[time-nuts] testing L1 antenna
I have a number of GPS L1 timing antenna up, and I suspect one of them is not quite right. As a test procedure, all I can come up with is a power-injector connected to the feed line, the feed line connected to a DC block on the input of a 8566A SA. Then connect a known good antenna and compare the DUT. Note: I haven't tried this yet, still thinking about it :) Has anyone got a proven method to check a GPS timing antenna for reliable operation? --marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] testing L1 antenna
Has anyone got a proven method to check a GPS timing antenna for reliable operation? Plug it into a known-good GPS receiver. A while ago, I thought one of my antennas had died. Then the other died, or something like that. Both antennas started working again after I power cycled my Z3801A. I assume the GPS unit was confused. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] testing L1 antenna
You might generate a CW RF test signal at a level that allows easy detection on the SA. Maybe into a simple dipole antenna. A second dipole test antenna could establish a reference that you could relate the GPS antenna gain to. Tom - Original Message - From: Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 2:51 AM Subject: [time-nuts] testing L1 antenna I have a number of GPS L1 timing antenna up, and I suspect one of them is not quite right. As a test procedure, all I can come up with is a power-injector connected to the feed line, the feed line connected to a DC block on the input of a 8566A SA. Then connect a known good antenna and compare the DUT. Note: I haven't tried this yet, still thinking about it :) Has anyone got a proven method to check a GPS timing antenna for reliable operation? --marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] testing L1 antenna
Thanks Tom, but the only RF genny I have is a pair of HP 8568B and a HP 8567A I think it is. The fan runs all the time on the 8567A so it mainly stays unplugged.. The only thing I have that can go that high is an 8350B Sweeper with a 83522A plugin (0.01-2.4 GHz). Can I utilise the sweeper somehow? --marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Tom Miller Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 4:58 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] testing L1 antenna You might generate a CW RF test signal at a level that allows easy detection on the SA. Maybe into a simple dipole antenna. A second dipole test antenna could establish a reference that you could relate the GPS antenna gain to. Tom - Original Message - From: Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 2:51 AM Subject: [time-nuts] testing L1 antenna I have a number of GPS L1 timing antenna up, and I suspect one of them is not quite right. As a test procedure, all I can come up with is a power-injector connected to the feed line, the feed line connected to a DC block on the input of a 8566A SA. Then connect a known good antenna and compare the DUT. Note: I haven't tried this yet, still thinking about it :) Has anyone got a proven method to check a GPS timing antenna for reliable operation? --marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] testing L1 antenna
It is impossible to see something on the spectrum analyzer, I use the network analyzer (here at work) to test GPS antennas that our customers send in to have them checked. You can use the spectrum analyzer but then you must have something that transmits... maybe this is the only case when a $10 GPS jammer is useful (only for few seconds, of course). On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: Has anyone got a proven method to check a GPS timing antenna for reliable operation? Plug it into a known-good GPS receiver. A while ago, I thought one of my antennas had died. Then the other died, or something like that. Both antennas started working again after I power cycled my Z3801A. I assume the GPS unit was confused. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP Agilent VLF Comparator Receiver 117A Frequency Standard - 60 KHz
Would this box work with the new WWVB format? On 07/25/2013 04:07 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Oh my gosh, a 117A has popped up on eBay! Looks in pretty good condition given its age... Seller claims the antenna will be listed shortly! Item # 281141315740 --marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP Agilent VLF Comparator Receiver 117A Frequency Standard - 60 KHz
Oh my gosh, a 117A has popped up on eBay! Looks in pretty good condition given its age... Seller claims the antenna will be listed shortly! Item # 281141315740 --marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP Agilent VLF Comparator Receiver 117A Frequency Standard - 60 KHz
Could not resist a look. Its kind of what I have seen the units look like old stickers and such. My 2 were ugly. But that old soap and water and elbow grease cleans things up very well. No mention that it can't possibly work. $124 + $28 shipping + $25 manual. I am thinking thats an awful nice Tbolt thats far more stable. Regards Paul. WB8TSL On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:05 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: No pre 2012 phase tracking receiver will work. So far I have not seen a single magical new receiver for the new modulation. So if its a good price $20 including shipping buy it for a hole filler in the rack. Or just because you always wanted one. You have to build the d-psk-r to actually use them. I have 2 117s. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 7:16 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX c...@omen.comwrote: Would this box work with the new WWVB format? On 07/25/2013 04:07 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Oh my gosh, a 117A has popped up on eBay! Looks in pretty good condition given its age... Seller claims the antenna will be listed shortly! Item # 281141315740 --marki __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
FYI, The MPSA18RLRAG is a stock item at Digi-Key, min beta 500 at 1 10mA, 45V 200mA rated, TO-92. $0.33 each. http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MPSA18RLRAG/MPSA18RLRAGOSCT-ND/1139919 From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update Well learned quite a bit Q4 does have an issue. Further there is a reason it has such high Beta. Its must deliver 30 ma to the oscillator and buffer. I was quite surprised by this current level. I was guessing the oscillator was a few mils and the buffer maybe 8. The 2n3904 simply does not cut it. Need to do some digging in the ole transistors. Regards Paul. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP Agilent VLF Comparator Receiver 117A Frequency Standard - 60 KHz
No pre 2012 phase tracking receiver will work. So far I have not seen a single magical new receiver for the new modulation. So if its a good price $20 including shipping buy it for a hole filler in the rack. Or just because you always wanted one. You have to build the d-psk-r to actually use them. I have 2 117s. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 7:16 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX c...@omen.com wrote: Would this box work with the new WWVB format? On 07/25/2013 04:07 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Oh my gosh, a 117A has popped up on eBay! Looks in pretty good condition given its age... Seller claims the antenna will be listed shortly! Item # 281141315740 --marki __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] RS 232
Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
Robert I can't believe you found the transistor. When I pulled it out last night, its actually a MPSA18!!! I had not had time to look it up but figured it was a ebay leftover hunt. :-) At that price I may order 20 of them. Like the gain. Thanks. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Robert LaJeunesse rlajeune...@sbcglobal.net wrote: FYI, The MPSA18RLRAG is a stock item at Digi-Key, min beta 500 at 1 10mA, 45V 200mA rated, TO-92. $0.33 each. http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MPSA18RLRAG/MPSA18RLRAGOSCT-ND/1139919 From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update Well learned quite a bit Q4 does have an issue. Further there is a reason it has such high Beta. Its must deliver 30 ma to the oscillator and buffer. I was quite surprised by this current level. I was guessing the oscillator was a few mils and the buffer maybe 8. The 2n3904 simply does not cut it. Need to do some digging in the ole transistors. Regards Paul. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
Very interesting list. I wonder if that is a way to identify a cross from a manufacturer's P/N (Tek, HP, Fluke, etc.) to a 'real' part? Either that or all you need is a collection of NTE parts and never anything else :). I have used NTE parts to cross to 'unobtanium' in the past and, so far, it's worked. However, my first choice is a 'new' item followed by 'NOS' followed by 'used' then 'anything that will work'. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Orin Eman Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:01 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update I find it hard to believe that NTE spec the 123AP to replace a transistor with min beta of 500... This is quite entertaining: http://www.vetco.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1856 Look at the parts it's supposed to replace. (Nothing against Vetco - they are a great source of NTE components and are local to me. They are just quoting what NTE claim.) Orin. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:42 PM, J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net wrote: The 2N6429 crosses to an NTE123AP, in stock at Allied for $0.80. http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70214870mkwid =szEc5 jMBIpcrid=23468365337pkw=nte123appmt=epdv=cgclid=CKyzu9_cybgCFWYV 7AodJA sAWQ Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 8:29 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update Well learned quite a bit Q4 does have an issue. Further there is a reason it has such high Beta. Its must deliver 30 ma to the oscillator and buffer. I was quite surprised by this current level. I was guessing the oscillator was a few mils and the buffer maybe 8. The 2n3904 simply does not cut it. Need to do some digging in the ole transistors. Regards Paul. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:06 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: I can hope I will embed a k thermocouple also. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi The regulator should be fixed, and the OCXO will work better with it repaired. That said, shifting the regulated voltage from 5.7 to 5.27 volts should not shift that oscillator 45 Hz. Bob On Jul 24, 2013, at 9:00 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Hello to the group. Numbers of threads running on the HP 10811. Mine is 45 Hz low. The oven is most likely ok. I did get the can open per the various other threads and the web pix. Started testing the circuits and have found that the regulator for the oscillator isn't. Its supposed to produce 5.7V and is at 5.27V thats pretty significant. The transistor looks like a shorted collector base junction. Though I do not have it out of circuit yet. Its Q4 a 2n6429. What interesting about this transistor is its beta at 1 ma is 500 min and max is 1300. Its not a darlington. Thats pretty amazing. I am looking through my xsistors to find something close. May just through a 2n3904 in for a quick test. Its beta is nothing like the 6429. But it would help to prove/disprove the point that the low V may be offsetting the oscillator I hope. Will also embed a K thermal couple to verify the oven really is in the 80-84C region. Regards Paul. WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Agilent / HP 117A on eBay...
