[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[Donald Coates]

This is driving me crazy.  There has to be hidden button or something wth.

On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 10:34:51 AM UTC-4 David Gifford wrote:

> Mark S,
>
> Hmm, can't edit posts anymore. I was going to add for you to keep in mind 
> that I am the guy desperate enough to create ways in Stroll to hide the 
> edit toolbar, tag area, type and field area and even title from the edit 
> template. Maybe that will help you see how important a clean, minimal 
> interface is to me, so take my comments as coming from someone who has 
> those preferences.
>
> On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 7:51:11 AM UTC-5 David Gifford wrote:
>
>> Hi Mark S
>>
>> I had another look, and yes, I had seen the most recent incarnation of 
>> NotoWritey when I posted (if 
>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-outliner.html  is still the 
>> location). I would still stand by my statements:
>>
>> 1) It is similar to Stream: it is an outliner editable in view template 
>> of the parent tiddler, where each node/line/point is its own tiddler that 
>> gets edited from the view template of the parent..
>>
>> 2) Even though it is an outliner, it seems more geared toward writing and 
>> editing larger paragraphs toward longer pieces, than toward rapid 
>> generation of shorter items as in to do lists, tables of contents and 
>> outlines, because of the jarring apparatus that appears around each point 
>> when creating it. This apparatus is distracting when one wants to just 
>> generate a lot of short points or rearrange them. The distraction is both 
>> visual (the cluttered feel I mentioned) and psychologically (lots of 
>> choices present themselves forcefully). The background color of the text 
>> field is dark, making it harder to read what one is writing. #eee would be 
>> a more relaxing option. The hamburger menu at the far left is always 
>> visible, creating another distraction. If there were a way to write but 
>> have the editing apparatus hidden until I ask for it, that would be closer 
>> to a Dynalist feel than NotoWritey is now. As it stands, I would compare it 
>> more to a word processor feel, something useful for writing longer 
>> paragraphs in longer documents. Please don't take the above as negative 
>> comments! They are not. They are just my attempt at explaining why I don't 
>> see NotoWritey as a tool for rapid generation of short points. 
>>
>> 3) Having the editing tools available at each point is powerful, and 
>> despite my reservations in point 2, I really do like NotoWritey. If I were 
>> going to write a manuscript, I would choose NotoWritey over Streams and 
>> probably over any of the other options. Although printing presents an 
>> issue: I would add "Hide left margin icons when printing" to your roadmap, 
>> since I don't see anything like that there. They are visible in print 
>> preview in Firefox. 
>>
>> Kudos, Mark, NotoWritey is a great tool. Sorry if my original post 
>> sounded dismissive, it wasn't meant to be. And I haven't even investigated 
>> all the options in the hamburger menu or the bottom of the editing 
>> apparatus. Lots of power packed into it.
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 10:07:12 PM UTC-5 Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>> NotoWritey is similar to Streams but is geared more toward writing than 
 productivity and outlining. The nodes that open for editing have an 
 editing 
 toolbar, which creates a cluttered feel, but increases functionality when 
 writing a paragraph.

>>>
>>> I'm not sure if by your comment you've seen the latest version of NW, 
>>> which has a Dynalist-like outliner.
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[TW Tones]

Folks,

The value in this thread is all the different reasons someone prefers one 
solution or another or the perceived and actual reasons one may choose one 
over the other. 

Why?

Because this information is what people may ask about any tiddlywiki 
solution, and would serve us well do document these 
"features/preferences/use cases" for future users. Tiddlywiki is after all 
advanced by the many recipes written for it. And new wikis consist of many 
different and alternative ingredients for different outcomes.

Regards
Tony

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[TiddlyTweeter]

*Noto* is very flexible because it gives infinitely changeable *Building 
Blocks*. 
Many types of document can be built with it. I use it a lot and will give 
other examples in time.

Best wishes
TT

On Thursday, 25 June 2020 21:10:58 UTC+2, Birthe C wrote:
>
> TT,
>
> Thank you. It certainly look impressive. You make good use of it for your 
> purpose.
>
> Birthe
>

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[Birthe C]

TT,

Thank you. It certainly look impressive. You make good use of it for your 
purpose.

