RE: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Shapira, Yoav

Hi,

What are you thoughts on a JBoss 4 setup?  Do you still
recommend staying away from Apache?

I don't have thoughts on JBoss 4 setup.

I recommend what I always have: evaluate your needs carefully and don't
make design or deployment decisions, such as placing Apache in front of
tomcat, because of something you once heard/read somewhere three years
ago.  There are cases where Apache in front of tomcat is invaluable, and
there are just as many cases where it's a hindrance.

Yoav shapira


--- Shapira, Yoav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Howdy,
 I'm using it in production, no issues.  But then again I steer
 clear of
 the practices that tend to cause issues frequently: I don't
 redeploy my
 apps in production (when I ship a new version I do so during
 our
 maintenance window and restart the server), I profile and test
 carefully
 for memory leaks, I don't use apache in front of tomcat, I do
 use a
 security manager, I do deploy and run only packed WARs,
 nothing
 reloadable or auto-deployed...

 Yoav Shapira
 Millennium ChemInformatics


 -Original Message-
 From: Johannes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 4:43 PM
 To: Tomcat Users List
 Subject: TC 5 production use
 
 hi there,
 
 I saw TC5.0.18 is marked stable on the Tomcat-Website
 (production
 quality). Is anybody using TC 5.0.x in production already ?
 Did any
 remarkable issues arise?
 
 thx
 Johannes



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RE: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Evgeny Gesin
Yoav,
I use Apache in front of Tomcat a long ago and see no
problems? BTW, Apache executes all static content,
such as image files. Why you don't recommend Apache?

-- Evgeny
Javadesk


--- Shapira, Yoav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 What are you thoughts on a JBoss 4 setup?  Do you
 still
 recommend staying away from Apache?
 
 I don't have thoughts on JBoss 4 setup.
 
 I recommend what I always have: evaluate your needs
 carefully and don't
 make design or deployment decisions, such as placing
 Apache in front of
 tomcat, because of something you once heard/read
 somewhere three years
 ago.  There are cases where Apache in front of
 tomcat is invaluable, and
 there are just as many cases where it's a hindrance.
 
 Yoav shapira
 
 
 --- Shapira, Yoav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Howdy,
  I'm using it in production, no issues.  But then
 again I steer
  clear of
  the practices that tend to cause issues
 frequently: I don't
  redeploy my
  apps in production (when I ship a new version I
 do so during
  our
  maintenance window and restart the server), I
 profile and test
  carefully
  for memory leaks, I don't use apache in front of
 tomcat, I do
  use a
  security manager, I do deploy and run only packed
 WARs,
  nothing
  reloadable or auto-deployed...
 
  Yoav Shapira
  Millennium ChemInformatics
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Johannes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 4:43 PM
  To: Tomcat Users List
  Subject: TC 5 production use
  
  hi there,
  
  I saw TC5.0.18 is marked stable on the
 Tomcat-Website
  (production
  quality). Is anybody using TC 5.0.x in
 production already ?
  Did any
  remarkable issues arise?
  
  thx
  Johannes
 
 
 
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 addressed,
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 or used by
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 computer
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 Sun Certified Java 1.1 Programmer
 Appriss, Inc.
 ICQ# 26487421
 AIM NorrisEShelton
 YIM norrisshelton
 
 
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RE: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Shapira, Yoav

Hi,

I use Apache in front of Tomcat a long ago and see no
problems? BTW, Apache executes all static content,
such as image files. Why you don't recommend Apache?

Again, that's not what I said.  You just have to evaluate your
requirements carefully.  Various factors like the content mix (%static
vs. %dynamic), scalability requirements, SSL load, and others all figure
into this decision.

For better or worse, the connectors between Apache and Tomcat not always
easy to set up.  It's by far the most common question/problem reported
on this list.  But part of the reason it's such a common topic is
because more people are using it than should be.  Not coincidentally,
many of these people are ones who read somewhere once that tomcat is not
a production-quality HTTP server, or that you have to put Apache in
front for production installations, and didn't bother to
verify/confirm/benchmark this assertion before following it blindly.

Yoav Shapira



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RE: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Evgeny Gesin
Hi,

--- Shapira, Yoav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Again, that's not what I said.  You just have to
 evaluate your
 requirements carefully.  Various factors like the
 content mix (%static
 vs. %dynamic), scalability requirements, SSL load,
 and others all figure
 into this decision.

Apache is web server, but Tomcat is not, while
technically Tomcat can serve html and other docs.
Apache also provides more configuration options for
scalability, security, etc.
 
 For better or worse, the connectors between Apache
 and Tomcat not always easy to set up.  It's by far
 the most common question/problem reported
 on this list.

It is not a problem with JK connector, I don't use
JK2.

 But part of the reason it's such a common topic is
 because more people are using it than should be. 
 Not coincidentally, many of these people are ones
 who read somewhere once that tomcat is not
 a production-quality HTTP server, or that you have
 to put Apache in front for production installations,
 and didn't bother to verify/confirm/benchmark this
 assertion before following it blindly.

Those arguments sound as rumour, and of course should
not be used for serious decisions. At least Tomcat
4.1.29 is a good production version.

Yoav, you provide a great contribution to this list,
thank you very much!

-- Evgeny
Javadesk

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Re: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Daniel Gibby
If only tomcat had the mod_rewrite capabilities that apache does, and 
strong perl and php performance, I would be glad to trash mod_jk (thus 
getting rid of apache as well).

Are there any good rewrite-like capabilities available for URL matching 
/ rewriting that someone could share?
I'm sure a filter could be made to do the work that I need... but I also 
would need to be able to have multiple virtual hosts use the same code 
base, without having actually separate apps.

I have cobrands / private labels of my site with just one tomcat app 
running. So I have like 50 apache virtual hosts that really just write 
additional data to the query string using mod_rewrite. It works pretty 
spiffy, but it isn't elegant. My java application code partially relies 
on either the hostname (in the case that I didn't use mod_rewrite) or 
the query string that was passed in from mod_rewrite for a key to what 
the code should do within just one code base from just one running 
tomcat app.

I guess part of my problem is that I don't have knowledge as to whether 
tomcat's virtual hosts can be wildcarded to accept multiple 
*.domainname.com hosts all within one app. Is that possible with tomcat? 
Is it part of the spec? I wouldn't know where to look to find out.

Ideas on how to get rid of the mod_rewrite portion using a tomcat filter 
or something?

Daniel Gibby

Shapira, Yoav wrote:

Hi,

 

I use Apache in front of Tomcat a long ago and see no
problems? BTW, Apache executes all static content,
such as image files. Why you don't recommend Apache?
   

Again, that's not what I said.  You just have to evaluate your
requirements carefully.  Various factors like the content mix (%static
vs. %dynamic), scalability requirements, SSL load, and others all figure
into this decision.  

For better or worse, the connectors between Apache and Tomcat not always
easy to set up.  It's by far the most common question/problem reported
on this list.  But part of the reason it's such a common topic is
because more people are using it than should be.  Not coincidentally,
many of these people are ones who read somewhere once that tomcat is not
a production-quality HTTP server, or that you have to put Apache in
front for production installations, and didn't bother to
verify/confirm/benchmark this assertion before following it blindly.
Yoav Shapira



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Re: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Josh Rehman
Daniel Gibby wrote:
If only tomcat had the mod_rewrite capabilities that apache does, and 
strong perl and php performance, I would be glad to trash mod_jk (thus 
getting rid of apache as well).
Would this work for you as a mod_rewrite replacement?

	http://noodle.tigris.org/

(perl  php support in any servlet container seems...unlikely :)

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RE: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Shapira, Yoav

Hi,

Apache is web server, but Tomcat is not, while

Tomcat is a web server: all that a piece of software needs to do in
order to be a web server is implement the HTTP protocol, which tomcat
does.

It is not a problem with JK connector, I don't use
JK2.

It's not a problem for you, and not for me, but it is for many people.

Yoav, you provide a great contribution to this list,
thank you very much!

No problem, glad to help.

Yoav Shapira



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RE: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Shapira, Yoav

Hi,

If only tomcat had the mod_rewrite capabilities that apache does, and
strong perl and php performance, I would be glad to trash mod_jk (thus
getting rid of apache as well).

This is a good example of something that hits on Apache's strong points:
perl, mod_php, rewriting.  So it's probably good for you to use Apache.
But many people on this list come here because they work with servlets
and JSPs, and maybe some static content.  In many of those cases, Apache
is not needed.  And in no case should it be added without careful
thought and consideration, as it's a significant architecture piece.

Are there any good rewrite-like capabilities available for URL matching
/ rewriting that someone could share?

Consider tomcat5's balancer webapp.

I have cobrands / private labels of my site with just one tomcat app

That's great, but please keep this thread on-topic.  If you want some
sort of help with your specific scenario, start another thread ;)

Yoav Shapira



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Re: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Daniel Gibby
Also, I definitely don't want to be changing the configuration whenever 
I have a new partner that needs another cobranded version of the webapp 
(meaning I would need to give them their own hostname or subdomain... 
Can tomcat be setup to allow a VirtualHost to accept multiple domain names?

Daniel Gibby wrote:

I guess part of my problem is that I don't have knowledge as to 
whether tomcat's virtual hosts can be wildcarded to accept multiple 
*.domainname.com hosts all within one app. Is that possible with 
tomcat? Is it part of the spec? I wouldn't know where to look to find 
out.



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RE: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Tom . Williams





One issue I've had with using an Apache front-end to Tomcat 4 and 5 is
having to restart Apache if I need to restart Tomcat.  So, if I have Apache
2 w/ mod_jk2 connected to Tomcat 5 and I deploy a new webapp using the
Tomcat Manager web interface I have to restart Tomcat after using the
Tomcat Administration web interface to configure the data source for the
newly deployed web app.   Once I restart Tomcat, I can't connect via the
Apache front-end until I bounce Apache.  Then all is well.

Using Apache or IIS as a front end is attractive since I can hide the
backend Tomcat container(s) I connect to from the user using the web app.
I can control which container gets used through the mod_jk properties file.
I was really bummed when I learned I had to bounce the web server after
bouncnig Tomcat since the mod_jk (or mod_jk2) connector ceased to properly
connect without boucing the web server.

Peace...

Tom



   
 Evgeny Gesin  
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 o.com To 
   Tomcat Users List   
 04/09/2004 11:26  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 AM cc 
   
   Subject 
 Please respond to RE: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use 
   Tomcat Users   
   List   
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  rta.apache.org  
   
   




Hi,

--- Shapira, Yoav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Again, that's not what I said.  You just have to
 evaluate your
 requirements carefully.  Various factors like the
 content mix (%static
 vs. %dynamic), scalability requirements, SSL load,
 and others all figure
 into this decision.

Apache is web server, but Tomcat is not, while
technically Tomcat can serve html and other docs.
Apache also provides more configuration options for
scalability, security, etc.

 For better or worse, the connectors between Apache
 and Tomcat not always easy to set up.  It's by far
 the most common question/problem reported
 on this list.

It is not a problem with JK connector, I don't use
JK2.

 But part of the reason it's such a common topic is
 because more people are using it than should be.
 Not coincidentally, many of these people are ones
 who read somewhere once that tomcat is not
 a production-quality HTTP server, or that you have
 to put Apache in front for production installations,
 and didn't bother to verify/confirm/benchmark this
 assertion before following it blindly.

Those arguments sound as rumour, and of course should
not be used for serious decisions. At least Tomcat
4.1.29 is a good production version.

Yoav, you provide a great contribution to this list,
thank you very much!

-- Evgeny
Javadesk

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RE: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Tom . Williams





Is Tomcat considered to *be* a web server vs *having* a web server?  I
thought the HTTP connector was the way to connect HTTP clients (browsers)
to the JSP/Servlet container.

Peace...

Tom



   
 Shapira, Yoav   
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 .com  To 
   Tomcat Users List 
 04/09/2004 11:31  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 AM cc 
   
   Subject 
 Please respond to RE: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use 
   Tomcat Users   
   List   
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  rta.apache.org  
   
   





Hi,

Apache is web server, but Tomcat is not, while

Tomcat is a web server: all that a piece of software needs to do in
order to be a web server is implement the HTTP protocol, which tomcat
does.

It is not a problem with JK connector, I don't use
JK2.

It's not a problem for you, and not for me, but it is for many people.

Yoav, you provide a great contribution to this list,
thank you very much!

No problem, glad to help.

Yoav Shapira



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RE: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Shapira, Yoav

Hi,

(perl  php support in any servlet container seems...unlikely :)

PHP, not so unlikely ;)

http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta-tomcat/UsingPhp
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=tomcat-devm=108099227127507w=2
http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=223

As for perl, you can do it through CGI.

Yoav Shapira



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RE: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Shapira, Yoav

Hi,

Is Tomcat considered to *be* a web server vs *having* a web server?  I
thought the HTTP connector was the way to connect HTTP clients
(browsers)
to the JSP/Servlet container.

Purely a philosophical question IMHO ;)  Technically, a piece of
software that can respond to HTTP requests per the HTTP protocol
specification is a web server.  You can take a black-, white-, or
gray-box view of it.

Yoav Shapira




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Re: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Parsons Technical Services
Since the fire is burning I'll add my load (of what you can decide).

Equate it to buying a vehicle.
Car
SUV
Truck
Van
Motorcycle
Tractor-Trailer
2wd
4wd
Awd

Each has features the other don't.
Each can serve multiple purposes.
NONE can serve ALL purposes.
Look at your needs.
Pick the best one.

Ten years ago the choices were the same but the capabilities and features
were not.

Each time you need to look at what is on the market NOW.

Then make a decision.
If nothing fits your needs then you have two choices compromise or buy two
or more that will or build your own.

I am a new comer to the world of Tomcat, but I have read of it's past and
respect it for what it is.

If you have a different opinion, welcome to the human race.

And as Yoav asked please start another thread. Not only to keep continuity
but also to improve your chances of getting an answer. I don't always read
every message if the topic is not something I either know about or am
interested in so someone with the knowledge you seek may be skipping this
thread and miss the chance to assist you.

Wow what a good rant does for a little stress relief.

Doug

- Original Message - 
From: Daniel Gibby [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Users List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use


 Also, I definitely don't want to be changing the configuration whenever
 I have a new partner that needs another cobranded version of the webapp
 (meaning I would need to give them their own hostname or subdomain...
 Can tomcat be setup to allow a VirtualHost to accept multiple domain
names?

 Daniel Gibby wrote:

  I guess part of my problem is that I don't have knowledge as to
  whether tomcat's virtual hosts can be wildcarded to accept multiple
  *.domainname.com hosts all within one app. Is that possible with
  tomcat? Is it part of the spec? I wouldn't know where to look to find
  out.
 


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Re: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Josh Rehman
Shapira, Yoav wrote:
Hi,

(perl  php support in any servlet container seems...unlikely :)
PHP, not so unlikely ;)
http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta-tomcat/UsingPhp
Fascinating - I'd love to know what the web.xml looks like and what the 
server looks like. I'd guess the php servlet is a very simple JNI bridge 
to the PHP native libraries. Maybe I'll try it out!

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=tomcat-devm=108099227127507w=2
http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=223
Didn't know about this. Also fascinating.

As for perl, you can do it through CGI.
Yoav Shapira
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Re: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Parsons Technical Services
Having something implies that you could lose that something and not change
what it is.

Thus Tomcat would *be* a web server. For without it , it would not be
fundamentally the same.

As said this is a Purely a philosophical question .

And as I said in other post, this is my opinion. Feel free to press delete.

Doug

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:47 PM
Subject: RE: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use







 Is Tomcat considered to *be* a web server vs *having* a web server?  I
 thought the HTTP connector was the way to connect HTTP clients (browsers)
 to the JSP/Servlet container.

 Peace...

 Tom




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  Please respond to RE: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use
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 Hi,

 Apache is web server, but Tomcat is not, while

 Tomcat is a web server: all that a piece of software needs to do in
 order to be a web server is implement the HTTP protocol, which tomcat
 does.

 It is not a problem with JK connector, I don't use
 JK2.

 It's not a problem for you, and not for me, but it is for many people.

 Yoav, you provide a great contribution to this list,
 thank you very much!

 No problem, glad to help.

 Yoav Shapira



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Re: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Remy Maucherat
Norris Shelton wrote:
What are you thoughts on a JBoss 4 setup?  Do you still
recommend staying away from Apache?
JBoss 4 is alpha for now. I recommend trying JBoss 3.2.4 RC 1 if you 
want something more stable.

--
x
Rémy Maucherat
Developer  Consultant
JBoss Group (Europe) SàRL
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RE: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Mladen Turk
 

 -Original Message-
 From: Josh Rehman
 
 (perl  php support in any servlet container seems...unlikely :)
 

But don't put your money on it. Perhaps we'll surprise few peoples :-)

MT.


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Re: Yoav --RE: TC 5 production use

2004-04-09 Thread Denis Haskin
Also keep in mind that Apache isn't the *only* thing you can put in 
front of Tomcat.  grin

While we do have Apache in the mix (for some legacy apps), we also run 
Squid [1] in reverse-proxy mode in front of *that* to (a) reduce 
response time on cachable content and (b) remove some of the load on Tomcat.

It did mean we had to be pretty careful about our HTTP cache-control 
headers, but it's been a nice solution.

dwh

[1] http://www.squid-cache.org/

Shapira, Yoav wrote:

This is a good example of something that hits on Apache's strong points:
perl, mod_php, rewriting.  So it's probably good for you to use Apache.
But many people on this list come here because they work with servlets
and JSPs, and maybe some static content.  In many of those cases, Apache
is not needed.  And in no case should it be added without careful
thought and consideration, as it's a significant architecture piece.
 



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