Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Hello, For days I've hoped that this thread would end up getting better and that a lesson could be learned from all that chaos, but I no longer think it's possible to get anything good from letting it grow even longer. I've moved it from the Trisquel-users forum and I've locked it, but I have decided to keep it as it is so it stays as a testament of how bad things can get if we don't try to be better. Please take this thread and its poor results for all involved into account when writing again at the forum. Not only because it doesn't help the whole community to read, participate or overall waste time in inconclusive discussions, but also because it's unlikely that anybody will come out from them looking as a better person and/or professional. Let's be better than this. Also, please, think about opening new forum threads when you want to talk/ask about something only tangentially related to the original subject. Otherwise, potentially useful information can easily get hidden.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
@vltr Thank you. I am not ethical, but want to be. It is in fact hard to be ethical, and this should not be so. It should be the easiest thing. I am weak and often compromise or participate in things when I know it causes harm, be it the environment, sweatshop labor or other things. I ask all of us to do our best. People give me gifts of computers powered by Intel and I accepted with humility and gratitude. But when I have a choice, I prefer to try to minimize harm. If a company I support does well, I try to ask they do the right thing. If I was an Apple customer, I would ask they not exploit manufacturning and use a tiny, tiny fraction of their billions to try right some wrongs. I am often an AMD client and they are quite sick of me as I keep asking them to respect Libre software. The best I can do is to try to raise awareness. People on this forum are better and more aware than average, even the ones I am at odds with. A lively thread this is! Buona Fortuna, we try to minimize harm and do our best, eh?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Ey little robot, I have been ready some of your post and just to tell you that I really enjoy reading them ; ) You look like being a little good robot! I like good people... well in your case good robots. Sorry ;D
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
That wasn't a very Lain-like comment. Lain would be a bit more constructive in the Wired. Besides, these laptops take time, resources, and effort to recondition and certify. Laptops are underpriced in general, mostly off the backs of exploited labour and resources. http://www.congoweek.org/en/coltan-facts.html https://www.ukessays.com/essays/history/how-has-coltan-exploitation-affected-the-people-of-eastern-congo-history-essay.php
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Stop shitting up the forums with petty bickering between fsf certified companies selling overpriced laptops. Disgusting.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Hi calher, Nice to meet an apologist for Israel. According to UN Resolution 242, you are wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242 According to Amnesty International, you are wrong: https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/ According to professor Noam Chomsky, you are wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fateful_Triangle According to Professor Richard Stallman, you are wrong: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/free-software-campaigner-richard-stallman-cancels-israel-lectures-due-to-palestinian-pressure-1.364722 The land is in fact, Occupied Palestine. Intel, manufactures on occupied land, as mandated by UN Resolutions 242, this makes them blood cpu's and non ethical. The people in the occupied territories do not have freedoms and are in fact second class citizens. And no, Israelis are not just living there. They commit atrocities on an ongoing basis against the indigenous populace. If some Israelis are nice enough to write free software manuals or even free software, they still need to be called to account for ongoing war crimes and crimes against humanity. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre ) Preferably in the Hague.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Vikings, do you offer VPSes yet? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I didn't mean a literal waste of space, I meant that figuratively.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
If you have an issue with Libreboot (and it sounds like you do) you should either use the Libreboot site for support, or if you bought the computer from a vendor seek support from that vendor.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Hello there, > It's irrelevant now though It may be not relevant to you, your initial comment about VAT was factually wrong though and I cared to correct it. Suddenly it's "irrelevant", which seems counterintuitive. > Thomas, btw, you're part of that peace deal I offered Tiberiu. Huh? I'm unsure why we were CC'd in your email, or mentioned by you. I'm not part of anything discussed here. Neither is the company I represent (which I would like to stress) and I'd like to ask you nicely *again* to leave Vikings and me out of your business. What's more, I don't think it's appropriate to have the discussion that is held here in the first place, or the annoying self-adulation by some... Clearly both isn't helping any Trisquel user. If anything, it's poisonous and it'll put people off this forum. This will be my only statement in that matter and as a Vikings employee. On a personal note and as a reader of this forum: I'm tired of these Technoethic/Minifree nonsense that surfaces from time to time. You guys can be annoying as hell and I wish you weren't. See you all at the Vikings booth at FOSDEM in 1 1/2 months. K building, right next to the FSFE booth. I'm the tall, bearded man.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Eh, it's not a waste of space. No more than 1 MiB, surely.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I just saw this message at 13:02 Eastern Standard Time. OK, I won't send any more messages of that nature. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Running Trisquel on a random machine is not hard. My first Trisquel laptop was a random laptop my mom got from Walmart, and it not only worked with Trisquel, but even the Wi-Fi card inside the laptop was working just fine. Someone else I used to know got two random computers and put Trisquel on them. He said that both the Wi-Fi and the touch screen worked.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I fixed it already a while ago, but thanks for the offer. I'll see if it comes with Dvorak on my next order. I'll order by encrypted email. (Not any time soon, but whenever I need an additional computer or this one is too much of a pain to repair.) Wait. How do I send encrypted mail if my computer is broken and my GPG key is on the same computer that will be broken? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
