Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
ShieldsFamily wrote: I believe the temple priests drew lots to see which one of them would enter the Holy of Holies once/year. I think that gambling isnt a problem if you are losing money you can easily afford to lose; ie: pocket money. On the other hand, it is sinful as it is a waste. You have gotten nothing for what you spent, except a few moments/days of hope that you might win. Then you get the bad newsit wasnt YOUR lottery ticket that won. Again. However, if you had invested each dollar you spent on each lottery ticket for several years, well, maybe you could have bought a rabbit! Izzy PS If you DO win, remember your old friends on TT! PPS How many of you have ever known anyone who won a state lottery? (Ive known two.) Just a couple of quick thoughts off the top of my head before it quits producing thoughts for the day. 1. Buying a dream for two bucks is a bargain, not a waste. 2. Shopping for clothing at some designer store instead of a Goodwill store is a waste. One will keep you from running around naked as well as the other, and do it a lot cheaper. ( I am not criticizing your shopping habits. I do not know where you shop.) 3. Not winning the lotto is not bad news. If I won, I would have to give up my carefree life and take on great responsibility. 4. Careful study and years of experience have proven that my chances of winning the lottery are about the same whether I play or not. 5. If I win, and you happen to be living in a cardboard box and eating from the refuse in a dump just outside Manila, you will be the first one I share with. Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Terry Clifton wrote: Just a couple of quick thoughts off the top of my head before it quits producing thoughts for the day. 1. Buying a dream for two bucks is a bargain, DAVEH: And cheaper than buying a politician! not a waste. DAVEH: If one could limit the number of their dreams, you would be correct, Terry. The problem is that the folks who least can afford it become addicted and end up becoming enslaved to their dreams to the point they neglect reality..and their jobs, family and God. Terry -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm
On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:21:27 -0400 "Slade Henson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: jt said: Hi again Slade; I don't know about others but we do need to watch what comes out of our mouths as we have another Kingdom watching and waiting for a doorpoint of entry into our lives and God will not keep them out, this is our responsibility. slade says: Hello to you too, Judy. I still am referring to idioms. If you are referring to idioms we are in irreconcilable disagreement. jt: Are you calling the devil an idiom rather than a daily reality Slade? jt: I have no idea what "granite like faith" would look like but nowhere in scripture do I see God blessing unbelief and doubt. slade says: I am referring to "knowing without a shade of doubt." I see faith [or at least a strong form of it perhaps] as being a Spiritual gift given to some but not all. Someone with weaker faith than another is not in sin because of his lack of faith. In a similar vein, one person having less discernment than another is not in sin because of his lack of discernment. We all need to lift each other up where we are strong and get our strength from others where we are weak. This includes discernment as well as faith. jt: Faith can grow; the scriptures teach that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" and in our generation we are truly blessed to have access to this Word along with all the other words vying for our attention. slade continues: I really hope my analogy between weak faith and weak discernment is understood because I really don't want to dwell on THAT topic as well. I tend to quickly dismiss a topic when there is no connection/understanding between me and the other person. jt: The way I understand itoneeither walks in discernment or they walk in ignorance; they are either walking in truth or they are walking in error.Not that anyone has all truth or all knowledge but if the little one has is truth then we grow in that. Unbelief andstiff necks are not good. jt said: Even Jesus Himself could do no mighty works in his hometown because of their unbelief. slade says: A little limiting but that's ok. You don't believe in the Deity of Messiah Yeshua, do you? (I.e., Do you believe Jesus is God)? jt: I do believe that Jesus is anequal member of the Godhead but during His earthly ministry He made Himself subject to the Father in every way. What would makeyou suggest that I don't believe in His diety Slade? Just wondering, Grace and Peace, judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm
During his earthly ministry Jesus only ever did what he first saw the Father doingso it wasn't a matter of "inability" - had faith been present there would have been no "unwillingness" because aside fromfaith it is impossible to please God and it is by faith that we receive His promises. Remember Abraham BELIEVED God and it was counted to him as righteousness. Asfor Jesus' deity, I believe He is and has always been God the Word but when He entered this dimension He layed aside the glory He had in heaven with the Father; He was born as a man under the law and He operated as a man under authority during the time of His ministry here so thatHe could leave us an example and we couldfollow "inHis steps" He said He spoke the Words given Him by the Father and He only did what He first saw the Father doing. He walked in the "fullness" of the Holy Spirit.We are each given a measure of the Spirit sothe Church as a corporate body should be doing the same kind of works as Jesus did in the same kind of power and will be by the timeHe returns to claim us asHis bride. Are we at least close to the same page Slade :) I know we can agree that he is "all loving" "all powerful" "all merciful" and "all sufficient" A church Iattended onceused to sing: "We've come this far by faith, leaning on the Lord. Trusting in His Holy Word, He's never failed us yet" Singing "Ooh we can't turn back." "We've come this far by faith" At the ministry where I just spent a week there are quite a few Jewish peoplevolunteering there. Apparently many of them began to believewhen the pastor showedthemJesus in the Torah, some were healed first but they allcame to faith and areso zealous in the Lord's vineyard today because they now havezeal according to knowledge. It certainly is something to behold and a praise in the earth. Grace and Peace, Judy in LA On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:10:34 -0400 "Slade Henson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My point is the difference between the "could" [the inability]and the "would" [the unwillingness]. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Terry CliftonSent: Monday, 20 September, 2004 16.11To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm jt said: Even Jesus Himself could do no mighty works in his hometown because of their unbelief. slade says: A little limiting but that's ok. You don't believe in the Deity of Messiah Yeshua, do you? (I.e., Do you believe Jesus is God)?Since Judy's statement comes from the Bible, which is true, and since Jesus is God, isn't it possible that God limits Himself? eg: He only gives grace to the humble.Terry
RE: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: [Infinite Supply] Tuesday, September 21, 2004]
Really excellent! Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 9:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: [Infinite Supply] Tuesday, September 21, 2004] Couldn't say it better myself if I tried all day. Terry - Hi Terry, Today's meditation is taken from: THE WAY OF THE DISCIPLE by Chip Brogden http://www.watchman.net/articles/disciple.html :: He must increase, but I must decrease (John 3:30). A disciple of the Lord Jesus is someone who enters the narrow gate and walks the narrow path until they come to the end of the narrow path and are left with nothing but Christ. As you can see, this is a very, very narrow way, which is why few find it, and fewer still remain on it once they find it. Nothing of self can be retained. All of self must be lost in order to gain Christ. As we walk the narrow way we are being changed from glory to glory. Today we should reflect a little more of the glory of God than yesterday; tomorrow we will reflect yet more than we did today. This is growth. Growth is not more knowledge or increase of years: it is simply more of Him and less of me. He increases as I decrease. This is what it means to be a disciple. :: Infinite Supply http://www.watchman.net/daily - ( -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Dave Hansen wrote: Terry Clifton wrote: Just a couple of quick thoughts off the top of my head before it quits producing thoughts for the day. 1. Buying a dream for two bucks is a bargain, DAVEH: And cheaper than buying a politician! not a waste. DAVEH: If one could limit the number of their dreams, you would be correct, Terry. The problem is that the folks who least can afford it become addicted and end up becoming enslaved to their dreams to the point they neglect reality..and their jobs, family and God. It ain't just the po' fokes Dave. Bill Bennett was a big wheel republican/Christian that got into gambling on a scale that cost him his credibility and his money. I contend that it is a problem with self far more than with financial standing in the community. Jesus command is to deny self and follow Him, but we are self absorbed self seeking, self willed, self made, self centered, selfish, self reliant, and on and on. Just about everything except what Paul advises, self control. Terry -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Very funny, Dave. Actually the two people I have known were (1) a woman who was in a quilting guild I used to belong to whose husband had won years ago and were living a nice normal life in a lovely home, and (2) a very ugly young man who put a bunch of numbers in a brown bag and shook it up to select his winning lottery number. Im sure he had no lack of beautiful women chasing him after that. He was the brother of an (equally ugly) man who worked behind the desk at the post office. They were both balloon team helpers back when I owned a hot air balloon, and after he won there was one man who wished he hadnt chased him off from trying to date his daughter! I thought it was cosmic justice. J Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? DAVEH: I suppose the best place to meet such people in casinos, eh! I haven't yet met any big winners. I guess I don't spend as much time on those river boats as you do, Iz. ;-) ShieldsFamily wrote: PPS How many of you have ever known anyone who won a state lottery? (Ive known two.) -- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain Five email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Izzy in red below: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 6:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? ShieldsFamily wrote: I believe the temple priests drew lots to see which one of them would enter the Holy of Holies once/year. I think that gambling isnt a problem if you are losing money you can easily afford to lose; ie: pocket money. On the other hand, it is sinful as it is a waste. You have gotten nothing for what you spent, except a few moments/days of hope that you might win. Then you get the bad newsit wasnt YOUR lottery ticket that won. Again. However, if you had invested each dollar you spent on each lottery ticket for several years, well, maybe you could have bought a rabbit! Izzy PS If you DO win, remember your old friends on TT! PPS How many of you have ever known anyone who won a state lottery? (Ive known two.) Just a couple of quick thoughts off the top of my head before it quits producing thoughts for the day. 1. Buying a dream for two bucks is a bargain, not a waste. I agree. Youve heard the story about the man who kept praying to win the lottery without any success? Finally God spoke to him and said, Buy a ticket, stupid! Every now and then I buy a ticket just in case God was wanting me to winso far He has resisted the urge. 2. Shopping for clothing at some designer store instead of a Goodwill store is a waste. One will keep you from running around naked as well as the other, and do it a lot cheaper. ( I am not criticizing your shopping habits. I do not know where you shop.) It all depends upon whether you are a retired guy or a woman who would rather buy a nice outfit now and then than win the lottery. J 3. Not winning the lotto is not bad news. If I won, I would have to give up my carefree life and take on great responsibility. So true!!! Id like to read some stories about all the unfortunates who have won and it ruined their lives. Then I could console myself. 