I always wanted on, but with the intention of using it. To bad it's now useless now with the new WWVB format, otherwise I'd buy it. Antennas I got. Burt, K6OQK At 06:14 AM 7/25/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Would this box work with the new WWVB format? On 07/25/2013 04:07 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Oh my gosh, a 117A has popped up on eBay! Looks in pretty good condition given its age... Seller claims the antenna will be listed shortly! Item # 281141315740 --marki Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
Debating the band belive ideal for older is +-3V. But I would need to check. And how old is old? Not to sure many of the old 1488 1489 devices are around anymore. I think more compatibility would be supported by the +-1.4 you mention. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:39 AM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
NTE is actually a conglomeration of old parts cross reference stuff. Mostly from the TV and radio days. They consolidated the consumer lines of Motorola HEP, RCAs SK, and Sylvanias ECG lines to fill out the replacement device business. Thats when things could be repaired. So thats the reason the 123a can cover a wide range. Its sort of a cross of a cross sort of fits thing. Don't get me at all wrong with these comments. Glad they are around. But it is the reality. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:50 AM, J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net wrote: Very interesting list. I wonder if that is a way to identify a cross from a manufacturer's P/N (Tek, HP, Fluke, etc.) to a 'real' part? Either that or all you need is a collection of NTE parts and never anything else :). I have used NTE parts to cross to 'unobtanium' in the past and, so far, it's worked. However, my first choice is a 'new' item followed by 'NOS' followed by 'used' then 'anything that will work'. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Orin Eman Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:01 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update I find it hard to believe that NTE spec the 123AP to replace a transistor with min beta of 500... This is quite entertaining: http://www.vetco.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1856 Look at the parts it's supposed to replace. (Nothing against Vetco - they are a great source of NTE components and are local to me. They are just quoting what NTE claim.) Orin. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:42 PM, J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net wrote: The 2N6429 crosses to an NTE123AP, in stock at Allied for $0.80. http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70214870mkwid =szEc5 jMBIpcrid=23468365337pkw=nte123appmt=epdv=cgclid=CKyzu9_cybgCFWYV 7AodJA sAWQ Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 8:29 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update Well learned quite a bit Q4 does have an issue. Further there is a reason it has such high Beta. Its must deliver 30 ma to the oscillator and buffer. I was quite surprised by this current level. I was guessing the oscillator was a few mils and the buffer maybe 8. The 2n3904 simply does not cut it. Need to do some digging in the ole transistors. Regards Paul. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:06 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: I can hope I will embed a k thermocouple also. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi The regulator should be fixed, and the OCXO will work better with it repaired. That said, shifting the regulated voltage from 5.7 to 5.27 volts should not shift that oscillator 45 Hz. Bob On Jul 24, 2013, at 9:00 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Hello to the group. Numbers of threads running on the HP 10811. Mine is 45 Hz low. The oven is most likely ok. I did get the can open per the various other threads and the web pix. Started testing the circuits and have found that the regulator for the oscillator isn't. Its supposed to produce 5.7V and is at 5.27V thats pretty significant. The transistor looks like a shorted collector base junction. Though I do not have it out of circuit yet. Its Q4 a 2n6429. What interesting about this transistor is its beta at 1 ma is 500 min and max is 1300. Its not a darlington. Thats pretty amazing. I am looking through my xsistors to find something close. May just through a 2n3904 in for a quick test. Its beta is nothing like the 6429. But it would help to prove/disprove the point that the low V may be offsetting the oscillator I hope. Will also embed a K thermal couple to verify the oven really is in the 80-84C region. Regards Paul. WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
[time-nuts] HP Agilent VLF Comparator Receiver 117A...
Paul, It's a buy it now at $124.00. That's an expensive rack filler or movie prop. Burt, K6OQK Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Agilent VLF Comparator Receiver 117A Frequency Standard - 60 KHz No pre 2012 phase tracking receiver will work. So far I have not seen a single magical new receiver for the new modulation. So if its a good price $20 including shipping buy it for a hole filler in the rack. Or just because you always wanted one. You have to build the d-psk-r to actually use them. I have 2 117s. Regards Paul WB8TSL Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Subject: HP Agilent VLF Comparator Receiver 117A Frequency
That's my HP 117A receiver that I listed. It's $120 and I pay for shipping. It's the last of three I had. Shipping will cost between $20 -$25 depending on where you live. I could either offer it for sale or send it to the landfill. I chose to offer it to someone who might want to own a piece of history. And yes I have the antenna as well. 73, Dave - W6TE ** ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
paul swed wrote: I can't believe you found the transistor. When I pulled it out last night, its actually a MPSA18!!! I had not had time to look it up but figured it was a ebay leftover hunt. :-) At that price I may order 20 of them. Like the gain. Toshiba used to make a transistor with even higher gain, the 2SC3112/2SC3113/2SC3295/2SC4666 (same chip, different package). They discontinued it recently, however. Cheers Stefan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
For short cable and non-critical use, CMOS levels (0-5V) work fine. RS-232 receiver thresholds are actually similar to TTL levels (0.8-2.7V), though the spec is for +/-3V minimum drive for noise immunity. Phantom power can be gotten from the control lines - this is how serial mice are powered. David On 7/25/13 10:21 AM, paul swed wrote: Debating the band belive ideal for older is +-3V. But I would need to check. And how old is old? Not to sure many of the old 1488 1489 devices are around anymore. I think more compatibility would be supported by the +-1.4 you mention. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:39 AM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP Agilent VLF Comparator Receiver 117A...
