Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Annoying 'dropouts' using SBT with USB hard drive
Fizbin wrote: Sorry to get back so late. The files I'm playing are vinyl 24/96 vinyl rips, recorded to flac. So flac is the native file (well, that's the way I get the). I convert them to wav using dBpoweramp. You are aware that the internal server is a rough hack? It might be struggling to handle both the USb traffic and the flac decoding (at 24/96) at the same time. Do you hear the same difference between flac and wav at 16/44.1? To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100748 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Annoying 'dropouts' using SBT with USB hard drive
Handling 24/96 files from the TinyLMS is right on the edge of what the Touch can do. If you are using FLAC the compression number is actually important here. If you are using a high number (say 8) you can push the Touch over the edge. Try using a low compression number (0 or 1), it might work better. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100748 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Annoying 'dropouts' using SBT with USB hard drive
Sorry to get back so late. The files I'm playing are vinyl 24/96 vinyl rips, recorded to flac. So flac is the native file. I convert them to wav using dBpoweramp. There are no images attached to the files. I do a lot of comparisons of masterings/pressings so I'm not new to this. I don't go by volume when comparing. In other words, I don't perceive louder as better. I sweep the dial up and down when I listen to each file. So I hear each of them low and loud. A lot of my least favorite CD and vinyl masterings are actually the LOUDER ones. So I have learned over the years that LOUD is not necessarily better. I will do some more comparisons with some of my CD's, and report back. In this case, my CD's are converted directly to wave, so I'll use two programs to convert to flac...dBpoweramp and foobar2000. Fizbin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58734 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100748 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Annoying 'dropouts' using SBT with USB hard drive
Hmm... So you are using the internal server, and have no network traffic at all? I wonder if you have an issue where the USB traffic interferes with the flac encoding and playing (or vice versa). As there is no network traffic involved, the amount of traffic is not relevant, but the small additional processessing from the flac decoding might be enough to cause buffer underflows or missed USB interrups. To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100748 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Annoying 'dropouts' using SBT with USB hard drive
Fizbin wrote: Well, now. I did some listening tests between FLAC and WAVE and I couldn't believe how inferior sounding the FLAC was in comparison How did you convert some of your WAVs to FLAC, and what compression value did you use? Chris :) Stratmangler's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20387 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100748 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Annoying 'dropouts' using SBT with USB hard drive
Fizbin wrote: Well, now. I did some listening tests between FLAC and WAVE and I couldn't believe how inferior sounding the FLAC was in comparison. It just hit me right away, in no time at all. I figured they would either sound the same or one MIGHT sound better than the other, but it would take me some time to differentiate...Nope. Plain and simple...FLAC's (at least via TinySBS) don't sound nearly as good. They have a congested sound about them. I have no bias for WAVE or FLAC's. In fact I wanted the FLAC to 'win' so I could put twice as many files on my SD cards. To nip it in the bud, I had a friend come over and he played the FLAC or WAVE version of each track, without telling me. He played each track 4 times each, and I could pick it off every time. something must be very wrong somewhere, maybe in the file conversion. What program did you use to convert from WAV to FLAC? *Location 1:* VortexBox 4TB (2.2) LMS 7.8 Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) LMS 7.7.2 Touch Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) LMS 7.8 SqueezePlay *Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER *Controllers:* iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Spotify garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100748 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Annoying 'dropouts' using SBT with USB hard drive
Well, now. I did some listening tests between FLAC and WAVE and I couldn't believe how inferior sounding the FLAC was in comparison. It just hit me right away, in no time at all. I figured they would either sound the same or one MIGHT sound better than the other, but it would take me some time to differentiate...Nope. Plain and simple...FLAC's (at least via TinySBS) don't sound nearly as good. They have a congested sound about them. I have no bias for WAVE or FLAC's. In fact I wanted the FLAC to 'win' so I could put twice as many files on my SD cards. To nip it in the bud, I had a friend come over and he played the FLAC or WAVE version of each track, without telling me. He played each track 4 times each, and I could pick it off every time. Fizbin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58734 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100748 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Annoying 'dropouts' using SBT with USB hard drive
Fizbin wrote: Well, now. I did some listening tests between FLAC and WAVE and I couldn't believe how inferior sounding the FLAC was in comparison. It just hit me right away, in no time at all. I figured they would either sound the same or one MIGHT sound better than the other, but it would take me some time to differentiate...Nope. Plain and simple...FLAC's (at least via TinySBS) don't sound nearly as good. They have a congested sound about them. I have no bias for WAVE or FLAC's. In fact I wanted the FLAC to 'win' so I could put twice as many files on my SD cards. To nip it in the bud, I had a friend come over and he played the FLAC or WAVE version of each track, without telling me. He played each track 4 times each, and I could pick it off every time. You did his ABX or blinded and do not have any replay gain tags in the files ? Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100748 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Annoying 'dropouts' using SBT with USB hard drive
Fizbin wrote: Try WAV files. No converting = less processing.. There is no processing/transcoding when using Touch's TinyLMS, Touch isn't capable of it. toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100748 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Annoying 'dropouts' using SBT with USB hard drive
Fizbin wrote: Try WAV files. No converting = less processing. (Obviously a space-hogging format, but try it nonetheless) With network connection playing WAV files on SBT has been measured to have a higher processing load than playing Flac due to more than double the amount of data to be processed (i.e. more than double network I/Os and interrupts). I can imagine it is same situation with playing disk based WAV files but only measurements can definitely prove this as disks can have large readahead caches and have larger transfer block sizes than a network connection. Could the OP disk be in some sort of power save/motor off mode between tracks and the disk is the cause of the delay and not SBT. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100748 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Annoying 'dropouts' using SBT with USB hard drive
Thank you very much for your responses. Let me take up the various points: 1. Just for information, the scanning time for the disk is in the 10-15 minute range if I have simply added a few CDs or if the system has been powered down for another reason. If I erase the database and start afresh, it takes hours - but I do not do that very often. 2. I had not realised that there was a possibility of the SBT becoming clogged with rubbish after some time, but I'll certainly keep that in mind. 3. I have not tried .WAV files (ever), but will play around with that. I would need a 2TB drive to accommodate all my files, however, and that might bring additional problems. 4. As to the disk going to 'sleep', the thought had occurred to me, too. However, I don't think so (but I can't be 100% sure). I'll look into that. The question which remains with all the suggestions is why I get no dropouts with firmware 7.7.1 (which was the one installed on the SBT when I bought it) - whilst they happen all the time with 7.7.2 and later versions. The problems started about 6 months after I purchased the unit, when the SBT upgraded itself to 7.7.2. I tried all sorts of things then, until I realised that by re-installing 7.7.1 I could eliminate the dropouts. When the SBT decides to work, it works very well. The issue with firmware 7.7.1 is that it is not terribly stable. That said, other reports on this and related forums suggest that using the SBT with a USB hard drive is hardly ever a straightforward affair, irrespective of the firmware version. SqueezeboxAbe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=62358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100748 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Annoying 'dropouts' using SBT with USB hard drive
toby10 wrote: There is no processing/transcoding when using Touch's TinyLMS, Touch isn't capable of it. Interesting. I'll have to try FLAC then. :) I'll report back later on my findings. (Sound quality, etc) Fizbin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58734 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100748 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Annoying 'dropouts' using SBT with USB hard drive
My issue is that with every firmware version after 7.7.1 (and including the latest 7.8.0), I missed this part when I first read your post. So with 7.7.1, you have no dropouts. Interesting. I have never tried firmware beyond 7.7.1. I was thinking about trying something below 7.8 (7.8 requires me to connect to my PC to use TinySBS, so I can't use it) but perhaps I will not bother. Maybe there's some additional processing happening with the later firmwares that affects TinySBS? Fizbin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58734 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100748 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Annoying 'dropouts' using SBT with USB hard drive
Try WAV files. No converting = less processing. (Obviously a space-hogging format, but try it nonetheless) Don't use any graphics, artwork, nothing. Just a black screen that doesn't auto power down...Particularly when the track is playing. With my SD cards (even playing 24/96 files) I get no buffering or drop out issues. BUT I really have to baby TinySBS. And one of the things I DO have to do (otherwise I WILL get drop outs) is reset the unit with each daily use. For some reason the memory gets 'clogged' when it's going too long. It's kinda like when you reboot Windows, and it's much faster. To reset I sometimes unplug/plug but usually I just push the tiny reset button at the back, with a toothpick. I don't know how feasible that is with your 500GB HD (how long does it take for the server to load?) For me it's not a huge deal with a 32GB SD Card...Takes about 3 minutes to play music. Fizbin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58734 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100748 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
[SlimDevices: Touch] Annoying 'dropouts' using SBT with USB hard drive
I'm using the Squeezebox Touch SOLELY for playing FLAC music stored on a (powered) hard drive, which is attached to the device's USB input. The disk has a capacity of 500Gb and it is 95% full - there are some 1500 CDs on there (i.e. around 18500 tracks altogether). My issue is that with every firmware version after 7.7.1 (and including the latest 7.8.0), I get drop-outs at the end of tracks (and sometimes also at the beginning). I reckon this has something to do with buffering between tracks - it seems that the SBT 'hangs' for a fraction of a second whilst it considers loading the next track (or has just done so). The result is what I refer to as 'dropouts' - you might also call it a 'stutter'. Whatever term you want to use, it is very annoying! I have, therefore, stuck with the ancient 7.7.1. - and put up with its shortcomings, such as the occasional crashes and lost connections to the USB library. At least when it decides to work, it will reproduce my music properly. Any comment/advice is most welcome! PS: My comments on 7.8.0 relate to the firmware on http://update.slimdevices.com/update/firmware/7.8.0/ . The fab4 bin file (which I assume is the relevant one) is almost a year old. Is there a newer one? (Note that I do not have anything related to the SBT running on any computer, i.e. I am using only the inbuilt server function.) SqueezeboxAbe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=62358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100748 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