4. Careful study and years of experience have proven that my chances of winning the lottery are about the same whether I play or not. See #1 above: if you dont buy one there is ZERO chance. If you do buy there is one chance in about a billion. Somewhat better odds. 5. If I win, and you happen to be living in a cardboard box and eating from the refuse in a dump just outside Manila, you will be the first one I share with. How about a brick box in St. Louis? J If I ever win Im going to buy you the fanciest rabbit hutches I can find! Ive been making mental notes of all the places Id like to support. Maybe today Ill start writing them down. Its good to have concrete dreams. Then Ill be ready. (Oh, Id better get a new ticket when I go to the grocery store this week!!!) You may all email me your wish lists so I can add them to the list. J Izzy Terry
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Izzy in red below: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 7:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? Dave Hansen wrote: Terry Clifton wrote: Just a couple of quick thoughts off the top of my head before it quits producing thoughts for the day. 1. Buying a dream for two bucks is a bargain, DAVEH: And cheaper than buying a politician! not a waste. DAVEH: If one could limit the number of their dreams, you would be correct, Terry. The problem is that the folks who least can afford it become addicted and end up becoming enslaved to their dreams to the point they neglect reality..and their jobs, family and God. It ain't just the po' fokes Dave. Bill Bennett was a big wheel republican/Christian that got into gambling on a scale that cost him his credibility and his money. I contend that it is a problem with self far more than with financial standing in the community. Jesus command is to deny self and follow Him, but we are self absorbed self seeking, self willed, self made, self centered, selfish, self reliant, and on and on. Just about everything except what Paul advises, self control. Terry Terry, why do I always agree with you so much? (You should worry?) But on that topic: Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit, not a fruit of the Will. We must all be plugged into the Holy Spirit to receive it, just as a tree cant produce fruit w/o having deep roots. In the natural we all have self-control in some areas, and not in others. In the Spirit we can walk in self-control in every circumstanceeven those that tempt our flesh. The Spirit is the opposite of the Flesh. Abiding in the Spirit is the opposite of walking in our Feelings/Emotions/Lusts/Desires/etc. Just some thoughtsIzzy
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Izzy in red below: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 6:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? ShieldsFamily wrote: I believe the temple priests drew lots to see which one of them would enter the Holy of Holies once/year. I think that gambling isnt a problem if you are losing money you can easily afford to lose; ie: pocket money. On the other hand, it is sinful as it is a waste. You have gotten nothing for what you spent, except a few moments/days of hope that you might win. Then you get the bad newsit wasnt YOUR lottery ticket that won. Again. However, if you had invested each dollar you spent on each lottery ticket for several years, well, maybe you could have bought a rabbit! Izzy PS If you DO win, remember your old friends on TT! PPS How many of you have ever known anyone who won a state lottery? (Ive known two.) Just a couple of quick thoughts off the top of my head before it quits producing thoughts for the day. 1. Buying a dream for two bucks is a bargain, not a waste. I agree. Youve heard the story about the man who kept praying to win the lottery without any success? Finally God spoke to him and said, Buy a ticket, stupid! Every now and then I buy a ticket just in case God was wanting me to winso far He has resisted the urge. 2. Shopping for clothing at some designer store instead of a Goodwill store is a waste. One will keep you from running around naked as well as the other, and do it a lot cheaper. ( I am not criticizing your shopping habits. I do not know where you shop.) It all depends upon whether you are a retired guy or a woman who would rather buy a nice outfit now and then than win the lottery. J 3. Not winning the lotto is not bad news. If I won, I would have to give up my carefree life and take on great responsibility. So true!!! Id like to read some stories about all the unfortunates who have won and it ruined their lives. Then I could console myself. 4. Careful study and years of experience have proven that my chances of winning the lottery are about the same whether I play or not. See #1 above: if you dont buy one there is ZERO chance. If you do buy there is one chance in about a billion. Somewhat better odds. 5. If I win, and you happen to be living in a cardboard box and eating from the refuse in a dump just outside Manila, you will be the first one I share with. How about a brick box in St. Louis? J If I ever win Im going to buy you the fanciest rabbit hutches I can find! Ive been making mental notes of all the places Id like to support. Maybe today Ill start writing them down. Its good to have concrete dreams. Then Ill be ready. (Oh, Id better get a new ticket when I go to the grocery store this week!!!) You may all email me your wish lists so I can add them to the list. J Izzy Terry BTW, Id rather see Terry win the lottery than anyone!!! Lord, I pray you give Terry the perfect winning ticket this very week, so he can bless the people you have put on his heart, as well as his own family. GOD BLESS TERRY!!! In Jesus name, amen. (Let us know when to celebrate, Terry!)
