Re: [time-nuts] strange carrier
something like that is not a case for the FCC? 73 Alex On 11/16/2014 2:26 PM, Max Robinson wrote: Don't touch it. If you do you become responsible, in your neighbor's eyes, for any and all subsequent failures. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. - Original Message - From: "ed breya" To: Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] strange carrier A signal like that coming from a dish makes some sense to me. I vaguely recall from about ten years ago investigating how the satellite receivers work, that a fairly strong control signal of around 20 kHz was used in some to select the various LNBs and their polarizations in more complicated systems. This was passed via the cables superimposed on the DC power along with the returning IF signals between the set-top box and the dish units. If the neighbor's setup has a bad connection in a cable end, there could be a pretty strong third harmonic of a 20 kHz-ish signal leaking out, with a good-sized antenna possibly formed by maybe 50-100 feet of partly-opened cable shield, depending on the possible ground loop paths. Another possibility is if the LNB power line from the STB has lots of 20 kHz-ish noise on it from a failure in the local SMPS. If the possible faults were large, you would think it would be noticed as a reception problem by the neighbor, but maybe a partial problem is enough for you to see interference. If the interference is from the control signal, it would likely be derived from a uP clock, so quite stable, while if it's from SMPS switching, it should not be very stable, and also loaded with line frequency sidebands. If that is the case, maybe you could inform the neighbor so that they can fix the problem (or you fix it for them), thus improving their reception and reliability, and eliminating the interference. I could be entirely wrong on this, but your last post rang a bell in my head as soon as I saw "satellite dish." Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 "NO GPS"
But remember why it was used. If there was a failure of one of the modules,
it is necessary to do a hot swap of the defective module. Many of these cell
sites (and simulcast PS sites) have a spec on availability up time and MTBF.
Loss of site time reference counts as the site being down and goes against
your availability record.
For what we use them for, powering down to make the connection does not make
a difference.
Tom
- Original Message -
From: "Pete Lancashire"
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 "NO GPS"
... LED goes out ... I though so but just wanted to make sure. I've
purchased a 2nd set and will see how that behaves. Also ordered a few
of the DE-15 (if that is the correct way of saying it) connectors. The
short pin concept seems to have not been a great idea.
-pete
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
On all my box pairs, the “NO GPS” lights all go out on all boxes once
everything is “GOOD” as you define it. A properly operating pair will
have a STBY light (and only that light) on one box. The other box will
have only the ON light lit.
Based on what I’ve seen. I’d suspect the cable between the two units as
the source of (almost) any problem before I’d dig into the rest of the
system.
Bob
On Nov 16, 2014, at 3:29 PM, Pete Lancashire
wrote:
Like to confirm
It has been said ...
When you apply power, all the LEDs on the front panel will flash. The
"NO GPS" light will continue flashing until you connect a GPS antenna.
Once it sees a satellite, the light will stop flashing and remain on.
The unit will conduct a self-survey for several hours. Eventually, if
all is well, the Z3812A ("REF 0" on its front panel) will show one
green "ON" light and the Z3811A ("REF 1") will show one yellow "STBY"
light. This means that the Z3812A is actually transmitting its 15MHz
output, and the other one is silently waiting to take over if it
fails.
Is this correct about the "NO GPS" LED ?
Once the survey is over, and the GPS is considered to be "GOOD", should
the yellow NO GPS LED be lit ?
For me after being on for a while the LED for me are
REF 1
NO GPS ON solid - this is the one I'm asking about
Fault OFF
STBY ON
ON OFF
REF 0
NO GPS ON
FAULTOFF
STBY OFF
ON ON
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 "NO GPS"
Hi
I think having the connectors on hand for a new cable is a real good idea…..
Bob
> On Nov 16, 2014, at 3:53 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
>
> ... LED goes out ... I though so but just wanted to make sure. I've
> purchased a 2nd set and will see how that behaves. Also ordered a few
> of the DE-15 (if that is the correct way of saying it) connectors. The
> short pin concept seems to have not been a great idea.
>
> -pete
>
> On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> On all my box pairs, the “NO GPS” lights all go out on all boxes once
>> everything is “GOOD” as you define it. A properly operating pair will have
>> a STBY light (and only that light) on one box. The other box will have only
>> the ON light lit.
>>
>> Based on what I’ve seen. I’d suspect the cable between the two units as the
>> source of (almost) any problem before I’d dig into the rest of the system.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>> On Nov 16, 2014, at 3:29 PM, Pete Lancashire
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Like to confirm
>>>
>>> It has been said ...
When you apply power, all the LEDs on the front panel will flash. The
"NO GPS" light will continue flashing until you connect a GPS antenna.
Once it sees a satellite, the light will stop flashing and remain on.
