rules for the 
toolbar.

> I have commented here https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/4352 
> 
> 
> Also consider the new proposal by yourself on page layout!
> 
> I think both page layout and CSS needs an overhaul to consider all of these!

It does indeed, and the tricky thing is just figuring out when we’d do it, and 
how we’d manage backwards compatibility.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
> --Mohammad
> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/12e97c1f-ce23-4b83-812f-ad1f92e38ac4%40googlegroups.com
>  
> .

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/86006801-2ADE-41BB-92AD-F217966B8C97%40gmail.com.

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[A Gloom]

Hello Jeremy

 

> The menu bar plugin disables the two core tiddlers that display the top 
> left bar and the top right bar because the core CSS clashes with the menu 
> bar, and the elements themselves are not in the right place in the DOM tree 
> to be part of the menu bar. So instead, there are two optional buttons that 
> contain the buttons from the top left and top right bars.
>

Understood, so I will want this improvement-- I saw the legacy selection 
for righttopbar but didn't see one for left-- but unless I double, triple 
quadepal check things I can easily miss something-- I shall look again.
 

> Thus, if you add the menubar plugin to a wiki that already uses top left 
> bar or top right bar buttons, then you’ll just need to enable those buttons 
> in control button so that they are displayed within the menu bar instead.
>
> Most excellent, appears you fore-planned this implementation : )  Will it 
be part of 5.1.22 or a separate plugin?

 

>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/566db2e0-9cb8-4331-822c-602c933af17a%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi A Gloom

The menu bar plugin disables the two core tiddlers that display the top left 
bar and the top right bar because the core CSS clashes with the menu bar, and 
the elements themselves are not in the right place in the DOM tree to be part 
of the menu bar. So instead, there are two optional buttons that contain the 
buttons from the top left and top right bars.

Thus, if you add the menubar plugin to a wiki that already uses top left bar or 
top right bar buttons, then you’ll just need to enable those buttons in control 
button so that they are displayed within the menu bar instead.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 14 Mar 2020, at 10:32, A Gloom  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> this is for both TopRightBar & TopLeftBar in pre-release
> 
> does this mean than when I upgrade to 5.1.22 that is will disable any 
> previous customized TopRightBar & TopLeftBar shadow tiddlers?
> 
> I assume I would have to enter the content of my custom top bars into the new 
> Menubar plugin
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/7dc250c6-52ac-4f26-a231-b26d3ab3b67f%40googlegroups.com
>  
> .

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/9F049702-E98F-40BE-9A05-D48252F9F002%40gmail.com.

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[A Gloom]

Jeremy,
 

> Indeed, the intention with the new plugin is to provide something simple 
> and flexible, and there’s plenty of room for different approaches.
>

My kudos, your plugin should make it easier for users to use the topbar 
especially with it working with the media query for screensize-- topbar 
menus would be great for mobile devices.

I made a TopLeftBar hide/reveal version of the core right sidebar 
hide/reveal button and it resides with the right sidebar hide/reveal button 
in the TopBarMenu div.

The TopBarMenu I also use for streaming audio since streaming audio gets 
interrupted by tiddler closing and sidebar tab switching or sidebar 
hiding-- the TopBarMenu is always visible and won't interrupt a controls 
disabled html audio element there (controls disabled pretty much hides an 
audio element and you end up with a collapsed container div)

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/fad125b5-2733-443a-9ac3-0892135540bb%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[Ton Gerner]

Hi Jeremy,

That should be fixed now (or in a couple of minutes; the site takes 5 
> minutes to rebuild). The problem was that I had browser local storage 
> enabled for the prerelease which messed up some of my testing.
>
> Ha, that explains it. Never thought about that .

And yes it is working now. I see the chevron at it's original position so 
the right aligning is there as well.

Cheers,

Ton

P.S. I totally missed the checkbox for Page Conrol buttons which adds the 
active Page Control buttons. The right way to add buttons for a simple menu 
bar!

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/b5ad4aaa-f81d-46da-a2f5-869c39e66e61%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[Ton Gerner]

Hi Jeremy,

I am using TW only on a desktop PC not on mobile; you have to deal with 
mobile devices as well. That's different.

