Re: [time-nuts] WWVB Dephaser Question

[Graham / KE9H]

Paul:

The easiest way to convert a single sample into an I-Q representation is to
have a two phase local oscillator.
You multiply the incoming signal against the primary phase output of the
oscillator for the I channel,
and multiply the same sample against the 90 degree offset output for the Q
channel.

The quadrature oscillator can be as simple as two sine look-up tables,
whose entries are shifted by 90 degrees.
The only math is in the sample multiply, and creating the look up tables to
start with.

If there is a ratio of integers relationship between the sampling rate and
the desired local oscillator frequency, then you can get a real clean
implementation with reasonably small look-up tables.  When running there is
no transcendental math involved, just a simple multiply.

--- Graham

==

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 7:37 PM paul swed  wrote:

> Antenna and filtering are not a problem for me. I use the 10' X 10' square
> loop and about 800' of wire with a cap to resonate at 60 KHz and then a
> preamp really to drive 140' of coax. Currently using a modified KD2BD
> receiver frontend but using a 350 Hz xtal filter. Yes indeed that hamfest
> find was amazing.
>
> Looks like you have to build a costa loop SDR. Looked at lots of documents.
> My first question to the group.
> Can a single incoming sample be converted to I & Q through math. I sort of
> think so. The original sample might be I and then use math to make Q. That
> would save an entire analog chain. The teensy has a single chain for mic
> level input. Though it does feed left and right channels. Granted there are
> two audio chains at line level.
>
> The teensy has a NCO that can create a quadrature output. The alternate
> would be to use that to drive analog switches as a multiplier to form I & Q
> samples.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
>
>
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units" by V.Bottom

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi,

If I where able to do that with helping hands in a lab and get a few
crystals that actually work and produce oscillating oscillators, even if
the frequency and Q isn't anything near stellar, that would still have
value. It would be gained experience, but not really anyway near
production quality knowledge.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 2020-10-25 00:14, Bob kb8tq wrote:
> Hi
>
> The gotcha is that if you want to *use* what’s in that book ( I have a copy 
> and
> went to the course back in the 1970’s) the first step is to grab a chunk of 
> quartz.
> Next you head over to your X-ray setup and work out what you have. After that 
> you go over to the saw and chop some raw blanks. Next you put them on the lap 
> and get the faces parallel. You know you got that right when the optical 
> bench 
> shows the right number of light fringes on the blank. 
>
> At this point you are still far from having a crystal resonator that you can 
> use. 
> However you are at the point the book stops helping you. You now need other
> information that comes from other sources. A lot of it is in papers from the 
> Frequency
> Control Symposium. Some of it is in books published back in the 1920’s and 
> 1930’s. 
>
> After you have done the intermediate work to shape the blank and do all of 
> that 
> stuff, you need to plate on the electrodes and get it on frequency. After 
> that it needs 
> to be sealed in a package. Depending on the process you decide to use that 
> could 
> mean access to a couple million dollars of custom made gear. 
>
> After it’s sealed up (and possibly processed a bit after seal) you test it to 
> see how
> you did. Some number will be ok, the rest head into the trash. The good ones 
> go 
> into oscillators. Is that 5% or is that 80% … depends on what you are after ….
>
> Bob
>
>> On Oct 24, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Ben Bradley  wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 10:55 PM Wes  wrote:
>>> Not exactly the same book but the same author:
>>>
>>> "Introduction to quartz crystal unit design"  There seems to be a copy in 
>>> the UK
>>   I see several copies of this in the $20 range on bookfinder.com,
>> click "view all matches combined" at the link below. The title "The
>> Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units" only shows up on Worldcat,
>> so appears to be much harder to get, so it's surely much more
>> expensive if you find it.
>>
>> https://www.bookfinder.com/search/?title=Introduction+to+Quartz+Crystal+Unit+Design=en=xl=qr
>>
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units" by V.Bottom

[jimlux]

On 10/24/20 3:14 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote:



After it’s sealed up (and possibly processed a bit after seal) you test it to 
see how
you did. Some number will be ok, the rest head into the trash. The good ones go
into oscillators. Is that 5% or is that 80% … depends on what you are after ….

Bob



The guys at APL told me that they start 1000 blanks to get a dozen USOs 
for space, of which 4 will actually be packaged as flight units.


That's for a "gotta be the best" sort of application.

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB Dephaser Question

[jimlux]

On 10/24/20 3:53 PM, paul swed wrote:

Antenna and filtering are not a problem for me. I use the 10' X 10' square
loop and about 800' of wire with a cap to resonate at 60 KHz and then a
preamp really to drive 140' of coax. Currently using a modified KD2BD
receiver frontend but using a 350 Hz xtal filter. Yes indeed that hamfest
find was amazing.

Looks like you have to build a costa loop SDR. Looked at lots of documents.
My first question to the group.
Can a single incoming sample be converted to I & Q through math. I sort of
think so. The original sample might be I and then use math to make Q. That
would save an entire analog chain. The teensy has a single chain for mic
level input. Though it does feed left and right channels. Granted there are
two audio chains at line level.

The teensy has a NCO that can create a quadrature output. The alternate
would be to use that to drive analog switches as a multiplier to form I & Q
samples.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


The classic way to get I/Q is to sample at 4 times the desired rate, 
then, given that your input samples are x(1),x(2),x(3),x(4), etc. the 
I/Q streams are


I(1) = X(1)
Q(1) = X(2)
I(2) = -X(3)
Q(2) = -X(4)
I(3) = X(5)
Q(3) = X(6)
I(4) = -X(7)
Q(4) = -X(8)

and so forth.