Birthe

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[TiddlyTweeter]

On Thursday, 25 June 2020 20:04:09 UTC+2, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Done already ... example of 4 Notos in one "document" demo (TWEET BIN) ... 
> https://tidbits.wiki/noto/notoMAKER.html#TWEET%20BIN. Crusoe is over 500 
> entries. It works.
>
> Example of larger items split for a screenplay (MISERY) ... 
> https://tidbits.wiki/noto/notoMAKER.html#MISERY%20PAGINATED (screenplay 
> format experiment) ...
>
> On Thursday, 25 June 2020 18:17:30 UTC+2, Birthe C wrote:
>
> Could you be tricked into writing a NotoWritey about what is splitology? 
>>
>
> A Splitoloy Case is explained for MISERY here: 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/yahnCXVN1UA/4daPkkQmCAAJ
>
> Best wishes
> TT
>

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[TiddlyTweeter]

Done already ... example of 4 Notos in one "document" demo (TWEET BIN) ... 
https://tidbits.wiki/noto/notoMAKER.html#TWEET%20BIN. Cruso is over 500 
entries. It works.

Example of larger items split for a screenplay (MISERY) ... 
https://tidbits.wiki/noto/notoMAKER.html#MISERY%20PAGINATED (screenplay 
format experiment) ...

On Thursday, 25 June 2020 18:17:30 UTC+2, Birthe C wrote:

Could you be tricked into writing a NotoWritey about what is splitology? 
>

A Splitoloy Case is explained for MISERY here: 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/yahnCXVN1UA/4daPkkQmCAAJ

Best wishes
TT

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[Birthe C]

TT,

Could you be tricked into writing a NotoWritey about what is splitology? 
When you use it and how. (examples please?) The most important. 
Difficult to imagine without having an eye on the subject.

That could be of great help for anyone wanting to use NotoWritey. (secure 
the success)

I know you have written about it here in the group, but really I could not 
really understand.
 
Birthe

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[TiddlyTweeter]

 David Gifford wrote:
>
> @TT 
>
> ... clean interface ..
>

Interface is not Marks' greatest strength. But he gives the structure to do 
it. I, currently, most interested in he does It.

Presentation later.

TT 

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[David Gifford]

@TT 

You are right that Noto is agnostic on tiddler size. And I think the tool 
itself is wonderful, as I commented in the post to Mark that you are 
replying to. All I was trying to say is that it is not optimal if what you 
want to do is generate a lot of short items and have a clean interface, 
because of the edit toolbar to the top of a line and the other stuff below 
the line. So in that sense I still feel my statement was correct. But see 
below.

@Birthe

Thank you, I had not seen that setting to hide the editor toolbar. That 
really does make it easier on the eyes. Now if there were a checkbox to 
hide the stuff below the text field, that would make it more optimal for 
the writing phase, then afterwards one could open the tools to do editing, 
formatting, etc. And yes, I recognize Mark has a roadmap and is not done 
with initial development yet. I was just commenting on the current state of 
affairs. Hopefully eventually everything can be clean and hidden, to focus 
on the writing experience, but available when needed for the editing 
experience. Those are two different processes, and the one needs a minimal 
interface and the other needs the bells and whistles visible.

On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 8:53:56 AM UTC-5 TiddlyTweeter wrote:

> David Gifford wrote:
>  
>
>> 2) Even though it is an outliner, it seems more geared toward writing and 
>> editing larger paragraphs toward longer pieces, 
>>
>
> Incorrect. 
>
> Noto is completely AGNOSTIC on Tiddler Size.
>
> In FACT its INBUILT SLICING ("*Splitology*")  is fantastically good, and 
> needed. 
>
>
>You can split anything, recombine & split again at will.
>
> *But you are dead right its  a Writer's Friend. So what else are we doing 
> than that?*
>
> Best wishes
> TT
>

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[David Gifford]

Hi Mark

The link to Streams is https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/streams.html. (the 
thread is entitled " Preview: keyboard driven draggable bullets")

Thanks for the updated link to NotoWritey. I will check to make sure this 
link is in the toolmpa entries for NoteWritey.