On Saturday, February 29, 2020 at 4:31:53 PM UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> Hi Ton
>
> We do have several full blown toolbars (Edit, Editor, Page and View 
> toolbar) with complete configuration options via Contropl Panel > 
> Appearance > Toolbars.
>
> Top Left bar and Top Right Bar did not have these complete configuration 
> options and I expexted they would be added at a certain time but that was 
> not true.
>
>
> They don’t get widely used, perhaps because of the lack of responsiveness.
>
> OK 

> Already in the alpha phase of TW5 I experimented with a top toolbar. One 
> of the reasons was to get most the functionality of the sidebar in the top 
> toolbar.
>
> In time it became a full blown toolbar with buttons and dropdown lists 
> that mimic the sidebar functionality and with the same configuration 
> options of the other toolbars see Top_toolbar.png below and /or 
> http://tw5toolbar.tiddlyspot.com/
>
> The new Menu bar misses these configuration options; you can add buttons 
> tagged with $:/tags/TopLeftbar and/or $:/tags/TopRightbar and that's it; 
> there is no possibility to switch them on/off or reorder them.
> So the question is: Why not creating a toolbar based on Top Left Bar / Top 
> Right Bar and the existing structure? Then I can dump my own Top toolbar 
> and concentrate on special buttons ;-)
>
>
> If we’d extended either one to be a full width menu bar then we’d have run 
> into the same problem: it would clash with the other one, and we’d need a 
> strategy to deal with that along the lines of what we do here.
>
> I also wanted to make it easier for end users to create dropdown menu 
> items than it is currently is to create a toolbar button with a dropdown.
>

Yes I see, a simple flexible menu bar for desktop and mobile.

>
> See attached No_sidebar_button.png
>
> On your screenshot the chevron is visible next to the search bar. On my 
> image no chevron is visible (I made a screen shot of the whole menu bar in 
> case you changed the aligning). I tried with Linux Mint 19.3 + Firefox and 
> Chrome. Even an iPad did not show the chevron.
>
>
> Ah, OK, I can duplicate it on iPad and Safari, and will look into it.
>

No idea what's happening; nobody else did complain so I think the chevron 
can be seen with Windows //MaOS /Firefox / Chrome but not with Linux Mint / 
Firefox ?chrom and iPad. Very strange. I am curious what is happening.

>
> * I do miss the added buttons in the Menu Bar Configuration (like in the 4 
>> toolbar configuration tiddlers)
>>
>> Which buttons are you referring to? Perhaps again it might be clearer to 
>> show a screenshot? There is a new “Menu Bar” tab under 
>> Basics/Appearance/Toolbars in Control Panel.
>>
>> I mean the configuration buttons available via Contrl Panel > Appearanmce 
> Toolbars  see Top_toolbar.png
>
>
> Do you mean you’d like to see all the page control buttons available as 
> menu bar items?
>

For a simple menu bar only a few buttons are of importance I think. E.g. 
Home, New tiddler, Save, Control Panel, ... For experienced TW fans no 
problem to add them by adding $:/tags/TopLeftBar / $:/tags/TopRightBar but 
how do newbies it when they can't select buttons the way is done for the 
other toolbars?
Or may be add a few default buttons?
 

>
> ** Like I missed these for Left and Right Top Bar
>>
>>
>> Do you mean that you’d like a UI for enabling and reordering the content 
>> of those bars?
>>
>> Yes, as I wrote above.
>
>
> That might be a good PR for someone?
>

You wrote: "They don’t get widely used" so who is interested? I made my own 
configuration panel and documented it.

> In case of my plugins (Top toolbar, Top menu, Tiddlersbar and combinations 
> of these plugins, see e.g http://tongerner.tiddlyspot.com/ Control Panel 
> > Appearance > Plugin tweaks > Layout tweaks) I made a setting for the Top 
> position of the sticky title. In your case with a dynamic height there must 
> be a smarter solution.
>
>
> I don’t think the situations are all that different: if the content of 
> your topbar wraps to two lines when the screen gets narrow then you’ll also 
> have a dynamic height for the top bar.
>

The content of my topbar does not wrap. So if you decrease the window 
width, my toolbar buttons fall off the screen ;-) But the Top Right Bar 
buttons overlap my Top Left Bar buttons, but that's another problem. As I 
wrote I only use a desktop PC where the problem does not exist (and there 
is a more button).

