date:20050514

Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Judy Taylor




Jonathan does not follow God's Word Caroline, he is a 
follower of "Orthodoxy" which during the days of Christ's
earthly ministry would have been the Scribes  
Pharisees - or as Jesus put it, the blind leading the blind. Now 
back
then Jesus told his disciplesto "let them be" but 
Athanasuis and his cronies in the 4th Century believedthey had found a 
superior way to deal with those they labelled hereticks such asArius. So 
their peculiardoctrine and that ofChurch 
councils that followed became "Orthodoxy" - which BTW has nothing 
whateverto do with "new wineskins" Jesus 

baptises with the Holy Spirit and all error has at it's 
root the other spirit. jt

On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:49:17 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Jonathan does not disagree with God's word and he 
  is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, new wine is 
  poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my pastor said that I 
  can't change another person's beliefs without giving them something else to 
  believe in. I will add that unless God changed a person, madehim 
  intonew wineskin, new beliefswill causehim to burst. It is 
  self preservation to reject new wine until that transformation happens. 
  
  
  I'm referring to us all- by whatever label 
  that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, anti-whatever, liberal, 
  fundy. godly, godless
  
  By the way,this is the label that we 
  (everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ followers.
  
  Love,
  
  Caroline
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44 
PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: 
[Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would have a 
understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject.

Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's word 
of course it is a incorrect reading?
Who made you chief editor of God's word?
Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as his 
judgement of your rebellious spirit.Lance Muir 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  

  

  Izzy, have you considered that your reading 
  of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct 
  reading? Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ 
  differently than you? Consider that Raymond may be correctly 
  assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then 
  approaching the passage in Exodus. The eyeglasses one wears always 
  colour our perceptions. Our view of God colours how we read 
  Scripture. If we view God asOne who hardens hearts we will 
  then look at this text as justifying what we already believe. If we 
  view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will 
  delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the textalso says that 
  Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching it with a 
  tentative surface meaning. We all become like the God we 
  adore. Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard, 
  vengeful and angry right here on TT.
  
  A new approach to people's posts on TT would 
  be beneficial. Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our 
  prooftexts perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief 
  would be in order. Would it have hurt to see that you may have 
  agreed with Raymond when he says that God softens hearts? Has God 
  ever softened yours? Could you have used that to continue (rather 
  than end) the dialogue? Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about 
  just one well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning 
  post?
  
  Jonathan
  Truthtalk Alumnis
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24
Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: 
[Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism


Raymond, Have 
you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it 
says the Lord hardened Pharaohs heart? 
Izzy





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BothomsSent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 
PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
[TruthTalk] baptism



David: Why would such be bad? Have 
you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart? Don't you 
think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees 
and Pharisees) of his day? Was that 
bad?



Raymond: I respectfully disagree. 
The Lord does not hardened

Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

2005-05-14 Thread Judy Taylor




I think the same could be said for every one of the OT 
Prophets, that is, the ones through whom we received the
scriptures. They were all street preachers and 
the reaction of Israel before the dispersion was the equivalent of
this Baptist fellow. Psych case huh? 
jt

On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:59:37 -0500 "Caroline Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  This was posted on the discussion board of 
  baptistboard.com by dh1948. 
  
  While visiting in Mobile recently, my wife and I were 
  downtown walking past the Bienville Square. Walking around in the square was a 
  street preacher. He was screaming...and I mean screaming...to the top of his 
  lungs as he sauntered around preaching. His message was one of hell fire and 
  brimstone...turn or burn. He sounded so angry.I had no problem with 
  his message, but his method caused me to ask my wife, "Do you think this is 
  really glorifying to God?" I question the method of standing on a street 
  corner or in a public square and screaming out a gospel sermon. I 
  thought, "If I was a lost person, how would I react to this man and his 
  message?" After all, I am the one he would be targeting, so just how would I 
  react? I have to say...with disgust. I would consider him to be a psych 
  case...a cultist of a sort. Before the castigation starts, I am not 
  questioning the man's motive nor his message...just his method. What 
  do you think?

Re: [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread Judy Taylor

Of course God in his foreknowledge knew what Pharoah
would do but he gave him (was it 8 opportunities to repent?)
and Pharoah himself made the choice every time to play
games. So he was responsibile for hardening his own heart.
First he hardened it and then God honored his
choice. jt

On Fri, 13 May 2005 15:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

Raymond: I respectfully disagree. The Lord does
not hardened hearts; He softens them.