Yes it is but you did not add the $28 shipping and gosh you have to have the antenna for $XX big bucks they are rare and the manual. I mean thats a lot of cash for a tube radio. Tbolt 14 watts superior accuracy and monitoring for the same or lower price. Really easy to attach to a blank rack filler panel. Granted no strip chart recorder or seriously bad 60 Khz propagation. But everything has a trade off. Regards Paul. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: Paul, It's a buy it now at $124.00. That's an expensive rack filler or movie prop. Burt, K6OQK Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Agilent VLF Comparator Receiver 117A Frequency Standard - 60 KHz No pre 2012 phase tracking receiver will work. So far I have not seen a single magical new receiver for the new modulation. So if its a good price $20 including shipping buy it for a hole filler in the rack. Or just because you always wanted one. You have to build the d-psk-r to actually use them. I have 2 117s. Regards Paul WB8TSL Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
I totally agree that a 123 will not replace it. A luck would have it I have 12 X 2n3390 xsistors Beta 400-1000. These are the older TO-98s and I will try one tonight. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 12:00 AM, Orin Eman orin.e...@gmail.com wrote: I find it hard to believe that NTE spec the 123AP to replace a transistor with min beta of 500... This is quite entertaining: http://www.vetco.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1856 Look at the parts it's supposed to replace. (Nothing against Vetco - they are a great source of NTE components and are local to me. They are just quoting what NTE claim.) Orin. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:42 PM, J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net wrote: The 2N6429 crosses to an NTE123AP, in stock at Allied for $0.80. http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70214870mkwid=szEc5 jMBIpcrid=23468365337pkw=nte123appmt=epdv=cgclid=CKyzu9_cybgCFWYV7AodJA sAWQ Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 8:29 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update Well learned quite a bit Q4 does have an issue. Further there is a reason it has such high Beta. Its must deliver 30 ma to the oscillator and buffer. I was quite surprised by this current level. I was guessing the oscillator was a few mils and the buffer maybe 8. The 2n3904 simply does not cut it. Need to do some digging in the ole transistors. Regards Paul. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:06 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: I can hope I will embed a k thermocouple also. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi The regulator should be fixed, and the OCXO will work better with it repaired. That said, shifting the regulated voltage from 5.7 to 5.27 volts should not shift that oscillator 45 Hz. Bob On Jul 24, 2013, at 9:00 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Hello to the group. Numbers of threads running on the HP 10811. Mine is 45 Hz low. The oven is most likely ok. I did get the can open per the various other threads and the web pix. Started testing the circuits and have found that the regulator for the oscillator isn't. Its supposed to produce 5.7V and is at 5.27V thats pretty significant. The transistor looks like a shorted collector base junction. Though I do not have it out of circuit yet. Its Q4 a 2n6429. What interesting about this transistor is its beta at 1 ma is 500 min and max is 1300. Its not a darlington. Thats pretty amazing. I am looking through my xsistors to find something close. May just through a 2n3904 in for a quick test. Its beta is nothing like the 6429. But it would help to prove/disprove the point that the low V may be offsetting the oscillator I hope. Will also embed a K thermal couple to verify the oven really is in the 80-84C region. Regards Paul. WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
A lot of these questions can be side-stepped today because few to no modern PC's have built in RS-232 serial ports. And if you are going to add a serial port you can just put in a RS-422 PCI card or RS-422 to USB interface instead. A big win, and it makes much more sense to leach +5V off of USB than it does to leach power off RS-232 control lines. Many time-nut devices are already RS-422 (e.g. Z3801A) serial and differential for PPS, and it makes little sense today to backhaul to RS-232 when a new PC won't have native RS-232 support anyway. Tim N3QE On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:39 AM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
Hi Bert, I am sure your circuit is clear in your head, but would you mind attaching detail? You have perked my interest with the low-noise keyword ;) -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 11:39 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] RS 232 Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTP to discipline Raspberry Pi (Hal Murray)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 20:46:51 -0700 From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net ja...@peroulas.com said: Any ideas on where I can look to track down the discrepancy? Dig out the kernel sources. This would be my first time looking at kernel sources. Any suggestions as to where to start? Who but a time-nut would care if the crystal was off by 33 ppm or 43 ppm? So 10ppm qualifies me as a time nut? Yay! :) James -- *Integrity is a binary state - either you have it or you don’t.* - John Doerr ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTP to discipline Raspberry Pi (Hal Murray)
ja...@peroulas.com said: This would be my first time looking at kernel sources. Any suggestions as to where to start? I don't have a Raspberry Pi so I'm not familiar with how they do things. The main Linux kernel sources are available at kernel.org. It's driven by a config file, and there is a curses based menu program to select the options you want. You get there via make menuconfig. There is also a make oldconfig that takes an old config file (copied from someplace) and asks what you want to do with the new options. Each distribution usually has their own software collection which includes patches made to upstream packages they use that haven't been accepted by the upstream yet. If you poke around the Raspberry Pi web site, you should be able to find the recipe for downloading, building, and installing their (probably modified) version of the kernel. There is probably a mailing list to discuss things like that. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
I do not understand your question, I am referring to low noise applications like counters for dual mixers or other AV measurements, but also Shera and even Tbolt where external noise should be kept to a minimum. When you chase 1 E-14, isolation is key and I always like to err on the cautious side and as I stated we use blue tooth or USB but in the case of USB there are always H11 in the circuit. Some still like to use RS 232 and the subject came up and I have on my boards H11's like on the counter Corby uses but he ended up using an external power source and I like to eliminate that requirement. David had the right answer using the power that the RS 232 mouse uses out of a DB 9, started looking but I do not have one any more and I can not find any data. Bert In a message dated 7/25/2013 2:48:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: Hi Bert, I am sure your circuit is clear in your head, but would you mind attaching detail? You have perked my interest with the low-noise keyword ;) -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 11:39 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] RS 232 Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
Hi Bert, My attitude is if you are going to provide an RS-232 port then do it properly (min of +/- 3 volts max of +/- 25 volts). RS-232 is still a popular item in the hobby controller world, although USB is gaining ground. In so far as stability goes, RS-232 is much cleaner and easier to handle in the micro coding compared to USB. With that said, there is nothing wrong with providing both, it just makes the coding a bit harder. If you need long lines and want common mode suppression then utilize RS-485, a derivative of RS-232. You could also use TOSLINK, the fiber optic lines used in the audio field. The components are fairly cheap compared to other forms of plastic or glass (more expensive) fiber products. Most products will handle up to 5 MHz at reasonable distances. If you are careful in selecting the TX and RX port parts it can go up to 15 MHz at the top end, especially at short distances. Irrespective of all that, the power source has no relationship to the RS-232 or USB for that matter. 73BillWB6BNQ ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: I do not understand your question, I am referring to low noise applications like counters for dual mixers or other AV measurements, but also Shera and even Tbolt where external noise should be kept to a minimum. When you chase 1 E-14, isolation is key and I always like to err on the cautious side and as I stated we use blue tooth or USB but in the case of USB there are always H11 in the circuit. Some still like to use RS 232 and the subject came up and I have on my boards H11's like on the counter Corby uses but he ended up using an external power source and I like to eliminate that requirement. David had the right answer using the power that the RS 232 mouse uses out of a DB 9, started looking but I do not have one any more and I can not find any data. Bert In a message dated 7/25/2013 2:48:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: Hi Bert, I am sure your circuit is clear in your head, but would you mind attaching detail? You have perked my interest with the low-noise keyword ;) -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 11:39 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] RS 232 Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
Bert pretty sure he is just asking for a diagram. He is interested in the method of noise isolation. Regards Paul. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 3:32 PM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: I do not understand your question, I am referring to low noise applications like counters for dual mixers or other AV measurements, but also Shera and even Tbolt where external noise should be kept to a minimum. When you chase 1 E-14, isolation is key and I always like to err on the cautious side and as I stated we use blue tooth or USB but in the case of USB there are always H11 in the circuit. Some still like to use RS 232 and the subject came up and I have on my boards H11's like on the counter Corby uses but he ended up using an external power source and I like to eliminate that requirement. David had the right answer using the power that the RS 232 mouse uses out of a DB 9, started looking but I do not have one any more and I can not find any data. Bert In a message dated 7/25/2013 2:48:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: Hi Bert, I am sure your circuit is clear in your head, but would you mind attaching detail? You have perked my interest with the low-noise keyword ;) -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 11:39 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] RS 232 Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