Cheers,

Ton


> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ton
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> 

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Ton

> On 29 Feb 2020, at 15:31, Jeremy Ruston  wrote:
> 
>> See attached No_sidebar_button.png
>> 
>> On your screenshot the chevron is visible next to the search bar. On my 
>> image no chevron is visible (I made a screen shot of the whole menu bar in 
>> case you changed the aligning). I tried with Linux Mint 19.3 + Firefox and 
>> Chrome. Even an iPad did not show the chevron.
> 
> Ah, OK, I can duplicate it on iPad and Safari, and will look into it.

That should be fixed now (or in a couple of minutes; the site takes 5 minutes 
to rebuild). The problem was that I had browser local storage enabled for the 
prerelease which messed up some of my testing.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/4C2545A8-FC9B-4A1E-A823-E4225D895608%40gmail.com.

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Ton

> We do have several full blown toolbars (Edit, Editor, Page and View toolbar) 
> with complete configuration options via Contropl Panel > Appearance > 
> Toolbars.
> Top Left bar and Top Right Bar did not have these complete configuration 
> options and I expexted they would be added at a certain time but that was not 
> true.

They don’t get widely used, perhaps because of the lack of responsiveness.

> Already in the alpha phase of TW5 I experimented with a top toolbar. One of 
> the reasons was to get most the functionality of the sidebar in the top 
> toolbar.
> In time it became a full blown toolbar with buttons and dropdown lists that 
> mimic the sidebar functionality and with the same configuration options of 
> the other toolbars see Top_toolbar.png below and /or 
> http://tw5toolbar.tiddlyspot.com/
> 
> The new Menu bar misses these configuration options; you can add buttons 
> tagged with $:/tags/TopLeftbar and/or $:/tags/TopRightbar and that's it; 
> there is no possibility to switch them on/off or reorder them.
> So the question is: Why not creating a toolbar based on Top Left Bar / Top 
> Right Bar and the existing structure? Then I can dump my own Top toolbar and 
> concentrate on special buttons ;-)

If we’d extended either one to be a full width menu bar then we’d have run into 
the same problem: it would clash with the other one, and we’d need a strategy 
to deal with that along the lines of what we do here.

I also wanted to make it easier for end users to create dropdown menu items 
than it is currently is to create a toolbar button with a dropdown.

> See attached No_sidebar_button.png
> 
> On your screenshot the chevron is visible next to the search bar. On my image 
> no chevron is visible (I made a screen shot of the whole menu bar in case you 
> changed the aligning). I tried with Linux Mint 19.3 + Firefox and Chrome. 
> Even an iPad did not show the chevron.

Ah, OK, I can duplicate it on iPad and Safari, and will look into it.

>> * I do miss the added buttons in the Menu Bar Configuration (like in the 4 
>> toolbar configuration tiddlers)
> 
> Which buttons are you referring to? Perhaps again it might be clearer to show 
> a screenshot? There is a new “Menu Bar” tab under Basics/Appearance/Toolbars 
> in Control Panel.
> 
> I mean the configuration buttons available via Contrl Panel > Appearanmce 
> Toolbars  see Top_toolbar.png

Do you mean you’d like to see all the page control buttons available as menu 
bar items?

>> ** Like I missed these for Left and Right Top Bar
> 
> Do you mean that you’d like a UI for enabling and reordering the content of 
> those bars?
> 
> Yes, as I wrote above.

That might be a good PR for someone?

> In case of my plugins (Top toolbar, Top menu, Tiddlersbar and combinations of 
> these plugins, see e.g http://tongerner.tiddlyspot.com/ 
>  Control Panel > Appearance > Plugin tweaks 
> > Layout tweaks) I made a setting for the Top position of the sticky title. 
> In your case with a dynamic height there must be a smarter solution.

I don’t think the situations are all that different: if the content of your 
topbar wraps to two lines when the screen gets narrow then you’ll also have a 
dynamic height for the top bar.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ton
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/bf913fed-a76b-4f88-ba4b-e1a3ee87de88%40googlegroups.com
>  
> .
> 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/72EB93A4-EB11-4B9B-AC14-AD31FF503B62%40gmail.com.

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[BurningTreeC]

>
> On 29 Feb 2020, at 12:16, BurningTreeC  > wrote:
>
> Can't we just set the top value of the titles to something like 25px 
> through a plugin stylesheet?
>
>
> Yes, that’s one solution, but the trouble is that the height of the 
> menubar is actually dynamic (e.g. it can wrap to two lines), and so I’m 
> trying to find a dynamic approach. We do already have a cunning technique 
> for allowing for the top menu when navigating (search 
> for tc-adjust-top-of-scroll).
>

Yes, I was thinking about a tc-adjust-top-of-scroll option but can't 
imagine a mechanism 

>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/56812284-f109-40e4-8f3d-21bea064300f%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[Jeremy Ruston]

> On 29 Feb 2020, at 12:16, BurningTreeC  wrote:
> 
> Can't we just set the top value of the titles to something like 25px through 
> a plugin stylesheet?