God respectfully disagrees in the
HOLY BIBLE
EX 4
I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Ex 7:3,13-14; 7:22;
9:12;10:11,20,27;11:10;14:4,8,17; Jos 11:20; Is 63:7
You are confusing a hard heart with God
leading into sin which He would never do. The Character of God rules that out.
This is one of the differences between the Mormon "god" the True God of
the Bible. The "god" of Mormonism places men in situations where they must
choose sin1 or sin2.

Exodus 9:27-35 (27)And Pharaoh sent, and called for
Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the LORD is
righteous, and I and my people are wicked.
... (34) And when Pharaoh
saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet
more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. (35)And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let
the children of Israel go; as the LORD had spoken by
Moses.
God's mercy also restrains the evil in mens
heartsGenesis 20:6 "..Yea, I know that thou
didst this in the integrity of thy heart; For I also withheld thee from
sinning against Me: Therefore suffered I thee not to touch her."
Notice God "KNEW" the integrity IN his heart God
in mercy witheld him from sin!GOD TRIES
MENS HEARTS God hardens hearts in response to what is in that
heart. The God of the bible knows all things even can see in your heart. He
also knows the future and knew Pharoah would stiffen his neck. He tries mens
hearts and rewards them accordingly"I the Lord search
the heart, I try the reigns, even to give every man according to his ways, and
according to the fruit of his doing." Pharaoh recieved of
the Lord according to his own doing!Jeremiah
17:23 But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck
stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive
instruction.JUST REWARD Pharaoh
recieved his just rewardHebrews 2:1-3 "Therefore we
ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at
any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was
stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence
of reward;How shall we escape, if we neglect so great
salvation"GOD WROTE THE LAW IN ALL
HEARTSRomans 2:15 Which shew the work of the
law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness James
4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is
sin. Pharaoh went against God his conscience. If you
continue in sin ignore your conscience you will end up with a
"conscience seared with a hot iron" 1 Timothy
4:2GOD IS SOVEREIGNPharaoh
thought that he determined the fate of God's people. God simply determined to
show his power to fulfill His purpose: Exodus 7 "But
Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and
bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land
of Egypt by great judgments.""And I will harden
Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of
Egypt."PHARAOH SINNEDIn spite of
multiple opportunities the continual witness of God's men, Pharoah
hardened his own

[TruthTalk] Fruit from the Seed and Root of Orthodoxy FYI

2005-05-14 Thread Judy Taylor

If you've been keeping abreast of world news, you know
that the new pope is putting the late Pope John Paul on the fast-laneof
"sainthood." It makes no difference, of
course,what God's sentiments are in this paganistic ritual, for
if the Roman Catholic hierarchy decrees that someone be elected a saint,
that's itregardless. But this is the history of Roman
Catholicism.

According to
Catholic doctrine,Pope John Paulcannotbe elected a
"saint" unless it can be substantiated that he performed at
least three "miracles." Now watch closely the
Vatican over the next few months and youwill see a number of Catholics
coming forth and claiming that Pope John Paul "healed"
them. But you will not be seeinglegitimate miracles. Instead,
you will be viewing counterfeit miracles.

How do I know
this? The great apostle Paul, in prophesying about Roman Catholicism,
declared, "The coming of the lawless one [Roman Catholicism] will
be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit
miracles, signs, and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those
who are perishing" (2 Thess.
2:9-10).

Popes claim to be
apostles. To be an authentic apostle, he must demonstrate his
apostleship by performing signs, wonders, and miracles."The
things that mark an apostlesigns, wonders, and miracleswere done
among you with great perseverance" (Paul, 2 Cor.
12:12).

So
unless a pope is able toeffect supernatural signs, wonders, and miracles,
he cannot be an apostle. Pope John Paul might have performed counterfeit
miracles, but the Vatican will try hard tomanufacture and invent and
devisebona-fide miracles. Their efforts will be
futile.

And what about
this "saint" question? Again, we see the Roman Hierarchy
devising laws that God did not author, for if a believer is not a saint before
death, he will not be a saint after death.

The term
"saint" in the scriptures does not carry the idea of
perfection, impeccability, flawless excellence, or place one in a spiritual
celebrity status. The core definition of "saint" refers
to one who has been sanctified or set apart to serve the God
of creation.

Every living
believer is a saint. And not once did any apostle write a
letter to dead saints! Their letters were written to living
saints. Allow me to demonstrate.