On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 8:11:10 AM UTC-5 Mark S. wrote:

>
>
> On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 5:51:11 AM UTC-7, David Gifford wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mark S
>>
>> I had another look, and yes, I had seen the most recent incarnation of 
>> NotoWritey when I posted (if 
>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-outliner.html  is still the 
>> location). I would still stand by my statements:
>>
>> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
>  
>
>> 1) It is similar to Stream: it is an outliner editable in view template 
>> of the parent tiddler, where each node/line/point is its own tiddler that 
>> gets edited from the view template of the parent..
>>
>>
> I haven't seen Streams or even seen an announcement. Is there a link? Is 
> it part of the 1800 posts thread?
>
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[David Gifford]

Mark S,

Hmm, can't edit posts anymore. I was going to add for you to keep in mind 
that I am the guy desperate enough to create ways in Stroll to hide the 
edit toolbar, tag area, type and field area and even title from the edit 
template. Maybe that will help you see how important a clean, minimal 
interface is to me, so take my comments as coming from someone who has 
those preferences.

On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 7:51:11 AM UTC-5 David Gifford wrote:

> Hi Mark S
>
> I had another look, and yes, I had seen the most recent incarnation of 
> NotoWritey when I posted (if 
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-outliner.html  is still the 
> location). I would still stand by my statements:
>
> 1) It is similar to Stream: it is an outliner editable in view template of 
> the parent tiddler, where each node/line/point is its own tiddler that gets 
> edited from the view template of the parent..
>
> 2) Even though it is an outliner, it seems more geared toward writing and 
> editing larger paragraphs toward longer pieces, than toward rapid 
> generation of shorter items as in to do lists, tables of contents and 
> outlines, because of the jarring apparatus that appears around each point 
> when creating it. This apparatus is distracting when one wants to just 
> generate a lot of short points or rearrange them. The distraction is both 
> visual (the cluttered feel I mentioned) and psychologically (lots of 
> choices present themselves forcefully). The background color of the text 
> field is dark, making it harder to read what one is writing. #eee would be 
> a more relaxing option. The hamburger menu at the far left is always 
> visible, creating another distraction. If there were a way to write but 
> have the editing apparatus hidden until I ask for it, that would be closer 
> to a Dynalist feel than NotoWritey is now. As it stands, I would compare it 
> more to a word processor feel, something useful for writing longer 
> paragraphs in longer documents. Please don't take the above as negative 
> comments! They are not. They are just my attempt at explaining why I don't 
> see NotoWritey as a tool for rapid generation of short points. 
>
> 3) Having the editing tools available at each point is powerful, and 
> despite my reservations in point 2, I really do like NotoWritey. If I were 
> going to write a manuscript, I would choose NotoWritey over Streams and 
> probably over any of the other options. Although printing presents an 
> issue: I would add "Hide left margin icons when printing" to your roadmap, 
> since I don't see anything like that there. They are visible in print 
> preview in Firefox. 
>
> Kudos, Mark, NotoWritey is a great tool. Sorry if my original post sounded 
> dismissive, it wasn't meant to be. And I haven't even investigated all the 
> options in the hamburger menu or the bottom of the editing apparatus. Lots 
> of power packed into it.
>
> On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 10:07:12 PM UTC-5 Mark S. wrote:
>
>> NotoWritey is similar to Streams but is geared more toward writing than 
>>> productivity and outlining. The nodes that open for editing have an editing 
>>> toolbar, which creates a cluttered feel, but increases functionality when 
>>> writing a paragraph.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not sure if by your comment you've seen the latest version of NW, 
>> which has a Dynalist-like outliner.
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[Birthe C]

TT,

Keyboard tools, that MUST be Editor Toolbar. I read it like good for 
writing longer texts, but not for outlining. That was the reason for my 
answer above.
You are sure right, the buttons below can change if wanted.

Yesterday I thought of you and wrote a Notowritey tiddler, on what looks 
like a stack of old yellowed paper and handwriting. Not all this clutter on 
our desks, due to paper tiddlers ;-)

Mark S., we are spoilt for choice at the moment, NotoWritey take some 
getting used to and then to find how we make the best use of it. Here it is 
for sure a keeper.


Birthe

torsdag den 25. juni 2020 kl. 15.40.02 UTC+2 skrev TiddlyTweeter:
>
> Birthe
>
> I THINK David means *the bottom bar*, that uses words not mini-icons. 
> That is easy to make elegant. Right now, in my understanding, Mark is 
> focused on getting it to work well, not aesthetics yet.
>
> As I said, he needs a chance to get to it! :-)
>
> TT
>
> On Thursday, 25 June 2020 15:18:04 UTC+2, Birthe C wrote:
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> I prefer using both Streams and Notowritey, because i cannot really 
>> decide. They are both very useful, but inspire in different directions. 
>> That might not be the same for other people, inspired in other directions.
>> But you comment about cluttered feel, did you see in the bottom that you 
>> can chose not to show Editor Toolbar?
>>
>> Birthe
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[TiddlyTweeter]

David Gifford wrote:
 

> 2) Even though it is an outliner, it seems more geared toward writing and 
> editing larger paragraphs toward longer pieces, 
>

Incorrect. 