Yes, that’s one solution, but the trouble is that the height of the menubar is 
actually dynamic (e.g. it can wrap to two lines), and so I’m trying to find a 
dynamic approach. We do already have a cunning technique for allowing for the 
top menu when navigating (search for tc-adjust-top-of-scroll).

Best wishes

Jeremy.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/70B8F214-9D80-44A7-8294-FE5DC49D5395%40gmail.com.

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi A Gloom

> On 29 Feb 2020, at 04:09, A Gloom  wrote:
> 
> >.< now you make it after I prefected my topbar : D but good idea m/ I'm 
> >confident will have something that will help my design >> << (you should 
> >understand-- I did it my way and ain't abandoning it so quickly after all 
> >the time n effort and accomplishment achieved by figuring it out myself)
> 
> (my topbar is now much better than what was shown in screenshots and the 
> video I'm making of the RagsGrimoire in action (screenshots don't portray its 
> features and function adequately) )

Indeed, the intention with the new plugin is to provide something simple and 
flexible, and there’s plenty of room for different approaches.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/f38fec32-a625-443c-9a48-d5d9f2c34411%40googlegroups.com
>  
> .

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/85DBB3A8-2890-4743-93CB-E50E8ED3F602%40gmail.com.

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi David

> Yes. I saw your reply to Tony. My interest is not in having a number like 
> zero, just the ability to hide the topbar when I don't want it. 

At the moment you can hide the topbar by removing all the menu items, or 
disabling/removing the plugin.

Best wishes

Jeremy


>> 
>> 6. The topbar color should have its own line in the palette editor, for 
>> customizability.
> 
> In order for the menu bar colours to appear in the palette editor by default 
> we’d have to define those colours in the standard core palettes, which is 
> somewhat inconsistent with the fact that the menu bar is packaged as a 
> plugin. In general, plugins should be independent of the core, and we try to 
> avoid shipping components of plugins as part of the core.
> 
> So, since we don’t want to add colour entries to the core for every plugin 
> that might want to introduce new ones, the present situation is that the 
> colours fallback to values in the plugin (see 
> https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/commit/4afde5a722afc91c826305800ba536c5fe8ef2e5
>  
> ),
>  but can be defined in the palette editor by adding the entries 
> menubar-foreground and menubar-background to the current palette.
> 
> Okay. 
> 
>> 7. Way to go, nice new feature for TW. 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy
> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 10:41:39 AM UTC-6, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>> I’ve committed the first version of a new “Menu Bar” plugin, and would 
>> welcome thoughts and feedback.
>> 
>> The main features are:
>> 
>> * Supports simple links and dropdowns
>> * Includes a built-in dropdown search box and a table of contents dropdown
>> * Menu items may be individually enabled/disabled
>> * Snaps down to a dropdown hamburger menu if the screen/window is narrower 
>> than a preset breakpoint
>> * Incorporates any items from the core top left/right menu bars (e.g. the 
>> sidebar chevron)
>> 
>> You can try it out on the prerelease:
>> 
>> https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/ 
>> 
>> There are still a few minor issues:
>> 
>> * The menubar overlaps the title when the window is narrow enough to show 
>> the sidebar above the story river
>> * It doesn’t work with sticky titles
>> 
>> I’ve enabled the menubar on the prerelease so that people can try it out. 
>> But a bigger question is whether we should enable it by default on 
>> tiddlywiki.com , and if so with what items?
>> 
>> I’m well aware that there is plenty of prior work in this area, and this 
>> plugin isn’t trying to replace all of those existing solutions. It’s an 
>> attempt to make the simplest thing that is responsive and works with 
>> dropdowns.
>> 
>> Feedback and questions are welcome,
>> 
>> Best wishes
>> 
>> Jeremy.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "TiddlyWiki" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com <>.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/6209fdc9-9122-4c7f-8c2c-ada1752e2c30%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> .
> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/0ae8cdfa-a124-4763-b21d-8a8d0c4753f0%40googlegroups.com
>  
> .