ewkeh...@aol.com said: David had the right answer using the power that the RS 232 mouse uses out of a DB 9, started looking but I do not have one any more and I can not find any data. Some PCI cards have a jumper on one of the modem control signals to provide 5 or 12 V. It was used to power things like bar code scanners before USB came along. (I'll dig out a part number if anybody wants it.) If you only need a few mA, you can get that from the normal modem control signals. I have a temperature sensor that works that way. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
Diagram of the two opto couplers? In a message dated 7/25/2013 4:10:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, paulsw...@gmail.com writes: Bert pretty sure he is just asking for a diagram. He is interested in the method of noise isolation. Regards Paul. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 3:32 PM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: I do not understand your question, I am referring to low noise applications like counters for dual mixers or other AV measurements, but also Shera and even Tbolt where external noise should be kept to a minimum. When you chase 1 E-14, isolation is key and I always like to err on the cautious side and as I stated we use blue tooth or USB but in the case of USB there are always H11 in the circuit. Some still like to use RS 232 and the subject came up and I have on my boards H11's like on the counter Corby uses but he ended up using an external power source and I like to eliminate that requirement. David had the right answer using the power that the RS 232 mouse uses out of a DB 9, started looking but I do not have one any more and I can not find any data. Bert In a message dated 7/25/2013 2:48:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: Hi Bert, I am sure your circuit is clear in your head, but would you mind attaching detail? You have perked my interest with the low-noise keyword ;) -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 11:39 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] RS 232 Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
Bill Thank you I am only looking for a solution that is simple in Corby's case we used a separate power source, but the question is, is it necessary. That is why I brought it up to the list. Shopping for ideas. Bert In a message dated 7/25/2013 4:06:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wb6...@cox.net writes: Hi Bert, My attitude is if you are going to provide an RS-232 port then do it properly (min of +/- 3 volts max of +/- 25 volts). RS-232 is still a popular item in the hobby controller world, although USB is gaining ground. In so far as stability goes, RS-232 is much cleaner and easier to handle in the micro coding compared to USB. With that said, there is nothing wrong with providing both, it just makes the coding a bit harder. If you need long lines and want common mode suppression then utilize RS-485, a derivative of RS-232. You could also use TOSLINK, the fiber optic lines used in the audio field. The components are fairly cheap compared to other forms of plastic or glass (more expensive) fiber products. Most products will handle up to 5 MHz at reasonable distances. If you are careful in selecting the TX and RX port parts it can go up to 15 MHz at the top end, especially at short distances. Irrespective of all that, the power source has no relationship to the RS-232 or USB for that matter. 73BillWB6BNQ ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: I do not understand your question, I am referring to low noise applications like counters for dual mixers or other AV measurements, but also Shera and even Tbolt where external noise should be kept to a minimum. When you chase 1 E-14, isolation is key and I always like to err on the cautious side and as I stated we use blue tooth or USB but in the case of USB there are always H11 in the circuit. Some still like to use RS 232 and the subject came up and I have on my boards H11's like on the counter Corby uses but he ended up using an external power source and I like to eliminate that requirement. David had the right answer using the power that the RS 232 mouse uses out of a DB 9, started looking but I do not have one any more and I can not find any data. Bert In a message dated 7/25/2013 2:48:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: Hi Bert, I am sure your circuit is clear in your head, but would you mind attaching detail? You have perked my interest with the low-noise keyword ;) -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 11:39 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] RS 232 Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
Bert I will add back in here. The max232 has the internal switching oscillator and that makes the noise. But you know that. So an external +/-supply linear is cheap and simple. Full wave bridge and 2 caps. No regulation needed. Using your opto isolator provides complete noise and electrical isolation. Computers are nasty beasts especially when you grab +/- power from the rs232 port. Some one re-confirmed my thinking that the rs 232 spec was +/-3V for noise margin. I think thats about all there is. Sorry if I am misunderstanding your need. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 4:34 PM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: Bill Thank you I am only looking for a solution that is simple in Corby's case we used a separate power source, but the question is, is it necessary. That is why I brought it up to the list. Shopping for ideas. Bert In a message dated 7/25/2013 4:06:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wb6...@cox.net writes: Hi Bert, My attitude is if you are going to provide an RS-232 port then do it properly (min of +/- 3 volts max of +/- 25 volts). RS-232 is still a popular item in the hobby controller world, although USB is gaining ground. In so far as stability goes, RS-232 is much cleaner and easier to handle in the micro coding compared to USB. With that said, there is nothing wrong with providing both, it just makes the coding a bit harder. If you need long lines and want common mode suppression then utilize RS-485, a derivative of RS-232. You could also use TOSLINK, the fiber optic lines used in the audio field. The components are fairly cheap compared to other forms of plastic or glass (more expensive) fiber products. Most products will handle up to 5 MHz at reasonable distances. If you are careful in selecting the TX and RX port parts it can go up to 15 MHz at the top end, especially at short distances. Irrespective of all that, the power source has no relationship to the RS-232 or USB for that matter. 73BillWB6BNQ ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: I do not understand your question, I am referring to low noise applications like counters for dual mixers or other AV measurements, but also Shera and even Tbolt where external noise should be kept to a minimum. When you chase 1 E-14, isolation is key and I always like to err on the cautious side and as I stated we use blue tooth or USB but in the case of USB there are always H11 in the circuit. Some still like to use RS 232 and the subject came up and I have on my boards H11's like on the counter Corby uses but he ended up using an external power source and I like to eliminate that requirement. David had the right answer using the power that the RS 232 mouse uses out of a DB 9, started looking but I do not have one any more and I can not find any data. Bert In a message dated 7/25/2013 2:48:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: Hi Bert, I am sure your circuit is clear in your head, but would you mind attaching detail? You have perked my interest with the low-noise keyword ;) -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 11:39 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] RS 232 Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
[time-nuts] ***SPAM*** RS232 cables - thin connectors
After all the discussions about the cost of power, I'm getting my act together and replacing my old power hungry PCs with new/modern Atom boards. I found one that has 2 RS232 connectors. Looks good. http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-D2500CCE-Mini-ITX-Motherboard The catch is that they are only 0.625 inches apart and most of the connectors on my RS232 cables are just a bit thicker than that so I can't use both at the same time. Does anybody have a source of cables with thin connectors? Is there a magic term to google for? I think I tried filing one down a while ago. Modern plastics/rubber is really tough. Maybe I should try again with a better mechanical setup, maybe build a jig to hold it. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
I made the second on on this page some years ago and somehow it manages to survive the junk box. It only uses 2 transistors and 4 resistors and doesn't require an external power source. It it feeds the negative voltage through from the TD pin, so I don't think it can be used on full duplex. Of course you could probably add a diode and a supercap and fix that deficiency. http://www.scienceprog.com/alternatives-of-max232-in-low-budget-projects/ Bob - AE6RV From: ewkeh...@aol.com ewkeh...@aol.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RS 232 Bill Thank you I am only looking for a solution that is simple in Corby's case we used a separate power source, but the question is, is it necessary. That is why I brought it up to the list. Shopping for ideas. Bert In a message dated 7/25/2013 4:06:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wb6...@cox.net writes: Hi Bert, My attitude is if you are going to provide an RS-232 port then do it properly (min of +/- 3 volts max of +/- 25 volts). RS-232 is still a popular item in the hobby controller world, although USB is gaining ground. In so far as stability goes, RS-232 is much cleaner and easier to handle in the micro coding compared to USB. With that said, there is nothing wrong with providing both, it just makes the coding a bit harder. If you need long lines and want common mode suppression then utilize RS-485, a derivative of RS-232. You could also use TOSLINK, the fiber optic lines used in the audio field. The components are fairly cheap compared to other forms of plastic or glass (more expensive) fiber products. Most products will handle up to 5 MHz at reasonable distances. If you are careful in selecting the TX and RX port parts it can go up to 15 MHz at the top end, especially at short distances. Irrespective of all that, the power source has no relationship to the RS-232 or USB for that matter. 73BillWB6BNQ ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: I do not understand your question, I am referring to low noise applications like counters for dual mixers or other AV measurements, but also Shera and even Tbolt where external noise should be kept to a minimum. When you chase 1 E-14, isolation is key and I always like to err on the cautious side and as I stated we use blue tooth or USB but in the case of USB there are always H11 in the circuit. Some still like to use RS 232 and the subject came up and I have on my boards H11's like on the counter Corby uses but he ended up using an external power source and I like to eliminate that requirement. David had the right answer using the power that the RS 232 mouse uses out of a DB 9, started looking but I do not have one any more and I can not find any data. Bert In a message dated 7/25/2013 2:48:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: Hi Bert, I am sure your circuit is clear in your head, but would you mind attaching detail? You have perked my interest with the low-noise keyword ;) -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 11:39 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] RS 232 Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