Noto is completely AGNOSTIC on Tiddler Size.

In FACT its INBUILT SLICING ("*Splitology*")  is fantastically good, and 
needed. 


   You can split anything, recombine & split again at will.

But you are dead right its  a Writer's Friend. So what else are we doing 
than that?

Best wishes
TT

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Re: [tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[Michael Arndt]

I'm still trying to find my way, but what Birthe says resonates a lot with
me. I currently believe I want to do different things at different times.
Quick note taking and journaling, followed by a review process (like
"interstitials" after an hour or so), followed by a daily, weekly and
monthly review. At each review I would only look at "highlights" from the
review-level below it.
However the review would only be a selective process. At some point I'd
like to take those gathered points, ideas, insights and write
something that is akin to a continuous story. That's where I see
Notowritey for me. This duality is a reason why I'm attracted to TiddlyWiki
– I just didn't find that flexibility in a single tool elsewhere.

Am Do., 25. Juni 2020 um 15:18 Uhr schrieb Birthe C <
strikkeglad...@gmail.com>:

> Dave,
>
> I prefer using both Streams and Notowritey, because i cannot really
> decide. They are both very useful, but inspire in different directions.
> That might not be the same for other people, inspired in other directions.
> But you comment about cluttered feel, did you see in the bottom that you
> can chose not to show Editor Toolbar?
>
> Birthe
>
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> 
> .
>

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[TiddlyTweeter]

Birthe

I THINK David means *the bottom bar*, that uses words not mini-icons. That 
is easy to make elegant. Right now, in my understanding, Mark is focused on 
getting it to work well, not aesthetics yet.

As I said, he needs a chance to get to it! :-)

TT

On Thursday, 25 June 2020 15:18:04 UTC+2, Birthe C wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> I prefer using both Streams and Notowritey, because i cannot really 
> decide. They are both very useful, but inspire in different directions. 
> That might not be the same for other people, inspired in other directions.
> But you comment about cluttered feel, did you see in the bottom that you 
> can chose not to show Editor Toolbar?
>
> Birthe
>

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[Birthe C]

Dave,

I prefer using both Streams and Notowritey, because i cannot really decide. 
They are both very useful, but inspire in different directions. That might 
not be the same for other people, inspired in other directions.
But you comment about cluttered feel, did you see in the bottom that you 
can chose not to show Editor Toolbar?

Birthe

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 5:51:11 AM UTC-7, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Hi Mark S
>
> I had another look, and yes, I had seen the most recent incarnation of 
> NotoWritey when I posted (if 
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-outliner.html  is still the 
> location). I would still stand by my statements:
>
> https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html
 

> 1) It is similar to Stream: it is an outliner editable in view template of 
> the parent tiddler, where each node/line/point is its own tiddler that gets 
> edited from the view template of the parent..
>
>
I haven't seen Streams or even seen an announcement. Is there a link? Is it 
part of the 1800 posts thread?



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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[David Gifford]

Hi Mark S

I had another look, and yes, I had seen the most recent incarnation of 
NotoWritey when I posted (if 
https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-outliner.html  is still the 
location). I would still stand by my statements:

1) It is similar to Stream: it is an outliner editable in view template of 
the parent tiddler, where each node/line/point is its own tiddler that gets 
edited from the view template of the parent..

2) Even though it is an outliner, it seems more geared toward writing and 
editing larger paragraphs toward longer pieces, than toward rapid 
generation of shorter items as in to do lists, tables of contents and 
outlines, because of the jarring apparatus that appears around each point 
when creating it. This apparatus is distracting when one wants to just 
generate a lot of short points or rearrange them. The distraction is both 
visual (the cluttered feel I mentioned) and psychologically (lots of 
choices present themselves forcefully). The background color of the text 
field is dark, making it harder to read what one is writing. #eee would be 
a more relaxing option. The hamburger menu at the far left is always 
visible, creating another distraction. If there were a way to write but 
have the editing apparatus hidden until I ask for it, that would be closer 
to a Dynalist feel than NotoWritey is now. As it stands, I would compare it 
more to a word processor feel, something useful for writing longer 
paragraphs in longer documents. Please don't take the above as negative 
comments! They are not. They are just my attempt at explaining why I don't 
see NotoWritey as a tool for rapid generation of short points. 