On Thu, 2017-12-14 at 23:23 +0100, gert.otten.1...@gmail.com wrote: > I was joking about Spotify. And yes I'm new to the forums, but everyone has > got to start somewhere, right? I am using Windows 10 at the moment, only > because of the fact that Microsoft shoves it down my throat. Yeah, I get that. It's definitely a process. Out of curiosity, have you already installed free programs on top of Windows 10 to do all the things you need to do? You could get used to your new programs in the mean time, until you can switch operating systems. This would make the operating system less of an impact on your workflow. > Once the Nouveau > driver is decent enough to work with my GTX 1050, I'll make the switch to > Trisquel (or Parabola). What do you mean by "decent enough"? Will X11 not even show up on the screen, or are you just trying to do luxurious stuff like playing games? Sometimes it takes sacrifice to stop people from having unjust power over you. > You just tell me which company sells the best system and I'll buy one, okay? Both are perfectly fine. Go ahead and get one. Choose a seller at random if you can't decide. I personally got mine from Minifree. It's my only computing device, and it works very well like any other laptop.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
On Fri, 2017-12-15 at 14:26 +0100, v...@protonmail.com wrote: > I understand that you just meant what I said, but that you were trying just > to simmer down that cat ; ) As I'm sure the person from ikhider.com will agree, we probably shouldn't simmer down a cat, because that would be non-vegan. (I'm sure the person from ikhider.com is vegan, since they're so ethical and perfect.)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I believe that it's time to blow the whistle that again the voting system of the forum is being abused to hide posts and promote only one's view that has been repeated over and over again in a thread. Last time this censorship has prompted me and other colleagues to react and vote too in the thread about the T400s. I've made the statements that needed to be made in response to the misinformation about Technoethical communicated on the Trisquel forum by someone that, contrary to all expectations, might still have some credibility left. Having done that, I believe it would be disrespectful to the Trisquel community and a waste of time for everyone to read and answer to the many recent puerile comments. This looks like a good way to get this thread back on track: fbit: > Sorry to change the subject but, does anyone know how to turn off thinkpad keyboard beeps on Libreboot? Thanks! https://trisquel.info/en/forum/libreboot-x200-returns-minifree?page=3#comment-124593 Tiberiu
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Boycott the British. They're the ones who drew those stupid borders. Jews bought land in Palestine, fair and square, and their neighbors still used violence and boycotts against them just for living there. Forget those people. If people still want to live there, great. Stay there, but under the Israeli government. There are Israelis who are Palestinian, and their gay sons will be safer growing up in Israel.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Sorry to change the subject but, does anyone know how to turn off thinkpad keyboard beeps on Libreboot? Thanks!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Ahhh, interesting. : - )
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Flame war, smear campaign...either way my vote is to not allow self promotion at all and tightly moderate topics before that become a 4 page long waste of space. This is especially true when the topic of the thread has little to do with using or building Trisquel.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
That makes one of us, I think this entire exchange undermines libreboot as a project and makes me not trust either vendor. You couldn't pay me to use their products at this point. This of course was also completely predictable because the exact same flame war has already happened two previous times on this forum. If you had read those previous exchanges perhaps you would understand why I am so fed up with this off topic b/s.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
It is a fact that getting truly Libre and ethical hardware to run software like Trisquel is not that easy. Granted "LibreLeah" may need to hire a PR firm, we still learned a lot from this exchange. Some important points were raised. Also, keep in mind that entities like TechnoEthical give consistent funding to Trisquel through sales, which help all of us. Thank you TechnoEthical. Let's go raving soemtime. Glowstix on me.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
It used to be a self promotion thread. Now, I think, it fits the definition of a smear campaign where the OP has been reduced to defend herself against flaming. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smear_campaign A smear campaign is an intentional, premeditated effort to undermine an individual's or group's reputation, credibility, and character. A smear is a simple attempt to malign a group or an individual with the aim of undermining their credibility. Smears often consist of ad hominem attacks in the form of unverifiable rumors and distortions, half-truths, or even outright lies. The target of the smear typically must focus on correcting the false information rather than on the original issue.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
This thread is a self promotion flame war, it in no way advances the cause of Trisquel. In fact it hurts it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Right, I forgot, Trisquel and laptops running Trisquel, or buying laptops that run Trisquel is not Libretech. Got it. Kthanxbye.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
If someone advertises their products as 'ethical' or 'free', it sort of is on topic. Sort of like buying 'fair trade' products from the Warsaw Ghetto. ; - )
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Right now we are in a thread that goes for pages without even mentioning the topic of this forum: Trisquel. This is not a "libretech" forum, it is the Trisquel users forum. It is a place where people come to get help using and building Trisquel.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Being nice should be just for the sake of feeling well with oneself as well as for the sake of willing truly to get along well with others. I understand that you just meant what I said, but that you were trying just to simmer down that cat ; )
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
As far as I am concerned, the best company I have experienced buying Libre sofware is Technoethical, and I have already by from 3 of those companies. Welcome to the forum. I was also registered as a new user weeks ago, and you are right we also have a right to speak and to exist here. Good time in the forum! ; )
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
