Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Good Point! Thinking Trisquel as its own distribution is required for becoming Trisquel independent of (non-free) Ubuntu!
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
The one think I really like about Trisquel is the slower release cycle, the it will be done when it is done mentality. Ubuntu is its own thing, we would all be best to ignore its movements. Not having the push an shove to be out on an exact date on an exact minute so that there can be the scramble to get into the system is actually a much more relaxing style and one I can see a lof of the free software community eventually adopting. Relax. Take it easy. It will all be cool in the end.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
lulz, viejito, I am starting to predict your answers. I knew you'd write something like that. Btw, your post is the smartest one in this thread, being that the whole of it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Anybody who has read even half of what I've written in this thread knows what I think on these issues. We are going around in circles; We are repeating ourselves. Ruben has already given a timeline here: https://trisquel.info/en/new-cycle-what-we-achieved-and-whats-come Ruben said, "This year [2016] will bring us Trisquel 8, codename "Flidas" So, unless something really new comes up, I will stop posting on this subject until at least: January 1, 2017
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Ruben says he was hired as a senior system administrator--that has other responsibilities. Ruben said, "I'm now in a job situation more compatible with the project" This implies to me that his new job will make it easier to find time to work on Trisquel. It does not imply to me that his job at the FSF is to work on Trisquel.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
If I have to wait two years for a new release of Trisquel, I rather eat other flavors of yogurt Ice cream. This trisquel started to taste like an expired by date paico,,,
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Ruben is employed by the FSF now, so he can concentrate on Trisquel. He is getting paid no matter what and why it would be surprising if Trisquel 8 took so long.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
"You are paying him to work on the project" Really? OK, well you are not paying him anywhere near enough to keep him from quitting and taking a consulting job that pays 10x as much money. In fact, he is sacrificing a lot of money to help YOU and you owe him a lot more money for doing that. So, again, he doesn't owe you anything. Let me make it even clearer: Tell you what, I'll pay you $5/hour (maybe--if you are lucky!) if you work 20 hours / week in addition to whatever else you do with your real job, friends, family, etc... Here are some conditions to this wonderful job for $5/hour: 1.) I won't guarantee you that you will get the $5/hour 2.) If consulting work comes up that pays $50/hour you will not have time to take it. Your priority is this $5/hour job!! 3.) You are to report to me when I tell you to report to me. If you do not, I will complain every day and call you unprofessional and perhaps even fire you (if you didn't quit already!) 4.) You will explain to others that it takes about 2 years between major releases of your work. They will bother you every single day after only 1.5 years has passed. Maybe you are right. Maybe he should be grateful for the $5/hour and the obnoxious behavior of his 'employer'. Jobs are scarce right now. He might not even be able to get a job pumping gasoline or delivering pizza where he would make more money! Maybe we should wait until somebody comes along who would appreciate the pittance and the abuse. I'm sure Ruben would be happy to quit and give that person the reins. That should work out really well...until they quit. If you want professional results, pay a professional salary
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Well... I've donated some BC to ask forgiveness for reviving this post with such a discussion... Considering the user base, I wouldn't expect Trisquel coming sooner than Elementary OS (last blog post on 26th of April) or Linux Mint. Everything can be improved, and a better approach might be: What can we do to help?
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
"What sacrifices are you making by using Trisquel 7 that you won't have to make once Trisquel 8 comes out?" I'm sure some of us would really want to try out KDE 5 (if not me)
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Care to provide sources to backup your claims? Does this regard all Ubuntu versions or just the main one with Unity? I've heard that Ubuntu MATE 16.04 is a stellar release due to the love Martin Wimpress puts into it. This is why I sincerely hope that Trisquel 8 settles on MATE. But we are in the dark with what Trisquel 8 actually is.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
If you gave him a donation, you should be entitled to updates. You are paying him to work on the project and he should respect those who financially support him. What are you paying for? Hope that your benevolent dictator throws you scraps? That you will praise him without getting anything in return?