This will put your signal right in the middle of the sampling bandwidth.



___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Query about insulated coax panel connectors?

[Robert LaJeunesse]

If panel and connector sizes permit a small single hole panel mount connector 
can be insulated with a fiber shoulder washer and a flat fiber washer.
https://www.keyelco.com/category.cfm/Shoulder-Washers-Bushings/Fibre-Shoulder-Washers/id/813
https://www.keyelco.com/category.cfm/Washers/Nylon-Fibre-and-Steel-Washers/p/448/id/712/c_id/714

Alternately a piece of PCB material with copper removed can become an 
insulating mount, with the connector poking out through an oversize panel hole. 
Yes, now you need to mount the PCB somehow (2-4 screws?). But one piece of PCB 
stock can hold multiple connectors, making that a bit easier.

Bob L.


> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 at 2:24 PM
> From: "AC0XU (Jim)" 
> To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] Query about insulated coax panel connectors?
>
> Time-nuts:
>
> Having recently run into major ground loop noise issues, I have begun 
> reworking some of my homemade pieces of equipment using insulated coax 
> connectors. My goal is to have one ground connection only in the cases, and 
> that is at the power entry point, either a power cord or the outer terminal 
> of a DIN. I am also installing isolation baluns on inputs and/or outputs.
>
> Insulated BNCs are readily available. Others not so. In some cases, there is 
> not room to install an insulated BNC. I am not finding any insulated SMA, 
> SMC,  SSMA, or SSMC despite googling and searching catalogs.
>
> Does anyone know of a source for insulated small threaded coax panel 
> connectors?
>
> Another option would be a compact insulating bushing that an SMA panel 
> connector, for example, could be mounted in. I am not finding anything like 
> that either...  In fact the ideal solution would be an insulated SMA with an 
> integrated 1:1 balun.
>
> And I am not thinking about using plastic cases - that would introduce a 
> whole other set of problems. I think about my lab area at work where a bundle 
> of dozens of gigabit ethernet cables run through the roof directly over the 
> lab bench - the ambient noise level is quite high.
>
> Suggestions???
>
> The only idea I have some up with is to design something myself, possibly 3-D 
> printed...  Any suggestions about how to get started on something like that?
>
> Thanks in advance-
> Jim


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB Dephaser Question

[paul swed]

Antenna and filtering are not a problem for me. I use the 10' X 10' square
loop and about 800' of wire with a cap to resonate at 60 KHz and then a
preamp really to drive 140' of coax. Currently using a modified KD2BD
receiver frontend but using a 350 Hz xtal filter. Yes indeed that hamfest
find was amazing.

Looks like you have to build a costa loop SDR. Looked at lots of documents.
My first question to the group.
Can a single incoming sample be converted to I & Q through math. I sort of
think so. The original sample might be I and then use math to make Q. That
would save an entire analog chain. The teensy has a single chain for mic
level input. Though it does feed left and right channels. Granted there are
two audio chains at line level.

The teensy has a NCO that can create a quadrature output. The alternate
would be to use that to drive analog switches as a multiplier to form I & Q
samples.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 2:05 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:

> Hello Time Nuts and Paul Again,
>
> Paul - Have you thought about adding a 2nd audio board for the orthogonal
> antenna?:
>
> https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy3_audio.html
>
> I think adding a 2nd audio board could work for this possibly - of course
> with the correct antenna set up.
>
> Note the setup they have further down that page for 4-channel audio
> (Quad).  I think something similar could
> work for BPSK.
>
> 73's,
> John
> AJ6BC
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 8:34 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Time Nuts and Paul,
> >
> > Glad to hear you're making progress - of course, as Chris Howard
> mentioned
> > earlier - it's all based on this as a starting point:
> >
> > https://github.com/DD4WH/Teensy-DCF77
> >
> > and Chris' work is here:
> >
> > https://github.com/chris-elfpen/Teensy4WWVBsdr
> >
> > Those sites are good to look at and review as well.
> >
> > I still think some work will be needed to get a good signal in on the
> Line
> > In channel.
> >
> > 73's,
> > John
> > AJ6BC
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 6:45 PM paul swed  wrote:
> >
> >> John I was looking for a lot of things around BPSK and SDR and more.
> >> Had not hit this repository yet. But it has the piles of functions that
> >> would be useful. I noted it had a I & Q oscillator. So maybe the way
> this
> >> all works is you grab these functions and line them up. In looking at
> the
> >> wwvb SDR for AM mentioned here by Chris thats what I had started to
> >> understand.
> >> Really slowly getting the barest grasp on what a project might look
> like.
> >> With respect to the wwvb AM SDR receiver it does not look like any of
> the
> >> code would be used for solving the BPSK problem. That is not throwing
> >> stones by the way. It did nicely prove that a signal could come in and
> be
> >> processed through numbers of steps. It does work.
> >> My next step is to keep learning and then start to tinker with some of
> the
> >> modules in this library or even simpler the audio library for the pjrc
> >> shield. Audio in digitise and then back out. Much like the super simple
> >> arduino blinky program you have to start someplace.
> >> Regards
> >> Paul
> >> WB8TSL
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 7:55 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> >> j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hello Time Nuts,
> >> >
> >> > The code that has been previously discussed in this thread is posted
> >> here,
> >> > in case some of you didn't know and could be wondering about it:
> >> >
> >> > https://github.com/chipaudette/OpenAudio_ArduinoLibrary
> >> >
> >> > It's for the Teensy boards and WWV(B/H) SDR.
> >> >
> >> > 73's,
> >> > John
> >> > AJ6BC
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 12:27 AM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> >> > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Hello Time Nuts,
> >> > >
> >> > > FYI:  Teensy NTP server found here:
> >> > > https://github.com/ddrown/teensy-ntp
> >> > >
> >> > > 73's,
> >> > > John
> >> > > AJ6BC
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 1:16 PM paul swed 
> >> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> The teensy arrived and was easily installed in the arduino IDE.
> >> Worked
> >> > >> right off the bat.
> >> > >> The wiring of the A/D and the TFT display is a bit less clear. I
> have
> >> > all
> >> > >> of the details but need to go over them carefully. The teensy 4.0
> is
> >> > >> slightly different in the pins used as compared to the various
> >> > >> documentation on the wwvb receiver. I will guess this is going to
> >> have
> >> > an
> >> > >> effect in the actual program.
> >> > >> Regards
> >> > >> Paul
> >> > >> WB8TSL
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 12:06 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> >> > >> j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> > Hello Time Nuts,
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Maybe this should be added to this thread - this page is actually
> >> > pretty
> >> > >> > good:
> >> > >> 