Thank you Paul. This is exactly what I wanted to know, as I said I already use the opto couplers the only thing is where to get the power from for the transmitting side and you answered that. I will not use it but some others may. I will stay with opto USB.. In a message dated 7/25/2013 4:40:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, paulsw...@gmail.com writes: Bert I will add back in here. The max232 has the internal switching oscillator and that makes the noise. But you know that. So an external +/-supply linear is cheap and simple. Full wave bridge and 2 caps. No regulation needed. Using your opto isolator provides complete noise and electrical isolation. Computers are nasty beasts especially when you grab +/- power from the rs232 port. Some one re-confirmed my thinking that the rs 232 spec was +/-3V for noise margin. I think thats about all there is. Sorry if I am misunderstanding your need. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 4:34 PM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: Bill Thank you I am only looking for a solution that is simple in Corby's case we used a separate power source, but the question is, is it necessary. That is why I brought it up to the list. Shopping for ideas. Bert In a message dated 7/25/2013 4:06:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wb6...@cox.net writes: Hi Bert, My attitude is if you are going to provide an RS-232 port then do it properly (min of +/- 3 volts max of +/- 25 volts). RS-232 is still a popular item in the hobby controller world, although USB is gaining ground. In so far as stability goes, RS-232 is much cleaner and easier to handle in the micro coding compared to USB. With that said, there is nothing wrong with providing both, it just makes the coding a bit harder. If you need long lines and want common mode suppression then utilize RS-485, a derivative of RS-232. You could also use TOSLINK, the fiber optic lines used in the audio field. The components are fairly cheap compared to other forms of plastic or glass (more expensive) fiber products. Most products will handle up to 5 MHz at reasonable distances. If you are careful in selecting the TX and RX port parts it can go up to 15 MHz at the top end, especially at short distances. Irrespective of all that, the power source has no relationship to the RS-232 or USB for that matter. 73BillWB6BNQ ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: I do not understand your question, I am referring to low noise applications like counters for dual mixers or other AV measurements, but also Shera and even Tbolt where external noise should be kept to a minimum. When you chase 1 E-14, isolation is key and I always like to err on the cautious side and as I stated we use blue tooth or USB but in the case of USB there are always H11 in the circuit. Some still like to use RS 232 and the subject came up and I have on my boards H11's like on the counter Corby uses but he ended up using an external power source and I like to eliminate that requirement. David had the right answer using the power that the RS 232 mouse uses out of a DB 9, started looking but I do not have one any more and I can not find any data. Bert In a message dated 7/25/2013 2:48:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: Hi Bert, I am sure your circuit is clear in your head, but would you mind attaching detail? You have perked my interest with the low-noise keyword ;) -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 11:39 PM To:time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] RS 232 Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
Re: [time-nuts] USB - was RS 232
Do you have a good solution for USB? Not just a cable with an adapter and wires hanging out of it, but a clean solution. I had trouble finding USB B-type female chassis-mount connectors and wound up ordering one from some guy in the UK. It's actually an extender cable that can be chassis mounted, and I'll just strip the wires to hook it to a USB-TTL converter inside my GPSDO. But I'd like to know about something turnkey for the future. Bob - AE6RV From: Tim Shoppa tsho...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RS 232 A lot of these questions can be side-stepped today because few to no modern PC's have built in RS-232 serial ports. And if you are going to add a serial port you can just put in a RS-422 PCI card or RS-422 to USB interface instead. A big win, and it makes much more sense to leach +5V off of USB than it does to leach power off RS-232 control lines. Many time-nut devices are already RS-422 (e.g. Z3801A) serial and differential for PPS, and it makes little sense today to backhaul to RS-232 when a new PC won't have native RS-232 support anyway. Tim N3QE ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
Agreed, nobody should be using RS232 for anything nowadays. USB doesn't seem to cause noise problems in equipment that works at the -170 dBc/Hz and below level (ahem) so it will be good enough for most other sensitive applications, assuming good design/layout practices are followed. USB support chip manufacturers have a lot of experience supporting customers who need their USB devices to pass FCC, CE, and other worldwide EMI standards. There are a lot of good app notes and other literature out there. As far as what components to use, I'd suggest checking out www.ftdichip.com if you're looking for the proverbial path of least resistance. You can't get much simpler than an FTD232B. -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 12:32 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RS 232 I do not understand your question, I am referring to low noise applications like counters for dual mixers or other AV measurements, but also Shera and even Tbolt where external noise should be kept to a minimum. When you chase 1 E-14, isolation is key and I always like to err on the cautious side and as I stated we use blue tooth or USB but in the case of USB there are always H11 in the circuit. Some still like to use RS 232 and the subject came up and I have on my boards H11's like on the counter Corby uses but he ended up using an external power source and I like to eliminate that requirement. David had the right answer using the power that the RS 232 mouse uses out of a DB 9, started looking but I do not have one any more and I can not find any data. Bert In a message dated 7/25/2013 2:48:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: Hi Bert, I am sure your circuit is clear in your head, but would you mind attaching detail? You have perked my interest with the low-noise keyword ;) -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 11:39 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] RS 232 Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time- nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] USB - was RS 232
There are a bunch of little boards like these. This one has USB-B socket that faces your computers and TTL Serial that faces your project. When you plug your project into a computer the computer sees it as a serial port. https://www.sparkfun.com/products/718 If all you need is the USB-B connector then you can get free samples here http://www.molex.com/molex/products/datasheet.jsp?part=active/0548190519_IO_CONNECTORS.xmlchannel=ProductsLang=en-US If you don't like free the above place, Sparkfun will sell them for $1.50 On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: Do you have a good solution for USB? Not just a cable with an adapter and wires hanging out of it, but a clean solution. I had trouble finding USB B-type female chassis-mount connectors and wound up ordering one from some guy in the UK. It's actually an extender cable that can be chassis mounted, and I'll just strip the wires to hook it to a USB-TTL converter inside my GPSDO. But I'd like to know about something turnkey for the future. Bob - AE6RV From: Tim Shoppa tsho...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RS 232 A lot of these questions can be side-stepped today because few to no modern PC's have built in RS-232 serial ports. And if you are going to add a serial port you can just put in a RS-422 PCI card or RS-422 to USB interface instead. A big win, and it makes much more sense to leach +5V off of USB than it does to leach power off RS-232 control lines. Many time-nut devices are already RS-422 (e.g. Z3801A) serial and differential for PPS, and it makes little sense today to backhaul to RS-232 when a new PC won't have native RS-232 support anyway. Tim N3QE ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ***SPAM*** RS232 cables - thin connectors
Maybe low-profile rs232? Something like: http://www.cablestogo.com/product/52138 On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: After all the discussions about the cost of power, I'm getting my act together and replacing my old power hungry PCs with new/modern Atom boards. I found one that has 2 RS232 connectors. Looks good. http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-D2500CCE-Mini-ITX-Motherboard The catch is that they are only 0.625 inches apart and most of the connectors on my RS232 cables are just a bit thicker than that so I can't use both at the same time. Does anybody have a source of cables with thin connectors? Is there a magic term to google for? I think I tried filing one down a while ago. Modern plastics/rubber is really tough. Maybe I should try again with a better mechanical setup, maybe build a jig to hold it. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ***SPAM*** RS232 cables - thin connectors
Make your own cable from a bare DB-9 connector, solder and shrink tube. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Eric Williams wd6...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe low-profile rs232? Something like: http://www.cablestogo.com/product/52138 On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: After all the discussions about the cost of power, I'm getting my act together and replacing my old power hungry PCs with new/modern Atom boards. I found one that has 2 RS232 connectors. Looks good. http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-D2500CCE-Mini-ITX-Motherboard The catch is that they are only 0.625 inches apart and most of the connectors on my RS232 cables are just a bit thicker than that so I can't use both at the same time. Does anybody have a source of cables with thin connectors? Is there a magic term to google for? I think I tried filing one down a while ago. Modern plastics/rubber is really tough. Maybe I should try again with a better mechanical setup, maybe build a jig to hold it. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