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
This is why I say Sunday, July 18, 2106. Now those professionals have something to put on the calendar. (And when Trisquel 8 ships decades before that date they can be happy and say "Wow - Shipping in advance of a deadline - How awesome!" (And I wonder what those professionals do for other distros that don't have a fixed release date either. Like, say, Debian which is "when it's ready.")
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
"I know that this may come out as a surprise to you, but professional people always work with timelines in mind." It doesn't surprise me at all. You know what would surprise me? If Ruben came here and said he has a nice professional timeline for us: Trisquel 8 will be released June 5th, 2017 at 09:00 GMT And you then say, "Thank you Ruben, how professional of you. I am happy now that you have made a professional release date!" THAT would surprise me. Because I don't think the professionalism of release dates is what will satisfy you. You want Trisquel 8 NOW. If you can't have it today, you want it tomorrow; if you can't have it this week, you want it next week. You have my apologies if you would be OK with a release date that is one year from today. If you are OK with that date, it would show that what matters most to you is the professionalism of a declared and official release date! Now if you want BOTH an professional release date, and a release date that is soon, then you are being unreasonable. For Ruben to give you a date that is soon enough for you, it may not be enough time for him to get the job done. Then you will say he is unprofessional for not releasing on schedule! If Ruben gives you a date that is not soon enough for you, but enough time for him to get the job done, you will complain that the release time is too long and unprofessional! Let's let Ruben release Trisquel 8 on his schedule. No matter how many times the kids in the backseat say, "are we there yet?", the trip still takes as long as it takes. The only difference is that it is so annoying, it may make it harder to drive there.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
mn...@openmailbox.org, Sáb 04 Xuñ 2016 23:21:34 CEST: An impatient child in the back seat of a car on its way to Disneyland who constantly asks "are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet?..." I know that this may come out as a surprise to you, but professional people always work with timelines in mind. Ignacio Agulló · agu...@ati.es This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Enigmail uses the gpg2 binary now instead of original gpg because gpg2 solves many problems with the implementation of gpg. If you change a key in gpg, gpg2 doesn't always update the key. I changed my gpg key password using "gpg --edit-key" but since Enigmail uses gpg2 it would only accept the old password. So I try to use gpg2 in the command line for the sake of simplicity.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Following on, what I did was export my private key from my gpg keyring, delete my private key from my gpg2 keyring, then re-import it. Enigmail worked great after that.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
No, systemd is very good at the job it does. There are legitimate qualms with its design but systemd has nothing to do with the brokenness of Ubuntu 16.04.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
If you have been reading my posts you would guess correctly that this 'rumour' is not real. The idea was to illustrate how misguided it is to focus on Ubuntu when talking about the Trisquel development cycle. When it comes to Ubuntu I have 5 words: 1. Who 2. Cares 3. Get 4. Over 5. It If expediency was the main goal, then Trisquel may or may not be the best choice at any given point in time. What would be best is whatever distro works best this week--given that it is possible to use free software only. The main goal, as I understand it, is to focus the free software community's efforts on Trisquel (or at least on a single distro) in order to get the best leverage from a relatively small number of people. I'm assuming that you (onpon4) know all about the FSF's position regarding Ubuntu; I'm certain you understand it better than I do. Out of curiosity: What is your position, as a free software user, on using Ubuntu?
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
> Some people here vocally talk about their use of Debian, particularly Testing/Unstable. So I think that the idea that we are content with older software is exaggerated. I wouldn't give my Stable for all the new free software in the World. Versionitis can be cured, no need for a hammer too. :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
I'm using Ubuntu GNOME 16.04 lately, and I have less problems with it than I had with either Trisquel 7 or Debian 8. The only problems I've experienced are that the graphical key management program and Enigmail don't seem to be storing the same keys as the command-line GnuPG (no idea why; keys stored there are not detected by the command-line GnuPG and vice-versa), Software has a bit of a buggy display (it doesn't consistently correctly show whether or not a package is installed), and IDLE doesn't work properly for some reason. These are all minor compared to the problems I had with Trisquel 7 and Debian 8.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
lemme guess... systemd
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
That is an excellent point! In fact, it is the best point. Even in this case, however, there is often work that can be done to try and solve the problem before the new release. In fact, this is one way we can help the development of Trisquel 8. It may be the only way to solve the problem in question. After all, you can get the new release and still have the problem. If Trisquel 8 could solve every possible problem, we will never need a Trisquel 9. Since it obviously can't solve every possible problem, how do you know if your problem will be one of the solved problems? Can you give links to the thread(s) you posted about this PDF problem? Granted, there are cases where either: 1.) Every possible thing has been tried OR 2.) It is known that a certain new package, or version of a package, will resolve a particular problem and nothing else will help [this is the strongest case for a quick release of Trisquel 8]. However, I'm not convinced that these cases are common enough to account for of this 'new release mania'. Rather than passively waiting and praying that the new release will solve the problems for us, let's be proactive and help the project by taking a fresh look at some of these problems and try and fix them ourselves if at all possible.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
By the way, I heard a rumour that the latest Ubuntu release is having some serious problems. Apparently they released too soon and now they have a lot of back peddling to do. It is a little embarrassing actually. I''m so glad we didn't just dive in after them. Let's let them work it out for a while; We will use it when it becomes more stable.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
My theory is that all of this dissent is due to one thing and one thing only: The giddiness comparable to that of a child on Christmas morning that cannot wait to open their presents. An impatient child in the back seat of a car on its way to Disneyland who constantly asks "are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet?..." A desire to see Trisquel 8, in and of itself. Not because of any driving necessity, but because Ubuntu's new version is out and where is ours??
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Part of the issue is that there are some packages that cannot be updated separately, because they lack the proper dependencies. Also, I don't know about anyone else, but I have a problem where I cannot fill out PDF files in Trisquel; perhaps it's just because I'm using Libreboot, but the hope is that a new release may perhaps address some of those issues. I think that it's possible that some of the eagerness toward the release of Trisquel 8 comes from people who might have similar problems, and are unable to simply update/upgrade individual packages.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Obviously they are aware that they want feedback otherwise they wouldn't have produced that blog post when people demanded news. They perhaps think that people will say "why don't you wait, do you really need newer software" to anyone who asks for news and are content in staying without contact because they know that they will always have support of the Free Software Foundation. I know it is good to have Trisquel but the fact of the matter is that it is still pretty obscure. Even Ubuntu has not got very many users in the grand scheme of things, and Canonical could easily go bankrupt as it makes little money from Ubuntu. I truly do appreciate the work that goes into Trisquel's development and maintenance, and appreciate it must be difficult, but the fact of the matter is we need more communication! Without communcication development will probably not grow and this will be bad for the community. The thing is, freedom also means that people can easily switch away. Some people here vocally talk about their use of Debian, particularly Testing/Unstable. So I think that the idea that we are content with older software is exaggerated. Older software often doesn't get maintained after a while. Even Ubuntu's developers can only do so much. For security and performance, newer software is often better. Ubuntu also don't maintain the 'Universe' repository which Trisquel pulls alongside main into its single repository. The fact is old verstions tend to be pretty hard to maintain, otherwise large companies would not pay for Red Hat for RHEL and for the support and stability that comes with it, over a long period of time.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
>Hear hear! Plus, if we figure a release (roughly) every two years it's not even been two years since version 7 came out. So 8 shouldn't even be on the radar until late 2016. Possibly even 2017... Nah, we are the **libres**, we demand, we pretend and we want it now, else there will be dire consequences! If Ruben doesn't give use **it** by the year 2016 he ***will*** be fired! Jodiendo is already training to supersede.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
And you have a point. I think we should get into it after Trisquel 8 release. Do you think they are unaware that we would like feedback?
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
I know they don't owe us anything. If they wanted to make their lives easier they could always, you know, ask for help. And they need more people because development seems to be at a snail's speed. What I'm saying is they don't seem to be very inclusive, small things like giving periodic news do not happen, which would attract help. I know they are volunteers, but that isn't the point. I'm criticising the development model not their contribution to free software.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
OK, once and for all: What is wrong with Trisquel 7? What sacrifices are you making by using Trisquel 7 that you won't have to make once Trisquel 8 comes out? Do you have any intermediate step--like upgrading individual programs you need upgraded?
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
what bureaucracy? There is only one or two people! They don't owe us anything at all. We owe them for the thousands of unpaid hours they devoted to this project I agree that more communication would be nice. I'm sure they feel that way too. So the lack of communication is despite everybody's preference for communication.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Well, they could give us more than one single blog post. It is their responsibility to keep interest in their project as its developers. Status updates do not mean daily. They do not even mean monthly, just a small idea of how things are going. Maybe it would encourage people to help, instead of this bureacracy and opacity.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Just after seeing title of this post, I was expecting to see this cliche answer ;)
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Can it be bootstrapped yet?
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
The rest of your post aside, I don't think I see any claims that the project is open (only that the software is free, libre)
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
"So, those of us who feel we deserved to be informed should change to Ubuntu?" WHAT!?! Is it that much of a sacrifice to be patient until Trisquel 8 comes out? By the way, what is wrong with Trisquel 7 ?? Is something broken on your system? Why does Trisquel 8 matter so much to you? Or, are you saying that you feel you should be kept informed in the manner you expect, or else you will lead others to use nonfree software? At best that is childish and at worst it is blackmail. There has to be more things about Trisquel that you like besides good communication about new releases?!? Free software has to be important enough to you that you would not push people to use nonfree software just because you are impatient or like to be kept informed. You have been part of this community for a very long time. Why would you make such threats? Obviously in the past there was better communication, but was that the only reason you stayed with Trisquel? Or is being kept informed so important that it is a deal breaker for you; That you would rather use nonfree software!!!
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
jade...@openmailbox.org, Sáb 04 Xuñ 2016 17:09:53 CEST: Exactly! We need to appreciate all of Ruben's hard work and realize that we aren't entitled to him giving us status updates. So, those of us who feel we deserved to be informed should change to Ubuntu? Ignacio Agulló · agu...@ati.es This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
"We need more direct participation in Trisquel's development." I think this is a valid point. But it is a right idea at the wrong time. Creating an effective team of skilled developers takes time. We are close enough to Trisquel 8, that it could take more time to build a working team than it would to release Trisquel 8! Are you willing to delay the release of Trisquel 8 to start making this team now? Why not pursue this with Ruben after Trisquel 8 comes out. Then you have 2 whole years to build and coordinate an effective development team.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Exactly! We need to appreciate all of Ruben's hard work and realize that we aren't entitled to him giving us status updates.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
"Yeah well there is no communication." OK, he is working and not communicating with us "blog post was put out only after people complained about lack of news." OK, he is still working and now communicating with us "we are justified to assume nothing is happening." No. I disagree. As you can see from the previous two points, in both cases he was working. It is only reasonable to assume nothing is happening when there is no communication, if that is the agreement on BOTH sides. Let us pretend that Trisquel 8 is released, do you think Ruben would agree that his lack of communication means that he is not working on this? That this is the protocol: 1.) I communicate with you and I am working OR 2.) I don't communicate with you and I am not working. You are leaving out the other two possibilities that can exist in that matrix: 1.) I communicate with you and I am not working 2.) I don't communicate with you and I am working You can rule out the two possibilities that involve communication--because he is not communicating. You cannot rule out the other two: 1.) I don't communicate with you and I am working 2.) I don't communicate with you and I am not working Since you do not know which, the best choice is to assume he is working but not communicating.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
> There is an assumption that Ruben is not working on this. Isn't it possible that he is working very hard at releasing it and is running into some problems that take time to fix? Yeah well there is no communication. So we are justified to assume nothing is happening. Remember that blog post was put out only after people complained about lack of news.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Hear hear! Plus, if we figure a release (roughly) every two years it's not even been two years since version 7 came out. So 8 shouldn't even be on the radar until late 2016. Possibly even 2017...