Re: [time-nuts] Query about insulated coax panel connectors?

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Mini-circuits will sell you the transformers already in a box. Needless to say,
they do charge a bit for that. Occasionally, you can find them on eBay for
a more rational price. 

If you are going the DIY route, incorporating a couple of common mode
chokes on both sides of the transformer is probably a good idea. Once 
you get rid of 60Hz, the next problem is all the crud your cell phone or 
WiFi device is spouting …..

Bob

> On Oct 24, 2020, at 6:35 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> Jim
> A couple of other suggestions.
> A 1:1 Mini circuits transformer external to the unit They are quite small
> and offer electrical isolation also. Use a small pomona box etc.
> Another possibility is the typical RCA phono jack and plug. They come in
> insulated models. Understanding its not 50 ohms but the discontinuity
> length is pretty short.
> Good luck and what you are doing does work.
> I actually use the small 100 bT ethernet transformers from China. DIP size
> two to a 14 pin package. Seriously does the job something like 500 Vac
> isolation and no ground loops. They are inexpensive or at least were. 10 X
> $2 or something silly and had been free shipping. Who knows these days.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> 
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 4:44 PM AC0XU (Jim) 
> wrote:
> 
>> Time-nuts:
>> 
>> Having recently run into major ground loop noise issues, I have begun
>> reworking some of my homemade pieces of equipment using insulated coax
>> connectors. My goal is to have one ground connection only in the cases, and
>> that is at the power entry point, either a power cord or the outer terminal
>> of a DIN. I am also installing isolation baluns on inputs and/or outputs.
>> 
>> Insulated BNCs are readily available. Others not so. In some cases, there
>> is not room to install an insulated BNC. I am not finding any insulated
>> SMA, SMC,  SSMA, or SSMC despite googling and searching catalogs.
>> 
>> Does anyone know of a source for insulated small threaded coax panel
>> connectors?
>> 
>> Another option would be a compact insulating bushing that an SMA panel
>> connector, for example, could be mounted in. I am not finding anything like
>> that either...  In fact the ideal solution would be an insulated SMA with
>> an integrated 1:1 balun.
>> 
>> And I am not thinking about using plastic cases - that would introduce a
>> whole other set of problems. I think about my lab area at work where a
>> bundle of dozens of gigabit ethernet cables run through the roof directly
>> over the lab bench - the ambient noise level is quite high.
>> 
>> Suggestions???
>> 
>> The only idea I have some up with is to design something myself, possibly
>> 3-D printed...  Any suggestions about how to get started on something like
>> that?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance-
>> Jim
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
> <20F001N.pdf>___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Query about insulated coax panel connectors?

[paul swed]

Jim
A couple of other suggestions.
A 1:1 Mini circuits transformer external to the unit They are quite small
and offer electrical isolation also. Use a small pomona box etc.
Another possibility is the typical RCA phono jack and plug. They come in
insulated models. Understanding its not 50 ohms but the discontinuity
length is pretty short.
Good luck and what you are doing does work.
I actually use the small 100 bT ethernet transformers from China. DIP size
two to a 14 pin package. Seriously does the job something like 500 Vac
isolation and no ground loops. They are inexpensive or at least were. 10 X
$2 or something silly and had been free shipping. Who knows these days.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 4:44 PM AC0XU (Jim) 
wrote:

> Time-nuts:
>
> Having recently run into major ground loop noise issues, I have begun
> reworking some of my homemade pieces of equipment using insulated coax
> connectors. My goal is to have one ground connection only in the cases, and
> that is at the power entry point, either a power cord or the outer terminal
> of a DIN. I am also installing isolation baluns on inputs and/or outputs.
>
> Insulated BNCs are readily available. Others not so. In some cases, there
> is not room to install an insulated BNC. I am not finding any insulated
> SMA, SMC,  SSMA, or SSMC despite googling and searching catalogs.
>
> Does anyone know of a source for insulated small threaded coax panel
> connectors?
>
> Another option would be a compact insulating bushing that an SMA panel
> connector, for example, could be mounted in. I am not finding anything like
> that either...  In fact the ideal solution would be an insulated SMA with
> an integrated 1:1 balun.
>
> And I am not thinking about using plastic cases - that would introduce a
> whole other set of problems. I think about my lab area at work where a
> bundle of dozens of gigabit ethernet cables run through the roof directly
> over the lab bench - the ambient noise level is quite high.
>
> Suggestions???
>
> The only idea I have some up with is to design something myself, possibly
> 3-D printed...  Any suggestions about how to get started on something like
> that?
>
> Thanks in advance-
> Jim
>
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.
>


20F001N.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units" by V.Bottom

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

The gotcha is that if you want to *use* what’s in that book ( I have a copy and
went to the course back in the 1970’s) the first step is to grab a chunk of 
quartz.
Next you head over to your X-ray setup and work out what you have. After that 
you go over to the saw and chop some raw blanks. Next you put them on the lap 
and get the faces parallel. You know you got that right when the optical bench 
shows the right number of light fringes on the blank. 

At this point you are still far from having a crystal resonator that you can 
use. 
However you are at the point the book stops helping you. You now need other
information that comes from other sources. A lot of it is in papers from the 
Frequency
Control Symposium. Some of it is in books published back in the 1920’s and 
1930’s. 

After you have done the intermediate work to shape the blank and do all of that 
stuff, you need to plate on the electrodes and get it on frequency. After that 
it needs 
to be sealed in a package. Depending on the process you decide to use that 
could 
mean access to a couple million dollars of custom made gear. 

After it’s sealed up (and possibly processed a bit after seal) you test it to 
see how
you did. Some number will be ok, the rest head into the trash. The good ones go 
into oscillators. Is that 5% or is that 80% … depends on what you are after ….

Bob

> On Oct 24, 2020, at 5:27 PM, Ben Bradley  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 10:55 PM Wes  wrote:
>> Not exactly the same book but the same author:
>> 
>> "Introduction to quartz crystal unit design"  There seems to be a copy in 
>> the UK
> 
>   I see several copies of this in the $20 range on bookfinder.com,
> click "view all matches combined" at the link below. The title "The
> Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units" only shows up on Worldcat,
> so appears to be much harder to get, so it's surely much more
> expensive if you find it.
> 
> https://www.bookfinder.com/search/?title=Introduction+to+Quartz+Crystal+Unit+Design=en=xl=qr
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Query about insulated coax panel connectors?

[Michael Wouters]

Dear Jim

These, in conjunction with some M6 nylon washers, work OK for
isolating an SMA bulkhead feedthrough from the case:
https://www.minikits.com.au/components/hardware/washers/Metric-M6-Washers
(the nylon shoulder washers down the bottom)
The connector will rotate though if you try to torque up the SMA nut -
you can really only make them finger tight.

Otherwise, you can buy isolated bulkhead feedthroughs eg
https://www.fccable.com/SMA-Female-To-SMA-Female-Bulkhead-Isolated-Ground-Adapter/2068/A1636/
or
https://www.centricrf.com/adapters/sma-adapters/sma-to-sma-bulkhead-adapters-18ghz/c3150b-sma-f-f-isolated-ground-bulkhead-adapter/
I never found anything cheaper than about $US20 per connector.

Cheers
Michael


On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 7:44 AM AC0XU (Jim)  wrote:
>
> Time-nuts:
>
> Having recently run into major ground loop noise issues, I have begun 
> reworking some of my homemade pieces of equipment using insulated coax 
> connectors. My goal is to have one ground connection only in the cases, and 
> that is at the power entry point, either a power cord or the outer terminal 
> of a DIN. I am also installing isolation baluns on inputs and/or outputs.
>
> Insulated BNCs are readily available. Others not so. In some cases, there is 
> not room to install an insulated BNC. I am not finding any insulated SMA, 
> SMC,  SSMA, or SSMC despite googling and searching catalogs.
>
> Does anyone know of a source for insulated small threaded coax panel 
> connectors?
>
> Another option would be a compact insulating bushing that an SMA panel 
> connector, for example, could be mounted in. I am not finding anything like 
> that either...  In fact the ideal solution would be an insulated SMA with an 
> integrated 1:1 balun.
>
> And I am not thinking about using plastic cases - that would introduce a 
> whole other set of problems. I think about my lab area at work where a bundle 
> of dozens of gigabit ethernet cables run through the roof directly over the 
> lab bench - the ambient noise level is quite high.
>
> Suggestions???
>
> The only idea I have some up with is to design something myself, possibly 3-D 
> printed...  Any suggestions about how to get started on something like that?
>
> Thanks in advance-
> Jim
>
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units" by V.Bottom

[Dave Daniel]

Try Dave Henderson at Artek Manuals. He does the best job scanning things.