"To the congregation of God in Corinth, to thosesanctified [or made to be saints] in Christ
Jesus..." (1 Cor.
1:2). "To the
congregation of God in Corinth, together with all the saints throughout
Achaia" (2 Cor.
1:1).
"To the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ
Jesus" (Eph.
1:1).
"To all the saints in Christ Jesus at Philippi"
(Phil. 1:1).

All of these
statements were addressed to living saints. To show you how
deceptive the Vatican and her clergy are, I have before me The Catholic
Living Bible. The term "saints" in all of the above
passages has been deleted. Why? Because to include them would be a
direct contradiction of Catholic doctrine, which says that one cannot be a saint
until he passes on.

In closing this
weekend edition, I say to my Catholic friends and
readers: Place your allegiance in and give your loyalty
to Jesus only. You don't need religion. You need a
relationship. A good, strong relationship with the Man called
Jesus will save you in the end.

Your pope cannot save you, nor forgive you. Your
church cannot deliver you to paradise. No church can accomplish that
feat. But Jesus can! Be neither Catholic nor Protestant. Be a
Christian only, but not the only Christian. Only then will you experience
freedom in Jesus. Trust me, I know"been there, done
that."

(written by Buff Scott
Jr)

Re: [TruthTalk] To Sir With Love

2005-05-14 Thread Judy Taylor





I saw the movie years and years ago Blaine; the good 
looking Sidney Poitierplayed the black man with
the big heart... but like all else that eminates 
fromHollywood this too is fantasy. Jesus went to the cross to
enable us to deal with reality as well as to invite us 
to experience a supernatural love that far exceeds the
imaginations of Hollywood screen writers. 


As for "Noblesse Oblige" this too is delusion; God's 
Word - the Spirit of the great equalizer who spoke 

through the prophetssays:

"Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high 
degree are a lie; to be laid in the balance, they are 
altogether lighter than vanity." (Psalm 
62:9)



On Thu, 12 May 2005 01:46:56 GMT "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
 Blaine: Hey has anyone read the Book, To Sir, With Love? 
Its  almost out of print, maybe it is anyway, but I found it in the 
 Syracuse, Utah public library--it was very good, left me with a 
 "Noblesse Oblige" sort of feeling. Its about a Black man who was 
 having a hard time finding a job using his training as an engineer, 
 and ended up teaching school in a London slum school. He did a 
 great job, and eventually won the hearts of his White-trash  
students, teaching them magnanimity towards other races, rather than  
their traditional bigotry. Inspiring book.

RE: [TruthTalk] Fox news

2005-05-14 Thread ShieldsFamily









Shucks. I hope you will share it
when you receive the CD. Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 7:39 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fox news







The changed the date  already ran it. I have a
copy coming on cd.





The ADF said it has generated additional interest in
the case.

ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Kevin, I didnt see your interview on
Fox last night. Was it pre-empted by the landslide in NY, or did I miss
it? Izzy



Have fun online with music videos,
cool games, IM  more. Check
it out!









Do you Yahoo!?
Make
Yahoo! your home page

RE: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?

2005-05-14 Thread ShieldsFamily











Wow. That is shocking and
amazing. Do the Mormons here believe that? If so, things are worse than I thought! Izzy











Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkieWhat Mormons Think of Christ, 1982, p. 19.

Christians
speak often of the blood of Christ and its
cleansing power.; Much that is believed and taught on this subject, however is
such utter nonsense and so palpably
false that to believe it is to lose one's salvation.

RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

2005-05-14 Thread ShieldsFamily









What Kevin says is not offensive to me in
the least. I think when he preaches against sin it is only offensive
to sinners. The same word of God either hardens or softens hearts. When I
hear someone preach against sin like Kevin does it causes me to want to examine
my own life to be sure Im not also in need of repentance for some sin. I
doubt that Kevin curses at anyone, or molests anyone. Maybe he can verify that
for us. If you hate the ACLU I can agree with that! If Skin Heads, Nazis,
etc. are cursing at me thats a whole different matterthey are of
satan, and so is cursing and molesting. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:32 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
baptism







Someone I don't know, trust, believe or even like shouting
at me stuff that is offensive to my ears is disturbing my right to peace and
quiet and my right to be unmolested and intimidated when I enter my place
of worship.





What if it wasn't a Street Preacher on the video but Skin
Heads, NeoNazisor Satanists cursing you while you're trying to get into a
meeting? Is there any law in America
that you could use to stop them or are they totally protected by the ACLU too?











Love,











Caroline







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Friday, May 13,
2005 4:25 PM





Subject: RE: [Bulk]
[TruthTalk] baptism











Caroline,
do you believe that public preaching encroaches on your freedom? Izzy



Caroline Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 



We took a leaf from your founding fathers: Your freedom ends when it
encroaches mine.

