Re: [Trisquel-users] Purism working on libre phone

2017-08-29 Thread chasepc

Thanks brother!


Re: [Trisquel-users] 13Aug2017 buy Trisquel laptop

2017-08-29 Thread blogstory
Magic Banana, I haven't deleted Trisquel's install from sdj3,4,and 5 yet  
because I have a question and I'm preparing for sleep - can I simply properly  
prepare the entire device dev/sdj for future drive device? The sdj1 and sdj2  
are not reliable full backup for windows and I wish to put a clone disk there  
as windows' reliable current backup. Wiping the entire disk for full 1TB use  
will be best, don;t you think?
So do I "have to" delete each partition individually or can I do the ENTIRE  
device with all partitions at once?


After I clone the win7 drive to the ext (/dev/sdj) drive then I wish to  
overwrite the win7 OS drive replacing it with Trisquel. My thoughts are  
getting foggy, not sure if I'm reasoning this properly.


More later, I'm off to sleep.


Re: [Trisquel-users] Purism working on libre phone

2017-08-29 Thread onpon4
Yeah, Purism didn't even have anything to do with it. This is a post about  
it:


https://hardenedlinux.github.io/firmware/2016/11/17/neutralize_ME_firmware_on_sandybridge_and_ivybridge.html

And this is the actual project page of me_cleaner, the tool that does it:

https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner


[Trisquel-users] Re : 13Aug2017 buy Trisquel laptop

2017-08-29 Thread lcerf
First of all, have you deleted Trisquel's install from the external disk, as  
I suggested in  
https://trisquel.info/forum/13aug2017-buy-trisquel-laptop?page=1#comment-120112  
?  You should.  GParted is pretty user-friendly: right click on the row  
corresponding to the partitions you want to affect and choose in the  
contextual menu what you want to do: "delete", "resize", etc.  The only  
(significant!) risk is to err affect the wrong partition.  Double-check that  
the partition you will affect is the one you want to affect.


Then, I suggest you to backup your important files on that external disk (or  
another one).  Indeed, having the backup right next to the original data  
(inside the same computer) is risky.  Imagine that computer is stolen or  
catch fire: you lose everything.


The complexity of your computer (so many drives and partitions) apparently  
confuses Trisquel's installer that ended up installing on the external drive.  
 That is why I suggest you to not choose an automatic partitioning (such as  
"Install Trisquel alongside Windows") but rather "Something else" (it is one  
of the option the installer proposes).  You will end up on a GParted-like  
interface where you can delete, resize, create, format, etc. partitions on  
your disks and define how Trisquel will use these partitions.


One single partition is mandatory: where / (the root of the file hierarchy)  
will be mounted.  Nevertheless, I strongly suggest two additional partitions  
(as in the default partitioning scheme): one where /home will be mounted (it  
will contain all user files; without that separate partition, they would be  
on the same partition as /, i.e., with the system) and a swap partition  
(known as "virtual memory" on Windows, i.e., an extension of the RAM).  These  
partitions can be (or not) on three different drives, if you wish.  You only  
need enough free space for each of them (after resizing the existing  
partitions, what only is possible if they are not too full).


I suggested in  
https://trisquel.info/forum/13aug2017-buy-trisquel-laptop#comment-119913 24  
GB for the partition where / will be mounted (enough for the sole system,  
unless you plan to install many space-consuming games), as much swap as you  
have RAM (so that you can hibernate Trisquel, if you wish) and as much space  
as possible for the partition where /home will be mounted (so that you can  
have many large user files such as movies, pictures, etc.).  So, before  
launching the installer, you need to choose on what drive(s) you will create  
those three partitions.  It is your call.  Having / on an SSD is good: the  
system is faster (to boot in particular).  However, your SSD is almost full.


At the creation of new partitions (in the free space you get after shrinking  
existing existing partitions), you will have to tell (a drop-down menu) the  
type of the partition.  For the swap it is "linux-swap".  For the partition  
where to mount / I suggest ext4.  For the partition where to mount /home I  
suggest xfs.  Those are the choices the default install makes too (I can  
argue why these choices are good, if you wish, but I doubt you care).


Once the three partition created, their types chosen (click their "format"  
check box they are not checked), the mount points (/ and /home, the swap is  
not "mounted"), you can proceed with the rest of the installation that you  
have already seen (defining the name of the system, your user name, your time  
zone, etc.).