DaveD

> On Oct 24, 2020, at 15:12, Mike Feher  wrote:
> 
> This did not make it the first time because I had attached photos that were
> too large. I have an original copy of Don Firth's publication on "Quartz
> crystal oscillator circuits design handbook". This was developed under a
> government contract by the US Army. Don was a friend while I was at
> Magnavox. It was delivered in March of 1965. This may be the only remaining
> original copy. Since I also found it on Amazon, I guess there is no harm in
> sharing it. It uses comb binding, with most of the plastic broken off, but
> the book is excellent. It is 1&1/2 inch thick with almost 500 pages and
> weighs a ton. I would be willing to send it to someone in the states who is
> trust worthy, for scanning, and they then can return it to me. The one shown
> on Amazon is not available. Regards - Mike 
> 
> Mike B. Feher, N4FS
> 89 Arnold Blvd.
> Howell NJ 07731
> 848-245-9115
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of Attila
> Kinali
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 5:11 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> 
> Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal
> Units" by V.Bottom
> 
> Moin,
> 
> I'm again hunting for some old stuff. Quite a few older papers, books and
> technotes (including an article by Bernd Neubig from 1978) reference
> V.Bottom's "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units"
> from 1974
> 
> Unfortunately, the internet does not seem to have that, neither could I find
> it in any library I have access to. Does someone know where that was
> published, or who might have a copy of it?
> 
>Attila Kinali
> 
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units" by V.Bottom

[Ben Bradley]

On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 10:55 PM Wes  wrote:
> Not exactly the same book but the same author:
>
> "Introduction to quartz crystal unit design"  There seems to be a copy in the 
> UK

   I see several copies of this in the $20 range on bookfinder.com,
click "view all matches combined" at the link below. The title "The
Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units" only shows up on Worldcat,
so appears to be much harder to get, so it's surely much more
expensive if you find it.

https://www.bookfinder.com/search/?title=Introduction+to+Quartz+Crystal+Unit+Design=en=xl=qr

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units" by V.Bottom

[Dave Daniel]

It may not be current, but IMHO it would not be a waste of time read it.  If 
one wants to extend the knowledge gained from reading the the book to include 
more current theory I am sure that additional resources could be found.

DaveD

> On Oct 24, 2020, at 07:43, Attila Kinali  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 23 Oct 2020 19:32:16 -0400
> Bob kb8tq  wrote:
> 
>> This book is an introduction to designing AT cut resonators. It came out
>> before the SC existed. It’s very much a “starter” book on the subject. He
>> would do a 1 to 3 day training session and the book was a giveaway as
>> part of those sessions. 
> 
> So, you are saying between Matthys, Frerking, Rhea, Cerda and Parzen
> there isn't much value in this book?
> 
> Cool, that helps. Thanks!
> 
>Attila Kinali
> 
> -- 
> The bad part of Zurich is where the degenerates
>throw DARK chocolate at you.
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units" by V.Bottom

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

> On Oct 24, 2020, at 7:43 AM, Attila Kinali  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 23 Oct 2020 19:32:16 -0400
> Bob kb8tq  wrote:
> 
>> This book is an introduction to designing AT cut resonators. It came out
>> before the SC existed. It’s very much a “starter” book on the subject. He
>> would do a 1 to 3 day training session and the book was a giveaway as
>> part of those sessions. 
> 
> So, you are saying between Matthys, Frerking, Rhea, Cerda and Parzen
> there isn't much value in this book?

Those authors pretty much only focus on *oscillator* design. ( = electronics).
Bottom is a “crystal guy”. He focuses pretty much only on how to chop up
a chunk of quartz to get this or that result ( = frequency, temp coef, size, Q 
).
Very different areas of interest and not a lot of “crossing over” between them.

So no, it you are looking to come up with an addition to your oscillator design 
library, go looking for a copy of one of Dr Rhode’s books rather than one by
Bottom. 

Bob

> 
> Cool, that helps. Thanks!
> 
>   Attila Kinali
> 
> -- 
>   The bad part of Zurich is where the degenerates
>throw DARK chocolate at you.
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units" by V.Bottom

[Clint Jay]

There's a copy of Introduction to Quartz Crystal Unit Design by Virgil E
Bottom for sale on thriftbooks.com but it's available to "borrow" on
Archive.org and there are several copies of Theory and Design listed in
various US university libraries on worldcat.org perhaps a friendly faculty
member or student could be of assistance?



On Sat, 24 Oct 2020, 00:21 Attila Kinali,  wrote:

> Moin,
>
> I'm again hunting for some old stuff. Quite a few older papers,
> books and technotes (including an article by Bernd Neubig from 1978)
> reference V.Bottom's "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units"
> from 1974
>
> Unfortunately, the internet does not seem to have that, neither
> could I find it in any library I have access to. Does someone
> know where that was published, or who might have a copy of it?
>
> Attila Kinali
> --
> The bad part of Zurich is where the degenerates
> throw DARK chocolate at you.
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.
>
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] SMPS or conventional?

[John Moran, Scawby Design]

From: ed breya 
To: mailto:time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] SMPS or conventional?

"Regarding TEC life, ..."

A really good reference to TECs, especially factors affecting lifetime is here -

https://tetech.com/faqs/

John 


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] Query about insulated coax panel connectors?

[AC0XU (Jim)]

Time-nuts:

Having recently run into major ground loop noise issues, I have begun reworking 
some of my homemade pieces of equipment using insulated coax connectors. My 
goal is to have one ground connection only in the cases, and that is at the 
power entry point, either a power cord or the outer terminal of a DIN. I am 
also installing isolation baluns on inputs and/or outputs.

Insulated BNCs are readily available. Others not so. In some cases, there is 
not room to install an insulated BNC. I am not finding any insulated SMA, SMC,  
SSMA, or SSMC despite googling and searching catalogs.

Does anyone know of a source for insulated small threaded coax panel connectors?