>This has to stop What has to stop? Could you explain it? Is the issue about people just talking about true facts? Does freedom of expression about true facts hurt you? Think about it? I understand if you feel bad reading this thread, but the reason you are feeling bad is not because I began to speak freely about true things. I think what clearly hurts here everybody is that environment that is created when people began to bull others and try to silence them when they just try to speak. I think that is what it should be stopped: people just bulling others with bad manners, when they speak freely about their experience or when they began to speak with data about facts. That is in my opinion what needs to be stopped. As well as the dictatorship of people trying to silence by others when these latter are speaking legitimately about something that happened and that is completely real. >Leah is trying to make peace with you... despite everything that is happening... >Please make peace The thing is that I do not think he needs to make peace with anyone, because as far as I see he is not in war with anyone here. He should just try to get along well with everybody as we should do...But that is nothing new, because in my opinion that is what he has been trying to do since he is here. On the other side, I completely understand that he has not answered yet, because maybe he is working for real trying to build a company and trying to have his customers satisfied. When we have placed our orders with him we just got amazed as how quickly he answered every query...and now we understand that one of the reasons is evidently the fact that he steak to the important things and do not waste his time just trying to defend its company in a forum. If I am not mistaken, that is the policy of what he wants to build true products of quality and premier customer service and not just And also I understand that he might feel enough hurt already because of many of you, just not to continue forever answering a no sense. The patience of people has certain limits. If you read well all the previous threads, as I have been reading for very long, Tiberiu is always trying to get along well with all others. Maybe in some of the things he said in the past could have been more correct, but honestly it is normal that from time to time you had an occasion when you are less correct when you have in front of you people who is able just to deny evidences to It is just me or it seems that there is a kind of dictatorship in this forum when something is in favour of Technoethical? Surely I am talking about the moderators...On the contrary they look to be great. I am talking about a possible case of fanaticism among some of its members who seems to feel personally irritated just because others speak about certain facts or just because others are doing well on businesses. Please, we live in a civilized world who is trying to cope currently with a large enough number of fanatic people. Steak to reason and good manners and do not contribute to degenerate it more.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
"Kafkaesque" comes to mind. http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/29/nyregion/the-essence-of-kafkaesque.html "What's Kafkaesque," [...] "is when you enter a surreal world in which all your control patterns, all your plans, the whole way in which you have configured your own behavior, begins to fall to pieces, when you find yourself against a force that does not lend itself to the way you perceive the world. "You don't give up, you don't lie down and die. What you do is struggle against this with all of your equipment, with whatever you have. But of course you don't stand a chance. That's Kafkaesque."
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
This has to stop, you are making her and yourself look bad. We should be working together to make free software more available, not flaming each other... and frankly, Leah is trying to make peace with you... despite everything that is happening... Please make peace for the sake of the free software community. that is my first and last request from you and then just stop flaming people in general. Whether it is fact or fiction this does nothing for you or anyone else! Please... Tiberiu
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Calher, I know you mean well, but I wish for everything to de-escalate, or otherwise not re-escelate. I don't think vltr meant anything particularly nasty by it. They were simply referring to my gender. Let's not turn this into another war, please :) The war is over. ~Leah
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Godwins law aside, let's not go down that road. Besides, it's off-topic to the thread.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Calher, I know you mean well, but please let's not re-escelate things. This is not a war worth having. The fighting has stopped, and that's all that matters.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
On Tue, 2017-12-12 at 13:29 +0100, i...@minifree.org wrote: > Minifree is also extremely generous in the cases where there are problems. As a customer, I can say that this is true. -- Caleb Herbert OpenPGP public key: http://bluehome.net/csh/pubkey
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
On Wed, 2017-12-13 at 09:18 +0100, i...@minifree.org wrote: > Indeed. As previously stated, Minifree offers a 2 year warranty on all > orders. The warranty is more than great. -- Caleb Herbert OpenPGP public key: http://bluehome.net/csh/pubkey
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
On Wed, 2017-12-13 at 22:02 +0100, enduz...@riseup.net wrote: > And it's not > Leah whose doing the bullying. It's a man's world, after all. Tiberiu is doing the bullying, but this is not gender-related. Please avoid saying that people always do things to a victim because of their identity. Someone stole my quarter the other day when I dropped it on the floor. They must be one of those people who first spend all their time figuring out who's gay and who's not before they pick up someone's lost coins. A lot of those people exist, you know. They're called fag snags. If you think anything I've said here is disrespectful to women, I dare you to speak to all the women who've raised me. -- Caleb Herbert OpenPGP public key: http://bluehome.net/csh/pubkey
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Haha, I want to frame this. It's hilarious.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
On Thu, 2017-12-14 at 18:47 +0100, cont...@ikhider.com wrote: > I am also a > ThinkPenguin client and really like their wifi dongles. When I started using > Trisquel for laptops, they really saved me. It's too bad that most Wi-Fi hotspots require running proprietary software to access. You know, those annoying web portals that don't work without JavaScript? I'm working on taking my workflow offline. The Internet cannot be trusted. I'm offline right now, and it's glorious. -- Caleb Herbert OpenPGP public key: http://bluehome.net/csh/pubkey
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Richard Stallman says he just gets extended battery packs. It seems to work for his long travels. I use my boyfriend's adaptor and plug my laptop into the cigarette lighter in the car. This is how I'm responding to email and writing this at the moment. (BTW, email > forums. Offline > online.) :P
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