Let us hope the bootloader (GRUB) will not raise any trouble.  If not, a  
reboot (do not forget to unplug the USB key with the live system when the  
computers starts booting) should bring you a menu where Trisquel is the  
default system to boot but where you can choose to boot Windows too.


Re: [Trisquel-users] Purism working on libre phone

2017-08-29 Thread chasepc
It seems to me that a lot of the people here on this forum work in the  
computer industry and have fairly advance knowledge already.  Bridging the  
gap between developers and normal every day users is a big task.
Try and do some basic searches as if you were someone without any knowledge  
of fsf.org or similar things and see how far you have to dig to find it.  As  
someone who is not a professional in the industry it took me a lot of work  
just to get where I am at with my basic free setup on a x200.  I spent many  
hours researching just to find the company that I bought it from and after I  
got my computer in the mail I turned it on once and realized I didn't know  
what I was doing and didn't have time to figure out how to migrate my whole  
life over to this system so it sat on my shelf for 6 months until I had the  
energy to tackle that task,  as someone who spent most of my life using Apple  
products it left me with a somewhat learning disability.  It's like if a kid  
only read picture books until they were an adult and then someone gave them a  
real book and they had to learn how to read for the first time as an adult.


Once I decided to migrate to my x200 it was not easy, I've spent countless  
hours setting it up and still have a lot to learn and things to figure out  
how to setup properly.  I find it all very fascinating and like learning new  
things but it's certainly not easy and not everyone is willing to make that  
kind of commitment, or have the ability to.  I was at more of a disadvantage  
coming from Apple computers and I'm sure it would be a lot easier for someone  
already familiar with Linux but my point is that there is a lot of people  
like me or worse so bringing free computing products to the masses is a big  
undertaking.  I think it will take a similar marketing approach that purism  
is doing to accomplish this, in all honesty they do a great job in a lot of  
what they do, it's a shame their product isn't legit in terms of real freedom  
though.   


Re: [Trisquel-users] alternatives to samba

2017-08-29 Thread eloi . igor
I never thought I could see somebody unhappy with samba. I guess you never  
knows. 


Re: [Trisquel-users] free PDA running JMP

2017-08-29 Thread masonhock
The last version of deblob-* to contain  
drivers/gpu/drm/nouveau/nvkm/subdev/pmu/fuc/gf110.fuc4 is deblob-4.2, so out  
of curiosity I tried including that in the directory instead and running $  
./deblob 4.2 Sure enough, the script was able find all files it was looking  
for and complete without errors.


NTC says this kernel is based on linux-4.4 and even made an announcement  
about upgrading from 4.3, so I don't understand why apparently none of the  
non-free firmware is newer than that in 4.2.


Regardless, the script apparently succeeded in deblobbing everything  
hardcoded into deblob-4.2. I guess the question is whether or not there are  
additional blobs that it was not looking for. From deblob-4.2,


# This script, suited for the kernel version named below, in kver,
# attempts to remove only non-Free Software bits, without removing
# Free Software that happens to be in the same file.

# Drivers that currently require non-Free firmware are retained, but
# firmware included in GPLed sources is replaced with /*(DEBLOBBED)*/
# if the deblob-check script, that knows how to do this, is present.

Since deblob-check was present, does that mean it should have deblobbed all  
GPLed sources whether or not they were specifically hardcoded into  
deblob-4.2? Does that also imply that any non-GPL sources were left alone  
even if they contained blobs?


[Trisquel-users] Corporate mainstream media which is not in the public interest

2017-08-29 Thread J.B. Nicholson

trisquelfo...@vikings.net wrote:
One question remains, why do some (if not most) people _still_ not 
understand in 2017 what this all is about. Why do people still strike a 
blow for companies (looking at you, Intel & co.) that treat you like crap. 
It really beats me.


This has more to do with corporate media and the kind of message exclusion 
we see in other efforts. It takes a *lot* of money, time, and 
non-journalism to keep anti-war talk at bay, for instance, despite that 
American public doesn't want more war. But you won't find this sentiment 
reflected in the US corporate mainstream media which engages in pro-war 
talk daily. I think what goes on with the messages people are taught by all 
sorts of discussions in computer discussions is another instance of this 
same corporate control. The computer press is not exempt from this control 
nor is it unique or different than other non-journalistic press.