Although your description, I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. Is a perfect circuit description, I'd be more confident with a schematic :) --marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Friday, 26 July 2013 5:32 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RS 232 I do not understand your question, I am referring to low noise applications like counters for dual mixers or other AV measurements, but also Shera and even Tbolt where external noise should be kept to a minimum. When you chase 1 E-14, isolation is key and I always like to err on the cautious side and as I stated we use blue tooth or USB but in the case of USB there are always H11 in the circuit. Some still like to use RS 232 and the subject came up and I have on my boards H11's like on the counter Corby uses but he ended up using an external power source and I like to eliminate that requirement. David had the right answer using the power that the RS 232 mouse uses out of a DB 9, started looking but I do not have one any more and I can not find any data. Bert In a message dated 7/25/2013 2:48:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: Hi Bert, I am sure your circuit is clear in your head, but would you mind attaching detail? You have perked my interest with the low-noise keyword ;) -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 11:39 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] RS 232 Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] USB - was RS 232
I'm looking for something more like this auction, but with a USB-TTL adapter on the back of the panel mount socket. When I was searching the only one of these I found was in the UK. http://www.ebay.com/itm/L-Com-Panel-Mount-USB-Cable-Type-B-Female-Panel-Mount-to-Type-B-Male-Connector-/310393118679?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4844df1fd7 From: Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com To: Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] USB - was RS 232 There are a bunch of little boards like these. This one has USB-B socket that faces your computers and TTL Serial that faces your project. When you plug your project into a computer the computer sees it as a serial port. https://www.sparkfun.com/products/718 If all you need is the USB-B connector then you can get free samples here http://www.molex.com/molex/products/datasheet.jsp?part=active/0548190519_IO_CONNECTORS.xmlchannel=ProductsLang=en-US If you don't like free the above place, Sparkfun will sell them for $1.50 On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: Do you have a good solution for USB? Not just a cable with an adapter and wires hanging out of it, but a clean solution. I had trouble finding USB B-type female chassis-mount connectors and wound up ordering one from some guy in the UK. It's actually an extender cable that can be chassis mounted, and I'll just strip the wires to hook it to a USB-TTL converter inside my GPSDO. But I'd like to know about something turnkey for the future. Bob - AE6RV From: Tim Shoppa tsho...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RS 232 A lot of these questions can be side-stepped today because few to no modern PC's have built in RS-232 serial ports. And if you are going to add a serial port you can just put in a RS-422 PCI card or RS-422 to USB interface instead. A big win, and it makes much more sense to leach +5V off of USB than it does to leach power off RS-232 control lines. Many time-nut devices are already RS-422 (e.g. Z3801A) serial and differential for PPS, and it makes little sense today to backhaul to RS-232 when a new PC won't have native RS-232 support anyway. Tim N3QE ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
Contact me off list and I will make a scetch In a message dated 7/25/2013 6:34:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: Although your description, I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. Is a perfect circuit description, I'd be more confident with a schematic :) --marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Friday, 26 July 2013 5:32 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RS 232 I do not understand your question, I am referring to low noise applications like counters for dual mixers or other AV measurements, but also Shera and even Tbolt where external noise should be kept to a minimum. When you chase 1 E-14, isolation is key and I always like to err on the cautious side and as I stated we use blue tooth or USB but in the case of USB there are always H11 in the circuit. Some still like to use RS 232 and the subject came up and I have on my boards H11's like on the counter Corby uses but he ended up using an external power source and I like to eliminate that requirement. David had the right answer using the power that the RS 232 mouse uses out of a DB 9, started looking but I do not have one any more and I can not find any data. Bert In a message dated 7/25/2013 2:48:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: Hi Bert, I am sure your circuit is clear in your head, but would you mind attaching detail? You have perked my interest with the low-noise keyword ;) -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 11:39 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] RS 232 Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
on some of my projects some prefer to use RS 232 and I am not arrogant enough to say that RS 232 is not an option but try to help them and that was why I asked the original question to make it for them as simple as possible. I combine opto with USB but if you want to run 10 devices at the same time as one time nut asked me about no one I asked had an answer. Bert Kehren In a message dated 7/25/2013 5:48:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, j...@miles.io writes: Agreed, nobody should be using RS232 for anything nowadays. USB doesn't seem to cause noise problems in equipment that works at the -170 dBc/Hz and below level (ahem) so it will be good enough for most other sensitive applications, assuming good design/layout practices are followed. USB support chip manufacturers have a lot of experience supporting customers who need their USB devices to pass FCC, CE, and other worldwide EMI standards. There are a lot of good app notes and other literature out there. As far as what components to use, I'd suggest checking out www.ftdichip.com if you're looking for the proverbial path of least resistance. You can't get much simpler than an FTD232B. -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 12:32 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RS 232 I do not understand your question, I am referring to low noise applications like counters for dual mixers or other AV measurements, but also Shera and even Tbolt where external noise should be kept to a minimum. When you chase 1 E-14, isolation is key and I always like to err on the cautious side and as I stated we use blue tooth or USB but in the case of USB there are always H11 in the circuit. Some still like to use RS 232 and the subject came up and I have on my boards H11's like on the counter Corby uses but he ended up using an external power source and I like to eliminate that requirement. David had the right answer using the power that the RS 232 mouse uses out of a DB 9, started looking but I do not have one any more and I can not find any data. Bert In a message dated 7/25/2013 2:48:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ma...@non-stop.com.au writes: Hi Bert, I am sure your circuit is clear in your head, but would you mind attaching detail? You have perked my interest with the low-noise keyword ;) -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 11:39 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] RS 232 Since joining time nuts over four years ago I have not used a single MAX 232 chip. Two reasons MAX do not give me isolation and do generate noise in critical applications. I prefer the use of two H11 opto couplers which work perfect. On the receiving end the diode along with a current limiter and blocking diode for the negative level works perfect. On the output side a power source is needed. If one uses an USB adapter it does have the + 5 volt which again works perfect. How ever many prefer to use RS 232 direct and that is why I hope to get some comments and suggestions from the list. Corby used on our counter circuit that he described a separate power source. Present MAX circuits use a + 1.4 volt threshold but considering legacy the question is what should the voltage swing be to make it compatible for most PC's and what options exist to get the necessary voltage. In the past other pins on the RS 232 port where an ideal power source. Still an option? Bert Kehren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time- nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
j...@miles.io said: Agreed, nobody should be using RS232 for anything nowadays. RS232 works much better for capturing PPS timing. Another advantage of RS232 over USB is that the configuration is stable when things get unplugged and replugged, or powered off, or ... Of course, that's a disadvantage if your program wants to know when the gizmo got unplugged. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] ***SPAM*** RS232 cables - thin connectors
Or mold some Polymorph https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10951 around the DB-9. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.comwrote: Make your own cable from a bare DB-9 connector, solder and shrink tube. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Eric Williams wd6...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe low-profile rs232? Something like: http://www.cablestogo.com/product/52138 On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: After all the discussions about the cost of power, I'm getting my act together and replacing my old power hungry PCs with new/modern Atom boards. I found one that has 2 RS232 connectors. Looks good. http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-D2500CCE-Mini-ITX-Motherboard The catch is that they are only 0.625 inches apart and most of the connectors on my RS232 cables are just a bit thicker than that so I can't use both at the same time. Does anybody have a source of cables with thin connectors? Is there a magic term to google for? I think I tried filing one down a while ago. Modern plastics/rubber is really tough. Maybe I should try again with a better mechanical setup, maybe build a jig to hold it. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] NTP to discipline Raspberry Pi
Hi James, We have done some measurements of the stability of the STC clocksource that the kernel relies on to build its system clock. I believe this link could be the answer to your question: http://www.synclab.org/?post=blog/2012/11/radclock-raspberry-stability-nic-noise.html Please note that these measurements are made with our custom kernel patches and bypass any kernel system clock PLL driven by ntpd. So the results have to be interpreted in this context -- especially, they do not rely on the nominal frequency reported by the clocksource. Cheers, Julien On 25/07/2013, at 1:21 PM, James Peroulas ja...@peroulas.com wrote: I was hoping to measure the ppm error of a Raspberry Pi's crystal using an NTP client running on the Pi itself. The NTP client reports a ppm correction that I find to be consistently (measurements performed over several days) off by about 10 ppm compared to what I measure using my GPS calibrated frequency counter (HP5328). Specifically, the Pi reports a required ppm correction of -33 ppm whereas I consistently measure a required correction of -43 ppm on my frequency counter. Any ideas on where I can look to track down the discrepancy? Perhaps the timers on the RPi are configured incorrectly in the kernel? Or is this the best I can expect from NTP? I would understand the situation if the NTP reported correction drifted above and below -43ppm, but it seldom departs from -33ppm by more than 1 or 2 ppm... Thanks, James P.S. I apologize if this isn't time-nutty enough :) I only need about 1ppm accuracy in my corrections :) -- *Integrity is a binary state - either you have it or you don’t.* - John Doerr ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Agilent / HP 117A on eBay...