The unit will conduct a self-survey for several hours. Eventually, if
all is well, the Z3812A ("REF 0" on its front panel) will show one
green "ON" light and the Z3811A ("REF 1") will show one yellow "STBY"
light. This means that the Z3812A is actually transmitting its 15MHz
output, and the other one is silently waiting to take over if it
fails.
>>>
>>> Is this correct about the "NO GPS" LED ?
>>>
>>> Once the survey is over, and the GPS is considered to be "GOOD", should
>>> the yellow NO GPS LED be lit ?
>>>
>>> For me after being on for a while the LED for me are
>>>
>>> REF 1
>>> NO GPS ON solid - this is the one I'm asking about
>>> Fault OFF
>>> STBY ON
>>> ON OFF
>>> REF 0
>>> NO GPS ON
>>> FAULTOFF
>>> STBY OFF
>>> ON ON
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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>> and follow the instructions there.
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] strange carrier
Don't touch it. If you do you become responsible, in your neighbor's eyes, for any and all subsequent failures. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. - Original Message - From: "ed breya" To: Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] strange carrier A signal like that coming from a dish makes some sense to me. I vaguely recall from about ten years ago investigating how the satellite receivers work, that a fairly strong control signal of around 20 kHz was used in some to select the various LNBs and their polarizations in more complicated systems. This was passed via the cables superimposed on the DC power along with the returning IF signals between the set-top box and the dish units. If the neighbor's setup has a bad connection in a cable end, there could be a pretty strong third harmonic of a 20 kHz-ish signal leaking out, with a good-sized antenna possibly formed by maybe 50-100 feet of partly-opened cable shield, depending on the possible ground loop paths. Another possibility is if the LNB power line from the STB has lots of 20 kHz-ish noise on it from a failure in the local SMPS. If the possible faults were large, you would think it would be noticed as a reception problem by the neighbor, but maybe a partial problem is enough for you to see interference. If the interference is from the control signal, it would likely be derived from a uP clock, so quite stable, while if it's from SMPS switching, it should not be very stable, and also loaded with line frequency sidebands. If that is the case, maybe you could inform the neighbor so that they can fix the problem (or you fix it for them), thus improving their reception and reliability, and eliminating the interference. I could be entirely wrong on this, but your last post rang a bell in my head as soon as I saw "satellite dish." Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 "NO GPS"
... LED goes out ... I though so but just wanted to make sure. I've
purchased a 2nd set and will see how that behaves. Also ordered a few
of the DE-15 (if that is the correct way of saying it) connectors. The
short pin concept seems to have not been a great idea.
-pete
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
> Hi
>
> On all my box pairs, the “NO GPS” lights all go out on all boxes once
> everything is “GOOD” as you define it. A properly operating pair will have a
> STBY light (and only that light) on one box. The other box will have only the
> ON light lit.
>
> Based on what I’ve seen. I’d suspect the cable between the two units as the
> source of (almost) any problem before I’d dig into the rest of the system.
>
> Bob
>
>> On Nov 16, 2014, at 3:29 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
>>
>> Like to confirm
>>
>> It has been said ...
>>> When you apply power, all the LEDs on the front panel will flash. The
>>> "NO GPS" light will continue flashing until you connect a GPS antenna.
>>> Once it sees a satellite, the light will stop flashing and remain on.
>>> The unit will conduct a self-survey for several hours. Eventually, if
>>> all is well, the Z3812A ("REF 0" on its front panel) will show one
>>> green "ON" light and the Z3811A ("REF 1") will show one yellow "STBY"
>>> light. This means that the Z3812A is actually transmitting its 15MHz
>>> output, and the other one is silently waiting to take over if it
>>> fails.
>>
>> Is this correct about the "NO GPS" LED ?
>>
>> Once the survey is over, and the GPS is considered to be "GOOD", should
>> the yellow NO GPS LED be lit ?
>>
>> For me after being on for a while the LED for me are
>>
>> REF 1
>> NO GPS ON solid - this is the one I'm asking about
>> Fault OFF
>> STBY ON
>> ON OFF
>> REF 0
>>NO GPS ON
>>FAULTOFF
>>STBY OFF
>>ON ON
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 "NO GPS"
Hi
On all my box pairs, the “NO GPS” lights all go out on all boxes once
everything is “GOOD” as you define it. A properly operating pair will have a
STBY light (and only that light) on one box. The other box will have only the
ON light lit.
Based on what I’ve seen. I’d suspect the cable between the two units as the
source of (almost) any problem before I’d dig into the rest of the system.
Bob
> On Nov 16, 2014, at 3:29 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
>
> Like to confirm
>
> It has been said ...
>> When you apply power, all the LEDs on the front panel will flash. The
>> "NO GPS" light will continue flashing until you connect a GPS antenna.
>> Once it sees a satellite, the light will stop flashing and remain on.