OK. For once, I'm going to make an SJW rant rather than protest one. On Thu, 2017-12-14 at 03:03 +0100, v...@protonmail.com wrote: > I think it is better > just to create a whole thread for people for people being able to speaks > openly about their experiences with Minifree without them being called things > > by this lady. Normally I don't buy into "they did this because they're $IDENTITY", but this particular phrase looks oddly similar to something I heard when some of my family members get mad at a black person on the highway: "that ** cut me off!" It's OK to be mad at somebody, but it's NOT okay to bring their identity into it. Being black has nothing to do with cutting people off on the highway. It should not be mentioned when you insult the jerk who cut you off.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I wonder if all this thread is just a game meant to distract and delay Minifree. :(
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Hi calher, I apologize for this oversight. If this issue still affects you, here's how to rectify it: * dump the ROM using flashrom * extract grub.cfg using cbfstool * change "keymap ukqwerty" in grub.cfg to "keymap ukdvorak" (I recall that I shipped you UK Dvorak) * reinsert the grub.cfg using cbfstool, this time with ukdvorak specified in grub.cfg * flash the modified ROM This guide shows how to modify grub.cfg in the Libreboot ROM that is flashed: https://libreboot.org/docs/gnulinux/grub_cbfs.html If you want me to provide support for this, I'm happy to. My IRC handle on freenode is _4of7 Ping me any time you like (NOTE: During December, I'm not looking at IRC much, due to heavy workload, but I take time off during the weekends). ~Leah
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I was joking about Spotify. And yes I'm new to the forums, but everyone has got to start somewhere, right? I am using Windows 10 at the moment, only because of the fact that Microsoft shoves it down my throat. Once the Nouveau driver is decent enough to work with my GTX 1050, I'll make the switch to Trisquel (or Parabola). I still have plans on getting a fully free system. You just tell me which company sells the best system and I'll buy one, okay?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
The fifth rule is, one flash chip at a time
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
The best revenge is to be nice, so that everyone wins.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
@calher To help you out a little, because it does not seem to getting through, that fellow's image you use for an avantar says to pick the ethical choice over the convenient choice. While certainly convenience may be easy in the short term, in the long term it does more damage. If that fellow is not convincing enough for you, then maybe this fellow will help too: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/08/stephen-hawking-israel-academic-boycott Some reading to educate yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_%28comics%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pity_the_Nation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_War_for_civilisation
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Oh wait! I get it! The First Rule of Free Soft and Free Hardware. YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT FREE SOFT AND FREE HARDWARE!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
How is offering Libretech running Libresoft off topic?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
They threatened me also legally, multiple times. They're threatening a lot...
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
On Thu, 2017-12-14 at 03:32 +0100, v...@protonmail.com wrote: > When I read things like this from Leah, I just get amazed... Honestly I have > no words. Do you think you are Angela Channing in a Falcon Crest episode? Can you provide clips/episodes of the reference you are making? -- Caleb Herbert OpenPGP public key: http://bluehome.net/csh/pubkey
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
On Wed, 2017-12-13 at 11:46 +0100, i...@minifree.org wrote: > This is why I try to get people to review > elsewhere. Review of Minifree: The laptop came in good condition, and replacement parts have always been provided with technical support on installation. Sometimes, I'd get a bigger hard drive than ordered, which was a bonus. I could never get my firmware of choice flashed, though. I had to type in QWERTY in GRUB, which confused me. I thought I specified Dvorak UK. -- Caleb Herbert OpenPGP public key: http://bluehome.net/csh/pubkey
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Ya, that isn't a solution. Never mind that this shouldn't be an problem in the first place. You wouldn't go to a car dealer to buy soap, it makes equally no sense to entertain many of the very off topic threads here in this forum.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
The Third Reich also made great strides in cancer research. IBM also worked with the Third Reich to help with computer development and data processing. I am sure someone like you said the exact same thing when all that went down. : - ) Or is it that some humans are more equal than others in your world?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I understand and I know your intentions are all good. They are not interested in "peace", not with you. They want make you look bad. Stop giving them ammo by replying to trollish posts that are aimed at tilting your healthy mental state of mind. You must keep up the good work, only reply to genuine posts and carry on.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
On Wed, 2017-12-13 at 10:37 +0100, i...@technoethical.com wrote: > It's also probably why you don't have reviews on your website, > nor accept payment by card. PayPal could confirm this, but not without a > court order. It is not good to have PayPal on a web store. It is a proprietary program, and providing it to users would be distribution and endorsement of proprietary software. -- Caleb Herbert OpenPGP public key: http://bluehome.net/csh/pubkey
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
The purpose of my peace offer is to prevent such incidences as in this thread in the future.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Free software requires free manuals. There are no ifs, ands or buts about it. If you think the software that prepares GNU manuals for publication is too inhumane, then I encourage you to write a more humane replacement.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Leah, I hope you do realize that you cannot bargain with them. Their goal is to remove you. It has all and everything to do with this: ...being involved in this important movement means having to deal with a leader that has a record of instability. But it doesn't have to continue to be this way. Leaders have power until we stop granting it to them. https://trisquel.info/en/forum/libreboot-x200-returns-minifree?page=2#comment-124499 That's why they are instigating people to sign up for Trisquel to air a complaint so that they can challenge you with "evidence". It's a thinly veiled ploy to destabilize you so you'll crack up and the rest will be easy.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