RE: [TruthTalk] from O'Reilley to you
Heres a clip from a testimony by the author (I believe) of Betrayed. My oldest son emailed it today: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/neighborhoods/stories.nsf/news/story/2D0921B03B24DD7686256F11006A2071?OpenDocumentHeadline=Speaker+shares+journey+of+faithtetl=1 Speaker shares journey of faith Steve Pokin Of the Suburban Journals updated: 09/16/2004 02:32 PM ST. CHARLES The greatest anti-Semitism would be to withhold the story of Jesus Christ from Jews, said Stan Telchin, featured speaker at Tuesday morning's 10th Annual Businessmen's Prayer Breakfast of St. Charles County. Telchin, who is Jewish, shared his faith journey with 679 men and women at The Columns Banquet and Conference Center in St. Charles, as well as those listening to a live radio broadcast. His talk, laced with humor, coincided with his 80th birthday and was given one day before the Jewish holy day of Rosh Hashana, which marks the Jewish new year. Telchin is a Messianic Jew, a person Jewish by birth who believes Jesus Christ is the Messiah prophesied in Jewish Scripture. Telchin grew up in Brooklyn, the youngest of six children of Orthodox parents who left Russia to escape persecution and anti-Semitism. Telchin said Wednesday that his Stan Telchin Ministries, which spreads his view of Jesus as Messiah through talks and the sale of books and tapes, is not intended to denigrate Judaism and, in his view, doesn't. I am absolutely for Biblical Judaism, Telchin said. Rabbinical Judaism is not the same thing as Biblical Judaism. Rabbi Mordecai Miller, of Richmond Heights, said that Telchin certainly is free to investigate his religious beliefs and become a Jewish Christian. But Miller said he is troubled by the public way in which Telchin has proclaimed that change and the media attention he has gathered. It is a sense of one religion being a true religion, Miller said. He has made a choice. But it is very complicated. It involves emotions. And you are in fact negating something in favor of something else. That makes it a difficult thing when you set it up in public that way. Telchin said it was 30 years ago that he went on a mission to convince his daughter Judy, then a student at Boston College, that Jesus Christ was not the Messiah. Judy had recently come to that conclusion to the great dismay of her parents. How could a kid of ours betray us this way? Telchin asked. How could she join the enemy? His daughter encouraged him to read the Bible and draw his own conclusions. Telchin embarked on a focused study of the Hebrew Scriptures, what Christians call the Old Testament, as well as the New Testament, and other written sources. He also talked to rabbis. Telchin said he was cocksure he could prove his daughter wrong and bring her back into the fold. Jews cannot believe in Jesus, he said. You can't go north and south at the same time. Instead, he eventually concluded, among other things, that the passages in the Hebrew Scripture that in his view point to Jesus as Messiah typically are not read or focused on in Judaic worship and teaching. Why didn't they ever tell us that on our side of the Bible that it says there was going to be a new covenant? he asked. We Jews do not read our Bible. We read our prayer book. We are called the 'People of the Book,' but somebody took our book away. Growing up, Telchin said, he had ample reason to distrust Christians and Christianity. In kindergarten he was called a Christ killer, he said, and when he was 9 a woman ordered, Get out of my way you dirty little Kike! Telchin said his mother explained the world this way: There was them, the goyim, or Christians, and there was us, the Jews. She told him that Christians hated Jews and to stay away from them. That's why, he said, when he sat down to read the New Testament he expected a book of hate. Where else could all that hatred come from? he asked. He approached his task starting with the book of Matthew with the notion that it wouldn't take long to debunk the idea of Jesus as Messiah. I lit a cigarette and had some Jack Daniels so it wouldn't be a waste of time, he said. But I didn't find a book of hate. It was written by a Jewish guy for Jewish people. Telchin said that by the time his review brought him to the writings of the Apostle Paul, formerly Saul, who persecuted Christians, Telchin said he was rooting for Saul. I was thinking, 'Saul is going to get those Christians. Go baby! Go get 'em!' But Telchin said it was both revelation and irony to him that the message of Christ initially was viewed as something for Jews only, not Gentiles. My entire worldview was based on the fact that I am Jewish and Jesus is not for us Jews, he said. Two thousands years ago he was for 'us' and not for 'them.' And now he's for 'them' and not for 'us.' Telchin said that his conviction that Jesus is the Messiah does not
[TruthTalk] FW: The Bike
-Original Message- From: Bob Hillard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 8:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FW: The Bike Little Leroy came into the kitchen where his mother was making dinner. His birthday was coming up and he thought this was a good time to tell his mother what he wanted. Mom, I want a bike for my birthday. Little Leroy was a bit of a troublemaker. He had gotten into trouble at school and at home. Leroy's mother asked him if he thought he deserved to get a bike for his birthday. Little Leroy, of course, thought he did. Leroy's mother, being a Christian woman, wanted Leroy to reflect on his behavior over the last year. Go to your room, Leroy, and think about how you have behaved this year. Then write a letter to God and tell him why you deserve a bike for your birthday. Little Leroy stomped up the steps to his room and sat down to write God a letter. Letter 1: Dear God, I have been a very good boy this year and I would like a bike for my birthday. I want a red one. Your friend, Leroy Leroy knew that wasn't true. He had not been a very good boy this year so he tore up the letter and started over. Letter 2: Dear God, I have been an OK boy this year. I still would really like a bike for my birthday. Leroy Leroy knew he could not send this letter to God either. So he wrote a third letter. Letter 3: God, I know I haven't been a good boy this year. I am very sorry. I will be a good boy if you just send me a bike for my birthday. Please! Thank you, Leroy Leroy knew, even if it was true, this letter was not going to get him a bike. By now Leroy was very upset. He went downstairs and told his mom that he wanted to go to church. Leroy's mother thought her plan had worked as Leroy looked very sad. Just be home in time for dinner, Leroy's mother told him. Leroy walked down the street to the church on the corner. He went in to the church and up to the altar. He looked around to see if anyone was there. Leroy bent down and picked up a statue of the Virgin Mary. He slipped it under his shirt and ran out of the church, down the street, into the house, and up to his room and sat down with a piece of paper and a pen. Leroy began to write his letter to God. Letter 4 God, I'VE GOT YOUR MAMA. IF YOU WANT TO SEE HER AGAIN, SEND THE BIKE. Signed, YOU KNOW WHO -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] Bush, the Bible, and Ruling a Nation