I still would like to find one of the HP antenna's just for the looks. Even the 10509A with 13CW4's .. ok the FET version would be better. At least give those passing by something else to point at :-) -pete On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 7:09 AM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: I always wanted on, but with the intention of using it. To bad it's now useless now with the new WWVB format, otherwise I'd buy it. Antennas I got. Burt, K6OQK At 06:14 AM 7/25/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Would this box work with the new WWVB format? On 07/25/2013 04:07 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Oh my gosh, a 117A has popped up on eBay! Looks in pretty good condition given its age... Seller claims the antenna will be listed shortly! Item # 281141315740 --marki Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
Hi Hal, according to ntp.org the parallel port is also usable for PPS: http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/html/pps.html Also, Take a look at this gentleman's page (Chrome will translate): http://www.finetune.co.jp/~lyuka/interests/radio/gps/ there is quite a difference between the amount of jitter between the two interfaces! But, you know at the end of the Day, Anything over Ethernet network will slowly take apart the carefully built NTP server you built with its precision time source anyway :) Looking around, PPS over TTY is better supported and easier to interface. Where do we draw the line and say, enough is enough?! -marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Hal Murray Sent: Friday, 26 July 2013 9:17 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] RS 232 j...@miles.io said: Agreed, nobody should be using RS232 for anything nowadays. RS232 works much better for capturing PPS timing. Another advantage of RS232 over USB is that the configuration is stable when things get unplugged and replugged, or powered off, or ... Of course, that's a disadvantage if your program wants to know when the gizmo got unplugged. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Agilent / HP 117A on eBay...
Hi Pete, I have a 14 diameter choke ring GPS L1 with a big spike on the top of it, on the peak of the roof :) That certainly gets some stares! As the HP antenna is VLF, is the Antenna Huge? I can't reliably get WWVB in Australia. Lots of fading etcetera, or I'd be in there like a shot :) We do have a beer called VB hmmm.. --marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lancashire Sent: Friday, 26 July 2013 10:50 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Agilent / HP 117A on eBay... I still would like to find one of the HP antenna's just for the looks. Even the 10509A with 13CW4's .. ok the FET version would be better. At least give those passing by something else to point at :-) -pete On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 7:09 AM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: I always wanted on, but with the intention of using it. To bad it's now useless now with the new WWVB format, otherwise I'd buy it. Antennas I got. Burt, K6OQK At 06:14 AM 7/25/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Would this box work with the new WWVB format? On 07/25/2013 04:07 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Oh my gosh, a 117A has popped up on eBay! Looks in pretty good condition given its age... Seller claims the antenna will be listed shortly! Item # 281141315740 --marki Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listin fo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
Well lucks not so good do have the voltage closer but as Bob C said. That ain't the issue. Darn I hate when he is right. By the way the oscillator draws 26 ma approx as a reference. Reassembled everything and let the oven heat up it settles at 81C 15 min after start and within a respectable range of the temps listed in the service manual. Measured with a K thermocouple. Freq is at 9.55. or 45 Hz low Tuning the variable cap has 20 Hz range and the cap was pretty much center range. Have not played with the varicap but that should have a very small effect. I can easily adjust the temp setting R to raise the xtal temp. But that seems like a jerry rig. Could a xtal of this quality simply go bad over time? Somewhat at a loss here. I have a spare 10544 (Would not use the z3801 outer oven)and wonder if at least I could use that with the Z3801. Anyone know if the efc would work? Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Stefan Heinzmann stefan_heinzm...@gmx.dewrote: paul swed wrote: I can't believe you found the transistor. When I pulled it out last night, its actually a MPSA18!!! I had not had time to look it up but figured it was a ebay leftover hunt. :-) At that price I may order 20 of them. Like the gain. Toshiba used to make a transistor with even higher gain, the 2SC3112/2SC3113/2SC3295/**2SC4666 (same chip, different package). They discontinued it recently, however. Cheers Stefan __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Agilent / HP 117A on eBay...
The HP 117A antenna is a circular shielded loop, about 1 meter or 3' in diameter. I never bothered to measure it. It looks to be made out of roughly 1 OD aluminum electrical conduit components, a Tee at the top and a pull box at the bottom. There are three conduit sections, one a diameter that goes vertically from the bottom pull box to the top Tee. There are a pair of semicirllas, one on each side. The two side loop halved are insulated from the pull box as I remember. There is a picture in the 117A manual on the Agilent site, but no dimensions I saw. It is a crummy scan. The loop dimensions may be in a catalog of the period. It'd be fairly easy to replicate w/ a hand conduit bender, IMO. -John I never bothered Hi Pete, I have a 14 diameter choke ring GPS L1 with a big spike on the top of it, on the peak of the roof :) That certainly gets some stares! As the HP antenna is VLF, is the Antenna Huge? I can't reliably get WWVB in Australia. Lots of fading etcetera, or I'd be in there like a shot :) We do have a beer called VB hmmm.. --marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lancashire Sent: Friday, 26 July 2013 10:50 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Agilent / HP 117A on eBay... I still would like to find one of the HP antenna's just for the looks. Even the 10509A with 13CW4's .. ok the FET version would be better. At least give those passing by something else to point at :-) -pete On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 7:09 AM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: I always wanted on, but with the intention of using it. To bad it's now useless now with the new WWVB format, otherwise I'd buy it. Antennas I got. Burt, K6OQK At 06:14 AM 7/25/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Would this box work with the new WWVB format? On 07/25/2013 04:07 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Oh my gosh, a 117A has popped up on eBay! Looks in pretty good condition given its age... Seller claims the antenna will be listed shortly! Item # 281141315740 --marki Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listin fo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Agilent / HP 117A on eBay...
Marki the antennas are about 3 foot as I recall not huge, really. But Australia is a bit far away. I would think JJY might be better for you. That said to actually improve the signal at that distance build a serious loop. Mine is 10' by 10 ft 800 ft of wire and preamp. Does a heck of a job for the east coast of the US. Australia is large so you could go really big. :-) Seriously the larger the area the better. Though the limit seems to be the turns and the ability to tune the coil with a cap. There is a lot of good information on a site called vlf.it on loops. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.auwrote: Hi Pete, I have a 14 diameter choke ring GPS L1 with a big spike on the top of it, on the peak of the roof :) That certainly gets some stares! As the HP antenna is VLF, is the Antenna Huge? I can't reliably get WWVB in Australia. Lots of fading etcetera, or I'd be in there like a shot :) We do have a beer called VB hmmm.. --marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lancashire Sent: Friday, 26 July 2013 10:50 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Agilent / HP 117A on eBay... I still would like to find one of the HP antenna's just for the looks. Even the 10509A with 13CW4's .. ok the FET version would be better. At least give those passing by something else to point at :-) -pete On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 7:09 AM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: I always wanted on, but with the intention of using it. To bad it's now useless now with the new WWVB format, otherwise I'd buy it. Antennas I got. Burt, K6OQK At 06:14 AM 7/25/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Would this box work with the new WWVB format? On 07/25/2013 04:07 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Oh my gosh, a 117A has popped up on eBay! Looks in pretty good condition given its age... Seller claims the antenna will be listed shortly! Item # 281141315740 --marki Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listin fo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update
On 7/25/2013 8:32 PM, paul swed wrote: Well lucks not so good do have the voltage closer but as Bob C said. That ain't the issue. this may is a dumb question: Lower than expected frequency means some extra capacitance in parallel or not enough in series with the crystal... ? Would that put suspicion on C4 (0.1uF between crystal and Q1)? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Agilent / HP 117A on eBay...
I had one of those antennas some years ago. sold it to an outfit in Washington State (I was in Boston). IIRC, it was over $300 to ship it UPS due to the size. 73, Dick, W1KSZ On 7/25/2013 6:23 PM, paul swed wrote: Marki the antennas are about 3 foot as I recall not huge, really. But Australia is a bit far away. I would think JJY might be better for you. That said to actually improve the signal at that distance build a serious loop. Mine is 10' by 10 ft 800 ft of wire and preamp. Does a heck of a job for the east coast of the US. Australia is large so you could go really big. :-) Seriously the larger the area the better. Though the limit seems to be the turns and the ability to tune the coil with a cap. There is a lot of good information on a site called vlf.it on loops. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.auwrote: Hi Pete, I have a 14 diameter choke ring GPS L1 with a big spike on the top of it, on the peak of the roof :) That certainly gets some stares! As the HP antenna is VLF, is the Antenna Huge? I can't reliably get WWVB in Australia. Lots of fading etcetera, or I'd be in there like a shot :) We do have a beer called VB hmmm.. --marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lancashire Sent: Friday, 26 July 2013 10:50 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Agilent / HP 117A on eBay... I still would like to find one of the HP antenna's just for the looks. Even the 10509A with 13CW4's .. ok the FET version would be better. At least give those passing by something else to point at :-) -pete On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 7:09 AM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: I always wanted on, but with the intention of using it. To bad it's now useless now with the new WWVB format, otherwise I'd buy it. Antennas I got. Burt, K6OQK At 06:14 AM 7/25/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Would this box work with the new WWVB format? On 07/25/2013 04:07 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Oh my gosh, a 117A has popped up on eBay! Looks in pretty good condition given its age... Seller claims the antenna will be listed shortly! Item # 281141315740 --marki Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listin fo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Agilent / HP 117A on eBay...
I have made a number of effective loop antennas for various frequencies tuned with variable capacitors going into the gate of a FET. A large number of turns on a ferrite rod will tune to 60 KHz and pick up a good signal if located away from noise sources. Or you could get a Hula Loop and paint it orange or silver. On 07/25/2013 07:34 PM, Richard Solomon wrote: I had one of those antennas some years ago. sold it to an outfit in Washington State (I was in Boston). IIRC, it was over $300 to ship it UPS due to the size. 73, Dick, W1KSZ On 7/25/2013 6:23 PM, paul swed wrote: Marki the antennas are about 3 foot as I recall not huge, really. But Australia is a bit far away. I would think JJY might be better for you. That said to actually improve the signal at that distance build a serious loop. Mine is 10' by 10 ft 800 ft of wire and preamp. Does a heck of a job for the east coast of the US. Australia is large so you could go really big. :-) Seriously the larger the area the better. Though the limit seems to be the turns and the ability to tune the coil with a cap. There is a lot of good information on a site called vlf.it on loops. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.auwrote: Hi Pete, I have a 14 diameter choke ring GPS L1 with a big spike on the top of it, on the peak of the roof :) That certainly gets some stares! As the HP antenna is VLF, is the Antenna Huge? I can't reliably get WWVB in Australia. Lots of fading etcetera, or I'd be in there like a shot :) We do have a beer called VB hmmm.. --marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lancashire Sent: Friday, 26 July 2013 10:50 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Agilent / HP 117A on eBay... I still would like to find one of the HP antenna's just for the looks. Even the 10509A with 13CW4's .. ok the FET version would be better. At least give those passing by something else to point at :-) -pete On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 7:09 AM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: I always wanted on, but with the intention of using it. To bad it's now useless now with the new WWVB format, otherwise I'd buy it. Antennas I got. Burt, K6OQK At 06:14 AM 7/25/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Would this box work with the new WWVB format? On 07/25/2013 04:07 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Oh my gosh, a 117A has popped up on eBay! Looks in pretty good condition given its age... Seller claims the antenna will be listed shortly! Item # 281141315740 --marki Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listin fo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Agilent / HP 117A on eBay...
the side loops are insulated at the top to prevent forming aa shorted turn. It's a loop antenna that works on the magnetic field component of the incoming wave, rather than the electric field, like a whip. So, if you put a bunch of turns inside the loop of conduit, a complete loop of conduit will be a shorted secondary. J. Forster The HP 117A antenna is a circular shielded loop, about 1 meter or 3' in diameter. I never bothered to measure it. It looks to be made out of roughly 1 OD aluminum electrical conduit components, a Tee at the top and a pull box at the bottom. There are three conduit sections, one a diameter that goes vertically from the bottom pull box to the top Tee. There are a pair of semicirllas, one on each side. The two side loop halved are insulated from the pull box as I remember. There is a picture in the 117A manual on the Agilent site, but no dimensions I saw. It is a crummy scan. The loop dimensions may be in a catalog of the period. It'd be fairly easy to replicate w/ a hand conduit bender, IMO. -John I never bothered Hi Pete, I have a 14 diameter choke ring GPS L1 with a big spike on the top of it, on the peak of the roof :) That certainly gets some stares! As the HP antenna is VLF, is the Antenna Huge? I can't reliably get WWVB in Australia. Lots of fading etcetera, or I'd be in there like a shot :) We do have a beer called VB hmmm.. --marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lancashire Sent: Friday, 26 July 2013 10:50 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Agilent / HP 117A on eBay... I still would like to find one of the HP antenna's just for the looks. Even the 10509A with 13CW4's .. ok the FET version would be better. At least give those passing by something else to point at :-) -pete On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 7:09 AM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: I always wanted on, but with the intention of using it. To bad it's now useless now with the new WWVB format, otherwise I'd buy it. Antennas I got. Burt, K6OQK At 06:14 AM 7/25/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Would this box work with the new WWVB format? On 07/25/2013 04:07 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Oh my gosh, a 117A has popped up on eBay! Looks in pretty good condition given its age... Seller claims the antenna will be listed shortly! Item # 281141315740 --marki Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listin fo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
j...@miles.io said: Agreed, nobody should be using RS232 for anything nowadays. RS232 works much better for capturing PPS timing. Unless you are watching it with a ring-0 (kernel) driver, and/or using a hard realtime OS to run the client software, it really won't matter that much. Anyone running Windows or most flavors of Linux has more to worry about than the distinction between USB and RS-232, when it comes to latency. For truly critical applications it's best if the counter itself does the timestamping. For ordinary NTP use on Linux or Windows the distinction between RS232 and USB is pretty questionable. Submillisecond jitter has been documented in USB PPS applications (e.g., https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/thumbgps-devel/2012-March/000109.htm l ), albeit with unspecified latency. If that's not good enough, you need to tackle the issue somewhere besides the physical layer. Another advantage of RS232 over USB is that the configuration is stable when things get unplugged and replugged, or powered off, or ... Of course, that's a disadvantage if your program wants to know when the gizmo got unplugged. USB devices have gotten a bad reputation in this regard because of developers' failure to understand the idea behind serial numbers. As with noise immunity, it's possible to do it right, it's just that too many people don't bother. -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 8:40 PM, John Miles j...@miles.io wrote: j...@miles.io said: Agreed, nobody should be using RS232 for anything nowadays. RS232 works much better for capturing PPS timing. Unless you are watching it with a ring-0 (kernel) driver, and/or using a hard realtime OS to run the client software, it really won't matter that much. Anyone running Windows or most flavors of Linux has more to worry about than the distinction between USB and RS-232, when it comes to latency. In just normal UNIX (including Mac OS X) and linux you can see the difference in the log files between USB and RS232. There is three orders of magnitude difference. It's micro vs. milli seconds. But as this filters down to the application level, what are you using this timming informations for? Maybe you have a database and you are time tagging transactions? In that case maybe all you need is tenths of seconds. Who knows? THat is really what needs to be driing this process the end use of the data -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] RS 232
From: Chris Albertson [] In just normal UNIX (including Mac OS X) and linux you can see the difference in the log files between USB and RS232. There is three orders of magnitude difference. It's micro vs. milli seconds. [] Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California == Indeed! You can see a similar difference in Windows as well, and a difference between using user-mode and kernel-mode time-stamping of the PPS signal. Kernel mode is on the left, and user-mode on the right in this graph: http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/2009-05-17-Feenix_jitter.png and changing from user- to kernel-node on a different system: http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/plot_jitter.png These are from the page: http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/NTP-on-Windows-serial-port.html Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