RE: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching

2005-05-14 Thread ShieldsFamily









Caroline, American Arthur Blessit I
believe was the originator of carrying a cross to evangelize. Such street
preaching described below is not uncommon in America. Each preacher must do
whatever God calls him to doand some are called to preach to hardened sinners
more than others. Their approach may vary accordingly. They are all Gods
servants, and I am not willing to place myself in judgment over them. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Wong
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 10:08
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] Street
Preaching







Street Preaching Canadian style (you guessed it! kinder and
gentler!)











from blog site: http://spacing.ca/work-savingsouls.htm











WORK: street preachers
Saving
our souls 

by Sean Waisglass 
photo by Sean
Waisglass 

: : : : : : :

As
a lifelong atheist, it came as quite a shock when I witnessed what appeared to
be the Resurrection of Christ a few years back.

Yet
there he was, clad in a white robe, sporting his crown of thorns (complete with
trickle of blood), and dragging a wooden cross up Yonge Street near Dundas. Onlookers and passers-by gawked as
Jesus wordlessly pulled his holy burden northbound.

It
turned out that he was in fact an affable guy named David Peever who worked
with a Christian theatre group, and regularly walked Yonge Street to promote his faith. Ideal
for its heavy pedestrian traffic flow due to the subway line and retail density,
the southern section of Yonge has long been the venue of choice for those
looking to spread their holy word in Hogtown.

Peever
is part of a lineage of street evangelists working the tail end of The Longest
Street In the World that stretches back to seminal Toronto preacher John
Hallelujah Davis. Davis
founded the still-active Yonge
  Street Mission in
1896. After eight years at Yonge and Shuter, it moved to 381 Yonge Street (just south of Gerrard),
where it has since resided for a century. Renamed Evergreen in 1979, it now
serves as a drop-in for street youth.

The
Mission had
flamboyant beginnings, starting out as a bus dubbed the Gospel
Wagon that cruised the street distributing food and clothing to the
needy. Mike Fileys Toronto Album 2 has a photo taken circa 1920 showing
the bus parked in front of the Mission, its five
rows of seats filled with hymn singers while Davis is perched at a pulpit in a small
balcony-like box jutting out the side. One of the placards placed against the
bus reads Come and Get A Blessing.

The
spirit of the Gospel Wagon has endured  the Yonge and Dundas intersection has long-served as the
citys mecca for public evangelism. Souvenir vendors and sidewalk
drummers have shared the concrete in front of the Eaton Centre with a myriad of
religious messengers; Bible-toting fire-and-brimstone types, bow-tied Nation of
Islam members, Hare Krishnas, and freelance eccentrics, all
promoting their spiritual wares amongst the hustle and bustle of foot traffic
and street noise.

One
such pavement apostle is Richard Corbit, a 9-year vet with Potters House
Christian Centre, who send out a proselytizing posse to Yonge and Dundas a few times a
year. Corbit and his merry band of sidewalk saviours gather in a circle and
alternate between singing hymns and testifying. The group also
break out some new-school sermonizing techniques by way of rapping their
message to the masses. Corbit said the religious rappers would often
collaborate with the street drummers that used to be common fare at the Eaton
Centre corner of the intersection. That changed in the late 90s, when
construction making way for Dundas
  Square downsized the action. When it opened on the
southeast corner in 2002, the Squares ad-laden wall spaces and giant TVs
altered the dynamic of the intersection.

There
used to be drummers all the time. But theyre not there as much
anymore, said Corbit. Theres a lot of competition now that
wasnt there before. Big screens are attracting peoples attention.
Now sometimes they just walk by and dont even notice you.

Recalling
Sidewalk Jesus stumping his way up one of our prime commercial boulevards past
fashion outlets and hot dog stands, its hard not to dramatize the
symbolism. The writing was on the wall (literally): consumer culture was the
new saviour on the block. Cathode tube rays, neon signs, and billboards too big
to ignore were assuming the role of sermonizing to the congregation of the
streets.

These days, Yonge and Dundas is dominated by
the Squares ad-covered media tower. High atop this Tower of Babble, a giant flashing red electronics
company logo of an outlined face with one swirly eye omnipotently keeps watch
over passers-by, as if to infer: Weve always got one eye open.
Are you learning what were preaching? Beside it, an ad for an SUV
exhorts that it is for evolving lives. Can you get to heaven any
faster in a chariot with 4-wheel drive?

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