3) Having the editing tools available at each point is powerful, and 
despite my reservations in point 2, I really do like NotoWritey. If I were 
going to write a manuscript, I would choose NotoWritey over Streams and 
probably over any of the other options. Although printing presents an 
issue: I would add "Hide left margin icons when printing" to your roadmap, 
since I don't see anything like that there. They are visible in print 
preview in Firefox. 

Kudos, Mark, NotoWritey is a great tool. Sorry if my original post sounded 
dismissive, it wasn't meant to be. And I haven't even investigated all the 
options in the hamburger menu or the bottom of the editing apparatus. Lots 
of power packed into it.

On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 10:07:12 PM UTC-5 Mark S. wrote:

> NotoWritey is similar to Streams but is geared more toward writing than 
>> productivity and outlining. The nodes that open for editing have an editing 
>> toolbar, which creates a cluttered feel, but increases functionality when 
>> writing a paragraph.
>>
>
> I'm not sure if by your comment you've seen the latest version of NW, 
> which has a Dynalist-like outliner.
>

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[Saq Imtiaz]

I would like to add that Streams is meant as a reference plugin to showcase 
how to:
- create tiddler hierarchies on the fly
- implement keyboard driven workflows
by using core widgets and functionality.

There are changes that could be made to make specific writing/outlining use 
cases better, but would add complexity that reduces value as a reference 
implementation. 

As such, it really is meant for others to incorporate into their editions 
and build a workflow around, adapt the code for specific use cases, or take 
inspiration from and implement their own solutions.

Cheers,
Saq

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[TiddlyTweeter]

For those on email I revised my last post.

On Thursday, 25 June 2020 14:15:07 UTC+2, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> David Gifford wrote (my emphasis):
>
> *Stroll*: one time experiment I did to replicate a lot of Roam 
>> functionality in TiddlyWiki. Helpful two column structure. Helpful 
>> tutorials. Process: Use links to link tiddlers, use eyeball tab to view 
>> backlinks in different ways, shift click on links to open a second column 
>> to compare tiddlers side by side. Not a lot of development planned for 
>> Stroll, just updates as TiddlyWiki updates. Note the add ons in the 
>> separate 'goodies' file, linked to in the tutorial tabs.
>>
>  
>
>> *TiddlyRoam*: Someone named Joe took an early, unrefined one-column 
>> version of Stroll, called TiddlyBlink, and added TiddlyMaps to it. I say 
>> early and unrefined, but thanks to Anne-Laure LeCunff, a large number of 
>> people like TiddlyBlink, and it does work. 
>> I don't know if Joe will be developing TiddlyROAM further. Since 
>> TiddlyMaps doesn't work so great with Stroll, I tend to push people to this 
>> if they insist on using TiddlyMaps.
>>
>  
>
>> *Drift*: One of the Tonys was inspired by TiddlyBlink and created a 
>> similar project. It has a nice design, has tabs to show tiddlers that tag 
>> to the present tiddler, and keywords and other types of connection. Is 
>> one-columned. Tony keeps developing it as far as I can tell on this forum, 
>> so this is the one with the most chance of getting developed further. I 
>> would say it is a way better option than TiddlyBlink, and if TiddlyMaps can 
>> be incorporated, then it is also better than TiddlyRoam. I have told Tony 
>> he can use Saq's stories plugin to make Drift a two column monster like 
>> Stroll, but it doesn't look like he has taken me up on it. 
>>
>  
>
>> *Streams* is an attempt to approximate outliner functionality (Dynalist, 
>> WorkFlowy) in a TiddlyWiki. It is great. I just started using it to 
>> reorganize my contacts and "info on hand". Caveats: not meant to be for a 
>> large project of gathering all your notes in one place. Each line you 
>> create in a Streams tiddler is its own tiddler. You can add features of 
>> Stroll to Streams (I did successfully yesterday), but either the comptext 
>> or the relink plugin or both don't work when you do. Streams is still in 
>> developmental stages, so use caution.
>>
>  
>
>> *NotoWritey* is similar to *Streams* but is geared more toward writing 
>> than productivity and outlining ...
>>
>
> *NotoWritey* is also *great* at Outlining 
> *(https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html 
> )*. The difference, I 
> think, is its more "BASIC BRICKS" than humdinger solution to world 
> problems. 
>
> It is VERY good indeed if you need flexible solutions.
>
> The nodes that open for editing have an editing toolbar, which creates a 
>> cluttered feel, but increases functionality when writing a paragraph.
>
>
> Give the man a chance. And feedback.
>
> David, overall,  I think you describe well the trends. But Noto  I think 
> you not really used it.
>
> Best wishes
> TT
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[TiddlyTweeter]

David Gifford wrote (my emphasis):

*Stroll*: one time experiment I did to replicate a lot of Roam 
> functionality in TiddlyWiki. Helpful two column structure. Helpful 
> tutorials. Process: Use links to link tiddlers, use eyeball tab to view 
> backlinks in different ways, shift click on links to open a second column 
> to compare tiddlers side by side. Not a lot of development planned for 
> Stroll, just updates as TiddlyWiki updates. Note the add ons in the 
> separate 'goodies' file, linked to in the tutorial tabs.
>
 

> *TiddlyRoam*: Someone named Joe took an early, unrefined one-column 
> version of Stroll, called TiddlyBlink, and added TiddlyMaps to it. I say 
> early and unrefined, but thanks to Anne-Laure LeCunff, a large number of 
> people like TiddlyBlink, and it does work. 
> I don't know if Joe will be developing TiddlyROAM further. Since 
> TiddlyMaps doesn't work so great with Stroll, I tend to push people to this 
> if they insist on using TiddlyMaps.
>
 

> *Drift*: One of the Tonys was inspired by TiddlyBlink and created a 
> similar project. It has a nice design, has tabs to show tiddlers that tag 
> to the present tiddler, and keywords and other types of connection. Is 
> one-columned. Tony keeps developing it as far as I can tell on this forum, 
> so this is the one with the most chance of getting developed further. I 
> would say it is a way better option than TiddlyBlink, and if TiddlyMaps can 
> be incorporated, then it is also better than TiddlyRoam. I have told Tony 
> he can use Saq's stories plugin to make Drift a two column monster like 
> Stroll, but it doesn't look like he has taken me up on it. 
>
 

> *Streams* is an attempt to approximate outliner functionality (Dynalist, 
> WorkFlowy) in a TiddlyWiki. It is great. I just started using it to 
> reorganize my contacts and "info on hand". Caveats: not meant to be for a 
> large project of gathering all your notes in one place. Each line you 
> create in a Streams tiddler is its own tiddler. You can add features of 
> Stroll to Streams (I did successfully yesterday), but either the comptext 
> or the relink plugin or both don't work when you do. Streams is still in 
> developmental stages, so use caution.
>
 

> *NotoWritey* is similar to Streams but is geared more toward writing than 
> productivity and outlining ...
>

*NotoWritey* is also *great* at Outlining (
https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html). The difference, I 
think, is its more "BASIC BRICKS" than humdinger solution to world 
problems. 

It is VERY good indeed if you need flexible solutions.

The nodes that open for editing have an editing toolbar, which creates a 
> cluttered feel, but increases functionality when writing a paragraph.


Give the man a chance. And feedback.

Best wishes
TT


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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[Dave Parker]

Thank you all for the info (especially Dave :)

This is a good summary 

I feel like a kid in a very large candy store (with eyes bigger than my 
stomach), ha ha

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[TW Tones]

David,


> I have been seeing this on Twitter but not here, that I recall. This 
> TiddlyWiki: https://learnawesome.org/tiddlywiki.html imitates this site: 
> https://notes.andymatuschak.org/About_these_notes
>

I had not seen this thanks for sharing. 

Perhaps one more implementation/edition of tiddlywiki *that operates in a 
similar space* is the The name: TiddlyTouch / MuuriTouch / tiddly muuri 
tiddlywiki plugin.

This implementation can actually be displayed over multiple screens and 
move tiddlers around even more in the space.
It is demoed on V5.1.15 so should be tested on later versions. 

Announcement/Discussion 


http://muritest.tiddlyspot.com/
*The Plugin page: tiddlytouch.tiddlyspot.com 
*

Regards
Tony/TW Tones (Not Tony K of Drift Fame)

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

>
> NotoWritey is similar to Streams but is geared more toward writing than 
> productivity and outlining. The nodes that open for editing have an editing 
> toolbar, which creates a cluttered feel, but increases functionality when 
> writing a paragraph.
>

I'm not sure if by your comment you've seen the latest version of NW, which 
has a Dynalist-like outliner.

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[David Gifford]

Birthe

Yes I was playing with it tonight. I got the same as you re: importing. But 
then suddenly it snapped aright, and I was able to import. I now have my 
stylesheet, fonts, and I replaced the messy viewtemplate they created with 
my Stroll refs as links. 

I just ditched the preview plugin, too. Preview plugin sounds great in 
theory, and it is neat to see the previews on hover, until you realize they 
come up EVERY time you hover, even if by accident, over a link (imagine the 
chaos in a table of contents tiddler) and EVERY time you need to click 
somewhere else to get it to close.

I too hope they keep working on it.

On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 8:44:10 PM UTC-5 strikke...@gmail.com wrote:

> Dave,
>
> I have seen and testet it. Try to import something into it. Then you get 
> the title $:/Import, vertical and no tiddlercontrols. In the settings there 
> are checks for closing the tiddlers to the right...but they open and closed 
> as they please. At least they do in the version I have had my hands on.
> It is quite different from your two stories. This is one story but 
> horizontal. Quite fun but lacks some for production.
> Hope it will get further development.
>
> Birthe
>
> torsdag den 25. juni 2020 kl. 02.54.50 UTC+2 skrev David Gifford:
>
>> Just to throw one more in the mix.
>>
>> I have been seeing this on Twitter but not here, that I recall. This 
>> TiddlyWiki: https://learnawesome.org/tiddlywiki.html imitates this site: 
>> https://notes.andymatuschak.org/About_these_notes
>>
> thanks, 
>>
>>> - Dave
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[Birthe C]

Dave,

I have seen and testet it. Try to import something into it. Then you get 
the title $:/Import, vertical and no tiddlercontrols. In the settings there 
are checks for closing the tiddlers to the right...but they open and closed 
as they please. At least they do in the version I have had my hands on.
It is quite different from your two stories. This is one story but 
horizontal. Quite fun but lacks some for production.
Hope it will get further development.

Birthe

torsdag den 25. juni 2020 kl. 02.54.50 UTC+2 skrev David Gifford:
>
> Just to throw one more in the mix.
>
> I have been seeing this on Twitter but not here, that I recall. This 
> TiddlyWiki: https://learnawesome.org/tiddlywiki.html imitates this site: 
> https://notes.andymatuschak.org/About_these_notes
> thanks, 
>
>> - Dave
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[David Gifford]

Just to throw one more in the mix.

I have been seeing this on Twitter but not here, that I recall. This 
TiddlyWiki: https://learnawesome.org/tiddlywiki.html imitates this site: 
https://notes.andymatuschak.org/About_these_notes

On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 11:18:41 AM UTC-5 cedard...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm watching from afar with fascination as several similar TW editions 
> seem to be simultaneously developing in real time.
>
> I've been wanting to dive in but with little personal time find myself 
> suffering from choice paralysis.
>
> For those who have jumped all in on one (or more) of these editions,  what 
> is your use-case or typical work flow that has made the decision for you 
> personally?
>
> * Stroll : https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html
> * Drift : https://akhater.github.io/drift
> * TiddlyRoam: https://joekroese.github.io/tiddlyroam/
> * Streams (keyboard driven draggable bullets): 
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/streams.html
>
> thanks, 
> - Dave
>

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[Birthe C]

Dave and Dave.

Tony K did try to add the two column structure. I think he gave up for now. 
I have had a go also, it looked nice enough until I closed the sidebar - in 
the left side.
Tony also made a version with Tiddlymap.

Very nice explanation of the different versions, Dave.

Birthe

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[David Gifford]

Hi Dave, greetings from Dave.

Stroll: one time experiment I did to replicate a lot of Roam functionality 
in TiddlyWiki. Helpful two column structure. Helpful tutorials. Process: 
Use links to link tiddlers, use eyeball tab to view backlinks in different 
ways, shift click on links to open a second column to compare tiddlers side 
by side. Not a lot of development planned for Stroll, just updates as 
TiddlyWiki updates. Note the add ons in the separate 'goodies' file, linked 
to in the tutorial tabs.