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/8B671EAA-A108-4B9F-B4DB-0A727321DF3A%40gmail.com.

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tony

> Here my ignorance is exposed but highlights a need to document such 
> possibilities and "how to" for common or garden users.

Indeed, it would be good to have more of that material in the docs.

> If there is a class name or style sheet entry great, but a configurable value 
> as an option would be helpful.

We already provide user interfaces for some common CSS options (everything in 
the Theme Tweaks tab of control panel is a UI for customising the core CSS). 
But we can’t provide UIs for every possibility, at best we can identify the 
most universal requirements and embody them as UIs.

> There are many sites now using single line fixed menus and simply being able 
> to set a fixed height at the top would help many (although not all cases) 
> with or without the menu bar plugin.

Sorry for the confusion. I’m trying to develop a more dynamic solution than 
using a simple fixed numerical height.

> Can we have content in the menu bar that remains, without 
> collapsing into the hamburger, eg site title? this is valuable space on a 
> mobile.
> Yes, just add a menu item with the field "show-when” set to “narrow”.
> 
> Great, this show-when is specific to your plugin?, could this be generalised?

I don’t quite understand. In general, we use CSS media queries to change how 
things appear depending on the screen size. The subtlety of the menu bar 
implementation is that it renders two entirely separate menu bars, one for 
narrow screens and one for wide screens, and switched between them dynamically 
using CSS.

> I am thinking of a macro or widget for easy use since all user may want to 
> introduce them, and the select widget is a little different. My own work with 
> these showed me it can be a little complex, although I am fine now it seems 
> hard to empower others to use them.

A macro to make it easier to create dropdowns could certainly be useful.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
> Thanks
> Tony
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/eeb3f5fd-d67a-41e4-bfa5-dc967e9522cd%40googlegroups.com
>  
> .

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/41E6DE4B-5F95-4F25-893D-4068D812CA95%40gmail.com.

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[David Gifford]

See my replies in* ITALIC NUMBERS*

On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 3:16:27 PM UTC-6, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> Hi David
>
> 1. Yet again, Facebook is the inspiration for TiddlyWiki design and color 
> choices. The transformation will be complete when we change the name to 
> something that starts with F and put a white F to the left of the search 
> bar. :-)
>
>
> :) 
>
> The toolbar is actually the standard TW5 blue colour that we use for links.
>
> 2. Another possible option for the topbar to offer in the configuration 
> menu to consider: link(s) to the default tiddler(s). Turned off by default 
> but there as an option for users.
>
>
> The “Home” button can be added to the menu bar by enabling the “page 
> control buttons”.
>

*Ah, gotcha. Home = default tiddlers. Should have thought of that *

>
> 3. Since TW detects scrunched mobile screens, and since key sidebar items 
> can go in the topbar, could we finally hide the sidebar automatically for 
> mobile? I find it frustrating that one's default tiddler is not the first 
> thing a visitor sees on a small device, so on my pages I routinely hide the 
> sidebar. Maybe that is worth considering by default for tiddlywiki.com.
>
>
> That is indeed my intention.
>

*Ya *

>
> 4. I hope the stickies situation can be fixed. Love me my stickies and 
> even use them in edittemplate...
>
>
> Yes indeed, I’m investigating solutions.
>
> 5. Like Tony, I would like the customizability option to set this to zero 
> to hide it if needed.
>
>
> Set what to zero? The height of the menu bar?
>

*Yes. I saw your reply to Tony. My interest is not in having a number like 
zero, just the ability to hide the topbar when I don't want it. *

>
> 6. The topbar color should have its own line in the palette editor, for 
> customizability.
>
>
> In order for the menu bar colours to appear in the palette editor by 
> default we’d have to define those colours in the standard core palettes, 
> which is somewhat inconsistent with the fact that the menu bar is packaged 
> as a plugin. In general, plugins should be independent of the core, and we 
> try to avoid shipping components of plugins as part of the core.
>
> So, since we don’t want to add colour entries to the core for every plugin 
> that might want to introduce new ones, the present situation is that the 
> colours fallback to values in the plugin (see 
> https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/commit/4afde5a722afc91c826305800ba536c5fe8ef2e5),
>  
> but can be defined in the palette editor by adding the entries 
> menubar-foreground and menubar-background to the current palette.
>