We can't expect people to know what they're rarely taught; they're taught 
to evaluate computer-related goods and services on price, look & feel of 
promotional materials, and perhaps some technical features. Therefore ME 
isn't a proprietary backdoor, it's a sysadmin tool. Software freedom rarely 
comes up (and is actively put down in some online forums) and is sometimes 
purposefully misstated as though it were a development methodology which 
can be tossed aside if it becomes inconvenient to major proprietors.


Re: [Trisquel-users] 13Aug2017 buy Trisquel laptop

2017-08-29 Thread blogstory

Hi my GNU friends, I am facing the Trisquel GUI atm.
I stopped taking my new prescription and feel better tonight, so let's get  
started.


The mental gymnastics needed to quickly correlate the drivenames between  
windows and Trisquel is difficult, as far as I can see, there is no "sda2" -  
here is my attempt at mapping the drives for reference:

C:=sdb2 #SDD fast-boot win7 OS
D:=sda1 #Data 1TB HDD my orig workhorse drive nearly full
E:=sdi1 #dvd/cd R/W
K:=sdc2 #4TB HDD my current workhorse drive 1.2 TB free
M:=sdj1-sdj5 #1TB external drive(converted a int HDD into ext kit)backup
X:=sdd2 #250GB SSD full (quick access port/easy swap)

The above drive map should help us; installation options are sdb[C:],  
sda[D:], sdc[K:], and/or possibly sdd[X:]
I now consider a SDD OS my preferred option because of its many conveniences.  
More about that and the OS later.

The Boot problem has first priority.

GUIDING STEPS or baptism by fire:
1. Win7 OS Backup. This has been a new thorny problem for some unk reason and  
I might as well get rid of it before we move on to other actions. With no  
current backup as insurance should something go WRONG (w/ Trisquel and my  
ineptness what could go wrong?) RIGHT? Ahem - unwise procedure.
I almost started win7 to format sdj (M: drive/device) My  
full-immersion-tutelage begins today because I feel you gals and guys have my  
back :) SO let's stay in the Trisquel environment and learn how to format the  
sdj1-5 devices!
I require knowledge to have Gparted setup the sdj(ext M:) drive. We need to  
allow aprox 132GB for the win7 backup. If we leave it as it is it has 145GB.  
Then we can use a clone utility to backup the sdb(C:) drive with win7 OS to  
the (sdd)ext drive

***I do not know how Gparted operates so any instructions here are welcomed.

2. Boot repair or restore to functional mode.
Reboot computer and verify windows 7 starts normally.
In preparation to the next step, I shall review the windows backup, prior to  
moving on to step 3.


3. We shall continue the theme of FULL-IMMERSION-TUTELAGE by over-writing  
MICROSOFTS' VIRUS aka Windows 7 OS.
I'm asking for your help, please from Trisquel shell, help me step-by-step  
install Trisquel as the primary boot.


[Trisquel-users] Re : alternatives to samba

2017-08-29 Thread lcerf
About backups, if the synchronized systems are all online and you  
modify/remove by mistake a file, it will be quickly modified/removed in all  
other systems with no way to recover the file as it was, right?  If so, it is  
not a good idea to use Syncthing to backup... but backups were not Heather's  
problem anyway.  I just want to warn you about this issue if you really use  
Syncthing to backup.


I now understand your third point.  But we are talking about different  
things.  You are talking about transferring files from a remote terminal  
(notice that you can 'scp' from it if the local computer has an SSH server as  
well).  I was talking about the SSH file transfer protocol (SFTP) that allows  
to access the file hierarchy of a remote system.  Thanks to integration with  
file manager, you can get a bookmark that opens a folder on that remote  
system.  The files stay on that remote system (well, you can copy them  
locally if you want, e.g., with drag and drop).  Those files are read/written  
with the programs on the local system.  Like Samba but through SSH.


Re: [Trisquel-users] Purism working on libre phone

2017-08-29 Thread chasepc
Yeah it's definitely deceptive marketing, in the same response he says it's  
90-95% freed and then calls it a 99% solution in the same response.


Anyways, glad to hear some input because those guys are good at marketing  
even if they are full of shit.


Is this ME neutralization script available somewhere for anyone to use?   Any  
links to it?