bandicooty98 I put an end to it all. See end of thread. I offered a deal with the other companies so that we don't be hostile towards each other, and instead compete in a friendly manner more or less, instead of attacking each other.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I am sure these vendors will be drowned out once Trisquel 8 comes out.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Says a brand new member of some three hours. Good going. Why bother registering here if all you have to say is endorse Spotify?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Okay... No FSF-Approved system for me. I thought the free software community was one of the few places on this damn planet that hadn't gone bad yet. I'll just go with the flow: I've bought a shiny new Windows 10 laptop. I seriously had plans on buying a libre system... But this kind of ruined it. But as the whole world is getting worse and worse... Like I said, I'll just go with the flow :) P.S.: Spotify works great!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I am not saying that many of these off topic threads lack value, I am simply saying this isn't the right place to have them. Specifically the community around Libreboot (including vendors) should have their own forum at this point, their users/customers are not getting the support they need and it is undermining the Trisquel forum's usefulness to boot. This community has permitted general freedom related posts for some time, but i have noticed in the last few months that we have tipped over the point where those topics have just completely sacked the forum and represent the majority of the posts. That is not helpful to Trisquel users looking for support with Trisquel.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
@findessential Some good things came out of this, though. I learned a bit more about technoethical and minifree's offerings. Minifree may now consider other forms of laptops rather than just Intel CPU's. Both Minifree and Technoethical are vying to work harder than the other for the customer and free software. This is effing great! The customers are winning here. It is perhaps too bad that they are overseas from North America. I am also a ThinkPenguin client and really like their wifi dongles. When I started using Trisquel for laptops, they really saved me. Oh hey, this also looks really cool and promising. http://openlunchbox.com/
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Minifree is VAT registered and I understand the mechanics. Yes, but import tax in many countries is lower than VAT in the typical EU country. From what I've seen, countries typically charge something like 10%, or less, sometimes slightly higher. VAT is relatively high in the EU.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Leah, everybody who follows the forum knows exactly what kind of people technoethical are, so you can completely relax. We saw what steps they are willing to take, and it's frightening, to say the least. It's amusing for me to watch this thread with those "mysterious" customers and forum members who suddenly speak up in favor of technoethical, but normally never take part in any conversation. Really, you can just ignore it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I have seen such sub-forums and it could be a good revenue stream for Trisquel eventually, I'd be open to that. Currently though this place is a free for all and it seriously undermines the forums usefulness to actual Trisquel users. We need to establish norms before entertaining some formal vendor section.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
On many other forums, businesses can only advocate their presence and products under dedicated subforums. This usually involves paying or sponsoring the site where the said advertizing takes place. On these subforums, only the business owners have the right to post messages. Airing dealer or vendor grievances should be discouraged or outright prohibited because their usefulness or trustworthness can be argued and they tend to escalate into he said-she said arguments that can damage the community if permitted to go on. Some people confuse vendor grievances for "reviews". A review cannot be criticism-only, since there must be an upside to everything. Even the darkest cloud can have a silver lining. Reviews should be much more thorough and adhere to principles of decent fairness. We should always assume good faith even if something has gone against our expectations. We should give vendors a chance to rectify and amend their shortcomings.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I really hope Tiberiu accepts it. Even if he doesn't, I'm sure as heck going to stay out of his way from now on. All this fighting has been completely pointless. It alienates our customer base, which then hurts both of our companies. Not to mention, we were both being completely unprofessional. I think cooperation will serve both of us well. But let's see what Technoethical says in response to it. I have no ulterior motive behind it, other than wanting to live my life in peace and focus on my work, and, you know, not be stressed all the time fighting people :S
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Thank you, Leah. I accept your apology, and honestly I am very happy to read this latter post from you :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Hi vltr, My offer to Tiberiu and Technoethical is a genuine one. I'm not going to argue with you on anything that you've said in your post, for I am waiting on Tiberiu's response to my offer. And yes, I apologize for my previous hostilities towards you. As stated in another reply to you in this thread, I'm willing to do what is necessary to make amends (this has always been my intention). If you wish to receive a refund for you order, please send me your order info via email, and your wiring instructions. Btw, I'm curious to hear what you think my problem is. Feel free to say it in a reply, or in a PM, whatever you wish. This is strictly morbid curiosity, and you do not have to comply with this request. ~Leah
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I do actually try to provide the best possible service. But yes, I apologize fully for me behaviour towards you in this thread. Once again, I take full responsibility. If you wish your order be refunded, then I'm happy to provide one (as I always have been). Please send me your wiring instructions and original order information. Please also see my offer of peace to Tiberiu: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/libreboot-x200-returns-minifree?page=2#comment-124501
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