TiddlyRoam: Someone named Joe took an early, unrefined one-column version 
of Stroll, called TiddlyBlink, and added TiddlyMaps to it. I say early and 
unrefined, but thanks to Anne-Laure LeCunff, a large number of people like 
TiddlyBlink, and it does work. 
I don't know if Joe will be developing TiddlyROAM further. Since TiddlyMaps 
doesn't work so great with Stroll, I tend to push people to this if they 
insist on using TiddlyMaps.

Drift: One of the Tonys was inspired by TiddlyBlink and created a similar 
project. It has a nice design, has tabs to show tiddlers that tag to the 
present tiddler, and keywords and other types of connection. Is 
one-columned. Tony keeps developing it as far as I can tell on this forum, 
so this is the one with the most chance of getting developed further. I 
would say it is a way better option than TiddlyBlink, and if TiddlyMaps can 
be incorporated, then it is also better than TiddlyRoam. I have told Tony 
he can use Saq's stories plugin to make Drift a two column monster like 
Stroll, but it doesn't look like he has taken me up on it. 

Streams and NotoWritey are  different animals than the first three, and are 
similar to each other.

Streams is an attempt to approximate outliner functionality (Dynalist, 
WorkFlowy) in a TiddlyWiki. It is great. I just started using it to 
reorganize my contacts and "info on hand". Caveats: not meant to be for a 
large project of gathering all your notes in one place. Each line you 
create in a Streams tiddler is its own tiddler. You can add features of 
Stroll to Streams (I did successfully yesterday), but either the comptext 
or the relink plugin or both don't work when you do. Streams is still in 
developmental stages, so use caution.

NotoWritey is similar to Streams but is geared more toward writing than 
productivity and outlining. The nodes that open for editing have an editing 
toolbar, which creates a cluttered feel, but increases functionality when 
writing a paragraph.

Hope this helps!

On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 11:18:41 AM UTC-5 cedard...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm watching from afar with fascination as several similar TW editions 
> seem to be simultaneously developing in real time.
>
> I've been wanting to dive in but with little personal time find myself 
> suffering from choice paralysis.
>
> For those who have jumped all in on one (or more) of these editions,  what 
> is your use-case or typical work flow that has made the decision for you 
> personally?
>
> * Stroll : https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html
> * Drift : https://akhater.github.io/drift
> * TiddlyRoam: https://joekroese.github.io/tiddlyroam/
> * Streams (keyboard driven draggable bullets): 
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/streams.html
>
> thanks, 
> - Dave
>

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[TW Tones]

Dave,

Having not come from a roam like experience I am personally taken with the 
dual story aspect of Stroll and love streams for its own sake. 

Stream is also flexible enough to build on and enhance. 

There is also Notoritty of Marks Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

Regards
Tony

On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 2:18:41 AM UTC+10, Dave Parker wrote:
>
> I'm watching from afar with fascination as several similar TW editions 
> seem to be simultaneously developing in real time.
>
> I've been wanting to dive in but with little personal time find myself 
> suffering from choice paralysis.
>
> For those who have jumped all in on one (or more) of these editions,  what 
> is your use-case or typical work flow that has made the decision for you 
> personally?
>
> * Stroll : https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html
> * Drift : https://akhater.github.io/drift
> * TiddlyRoam: https://joekroese.github.io/tiddlyroam/
> * Streams (keyboard driven draggable bullets): 
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/streams.html
>
> thanks, 
> - Dave
>

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[Dave Parker]

Ha ha, thanks!  I actually did install that plug in and like it, still unsure 
of how I'm going to incorporate it in to my "official" work flow. I like the 
drag and drop aspect, and the quickness, and I'm also warming to the whole 
date-as-tiddler-name thing, except I have traditionally used tiddler titles for 
Todo descriptions, so there's a bit of a disconnect there, but oh well -it's 
just nice to see so much development going on on this platform.

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[tw5] Re: stroll drift tiddlyroam streams use cases?

[Birthe C]

Dave,

While you are paralysed by choice,   you could start using streams. Not 
instead of any of the other, but because it is very fast to write - and fun 
too.

You are not the only one having a hard time deciding. Just look at all the 
questions about mixing and matching.
 
Birthe

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