[Trisquel-users] Re : ar9271 works on debian 9 64bit main?

2017-08-29 Thread lcerf

It is.


Re: [Trisquel-users] Purism working on libre phone

2017-08-29 Thread chasepc
Thanks for the info, good stuff here.  


Re: [Trisquel-users] Clock applet displays normal, not bold text

2017-08-29 Thread bobandrew
This is how the two clocks look like, the clock-applet is displayed to the  
left, and the clock in the indicator-applet to the right. How can I get the  
former look like the latter?


Re: [Trisquel-users] Why big corporations are against riseup.net?

2017-08-29 Thread fil . bergamo

I think you'd better ask them directly..

..but my guess is as follows:

Given that:
-riseup.net is funded by members only (not by governments or corporations);
-it is always struggling to keep up the pace and pay the bills;
-every account they offer needs a tiny but significant amount of resources;
-it has a clear enough policy of not wasting resources;
-that policy serves the purpose of being able to deliver their service to  
whom is *really* in need of it;
-if you use twitter or ebay you are pinching a massive hole in your supposed  
attempt to keep your privacy;


given all of the above:
I think that using riseup.net together with a mass-surveillance service is  
paradoxical.
It seems pretty reasonable to me that they reject any email coming from  
mass-surveillance services that are actively working in the opposite  
direction of what riseup.net is trying to support, as keeping and delivering  
them would be a waste of precious resources.
After all, you don't *really* need a riseup.net account if you are using  
those services.


But that is only my guess, nothing more..

Cheers ;-)


Re: [Trisquel-users] customizing trisquel.

2017-08-29 Thread jbar

Thanks, SuperTramp83 and Heather, 'heads' looks interesting.


[Trisquel-users] libre ppc notebook funding

2017-08-29 Thread toni . schultheis

https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/en/

I was wondering if someone knows about it...
They want to mak an open hardware ppc notebook,
and i think its the most interesting project there is.
If they succed an new laptop without backdoors would be available.


Re: [Trisquel-users] alternatives to samba

2017-08-29 Thread i_write_words
For the benefit of future lurkers, it was only necessary to give the server a  
static address. My clients seem to be able to connect just fine. This seems  
to replace all the functionality of Samba.


Since I have the same username and passwords on all machines, I log into my  
home directory on the server and then am able to go into the whole filesystem  
and access all mounted USB drives in media.


Samba then becomes completely unnecessary.

https://thehackernews.com/2017/05/samba-rce-exploit.html

This was an "ask a question, listen to the answers, RTFM/STFW, and less than  
24 hours later it's done" project for my illustrious self, who has never  
taken a single professional college level IT class or been employed in IT at  
any higher level than "John says Mary says Susan says George knows a computer  
dude name Heather who doesn't cost much and might work for a bag or two of  
zucchini"




Re: [Trisquel-users] Clock applet displays normal, not bold text

2017-08-29 Thread bobandrew
NB: this is about the clock-applet (which can also display weather info), not  
the clock displayed by default on the bottom right corner indicator-applet.


Re: [Trisquel-users] alternatives to samba

2017-08-29 Thread happy_gnu
1.- You can select what files or directories to sync with wich device. But  
fair enough I haven't use samba. As I thought it was meant to share with  
windows and, fortunately we get cidmof windows in my house :)


2.- That depends on your configuration, you can backup everything.

3.- If you connect to a server with SSH and you want some file in your PC you  
need to exit the SSH session and use scp command. Or open a different  
terminal. You can't edit and save the file at once. (At least not that I  
know, it might be possible and I just ignore how)



4.- Yes. Overall I wanted to give a simple easy to configure solution. I felt  
like SSH was too much trouble for something simple. Not that SSH is bad, just  
that Syncthing was maybe more according to Heather use case.





Re: [Trisquel-users] free PDA running JMP

2017-08-29 Thread masonhock
You're right. I should have been running deblob-main. After compressing the  
kernel  to "linux-4.4.tar.bz2", changing line 52 of deblob-4.4 to read  
"kver=4.4 extra=13", and running $ ./deblob-main 4.4 13 I get Uncompressing  
linux-4.4.tar.bz2 into linux-4.4.tar

Extracting linux-4.4.tar into linux-4.4
Copying linux-4.4 to linux-libre-4.4-gnu13
Deblobbing within linux-libre-4.4-gnu13, saving output to  
linux-libre-4.4-gnu13.log
ERROR: drivers/gpu/drm/nouveau/nvkm/subdev/pmu/fuc/gf119.fuc4 does not exist,  
something is wrong

Use --force to ignore
deblob-4.4 failed, aborting
cleaning up... Indeed, drivers/gpu/drm/nouveau/nvkm/subdev/pmu/fuc does not  
contain this file. It appears to contain gf100.fuc4 instead. Maybe this is a  
difference between the vanilla 4.4.13 kernel and NTC's, in which case I guess  
I could alter deblob-4.4 manually to address errors like this.



 I tried running $ ./deblob-main --force 4.4 13 to see what it would do  
ignoring missing files. I got a lot of messages resembling ATH6KL - Atheros  
ath6kl support
drivers/net/wireless/ath/ath6kl/init.c: disabled non-Free firmware-loading  
machinery

drivers/net/wireless/ath/ath6kl/init.c: removed blobs
drivers/net/wireless/ath/ath6kl/core.h: removed blobs which is encouraging,  
but eventually got ATH10K NL80211_TESTMODE - nl80211 testmode command
drivers/net/wireless/ath/ath10k/testmode.c: disabled non-Free  
firmware-loading machinery
ERROR: drivers/net/wireless/ath/ath10k/testmode.c did not change, something  
is wrong

deblob-4.4 failed, aborting
cleaning up... I'm not sure what to make of this error or how to fix it, but  
the script is partially working so that's progress.


[Trisquel-users] Antwort: Purism working on libre phone

2017-08-29 Thread christoph . vanecek

Hello,

#Vikings: I 100% agree with your statement, especially the two last  
paragraphs and it's fantastic that little companies like yours and also the  
great community from Tehnoetic in Bucharest are delivering freedom respecting  
hardware to average Joe users, like me.


As in many posts in this forum said, it's a very long run to convince a  
bigger amount of "normal" users, coming out of the zone of nerds. Also most  
people aren't able to wait for a development of e.g. a new stable os like  
Flidas...


Greetings from the south of Germany!







 


Re: [Trisquel-users] alternatives to samba

2017-08-29 Thread i_write_words
Now if I can just figure out how to share my external drives as well as my  
home folder.


Re: [Trisquel-users] alternatives to samba

2017-08-29 Thread i_write_words

YES Thank you! I'm into my server!!!

I am still using passwords so not done yet, but everything looks great and  
exactly the way it did on Samba, which I don't need any more.


:)

doing a happy dance


Re: [Trisquel-users] ar9271 works on debian 9 64bit main?

2017-08-29 Thread svhaab

Thanks.
Is this the package https://packages.debian.org/sid/firmware-ath9k-htc?


Re: [Trisquel-users] No background image when "Show icons on desktop" is unticked - Trisquel 7

2017-08-29 Thread bobandrew

Thanks for the hint, I'll try that.


[Trisquel-users] Re : alternatives to samba

2017-08-29 Thread lcerf
The allocation of IP addresses is DHCP's work.  Their static allocation based  
on the MAC addresses should therefore be in "Network/DHCP and DNS".  As I  
wrote, using GNU/Linux (even a live system: we are talking about an  
hardware-defined number), you can read the MAC address (or addresses if the  
computer has several network interfaces, e.g., an Ethernet card and a Wifi  
card) right after "link/ether " in the output of:

$ ip addr
You have to input the MAC address of every (used) network interface and  
choose the IP address it will always receive (once the router configuration  
over, and a reboot of both the router and the computers).  With IPv4, the IP  
addresses will probably have to be 192.168.x.y, where x and y are two two  
numbers between 0 and 255.  Maybe you want 192.168.0.1, 192.168.0.2, etc.


Re: [Trisquel-users] Trisquel 8 post install. ??? and new to free-software ???

2017-08-29 Thread tegskywalker

"Trisquel 8 is still alpha"

When this OS is based off of code from April 2016 and is still an early  work  
in progress in August 2017, it is an abandoned project at this point.


Re: [Trisquel-users] Desktop problem - no programs

2017-08-29 Thread 43453

aloniv: "It should perhaps default to mirroring both screens instead."