*Okay. *

>
> 7. Way to go, nice new feature for TW. 
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>
> On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 10:41:39 AM UTC-6, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>
>> I’ve committed the first version of a new “Menu Bar” plugin, and would 
>> welcome thoughts and feedback.
>>
>> The main features are:
>>
>> * Supports simple links and dropdowns
>> * Includes a built-in dropdown search box and a table of contents dropdown
>> * Menu items may be individually enabled/disabled
>> * Snaps down to a dropdown hamburger menu if the screen/window is 
>> narrower than a preset breakpoint
>> * Incorporates any items from the core top left/right menu bars (e.g. the 
>> sidebar chevron)
>>
>> You can try it out on the prerelease:
>>
>> https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/
>>
>> There are still a few minor issues:
>>
>> * The menubar overlaps the title when the window is narrow enough to show 
>> the sidebar above the story river
>> * It doesn’t work with sticky titles
>>
>> I’ve enabled the menubar on the prerelease so that people can try it out. 
>> But a bigger question is whether we should enable it by default on 
>> tiddlywiki.com, and if so with what items?
>>
>> I’m well aware that there is plenty of prior work in this area, and this 
>> plugin isn’t trying to replace all of those existing solutions. It’s an 
>> attempt to make the simplest thing that is responsive and works with 
>> dropdowns.
>>
>> Feedback and questions are welcome,
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Jeremy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/6209fdc9-9122-4c7f-8c2c-ada1752e2c30%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[TonyM]

Jeremy,

Thanks so much for your rapid response. A few quick replys;

Extra space at the top of the story river can be added in a number of ways 
> via CSS (eg padding-top on the body element). The challenge is that the 
> menu bar can chance in height according to what entries are enabled, and so 
> I’m looking for the best solution that can dynamically respond to changes 
> in the toolbar height, rather than just setting a fixed offset.
>
 
Here my ignorance is exposed but highlights a need to document such 
possibilities and "how to" for common or garden users. If there is a class 
name or style sheet entry great, but a configurable value as an option 
would be helpful. There are many sites now using single line fixed menus 
and simply being able to set a fixed height at the top would help many 
(although not all cases) with or without the menu bar plugin.
 

>
> Not entirely. The core is constrained to innovate carefully because of 
> backwards compatibility, until we decide to make an update that breaks 
> compatibility. In the meantime, 
>

understood
 

> innovation in TW page layouts can be found in the work of Thomas, Riz and 
> others.
>
 
OK 

> Can we have content in the menu bar that remains, without 
> collapsing into the hamburger, eg site title? this is valuable space on a 
> mobile.

Yes, just add a menu item with the field "show-when” set to “narrow”.
>

Great, this show-when is specific to your plugin?, could this be 
generalised?
 

>
>- A Dropdown menu option would be a nice reusable element we can use 
>elsewhere, eg in toolbars, tiddlers. 
>
> The dropdowns are the same standard ones as we use elsewhere in TW5.
>

I am thinking of a macro or widget for easy use since all user may want to 
introduce them, and the select widget is a little different. My own work 
with these showed me it can be a little complex, although I am fine now it 
seems hard to empower others to use them.

Thanks
Tony

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/eeb3f5fd-d67a-41e4-bfa5-dc967e9522cd%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi David

> 1. Yet again, Facebook is the inspiration for TiddlyWiki design and color 
> choices. The transformation will be complete when we change the name to 
> something that starts with F and put a white F to the left of the search bar. 
> :-)

:) 

The toolbar is actually the standard TW5 blue colour that we use for links.

> 2. Another possible option for the topbar to offer in the configuration menu 
> to consider: link(s) to the default tiddler(s). Turned off by default but 
> there as an option for users.

The “Home” button can be added to the menu bar by enabling the “page control 
buttons”.

> 3. Since TW detects scrunched mobile screens, and since key sidebar items can 
> go in the topbar, could we finally hide the sidebar automatically for mobile? 
> I find it frustrating that one's default tiddler is not the first thing a 
> visitor sees on a small device, so on my pages I routinely hide the sidebar. 
> Maybe that is worth considering by default for tiddlywiki.com.

That is indeed my intention.

> 4. I hope the stickies situation can be fixed. Love me my stickies and even 
> use them in edittemplate...

Yes indeed, I’m investigating solutions.

> 5. Like Tony, I would like the customizability option to set this to zero to 
> hide it if needed.

Set what to zero? The height of the menu bar?
> 
> 6. The topbar color should have its own line in the palette editor, for 
> customizability.

In order for the menu bar colours to appear in the palette editor by default 
we’d have to define those colours in the standard core palettes, which is 
somewhat inconsistent with the fact that the menu bar is packaged as a plugin. 
In general, plugins should be independent of the core, and we try to avoid 
shipping components of plugins as part of the core.

So, since we don’t want to add colour entries to the core for every plugin that 
might want to introduce new ones, the present situation is that the colours 
fallback to values in the plugin (see 
https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/commit/4afde5a722afc91c826305800ba536c5fe8ef2e5
 
),
 but can be defined in the palette editor by adding the entries 
menubar-foreground and menubar-background to the current palette.

> 7. Way to go, nice new feature for TW. 

Thanks!

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
> 
> On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 10:41:39 AM UTC-6, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
> I’ve committed the first version of a new “Menu Bar” plugin, and would 
> welcome thoughts and feedback.
> 
> The main features are:
> 
> * Supports simple links and dropdowns
> * Includes a built-in dropdown search box and a table of contents dropdown
> * Menu items may be individually enabled/disabled
> * Snaps down to a dropdown hamburger menu if the screen/window is narrower 
> than a preset breakpoint
> * Incorporates any items from the core top left/right menu bars (e.g. the 
> sidebar chevron)
> 
> You can try it out on the prerelease:
> 
> https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/ 
> 
> There are still a few minor issues:
> 
> * The menubar overlaps the title when the window is narrow enough to show the 
> sidebar above the story river
> * It doesn’t work with sticky titles
> 
> I’ve enabled the menubar on the prerelease so that people can try it out. But 
> a bigger question is whether we should enable it by default on tiddlywiki.com 
> , and if so with what items?
> 
> I’m well aware that there is plenty of prior work in this area, and this 
> plugin isn’t trying to replace all of those existing solutions. It’s an 
> attempt to make the simplest thing that is responsive and works with 
> dropdowns.
> 
> Feedback and questions are welcome,
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/6209fdc9-9122-4c7f-8c2c-ada1752e2c30%40googlegroups.com
>  
> .

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/61BDBAEF-21E2-4CF2-841A-7A042E7F372B%40gmail.com.

Re: [tw5] Announcing new "Menu Bar" plugin

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tony


> I have recently being working on both tiddlywiki and other websites and 
> specifically global fixed headers. I also use a site builder which provides 
> some settings tiddlywiki's page layout could do with. For example if we could 
> set the space at the top in or under a heading that will remain fixed so we 
> can introduce menus and tabs including top left and right, above story and 
> other content under which scrolling the story will scroll behind and will be 
> recognised as top of story so once sticky titles work a new top can be set.

Extra space at the top of the story river can be added in a number of ways via 
CSS (eg padding-top on the body element). The challenge is that the menu bar 
can chance in height according to what entries are enabled, and so I’m looking 
for the best solution that can dynamically respond to changes in the toolbar 
height, rather than just setting a fixed offset.

> The issue here is we need your leadership on the page elements and 
> customizability because its a fundamental part of tiddlywiki structure. If we 
> have the design flexibility plugins are less likely to interfere with each 
> other.

Not entirely. The core is constrained to innovate carefully because of 
backwards compatibility, until we decide to make an update that breaks 
compatibility. In the meantime, innovation in TW page layouts can be found in 
the work of Thomas, Riz and others.
> The ability to alter the width of the dropdowns, perhaps a % or a 
> minimum/maximum width
That can be done by CSS, and they are indeed set to a maximum size that’s a 
percentage of the available space.
> The ability to set the dropdowns justification so a right hand top drop down 
> opens left and does not force scroll right
I think the best solution here is that on narrow screens the dropdowns should 
expand to fill nearly all the available space, enabling content scrolling if 
necessary.
> Set new top for sticky titles
See above.
> Can we have content in the menu bar that remains, without collapsing into the 
> hamburger, eg site title? this is valuable space on a mobile.
Yes, just add a menu item with the field "show-when” set to “narrow”.
> A Dropdown menu option would be a nice reusable element we can use elsewhere, 
> eg in toolbars, tiddlers. 
The dropdowns are the same standard ones as we use elsewhere in TW5.

Best wishes

Jeremy

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/459BA1AF-618F-43E5-AD02-C13E82F8AB2A%40gmail.com.