This thread is a great example of why self promotion should not be allowed here and that there should be a off topic lounge where threads can be banished to/purged from if they have nothing to do with Trisquel or receiving support for Trisquel users. This forum needs rules that are strictly enforced that are in keeping with people seeking support with using Trisquel. If that was done this list would be 1,000% easier to moderate AND use. Right now we have users posting about completely unconnected distros, self promotion, accessing porn services, and political rants. This all buries legitimate inquiries about Trisquel and is part of the reason there are so many repeat threads, they get buried off the main page almost immediately by totally unrelated posts. Minifree and technoethical should have their own support forums and stop stomping on Trisquels.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Not true, you called that thing to yourself: >It's obvious to me that Tiberiu asked you to do this. The timing is too perfect. I mean call me paranoid but... yeah. >I demand an apology. Well, I also would like to have an apology from you. If you have treated me with due respect in this forum just letting me express peacefully my experience I would have not felt compelled to reply you. But no, you just began inventing things about how you dealt with my order, calling me things, defaming me, tying me not to speak even by the means of trying to buy me... too much! >One of my customers, whose order I did genuinely screw up Future customers of Minifree, this is what you can expect from Leah! If it happens that your order become an horrible experience as ours you will can expect being called things publicly in a forum, tried to be silenced with bad practices, etc... if you just share with others what happened to you. >You have repeatedly lied, slandered and attacked Minifree, all for your own commercial gain. He did not do any of those neither. Are you able to speak about things with honesty and fairness, please?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Is it not too late for trying to become friend of people that you have tried to hurt? I have been reading Trisquel forums for long and you always do the same with Tiberiu, you try to say the worst about him and Technoethical but later when things are evident and facts become to get against you ... Then you change your mind "Tiberiu I really appreciate you...", "Tiberiu we should get along well..." "We are similar to Technoethical", etc... However every time soon after Tiberiu lower his guard against you, you began attacking himself and Technoethical again. And this is just an eternal and exhausting situation. Do you thing people are going to be eternally having pity on you? Just make thing easier beginning to treat people with respect without inventing things about them and without calling them things. >Tiberiu, I'm serious. I believe we would both be better served working with each other, instead of fighting. The point is that you are always the one beginning fights, not allowing others to speak nor to share real facts. I am really concerned because I am beginning to appreciate what is your real problem. It is a real one. However I will not name it hear, because I have true respect for good people who share your problem. Please, just try to be a good person, and people who you think are against you will not have to be exhaustingly defending themselves from you.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Another idea: why not do a Christmas Giving Guide on libreboot.org, every year? Similar to the FSF one, but focused entirely on Libreboot (FSF one also covers other devices). It's probably too late to do one this year, but we could do it next year. Tiberiu, I'm serious. I believe we would both be better served working with each other, instead of fighting. We could also go further beyond the agreement; for instance, if someone is asking about a product that one of us doesn't sell, we recommend the other supplier. So for instance, Minifree doesn't sell the X200 Tablet. If someone asks about that, I'll tell them about your X200T product.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
If the deal is agreed on, I'm going to call it the united federation of libreboot suppliers, in my head. Literally. I just want to focus on my work, and not fight with anyone.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
> So you can either stay small and not register for VAT, or get big and have to register for VAT - and charge more to your EU customers - or lower your price. Tough call. Oh dear, that's not how it works. If you register for VAT because you have to or because you voluntarily do doesn't necessarily change your pricing. In return you can reclaim any VAT that you are charged with when you pay for goods and services. Basically, in the regard of your price calculation, it doesn't matter much if you're VAT registered or not. Not to mention that private buyers outside the EU will have to pay their locally valid import tax for most goods.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I'm amazed that Leah is still trying to reason with them, negotiate. You should pay them no attention. All they are ever going to do is take your words, twist them and throw them back at you in some awfully garbled form that bears no semblance to the meaning of your message.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Hi everyone. In the interest of transparency, I will publish this email I have just now sent to Technoethical, in an attempt to de-escelate and end all of these hostilities: To: Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic From: Leah Rowe Subject: peace deal Cc: Vikings , i...@libiquity.com, Free Software Foundation , John Sullivan Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 11:59:38 + User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi Tiberiu, This email is in my capacity as the director of Minifree, and not in any way as a member of the Libreboot project. I'm CC'ing my other competitors aswell, aswell as the FSF, in the interest of both transparency and fairness. I do not wish for this to be negotiated in secret between us. I'm really not happy with your behaviour on the recent Trisquel thread about Minifree's Libreboot X200 re-launch. That being said, I understand why you would do it. I'm also guilty of rotten behaviour ther e. I will not ask you to apologize. I will simply forgive you, whether you're sorry or not. For avoidance of doubt, I refer to this thread: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/libreboot-x200-returns-minifree What I'm about to propose has a single premise in mind: to end any hostilities or tensions between the 4 of us (minifree, technoethical, vikings, libiquity). I'm not asking for us to work together, I'm simply asking that we stop being hostile with each other. I get it, I really do. But I don't want it to continue. I have a proposal which I believe will benefit both of us. Please consider it: 1) I link to Technoethical on Minifree You link to Minifree on Technoethical This will benefit both of us. You have strengths over Minifree, and Minifree has strengths over you. We link to each other, and let people choose. By doing this, we both get more publicity. Minifree has quite a lot of exposure on search engines and blogs. You would get more visitors to your website. I will also link to Vikings and Libiquity - whether or not they then link to Minifree is irrelevant to me, but I hope they will. The 3 of you already have this deal going between all of you, of linking to each other. Basically, I propose to join this team, so that the 4 of us cooperate in this manner. 