I found the following article to be very interesting. The author attempts to understand the disconnect between Jesus the Peacemaker and Jesus the Bringer about of Armageddon. Then he attempts to show how Bush works out the same tension. Highly interesting and I would like to hear any comments you may have. Note that I am not endorsing the website, author, or even the piece of work other than that I think you will find it worthwhile reading. http://www.killingthebuddha.com/damn_nation/gospel_dubya.htm Jonathan This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Thank you for your cooperation in connection with the above. Ce courriel ainsi que tous les documents sy rattachant contiennent de linformation confidentielle et privilgie. Si vous ntes pas le destinataire vis, s.v.p. en informer immdiatement son expditeur par retour de courriel, effacer le message et dtruire toute copie (lectronique ou autre). Toute diffusion ou utilisation de cette information par une personne autre que le destinataire vis est interdite et peut tre illgale. Merci de votre coopration relativement au message susmentionn. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm
Exactly Terry - couldn't have said it better. Glad to hear that you and Vee were safe through the storm. jt On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 22:31:14 -0400 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Slade Henson wrote: My point is the difference between the "could" [the inability]and the "would" [the unwillingness].=I don't think that Judy or any other true believer would question God's ability. He is omnipotent. Still ,the Bible says He could not. I take this to mean not that He was impotent, but that He has set boundaries that He will not cross ( rules that even He will not break).Evidently, one of those rules required an attitude on the part of those there, that those there refused to adopt. ( similar to seeking grace without humility or salvation without repentance.)God is unwilling to lower the bar, therefore He is unable to act as He would act if His standards were met.That make sense?Terry
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
I was speaking in regards to the concept of "leaving it to chance" (so to speak), not an attempt to get a lot for little effort. Winning a door prize, drawing straws, casting lots, peering under bottle caps for a free Cokeand the like all fit in the "games of chance" category with gambling. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Terry CliftonSent: Monday, 20 September, 2004 22.18To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?Slade Henson wrote: How about casting lots?==If I remember correctly, the priests at times cast lots to determine God's will. That was not gambling.The soldiers who crucified Jesus also cast lots for His garments. Since one of the garments was very well made and of some value, they would not want to divide it among themselves and end up with only rags, so they cast lots to determine who would own it. I have heard many people say that they gambled at the foot of the cross, but I do not see it that way. Like entering a drawing or hoping to win a door prize, they had nothing to lose, just something to gain. The winner had the garment. The others still had everything they had before. Similar to drawing straws.Waddayathink?Terry
RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
I believe the temple priests drew lots to see which one of them would enter the Holy of Holies once/year. Sorry. ONLY the High Priest was able to do that job. -- slade -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of ShieldsFamilySent: Monday, 20 September, 2004 23.48To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Judgment? I believe the temple priests drew lots to see which one of them would enter the Holy of Holies once/year. I think that gambling isnt a problem if you are losing money you can easily afford to lose; ie: pocket money. On the other hand, it is sinful as it is a waste. You have gotten nothing for what you spent, except a few moments/days of hope that you might win. Then you get the bad newsit wasnt YOUR lottery ticket that won. Again. However, if you had invested each dollar you spent on each lottery ticket for several years, well, maybe you could have bought a rabbit! Izzy PS If you DO win, remember your old friends on TT! PPS How many of you have ever known anyone who won a state lottery? (Ive known two.) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry CliftonSent: Monday, September 20, 2004 8:18 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? Slade Henson wrote: How about casting lots? ==If I remember correctly, the priests at times cast lots to determine God's will. That was not gambling.The soldiers who crucified Jesus also cast lots for His garments. Since one of the garments was very well made and of some value, they would not want to divide it among themselves and end up with only rags, so they cast lots to determine who would own it. I have heard many people say that they gambled at the foot of the cross, but I do not see it that way. Like entering a drawing or hoping to win a door prize, they had nothing to lose, just something to gain. The winner had the garment. The others still had everything they had before. Similar to drawing straws.Waddayathink?Terry
RE: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm
jt said: I do believe that Jesus is anequal member of the Godhead but during His earthly ministry He made Himself subject to the Father in every way. What would makeyou suggest that I don't believe in His deity Slade? Just wondering, Grace and Peace, judyt slade says; A comment you made a while ago that I misinterpreted. Sorry.