Another option would be a compact insulating bushing that an SMA panel 
connector, for example, could be mounted in. I am not finding anything like 
that either...  In fact the ideal solution would be an insulated SMA with an 
integrated 1:1 balun.

And I am not thinking about using plastic cases - that would introduce a whole 
other set of problems. I think about my lab area at work where a bundle of 
dozens of gigabit ethernet cables run through the roof directly over the lab 
bench - the ambient noise level is quite high.

Suggestions???

The only idea I have some up with is to design something myself, possibly 3-D 
printed...  Any suggestions about how to get started on something like that?

Thanks in advance-
Jim



___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units" by V.Bottom

[Mike Feher]

This did not make it the first time because I had attached photos that were
too large. I have an original copy of Don Firth's publication on "Quartz
crystal oscillator circuits design handbook". This was developed under a
government contract by the US Army. Don was a friend while I was at
Magnavox. It was delivered in March of 1965. This may be the only remaining
original copy. Since I also found it on Amazon, I guess there is no harm in
sharing it. It uses comb binding, with most of the plastic broken off, but
the book is excellent. It is 1&1/2 inch thick with almost 500 pages and
weighs a ton. I would be willing to send it to someone in the states who is
trust worthy, for scanning, and they then can return it to me. The one shown
on Amazon is not available. Regards - Mike 

Mike B. Feher, N4FS
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell NJ 07731
848-245-9115

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of Attila
Kinali
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 5:11 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal
Units" by V.Bottom

Moin,

I'm again hunting for some old stuff. Quite a few older papers, books and
technotes (including an article by Bernd Neubig from 1978) reference
V.Bottom's "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units"
from 1974

Unfortunately, the internet does not seem to have that, neither could I find
it in any library I have access to. Does someone know where that was
published, or who might have a copy of it?

Attila Kinali


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Quantum Time Dilation

[Bill Byrom]

A reasonably simple description of this paper was released by Scientific 
American today:

Quantum Time Twist Offers a Way to Create Schrödinger’s Clock
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/quantum-time-twist-offers-a-way-to-create-schroedingers-clock/

The Schrödinger’s Cat thought experiment imagined placing an object in a 
quantum superposition of two states (cat is alive / cat is dead). The object 
exists in a superposition of those two states until it is "observed" or 
measured. This can be thought of as a repudiation of something we assume to be 
part of our reality -- counterfactual definiteness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfactual_definiteness

You can also imagine putting an object into a superposition of two proper 
times. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_time
The main topic of the Nature article is placing a clock into into a 
superposition of different velocities, which results in a superposition of the 
different time dilations due to special relativity. This would result in a 
non-classical result when measuring the clock (atom or ion) in an experiment. 
--
Bill Byrom N5BB



On Fri, Oct 23, 2020, at 6:13 AM, John Moran, Scawby Design wrote:
> It's been mentioned many times here that Time-Nuts are continually chasing 
> down the more and more esoteric effects that make their clocks less than 
> perfectly accurate. I wonder whether any of them have got their clocks to the 
> state where corrections to quantum effects are now in their sights?
> 
> The paper linked here in Nature Communications explains the upcoming problem -
> 
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18264-4
> 
> Unfortunately, my mathematical skills are not up to working out the magnitude 
> of any errors.
> 
> John 
> 
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.
> 
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units" by V.Bottom

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

>From what I can see, all are essentially editions of the same book, updated
as he continued to do his classes. 

Bob

> On Oct 23, 2020, at 9:50 PM, Wes  wrote:
> 
> Attila,
> 
> Amazon says (Out of print):
> 
> * Publisher : McMurray Press; 1st Edition (January 1, 1968)
> * Language: : English
> * ASIN : B0007H97C8
> 
> 
> Not exactly the same book but the same author:
> 
> "Introduction to quartz crystal unit design"  There seems to be a copy in the 
> UK
> 
> https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30743123492_ven=sws_cat=sws_pla=sws_ite=30743123492=Qzn1vAxnixyLUx7wUx0Mo3bxUkExvSymuVekS80_mmc=aff-_-ir-_-353196-_-77798=imprad353196_sr=impact
> 
> Also for what it's worth:
> 
> https://archive.org/details/introductiontoqubott/page/n9/mode/2up?q=introduction+to+quartz+crystal+unit+design
> 
> Wes  N7WS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/23/2020 2:11 PM, Attila Kinali wrote:
>> Moin,
>> 
>> I'm again hunting for some old stuff. Quite a few older papers,
>> books and technotes (including an article by Bernd Neubig from 1978)
>> reference V.Bottom's "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units"
>> from 1974
>> 
>> Unfortunately, the internet does not seem to have that, neither
>> could I find it in any library I have access to. Does someone
>> know where that was published, or who might have a copy of it?
>> 
>>  Attila Kinali
> 
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] 5065A Rb Cavity RX - SRD Repair

[Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts]

Thanks for the picture. The small coax link cable is even more brown  
than the one i my cavity  

I did realize that it should be possible to test the diode  
using a 20k/V resistance meter. There has been no more "hick-ups"  
and what the cause was is unknown, but many repair sessionscan of course have 
worn the SMB/SMC-connectors.  