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Here is a pattern I normally see with distro versions: 1 < 2 < 3 < 4 < 5 < 6 < 7 < 8 < 9 and so on. In other words, there is a direct correlation between time and improvement. This would imply that the longer we wait, the better it will be! Also, if you insist on thinking in terms of Ubuntu releases, the longer we wait now, the closer we will be to the release of version 9! :) Perhaps if we rush the release of Trisquel 8, it will have more flaws. There is an assumption that Ruben is not working on this. Isn't it possible that he is working very hard at releasing it and is running into some problems that take time to fix? If we rush him we: a.) put pressure on him b.) encourage a Trisquel 8 with more flaws if he gives in to pressure and releases version 8 before it is ready. The only problem here is that people know that Ubuntu's latest version has been released. This should not be a problem if Trisquel is treated as its own distribution. Trisquel is not Ubuntu, just as Ubuntu is not Debian. Debian and Ubuntu have very different release schedules and priorities. So too, Trisquel and Ubuntu have different priorities and schedules. My advice: Don't think of Trisquel as a liberated Ubuntu. Think of Trisquel as its own distribution, with its own release schedule and ignore Ubuntu completely.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
It's made by volunteers so there is no guarantee of anything. Something like Debian is surely more likely to keep going for years, possibly decades from now because it has strong support from various companies, a very large community and pool of users (relative to Trisquel) among academia and software developers. It forms the basis of many distributions so probably is most likely of all the distributions, along with Fedora and RHEL, to be around for the next few decades. Ubuntu could die easily if Canonical went bankrupt as it is basically snapshots of Debian unstable and a testbed for Canonical's projects. Point is, none of us have to use Trisquel. We choose to because we like the community and want a distribution based on just free software, but we are, to a certain extent, flailing in the dark, trying to find our way with technology. Yet we have the freedom to choose our path, and that's powerful. It's what makes free software great. Yet I totally see where you are coming from. We need more direct participation in Trisquel's development. If not I might well pack up if things get really slow due to what is essentially bureaucracy.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
This project claims to be open, but there is no communication what the default desktop environment will be and a tentative release date. Ruben needs to be more upfront.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
20/16/10
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
10/10/2016
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
But when? WHEN?!?! :P
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
My guess is probably sometime between September-December. That's around the time Trisquel 7 came out. If it comes out sooner, great. If it comes out later, then it comes out later. If it comes out Sunday, July 18, 2106, I will still be around. 119 years old, but I will refuse to die until I see it released.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
It's like how George RR Martin kills a character when people ask questions about releases and his physical health. You are worse though. You kill tangible dreams. ;'-(
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Every time this question is asked the release date is pushed out 4 more years. ;) It is now Sunday, July 18, 2106. ;)
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
>ScullyItsMulder cool nick ;)
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
I am sure they aren't even sure themselves. Hopefully we can get a release soon :) Excited for it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
It was not supposed to be taken literally. I mean, those who know won't give any clues or updates before they are ready to release. No conspiracy here.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
Those who know don't know Why would they keep such a fact from the community? It would make no sense.
Re: [Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
I suppose you've missed this. https://trisquel.info/en/forum/do-we-have-date-trisquel-8-release I guess the answer is: when ready. Those who know won't tell, the rest can only guess.
[Trisquel-users] When will Trisquel 8.0 (Flidas) release?
I've recently read article New cycle, what we achieved and what's to come. I am curious to know any approximate release date/month declared or announced?