2) We both announce our new alliance-of-sorts, publicly, in the X200 thread on Trisquel forums, and agree to cooperate from now on. It may also be preferable to announce a brand new thread for this. We both then stop responding on the Trisquel thread where the dispute recently occured. We also both agree not to respond in the X200 thread anymore. I will eventually, perhaps, start a new thread. I'm planning several changes to Minifree in the run-up to christmas, including changes to the X200. If I do start that new thread, I will put a footnote in the bottom saying this: PS: These companies also sell the X200. They are also good alternatives to Minifree: technoethical, vikings, libiquity 3) As much as possible, I will try not to step on your toes at all. So for instance, I won't say "Minifree is cheaper than Technoethical". I'll simply focus on Minifree, and as much as possible, try not to focus on you at all, or on others for that matter. You will also do the same. This is not to say that we won't compete. Of course we'll do that. We will simply acknowledge each others existence and respect each other to the best of our abilities, and not try to attack each other in any wa y. The fighting must end. It is damaging not just our companies, but also the community at large. I'm proposing that we at least be civil with each other. I leave this with you to consider. I will execute my part of this deal immediately, if you agree. PS: Even if you reject this deal, I will still play my part and try not to anger you anymore. The last thing I want to do is fight with you. It causes me endless stress, and I'd rather focus on more important things. I have my own priorities, such as Minifree and Libreboot, but also many others. It is illogical to fight. - -- Leah Rowe Libreboot developer and project founder. Use free software. Free as in freedom. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html Use a free BIOS - https://libreboot.org/ Use a free operating system, GNU+Linux. Support computer user freedom https://fsf.org/ - https://gnu.org/ Minifree Ltd, trading as Ministry of Freedom | Registered in England, No. 9361826 | VAT No. GB202190462 Registered Office: 19 Hilton Road, Canvey Island, Essex SS8 9QA, UK | Web: https://minifree.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEE+JRrnG26iGmvPhSA/0W3TPnRz5QFAloyZ6oACgkQ/0W3TPnR z5Rs1Af+PPLRVorcLM4PujsDbDOrYF3upVpCN9RbeEN8DG6oPURqYMD7mOl0VVgK TjSrPWypNaJFqXmY6vOHlbEdt2Y8Rzcvo/u06Dck9Q8AlakrSSco3IE4j7PAfxJG aur91vZkXMwkgc2BV/gBuY7wap4oUn07YSXf5CJEANuZJWPlAnFQGNUFBjIzTYzG
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I'm about to send you an email. I'm also going to announce the email on this thread.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I got tired of Leah underestimating everyone's capacity to judge for themselves if something is true or not, based on facts. It's ridiculous how she considers that we're all morons and that we'll simply take her word despite what we see with our own eyes. I'm also tired of having to come forward to make statements to correct her. I've been a free software activist for the past 11 years, but I'm deeply sorry that being involved in this important movement means having to deal with a leader that has a record of instability. But it doesn't have to continue to be this way. Leaders have power until we stop granting it to them. Tiberiu
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Alternatively, I'm right, and your response is - and vltr's supporting comment - is a desperate attempt at denial. You two are in perfect sync, both in the timing of your posts, and in the things you say, and the attitudes that you have. This is mere speculation. It's impossible to prove my theory or to disprove it, but it's plausible. It's also likely that my accusation would be denied by the accused. It's only natural.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Just for the record, for clarity, I want to say what happened: * Technoethical tried to trash Minifree in this thread, suggesting that Minifree provides poor quality service/products * One of my customers, whose order I did genuinely screw up - yes, mistakes happen, sometimes. they are none - does the same thing as Technoethical, recounting their negative experience. This serves to give the impression that every Minifree customer will have the same rotten experience as they did. In reality, what it actually does is exploit a little thing known as "confirmation bias". In reality, this customer wouldn't accept a refund, even though one was offered. I would have given one immediately, as I do with every other customer who wants one. They then went on a continued, concentrated angry crusade against me. They then tried to astroturf, along with Tiberiu, by calling me paranoid etc or claiming that I believed there was some mad conspiracy by the world against me. No. It's just 1 person along with Technoethical who have tried to trash this thread. Had they not interfered, the thread would be going along smoothly. And btw, my sales are still zero since December 11th. Not because any of what vltr or Technoethical have said is actually true, but because they made others think that it is. Let me re-phrase that: a hostile competitor may very well have damaged my company, by spreading slander about mine, on this forum. I do not appreciate this. For their sake, I hope I'm not right.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Yes, this ^ This former customer of mine does not appreciate the great lengths I've gone to to make things right, with their order, one of those few rare ones I mess up on - which I've admitted I messed up several times. Instead of being happy, they went an an angry crusade against me trying to suggest that everyone will have the same bad experience as them. If that were true, Minifree would have stopped doing business a long time ago. Hell I'd probably even be in prison, instead of defending myself against this troll on the Trisquel forums.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Actually, no. It's just you and Tiberiu against me. Nobody else. But you've tried to turn others against me, by painting Minifree as being worse than it is. You've repeatedly spread FUD against my company, and I hope that the negative effect of everything you and Tiberiu have done in this thread is not permanent.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
>I'll be very aggressively shipping my X200s this week, as many of them as I can, and I'll be bringing people here to write positive reviews about their laptops that they've bought. When I read things like this from Leah, I just get amazed... Honestly I have no words. Do you think you are Angela Channing in a Falcon Crest episode? It is not about shipping aggressively, but just about shipping laptops with a minimum level of quality, which are clean, with a working administrative password, not written with tippex, treating customers in a good manner, answering their emails, and so on... Do you think you can take the challenge? I am not confident you can, but certainly I encourage you to do so. Cheer up!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I'm sorry this happened again, Leah. Thanks so much for all of your hard work. I'm glad that a variety of vendors can ethically distribute freedom-respecting laptops that you made possible. Forum posts do not seem to be the best medium for providing information about products from any of these vendors. Perhaps adverts like ThinkPenguin's would be a better way of informing the Trisquel community.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