Best Regards  


Ulf Kylenfall  
SM6GXV  








___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units" by V.Bottom

[jimlux]

On 10/23/20 6:50 PM, Wes wrote:

Attila,

Amazon says (Out of print):

  * Publisher : McMurray Press; 1st Edition (January 1, 1968)
  * Language: : English
  * ASIN : B0007H97C8


Not exactly the same book but the same author:

"Introduction to quartz crystal unit design"  There seems to be a copy 
in the UK


https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30743123492_ven=sws_cat=sws_pla=sws_ite=30743123492=Qzn1vAxnixyLUx7wUx0Mo3bxUkExvSymuVekS80_mmc=aff-_-ir-_-353196-_-77798=imprad353196_sr=impact 



Also for what it's worth:

https://archive.org/details/introductiontoqubott/page/n9/mode/2up?q=introduction+to+quartz+crystal+unit+design 



Wes  N7WS





In the United States, for works protected by US Copyright, a library can 
make single copies of a book that is out of print or not easily 
available for use by a single person for research purposes (i.e. not 
resale or further duplication)

(that's a gist, not the actual law, but it's close)

Only libraries can do this.
And I don't know if it applies to books published somewhere other than 
the US. This is how I got a copy of Snelling, Soft Ferrites, 2nd edition 
- JPL library found a copy somewhere, and had it copied. And it's 
published by Heinemann, which is a UK publisher, so maybe it's ok.







On 10/23/2020 2:11 PM, Attila Kinali wrote:

Moin,

I'm again hunting for some old stuff. Quite a few older papers,
books and technotes (including an article by Bernd Neubig from 1978)
reference V.Bottom's "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units"
from 1974

Unfortunately, the internet does not seem to have that, neither
could I find it in any library I have access to. Does someone
know where that was published, or who might have a copy of it?

    Attila Kinali



___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com

and follow the instructions there.



___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for "The Theory and Design of Quartz Crystal Units" by V.Bottom

[Attila Kinali]

On Fri, 23 Oct 2020 19:32:16 -0400
Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> This book is an introduction to designing AT cut resonators. It came out
> before the SC existed. It’s very much a “starter” book on the subject. He
> would do a 1 to 3 day training session and the book was a giveaway as
> part of those sessions. 

So, you are saying between Matthys, Frerking, Rhea, Cerda and Parzen
there isn't much value in this book?

Cool, that helps. Thanks!

Attila Kinali

-- 
The bad part of Zurich is where the degenerates
throw DARK chocolate at you.

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB Dephaser Question

[John C. Westmoreland, P.E.]

Hello Time Nuts and Paul,

Glad to hear you're making progress - of course, as Chris Howard mentioned
earlier - it's all based on this as a starting point:

https://github.com/DD4WH/Teensy-DCF77

and Chris' work is here:

https://github.com/chris-elfpen/Teensy4WWVBsdr

Those sites are good to look at and review as well.

I still think some work will be needed to get a good signal in on the Line
In channel.

73's,
John
AJ6BC


On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 6:45 PM paul swed  wrote:

> John I was looking for a lot of things around BPSK and SDR and more.
> Had not hit this repository yet. But it has the piles of functions that
> would be useful. I noted it had a I & Q oscillator. So maybe the way this
> all works is you grab these functions and line them up. In looking at the
> wwvb SDR for AM mentioned here by Chris thats what I had started to
> understand.
> Really slowly getting the barest grasp on what a project might look like.
> With respect to the wwvb AM SDR receiver it does not look like any of the
> code would be used for solving the BPSK problem. That is not throwing
> stones by the way. It did nicely prove that a signal could come in and be
> processed through numbers of steps. It does work.
> My next step is to keep learning and then start to tinker with some of the
> modules in this library or even simpler the audio library for the pjrc
> shield. Audio in digitise and then back out. Much like the super simple
> arduino blinky program you have to start someplace.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 7:55 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Time Nuts,
> >
> > The code that has been previously discussed in this thread is posted
> here,
> > in case some of you didn't know and could be wondering about it:
> >
> > https://github.com/chipaudette/OpenAudio_ArduinoLibrary
> >
> > It's for the Teensy boards and WWV(B/H) SDR.
> >
> > 73's,
> > John
> > AJ6BC
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 12:27 AM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Time Nuts,
> > >
> > > FYI:  Teensy NTP server found here:
> > > https://github.com/ddrown/teensy-ntp
> > >
> > > 73's,
> > > John
> > > AJ6BC
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 1:16 PM paul swed  wrote:
> > >
> > >> The teensy arrived and was easily installed in the arduino IDE. Worked
> > >> right off the bat.
> > >> The wiring of the A/D and the TFT display is a bit less clear. I have
> > all
> > >> of the details but need to go over them carefully. The teensy 4.0 is
> > >> slightly different in the pins used as compared to the various
> > >> documentation on the wwvb receiver. I will guess this is going to have
> > an
> > >> effect in the actual program.
> > >> Regards
> > >> Paul
> > >> WB8TSL
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 12:06 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > >> j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Hello Time Nuts,
> > >> >
> > >> > Maybe this should be added to this thread - this page is actually
> > pretty
> > >> > good:
> > >> >
> > >> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB
> > >> >
> > >> > 73's,
> > >> > John
> > >> > AJ6BC
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 12:50 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > >> > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Hello Time Nuts,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Paul, I haven't gone over in fine detail of how the multipsk
> > software
> > >> is
> > >> > > working - so I'd like to answer with that caveat if that's OK.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I thought it was more interesting that I got anything working as
> far
> > >> as
> > >> > > 60kHz with my existing OpenHPSDR rig AND my default antenna.
> > >> > > The system wasn't really designed for that - and it worked.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I'll dig into some of the details and report back - since the time
> > >> > > information is all that is needed for clock synchronization - I
> > think
> > >> the
> > >> > > easiest method available is more than likely what was done.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > It agrees with the GPS feed from Themis - so, that's a good check.
> > >> Also,
> > >> > > Themis is driving the reference clock for the HPSDR rig.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > 73's,
> > >> > > John
> > >> > > AJ6BC
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 12:20 PM paul swed 
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > >> John I looked at what you sent. I assume its decoding the am time
> > >> signal
> > >> > >> is
> > >> > >> that correct?
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 1:19 PM Chris Howard 
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> >
> > >> > >> > That's a fair assessment.  I'm really not very far into SDR
> > >> > programming,
> > >> > >> > would like to learn more.
> > >> > >> >
> > >> > >> > I was working with someone who gave me a way forward toward
> > >> > >> > using the same hardware to do the BPSK demodulation, but I want
> > >> > >> > to get his OK before I spread 