It could be that the mirroring is working, but not correctly because the  
integrated display is a hd screen and the external not. So it's not zoomed in  
the right way (if I open a window its in the lower right corner, not center).  
There seems to be no correct seperate recognition of the 2nd screen.


What exact terminal-command for which program do I need to simply shut the  
integrated screen off? (I wanna avoid try and error here..)





Re: [Trisquel-users] free PDA running JMP

2017-08-29 Thread gpast_panama
>It would be great if the indent width of comment replies were halved so that  
it would take twice as long for this to happen


Seconded.

>I'm not sure exactly what the output should look like since I can't find  
sample usage anywhere, but I would have expected to get a list of source code  
files that contain blobs.


I'm not sure, but I think that's what the script is trying to give based on  
any license declarations it finds in the files. The WHENCE file it lists, for  
example, doesn't contain a full license declaration and so is marked as  
non-free; the HEX, ihex, and H16 files you mention seem to (in most cases)  
contain GPLv2 declarations at the bottom. I don't know if these are actually  
legal, but they're there.


It appears that this script won't be much help. Hopefully the other scripts  
in the set are slightly more effective.


>Looking through the files manually it appears that almost everything in  
/firmware/ has to go. It's all .HEX, .ihex, or .H16 files with no actual  
source code.


It appears so. Have you tried the deblob-main script? Apparently that should  
deblob tarballs, although the performance of deblob-check suggests manual  
cleansing might be needed.


[Trisquel-users] Antwort: Purism working on libre phone

2017-08-29 Thread trisquelforum
I'm posting this as someone who went actually through the FSF's RYF process  
to the end.



> There is no such thing as a middle-ground with the FSF.

The FSF is _the_ libre software lighthouse. As such, it has set its own set  
of well-established principles that are almost written in stone. Not everyone  
has to agree to those principles, but that's what principles are for; not to  
get crushed by nonentities at the first sign of trouble. Those principles  
don't come out of nowhere, they grew historically and they will continue to  
grow.
The FSF is not beyond reason even though they have principles. When we were  
communicating with them, they were able to find a middle-ground with things  
that came up and they offered practical solutions.


Imagine the FSF would find a "middle-ground" with proprietary blobs,  
potential spyware and whatnot. I don't think that would be a middle-ground,  
that would be plain ignorant the very least, like the larger part of the  
industry is. The RYF certification would be absolutely worthless!




> The FSF will not endorse any post-2008 Intel-based (or AMD-based, until  
further notice) computer, until every last kilobyte of the Intel Management  
Engine (or AMD PSP) has been reverse engineered or zeroed out (currently  
Purism can zero out somewhere between 90 and 95% of the IME).


The ASUS KGPE-D16 that can run with libre boot firmware has been released in  
2010. It's still available brand-new on the free market and it is still  
powerful. So powerful we run all our servers with it.


More importantly, there is a new (as in 2017) mainboard coming up from Raptor  
Engineering, the TALOSII (see other threads in this forum). That's where the  
progress comes from these days: from small companies with moral principles  
and ingenuity.
They don't have to "zero out 95% IME". If you go with the non-SAS version,  
there are no proprietary blobs, 100%. AFAIK this board is eligible for RYF.



> In terms of software: it’s an excruciatingly slow process (months long,  
and moving targets), even if we already go above and beyond any requirements  
for GNU Linux distro endorsement.


I've had a different experience and it was a positive one. We actually  
enjoyed the contact with the FSF and their professionalism _even though_ they  
were understaffed at that time. Furthermore RYF (=Respects Your Freedom  
hardware product certification) is not meant for GNU/Linux, but for the  
underlying hardware.



> To be clear for anyone reading my previous reply: I’m not blaming the FSF  
for sticking to their principles (it’s their job), I’m just stating the  
current state of things, factually speaking. i.e. 99% free isn’t 100% and  
therefore there is “no middleground” when it comes to certification—but  
then nobody else is even remotely close to 100% with modern mainstream  
hardware, either.


It would be great to have more modern hardware. We don't need modern hardware  
that disenfranchises you though. Until we have something better™, we'll  
stick to "old" hardware that respects our privacy and does what we expect it  
to do.


One question remains, why do some (if not most) people _still_ not understand  
in 2017 what this all is about. Why do people still strike a blow for  
companies (looking at you, Intel & co.) that treat you like crap. It really  
beats me.