Re: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm
Michael D: I lend my voice here to Judy's and Terry's. As I have repeated often recently, God has made faith the Law by which He intervenes on man's behalf. That's why we are justified by faith. God can do anything He chooses, but our faith/response to Him regulates His response to us. Jesus did said, if we can believe all things shall be possible to us. Don't these things excite anyone like they do me? I long to see the supreme power of God in demonstration, and let the world see who the true God is. If we only can appreciate how God longs for us to understand this. I am trying to get a greater grasp on this, myself. The apostle Paul actually prayed for the Ephesians as recorded in CH 1, that the eyes of their understanding may be enlightened, that they may know the hope of God's calling... the exceeding greatness of His power towards us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power... That power is towards us, in every area. I long to be excellent in walking that way in my life. Jesus said, herein is My Father glorified, that you bear much fruit. God set things up this way that the excellency of the power might be of God and not of us. But it is all for us and by us. Does any one shout a resounding amen to that. This thing stirs me so much writing here that I feel like promoting a TT caucus of the willing for the sake of pursuing the extreme manifestation of God's power in our lives, circumstances, nations and globe!!! And I dare pray... May God make that happen many times over accross this globe. May His true children wake up to their heritage, and enter into the fullness of His kingdom, for this is His Kingdom...Judith H Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Exactly Terry - couldn't have said it better. Glad to hear that you and Vee were safe through the storm. jt On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 22:31:14 -0400 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Slade Henson wrote: My point is the difference between the "could" [the inability]and the "would" [the unwillingness].=I don't think that Judy or any other true believer would question God's ability. He is omnipotent. Still ,the Bible says He could not. I take this to mean not that He was impotent, but that He has set boundaries that He will not cross ( rules that even He will not break).Evidently, one of those rules required an attitude on the part of those there, that those there refused to adopt. ( similar to seeking grace without humility or salvation without repentance.)God is unwilling to lower the bar, therefore He is unable to act as He would act if His standards were met.That make sense?Terry ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
RE: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm
Slade Henson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jt said: Hi again Slade; I don't know about others but we do need to watch what comes out of our mouths as we have another Kingdom watching and waiting for a doorpoint of entry into our lives and God will not keep them out, this is our responsibility. Michael D: I have to concur with Judy here 110%.I have lived this for years... God dealt with meto such an extent, that there were times wherein exasperation,I had to ask God whether there is anything I can say at all... When I've share with believers things (even idiomsand slangs) that they need to watch, they've frown on it or dismissed it as nonsense, and even rebuked me. Sometimes it's very humbling. The fact is, as Judy stated above,that we are living in an enemy occupied territory, and his kingdom holds sway in the main. As a result, negatives/adversity have right of way, without much effort exerted. When folks utter negative things, it's easy for that to be enforced in their circumstances. For positive results, however, one has (as a rule) to have a greater opposing effort of positive inputs (faith) to overthrow the negative forces holding sway... Words are spirit. Jesus said His words were spirit and life. THat tells me that his words took on an additional characteristic to spirit, i.e. life. Proverbs tells us that death and lifeare in the power of the tongue. So as words can be spirit and life, they can also be spirit and death. Let me share an example... Many years ago when the Lord began to tighten the screws on me in this area, I saw a long-lost friend twice in two days. The second time, I declared to him...when it rains it pours... (idiom Slade?) Immediately, the Spirit of the Lord convicted me. I was very dismayed. I couldn't believe it (one of those times I pleaded ...can't I say anything?) I was to learn a couple serious lesson. The next morning I woke up at 4:30 as was usual. Within 30 seconds, rain started to pound upon the rooftop like I had never heard in my life (I mean that). Immediately I got apprehensive. Again, living in a low-lying area I have to be alert. I was wondering what was going on when I remembered what I mouthed the evening before. I did'nt know what to do. I immediately repented of my words, after which it occurred to me that God saw me then just as if I had never sinned. I jumped on the devil and bound him over the weather and loosed the angels to stop the rain. Within about 30 seconds it stopped. I went about my day and there was not a drop for the entire day afterwards. I learned alot that morning. Casual words are not necessarily casual in the spirit realm. One guy said that his foot was killing him, having knocked it. Figurative in his mind, of course, but he does not realize that he is realeasing a concept in the spirit world (killing him) that the enemy would like to sieze upon. Keep saying those things long enough, and the enemy will try to capitalize on them. I know this is long, but permit me to share one more testimony. Once I was helping a retired teacher tutor some students at her home (she was a neighbourhood friend). I was unemployed at the time. It was voluntary, but she started giving me a token payment for doing it. Now when folks would ask me what I was doing job wise, I would say I was not working, but was giving a 'li'l lessons (tutoring)' and getting a little 'change'. Nontheless every day I was declaring the abundance of God over my life. One day the Spirit of the Lord convicted me and I realized what I was saying. I changed my answer to folks to something like, ' I am giving lessons andI am getting paid for it'. Believe it or not, withinprecious little time, I started receiving from her in one week more than she was giving me for a month. In fact, I was getting 6x what I was getting at the end of the month all along, and I never asked for it, nor expected it. I didn't even know that she could afford