>Get real. The history of events: I also share the view that everything happened in the way that Tiberiu said. >Oh Leah, I read the kinds of you like open books. Stop this nonsense, get real and do better job for the customers that trust you. Don't wait for them to complain (request to replace) to treat them well (prepare a good replacement). And you'll see you'll not get so many complaints any more. Take my advice, the way you're doing business will not scale. Because you are rising artificially on a growing pile of skeletons (old orders) that keep cracking underneath you and you need to take care of them. Because people don't stay silent forever. I am also having the impression that this is the kind of business model that this company is promoting, and I also share the view that it is not sustainable over time. You expressed it here in a very poetic sense :D ... very appropriate for Leah's self created drama.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Zotis, I completely share your appreciation about Minifree business model just caring about making profit. I am not agaisnt that. But business can be made and should be made with nice manners and not with bad business practices and as far as I am concerned, I do not see any of them present in Minifree's activty. Your English is fine. Where are you from? If you speak Spanish I invite you to participate in the future post that I am planning to write about Minifre. As long as Leah complains about us speaking here freely, I think it is better just to create a whole thread for people for people being able to speaks openly about their experiences with Minifree without them being called things by this lady.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
This is getting totally out of hand. Ridiculously predictable, though. You call refund and free replacement "buying silence"? A business has no other obligation. Leah has gone to great lengths to amend her mistake and yet you fail to appreciate anything that she's been doing to set things right. She's reached out to you and you fail to recognize her true intentions. You pretend to be butt-hurt and go on with this crusade like no end and refuse to accept an apology. There's no business in the world that has a magic wand to turn back time. Take it or leave it but please come to your senses. There are customers and there are shills. Take your pick.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Of course you did not refunded me and we do not want a refund now. We just wanted to tell our experience. Are you able to deal with that once and for all? Stop misleading people who just read one post and not the whole thread inventing constantly the facts of the case. I have made everything clear many times in this thread, but seems that you just try to leave some lies here and there just for misleading anyone not able to read the whole thread. Are you asking so many times about the same for real? What kind of business manager are you not being able to recall exactly the facts of the case and inventing them in from of others. Stop mistreating your customers, this time trying to buy their silence.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Why should I answer you whenever you want about whatever you want having into account that you did not reply the emails we sent you nor to the calls we made you for over 12 days? Even more, how are you able to manage a business if you are not able to bring back to you the facts of the case? Tiberiu has less information than you but he is able to know about his order with us. Technoethical caring more for their orders and customers? I would say so. I have nothing more to clarify, not say nothing more to speak to you. As I have said multiple times in this thread you never tried to solve the situation. You never offered a replacement, refund or whatever until few days we wrote our review here, nor hence we were able to decline any of those things. Have some rest, take it easy and care more about your orders and customers in the future.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Have to disagree on that policy, the whole point is Libre tech. If a company is making false claims, such as they are Libre, and then turn out to be not so Libre, we need to know. If someone is using blood CPU's. that is pretty important. Remember, Richard Stallman got arrested by ATI (now a part of AMD) for protesting their non-free drivers. Same goes with AMD not having drivers like Nouveau to help free as in freedom tech. The whole point of Trisquel is free (as in freedom) tech and by definition, not engaging in opressive practices, either in the design or fabrication phase. If you do not publically identify demonstrable, verifiable (not fake news) wrong doing here, that is taking a step backwards.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
Yes, this is really silly. If people have a customer grievance, then they should really take it up in private. It's not healthy for the free-software community to be backbiting each other like this :-(
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
I literally do not defraud or deceive my customers. I literally ship every order, or refund when requested. The comments by this person and Tiberiu in this thread are blatant, consistent, concentrated attacks against me. I ship almost every order, in good time, and the products that I sell are of decent quality. I occasionally make mistakes, like anyone, so one or two customers get a faulty product or I somehow forget to ship their order... it happens. Not often, but it does. It happened with this person. They complained to me. In the event, I very likely refunded them, but they're not revealing this. Or I hurried up their order and shipped it immediately. I also apologized, in this thread... I'll provide it. vltr: So, if I understand correctly from your post, are you now admitting that you never had me refund you? Yes or no: did I refund you. If the answer is no, please send me your wiring instructions immediately, via email, and I'll refund you. Don't believe me? Send that email.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree
No, I'm not and you are right, I'm sort of new in this forum (not first time in a public forum, though). I just have been getting more and more nervous about this conversation going nowhere and getting harmful, while at the same time the conversation stopped being respectful at some point. I apologize if I wasn't polite myself or if what I said led to confusion. I just believe that in this same forum there's a "English Trisquel GNU/Linux users forum" and a "formerly called "the troll hole", this place has aged nicely and sometimes provides a cozy environment for off-topic conversations. Also trolling --just not all the time--. Visitors are still encouraged to be at least civic." and it should be respected, that's what they are for. However, you are right that I'm not the one that should take care of that being respected, sorry for it, I won't do it again.