>> The unit will conduct a self-survey for several hours. Eventually, if
>> all is well, the Z3812A ("REF 0" on its front panel) will show one
>> green "ON" light and the Z3811A ("REF 1") will show one yellow "STBY"
>> light. This means that the Z3812A is actually transmitting its 15MHz
>> output, and the other one is silently waiting to take over if it
>> fails.
>
> Is this correct about the "NO GPS" LED ?
>
> Once the survey is over, and the GPS is considered to be "GOOD", should
> the yellow NO GPS LED be lit ?
>
> For me after being on for a while the LED for me are
>
> REF 1
> NO GPS ON solid - this is the one I'm asking about
> Fault OFF
> STBY ON
> ON OFF
> REF 0
>NO GPS ON
>FAULTOFF
>STBY OFF
>ON ON
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361
Hi Assuming all the pins are labeled correctly and your UART is not set up for an inverted input - that should not work. Since it does work, I’d bet on there being a labeling error somewhere. Bob > On Nov 16, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Mike Seguin wrote: > > I was having some problems with a couple of my laptops running WinXP and Win7 > 64 bit getting them to use Z38xx or SatStat50 to talk to the boxes. I was > using the 'RS-232 hack'. I suspected the levels weren't up to the standard my > laptop ports wanted to see. > > I pulled out an old "short haul" modem I had which is an RS-232 to RS-422 > converter. Wired it this way: > > Lucent to Modem > TX+ to RX- > TX- to RX+ > RX+ to TX- > RX- to TX+ > > Works great! No issues with the laptops/software now through Win7 64 bit. > > Mike > > -- > > 73, > Mike, N1JEZ > "A closed mouth gathers no feet" > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] KS-24361 "NO GPS"
Like to confirm
It has been said ...
>When you apply power, all the LEDs on the front panel will flash. The
>"NO GPS" light will continue flashing until you connect a GPS antenna.
>Once it sees a satellite, the light will stop flashing and remain on.
>The unit will conduct a self-survey for several hours. Eventually, if
>all is well, the Z3812A ("REF 0" on its front panel) will show one
>green "ON" light and the Z3811A ("REF 1") will show one yellow "STBY"
>light. This means that the Z3812A is actually transmitting its 15MHz
>output, and the other one is silently waiting to take over if it
>fails.
Is this correct about the "NO GPS" LED ?
Once the survey is over, and the GPS is considered to be "GOOD", should
the yellow NO GPS LED be lit ?
For me after being on for a while the LED for me are
REF 1
NO GPS ON solid - this is the one I'm asking about
Fault OFF
STBY ON
ON OFF
REF 0
NO GPS ON
FAULTOFF
STBY OFF
ON ON
___
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and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361
I was having some problems with a couple of my laptops running WinXP and Win7 64 bit getting them to use Z38xx or SatStat50 to talk to the boxes. I was using the 'RS-232 hack'. I suspected the levels weren't up to the standard my laptop ports wanted to see. I pulled out an old "short haul" modem I had which is an RS-232 to RS-422 converter. Wired it this way: Lucent to Modem TX+ to RX- TX- to RX+ RX+ to TX- RX- to TX+ Works great! No issues with the laptops/software now through Win7 64 bit. Mike -- 73, Mike, N1JEZ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent Unit Differences
Hi > On Nov 14, 2014, at 2:55 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts > wrote: > > List, > > Wrote [Snip] The chain in the Z3810 / 3811 / 3812 Lucent > boxes is *much* different than the setup in the earlier parts. The phase noise > and ADEV on the Z3810’s is better than what you got on the earlier versions. > > That’s good to know. I only have the older style units. It > will be interesting see how well the older units can be *tweeked*. > > [Snip] The 15 MHz buffer appears to be quiet and puts out a > lot of power. > > Power yes, but the waveform is highly distorted. Not on the units I have. It’s a pretty good looking signal on them. What are you seeing? > > [Snip] Using it for 10 MHz would give you a *lot* of 10 MHz > signal to play with. IF the mods are simple it’s an attractive solution. If it > involves swapping out 30 parts - > > That is the idea. Hack (in my case) the 10 MHz from the oscillator into the > 15 MHz > circuit. There are two i5 MHz filters to > be bypassed or replaced. >From what I’ve seen, the circuits in the boxes have almost no resemblance at >all to each other. A solution for Efratom / Datum designed boxes would not be >a solution for the HP designed \ boxes. . > > The Modifying The Lucent Rubidium article uses just two > resistors to reduce overdriving and a surplus ethernet 10 MHz to reduce spurs. > > I don’t know how applicable it would be to the newer boxes\\ They most certainly have a 5 MHz output OCXO in the HP designed boxes. A quick probe with a scope is all it takes to verify this. The Z3810/11/12 is a 5 MHz based design. Bob > but putting a load resistor on the output and using a scope should give one a > good idea if a mod is needed. > > Regards, > > Perrier > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