it. I was amazed. My casual words had far more impact on my circumstances than I had any idea of. Thank God for the Holy Spirit who guides us into truth. I try to be very careful about the things I say now. I do not say when it rains... I now seek to determine how much it rains whenever it rains. Storms like Ivan I would never refer to as 'Ivan the terrible' regardless of how muchit is doing, and how much the media trumpets that. The enemy will have a field day with that. I seek to oppose that. As true children of God our lot is to determine outcomes not have them imposed upon us. Have I always prevailed, no, but I know where I want and need to be by God's grace... slade says: Hello to you too, Judy. I still am referring to idioms. If you are referring to idioms we are in irreconcilable disagreement.jt: I have no idea what "granite like faith" would look like but nowhere in scripture do I see God blessing unbelief and doubt. slade says: I am referring to "knowing without a shade of doubt." I see faith [or at least a strong form of it perhaps] as being a
RE: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm
Michael D: When I've share with believers things (even idiomsand slang) that they need to watch, they've frown on it or dismissed it as nonsense I am one who disagrees with you. Our Master and King used idioms when He was walking the Earth and Our Father in Heaven used idioms(even gross ones from our standards) in his dealings with the Prophets. An idiom is just that... a flowery _expression_. Nothing more. To advocate for more is to advocate error... in my (apparently singular opinion on this forum)... and I'm OK with that. I will say this, however, Michael... you are in good company because a good friend of mine (Don) believes identical to you on this point. -- slade
RE: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm
Michael D, Bless you for your zeal to share with us spiritual concepts which burn in your heart. May I agree but with certain qualifications? Yes, I have learned the power of the tongue, and that concept is true to a certain degree. I think, more important than the points that you have shared about releasing certain spiritual forces, is the fact that we should be consciously aware of every word we speak simply because our words should comply with Gods Word and His willapart from any effect upon us personally. Yes, we can give the Enemy power by talking ourselves and others into fear, failure, or other negatives. However, there is a fine line between that awareness and entering into New Age spookiness where we think our words carry magical powers for good or evil. If we are walking in faith and obedience to our Lord, no slip of the tongue will endanger us. Like you, I just carry an awareness of not falling into negative talking/thinking. As Slade points out, idioms are an important teaching tool to express certain conceptsmost clearly illustrated by Jesus. We do not need fear expressing idioms for that purpose. I think your point is that we should not quote common idioms to express fearful thoughts, because what is not of faith (ie: fear) is sin. I think the walk you are experiencing now concerning your words is good. But as you continue in your walk with the Lord and this is so ingrained in you that it is no longer forefront in your mind, you will go on to learn that there are other things that affect our walk with Him that are even more important than our words. One of those things is our walk of holy, sinless, selfless living. We ought not neglect one for the other. Im sure you dont. God bless you, dear Brother, and may He prosper you in body, soul, and spirit, as well as in your finances and callings. Is there any way we can pray for you? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of michael douglas Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 5:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm Slade Henson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jt said: Hi again Slade; I don't know about others but we do need to watch what comes out of our mouths as we have another Kingdom watching and waiting for a doorpoint of entry into our lives and God will not keep them out, this is our responsibility. Michael D: I have to concur with Judy here 110%.I have lived this for years... God dealt with meto such an extent, that there were times wherein exasperation,I had to ask God whether there is anything I can say at all... When I've share with believers things (even idiomsand slangs) that they need to watch, they've frown on it or dismissed it as nonsense, and even rebuked me. Sometimes it's very humbling. The fact is, as Judy stated above,that we are living in an enemy occupied territory, and his kingdom holds sway in the main. As a result, negatives/adversity have right of way, without much effort exerted. When folks utter negative things, it's easy for that to be enforced in their circumstances. For positive results, however, one has (as a rule) to have a greater opposing effort of positive inputs (faith) to overthrow the negative forces holding sway... Words are spirit. Jesus said His words were spirit and life. THat tells me that his words took on an additional characteristic to spirit, i.e. life. Proverbs tells us that death and lifeare in the power of the tongue. So as words can be spirit and life, they can also be spirit and death. Let me share an example... Many years ago when the Lord began to tighten the screws on me in this area, I saw a long-lost friend twice in two days. The second time, I declared to him...when it rains it pours... (idiom Slade?) Immediately, the Spirit of the Lord convicted me. I was very dismayed. I couldn't believe it (one of those times I pleaded ...can't I say anything?) I was to learn a couple serious lesson. The next morning I woke up at 4:30 as was usual. Within 30 seconds, rain started to pound upon the rooftop like I had never heard in my life (I mean that). Immediately I got apprehensive. Again, living in a low-lying area I have to be alert. I was wondering what was going on when I remembered what I mouthed the evening before. I did'nt know what to do. I immediately repented of my words, after which it occurred to me that God saw me then just as if I had never sinned. I jumped on the devil and bound him over the weather and loosed the angels to stop the rain. Within about 30 seconds it stopped. I went about my day and there was not a drop for the entire day afterwards. I learned alot that morning. Casual words are not necessarily casual in the spirit realm. One guy said that his foot was killing him, having knocked it. Figurative in his mind, of course, but he does not realize that he is realeasing a concept in the spirit world (killing him) that the enemy would like to sieze upon. Keep saying those
Re: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm
michael douglas wrote: Michael D: I lend my voice here to Judy's and Terry's. As I have repeated often recently, God has made faith the Law by which He intervenes on man's behalf. That's why we are justified by faith. God can do anything He chooses, but our faith/response to Him regulates His response to us. Jesus did said, if we can believe all things shall be possible to us. Don't these things excite anyone like they do me? I long to see the supreme power of God in demonstration, and let the world see who the true God is. If we only can appreciate how God longs for us to understand this. I am trying to get a greater grasp on this, myself. The apostle Paul actually prayed for the Ephesians as recorded in CH 1, that the eyes of their understanding may be enlightened, that they may know the hope of God's calling... the exceeding greatness of His power towards us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power... That power is towards us, in every area. I long to be excellent in walking that way in my life. Jesus said, herein is My Father glorified, that you bear much fruit. God set things up this way that the excellency of the power might be of God and not of us. But it is all for us and by us. Does any one shout a resounding amen to that. This thing stirs me so much writing here that I feel like promoting a TT caucus of the willing for the sake of pursuing the extreme manifestation of God's power in our lives, circumstances, nations and globe!!! And I dare pray... May God make that happen many times over accross this globe. May His true children wake up to their heritage, and enter into the fullness of His kingdom, for this is His Kingdom... Good evening Michael. To answer your question on a personal note, not speaking for the group, but for myself, I can say that these things do not excite me like they do you. I kinda wish they did. I haven't been real excited about anything in a long time. If it were proper for a Christian to envy, I would envy you for your ability to get excited about these things. The fact is however, that God did not make me like you, or you like me. First Corinthians, chapter twelve pretty much spells this out. You get all excited by what God says here, while I simply accept it as truth. That should not be too surprising. The body of Christ can not be all big toes or left ears, or any other single part. You need a whole bunch of different parts doing different things to have a complete body. The ear cannot do the job of the kidney and you cannot drink coffee through your navel. The Lord made us different so that we could do what He has designed us to do. That does not make one of us more saved or more spiritual than the other, just different. Blessings, Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm
In a message dated 9/21/2004 2:55:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michael D: I lend my voice here to Judy's and Terry's. As I have repeated often recently, God has made faith the Law by which He intervenes on man's behalf. That's why we are justified by faith. God can do anything He chooses, but our faith/response to Him regulates His response to us. Jesus did said, if we can believe all things shall be possible to us. Don't these things excite anyone like they do me? Michael - trust me, you are by no means alone in your understanding that faith is a part of the now covenant prophesied in Jere 31:31-34. John
Re: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm
In a message dated 9/21/2004 5:28:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: To advocate for more is to advocate error... in my (apparently singular opinion on this forum)... Silence is not necessarily descent. John
RE: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm
Nor dissent? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 9:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Eye of the Storm In a message dated 9/21/2004 5:28:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: To advocate for more is to advocate error... in my (apparently singular opinion on this forum)... Silence is not necessarily descent. John
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
ShieldsFamily wrote: Very funny, Dave. Actually the two people I have known were (1) a woman who was in a quilting guild I used to belong to whose husband had won years ago and were living a nice normal life in a lovely home, and (2) a very ugly young man who put a bunch of numbers in a brown bag and shook it up to select his winning lottery number. Im sure he had no lack of beautiful women chasing him after that. He was the brother of an (equally ugly) man who worked behind the desk at the post office. They were both balloon team helpers back when I owned a hot air balloon, DAVEH: Really!?!?!?! Fascinating, Izzy! I didn't know you had those kind of hobbies. Or.did you do it as a business? and after he won there was one man who wished he hadnt chased him off from trying to date his daughter! DAVEH: Your dad??? ;-) I thought it was cosmic justice. J Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment? DAVEH: I suppose the best place to meet such people in casinos, eh! I haven't yet met any big winners. I guess I don't spend as much time on those river boats as you do, Iz. ;-) ShieldsFamily wrote: PPS How many of you have ever known anyone who won a state lottery? (Ive known two.) -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judgment?
Terry Clifton wrote: Dave Hansen wrote: Terry Clifton wrote: Just a couple of quick thoughts off the top of my head before it quits producing thoughts for the day. 1. Buying a dream for two bucks is a bargain, DAVEH: And cheaper than buying a politician! not a waste. DAVEH: If one could limit the number of their dreams, you would be correct, Terry. The problem is that the folks who least can afford it become addicted and end up becoming enslaved to their dreams to the point they neglect reality..and their jobs, family and God. It ain't just the po' fokes Dave. DAVEH: I agree, Terry. However, I think the poor folks pay a high price. Hm.I could be wrong about that though.. Bill Bennett was a big wheel republican/Christian that got into gambling on a scale that cost him his credibility and his money. I contend that it is a problem with self far more than with financial standing in the community. Jesus command is to deny self and follow Him, but we are self absorbed self seeking, self willed, self made, self centered, selfish, self reliant, and on and on. Just about everything except what Paul advises, self control. DAVEH: Well said, Terry. Terry -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