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB Dephaser Question

[John C. Westmoreland, P.E.]

Hello Time Nuts and Paul Again,

Paul - Have you thought about adding a 2nd audio board for the orthogonal
antenna?:

https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy3_audio.html

I think adding a 2nd audio board could work for this possibly - of course
with the correct antenna set up.

Note the setup they have further down that page for 4-channel audio
(Quad).  I think something similar could
work for BPSK.

73's,
John
AJ6BC



On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 8:34 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:

> Hello Time Nuts and Paul,
>
> Glad to hear you're making progress - of course, as Chris Howard mentioned
> earlier - it's all based on this as a starting point:
>
> https://github.com/DD4WH/Teensy-DCF77
>
> and Chris' work is here:
>
> https://github.com/chris-elfpen/Teensy4WWVBsdr
>
> Those sites are good to look at and review as well.
>
> I still think some work will be needed to get a good signal in on the Line
> In channel.
>
> 73's,
> John
> AJ6BC
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 6:45 PM paul swed  wrote:
>
>> John I was looking for a lot of things around BPSK and SDR and more.
>> Had not hit this repository yet. But it has the piles of functions that
>> would be useful. I noted it had a I & Q oscillator. So maybe the way this
>> all works is you grab these functions and line them up. In looking at the
>> wwvb SDR for AM mentioned here by Chris thats what I had started to
>> understand.
>> Really slowly getting the barest grasp on what a project might look like.
>> With respect to the wwvb AM SDR receiver it does not look like any of the
>> code would be used for solving the BPSK problem. That is not throwing
>> stones by the way. It did nicely prove that a signal could come in and be
>> processed through numbers of steps. It does work.
>> My next step is to keep learning and then start to tinker with some of the
>> modules in this library or even simpler the audio library for the pjrc
>> shield. Audio in digitise and then back out. Much like the super simple
>> arduino blinky program you have to start someplace.
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 7:55 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
>> j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello Time Nuts,
>> >
>> > The code that has been previously discussed in this thread is posted
>> here,
>> > in case some of you didn't know and could be wondering about it:
>> >
>> > https://github.com/chipaudette/OpenAudio_ArduinoLibrary
>> >
>> > It's for the Teensy boards and WWV(B/H) SDR.
>> >
>> > 73's,
>> > John
>> > AJ6BC
>> >
>> > On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 12:27 AM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
>> > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hello Time Nuts,
>> > >
>> > > FYI:  Teensy NTP server found here:
>> > > https://github.com/ddrown/teensy-ntp
>> > >
>> > > 73's,
>> > > John
>> > > AJ6BC
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 1:16 PM paul swed 
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> The teensy arrived and was easily installed in the arduino IDE.
>> Worked
>> > >> right off the bat.
>> > >> The wiring of the A/D and the TFT display is a bit less clear. I have
>> > all
>> > >> of the details but need to go over them carefully. The teensy 4.0 is
>> > >> slightly different in the pins used as compared to the various
>> > >> documentation on the wwvb receiver. I will guess this is going to
>> have
>> > an
>> > >> effect in the actual program.
>> > >> Regards
>> > >> Paul
>> > >> WB8TSL
>> > >>
>> > >> On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 12:06 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
>> > >> j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > Hello Time Nuts,
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Maybe this should be added to this thread - this page is actually
>> > pretty
>> > >> > good:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB
>> > >> >
>> > >> > 73's,
>> > >> > John
>> > >> > AJ6BC
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 12:50 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
>> > >> > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > Hello Time Nuts,
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Paul, I haven't gone over in fine detail of how the multipsk
>> > software
>> > >> is
>> > >> > > working - so I'd like to answer with that caveat if that's OK.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > I thought it was more interesting that I got anything working as
>> far
>> > >> as
>> > >> > > 60kHz with my existing OpenHPSDR rig AND my default antenna.
>> > >> > > The system wasn't really designed for that - and it worked.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > I'll dig into some of the details and report back - since the
>> time
>> > >> > > information is all that is needed for clock synchronization - I
>> > think
>> > >> the
>> > >> > > easiest method available is more than likely what was done.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > It agrees with the GPS feed from Themis - so, that's a good
>> check.
>> > >> Also,
>> > >> > > Themis is driving the reference clock for the HPSDR rig.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > 73's,
>> > >> > > John
>> > >> > > AJ6BC
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >>