date:20050524




Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. For those wishing to 
put 'feet' to their faith, I'd recommend a documentary entitled 'The 
Corporation'. It may be rented from BB. It demonstrates that of which I 
speak.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 23, 2005 14:42
  Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  Last time I checked Lance Dallas Willard was not 
  sitting on the throne. Capitalism is by nature consumerist; 
  is
  Canada a capitalist nature by any chance? I 
  know Australia is and it is every bit as bad, maybe worse in some
  ways. You know the old saying "ppl who live in 
  glass houses?" Australia is not "religious" at all, in fact it 
  is
  basically secular as is your country from what I've 
  heard. jt
  
  On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:14:26 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
You, collectively, are being judged now for 
your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on 
this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an embodied gospel. God 
may well be using 'them' to judge you.

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  Would you rather have mid east cloak and dagger 
  along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you be 
  so sure that God is not involved with what is 
  happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is not the time 
  of Iraq's visitation? Through history God 
  has always used one nation to judge another. Yes, the US will be 
  judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not 
  Lance's. jt
  
  On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. Given 
GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise of 
'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he 
has set much of the middle east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons 
have his ear more than God. 

  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  FYI, Lance, 
  the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and 
  reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used 
  to bring America more under the rule 
  and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good thing. 
  God can use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. So dont 
  be so contemptuous. Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
  Muir
  
  Your last sentence is that 
  which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a kind of bondage 
  along with D  I. Anyone who believe that GWB is bringing in the 
  kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to 
  lunch.

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

Amen Judy! May God always have His angels keep
watch over you.

- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: May 23, 2005 14:49
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses
Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

I haven't seen one but an sure one kept me out of a
head on collision on my way to church
yesterday. I was a bit distracted as we have a
houseful of active and noisy children, was on
my own and fiddling with the cell phone connection on
our road which is country and most of
the time not a lot of traffic. I looked up and
was able to swerve at the very last minute. I am
sure I had supernatural help of the kind that was not
there when I hit the deer a few months
ago; that involved money, this would have been
devastating. Can't explain how I know but I
know angels were involved with keeping me safe.
jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 10:56:51 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes: Has anyone on TT actually seen an angel?
Izzy Kevin wrote: Just like on ressurection
morning he "vanished" from the Tomb talked to some and made a bee
line to heaven and back all while the Jerusalem Grille was still
serving breakfast! How far is it to heaven and back? How
fast was He travelling? Going to heaven and back in maybe
an hour, does that make him invisible? If you were
travelling with Him would He be invisible? It is possible
that the fastness of his travel might account for his
vanishing, but the language used in this passage suggests that it
also is possible that he simply became invisible and then left.
The language focuses upon his vanishing rather than his
leaving or coming. If it is possible that he did just
become invisible, then this would be an example of
someone who has a body yet is invisible. What do you think
about angels around us? Sometimes they become visible,
but don't you think of angels as being in a dimension which is
invisible to us? The Bible seems to speak of every person
having a guardian angel, yet we don't see angels as often as
we see people. Wouldn't invisibility be the
likely explanation for that? Don't you think angels have bodies?
Peace be with you. David Miller.
-- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt,
that you may know how you ought to answer every man."
(Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If
you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who
wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he
will be subscribed.-- "Let
your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If
you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he
will be subscribed.

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Where have all the non-fundies gone save (excepting)




David does indeed speak 'spiritually'. He is 
Platonic to the core. This is why he separates that which ought not be 
separated. 'To the core' might be overkill. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 23, 2005 14:59
  Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Where have 
  all the non-fundies gone save (excepting)
  
  
  You will never agree ... David sees and speaks 
  spiritually. You Lance, are political and the
  saying below is political to the core. 
  jt
  
  
  On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:58:42 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes: And you, David, have that completely wrong. It's the birds of 
  a  featherthingy. From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Lance wrote:   'Likeminded' being the operative word 
  here, Judy.   In your case (along with David  Izzy) it 
  means   'the measuring stick of my tradition. 
You have that partially right, Lance. Good for 
  you. Judy's  tradition is  the tradition of Christ 
  and the tradition of Christ's apostles.  What a  
  great tradition it is!   Peace be with you. 
   David Miller.

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin

I wonder if PA can be transmitted genetically?
She sounds like her Dad.

- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: May 23, 2005 15:03
Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is
sin

Of course he protects his daughter, what kind of an
uncaring father would he be if he didn't take up for her.
She is obviously not only a thinking person she is
also bold in the Lord for one so young - rather than
presumptuous and arrogant. There is a
difference. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 12:01:28 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:Yikes! We agree on this. It's only appropriate David, that you'd
rushtoprotect your naive daughter. She may well grow into a
thinkingperson andthereby be of help to 'pop'.
From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lance
wrote: Anyone who believe that GWB is bringing in the
kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to lunch.
For the record, I do not believe that George Bush is "bringing in
the kingdom" [of God?]. He has simply given us a
little relief from persecution, and he has given the Iraqi's a
great amount of relief from a brutal dictator who has
thought himself to be the reincarnation of
Nebuchadnezzar. I wonder if Sadaam Hussein believes that like
Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4, he will return again in a different
frame of mind. Peace be with
you. David Miller.
-- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with
salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every
man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an
email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who
wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he
will be subscribed. -- "Let your
speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If
you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he
will be subscribed.

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism




Kevin demonstrates the ability to 'google' (Lance). 
Actually, I'd vote for his wife over him. (GWB)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 23, 2005 16:15
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
  [TruthTalk] baptism
  
  Lance wrote:  ... Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to 
  me.
  Why is it that the lib's are always, so conceited in their opinion of 
  themselves?
  
  Quotes from lances friends:
  
  I despise him [President George W. Bush]. I despise his administration and 
  everything they stand forTo my mind the election was stolen by George Bush 
  and we have been suffering ever since under this man's leadershipThere has 
  to be a movement now to really oppose what he is proposing because it's 
  unconstitutional, it's immoral and basically illegalIt is an embarrassing 
  time to be an American. It really is. It's humiliating.  Actress Jessica 
  Lange at a film festival in Spain, September 25.
  "Free Enterprise really means rich people get richer. They have the 
  freedom to exploit and psychologically rape their fellow human beings in the 
  process . . . Capitalism is destroying the earth. "-- Helen Caldicott, Union 
  of Concerned Scientists 
  
  "To feed a starving child is to exacerbate the world population 
  problem"-- Lamont Cole 
  
  "I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important 
  part in balancing ecosystems." -- John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal 
  
  
  Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs." -- John 
  Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal 
  
  "The purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people" 
  -- Bill Clinton 1993 on MTV 
  
  "(W)hen Communist U.S.S.R. was a superpower, the world was better off. 
  The right-wing media is trying to marginalize the peace movement." -- Janeane 
  Garofalo 
  
  "The WTC was not just an architectural monstrosity, but also terrible for 
  people who didn't work there, for it said to all those people: 'If you can't 
  work up here, boy, you're out of it.' That's why I'm sure that if those towers 
  had been destroyed without loss of life, a lot of people would have cheered. 
  Everything wrong with America led to the point where the country built that 
  tower of Babel, which consequently had to be destroyed. And then came the next 
  shock. We had to realize that the people that did this were brilliant. It 
  showed that the ego we could hold up until September 10 was inadequate." -- 
  Norman Mailer 
  David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Lance 
wrote:  ... Christine sounds pretty brainwashed to me.Oh, please 
stop with the ad hominem remarks. At least she has a brain to wash and 
is found now to be pure.Every one of us indoctrinate each other. The 
question is, which doctrine do we submit ourselves unto? Are we washing 
our brains with the doctrine of Christ or with the liberal theology of 
demons?Ephesians 2:1-6(1) And you hath he quickened, who were 
dead in trespasses and sins;(2) Wherein IN TIME PAST YE WALKED ACCORDING 
TO THE COURSE OF THIS WORLD, according to the prince of the power of the 
air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:(3) 
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts 
of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and 
were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.(4) But God, 
who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,(5) Even 
when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by 
grace ye are saved;)(6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit 
together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:Peace be with 
you.David Miller. --"Let your speech be always 
with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer 
every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not 
want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
  __Do You 
  Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin




Mr. Rogers says (from the neighborhood in the sky) 
'hey kids, can we say seven trillion, nine hundred and thirty-seven billion?' 
Bankruptcy awaits.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 23, 2005 16:21
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: 
  [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin
  
  First you must have one.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  







Why would we be? We are not invading countries 
to build an empire.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 23, 2005 11:57
  Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
  RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin
  
  
  Im sure you and 
  Canada are not being judged for 
  anything at all. How lovely for you. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:14 
  AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: 
  [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  
  You, collectively, are being 
  judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see 
  Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an 
  embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge 
  you.
  

- Original Message - 


From: Judy 
Taylor 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Sent: May 
23, 2005 10:12

Subject: 
[Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
sin



Would you rather 
have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and 
insanity. Also how can you be

so sure that God is 
not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How are you so 
sure it is not the time

of 
Iraq's visitation? 
Through history God has always used one nation to judge another. 
Yes, the US will 
be

judged also but - 
IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. jt



On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  'If' is the operative 
  wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. Under 
  the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops near the 
  oil supply) he has set much of the middle east aflame.I'd say 
  that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 
  
  

From: 
ShieldsFamily 



FYI, Lance, 
the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and 
reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used 
to bring America more under the 
rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good 
thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. 
So dont be so contemptuous. Izzy





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
Muir

Your last sentence is 
that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a kind of 
bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that GWB is 
bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to 
lunch.

  
  
  
  
  
  
  Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Small Business - Try 
  our new Resources site!

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation




When you're right...Sad ain't 
it?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 23, 2005 22:14
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Fond 
  Farewells- Salvation
  
  
  
  In you statment below, you initiate 
  your "discussion" with falsehood -- the claim that I am confused 
  and you are not. Grade school combat tactics. Just 
  plain silly. Why did Bill leave -- and probably Caroline and 
  Debbie? They got of the tactic "win at all costs." You , 
  especially, have potential, what with your eduational backgroudn (PhD 
  and all). But you argue like a school kid. "Here's the 
  probelm, John -- I am better than you." "Aaahh, no 
  you're not ?" "YES I AM AM !!!' " No you're 
  not." "Yes I am too." 
  
  
  See the second grade tactic.? David 
  says "Oh, now I see the crux of the matter: I follow the Bible 
  andJohn doe not." Great response. Perhaps 
  intellectually challenging to some in your camp, but it is a response 
  that avoids the conflict, builds you up in your own eyes (and 
  Izzy's -- she will now say that I was defeat simply 
  because you said I was confused.)
  
  InP3, you argue that you are in 
  the apostles teaching and I am not. You do not 
  teachjustification apart from obedience to law. You do not 
  teach Christ as a substitute for in terms of faith and righteousness. 
  You do not believe the law to be a "burden" although Peter felt this 
  way. You think hell in somewhere near Compton.You do not 
  know the fdifference between the old sacrifices and the new. You 
  consider yourself an apostles on a par with Paul and Peter !!! You 
  tout the rationalism of your thinking and call it enlightenment. I could 
  go on - or would you prefer 
  discussing the issue?
  
  Dinner time. Look for Post II in 
  this series, coming to your house in the near 
  future.
  
  JD 
  

  
  
  
  What denominational association do you maintain and/orWhat 
  denominational association is the church you now attend? Your answer to these 
  questions has a lot to do with how I respond to this post. You 
  know my afflication. What is yours?
  
  JD
  
  -Original Message-From: David Miller 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 23 
  May 2005 11:27:07 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- 
  Salvation
  

  David Miller wrote:
 John 20:22-23
 (22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them,
 and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
 (23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto
 them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

John wrote:
 You are not included in this; neither am I.
 I see the apostles as having a very different relationship
 with the Christ than anyone else.

P 3This is the crux of our difference then:  doubt and unbelief concerning the 
reality of the kingdom of God.  I abide in the apostles' doctrine and 
believe that all that they were instructed in by Jesus the Christ applies to 
everyone who believes in Jesus Christ.  Jesus told the apostles:

Matthew 28:19-20
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of 
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: 
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Paul said:

Philippians 3:17
(17) Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as 
ye have us for an ensample.

Concerning the gift of the Holy Ghost that Jesus connected with the 
retaining or remitting of sins in John 20:22-23, Peter said:

Acts 2:38-39
(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in 
the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the 
gift of the Holy Ghost.
(39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE 
AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Do you speak in tongues, John?  Just how much of the Bible are you not 
included in?

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how 
you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend 
who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
he will be subscribed.

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation




I think David is off preaching to the choir. 
However, there does exist a small chorus group on TT.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 01:50
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Fond 
  Farewells- Salvation
  
  
  
  Part II in a series of II. This 
  being"part II," Kevin, means there was a post written prior to 
  this one -- we call it "Part I." 
  
  What David does in this response is clear; he manifests his lack 
  of concern for either myself or the actual discussion. This 
  comment "This is the crux of our difference then: doubt and unbelief 
  concerning the reality of the kingdom of God" is not an honest attempt at 
  dialogue for it was not written with me in 
  mind. Rather, it was written with David's audience in 
  mind. Smithson must be stopped -- his gospel 
  of "humanism" (apparently words with more than four letters have definitions 
  that often escape David's comprehension). He knows, full 
  well, that I do not agree with his statement (above.) Only 
  an idiot would think this statement would carry merit with me 
  -- and we all know that David is no idiot. So what is 
  left. David protecting his churchkind of like the Apostle 
  Peter or the Apostle Paul -- we have the 
  ApostleMiller. Correct me if I am wrong - 
  seriously. 
  
  The notion that David walks in the apostles doctrine to a degree 
  that I do not is both untrue and arrogant. His need for 
  repentance is clear. The "Great commission" was given toHis 
  apostles - the 12.Ditto for John 20:22-23 -- we know 
  this to be the case because the text is specific as to whom it is 
  He is talking to (syntax, David -- like it?). Anyway - 
  I share 
  the gospel message because 
  of what I have learned in the letter to the Romans. Chapter 
  one - the gospel is God 's power in saving man and, again in 
  chapter ten  how shall the hear without an 
  evangel. More than that -- we are all 
  given to the ministry of reconciliation. The "Great 
  Commission" per se has little to do with you and I. 

  
  Acts 2:38fftells us the promised spirit is for 
  all. The indwelling of the spirit is evidenced by any number of 
  gifted manifestations from love, joy, 
  peace, kindness, gentleness to prophecy, the speaking in tongues and even 
  hospitality.
  
  JD
  Pastor of the New Perichoretic Church of the First 
  Born
  California Branch
  Bs, Ma and , well . BS 
  again
  
  Please note: this new Christian Denom will have no 
  congregations in the area of Compton unless and until hell freezes over. 
  
  
  
  
  
  -Original Message-From: David Miller 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 23 
  May 2005 11:27:07 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- 
  Salvation
  

  David Miller wrote:
 John 20:22-23
 (22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them,
 and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
 (23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto
 them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

John wrote:
 You are not included in this; neither am I.
 I see the apostles as having a very different relationship
 with the Christ than anyone else.

This is the crux of our difference then:  doubt and unbelief concerning the 
reality of the kingdom of God.  I abide in the apostles' doctrine and 
believe that all that they were instructed in by Jesus the Christ applies to 
everyone who believes in Jesus Christ.  Jesus told the apostles:

Matthew 28:19-20
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of 
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: 
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Paul said:

Philippians 3:17
(17) Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as 
ye have us for an ensample.

Concerning the gift of the Holy Ghost that Jesus connected with the 
retaining or remitting of sins in John 20:22-23, Peter said:

Acts 2:38-39
(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in 
the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the 
gift of the Holy Ghost.
(39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE 
AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Do you speak in tongues, John?  Just how much of the Bible are you not 
included in?

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how 
you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend 
who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
he will be subscribed.

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin




Iz respects DW in the Lord as a "godly man" who walks 
in love and she may request his input but I've not seen her quoting him or 
sitting at his feet. What do corporations have to do with the KofG? 
They work on an entirely other principle. In fact corporations are based 
on the evolutionary principle with the survival of the fittest... 
jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:24:45 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. For those wishing to 
  put 'feet' to their faith, I'd recommend a documentary entitled 'The 
  Corporation'. It may be rented from BB. It demonstrates that of which I 
  speak.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Last time I checked Lance Dallas Willard was not 
sitting on the throne. Capitalism is by nature consumerist; 
is
Canada a capitalist nature by any chance? I 
know Australia is and it is every bit as bad, maybe worse in 
some
ways. You know the old saying "ppl who live 
in glass houses?" Australia is not "religious" at all, in fact it 
is
basically secular as is your country from what I've 
heard. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:14:26 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  You, collectively, are being judged now for 
  your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on 
  this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an embodied gospel. God 
  may well be using 'them' to judge you.
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

Would you rather have mid east cloak and dagger 
along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you be 
so sure that God is not involved with what is 
happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is not the time 
of Iraq's visitation? Through history 
God has always used one nation to judge another. Yes, the US will 
be judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not 
Lance's. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. Given 
  GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise of 
  'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) 
  he has set much of the middle east aflame.I'd say that the 
  neo-cons have his ear more than God. 
  
From: ShieldsFamily 


FYI, Lance, 
the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and 
reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used 
to bring America more under the 
rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good 
thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. 
So dont be so contemptuous. Izzy





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
Muir

Your last sentence is 
that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a kind of 
bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that GWB is 
bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to 
lunch.

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT




Thank you Izzy and Lance, I was certainly grateful and 
the thankful heartcontinues ... If there had been
an accident it would have been my fault because I was 
on the wrong side. What an example of God's 
mercy and faithfulness - and how encouraging. I 
forget about angels until something like this - jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:26:03 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Amen Judy! May God always have His angels keep 
  watch over you.
  
From: Judy Taylor 


I haven't seen one but an sure one kept me out of a 
head on collision on my way to church
yesterday. I was a bit distracted as we have 
a houseful of active and noisy children, was on
my own and fiddling with the cell phone connection 
on our road which is country and most of
the time not a lot of traffic. I looked up 
and was able to swerve at the very last minute. I am
sure I had supernatural help of the kind that was 
not there when I hit the deer a few months
ago; that involved money, this would have been 
devastating. Can't explain how I know but I
know angels were involved with keeping me 
safe. jt


On Mon, 23 May 2005 10:56:51 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: Has anyone on TT actually seen an angel? 
Izzy Kevin wrote:  Just like on ressurection 
morning he "vanished" from  the Tomb talked to some and made a 
bee line to heaven  and back all while the Jerusalem Grille was 
still serving  breakfast! How far is it to heaven and back? How 
fast  was He travelling? Going to heaven and back in 
maybe  an hour, does that make him invisible? If you 
were  travelling with Him would He be invisible? 
 It is possible that the fastness of his travel might account for 
his   vanishing, but the language used in this passage 
suggests that it  also is  possible that he simply became 
invisible and then left. The  language  focuses upon 
his vanishing rather than his leaving or coming. If it  is 
 possible that he did just become invisible, then this would be an 
 example of  someone who has a body yet is 
invisible.  What do you think about angels around us? 
Sometimes they become  visible,  but don't you think of 
angels as being in a dimension which is  invisible to  
us? The Bible seems to speak of every person having a guardian 
 angel, yet  we don't see angels as often as we see 
people. Wouldn't  invisibility be the  likely 
explanation for that? Don't you think angels have bodies? 
 Peace be with you. David Miller.
-- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with 
salt, that you  may know how you ought to answer every 
man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org  
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed. If you  have a friend 
who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
he will be subscribed.-- 
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you  
may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)  
http://www.InnGlory.org 
 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email 
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Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin




Iz has quoted him on TT and, more than once. If you 
do not see the connection between corporations and the kingdom of God then, I 
rest my case vis a vis platonism. (ask Christine as she is in UofF). Now, there 
would be an interesting conversation: Christine and David watching The 
Corporation together. . 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 06:02
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
  What is sin
  
  Iz respects DW in the Lord as a "godly man" who walks 
  in love and she may request his input but I've not seen her quoting him or 
  sitting at his feet. What do corporations have to do with the 
  KofG? They work on an entirely other principle. In fact 
  corporations are based on the evolutionary principle with the survival of the 
  fittest... jt
  
  On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:24:45 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. For those wishing 
to put 'feet' to their faith, I'd recommend a documentary entitled 'The 
Corporation'. It may be rented from BB. It demonstrates that of which I 
speak.

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  Last time I checked Lance Dallas Willard was not 
  sitting on the throne. Capitalism is by nature consumerist; 
  is
  Canada a capitalist nature by any chance? I 
  know Australia is and it is every bit as bad, maybe worse in 
  some
  ways. You know the old saying "ppl who live 
  in glass houses?" Australia is not "religious" at all, in fact it 
  is
  basically secular as is your country from what 
  I've heard. jt
  
  On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:14:26 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
You, collectively, are being judged now for 
your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on 
this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an embodied gospel. 
God may well be using 'them' to judge you.

  From: Judy 
  Taylor 
  
  Would you rather have mid east cloak and 
  dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you 
  be so sure that God is not involved with 
  what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is not 
  the time of Iraq's visitation? 
  Through history God has always used one nation to judge another. 
  Yes, the US will be judged also but - IN 
  GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. jt
  
  On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. 
Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise 
of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops near the oil 
supply) he has set much of the middle east aflame.I'd say that 
the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 

  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  FYI, 
  Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He 
  rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB 
  can be used to bring America more under the 
  rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a 
  good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, 
  including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
  Muir
  
  Your last sentence is 
  that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a kind of 
  bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that GWB is 
  bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to 
  lunch.

[TruthTalk] What is sin




Have you also tallied up third world debt? Money owed 
the US by other nations, and the cost of Canada's irresponsibilitythe 
times they opted out and reaped the benefits anyway? Someone always pays 
the price... It is hopelessly naive to think that if 
noone does anything - things will right themselves. Would Europe be a 
Western
today if Charles Martel had 
not beaten back the Islamic hoard when they got to Spain? jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:35:15 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Mr. Rogers says (from the neighborhood in the 
  sky) 'hey kids, can we say seven trillion, nine hundred and thirty-seven 
  billion?' Bankruptcy awaits.
  
From: Kevin Deegan 
First you must have 
one.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote: 


  
  
  
  

  

  Why would we be? We are not invading 
  countries to build an empire.
  
From: ShieldsFamily 
Im sure you 
and Canada are not being judged 
for anything at all. How lovely for you. 
Izzy




From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
MuirYou, collectively, are being 
judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see 
Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an 
embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge 
you.

  
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  Would you rather have mid east 
  cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also 
  how can you be
  
  so sure that God 
  is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How are you 
  so sure it is not the time
  
  of 
  Iraq's visitation? 
  Through history God has always used one nation to judge another. 
  Yes, the US will 
  be
  
  judged also but - 
  IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. 
  jt
  
  
  
  On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance 
  Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

'If' is the operative 
wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. 
Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops 
near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east 
aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 


  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  
  FYI, 
  Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He 
  rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB 
  can be used to bring America more under the 
  rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a 
  good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, 
  including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
  Muir
  
  Your last sentence is 
  that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a kind of 
  bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that GWB is 
  bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to 
  lunch.
  






Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Small Business - Try 
our new Resources site!

[TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation





Are you claiming that the fact that DM is detail 
oriented is what ran B,CD off? The "accuser" is back with 
a
vengeance and he just lovesto play the blame game on TT. Of course IYO Bill et. al. are 
blameless.? My 
daughter teaches second grade and what she reports sounds nothing at all like DM. Why do you 
continually 
verbally stone David Miller and now his daughter? For ppl who profess and are so caught up in 
God's love 
this kind of behavior is inexcusable. Remember 
love covers the multitude of sin so even if 
he were at fault 
your behaviorcondemns you 
rememberwe reap according to how we sow- 
jt


On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:38:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
When you're right...Sad ain't 
it?

  
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



In you statment below, you initiate your 
"discussion" with falsehood -- the claim that I am confused and 
you are not. Grade school combat tactics. Just plain 
silly. Why did Bill leave -- and probably Caroline and 
Debbie? They got of the tactic "win at all costs." You , 
especially, have potential, what with your eduational backgroudn (PhD 
and all). But you argue like a school kid. "Here's 
the probelm, John -- I am better than you." "Aaahh, 
no you're not ?" "YES I AM AM !!!' " No you're 
not." "Yes I am too." 


See the second grade tactic.? David 
says "Oh, now I see the crux of the matter: I follow the Bible 
andJohn doe not." Great response. Perhaps 
intellectually challenging to some in your camp, but it is a response 
that avoids the conflict, builds you up in your own eyes (and 
Izzy's -- she will now say that I was defeat simply 
because you said I was confused.)

InP3, you argue that you are in 
the apostles teaching and I am not. You do not 
teachjustification apart from obedience to law. You do not 
teach Christ as a substitute for in terms of faith and righteousness. 
You do not believe the law to be a "burden" although Peter felt this 
way. You think hell in somewhere near Compton.You do not 
know the fdifference between the old sacrifices and the new. You 
consider yourself an apostles on a par with Paul and Peter !!! 
You tout the rationalism of your thinking and call it enlightenment. I 
could go on - or would you 
prefer discussing the issue?

Dinner time. Look for Post II 
in this series, coming to your house in the near 
future.

JD 






What denominational association do you maintain and/orWhat 
denominational association is the church you now attend? Your answer to 
these questions has a lot to do with how I respond to this post. 
You know my afflication. What is yours?

JD

-Original Message-From: David Miller 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 
23 May 2005 11:27:07 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- 
Salvation


David Miller wrote:
 John 20:22-23
 (22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them,
 and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
 (23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto
 them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

John wrote:
 You are not included in this; neither am I.
 I see the apostles as having a very different relationship
 with the Christ than anyone else.

P 3This is the crux of our difference then:  doubt and unbelief concerning the 
reality of the kingdom of God.  I abide in the apostles' doctrine and 
believe that all that they were instructed in by Jesus the Christ applies to 
everyone who believes in Jesus Christ.  Jesus told the apostles:

Matthew 28:19-20
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of 
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: 
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Paul said:

Philippians 3:17
(17) Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as 
ye have us for an ensample.

Concerning the gift of the Holy Ghost that Jesus connected with the 
retaining or remitting of sins in John 20:22-23, Peter said:

Acts 2:38-39
(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in 
the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the 
gift of the Holy Ghost.
(39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE 
AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Do you speak in tongues, John?  Just how much of the Bible are you not 
included in?

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how 
you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL

[TruthTalk] What is sin




I see a connection between the rcc and corporations but 
then I do not think the rcc in any way reflects the KofG
It is political and the antithesis of all that is good, 
pure, and holy. Jesus said we are to have one Lord and the
rest of us are brethren. You see a connection 
because you are so into the teachings of the rcc church fathers
but this is the teaching of the Nicolaitians that Jesus 
hates. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:17:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Iz has quoted him on TT and, more than once. If 
  you do not see the connection between corporations and the kingdom of God 
  then, I rest my case vis a vis platonism. (ask Christine as she is in UofF). 
  Now, there would be an interesting conversation: Christine and David watching 
  The Corporation together. . 
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Iz respects DW in the Lord as a "godly man" who 
walks in love and she may request his input but I've not seen her quoting 
him or sitting at his feet. What do corporations have to do with the 
KofG? They work on an entirely other principle. In fact 
corporations are based on the evolutionary principle with the survival of 
the fittest... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:24:45 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. For those wishing 
  to put 'feet' to their faith, I'd recommend a documentary entitled 'The 
  Corporation'. It may be rented from BB. It demonstrates that of which I 
  speak.
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

Last time I checked Lance Dallas Willard was 
not sitting on the throne. Capitalism is by nature consumerist; 
is
Canada a capitalist nature by any chance? 
I know Australia is and it is every bit as bad, maybe worse in 
some
ways. You know the old saying "ppl who 
live in glass houses?" Australia is not "religious" at all, in 
fact it is
basically secular as is your country from what 
I've heard. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:14:26 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  You, collectively, are being judged now 
  for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas 
  Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an 
  embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge 
  you.
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

Would you rather have mid east cloak and 
dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can 
you be so sure that God is not involved 
with what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is 
not the time of Iraq's visitation? 
Through history God has always used one nation to judge 
another. Yes, the US will be judged 
also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. 
  Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. Under the 
  guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops near the 
  oil supply) he has set much of the middle east aflame.I'd 
  say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 
  
  
From: ShieldsFamily 


FYI, 
Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If 
He rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. 
If GWB can be used to bring America more under 
the rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is 
a good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, 
including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. 
Izzy





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
Muir

Your last sentence 
is that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a 
kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that 
GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to 
lunch.

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin




Thanks for the early morning smile. It matters that 
you do not 'see' however, God is blessing you in your faithfulness. Also, 
politics is virtually omnipresent. It is in BSF, TT and, even your 
household.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 06:35
  Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  I see a connection between the rcc and corporations 
  but then I do not think the rcc in any way reflects the KofG
  It is political and the antithesis of all that is 
  good, pure, and holy. Jesus said we are to have one Lord and 
  the
  rest of us are brethren. You see a connection 
  because you are so into the teachings of the rcc church fathers
  but this is the teaching of the Nicolaitians that 
  Jesus hates. jt
  
  On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:17:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
Iz has quoted him on TT and, more than once. If 
you do not see the connection between corporations and the kingdom of God 
then, I rest my case vis a vis platonism. (ask Christine as she is in UofF). 
Now, there would be an interesting conversation: Christine and David 
watching The Corporation together. . 

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  Iz respects DW in the Lord as a "godly man" who 
  walks in love and she may request his input but I've not seen her quoting 
  him or sitting at his feet. What do corporations have to do with the 
  KofG? They work on an entirely other principle. In fact 
  corporations are based on the evolutionary principle with the survival of 
  the fittest... jt
  
  On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:24:45 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. For those 
wishing to put 'feet' to their faith, I'd recommend a documentary 
entitled 'The Corporation'. It may be rented from BB. It demonstrates 
that of which I speak.

  From: Judy 
  Taylor 
  
  Last time I checked Lance Dallas Willard was 
  not sitting on the throne. Capitalism is by nature consumerist; 
  is
  Canada a capitalist nature by any 
  chance? I know Australia is and it is every bit as bad, maybe 
  worse in some
  ways. You know the old saying "ppl who 
  live in glass houses?" Australia is not "religious" at all, in 
  fact it is
  basically secular as is your country from 
  what I've heard. jt
  
  On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:14:26 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
You, collectively, are being judged now 
for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas 
Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an 
embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge 
you.

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  Would you rather have mid east cloak and 
  dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can 
  you be so sure that God is not involved 
  with what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it 
  is not the time of Iraq's 
  visitation? Through history God has always used one nation 
  to judge another. Yes, the US will be judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. 
  jt
  
  On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. 
Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. Under the 
guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops near 
the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east 
aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than 
God. 

  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  FYI, 
  Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If 
  He rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. 
  If GWB can be used to bring America more under 
  the rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that 
  is a good thing. God can use anyone with a willing 
  heart, including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
  Muir
  
  Your last sentence 
  is that which you, Judy, should

[TruthTalk] What is sin




Are you angry withthe US or GWB Lance? I've 
lived in Canada twice and nothing has changed, still the
old inferiority complex and finding things to be 
critical of over the border. BTW a critical spirit is not from God, 

why not be grateful for the 
good things? The US isn't all bad, if it were ppl would not be risking 
their lives to come
here - neither is Canada all good. If we looked under 
the surface we would find the same kind of corruption on a
smaller scale - maybe even worse. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:44:00 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
National debt anyone? They, it'd seem own you. The 
nations to watch are China  India. Apart from it's weaponry, the good old 
US of A pretty much produces nothing. Sorry, agriculture is still a factor, 
globally.

  
From: ShieldsFamily 
Ohhh, 
that! Yup. Thats why we now own France, Japan, and 
most of the rest of the world. 




Lance Muir 
writes:Why would we be? We are not 
invading countries to build an empire.

  
  
  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Im sure you and 
  Canada are not being judged for 
  anything at all. How lovely for you. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  Lance 
  MuirYou, collectively, are being 
  judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see 
  Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an 
  embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge 
  you.
  



From: Judy 
Taylor 











Would you rather 
have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and 
insanity. Also how can you be

so sure that God is 
not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How are you so 
sure it is not the time

of Iraq's visitation? 
Through history God has always used one nation to judge another. 
Yes, the US will 
be

judged also but - 
IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. jt



[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  'If' is the operative 
  wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. Under 
  the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops near the 
  oil supply) he has set much of the middle east aflame.I'd say 
  that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 
  
  

From: 
ShieldsFamily 



FYI, Lance, 
the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and 
reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used 
to bring America more under the 
rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good 
thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. 
So dont be so contemptuous. Izzy





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
Muir

Your last sentence is 
that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a kind of 
bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that GWB is 
bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to 
lunch.

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

I continually 'stone' DM, as you put it, because he
is in leadership. He should exhibit epistemological humility. He should operate
with open structures. He should know what ongoing learning is. He is yet a babe
but, one can get by on milk I suppose. I'll bet TD hasn't read Dallas
Willard.

- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: May 24, 2005 06:31
Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond
Farewells- Salvation

Are you claiming that the fact that DM is detail
oriented is what ran B,CD off? The "accuser" is back with
a
vengeance and he just lovesto play the blame game on TT. Of course IYO Bill et. al.
are blameless.? My
daughter teaches second grade and what she reports sounds nothing at all like DM. Why do you
continually
verbally stone David Miller and now his daughter? For ppl who profess and are so caught up in
God's love
this kind of behavior is inexcusable. Remember
love covers the multitude of sin so even if
he were at fault
your behaviorcondemns you
rememberwe reap according to how we
sow- jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:38:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
When you're right...Sad ain't
it?

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

In you statment below, you initiate your
"discussion" with falsehood -- the claim that I am confused
and you are not. Grade school combat tactics. Just
plain silly. Why did Bill leave -- and probably Caroline and
Debbie? They got of the tactic "win at all costs." You ,
especially, have potential, what with your eduational backgroudn
(PhD and all). But you argue like a school kid.
"Here's the probelm, John -- I am better than
you." "Aaahh, no you're not ?" "YES I AM AM !!!'
" No you're not." "Yes I am too."

See the second grade tactic.? David
says "Oh, now I see the crux of the matter: I follow the Bible
andJohn doe not." Great response. Perhaps
intellectually challenging to some in your camp, but it is a
response that avoids the conflict, builds you up in your own eyes
(and Izzy's -- she will now say that I was defeat
simply because you said I was confused.)

InP3, you argue that you are
in the apostles teaching and I am not. You do not
teachjustification apart from obedience to law. You do
not teach Christ as a substitute for in terms of faith and
righteousness. You do not believe the law to be a "burden" although
Peter felt this way. You think hell in somewhere near
Compton.You do not know the fdifference between the old
sacrifices and the new. You consider yourself an apostles on a par
with Paul and Peter !!! You tout the rationalism of your
thinking and call it enlightenment. I could go on
- or would you prefer discussing the
issue?

Dinner time. Look for Post II
in this series, coming to your house in the near
future.

What denominational association do you maintain and/orWhat
denominational association is the church you now attend? Your answer to
these questions has a lot to do with how I respond to this
post. You know my afflication. What is
yours?

-Original Message-From: David
Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:27:07
-0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

David Miller wrote:
John 20:22-23
(22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them,
and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
(23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto
them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

John wrote:
You are not included in this; neither am I.
I see the apostles as having a very different relationship
with the Christ than anyone else.

P 3This is the crux of our difference then: doubt and unbelief concerning the
reality of the kingdom of God. I abide in the apostles' doctrine and
believe that all that they were instructed in by Jesus the Christ applies to
everyone who believes in Jesus Christ. Jesus told the apostles:

Matthew 28:19-20
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Paul said:

Philippians 3:17
(17) Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as
ye have us for an ensample.

Concerning the gift of the Holy Ghost that Jesus connected with the
retaining or remitting of sins in John 20:22-23, Peter said:

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin




The vortex of the whirlpool awaits. Why not ask 
'the prophet' if he sees connections where you and Iz do not? He just might 
surprize you. If he did, by the by then, he'd really surprize me! I believe him 
to be largely culturally disconnected. I trust that Christine briefs him when 
she's home.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 06:19
  Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  Have you also tallied up third world debt? Money owed 
  the US by other nations, and the cost of Canada's irresponsibilitythe 
  times they opted out and reaped the benefits anyway? Someone always pays 
  the price... It is hopelessly naive to think that 
  if noone does anything - things will right themselves. Would Europe be a 
  Western
  today if Charles Martel had not beaten back the Islamic hoard when they got to 
  Spain? jt
  
  On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:35:15 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
Mr. Rogers says (from the neighborhood in the 
sky) 'hey kids, can we say seven trillion, nine hundred and thirty-seven 
billion?' Bankruptcy awaits.

  From: Kevin Deegan 
  First you must have 
  one.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  
  







Why would we be? We are not invading 
countries to build an empire.

  From: ShieldsFamily 
  Im sure you 
  and Canada are not being judged 
  for anything at all. How lovely for you. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
  MuirYou, collectively, are 
  being judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building 
  (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should 
  be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge 
  you.
  

From: 
Judy Taylor 

Would you rather have mid 
east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. 
Also how can you be

so sure that 
God is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How 
are you so sure it is not the 
time

of 
Iraq's visitation? 
Through history God has always used one nation to judge 
another. Yes, the US will 
be

judged also but 
- IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. 
jt



On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance 
Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  'If' is the operative 
  wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. 
  Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant 
  bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle 
  east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than 
  God. 
  

From: ShieldsFamily 



FYI, 
Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If 
He rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. 
If GWB can be used to bring America more under 
the rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is 
a good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, 
including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. 
Izzy





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
Muir

Your last sentence 
is that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a 
kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that 
GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to 
lunch.

  
  
  
  
  
  
  Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Small Business - Try 
  our new Resources site!

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation




Had you ever thought that possibly David is dealing 
with the principles of Truth as he sees it and you are
dealing with "him"? It boggles the mind how you 
two think that good can come out of such evil. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:41:31 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think David is off preaching to the choir. 
However, there does exist a small chorus group on TT.

  
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Part II in a series of II. This 
being"part II," Kevin, means there was a post written prior to 
this one -- we call it "Part I." 

What David does in this response is clear; he 
manifests his lack of concern for either myself or the actual 
discussion. This comment "This is the crux of our difference 
then: doubt and unbelief concerning the reality of the kingdom of God" 
is not an honest attempt at dialogue for it was not written with me 
in mind. Rather, it was written with David's audience in 
mind. Smithson must be stopped -- his gospel 
of "humanism" (apparently words with more than four letters have definitions 
that often escape David's comprehension). He knows, 
full well, that I do not agree with his statement (above.) Only 
an idiot would think this statement would carry merit with me 
-- and we all know that David is no idiot. So what 
is left. David protecting his churchkind of like the 
Apostle Peter or the Apostle Paul -- we have the 
ApostleMiller. Correct me if I am wrong - 
seriously. 

The notion that David walks in the apostles doctrine to a 
degree that I do not is both untrue and arrogant. His need 
for repentance is clear. The "Great commission" was given 
toHis apostles - the 12.Ditto for John 
20:22-23 -- we know this to be the case because the 
text is specific as to whom it is He is talking to (syntax, David -- like 
it?). Anyway - I share the gospel message because of what I have learned in the letter to the 
Romans. Chapter one - the gospel is God 's power in 
saving man and, again in chapter ten  how shall the hear 
without an evangel. More than that -- we 
are all given to the ministry of reconciliation. The "Great 
Commission" per se has little to do with you and I. 


Acts 2:38fftells us the promised spirit is for 
all. The indwelling of the spirit is evidenced by any number of 
gifted manifestations from love, joy, 
peace, kindness, gentleness to prophecy, the speaking in tongues and even 
hospitality.

JD
Pastor of the New Perichoretic Church of the First 
Born
California Branch
Bs, Ma and , well . BS 
again

Please note: this new Christian Denom will have no 
congregations in the area of Compton unless and until hell freezes 
over. 




-Original Message-From: David Miller 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 
23 May 2005 11:27:07 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- 
Salvation


David Miller wrote:
 John 20:22-23
 (22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them,
 and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
 (23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto
 them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

John wrote:
 You are not included in this; neither am I.
 I see the apostles as having a very different relationship
 with the Christ than anyone else.

This is the crux of our difference then:  doubt and unbelief concerning the 
reality of the kingdom of God.  I abide in the apostles' doctrine and 
believe that all that they were instructed in by Jesus the Christ applies to 
everyone who believes in Jesus Christ.  Jesus told the apostles:

Matthew 28:19-20
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of 
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: 
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Paul said:

Philippians 3:17
(17) Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as 
ye have us for an ensample.

Concerning the gift of the Holy Ghost that Jesus connected with the 
retaining or remitting of sins in John 20:22-23, Peter said:

Acts 2:38-39
(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in 
the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the 
gift of the Holy Ghost.
(39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE 
AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Do you speak in tongues, John?  Just how much of the Bible are you not 
included in?

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how 
you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this

[TruthTalk] What is sin




Please describe for me the hierarchy on TT? I know you 
will call DM a pope but who are the cardinals,
bishops, etc? BSF may have a board but there is 
no religious hierarchy as in rcc (Magisterium) and they do 
not push their own peculiar 
doctrine; BSF encouragesBible Study and reliance on the Holy Spirit. 
Lance
methinks you are too opinionated about what you are unfamiliar with ... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:43:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Thanks for the early morning smile. It matters 
  that you do not 'see' however, God is blessing you in your faithfulness. 
  
  Also, politics is virtually omnipresent. It is in 
  BSF, TT and, even your household.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

I see a connection between the rcc and corporations 
but then I do not think the rcc in any way reflects the KofG
It is political and the antithesis of all that is 
good, pure, and holy. Jesus said we are to have one Lord and 
the
rest of us are brethren. You see a connection 
because you are so into the teachings of the rcc church fathers
but this is the teaching of the Nicolaitians that 
Jesus hates. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:17:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Iz has quoted him on TT and, more than once. 
  If you do not see the connection between corporations and the kingdom of 
  God then, I rest my case vis a vis platonism. (ask Christine as she is in 
  UofF). Now, there would be an interesting conversation: Christine and 
  David watching The Corporation together. . 
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

Iz respects DW in the Lord as a "godly man" who 
walks in love and she may request his input but I've not seen her 
quoting him or sitting at his feet. What do corporations have to 
do with the KofG? They work on an entirely other principle. 
In fact corporations are based on the evolutionary principle with the 
survival of the fittest... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:24:45 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. For those 
  wishing to put 'feet' to their faith, I'd recommend a documentary 
  entitled 'The Corporation'. It may be rented from BB. It demonstrates 
  that of which I speak.
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

Last time I checked Lance Dallas Willard 
was not sitting on the throne. Capitalism is by nature 
consumerist; is
Canada a capitalist nature by any 
chance? I know Australia is and it is every bit as bad, maybe 
worse in some
ways. You know the old saying "ppl 
who live in glass houses?" Australia is not "religious" at 
all, in fact it is
basically secular as is your country from 
what I've heard. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:14:26 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  You, collectively, are being judged 
  now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see 
  Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should 
  be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge 
  you.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Would you rather have mid east cloak 
and dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also 
how can you be so sure that God is 
not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How are 
you so sure it is not the time of 
Iraq's visitation? Through history God has always used one 
nation to judge another. Yes, the US will be judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not 
Lance's. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  'If' is the operative wordy, 
  Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. 
  Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant 
  bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the 
  middle east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his 
  ear more than God. 
  
From: ShieldsFamily 



FYI, 
Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. 
If He rules and reigns in my life then I am in his 
Kingdom. If GWB can be used to bring 
America more 
under the rule and reign of Christ in one area or another

[TruthTalk] What is sin




Lance I find it curious that no matter what the subject 
you are ALWAYS able to revert the discussion back to 
something critical of David Miller. So you don't 
believe he has a spiritual gifting? This reflects more upon where
you are than whether or not he is used by God in this 
dimension. Also you are doubletalking. You just got
through calling Christine a carbon copy of her dad - so 
why would she need to be briefing him IYO? jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:51:05 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  The vortex of the whirlpool awaits. Why not ask 
  'the prophet' if he sees connections where you and Iz do not? He just might 
  surprize you. If he did, by the by then, he'd really surprize me! I believe 
  him to be largely culturally disconnected. I trust that Christine briefs him 
  when she's home.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Have you also tallied up third world debt? Money 
owed the US by other nations, and the cost of Canada's 
irresponsibilitythe times they opted out and reaped the benefits 
anyway? Someone always pays the price... It is hopelessly naive to 
think that if noone does anything - things will 
right themselves. Would Europe be Westerntoday if Charles Martel had not 
beaten back the Islamic hoard when they got to Spain? jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:35:15 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Mr. Rogers says (from the neighborhood in the 
  sky) 'hey kids, can we say seven trillion, nine hundred and thirty-seven 
  billion?' Bankruptcy awaits.
  
From: Kevin Deegan 
First you must have 
one.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote: 


  
  
  
  

  

  Why would we be? We are not invading 
  countries to build an empire.
  
From: ShieldsFamily 
Im sure 
you and Canada are not being 
judged for anything at all. How lovely for you. 
Izzy




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
MuirYou, collectively, are 
being judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom 
building (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to 
what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to 
judge you.

  
  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  Would you rather have mid 
  east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and 
  insanity. Also how can you 
  be
  
  so sure that 
  God is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How 
  are you so sure it is not the 
  time
  
  of 
  Iraq's 
  visitation? Through history God has always used one nation 
  to judge another. Yes, the US 
  will be
  
  judged also 
  but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. 
  jt
  
  
  
  On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance 
  Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

'If' is the 
operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't 
looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 
'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the 
middle east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear 
more than God. 

  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  
  FYI, 
  Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If 
  He rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. 
  If GWB can be used to bring America more under 
  the rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that 
  is a good thing. God can use anyone with a willing 
  heart, including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
  Muir
  
  Your last sentence 
  is that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a 
  kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that 
  GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to 
  lunch.

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin




Why? By osmosis she just might, via her peers, 
assimilate some cultural awareness.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 07:02
  Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  Lance I find it curious that no matter what the 
  subject you are ALWAYS able to revert the discussion back to 
  something critical of David Miller. So you don't 
  believe he has a spiritual gifting? This reflects more upon where
  you are than whether or not he is used by God in this 
  dimension. Also you are doubletalking. You just got
  through calling Christine a carbon copy of her dad - 
  so why would she need to be briefing him IYO? jt
  
  On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:51:05 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
The vortex of the whirlpool awaits. Why not ask 
'the prophet' if he sees connections where you and Iz do not? He just might 
surprize you. If he did, by the by then, he'd really surprize me! I believe 
him to be largely culturally disconnected. I trust that Christine briefs him 
when she's home.

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  Have you also tallied up third world debt? Money 
  owed the US by other nations, and the cost of Canada's 
  irresponsibilitythe times they opted out and reaped the benefits 
  anyway? Someone always pays the price... It is hopelessly naive to 
  think that if noone does anything - things will 
  right themselves. Would Europe be Westerntoday if Charles Martel had not 
  beaten back the Islamic hoard when they got to Spain? 
jt
  
  On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:35:15 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Mr. Rogers says (from the neighborhood in 
the sky) 'hey kids, can we say seven trillion, nine hundred and 
thirty-seven billion?' Bankruptcy awaits.

  From: Kevin Deegan 
  First you must have 
  one.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  
  







Why would we be? We are not invading 
countries to build an empire.

  From: ShieldsFamily 
  Im sure 
  you and Canada are not being 
  judged for anything at all. How lovely for you. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
  MuirYou, collectively, are 
  being judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom 
  building (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach 
  to what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' 
  to judge you.
  

From: Judy Taylor 

Would you rather have 
mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and 
insanity. Also how can you 
be

so sure 
that God is not involved with what is happening in the middle 
east. How are you so sure it is not the 
time

of 
Iraq's 
visitation? Through history God has always used one nation 
to judge another. Yes, the US will 
be

judged also 
but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. 
jt



On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 
"Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  'If' is the 
  operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't 
  looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', 
  (read 'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much 
  of the middle east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have 
  his ear more than God. 
  
  

From: ShieldsFamily 



FYI, 
Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. 
If He rules and reigns in my life then I am in his 
Kingdom. If GWB can be used to bring America more 
under the rule and reign of Christ in one area or another 
then that is a good thing. God can use anyone with a 
willing heart, including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. 
Izzy

[TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation




He does not place himself above the rest of us on TT 
and so far as I am aware there is no hierarchy here.
I know you don't believe DM to have a prophetical gift 
so let's put that issue aside. OTOH though what he
writes iswhat God has 
already said in His Word and agreeing with God is 
humility. Let's be real here and
admit that thereal reason Bill et al quit is 
because they could not "shine" in their peculiar aberrations here 
and apparently this isimportant to them - Looks 
likethey don't havestamina equal to that ofthe Mormon boys 
:)
... jt


On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:47:50 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I continually 'stone' DM, as you put it, because he 
is in leadership. He should exhibit epistemological humility. He should operate 
with open structures. He should know what ongoing learning is. He is yet a babe 
but, one can get by on milk I suppose. I'll bet TD hasn't read Dallas 
Willard.

  
From: Judy Taylor 
Are you claiming that the fact that DM is detail 
oriented is what ran B,CD off? The "accuser" is back with 
a
vengeance and he just lovesto play the blame game on TT. Of course IYO Bill et. al. 
are blameless.? My 
daughter teaches second grade and what she reports sounds nothing at all like DM. Why do 
you continually 
verbally stone David Miller and now his daughter? For ppl who profess and are so caught up 
in God's love 
this kind of behavior is inexcusable. 
Remember love covers the multitude of sin so even 
if he were at fault 
your behaviorcondemns you 
rememberwe reap according to how we 
sow- jt


On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:38:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
When you're right...Sad ain't 
it?

  
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



In you statment below, you initiate 
your "discussion" with falsehood -- the claim that I am 
confused and you are not. Grade school combat 
tactics. Just plain silly. Why did Bill leave -- 
and probably Caroline and Debbie? They got of the tactic "win at 
all costs." You , especially, have potential, what 
with your eduational backgroudn (PhD and all). But you 
argue like a school kid. "Here's the probelm, John 
-- I am better than you." "Aaahh, no you're not 
?" "YES I AM AM !!!' " No you're not." 
"Yes I am too." 


See the second grade tactic.? 
David says "Oh, now I see the crux of the matter: I follow 
the Bible andJohn doe not." Great 
response. Perhaps intellectually challenging to some in your 
camp, but it is a response that avoids the conflict, builds 
you up in your own eyes (and Izzy's -- she will 
now say that I was defeat simply because you said I was 
confused.)

InP3, you argue that you 
are in the apostles teaching and I am not. You do not 
teachjustification apart from obedience to law. You do 
not teach Christ as a substitute for in terms of faith and 
righteousness. You do not believe the law to be a "burden" 
although Peter felt this way. You think hell in somewhere near 
Compton.You do not know the fdifference between the old 
sacrifices and the new. You consider yourself an apostles on a par 
with Paul and Peter !!! You tout the rationalism of your 
thinking and call it enlightenment. I could go on 
- or would you prefer discussing the 
issue?

Dinner time. Look for Post 
II in this series, coming to your house in the near 
future.

JD 






What denominational association do you maintain and/orWhat 
denominational association is the church you now attend? Your answer to 
these questions has a lot to do with how I respond to this 
post. You know my afflication. What is 
yours?

JD

-Original Message-From: David 
Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:27:07 
-0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation


David Miller wrote:
 John 20:22-23
 (22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them,
 and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
 (23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto
 them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

John wrote:
 You are not included in this; neither am I.
 I see the apostles as having a very different relationship
 with the Christ than anyone else.

P 3This is the crux of our difference then:  doubt and unbelief concerning the 
reality of the kingdom of God.  I abide in the apostles' doctrine and 
believe that all that they were instructed in by Jesus the Christ applies to

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation




Sorry Jt but, in your case it might not take much 
'boggling'. Of course such as you and Iz can't see it. Why don't we leave off 
'stoning' TD for a bit and get on with other more significant matters. His 
followers will continue to follow.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 06:50
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: 
  [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation
  
  Had you ever thought that possibly David is dealing 
  with the principles of Truth as he sees it and you are
  dealing with "him"? It boggles the mind how you 
  two think that good can come out of such evil. jt
  
  On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:41:31 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  I think David is off preaching to the choir. 
  However, there does exist a small chorus group on TT.
  

  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  
  
  Part II in a series of II. 
  This being"part II," Kevin, means there was a post written 
  prior to this one -- we call it "Part I." 
  
  
  What David does in this response is clear; he 
  manifests his lack of concern for either myself or the actual 
  discussion. This comment "This is the crux of our difference 
  then: doubt and unbelief concerning the reality of the kingdom of God" 
  is not an honest attempt at dialogue for it was not written with 
  me in mind. Rather, it was written with David's audience in 
  mind. Smithson must be stopped -- his 
  gospel of "humanism" (apparently words with more than four letters have 
  definitions that often escape David's comprehension). He knows, 
  full well, that I do not agree with his statement (above.) 
  Only an idiot would think this statement would carry merit with me 
  -- and we all know that David is no idiot. So what 
  is left. David protecting his churchkind of like the 
  Apostle Peter or the Apostle Paul -- we have the 
  ApostleMiller. Correct me if I am wrong - 
  seriously. 
  
  The notion that David walks in the apostles doctrine to a 
  degree that I do not is both untrue and arrogant. His 
  need for repentance is clear. The "Great commission" was given 
  toHis apostles - the 12.Ditto for John 
  20:22-23 -- we know this to be the case because the 
  text is specific as to whom it is He is talking to (syntax, David -- like 
  it?). Anyway - I share the gospel 
  message because of what I have learned 
  in the letter to the Romans. Chapter one - the 
  gospel is God 's power in saving man and, again in chapter ten 
   how shall the hear without an evangel. 
  More than that -- we are all given to the ministry 
  of reconciliation. The "Great Commission" 
  per se has little to do with you and I. 
  
  Acts 2:38fftells us the promised spirit is for 
  all. The indwelling of the spirit is evidenced by any number of 
  gifted manifestations from love, joy, 
  peace, kindness, gentleness to prophecy, the speaking in tongues and 
  even hospitality.
  
  JD
  Pastor of the New Perichoretic Church of the First 
  Born
  California Branch
  Bs, Ma and , well . BS 
  again
  
  Please note: this new Christian Denom will have no 
  congregations in the area of Compton unless and until hell freezes 
  over. 
  
  
  
  
  -Original Message-From: David 
  Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:27:07 
  -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation
  

  David Miller wrote:
 John 20:22-23
 (22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them,
 and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
 (23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto
 them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

John wrote:
 You are not included in this; neither am I.
 I see the apostles as having a very different relationship
 with the Christ than anyone else.

This is the crux of our difference then:  doubt and unbelief concerning the 
reality of the kingdom of God.  I abide in the apostles' doctrine and 
believe that all that they were instructed in by Jesus the Christ applies to 
everyone who believes in Jesus Christ.  Jesus told the apostles:

Matthew 28:19-20
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of 
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: 
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Paul said:

Philippians 3:17
(17) Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as 
ye have us for an ensample.

Concerning the gift of the Holy Ghost that Jesus connected with the 
retaining or remitting of sins in John 20:22-23, Peter said:

Acts 2:38-39
(38)

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin




Just so you know, I do know the difference between 
up/down and black/white. Methinks you over generalize.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 06:43
  Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  Are you angry withthe US or GWB Lance? 
  I've lived in Canada twice and nothing has changed, still the
  old inferiority complex and finding things to be 
  critical of over the border. BTW a critical spirit is not from God, 
  
  why not be grateful for 
  the good things? The US isn't all bad, if it were ppl would not be 
  risking their lives to come
  here - neither is Canada all good. If we looked under 
  the surface we would find the same kind of corruption on a
  smaller scale - maybe even worse. 
  jt
  
  On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:44:00 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  National debt anyone? They, it'd seem own you. 
  The nations to watch are China  India. Apart from it's weaponry, the good 
  old US of A pretty much produces nothing. Sorry, agriculture is still a 
  factor, globally.
  

  From: ShieldsFamily 
  Ohhh, 
  that! Yup. Thats why we now own France, Japan, and 
  most of the rest of the world. 
  
  
  
  
  Lance Muir 
  writes:Why would we be? We are not 
  invading countries to build an empire.
  



From: ShieldsFamily 









Im sure you 
and Canada are not being judged 
for anything at all. How lovely for you. 
Izzy



Lance 
MuirYou, collectively, are being 
judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see 
Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an 
embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge 
you.

  
  
  
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Would you rather 
  have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and 
  insanity. Also how can you be
  
  so sure that God 
  is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How are you 
  so sure it is not the time
  
  of Iraq's visitation? 
  Through history God has always used one nation to judge another. 
  Yes, the US will 
  be
  
  judged also but - 
  IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. 
  jt
  
  
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

'If' is the operative 
wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. 
Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops 
near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east 
aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 


  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  
  FYI, 
  Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He 
  rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB 
  can be used to bring America more under the 
  rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a 
  good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, 
  including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
  Muir
  
  Your last sentence is 
  that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a kind of 
  bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that GWB is 
  bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to 
  lunch.

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

Indeed, he feigns not doing so. His attitude
preceeds him. IFF he is not truly a prideful man then, someone should tell his
fingers prior to them landing on the keyboard.

- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: May 24, 2005 07:15
Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond
Farewells- Salvation

He does not place himself above the rest of us on TT
and so far as I am aware there is no hierarchy here.
I know you don't believe DM to have a prophetical
gift so let's put that issue aside. OTOH though what he
writes iswhat God
has already said in His Word and agreeing with God is
humility. Let's be real here and
admit that thereal reason Bill et al quit is
because they could not "shine" in their peculiar aberrations here

and apparently this isimportant to them - Looks
likethey don't havestamina equal to that ofthe Mormon boys
:)
... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:47:50 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I continually 'stone' DM, as you put it, because
he is in leadership. He should exhibit epistemological humility. He should
operate with open structures. He should know what ongoing learning is. He is
yet a babe but, one can get by on milk I suppose. I'll bet TD hasn't read
Dallas Willard.

From: Judy Taylor
Are you claiming that the fact that DM is detail
oriented is what ran B,CD off? The "accuser" is back with
a
vengeance and he just lovesto play the blame game on TT. Of course IYO Bill et.
al. are blameless.? My
daughter teaches second grade and what she reports sounds nothing at all like DM. Why do
you continually
verbally stone David Miller and now his daughter? For ppl who profess and are so caught up
in God's love
this kind of behavior is inexcusable.
Remember love covers the multitude of sin so
even if he were at fault
your behaviorcondemns you
rememberwe reap according to how we
sow- jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:38:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
When you're right...Sad ain't
it?

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

In you statment below, you initiate
your "discussion" with falsehood -- the claim that I am
confused and you are not. Grade school combat
tactics. Just plain silly. Why did Bill leave
-- and probably Caroline and Debbie? They got of the tactic "win
at all costs." You , especially, have potential, what
with your eduational backgroudn (PhD and all). But
you argue like a school kid. "Here's the probelm,
John -- I am better than you." "Aaahh, no
you're not ?" "YES I AM AM !!!' " No you're
not." "Yes I am too."

See the second grade tactic.?
David says "Oh, now I see the crux of the matter: I follow
the Bible andJohn doe not." Great
response. Perhaps intellectually challenging to some in
your camp, but it is a response that avoids the conflict,
builds you up in your own eyes (and Izzy's --
she will now say that I was defeat simply because you said I was
confused.)

InP3, you argue that you
are in the apostles teaching and I am not. You do not
teachjustification apart from obedience to law. You
do not teach Christ as a substitute for in terms of faith and
righteousness. You do not believe the law to be a "burden"
although Peter felt this way. You think hell in somewhere near
Compton.You do not know the fdifference between the old
sacrifices and the new. You consider yourself an apostles on a
par with Paul and Peter !!! You tout the rationalism of
your thinking and call it enlightenment. I could go
on - or would you prefer
discussing the issue?

Dinner time. Look for
Post II in this series, coming to your house in the near
future.

What denominational association do you maintain and/orWhat
denominational association is the church you now attend? Your answer
to these questions has a lot to do with how I respond to this
post. You know my afflication. What is
yours?

-Original Message-From: David
Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:27:07
-0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

David Miller wrote:

[TruthTalk] What is sin




Maybe they are more liberal in Canada, the one I attend 
does not allow promoting books, tapes, videos, etc.
We are not to mention our denominations either although 
Hqtrs says there are at least 241 different ones
represented. We were given a magazine with 
suggested reading and study for the summer but they do not
push it. Even the special classes (I attended two 
this year) do not promote anything other than studying God's
Word and putting it into practice. If you have 
heard anything else then it must be peculiar to Canada. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 07:16:15 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  'they (BSF) do not push their own peculiar 
  doctrine'. Really!? They send me the recommended reading lists every time a 
  new one is 'created'. Whatever I don't know, Jt, I do know books. Sorry, but 
  they do push their own peculiar (which, in reality, ain't so 'peculiar'. It's 
  quite good) doctrine. I guess you hadn't noticed. That's OK.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Please describe for me the hierarchy on TT? I know 
you will call DM a pope but who are the cardinals,
bishops, etc? BSF may have a board but there 
is no religious hierarchy as in rcc (Magisterium) and they do 
not push their own 
peculiar doctrine; BSF encouragesBible Study and reliance on the Holy 
Spirit. Lance
methinks you are too opinionated about what you are unfamiliar with ... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:43:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Thanks for the early morning smile. It 
  matters that you do not 'see' however, God is blessing you in your 
  faithfulness. 
  Also, politics is virtually omnipresent. It 
  is in BSF, TT and, even your household.
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

I see a connection between the rcc and 
corporations but then I do not think the rcc in any way reflects the 
KofG
It is political and the antithesis of all that 
is good, pure, and holy. Jesus said we are to have one Lord and 
the
rest of us are brethren. You see a 
connection because you are so into the teachings of the rcc church 
fathers
but this is the teaching of the Nicolaitians 
that Jesus hates. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:17:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Iz has quoted him on TT and, more than 
  once. If you do not see the connection between corporations and the 
  kingdom of God then, I rest my case vis a vis platonism. (ask 
  Christine as she is in UofF). Now, there would be an interesting 
  conversation: Christine and David watching The Corporation together. . 
  
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

Iz respects DW in the Lord as a "godly man" 
who walks in love and she may request his input but I've not seen 
her quoting him or sitting at his feet. What do corporations 
have to do with the KofG? They work on an entirely other 
principle. In fact corporations are based on the evolutionary 
principle with the survival of the fittest... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:24:45 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. For those 
  wishing to put 'feet' to their faith, I'd recommend a documentary 
  entitled 'The Corporation'. It may be rented from BB. It 
  demonstrates that of which I speak.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Last time I checked Lance Dallas 
Willard was not sitting on the throne. Capitalism is by 
nature consumerist; is
Canada a capitalist nature by any 
chance? I know Australia is and it is every bit as bad, 
maybe worse in some
ways. You know the old saying 
"ppl who live in glass houses?" Australia is not 
"religious" at all, in fact it is
basically secular as is your country 
from what I've heard. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:14:26 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  You, collectively, are being 
  judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom 
  building (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic 
  approach to what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be 
  using 'them' to judge you.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Would you rather have mid east 
cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and 
insanity. Also how

[TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation




Well I shouldn't be surprised that your disdain extends 
to Izzy and I as well because it's the nature ofcritical
spirits to be critical. Oh well, I guess we are 
slaves to whoever we choose to serve. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 07:18:09 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Sorry Jt but, in your case it might not take much 
  'boggling'. Of course such as you and Iz can't see it. Why don't we leave off 
  'stoning' TD for a bit and get on with other more significant matters. His 
  followers will continue to follow.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Had you ever thought that possibly David is dealing 
with the principles of Truth as he sees it and you are
dealing with "him"? It boggles the mind how 
you two think that good can come out of such evil. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:41:31 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
I think David is off preaching to the choir. 
However, there does exist a small chorus group on TT.

  
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Part II in a series of II. 
This being"part II," Kevin, means there was a post written 
prior to this one -- we call it "Part I." 


What David does in this response is clear; he 
manifests his lack of concern for either myself or the actual 
discussion. This comment "This is the crux of our difference 
then: doubt and unbelief concerning the reality of 
the kingdom of God" is not an honest attempt at dialogue for it was not 
written with me in mind. Rather, it was written with David's 
audience in mind. Smithson must be stopped 
-- his gospel of "humanism" (apparently words with more than 
four letters have definitions that often escape David's 
comprehension). He knows, full well, that I do not agree 
with his 
statement (above.) Only an idiot would think 
this statement would carry merit with me -- and we all 
know that David is no idiot. So what is left. 
David protecting his churchkind of like the Apostle Peter or the 
Apostle Paul -- we have the 
ApostleMiller. Correct me if I am wrong - 
seriously. 

The notion that David walks in the apostles doctrine to a 
degree that I do not is both untrue and arrogant. His 
need for repentance is clear. The "Great commission" was 
given toHis apostles - the 12.Ditto for John 
20:22-23 -- we know this to be the case because the 
text is specific as to whom it is He is talking to (syntax, David -- 
like it?). Anyway - I share the gospel 
message because of what I have 
learned in the letter to the Romans. Chapter one 
- the gospel is God 's power in saving man and, again in chapter 
ten  how shall the hear without an 
evangel. More than that -- we are 
all given to the ministry of reconciliation. The 
"Great Commission" per se has little to do with you and I. 


Acts 2:38fftells us the promised spirit is for 
all. The indwelling of the spirit is evidenced by any number 
of gifted manifestations from love, 
joy, peace, kindness, gentleness to prophecy, the 
speaking in tongues and even hospitality.

JD
Pastor of the New Perichoretic Church of the First 
Born
California Branch
Bs, Ma and , well . BS 
again

Please note: this new Christian Denom will have no 
congregations in the area of Compton unless and until hell freezes 
over. 




-Original Message-From: David 
Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:27:07 
-0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation


David Miller wrote:
 John 20:22-23
 (22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them,
 and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
 (23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto
 them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

John wrote:
 You are not included in this; neither am I.
 I see the apostles as having a very different relationship
 with the Christ than anyone else.

This is the crux of our difference then:  doubt and unbelief concerning the 
reality of the kingdom of God.  I abide in the apostles' doctrine and 
believe that all that they were instructed in by Jesus the Christ applies to 
everyone who believes in Jesus Christ.  Jesus told the apostles:

Matthew 28:19-20
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of 
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: 
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Paul said:

[TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation




Just goes to show that we see more than politics 
entirely differently. I don't find what DM writes to be
any more prideful thanthe rest of us, in fact 
many times I have observed that he lets things pass and 
goes the extra mile with ppl who are derisive and 
abusive toward him. Since God says "vengeance is
mine, I will repay" Why not let Him deal with DM? 
After all the incarnation is all about love isn't it?
Jesus was born into this world and went to the cross 
willingly so that you and I could be free to love. 
And love includes DM and Christine. I thank Him 
for them. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 07:22:58 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Indeed, he feigns not doing so. His attitude 
preceeds him. IFF he is not truly a prideful man then, someone should tell his 
fingers prior 
to them landing on the keyboard.

  
From: Judy Taylor 

He does not place himself above the rest of us on 
TT and so far as I am aware there is no hierarchy here.
I know you don't believe DM to have a prophetical 
gift so let's put that issue aside. OTOH though what he
writes iswhat God 
has already said in His Word and agreeing with God is 
humility. Let's be real here and
admit that thereal reason Bill et al quit is 
because they could not "shine" in their peculiar aberrations here 

and apparently this isimportant to them - 
Looks likethey don't havestamina equal to that ofthe 
Mormon boys :)
... jt


On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:47:50 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
I continually 'stone' DM, as you put it, 
because he is in leadership. He should exhibit epistemological humility. He 
should operate with open structures. He should know what ongoing learning 
is. He is yet a babe but, one can get by on milk I suppose. I'll bet TD 
hasn't read Dallas Willard.

  
From: Judy 
Taylor 
Are you claiming that the fact that DM is 
detail oriented is what ran B,CD off? The "accuser" is back 
with a
vengeance and he just lovesto play the blame game on TT. Of course IYO Bill et. 
al. are blameless.? My 
daughter teaches second grade and what she reports sounds nothing at all like DM. Why 
do you continually 
verbally stone David Miller and now 
his daughter? For ppl who profess and 
are so caught up in God's love 
this kind of behavior is inexcusable. 
Remember love covers the multitude of sin so 
even if he were at fault 
your behaviorcondemns you 
rememberwe reap according to how we 
sow- jt


On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:38:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
When you're right...Sad ain't 
it?

  
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



In you statment below, you initiate 
your "discussion" with falsehood -- the claim that I am 
confused and you are not. Grade school combat 
tactics. Just plain silly. Why did Bill 
leave -- and probably Caroline and Debbie? They got of the 
tactic "win at all costs." You , especially, have 
potential, what with your eduational backgroudn (PhD and 
all). But you argue like a school kid. 
"Here's the probelm, John -- I am better than 
you." "Aaahh, no you're not ?" "YES I AM AM 
!!!' " No you're not." "Yes I am too." 



See the second grade tactic.? 
David says "Oh, now I see the crux of the matter: I 
follow the Bible andJohn doe not." Great 
response. Perhaps intellectually challenging to some in 
your camp, but it is a response that avoids the 
conflict, builds you up in your own eyes (and 
Izzy's -- she will now say that I was defeat 
simply because you said I was 
confused.)

InP3, you argue that 
you are in the apostles teaching and I am not. You do 
not teachjustification apart from obedience to 
law. You do not teach Christ as a substitute for in 
terms of faith and righteousness. You do not believe the law 
to be a "burden" although Peter felt this way. You think hell 
in somewhere near Compton.You do not know the 
fdifference between the old sacrifices and the new. You 
consider yourself an apostles on a par with Paul and Peter 
!!! You tout the rationalism of your thinking and call 
it enlightenment. I could go on 
- or would you prefer discussing the 
issue?

Dinner time. Look for 
Post II in this series, coming to your

[TruthTalk] What is sin




Headquarters is in San Antonio TX and all the leaders 
go there for training - which training is how to conduct
groups and stay clear of special interests. If 
something is controversial they say so and move on. I'm aware of
the book titles they have given for summer study. 
jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 08:07:11 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The list is supplied from some 'international' 
headquarters.I've recognized all of the authors and titles.Like I said, they are 
all quite good.

  
From: Judy Taylor 

Maybe they are more liberal in Canada, the one I 
attend does not allow promoting books, tapes, videos, etc.
We are not to mention our denominations either 
although Hqtrs says there are at least 241 different ones
represented. We were given a magazine with 
suggested reading and study for the summer but they do not
push it. Even the special classes (I attended 
two this year) do not promote anything other than studying 
God's
Word and putting it into practice. If you 
have heard anything else then it must be peculiar to Canada. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 07:16:15 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  'they (BSF) do not push their own peculiar 
  doctrine'. Really!? They send me the recommended reading lists every time 
  a new one is 'created'. Whatever I don't know, Jt, I do know books. Sorry, 
  but they do push their own peculiar (which, in reality, ain't so 
  'peculiar'. It's quite good) doctrine. I guess you hadn't noticed. That's 
  OK.
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

Please describe for me the hierarchy on TT? I 
know you will call DM a pope but who are the cardinals,
bishops, etc? BSF may have a board but 
there is no religious hierarchy as in rcc (Magisterium) and they do 

not push their own 
peculiar doctrine; BSF encouragesBible Study and reliance on the 
Holy Spirit. Lance
methinks you are too opinionated about what you are unfamiliar with ... 
jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:43:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Thanks for the early morning smile. It 
  matters that you do not 'see' however, God is blessing you in your 
  faithfulness. 
  Also, politics is virtually omnipresent. 
  It is in BSF, TT and, even your household.
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

I see a connection between the rcc and 
corporations but then I do not think the rcc in any way reflects the 
KofG
It is political and the antithesis of all 
that is good, pure, and holy. Jesus said we are to have one 
Lord and the
rest of us are brethren. You see a 
connection because you are so into the teachings of the rcc church 
fathers
but this is the teaching of the 
Nicolaitians that Jesus hates. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:17:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Iz has quoted him on TT and, more 
  than once. If you do not see the connection between corporations 
  and the kingdom of God then, I rest my case vis a vis platonism. 
  (ask Christine as she is in UofF). Now, there would be an 
  interesting conversation: Christine and David watching The 
  Corporation together. . 
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Iz respects DW in the Lord as a "godly 
man" who walks in love and she may request his input but I've 
not seen her quoting him or sitting at his feet. What do 
corporations have to do with the KofG? They work on an 
entirely other principle. In fact corporations are based 
on the evolutionary principle with the survival of the 
fittest... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:24:45 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. For 
  those wishing to put 'feet' to their faith, I'd recommend a 
  documentary entitled 'The Corporation'. It may be rented from 
  BB. It demonstrates that of which I speak.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Last time I checked Lance Dallas 
Willard was not sitting on the throne. Capitalism is 
by nature consumerist; is
Canada a capitalist nature by any 
chance? I know Australia is and it is every bit as 
bad, maybe worse in some
ways. You

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation




Most assuredly DM  CM are 'included for 
participation in the Trinitarian life of God'. Point taken!

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 08:17
  Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond 
  Farewells- Salvation
  
  Just goes to show that we see more than politics 
  entirely differently. I don't find what DM writes to be
  any more prideful thanthe rest of us, in fact 
  many times I have observed that he lets things pass and 
  goes the extra mile with ppl who are derisive and 
  abusive toward him. Since God says "vengeance is
  mine, I will repay" Why not let Him deal with 
  DM? After all the incarnation is all about love isn't it?
  Jesus was born into this world and went to the cross 
  willingly so that you and I could be free to love. 
  And love includes DM and Christine. I thank Him 
  for them. jt
  
  On Tue, 24 May 2005 07:22:58 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  Indeed, he feigns not doing so. His attitude 
  preceeds him. IFF he is not truly a prideful man then, someone should tell his 
  fingers prior 
  to them landing on the keyboard.
  

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  He does not place himself above the rest of us on 
  TT and so far as I am aware there is no hierarchy here.
  I know you don't believe DM to have a prophetical 
  gift so let's put that issue aside. OTOH though what he
  writes iswhat 
  God has already said in His Word and agreeing with God is 
  humility. Let's be real here and
  admit that thereal reason Bill et al quit 
  is because they could not "shine" in their peculiar aberrations here 
  
  and apparently this isimportant to them - 
  Looks likethey don't havestamina equal to that ofthe 
  Mormon boys :)
  ... jt
  
  
  On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:47:50 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  I continually 'stone' DM, as you put it, 
  because he is in leadership. He should exhibit epistemological humility. 
  He should operate with open structures. He should know what ongoing 
  learning is. He is yet a babe but, one can get by on milk I suppose. I'll 
  bet TD hasn't read Dallas Willard.
  

  From: Judy 
  Taylor 
  Are you claiming that the fact that DM is 
  detail oriented is what ran B,CD off? The "accuser" is back 
  with a
  vengeance and he just lovesto play the blame game on TT. Of course IYO Bill 
  et. al. are blameless.? My 
  daughter teaches second grade and 
  what she reports sounds nothing at all like 
  DM. Why do you continually 
  verbally stone David Miller and now 
  his daughter? For ppl who profess and 
  are so caught up in God's love 
  this kind of behavior is inexcusable. 
  Remember love covers the multitude of sin 
  so even if he were at fault 
  your behaviorcondemns you 
  rememberwe reap according to how we 
  sow- jt
  
  
  On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:38:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  When you're right...Sad ain't 
  it?
  

  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  
  
  In you statment below, you 
  initiate your "discussion" with falsehood -- the claim 
  that I am confused and you are not. Grade school 
  combat tactics. Just plain silly. Why did 
  Bill leave -- and probably Caroline and Debbie? They got of 
  the tactic "win at all costs." You , especially, have 
  potential, what with your eduational backgroudn (PhD and 
  all). But you argue like a school kid. 
  "Here's the probelm, John -- I am better than 
  you." "Aaahh, no you're not ?" "YES I AM AM 
  !!!' " No you're not." "Yes I am 
  too." 
  
  
  See the second grade 
  tactic.? David says "Oh, now I see the crux of the 
  matter: I follow the Bible andJohn doe 
  not." Great response. Perhaps 
  intellectually challenging to some in your camp, but it is a 
  response that avoids the conflict, builds you up in your own 
  eyes (and Izzy's -- she will now say that 
  I was defeat simply because you said I was 
  confused.)
  
  InP3, you argue that 
  you are in the apostles teaching and I am not. You do 
  not teachjustification apart from obedience to 
  law. You do not teach Christ as a substitute for in 
  terms of faith and righteousness. You do not believe the law 
  to be a

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin




'Sure' as in certain, I'm not. However, the 
handwriting is on the wall. Ignore it at your own peril. I believe the 'rapture' 
business to be entirely hockum but I do believe that bad times are on the way 
for the 'lower 48' (the upper 10 as well)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 08:11
  Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  I wouldn't be so sure Lance; the powers of darkness 
  can cause one to believe that black is white and sour
  is sweet. So I don't find ppl who are as sure as 
  youthat you know all the details of international politics, 

  trade, etc. to be truly credible. Many of us 
  who live in the lower 48have an entirely other perspective
  even without any rose coloured glasses. 
  jt
  
  On Tue, 24 May 2005 07:19:31 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
  
  Just so you know, I do know the difference 
  between up/down and black/white. Methinks you over generalize.
  

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  Are you angry withthe US or GWB 
  Lance? I've lived in Canada twice and nothing has changed, still 
  the
  old inferiority complex and finding things to be 
  critical of over the border. BTW a critical spirit is not from God, 
  why not be grateful 
  for the good things? The US isn't all bad, if it were ppl would not 
  be risking their lives to come here - neither 
  is Canada all good. If we looked under the surface we would find the same 
  kind of corruption on a smaller scale - maybe 
  even worse. jt
  
  On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:44:00 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  National debt anyone? They, it'd seem own 
  you. The nations to watch are China  India. Apart from it's weaponry, 
  the good old US of A pretty much produces nothing. Sorry, agriculture is 
  still a factor, globally.
  

  From: ShieldsFamily 
  Ohhh, 
  that! Yup. Thats why we now own France, Japan, 
  and most of the rest of the world. 
  
  
  
  
  
  Lance Muir 
  writes:Why would we be? We are 
  not invading countries to build an 
  empire.
  



From: 
ShieldsFamily 









Im sure 
you and Canada are not being 
judged for anything at all. How lovely for you. 
Izzy



Lance 
MuirYou, collectively, are 
being judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom 
building (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to 
what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to 
judge you.

  
  
  
  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Would you 
  rather have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence 
  and insanity. Also how can you 
  be
  
  so sure that 
  God is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How 
  are you so sure it is not the 
  time
  
  of Iraq's 
  visitation? Through history God has always used one nation 
  to judge another. Yes, the US will 
  be
  
  judged also 
  but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. 
  jt
  
  
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

'If' is the 
operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't 
looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 
'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the 
middle east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear 
more than God. 

  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  
  FYI, 
  Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If 
  He rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. 
  If GWB can be used to bring America more under 
  the rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that 
  is a good thing. God can use anyone with a willing

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

You make my very own point.

- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: May 24, 2005 08:04
Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond
Farewells- Salvation

Well I shouldn't be surprised that your disdain
extends to Izzy and I as well because it's the nature
ofcritical
spirits to be critical. Oh well, I guess we are
slaves to whoever we choose to serve. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 07:18:09 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

Sorry Jt but, in your case it might not take
much 'boggling'. Of course such as you and Iz can't see it. Why don't we
leave off 'stoning' TD for a bit and get on with other more significant
matters. His followers will continue to follow.

From: Judy Taylor

Had you ever thought that possibly David is
dealing with the principles of Truth as he sees it and you
are
dealing with "him"? It boggles the mind how
you two think that good can come out of such evil. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:41:31 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I think David is off preaching to the choir.
However, there does exist a small chorus group on TT.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Part II in a series of
II. This being"part II," Kevin, means there
was a post written prior to this one -- we call it "Part
I."

What David does in this response is clear; he
manifests his lack of concern for either myself or the actual
discussion. This comment "This is the crux of our
difference then: doubt and unbelief concerning the reality
of the kingdom of God" is not an honest attempt at dialogue for it was not written with me in
mind. Rather, it was written with David's audience in
mind. Smithson must be stopped -- his
gospel of "humanism" (apparently words with more than four letters
have definitions that often escape David's
comprehension). He knows, full well, that I do not agree
with his
statement (above.) Only an idiot would think
this statement would carry merit with me -- and we
all know that David is no idiot. So what is
left. David protecting his churchkind of like the
Apostle Peter or the Apostle Paul -- we have
the ApostleMiller. Correct me if I am wrong
- seriously.

The notion that David walks in the apostles doctrine to a
degree that I do not is both untrue and arrogant.
His need for repentance is clear. The "Great commission"
was given toHis apostles - the 12.Ditto for
John 20:22-23 -- we know this to be the case because
the text is specific as to whom it is He is talking to (syntax, David
-- like it?). Anyway - I share
the gospel message because of what I have learned in the letter to the
Romans. Chapter one - the gospel is God 's
power in saving man and, again in chapter ten how
shall the hear without an evangel. More than
that -- we are all given to the ministry
of reconciliation. The "Great
Commission" per se has little to do with you and I.

Acts 2:38fftells us the promised spirit is for
all. The indwelling of the spirit is
evidenced by any number of gifted manifestations from love, joy, peace, kindness, gentleness to prophecy, the speaking in tongues
and even hospitality.

JD
Pastor of the New Perichoretic Church of the First
Born
California Branch
Bs, Ma and , well . BS
again

Please note: this new Christian Denom will have no
congregations in the area of Compton unless and until hell freezes
over.

-Original Message-From: David
Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:27:07
-0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

John wrote:
You are not included in this; neither am I.
I see the apostles as having a very different relationship
with the Christ than anyone else.

This is the crux of our difference then: doubt and unbelief concerning the
reality of the kingdom of God. I abide in the apostles' doctrine and
believe that

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin

Been saying that since the 70's at least.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Mr. Rogers says (from the neighborhood in the sky) 'hey kids, can we say seven trillion, nine hundred and thirty-seven billion?' Bankruptcy awaits.

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 23, 2005 16:21
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin

First you must have one.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Why would we be? We are not invading countries to build an empire.

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 23, 2005 11:57
Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin

Im sure you and Canada are not being judged for anything at all. How lovely for you. Izzy

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:14 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin

You, collectively, are being judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge you.

- Original Message - 

From: Judy Taylor 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: May 23, 2005 10:12

Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin

Would you rather have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you be

so sure that God is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is not the time

of Iraq's visitation? Through history God has always used one nation to judge another. Yes, the US will be

judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 

From: ShieldsFamily 

FYI, Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used to bring America more under the rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. Izzy

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir

Your last sentence is that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to lunch.

Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!
		Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!

Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin

Lance prays for the day that China will become a super power.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








National debt anyone? They, it'd seem own you. The nations to watch are China  India. Apart from it's weaponry, the good old US of A pretty much produces nothing. Sorry, agriculture is still a factor, globally.

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 23, 2005 22:31
Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin


Ohhh, that! Yup. Thats why we now own France, Japan, and most of the rest of the world. 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, May 23, 2005 10:41 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin


Why would we be? We are not invading countries to build an empire.


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: May 23, 2005 11:57

Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin


Im sure you and Canada are not being judged for anything at all. How lovely for you. Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:14 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin


You, collectively, are being judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge you.


- Original Message - 

From: Judy Taylor 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: May 23, 2005 10:12

Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin



Would you rather have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you be

so sure that God is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is not the time

of Iraq's visitation? Through history God has always used one nation to judge another. Yes, the US will be

judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. jt



On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 


From: ShieldsFamily 


FYI, Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used to bring America more under the rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir

Your last sentence is that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to lunch.





		Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!

Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation


Rom 12:16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.Problem is Lance is so WISE, he thinks he has to condescend to everyone since he is elitist inteligensiaJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Are you claiming that the fact that DM is detail oriented is what ran B,CD off? The "accuser" is back with a
vengeance and he just lovesto play the blame game on TT. Of course IYO Bill et. al. are blameless.? My 
daughter teaches second grade and what she reports sounds nothing at all like DM. Why do you continually 
verbally stone David Miller and now his daughter? For ppl who profess and are so caught up in God's love 
this kind of behavior is inexcusable. Remember love covers the multitude of sin so even if he were at fault 
your behaviorcondemns you rememberwe reap according to how we sow- jt


On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:38:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
When you're right...Sad ain't it?


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



In you statment below, you initiate your "discussion" with falsehood -- the claim that I am confused and you are not. Grade school combat tactics. Just plain silly. Why did Bill leave -- and probably Caroline and Debbie? They got of the tactic "win at all costs." You , especially, have potential, what with your eduational backgroudn (PhD and all). But you argue like a school kid. "Here's the probelm, John -- I am better than you." "Aaahh, no you're not ?" "YES I AM AM !!!' " No you're not." "Yes I am too." 


See the second grade tactic.? David says "Oh, now I see the crux of the matter: I follow the Bible andJohn doe not." Great response. Perhaps intellectually challenging to some in your camp, but it is a response that avoids the conflict, builds you up in your own eyes (and Izzy's -- she will now say that I was defeat simply because you said I was confused.)

InP3, you argue that you are in the apostles teaching and I am not. You do not teachjustification apart from obedience to law. You do not teach Christ as a substitute for in terms of faith and righteousness. You do not believe the law to be a "burden" although Peter felt this way. You think hell in somewhere near Compton.You do not know the fdifference between the old sacrifices and the new. You consider yourself an apostles on a par with Paul and Peter !!! You tout the rationalism of your thinking and call it enlightenment. I could go on - or would you prefer discussing the issue?

Dinner time. Look for Post II in this series, coming to your house in the near future.

JD 





What denominational association do you maintain and/orWhat denominational association is the church you now attend? Your answer to these questions has a lot to do with how I respond to this post. You know my afflication. What is yours?

JD

-Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:27:07 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation


David Miller wrote:
 John 20:22-23
 (22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them,
 and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
 (23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto
 them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

John wrote:
 You are not included in this; neither am I.
 I see the apostles as having a very different relationship
 with the Christ than anyone else.

P 3This is the crux of our difference then:  doubt and unbelief concerning the 
reality of the kingdom of God.  I abide in the apostles' doctrine and 
believe that all that they were instructed in by Jesus the Christ applies to 
everyone who believes in Jesus Christ.  Jesus told the apostles:

Matthew 28:19-20
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of 
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: 
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Paul said:

Philippians 3:17
(17) Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as 
ye have us for an ensample.

Concerning the gift of the Holy Ghost that Jesus connected with the 
retaining or remitting of sins in John 20:22-23, Peter said:

Acts 2:38-39
(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in 
the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the 
gift of the Holy Ghost.
(39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE 
AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Do you speak in tongues, John?  Just how much of the Bible are you not 
included in?

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how 
you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

LOL

CMONDM pick up some HUMILITY like Lance has.

Gordon Clark warned: "If man can know nothing truly, man can truly know nothing. We cannot know that the Bible is the Word of God, that Christ died for our sin, or that Christ is alive today at the right hand of the Father. Unless knowledge is possible, Christianity is non-sensical, for it claims to be knowledge. What is at stake in the twentieth century is not simply a single doctrine, such as the Virgin Birth, or the existence of Hell, as important as those doctrines may be, but the whole of Christianity itself. If knowledge is not possible to man, it is worse than silly to argue points of doctrine--it is insane."Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I continually 'stone' DM, as you put it, because he is in leadership. He should exhibit epistemological humility. He should operate with open structures. He should know what ongoing learning is. He is yet a babe but, one can get by on milk I suppose. I'll bet TD hasn't read Dallas Willard.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 24, 2005 06:31
Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation


Are you claiming that the fact that DM is detail oriented is what ran B,CD off? The "accuser" is back with a
vengeance and he just lovesto play the blame game on TT. Of course IYO Bill et. al. are blameless.? My 
daughter teaches second grade and what she reports sounds nothing at all like DM. Why do you continually 
verbally stone David Miller and now his daughter? For ppl who profess and are so caught up in God's love 
this kind of behavior is inexcusable. Remember love covers the multitude of sin so even if he were at fault 
your behaviorcondemns you rememberwe reap according to how we sow- jt


On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:38:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
When you're right...Sad ain't it?


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



In you statment below, you initiate your "discussion" with falsehood -- the claim that I am confused and you are not. Grade school combat tactics. Just plain silly. Why did Bill leave -- and probably Caroline and Debbie? They got of the tactic "win at all costs." You , especially, have potential, what with your eduational backgroudn (PhD and all). But you argue like a school kid. "Here's the probelm, John -- I am better than you." "Aaahh, no you're not ?" "YES I AM AM !!!' " No you're not." "Yes I am too." 


See the second grade tactic.? David says "Oh, now I see the crux of the matter: I follow the Bible andJohn doe not." Great response. Perhaps intellectually challenging to some in your camp, but it is a response that avoids the conflict, builds you up in your own eyes (and Izzy's -- she will now say that I was defeat simply because you said I was confused.)

InP3, you argue that you are in the apostles teaching and I am not. You do not teachjustification apart from obedience to law. You do not teach Christ as a substitute for in terms of faith and righteousness. You do not believe the law to be a "burden" although Peter felt this way. You think hell in somewhere near Compton.You do not know the fdifference between the old sacrifices and the new. You consider yourself an apostles on a par with Paul and Peter !!! You tout the rationalism of your thinking and call it enlightenment. I could go on - or would you prefer discussing the issue?

Dinner time. Look for Post II in this series, coming to your house in the near future.

JD 





What denominational association do you maintain and/orWhat denominational association is the church you now attend? Your answer to these questions has a lot to do with how I respond to this post. You know my afflication. What is yours?

JD

-Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:27:07 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation


David Miller wrote:
 John 20:22-23
 (22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them,
 and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
 (23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto
 them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

John wrote:
 You are not included in this; neither am I.
 I see the apostles as having a very different relationship
 with the Christ than anyone else.

P 3This is the crux of our difference then:  doubt and unbelief concerning the 
reality of the kingdom of God.  I abide in the apostles' doctrine and 
believe that all that they were instructed in by Jesus the Christ applies to 
everyone who believes in Jesus Christ.  Jesus told the apostles:

Matthew 28:19-20
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of 
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: 
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Paul said:

Philippians 3:17
(17) Brethren, be

Re: [TruthTalk] What is sin

methinks you are too opinionated about what you are unfamiliar with 
NOoo

Gotta keep 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








Please describe for me the hierarchy on TT? I know you will call DM a pope but who are the cardinals,
bishops, etc? BSF may have a board but there is no religious hierarchy as in rcc (Magisterium) and they do 
not push their own peculiar doctrine; BSF encouragesBible Study and reliance on the Holy Spirit. Lance
methinks you are too opinionated about what you are unfamiliar with ... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:43:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Thanks for the early morning smile. It matters that you do not 'see' however, God is blessing you in your faithfulness. 
Also, politics is virtually omnipresent. It is in BSF, TT and, even your household.

From: Judy Taylor 

I see a connection between the rcc and corporations but then I do not think the rcc in any way reflects the KofG
It is political and the antithesis of all that is good, pure, and holy. Jesus said we are to have one Lord and the
rest of us are brethren. You see a connection because you are so into the teachings of the rcc church fathers
but this is the teaching of the Nicolaitians that Jesus hates. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:17:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Iz has quoted him on TT and, more than once. If you do not see the connection between corporations and the kingdom of God then, I rest my case vis a vis platonism. (ask Christine as she is in UofF). Now, there would be an interesting conversation: Christine and David watching The Corporation together. . 

From: Judy Taylor 

Iz respects DW in the Lord as a "godly man" who walks in love and she may request his input but I've not seen her quoting him or sitting at his feet. What do corporations have to do with the KofG? They work on an entirely other principle. In fact corporations are based on the evolutionary principle with the survival of the fittest... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:24:45 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. For those wishing to put 'feet' to their faith, I'd recommend a documentary entitled 'The Corporation'. It may be rented from BB. It demonstrates that of which I speak.

From: Judy Taylor 

Last time I checked Lance Dallas Willard was not sitting on the throne. Capitalism is by nature consumerist; is
Canada a capitalist nature by any chance? I know Australia is and it is every bit as bad, maybe worse in some
ways. You know the old saying "ppl who live in glass houses?" Australia is not "religious" at all, in fact it is
basically secular as is your country from what I've heard. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:14:26 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

You, collectively, are being judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge you.

From: Judy Taylor 

Would you rather have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you be so sure that God is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is not the time of Iraq's visitation? Through history God has always used one nation to judge another. Yes, the US will be judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 

From: ShieldsFamily 


FYI, Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used to bring America more under the rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir

Your last sentence is that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to lunch.








		Yahoo! Mail 
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour

Re: [TruthTalk] What is sin

methinks you are too opinionated about what you are unfamiliar with 
NOoo

Gotta 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








Please describe for me the hierarchy on TT? I know you will call DM a pope but who are the cardinals,
bishops, etc? BSF may have a board but there is no religious hierarchy as in rcc (Magisterium) and they do 
not push their own peculiar doctrine; BSF encouragesBible Study and reliance on the Holy Spirit. Lance
methinks you are too opinionated about what you are unfamiliar with ... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:43:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Thanks for the early morning smile. It matters that you do not 'see' however, God is blessing you in your faithfulness. 
Also, politics is virtually omnipresent. It is in BSF, TT and, even your household.

From: Judy Taylor 

I see a connection between the rcc and corporations but then I do not think the rcc in any way reflects the KofG
It is political and the antithesis of all that is good, pure, and holy. Jesus said we are to have one Lord and the
rest of us are brethren. You see a connection because you are so into the teachings of the rcc church fathers
but this is the teaching of the Nicolaitians that Jesus hates. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:17:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Iz has quoted him on TT and, more than once. If you do not see the connection between corporations and the kingdom of God then, I rest my case vis a vis platonism. (ask Christine as she is in UofF). Now, there would be an interesting conversation: Christine and David watching The Corporation together. . 

From: Judy Taylor 

Iz respects DW in the Lord as a "godly man" who walks in love and she may request his input but I've not seen her quoting him or sitting at his feet. What do corporations have to do with the KofG? They work on an entirely other principle. In fact corporations are based on the evolutionary principle with the survival of the fittest... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:24:45 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. For those wishing to put 'feet' to their faith, I'd recommend a documentary entitled 'The Corporation'. It may be rented from BB. It demonstrates that of which I speak.

From: Judy Taylor 

Last time I checked Lance Dallas Willard was not sitting on the throne. Capitalism is by nature consumerist; is
Canada a capitalist nature by any chance? I know Australia is and it is every bit as bad, maybe worse in some
ways. You know the old saying "ppl who live in glass houses?" Australia is not "religious" at all, in fact it is
basically secular as is your country from what I've heard. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:14:26 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

You, collectively, are being judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge you.

From: Judy Taylor 

Would you rather have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you be so sure that God is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is not the time of Iraq's visitation? Through history God has always used one nation to judge another. Yes, the US will be judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 

From: ShieldsFamily 


FYI, Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used to bring America more under the rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir

Your last sentence is that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to lunch.








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Re: [TruthTalk] What is sin

methinks you are too opinionated about what you are unfamiliar with 
NOoo
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








Please describe for me the hierarchy on TT? I know you will call DM a pope but who are the cardinals,
bishops, etc? BSF may have a board but there is no religious hierarchy as in rcc (Magisterium) and they do 
not push their own peculiar doctrine; BSF encouragesBible Study and reliance on the Holy Spirit. Lance
methinks you are too opinionated about what you are unfamiliar with ... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:43:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Thanks for the early morning smile. It matters that you do not 'see' however, God is blessing you in your faithfulness. 
Also, politics is virtually omnipresent. It is in BSF, TT and, even your household.

From: Judy Taylor 

I see a connection between the rcc and corporations but then I do not think the rcc in any way reflects the KofG
It is political and the antithesis of all that is good, pure, and holy. Jesus said we are to have one Lord and the
rest of us are brethren. You see a connection because you are so into the teachings of the rcc church fathers
but this is the teaching of the Nicolaitians that Jesus hates. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:17:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Iz has quoted him on TT and, more than once. If you do not see the connection between corporations and the kingdom of God then, I rest my case vis a vis platonism. (ask Christine as she is in UofF). Now, there would be an interesting conversation: Christine and David watching The Corporation together. . 

From: Judy Taylor 

Iz respects DW in the Lord as a "godly man" who walks in love and she may request his input but I've not seen her quoting him or sitting at his feet. What do corporations have to do with the KofG? They work on an entirely other principle. In fact corporations are based on the evolutionary principle with the survival of the fittest... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:24:45 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. For those wishing to put 'feet' to their faith, I'd recommend a documentary entitled 'The Corporation'. It may be rented from BB. It demonstrates that of which I speak.

From: Judy Taylor 

Last time I checked Lance Dallas Willard was not sitting on the throne. Capitalism is by nature consumerist; is
Canada a capitalist nature by any chance? I know Australia is and it is every bit as bad, maybe worse in some
ways. You know the old saying "ppl who live in glass houses?" Australia is not "religious" at all, in fact it is
basically secular as is your country from what I've heard. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:14:26 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

You, collectively, are being judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge you.

From: Judy Taylor 

Would you rather have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you be so sure that God is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is not the time of Iraq's visitation? Through history God has always used one nation to judge another. Yes, the US will be judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 

From: ShieldsFamily 


FYI, Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used to bring America more under the rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir

Your last sentence is that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to lunch.








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Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more.

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

He should exhibit epistemological humility. 

HUME do you think you are?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I continually 'stone' DM, as you put it, because he is in leadership. He should exhibit epistemological humility. He should operate with open structures. He should know what ongoing learning is. He is yet a babe but, one can get by on milk I suppose. I'll bet TD hasn't read Dallas Willard.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 24, 2005 06:31
Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

Are you claiming that the fact that DM is detail oriented is what ran B,CD off? The "accuser" is back with a
vengeance and he just lovesto play the blame game on TT. Of course IYO Bill et. al. are blameless.? My 
daughter teaches second grade and what she reports sounds nothing at all like DM. Why do you continually 
verbally stone David Miller and now his daughter? For ppl who profess and are so caught up in God's love 
this kind of behavior is inexcusable. Remember love covers the multitude of sin so even if he were at fault 
your behaviorcondemns you rememberwe reap according to how we sow- jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:38:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
When you're right...Sad ain't it?

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In you statment below, you initiate your "discussion" with falsehood -- the claim that I am confused and you are not. Grade school combat tactics. Just plain silly. Why did Bill leave -- and probably Caroline and Debbie? They got of the tactic "win at all costs." You , especially, have potential, what with your eduational backgroudn (PhD and all). But you argue like a school kid. "Here's the probelm, John -- I am better than you." "Aaahh, no you're not ?" "YES I AM AM !!!' " No you're not." "Yes I am too." 

See the second grade tactic.? David says "Oh, now I see the crux of the matter: I follow the Bible andJohn doe not." Great response. Perhaps intellectually challenging to some in your camp, but it is a response that avoids the conflict, builds you up in your own eyes (and Izzy's -- she will now say that I was defeat simply because you said I was confused.)

InP3, you argue that you are in the apostles teaching and I am not. You do not teachjustification apart from obedience to law. You do not teach Christ as a substitute for in terms of faith and righteousness. You do not believe the law to be a "burden" although Peter felt this way. You think hell in somewhere near Compton.You do not know the fdifference between the old sacrifices and the new. You consider yourself an apostles on a par with Paul and Peter !!! You tout the rationalism of your thinking and call it enlightenment. I could go on - or would you prefer discussing the issue?

Dinner time. Look for Post II in this series, coming to your house in the near future.

JD 

What denominational association do you maintain and/orWhat denominational association is the church you now attend? Your answer to these questions has a lot to do with how I respond to this post. You know my afflication. What is yours?

JD

-Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:27:07 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

David Miller wrote:
 John 20:22-23
 (22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them,
 and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
 (23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto
 them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

John wrote:
 You are not included in this; neither am I.
 I see the apostles as having a very different relationship
 with the Christ than anyone else.

P 3This is the crux of our difference then:  doubt and unbelief concerning the 
reality of the kingdom of God.  I abide in the apostles' doctrine and 
believe that all that they were instructed in by Jesus the Christ applies to 
everyone who believes in Jesus Christ.  Jesus told the apostles:

Matthew 28:19-20
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of 
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: 
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Paul said:

Philippians 3:17
(17) Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as 
ye have us for an ensample.

Concerning the gift of the Holy Ghost that Jesus connected with the 
retaining or remitting of sins in John 20:22-23, Peter said:

Acts 2:38-39
(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in 
the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the 
gift of the Holy Ghost.
(39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE 
AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Do you speak in tongues, John?  Just how much of the Bible

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

That warrants a genuine 'smiley'. Go to schood did
ya?

- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: May 24, 2005 08:59
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
Fond Farewells- Salvation

He should exhibit epistemological humility.

HUME do you think you are?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

I continually 'stone' DM, as you put it,
because he is in leadership. He should exhibit epistemological humility. He
should operate with open structures. He should know what ongoing learning
is. He is yet a babe but, one can get by on milk I suppose. I'll bet TD
hasn't read Dallas Willard.

- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: May 24, 2005 06:31
Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond
Farewells- Salvation

Are you claiming that the fact that DM is detail
oriented is what ran B,CD off? The "accuser" is back with
a
vengeance and he just lovesto play the blame game on TT. Of course IYO Bill et.
al. are blameless.? My
daughter teaches second grade and what she reports sounds nothing at all like DM. Why do
you continually
verbally stone David Miller and now his daughter? For ppl who profess and are so caught up
in God's love
this kind of behavior is inexcusable.
Remember love covers the multitude of sin so
even if he were at fault
your behaviorcondemns you
rememberwe reap according to how we
sow- jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:38:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
When you're right...Sad ain't
it?

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

In you statment below, you initiate
your "discussion" with falsehood -- the claim that I am
confused and you are not. Grade school combat
tactics. Just plain silly. Why did Bill leave
-- and probably Caroline and Debbie? They got of the tactic "win
at all costs." You , especially, have potential, what
with your eduational backgroudn (PhD and all). But
you argue like a school kid. "Here's the probelm,
John -- I am better than you." "Aaahh, no
you're not ?" "YES I AM AM !!!' " No you're
not." "Yes I am too."

See the second grade tactic.?
David says "Oh, now I see the crux of the matter: I follow
the Bible andJohn doe not." Great
response. Perhaps intellectually challenging to some in
your camp, but it is a response that avoids the conflict,
builds you up in your own eyes (and Izzy's --
she will now say that I was defeat simply because you said I was
confused.)

InP3, you argue that you
are in the apostles teaching and I am not. You do not
teachjustification apart from obedience to law. You
do not teach Christ as a substitute for in terms of faith and
righteousness. You do not believe the law to be a "burden"
although Peter felt this way. You think hell in somewhere near
Compton.You do not know the fdifference between the old
sacrifices and the new. You consider yourself an apostles on a
par with Paul and Peter !!! You tout the rationalism of
your thinking and call it enlightenment. I could go
on - or would you prefer
discussing the issue?

Dinner time. Look for
Post II in this series, coming to your house in the near
future.

What denominational association do you maintain and/orWhat
denominational association is the church you now attend? Your answer
to these questions has a lot to do with how I respond to this
post. You know my afflication. What is
yours?

-Original Message-From: David
Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:27:07
-0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

John wrote:
You are not included in this; neither am I.
I see the apostles as having a very different relationship
with the Christ than anyone else.

P 3This is the crux of our

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] What is sin

Surprise me and, I'll agree.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: May 24, 2005 08:57
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin

  methinks you are too opinionated about what 
  you are unfamiliar with 
  NOoo

  Gotta 
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:

Please describe for me the hierarchy on TT? I know 
you will call DM a pope but who are the cardinals,
bishops, etc? BSF may have a board but there 
is no religious hierarchy as in rcc (Magisterium) and they do 
not push their own 
peculiar doctrine; BSF encouragesBible Study and reliance on the Holy 
Spirit. Lance
methinks you are too opinionated about what you are unfamiliar with ... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:43:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Thanks for the early morning smile. It 
  matters that you do not 'see' however, God is blessing you in your 
  faithfulness. 
  Also, politics is virtually omnipresent. It 
  is in BSF, TT and, even your household.

From: Judy 
Taylor 

I see a connection between the rcc and 
corporations but then I do not think the rcc in any way reflects the 
KofG
It is political and the antithesis of all that 
is good, pure, and holy. Jesus said we are to have one Lord and 
the
rest of us are brethren. You see a 
connection because you are so into the teachings of the rcc church 
fathers
but this is the teaching of the Nicolaitians 
that Jesus hates. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:17:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Iz has quoted him on TT and, more than 
  once. If you do not see the connection between corporations and the 
  kingdom of God then, I rest my case vis a vis platonism. (ask 
  Christine as she is in UofF). Now, there would be an interesting 
  conversation: Christine and David watching The Corporation together. . 

From: Judy 
Taylor 

Iz respects DW in the Lord as a "godly man" 
who walks in love and she may request his input but I've not seen 
her quoting him or sitting at his feet. What do corporations 
have to do with the KofG? They work on an entirely other 
principle. In fact corporations are based on the evolutionary 
principle with the survival of the fittest... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:24:45 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. For those 
  wishing to put 'feet' to their faith, I'd recommend a documentary 
  entitled 'The Corporation'. It may be rented from BB. It 
  demonstrates that of which I speak.

From: Judy Taylor 

Last time I checked Lance Dallas 
Willard was not sitting on the throne. Capitalism is by 
nature consumerist; is
Canada a capitalist nature by any 
chance? I know Australia is and it is every bit as bad, 
maybe worse in some
ways. You know the old saying 
"ppl who live in glass houses?" Australia is not 
"religious" at all, in fact it is
basically secular as is your country 
from what I've heard. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:14:26 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  You, collectively, are being 
  judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom 
  building (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic 
  approach to what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be 
  using 'them' to judge you.

From: Judy Taylor 

Would you rather have mid east 
cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and 
insanity. Also how can you be so sure that God is not involved with what is 
happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is not 
the time of Iraq's 
visitation? Through history God has always used one 
nation to judge another. Yes, the US will be 
judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - 
Not Lance's. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  'If' is the

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

Gordon Clark Read a book in the
last 30 years? Next you'll be quotin; R. J. Rushdooney to me.

- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: May 24, 2005 08:54
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
Fond Farewells- Salvation

LOL

CMONDM pick up some HUMILITY like Lance has.

Gordon Clark warned: "If man can know nothing truly, man can
truly know nothing. We cannot know that the Bible is the Word of God, that
Christ died for our sin, or that Christ is alive today at the right hand of
the Father. Unless knowledge is possible, Christianity is non-sensical, for it
claims to be knowledge. What is at stake in the twentieth century is not
simply a single doctrine, such as the Virgin Birth, or the existence of Hell,
as important as those doctrines may be, but the whole of Christianity itself.
If knowledge is not possible to man, it is worse
than silly to argue points of doctrine--it is
insane."Lance Muir
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I continually 'stone' DM, as you put it,
because he is in leadership. He should exhibit epistemological humility. He
should operate with open structures. He should know what ongoing learning
is. He is yet a babe but, one can get by on milk I suppose. I'll bet TD
hasn't read Dallas Willard.

- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: May 24, 2005 06:31
Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond
Farewells- Salvation

Are you claiming that the fact that DM is detail
oriented is what ran B,CD off? The "accuser" is back with
a
vengeance and he just lovesto play the blame game on TT. Of course IYO Bill et.
al. are blameless.? My
daughter teaches second grade and what she reports sounds nothing at all like DM. Why do
you continually
verbally stone David Miller and now his daughter? For ppl who profess and are so caught up
in God's love
this kind of behavior is inexcusable.
Remember love covers the multitude of sin so
even if he were at fault
your behaviorcondemns you
rememberwe reap according to how we
sow- jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:38:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
When you're right...Sad ain't
it?

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

In you statment below, you initiate
your "discussion" with falsehood -- the claim that I am
confused and you are not. Grade school combat
tactics. Just plain silly. Why did Bill leave
-- and probably Caroline and Debbie? They got of the tactic "win
at all costs." You , especially, have potential, what
with your eduational backgroudn (PhD and all). But
you argue like a school kid. "Here's the probelm,
John -- I am better than you." "Aaahh, no
you're not ?" "YES I AM AM !!!' " No you're
not." "Yes I am too."

See the second grade tactic.?
David says "Oh, now I see the crux of the matter: I follow
the Bible andJohn doe not." Great
response. Perhaps intellectually challenging to some in
your camp, but it is a response that avoids the conflict,
builds you up in your own eyes (and Izzy's --
she will now say that I was defeat simply because you said I was
confused.)

InP3, you argue that you
are in the apostles teaching and I am not. You do not
teachjustification apart from obedience to law. You
do not teach Christ as a substitute for in terms of faith and
righteousness. You do not believe the law to be a "burden"
although Peter felt this way. You think hell in somewhere near
Compton.You do not know the fdifference between the old
sacrifices and the new. You consider yourself an apostles on a
par with Paul and Peter !!! You tout the rationalism of
your thinking and call it enlightenment. I could go
on - or would you prefer
discussing the issue?

Dinner time. Look for
Post II in this series, coming to your house in the near
future.

What denominational association do you maintain and/orWhat
denominational association is the church you now attend? Your answer
to these questions has a lot to do with how I respond to this
post. You know my afflication. What is
yours?

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin




When China reclaims Taiwan and, y'all run for the 
hills then CWBASP.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 08:45
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: 
  [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin
  
  Lance prays for the day that China will become a super 
  power.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  







National debt anyone? They, it'd seem own you. 
The nations to watch are China  India. Apart from it's weaponry, the 
good old US of A pretty much produces nothing. Sorry, agriculture is still a 
factor, globally.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 23, 2005 22:31
  Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] 
  Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin
  
  
  Ohhh, 
  that! Yup. Thats why we now own France, Japan, and 
  most of the rest of the world. 
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, May 23, 2005 10:41 
  AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: 
  [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  
  Why would we be? We are not 
  invading countries to build an empire.
  

- Original Message - 


From: ShieldsFamily 


To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Sent: May 
23, 2005 11:57

Subject: 
[Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
sin


Im sure you 
and Canada are not being judged 
for anything at all. How lovely for you. 
Izzy





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:14 
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: 
[Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
sin


You, collectively, are being 
judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see 
Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an 
embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge 
you.

  
  - Original Message 
  - 
  
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  
  
  To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  
  Cc: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  
  Sent: 
  May 23, 2005 10:12
  
  Subject: 
  [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  
  
  Would you rather 
  have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and 
  insanity. Also how can you be
  
  so sure that God 
  is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How are you 
  so sure it is not the time
  
  of Iraq's visitation? 
  Through history God has always used one nation to judge another. 
  Yes, the US will 
  be
  
  judged also but - 
  IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. 
  jt
  
  
  
  On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance 
  Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

'If' is the operative 
wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. 
Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops 
near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east 
aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 


  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  
  FYI, 
  Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He 
  rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB 
  can be used to bring America more under the 
  rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a 
  good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, 
  including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
  Muir
  
  Your last sentence is 
  that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin




Been saying the Lord would return since He 
ascended.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 08:43
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: 
  [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin
  
  Been saying that since the 70's at least.Lance Muir 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  

Mr. Rogers says (from the neighborhood in the 
sky) 'hey kids, can we say seven trillion, nine hundred and thirty-seven 
billion?' Bankruptcy awaits.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 23, 2005 16:21
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] 
  Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin
  
  First you must have one.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  







Why would we be? We are not invading 
countries to build an empire.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 23, 2005 11:57
  Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: 
  [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin
  
  
  Im sure you 
  and Canada are not being judged 
  for anything at all. How lovely for you. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
  MuirSent: Monday, 
  May 23, 2005 9:14 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
  RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  
  You, collectively, are 
  being judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building 
  (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should 
  be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge 
  you.
  

- Original Message 
- 

From: 
Judy Taylor 


To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Cc: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Sent: 
May 23, 2005 10:12

Subject: 
[Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
sin



Would you 
rather have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and 
insanity. Also how can you 
be

so sure that 
God is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How 
are you so sure it is not the 
time

of 
Iraq's visitation? 
Through history God has always used one nation to judge 
another. Yes, the US will 
be

judged also but 
- IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. 
jt



On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance 
Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  'If' is the operative 
  wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. 
  Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant 
  bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle 
  east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than 
  God. 
  

From: ShieldsFamily 



FYI, 
Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If 
He rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. 
If GWB can be used to bring America more under 
the rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is 
a good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, 
including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. 
Izzy





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
Muir

Your last sentence 
is that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a 
kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that 
GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to 
lunch.

[TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

2005-05-24 Thread Charles Perry Locke


Dave,

  Christians consider angels and humans to be two distinct types of created 
beings. Correct me if I am wrong, but don't mormons consider angels to be 
either pre-mortal or post-mortal humans? For example, don't mormons consider 
Michael (the archangel) also to have been a human at one point...was it 
Adam? Hasn't he also been considered to be the mormon god the father? So, 
basically, one being can be spirit, angel, human, or god at various times. 
Am I right on this?


Perry


From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine 
on TT

Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 22:14:44 -0700

DAVEH:Perhaps.Heb 13:1

ShieldsFamily wrote:


Has anyone on TT actually seen an angel? Izzy




--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
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I maintain six email lists...
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Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
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Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
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[TruthTalk] Preach report

2005-05-24 Thread Ruben Israel

Regarding the new California hate crime
laws against homosexuals, well as they say in sports, No harm, and no foul or
as the scripture teaches, where sin abounds, grace abounds the more. Sunday was the first sodomite parade in
California
since our governor Arnold signed this law (effected 2005) but it was business as
usual. For 22 years this event has
pranced in Long
Beach. With
the Pacific Ocean behind us (as our back drop)
and the sodomites parading in front of us, we were able to warn the masses,
exhort the mayor and other political vote whores with banners and mega
horns. We had four police officers
around us and two parade monitors that stopped people from throwing objects at
us and dropping their pants in front of us. This is the only parade where one could
see little purple sexually transmitted diseases dancing to music carrying signs
to wear protection, while they toss out condoms to the cheering crowd.
To be filed under, Gods Will: I had
brought an extra banner and so did another brother and when the preaching
started this young man walked his wife over to us (she was blind) and stood
behind the police barricades with us and wanted to hold banners and stand with
us for God. They both held
banners for about two hours and assisted to help us testify at this event. Another guy was walking home from work
and noticed us, so he came by talking and stayed watching a witnessing to those
around us.
Once again the public preaching provoked
many one on one conversations and our new guy that has been joining us since New
Years Eve in Vegas, commented that never saw anything like this in his whole
life. It is one thing to preach
against sodomy, or to witness to a sodomite, but another it is another world to
see how these people act when they have an event. Each group, car, float stopped in front
of us to yell, flip us off, or do some kind of kiss in, so at the end of the day
God Word was heralded on the streets.
After the parade my wife picked us up (with no plates on our vehicle) as
a Long Beach
police car escorted us out a few blocks from the grid. On the way home I thought out loud to
everyone, on how many of those sodomites that we preacher to 22 years ago at
this event are still alive today?
What do you think their
message would be..? (clue) see Luke 16:28.
From the WATCHTOWER: Ruben Israel

RIDDLE:
Why do the sodomites march next to the
ocean?Maybe
to see a HUMP BACK wha

Re: [TruthTalk] What is sin

2005-05-24 Thread Dave Hansen





DAVEH: Just how old are you, Lance!!!  =-O 

Lance Muir wrote:

  
  
  Been saying the Lord would return
since He ascended.


-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

Could you not expand on 'somewhat close'?

- Original Message - 
From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 24, 2005 09:38
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic
Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

 Charles Perry Locke wrote:

  Dave,

Christians consider angels and humans to be two distinct types of
  created beings.

 DAVEH:  Yes, I understand that.  Yet, it seems Paul is telling us that
 it is difficult (if not impossible) to tell us (mortals) apart from
 angels.

  Correct me if I am wrong, but don't mormons consider angels to be
  either pre-mortal or post-mortal humans? For example, don't mormons
  consider Michael (the archangel) also to have been a human at one
  point...was it Adam? Hasn't he also been considered to be the mormon
  god the father? So, basically, one being can be spirit, angel, human,
  or god at various times. Am I right on this?

 DAVEH:  You are somewhat close.

  Perry

 -- 
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain six email lists...
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 STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

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 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
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Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] What is sin




I am the 2,000 year old man (Mel 
Brooks)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dave Hansen 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 09:40
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  DAVEH: Just how old are you, 
  Lance!!! =-O 
  Lance Muir wrote: 
  

Been saying the Lord would return since He 
ascended.-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

2005-05-24 Thread Dave Hansen

DAVEH:  That would be an affront to Perry.  Elaborating would be the 
equivalent of teaching LDS theology on TT, an activity Perry abhors.


Lance Muir wrote:


Could you not expand on 'somewhat close'?

 


Charles Perry Locke wrote:

   


Dave,

 Christians consider angels and humans to be two distinct types of
created beings.
 


DAVEH:  Yes, I understand that.  Yet, it seems Paul is telling us that
it is difficult (if not impossible) to tell us (mortals) apart from
angels.

   


Correct me if I am wrong, but don't mormons consider angels to be
either pre-mortal or post-mortal humans? For example, don't mormons
consider Michael (the archangel) also to have been a human at one
point...was it Adam? Hasn't he also been considered to be the mormon
god the father? So, basically, one being can be spirit, angel, human,
or god at various times. Am I right on this?
 


DAVEH:  You are somewhat close.

   


Perry
 



--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin




I'm not sure what everyone believes re "rapture" but I 
don't believe you will get an argument about
the approaching bad/hard times. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 08:28:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  'Sure' as in certain, I'm not. However, the 
  handwriting is on the wall. Ignore it at your own peril. I believe the 
  'rapture' business to be entirely hockum but I do believe that bad times are 
  on the way for the 'lower 48' (the upper 10 as well)
  
From: Judy Taylor 

I wouldn't be so sure Lance; the powers of darkness 
can cause one to believe that black is white and sour
is sweet. So I don't find ppl who are as sure as 
youthat you know all the details of international politics, 

trade, etc. to be truly credible. Many of us 
who live in the lower 48have an entirely other 
perspective
even without any rose coloured glasses. 
jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 07:19:31 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 

Just so you know, I do know the difference 
between up/down and black/white. Methinks you over generalize.

  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

Are you angry withthe US or GWB 
Lance? I've lived in Canada twice and nothing has changed, still 
the
old inferiority complex and finding things to 
be critical of over the border. BTW a critical spirit is not from 
God, why not be 
grateful for the good things? The US isn't all bad, if it were ppl 
would not be risking their lives to come here 
- neither is Canada all good. If we looked under the surface we would 
find the same kind of corruption on a smaller 
scale - maybe even worse. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:44:00 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
National debt anyone? They, it'd seem own 
you. The nations to watch are China  India. Apart from it's 
weaponry, the good old US of A pretty much produces nothing. Sorry, 
agriculture is still a factor, globally.

  
From: ShieldsFamily 
Ohhh, 
that! Yup. Thats why we now own France, Japan, and most of the 
rest of the world. 




Lance Muir 
writes:Why would we be? We are 
not invading countries to build an 
empire.

  
  
  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Im sure 
  you and Canada are not being 
  judged for anything at all. How lovely for you. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  Lance 
  MuirYou, collectively, are 
  being judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom 
  building (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach 
  to what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' 
  to judge you.
  



From: Judy Taylor 












Would you 
rather have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence 
and insanity. Also how can you 
be

so sure 
that God is not involved with what is happening in the middle 
east. How are you so sure it is not the 
time

of 
Iraq's 
visitation? Through history God has always used one nation 
to judge another. Yes, the US will 
be

judged also 
but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. 
jt



[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  'If' is the 
  operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't 
  looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', 
  (read 'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much 
  of the middle east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have 
  his ear more than God. 
  
  

From: ShieldsFamily 



FYI, 
Lance, the Kingdom is the

Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

2005-05-24 Thread Charles Perry Locke


Dave,

  If I am somewhat close, can you tell me the part I am wrong about? You 
always say if I want to know what mormons believe, ask a mormon...


Perry


From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of 
Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 06:38:17 -0700



Charles Perry Locke wrote:


Dave,

  Christians consider angels and humans to be two distinct types of 
created beings.


DAVEH:  Yes, I understand that.  Yet, it seems Paul is telling us that it 
is difficult (if not impossible) to tell us (mortals) apart from angels.


Correct me if I am wrong, but don't mormons consider angels to be either 
pre-mortal or post-mortal humans? For example, don't mormons consider 
Michael (the archangel) also to have been a human at one point...was it 
Adam? Hasn't he also been considered to be the mormon god the father? So, 
basically, one being can be spirit, angel, human, or god at various times. 
Am I right on this?


DAVEH:  You are somewhat close.



Perry



--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
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--
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If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

Write me privately then. I'd actually like to know beyond 'close'. If I
convert I'll keep it a secret.

- Original Message - 
From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 24, 2005 09:55
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses
Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

 DAVEH:  That would be an affront to Perry.  Elaborating would be the
 equivalent of teaching LDS theology on TT, an activity Perry abhors.

 Lance Muir wrote:

 Could you not expand on 'somewhat close'?

 Charles Perry Locke wrote:

 Dave,

   Christians consider angels and humans to be two distinct types of
 created beings.

 DAVEH:  Yes, I understand that.  Yet, it seems Paul is telling us that
 it is difficult (if not impossible) to tell us (mortals) apart from
 angels.

 Correct me if I am wrong, but don't mormons consider angels to be
 either pre-mortal or post-mortal humans? For example, don't mormons
 consider Michael (the archangel) also to have been a human at one
 point...was it Adam? Hasn't he also been considered to be the mormon
 god the father? So, basically, one being can be spirit, angel, human,
 or god at various times. Am I right on this?

 DAVEH:  You are somewhat close.

 Perry

 -- 
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain six email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
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http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
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Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin

Judy it might be best to rec a book to Lance, just as long as it is not THE BOOK.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








The list is supplied from some 'international' headquarters.I've recognized all of the authors and titles.Like I said, they are all quite good.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 24, 2005 08:00
Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin

Maybe they are more liberal in Canada, the one I attend does not allow promoting books, tapes, videos, etc.
We are not to mention our denominations either although Hqtrs says there are at least 241 different ones
represented. We were given a magazine with suggested reading and study for the summer but they do not
push it. Even the special classes (I attended two this year) do not promote anything other than studying God's
Word and putting it into practice. If you have heard anything else then it must be peculiar to Canada. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 07:16:15 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

'they (BSF) do not push their own peculiar doctrine'. Really!? They send me the recommended reading lists every time a new one is 'created'. Whatever I don't know, Jt, I do know books. Sorry, but they do push their own peculiar (which, in reality, ain't so 'peculiar'. It's quite good) doctrine. I guess you hadn't noticed. That's OK.

From: Judy Taylor 

Please describe for me the hierarchy on TT? I know you will call DM a pope but who are the cardinals,
bishops, etc? BSF may have a board but there is no religious hierarchy as in rcc (Magisterium) and they do 
not push their own peculiar doctrine; BSF encouragesBible Study and reliance on the Holy Spirit. Lance
methinks you are too opinionated about what you are unfamiliar with ... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:43:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Thanks for the early morning smile. It matters that you do not 'see' however, God is blessing you in your faithfulness. 
Also, politics is virtually omnipresent. It is in BSF, TT and, even your household.

From: Judy Taylor 

I see a connection between the rcc and corporations but then I do not think the rcc in any way reflects the KofG
It is political and the antithesis of all that is good, pure, and holy. Jesus said we are to have one Lord and the
rest of us are brethren. You see a connection because you are so into the teachings of the rcc church fathers
but this is the teaching of the Nicolaitians that Jesus hates. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:17:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Iz has quoted him on TT and, more than once. If you do not see the connection between corporations and the kingdom of God then, I rest my case vis a vis platonism. (ask Christine as she is in UofF). Now, there would be an interesting conversation: Christine and David watching The Corporation together. . 

From: Judy Taylor 

Iz respects DW in the Lord as a "godly man" who walks in love and she may request his input but I've not seen her quoting him or sitting at his feet. What do corporations have to do with the KofG? They work on an entirely other principle. In fact corporations are based on the evolutionary principle with the survival of the fittest... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:24:45 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. For those wishing to put 'feet' to their faith, I'd recommend a documentary entitled 'The Corporation'. It may be rented from BB. It demonstrates that of which I speak.

From: Judy Taylor 

Last time I checked Lance Dallas Willard was not sitting on the throne. Capitalism is by nature consumerist; is
Canada a capitalist nature by any chance? I know Australia is and it is every bit as bad, maybe worse in some
ways. You know the old saying "ppl who live in glass houses?" Australia is not "religious" at all, in fact it is
basically secular as is your country from what I've heard. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:14:26 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

You, collectively, are being judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge you.

From: Judy Taylor 

Would you rather have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you be so sure that God is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is not the time of Iraq's visitation? Through history God has always used one nation to judge another. Yes, the US will be judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. jt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God.

Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

2005-05-24 Thread Christine Miller

Yes, I am interested as well. Is this beleif found in
the BoM? 

Blessings,

Christine

--- Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Actually, the problem I have is not with Dave
 stating mormon beliefs, 
 especially when asked. It is his teaching mormon
 doctrines, but denying that 
 he is doing so. I am for openest...but honesty, too.
 
 From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk]
 mormon angels. was: Dave 
 uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT
 Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 10:08:28 -0400
 
 Write me privately then. I'd actually like to know
 beyond 'close'. If I
 convert I'll keep it a secret.
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: May 24, 2005 09:55
 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon
 angels. was: Dave uses
 Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT
 
 
   DAVEH:  That would be an affront to Perry. 
 Elaborating would be the
   equivalent of teaching LDS theology on TT, an
 activity Perry abhors.
  
   Lance Muir wrote:
  
   Could you not expand on 'somewhat close'?
   
   
   
   Charles Perry Locke wrote:
   
   
   
   Dave,
   
 Christians consider angels and humans to be
 two distinct types of
   created beings.
   
   
   DAVEH:  Yes, I understand that.  Yet, it seems
 Paul is telling us that
   it is difficult (if not impossible) to tell us
 (mortals) apart from
   angels.
   
   
   
   Correct me if I am wrong, but don't mormons
 consider angels to be
   either pre-mortal or post-mortal humans? For
 example, don't mormons
   consider Michael (the archangel) also to have
 been a human at one
   point...was it Adam? Hasn't he also been
 considered to be the mormon
   god the father? So, basically, one being can
 be spirit, angel, human,
   or god at various times. Am I right on this?
   
   
   DAVEH:  You are somewhat close.
   
   
   
   Perry
   
   
  
   --
   ~~~
   Dave Hansen
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   http://www.langlitz.com
   ~~~
   If you wish to receive
   things I find interesting,
   I maintain six email lists...
   JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
   STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
  
  
   --
   Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned
 with salt, that you may
 know how you ought to answer every man. 
 (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org
  
   If you do not want to receive posts from this
 list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be
 unsubscribed.  If you have a
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an
 e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be
 subscribed.
 
 
 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned
 with salt, that you may 
 know how you ought to answer every man. 
 (Colossians 4:6) 
 http://www.InnGlory.org
 
 If you do not want to receive posts from this list,
 send an email to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be
 unsubscribed.  If you have a 
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an
 e-mail to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be
 subscribed.
 
 
 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with
 salt, that you may know how you ought to answer
 every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org
 
 If you do not want to receive posts from this list,
 send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you
 will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who
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 subscribed.
 




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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
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Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

Apparently there exists a 'collective' anticipation of your answer.

- Original Message - 
From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 24, 2005 10:52
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic
Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

 Yes, I am interested as well. Is this beleif found in
 the BoM?

 Blessings,

 Christine

 --- Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Actually, the problem I have is not with Dave
  stating mormon beliefs,
  especially when asked. It is his teaching mormon
  doctrines, but denying that
  he is doing so. I am for openest...but honesty, too.

  From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk]
  mormon angels. was: Dave
  uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT
  Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 10:08:28 -0400

  Write me privately then. I'd actually like to know
  beyond 'close'. If I
  convert I'll keep it a secret.

  - Original Message -
  From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: May 24, 2005 09:55
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon
  angels. was: Dave uses
  Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

DAVEH:  That would be an affront to Perry.
  Elaborating would be the
equivalent of teaching LDS theology on TT, an
  activity Perry abhors.

Lance Muir wrote:

Could you not expand on 'somewhat close'?

Charles Perry Locke wrote:

Dave,

  Christians consider angels and humans to be
  two distinct types of
created beings.

DAVEH:  Yes, I understand that.  Yet, it seems
  Paul is telling us that
it is difficult (if not impossible) to tell us
  (mortals) apart from
angels.

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't mormons
  consider angels to be
either pre-mortal or post-mortal humans? For
  example, don't mormons
consider Michael (the archangel) also to have
  been a human at one
point...was it Adam? Hasn't he also been
  considered to be the mormon
god the father? So, basically, one being can
  be spirit, angel, human,
or god at various times. Am I right on this?

DAVEH:  You are somewhat close.

Perry

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned
  with salt, that you may
  know how you ought to answer every man.
  (Colossians 4:6)
  http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this
  list, send an email to
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be
  unsubscribed.  If you have a
  friend who wants to join, tell him to send an
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  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be
  subscribed.

  --
  Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned
  with salt, that you may
  know how you ought to answer every man.
  (Colossians 4:6)
  http://www.InnGlory.org

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  --
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  every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
  http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk]Criminalizing Christianity

How 'bout 'peak oil'?

- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: May 24, 2005 10:08
Subject: [Bulk] Re:
[TruthTalk]Criminalizing Christianity

CAN ANYBODY ELSE READ THE WRITING ON THE WALL??

Dan 5:25 And this is the writing that was written,
MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/312245p-266952c.htmlCollege
department head, Shortell has written in an online academic publication that
the devout "are an ugly, violent lot. In the name of their faith,
these moral retards are running around pointing fingers."
Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Scott Brockie: Read the Interim report detailing the
Ontario Human Rights Commission decision against Scott Brockie which
concluded that his "rights as a Christian were subordinate to those
of homosexuals not to be discriminated against," and that "he must
restrict the practice of Christianity to his home and church, and
not take it with him into the public marketplace," at: http://www.theinterim.com/2001/sept/01religiousfree.html

Harry Hammond: Shaun Tapper called the police and
complained that he felt threatened and that Hammond was inciting people to
attack homosexuals. As he made his speech the fundamentalist Christian was
surrounded by 40 protesters who pelted him with soil and
water. In the furore his 3ft sign fell and hit a protester on the head,
causing a small cut.
The police arrested the preacher. He was fined £300 with £395 costs. The
magistrates ordered that his placard be destroyed.
Did you really think that freedom and democracy would be dismantled by
people who openly declared that they wanted censorship and tyranny?
The new totalitarianism comes robed in righteous outrage, but it
still holds a gag in its hand. http://www.issues-views.com/index.php/sect/24000/article/24037
Kevin
Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen in their manifesto for the "gay"
rights movement, After the Ball: "(In regards to those) who feel
compelled to adhere rigidly to an authoritarian belief structure that
condemns homosexualityour primary objective regarding die-hard
homo-haters of this sort is to cow and silence them."

Stockholm (ENI). A Swedish court has sentenced a pastor belonging to
the Pentecostal movement in Sweden, Ake Green, to a month in prison, under
a law against incitement, after he was found guilty of having
offended homosexuals in a sermon.
The prosecutor in the case, Kjell Yngvesson, justifies the arrest of
Green: "One may have whatever religion one wishes, but this is an attack
on all fronts against homosexuals. Collecting Bible citations on
this topic as he (Green) does makes this hate speech."
Sweden passed its hate speech statute in 2002, explicitly including
"church sermons" as subject to the law's restrictions.

The simple practice of reading biblical texts teaching the
sinfulness of homosexuality is now against the law in Sweden.
Soren Andersson president of Swedish
Federation for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender Rights (RFSL)
"I cannot regard the sentence as an act of interference with
freedom of religion."
Here is the evidence that the logical jump from "hate crimes"
legislation to codes against "hate speech"are small indeed.
YOU ARE THE CRIMINAL HERE!
HOMOsexuality should be considered an acceptable lifestyle or your
going to jail!

http://www.mpbooks.com/bookDetail.asp?isbn=1590524683
http://www.multnomahbooks.com/chapterTerms.asp?isbn=1590524683
http://www.multnomahbooks.com/content/books/1590524683/1590524683-chap.pdf
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Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation




Try me. Dunce though I be, I have perused a book or 
deux over the centuries.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 11:10
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
  [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation
  
  Only you, the truly Elite can read.
  I have a few of his (Rushdooney)books too, in mypersonal 
  library, though something tells me it has few of the books that you sell in 
  the collection.
  Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  

Gordon Clark Read a book in the 
last 30 years? Next you'll be quotin; R. J. Rushdooney to me.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 08:54
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
  [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation
  
  LOL
  
  CMONDM pick up some HUMILITY like Lance has.
  
  Gordon Clark warned: "If man can know nothing truly, man can 
  truly know nothing. We cannot know that the Bible is the Word of God, that 
  Christ died for our sin, or that Christ is alive today at the right hand 
  of the Father. Unless knowledge is possible, Christianity is non-sensical, 
  for it claims to be knowledge. What is at stake in the twentieth century 
  is not simply a single doctrine, such as the Virgin Birth, or the 
  existence of Hell, as important as those doctrines may be, but the whole 
  of Christianity itself. If knowledge is not 
  possible to man, it is worse than silly to argue points of doctrine--it is 
  insane."Lance Muir 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

I continually 'stone' DM, as you put it, 
because he is in leadership. He should exhibit epistemological humility. 
He should operate with open structures. He should know what ongoing 
learning is. He is yet a babe but, one can get by on milk I suppose. 
I'll bet TD hasn't read Dallas Willard.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 06:31
  Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond 
  Farewells- Salvation
  
  
  Are you claiming that the fact that DM is 
  detail oriented is what ran B,CD off? The "accuser" is back 
  with a
  vengeance and he just lovesto play the blame game on TT. Of course IYO Bill 
  et. al. are blameless.? My 
  daughter teaches second grade and 
  what she reports sounds nothing at all like 
  DM. Why do you continually 
  verbally stone David Miller and now 
  his daughter? For ppl who profess and 
  are so caught up in God's love 
  this kind of behavior is inexcusable. 
  Remember love covers the multitude of sin 
  so even if he were at fault 
  your behaviorcondemns you 
  rememberwe reap according to how we 
  sow- jt
  
  
  On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:38:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  When you're right...Sad ain't 
  it?
  

  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  
  
  In you statment below, you 
  initiate your "discussion" with falsehood -- the claim 
  that I am confused and you are not. Grade school 
  combat tactics. Just plain silly. Why did 
  Bill leave -- and probably Caroline and Debbie? They got of 
  the tactic "win at all costs." You , especially, have 
  potential, what with your eduational backgroudn (PhD and 
  all). But you argue like a school kid. 
  "Here's the probelm, John -- I am better than 
  you." "Aaahh, no you're not ?" "YES I AM AM 
  !!!' " No you're not." "Yes I am 
  too." 
  
  
  See the second grade 
  tactic.? David says "Oh, now I see the crux of the 
  matter: I follow the Bible andJohn doe 
  not." Great response. Perhaps 
  intellectually challenging to some in your camp, but it is a 
  response that avoids the conflict, builds you up in your own 
  eyes (and Izzy's -- she will now say that 
  I was defeat simply because you said I was 
  confused.)
  
  InP3, you argue that 
  you are in the apostles teaching and I am not. You do 
  not teachjustification apart from obedience to 
  law. You do not teach Christ as a substitute for in 
  terms of faith and righteousness. You do not believe the law

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation




There was a day when Gordie and eye.well, 
that was then and,..

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 11:14
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
  [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation
  
  "Kant" help but think, you  Mr Clark are 
  diametrically opposed!Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  

Gordon Clark Read a book in the 
last 30 years? Next you'll be quotin; R. J. Rushdooney to me.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 08:54
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
  [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation
  
  LOL
  
  CMONDM pick up some HUMILITY like Lance has.
  
  Gordon Clark warned: "If man can know nothing truly, man can 
  truly know nothing. We cannot know that the Bible is the Word of God, that 
  Christ died for our sin, or that Christ is alive today at the right hand 
  of the Father. Unless knowledge is possible, Christianity is non-sensical, 
  for it claims to be knowledge. What is at stake in the twentieth century 
  is not simply a single doctrine, such as the Virgin Birth, or the 
  existence of Hell, as important as those doctrines may be, but the whole 
  of Christianity itself. If knowledge is not 
  possible to man, it is worse than silly to argue points of doctrine--it is 
  insane."Lance Muir 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

I continually 'stone' DM, as you put it, 
because he is in leadership. He should exhibit epistemological humility. 
He should operate with open structures. He should know what ongoing 
learning is. He is yet a babe but, one can get by on milk I suppose. 
I'll bet TD hasn't read Dallas Willard.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 06:31
  Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond 
  Farewells- Salvation
  
  
  Are you claiming that the fact that DM is 
  detail oriented is what ran B,CD off? The "accuser" is back 
  with a
  vengeance and he just lovesto play the blame game on TT. Of course IYO Bill 
  et. al. are blameless.? My 
  daughter teaches second grade and 
  what she reports sounds nothing at all like 
  DM. Why do you continually 
  verbally stone David Miller and now 
  his daughter? For ppl who profess and 
  are so caught up in God's love 
  this kind of behavior is inexcusable. 
  Remember love covers the multitude of sin 
  so even if he were at fault 
  your behaviorcondemns you 
  rememberwe reap according to how we 
  sow- jt
  
  
  On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:38:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  When you're right...Sad ain't 
  it?
  

  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  
  
  In you statment below, you 
  initiate your "discussion" with falsehood -- the claim 
  that I am confused and you are not. Grade school 
  combat tactics. Just plain silly. Why did 
  Bill leave -- and probably Caroline and Debbie? They got of 
  the tactic "win at all costs." You , especially, have 
  potential, what with your eduational backgroudn (PhD and 
  all). But you argue like a school kid. 
  "Here's the probelm, John -- I am better than 
  you." "Aaahh, no you're not ?" "YES I AM AM 
  !!!' " No you're not." "Yes I am 
  too." 
  
  
  See the second grade 
  tactic.? David says "Oh, now I see the crux of the 
  matter: I follow the Bible andJohn doe 
  not." Great response. Perhaps 
  intellectually challenging to some in your camp, but it is a 
  response that avoids the conflict, builds you up in your own 
  eyes (and Izzy's -- she will now say that 
  I was defeat simply because you said I was 
  confused.)
  
  InP3, you argue that 
  you are in the apostles teaching and I am not. You do 
  not teachjustification apart from obedience to 
  law. You do not teach Christ as a substitute for in 
  terms of faith and righteousness. You do not believe the law 
  to be a "burden" although Peter felt this way. You think 
  hell in somewhere near Compton.You do not

Re: [TruthTalk] Preach report

2005-05-24 Thread knpraise

Street preaching is not all bad. I happen to think that what I see and here in Ruben (over a period of nearly two years) is the best of the SP. That article some gave kudos to, mistaking it for something Kevin wrote and which Kevin corrected - shows a great deal of love and concern on the part of Ruben.

I have ministered to homosexuals off and on over the years.On the sidelines, one on one, some can be very honest. In an event -- well it truly does bring out the worst in many of these people. I do believe their behavior is self destructive to the degree it is entertained. When I say that "homosexuality" is one of 26 listed sins in Romans 1 -- that is not to minimize the sin, but to remind us that it is on a list of sins along with insulting parents and envy. If sin is sin as Judy claims, then envy and arrogance are AS BAD as homosexuality.Matt 7:1ff teaches us against "hypocricy" in judgment. And what is the opposite of "hypocrixy?" Sinlessness ! David might argue this .but , in fact, it is humility. We preac
h to sinners not forgetting that we, ourselves, are the same. The difference? We recognize that our sin to be self destructive and work against it as God gives us strength and knowledge. Ruben is not perfect ..but he preaches anyway. We all do in some way.

I believe the church makes a big mistake when it trys to deal lovingly with the homosexual issue by arguing against the sinfulness of the act of homosexuality. Its heart is in the right place - wanting to the right thing by the homosexual, wanting them included in God's love. If we could get the message that it is ok to be firm on the sinfulness of homosexuality WITHOUT being exclusive - we as The Church would have more influence over the folks who make these kind of decisions. I see little difference between "You are right on your own terms, come on in" and "you are wrong in what you do, but come on in"in terms of expanding the foundries of the family. There is
a difference between the two, of course - one ignores the sinful self destructive nature of the sin and does no favor to the participants. The other says, :Hey, lets work together on those sins that so easilyinclude us, not making eternal excuses but accepting facts as presented and moving to grow up in Christ TOGETHER." We must never forget that a wrathful God IS a wrathful Father. We have been reconciled to Him for the purpose of a better life, real choices, spiritual growth that is productive AND an enemy to the evil that seeks to destroy us. Inclusion IS NOT an act of license .. it is an act of charity.
The Corinthian church was described as "carnal, babes in Christ." Were they still of the flesh? Think "carnal" and answer with the word "yes."
Were they nonetheless alive in the Lord at the same time? As much as any baby is alive, YES. And what do we do with babies. I mean, the world centers around them and, at the same time, they are helpless to deal with it by themselves. So we get our hands in their crap, we are constantly cleaning up after them, feeding, working our lives around them and why? Precisely because they are babes.

If you believe you share in the "Great commission," then you must believe that part of what you are doing in this world is "making disciples." to bring them to the Lord on the streets is not to say that they have been discipled. "Make disciples by baptizing and teaching ..." Teaching takes time. Perhaps this is why Christ limited His work of discipling to the original 12. And after 3-4 years, where were they -- they still had a ways to go.

Rubens ministry below, is the way it is. If he kept his head, did not fight fire with fire (his butt is no pretty than others, I suppose) - then his calling is profound. If he brings people to Christ without the follow up effort of discipling,perhaps more needs to be included in the ministry.

JD
-Original Message-From: Ruben Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]innglory.orgSent: Tue, 24 May 2005 06:28:38 -0700Subject: [TruthTalk] Preach report

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin





hokum 

A
noun


1
nonsense, bunk, nonsensicality, meaninglessness, hokum



a message that seems to convey no meaning 

Did you mean "entirely" Hokum are are you really spewing (in the Gaelic Spue)HOCKum?
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








'Sure' as in certain, I'm not. However, the handwriting is on the wall. Ignore it at your own peril. I believe the 'rapture' business to be entirely hockum but I do believe that bad times are on the way for the 'lower 48' (the upper 10 as well)

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 24, 2005 08:11
Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin

I wouldn't be so sure Lance; the powers of darkness can cause one to believe that black is white and sour
is sweet. So I don't find ppl who are as sure as youthat you know all the details of international politics, 
trade, etc. to be truly credible. Many of us who live in the lower 48have an entirely other perspective
even without any rose coloured glasses. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 07:19:31 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
Just so you know, I do know the difference between up/down and black/white. Methinks you over generalize.


From: Judy Taylor 

Are you angry withthe US or GWB Lance? I've lived in Canada twice and nothing has changed, still the
old inferiority complex and finding things to be critical of over the border. BTW a critical spirit is not from God, why not be grateful for the good things? The US isn't all bad, if it were ppl would not be risking their lives to come here - neither is Canada all good. If we looked under the surface we would find the same kind of corruption on a smaller scale - maybe even worse. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:44:00 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
National debt anyone? They, it'd seem own you. The nations to watch are China  India. Apart from it's weaponry, the good old US of A pretty much produces nothing. Sorry, agriculture is still a factor, globally.


From: ShieldsFamily 
Ohhh, that! Yup. Thats why we now own France, Japan, and most of the rest of the world. 




Lance Muir writes:Why would we be? We are not invading countries to build an empire.




From: ShieldsFamily 








Im sure you and Canada are not being judged for anything at all. How lovely for you. Izzy



Lance MuirYou, collectively, are being judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge you.




From: Judy Taylor 











Would you rather have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you be

so sure that God is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is not the time

of Iraq's visitation? Through history God has always used one nation to judge another. Yes, the US will be

judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. jt



[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 


From: ShieldsFamily 


FYI, Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used to bring America more under the rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir

Your last sentence is that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to lunch.







		Discover Yahoo! 
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

Yaheye learnt from the Gaelic to "spue" too. Aan professeth me not to besuch an scholar as thee!Just a wee bit O TYPOglycemia, Eeh?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

That warrants a genuine 'smiley'. Go to schood did ya?

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 24, 2005 08:59
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

He should exhibit epistemological humility. 

HUME do you think you are?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I continually 'stone' DM, as you put it, because he is in leadership. He should exhibit epistemological humility. He should operate with open structures. He should know what ongoing learning is. He is yet a babe but, one can get by on milk I suppose. I'll bet TD hasn't read Dallas Willard.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 24, 2005 06:31
Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

Are you claiming that the fact that DM is detail oriented is what ran B,CD off? The "accuser" is back with a
vengeance and he just lovesto play the blame game on TT. Of course IYO Bill et. al. are blameless.? My 
daughter teaches second grade and what she reports sounds nothing at all like DM. Why do you continually 
verbally stone David Miller and now his daughter? For ppl who profess and are so caught up in God's love 
this kind of behavior is inexcusable. Remember love covers the multitude of sin so even if he were at fault 
your behaviorcondemns you rememberwe reap according to how we sow- jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:38:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
When you're right...Sad ain't it?

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In you statment below, you initiate your "discussion" with falsehood -- the claim that I am confused and you are not. Grade school combat tactics. Just plain silly. Why did Bill leave -- and probably Caroline and Debbie? They got of the tactic "win at all costs." You , especially, have potential, what with your eduational backgroudn (PhD and all). But you argue like a school kid. "Here's the probelm, John -- I am better than you." "Aaahh, no you're not ?" "YES I AM AM !!!' " No you're not." "Yes I am too." 

See the second grade tactic.? David says "Oh, now I see the crux of the matter: I follow the Bible andJohn doe not." Great response. Perhaps intellectually challenging to some in your camp, but it is a response that avoids the conflict, builds you up in your own eyes (and Izzy's -- she will now say that I was defeat simply because you said I was confused.)

InP3, you argue that you are in the apostles teaching and I am not. You do not teachjustification apart from obedience to law. You do not teach Christ as a substitute for in terms of faith and righteousness. You do not believe the law to be a "burden" although Peter felt this way. You think hell in somewhere near Compton.You do not know the fdifference between the old sacrifices and the new. You consider yourself an apostles on a par with Paul and Peter !!! You tout the rationalism of your thinking and call it enlightenment. I could go on - or would you prefer discussing the issue?

Dinner time. Look for Post II in this series, coming to your house in the near future.

JD 

What denominational association do you maintain and/orWhat denominational association is the church you now attend? Your answer to these questions has a lot to do with how I respond to this post. You know my afflication. What is yours?

JD

-Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:27:07 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

David Miller wrote:
 John 20:22-23
 (22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them,
 and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
 (23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto
 them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

John wrote:
 You are not included in this; neither am I.
 I see the apostles as having a very different relationship
 with the Christ than anyone else.

P 3This is the crux of our difference then:  doubt and unbelief concerning the 
reality of the kingdom of God.  I abide in the apostles' doctrine and 
believe that all that they were instructed in by Jesus the Christ applies to 
everyone who believes in Jesus Christ.  Jesus told the apostles:

Matthew 28:19-20
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of 
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: 
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Paul said:

Philippians 3:17
(17) Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as 
ye have us for an ensample.

Concerning the gift of the Holy Ghost that Jesus connected with the 
retaining or remitting of sins in John 20:22-23,

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

Only you, the truly Elite can read.
I have a few of his (Rushdooney)books too, in mypersonal library, though something tells me it has few of the books that you sell in the collection.
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Gordon Clark Read a book in the last 30 years? Next you'll be quotin; R. J. Rushdooney to me.

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 24, 2005 08:54
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

LOL

CMONDM pick up some HUMILITY like Lance has.

Gordon Clark warned: "If man can know nothing truly, man can truly know nothing. We cannot know that the Bible is the Word of God, that Christ died for our sin, or that Christ is alive today at the right hand of the Father. Unless knowledge is possible, Christianity is non-sensical, for it claims to be knowledge. What is at stake in the twentieth century is not simply a single doctrine, such as the Virgin Birth, or the existence of Hell, as important as those doctrines may be, but the whole of Christianity itself. If knowledge is not possible to man, it is worse than silly to argue points of doctrine--it is insane."Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I continually 'stone' DM, as you put it, because he is in leadership. He should exhibit epistemological humility. He should operate with open structures. He should know what ongoing learning is. He is yet a babe but, one can get by on milk I suppose. I'll bet TD hasn't read Dallas Willard.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 24, 2005 06:31
Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

Are you claiming that the fact that DM is detail oriented is what ran B,CD off? The "accuser" is back with a
vengeance and he just lovesto play the blame game on TT. Of course IYO Bill et. al. are blameless.? My 
daughter teaches second grade and what she reports sounds nothing at all like DM. Why do you continually 
verbally stone David Miller and now his daughter? For ppl who profess and are so caught up in God's love 
this kind of behavior is inexcusable. Remember love covers the multitude of sin so even if he were at fault 
your behaviorcondemns you rememberwe reap according to how we sow- jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:38:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
When you're right...Sad ain't it?

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In you statment below, you initiate your "discussion" with falsehood -- the claim that I am confused and you are not. Grade school combat tactics. Just plain silly. Why did Bill leave -- and probably Caroline and Debbie? They got of the tactic "win at all costs." You , especially, have potential, what with your eduational backgroudn (PhD and all). But you argue like a school kid. "Here's the probelm, John -- I am better than you." "Aaahh, no you're not ?" "YES I AM AM !!!' " No you're not." "Yes I am too." 

See the second grade tactic.? David says "Oh, now I see the crux of the matter: I follow the Bible andJohn doe not." Great response. Perhaps intellectually challenging to some in your camp, but it is a response that avoids the conflict, builds you up in your own eyes (and Izzy's -- she will now say that I was defeat simply because you said I was confused.)

InP3, you argue that you are in the apostles teaching and I am not. You do not teachjustification apart from obedience to law. You do not teach Christ as a substitute for in terms of faith and righteousness. You do not believe the law to be a "burden" although Peter felt this way. You think hell in somewhere near Compton.You do not know the fdifference between the old sacrifices and the new. You consider yourself an apostles on a par with Paul and Peter !!! You tout the rationalism of your thinking and call it enlightenment. I could go on - or would you prefer discussing the issue?

Dinner time. Look for Post II in this series, coming to your house in the near future.

JD 

What denominational association do you maintain and/orWhat denominational association is the church you now attend? Your answer to these questions has a lot to do with how I respond to this post. You know my afflication. What is yours?

JD

-Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:27:07 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

David Miller wrote:
 John 20:22-23
 (22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them,
 and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
 (23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto
 them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

John wrote:
 You are not included in this; neither am I.
 I see the apostles as having a very different relationship
 with the Christ than anyone else.

P 3This is the crux of our difference then:  doubt and unbelief concerning the 
reality of the kingdom of God.  I abide in

Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

2005-05-24 Thread Charles Perry Locke

Actually, the problem I have is not with Dave stating mormon beliefs, 
especially when asked. It is his teaching mormon doctrines, but denying that 
he is doing so. I am for openest...but honesty, too.

From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave 
uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 10:08:28 -0400

Write me privately then. I'd actually like to know beyond 'close'. If I
convert I'll keep it a secret.

- Original Message -
From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 24, 2005 09:55
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] mormon angels. was: Dave uses
Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT

 DAVEH:  That would be an affront to Perry.  Elaborating would be the
 equivalent of teaching LDS theology on TT, an activity Perry abhors.

 Lance Muir wrote:

 Could you not expand on 'somewhat close'?

 Charles Perry Locke wrote:

 Dave,

   Christians consider angels and humans to be two distinct types of
 created beings.

 DAVEH:  Yes, I understand that.  Yet, it seems Paul is telling us that
 it is difficult (if not impossible) to tell us (mortals) apart from
 angels.

 Correct me if I am wrong, but don't mormons consider angels to be
 either pre-mortal or post-mortal humans? For example, don't mormons
 consider Michael (the archangel) also to have been a human at one
 point...was it Adam? Hasn't he also been considered to be the mormon
 god the father? So, basically, one being can be spirit, angel, human,
 or god at various times. Am I right on this?

 DAVEH:  You are somewhat close.

 Perry

 --
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain six email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

"Kant" help but think, you  Mr Clark are diametrically opposed!Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Gordon Clark Read a book in the last 30 years? Next you'll be quotin; R. J. Rushdooney to me.

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 24, 2005 08:54
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

LOL

CMONDM pick up some HUMILITY like Lance has.

Gordon Clark warned: "If man can know nothing truly, man can truly know nothing. We cannot know that the Bible is the Word of God, that Christ died for our sin, or that Christ is alive today at the right hand of the Father. Unless knowledge is possible, Christianity is non-sensical, for it claims to be knowledge. What is at stake in the twentieth century is not simply a single doctrine, such as the Virgin Birth, or the existence of Hell, as important as those doctrines may be, but the whole of Christianity itself. If knowledge is not possible to man, it is worse than silly to argue points of doctrine--it is insane."Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I continually 'stone' DM, as you put it, because he is in leadership. He should exhibit epistemological humility. He should operate with open structures. He should know what ongoing learning is. He is yet a babe but, one can get by on milk I suppose. I'll bet TD hasn't read Dallas Willard.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: May 24, 2005 06:31
Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

Are you claiming that the fact that DM is detail oriented is what ran B,CD off? The "accuser" is back with a
vengeance and he just lovesto play the blame game on TT. Of course IYO Bill et. al. are blameless.? My 
daughter teaches second grade and what she reports sounds nothing at all like DM. Why do you continually 
verbally stone David Miller and now his daughter? For ppl who profess and are so caught up in God's love 
this kind of behavior is inexcusable. Remember love covers the multitude of sin so even if he were at fault 
your behaviorcondemns you rememberwe reap according to how we sow- jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:38:51 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
When you're right...Sad ain't it?

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In you statment below, you initiate your "discussion" with falsehood -- the claim that I am confused and you are not. Grade school combat tactics. Just plain silly. Why did Bill leave -- and probably Caroline and Debbie? They got of the tactic "win at all costs." You , especially, have potential, what with your eduational backgroudn (PhD and all). But you argue like a school kid. "Here's the probelm, John -- I am better than you." "Aaahh, no you're not ?" "YES I AM AM !!!' " No you're not." "Yes I am too." 

See the second grade tactic.? David says "Oh, now I see the crux of the matter: I follow the Bible andJohn doe not." Great response. Perhaps intellectually challenging to some in your camp, but it is a response that avoids the conflict, builds you up in your own eyes (and Izzy's -- she will now say that I was defeat simply because you said I was confused.)

InP3, you argue that you are in the apostles teaching and I am not. You do not teachjustification apart from obedience to law. You do not teach Christ as a substitute for in terms of faith and righteousness. You do not believe the law to be a "burden" although Peter felt this way. You think hell in somewhere near Compton.You do not know the fdifference between the old sacrifices and the new. You consider yourself an apostles on a par with Paul and Peter !!! You tout the rationalism of your thinking and call it enlightenment. I could go on - or would you prefer discussing the issue?

Dinner time. Look for Post II in this series, coming to your house in the near future.

JD 

What denominational association do you maintain and/orWhat denominational association is the church you now attend? Your answer to these questions has a lot to do with how I respond to this post. You know my afflication. What is yours?

JD

-Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:27:07 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

David Miller wrote:
 John 20:22-23
 (22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them,
 and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
 (23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto
 them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

John wrote:
 You are not included in this; neither am I.
 I see the apostles as having a very different relationship
 with the Christ than anyone else.

P 3This is the crux of our difference then:  doubt and unbelief concerning the 
reality of the kingdom of God.  I abide in the apostles' doctrine and 
believe that all that they were instructed in by Jesus the Christ applies to 
everyone who

RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin









Always pushing your liberal agenda media,
eh, Lance? We all know where these Hollywood documentaries
come from. Better luck next time? Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:25
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
What is sin







Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. For those wishing to put 'feet'
to their faith, I'd recommend a documentary entitled 'The Corporation'. It may
be rented from BB. It demonstrates that of which I speak.







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 23, 2005 14:42





Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
What is sin











Last time I checked Lance Dallas Willard
was not sitting on the throne. Capitalism is by nature consumerist; is





Canada a capitalist nature by any
chance? I know Australia
is and it is every bit as bad, maybe worse in some





ways. You know the old saying
ppl who live in glass houses? Australia is not
religious at all, in fact it is





basically secular as is your country
from what I've heard. jt











On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:14:26 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







You, collectively, are being judged now for your
consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on this),
dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be
using 'them' to judge you.







From: Judy Taylor












Would you rather have mid east cloak and
dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you be so
sure that God is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How
are you so sure it is not the time of Iraq's visitation? Through
history God has always used one nation to judge another. Yes, the US will be
judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. jt











On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record,
it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read
'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east
aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 







From: ShieldsFamily










FYI, Lance, the Kingdom is
the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and reigns in my life then I am
in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used to bring America more under the rule and
reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good thing. God can
use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous.
Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir





Your last sentence is that which you, Judy, should take to
'heart'. You are in a kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe
that GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to lunch.

RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation









Oh, so that excuses you??? Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 4:48
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
Fond Farewells- Salvation







I continually 'stone' DM, as you put it, because he is in leadership.

RE: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT









If you just get your theology upright the
rest will follow. Iz











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 11:14
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses
Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT











Whew !! Thanks forremoving the
pressure. But I just about have this upright
thing figured out. I will try it with shoes in the next day
ortwo. If I can learnto be bipedalistic, it
will free up an extra pair of shoes. 











Cool











JD




-Original Message-
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Mon, 23 May 2005 21:39:52 -0500
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on
TT



Okay, we'll also post photos of creatures
from the other end of the spectrum as needed. :-) 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 12:02
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dave uses
Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on TT







You keep pressuring me for a picture. I am
working on it. 











JD




-Original Message-
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Mon, 23 May 2005 10:56:51 -0500
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine on
TT



Has anyone on TT
actually seen an angel? Izzy



-Original
Message-

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of David Miller

Sent: Monday, May
23, 2005 9:14 AM

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Dave uses Socratic Method of Teaching LDS doctrine

on TT



Kevin wrote:

 Just like on
ressurection morning he vanished from

 the Tomb
talked to some and made a bee line to heaven

 and back all
while the Jerusalem Grille was still serving

 breakfast!
How far is it to heaven and back? How fast

 was He
travelling? Going to heaven and back in maybe

 an hour,
does that make him invisible? If you were

 travelling
with Him would He be invisible?



It is possible
that the fastness of his travel might account for his 

vanishing, but
the language used in this passage suggests that it also is 

possible that he
simply became invisible and then left. The language 

focuses upon his
vanishing rather than his leaving or coming. If it is 

possible that he
did just become invisible, then this would be an example of



someone who has a
body yet is invisible.



What do you think
about angels around us? Sometimes they become visible, 

but don't you
think of angels as being in a dimension which is invisible to 

us? The
Bible seems to speak of every person having a guardian angel, yet 

we don't see
angels as often as we see people. Wouldn't invisibility be the



likely
explanation for that? Don't you think angels have bodies?



Peace be with
you.

David Miller. 





--

Let your
speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know

how you ought to
answer every man. (Colossians 4:6)

http://www.InnGlory.org



If you do not
want to receive posts from this list, send an email to

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a

friend who wants
to join, tell him to send an e-mail to

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
and he will be subscribed.







--

Let your
speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how 

you ought to
answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org



If you do not
want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend 

who wants to
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and 

he will be
subscribed.

RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin









Big talk from a guy that America could
run overtake in 5 minutes. In fact America could own the world if
brute power were all that mattered to us, as you seem to think. Fortunately
for you and the rest of the world, America loves freedom for all. Even
badmouths. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:44
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE:
[Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin







National debt anyone? They, it'd seem own you. The nations
to watch are China  India. Apart
from it's weaponry, the good old US of A pretty much produces nothing. Sorry,
agriculture is still a factor, globally.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 23, 2005 22:31





Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk]
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin









Ohhh, that! Yup.
Thats why we now own France,
Japan,
and most of the rest of the world. 











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 10:41
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re:
[Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin







Why would we be? We are not invading countries to build an
empire.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 23, 2005 11:57





Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk]
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin









Im sure you and Canada are not being judged for
anything at all. How lovely for you. Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:14 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE:
[Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin







You, collectively, are being judged now for your
consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on this),
dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be
using 'them' to judge you.







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 23, 2005 10:12





Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin











Would you rather have mid east cloak and
dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you be





so sure that God is not involved with
what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is not the time





of Iraq's visitation? Through
history God has always used one nation to judge another. Yes, the US
will be





judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not
Lance's. jt











On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record,
it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read
'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east
aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 







From: ShieldsFamily










FYI, Lance, the Kingdom is
the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and reigns in my life then I am
in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used to bring America more under the rule and
reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good thing. God can
use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. So dont be so
contemptuous. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir





Your last sentence is that which you, Judy, should take to
'heart'. You are in a kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe
that GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to lunch.

Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin




I'm sorry to hear that the 'state of the nation' 
(yours) causes you such distress. You won't need gas for the rest of the trip as 
it's all down hill from here. What sort of fantasy world do you military types 
live in?.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 12:11
  Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: 
  [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin
  
  
  Big talk from a guy 
  that America could run overtake in 5 
  minutes. In fact America could own the world if 
  brute power were all that mattered to us, as you seem to think. 
  Fortunately for you and the rest of the world, America loves freedom for 
  all. Even badmouths. Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:44 
  AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] 
  Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  
  National debt anyone? They, it'd 
  seem own you. The nations to watch are China  India. Apart 
  from it's weaponry, the good old US of A pretty much produces nothing. Sorry, 
  agriculture is still a factor, 
  globally.
  

- Original Message - 


From: ShieldsFamily 


To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Sent: May 23, 
2005 22:31

Subject: [Bulk] 
RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
sin


Ohhh, 
that! Yup. Thats why we now own France, Japan, and most of the rest of 
the world. 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, May 23, 2005 10:41 
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: 
[Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
sin


Why would we be? We are not 
invading countries to build an empire.

  
  - Original Message - 
  
  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  
  Sent: May 
  23, 2005 11:57
  
  Subject: 
  [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  
  Im sure you and 
  Canada are not being judged for 
  anything at all. How lovely for you. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:14 
  AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: 
  [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  
  You, collectively, are being 
  judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see 
  Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an 
  embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge 
  you.
  

- Original Message - 


From: Judy 
Taylor 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Sent: May 
23, 2005 10:12

Subject: 
[Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
sin



Would you rather 
have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and 
insanity. Also how can you be

so sure that God is 
not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How are you so 
sure it is not the time

of Iraq's visitation? 
Through history God has always used one nation to judge another. 
Yes, the US will 
be

judged also but - 
IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. jt



On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  'If' is the operative 
  wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. Under 
  the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops near the 
  oil supply) he has set much of the middle east aflame.I'd say 
  that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 
  
  

From: 
ShieldsFamily 



FYI, Lance, 
the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and 
reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used 
to bring America more under the 
rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good 
thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. 
So dont be so contemptuous. Izzy

RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin









Oooh, Lance, were SO sorry they
didnt ask for YOUR updated reading list! (not!) J Iz











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:16
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
What is sin







'they (BSF) do not push their own peculiar doctrine'.
Really!? They send me the recommended reading lists every time a new one is
'created'. Whatever I don't know, Jt, I do know books. Sorry, but they do push
their own peculiar (which, in reality, ain't so 'peculiar'. It's quite good)
doctrine. I guess you hadn't noticed. That's OK.







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 24, 2005 06:55





Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
What is sin











Please describe for me the hierarchy on
TT? I know you will call DM a pope but who are the cardinals,





bishops, etc? BSF may have a board
but there is no religious hierarchy as in rcc (Magisterium) and they do 





not push their own peculiar doctrine;
BSF encouragesBible Study and reliance on the Holy Spirit. Lance





methinks you are too opinionated about
what you are unfamiliar with ... jt











On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:43:16 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







Thanks for the early morning smile. It matters that you do
not 'see' however, God is blessing you in your faithfulness. 





Also, politics is virtually omnipresent. It is in BSF, TT
and, even your household.







From: Judy Taylor












I see a connection between the rcc and
corporations but then I do not think the rcc in any way reflects the KofG





It is political and the antithesis of
all that is good, pure, and holy. Jesus said we are to have one Lord and
the





rest of us are brethren. You see a
connection because you are so into the teachings of the rcc church fathers





but this is the teaching of the
Nicolaitians that Jesus hates. jt











On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:17:16 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







Iz has quoted him on TT and, more than once. If you do not
see the connection between corporations and the kingdom of God
then, I rest my case vis a vis platonism. (ask Christine as she is in UofF).
Now, there would be an interesting conversation: Christine and David watching
The Corporation together. . 







From: Judy Taylor












Iz respects DW in the Lord as a
godly man who walks in love and she may request his input but I've
not seen her quoting him or sitting at his feet. What do corporations
have to do with the KofG? They work on an entirely other principle.
In fact corporations are based on the evolutionary principle with the survival
of the fittest... jt











On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:24:45 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. For those wishing to put 'feet'
to their faith, I'd recommend a documentary entitled 'The Corporation'. It may
be rented from BB. It demonstrates that of which I speak.







From: Judy Taylor












Last time I checked Lance Dallas Willard
was not sitting on the throne. Capitalism is by nature consumerist; is





Canada a capitalist nature by any
chance? I know Australia
is and it is every bit as bad, maybe worse in some





ways. You know the old saying
ppl who live in glass houses? Australia is not
religious at all, in fact it is





basically secular as is your country
from what I've heard. jt











On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:14:26 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







You, collectively, are being judged now for your
consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on this),
dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be
using 'them' to judge you.







From: Judy Taylor












Would you rather have mid east cloak and
dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you be so
sure that God is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How
are you so sure it is not the time of Iraq's visitation? Through
history God has always used one nation to judge another. Yes, the US will be
judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. jt











On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record,
it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read
'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east
aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 







From: ShieldsFamily










FYI, Lance, the Kingdom is
the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and reigns in my life then I am
in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used to bring America more under the rule and
reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good thing. God can
use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. So dont be so
contemptuous. Izzy

FW: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation









J















Looks likethey don't
havestamina equal to that ofthe Mormon boys :)





... jt

RE: [TruthTalk] Preach report









Thank you, Brother Rubin! We are so happy
that you were not imprisoned (as you would have been in Canada) for preaching
the Truth! Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ruben Israel
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 7:29
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] Preach report







Regarding the new California
hate crime laws against homosexuals, well as they say in sports, No
harm, and no foul or as the scripture teaches, where sin abounds, grace
abounds the more. Sunday was the first sodomite parade in California
since our governor Arnold signed this law (effected 2005) but it was business
as usual. For 22 years this event has pranced in Long Beach.
With the Pacific Ocean
behind us (as our back drop) and the sodomites parading in front of us, we were
able to warn the masses, exhort the mayor and other political vote whores with
banners and mega horns. We had four police officers around us and two parade
monitors that stopped people from throwing objects at us and dropping their
pants in front of us. This is the only parade where one could see little
purple sexually transmitted diseases dancing to music carrying signs to wear
protection, while they toss out condoms to the cheering crowd. 

To be filed under, Gods Will: I had
brought an extra banner and so did another brother and when the preaching started
this young man walked his wife over to us (she was blind) and stood behind the
police barricades with us and wanted to hold banners and stand with us for
God. They both held banners for about two hours and assisted to help us
testify at this event. Another guy was walking home from work and noticed us,
so he came by talking and stayed watching a witnessing to those around us. 

Once again the public preaching provoked
many one on one conversations and our new guy that has been joining us since New
Years Eve in Vegas, commented that never saw anything like this in his whole
life. It is one thing to preach against sodomy, or to witness to a sodomite,
but another it is another world to see how these people act when they have an
event. Each group, car, float stopped in front of us to yell, flip us off, or
do some kind of kiss in, so at the end of the day God Word was heralded on the
streets. After the parade my wife picked us up (with no plates on our vehicle)
as a Long Beach police car
escorted us out a few blocks from the grid. On the way home I thought out
loud to everyone, on how many of those sodomites that we preacher to 22 years
ago at this event are still alive today? What do you think their message
would be..? (clue) see Luke 16:28.

From the WATCHTOWER: Ruben Israel 

RIDDLE:

Why do the sodomites march next to the
ocean?

Maybe to see a HUMP BACK wha

Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin

Actually the local BSF chapters do ask me. They 
esteem my BK highly, as they ought.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: May 24, 2005 12:42
  Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
  What is sin

  Oooh, Lance, were SO 
  sorry they didnt ask for YOUR updated reading list! (not!) 
  J 
  Iz

  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:16 
  AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin

  'they (BSF) do not push their own 
  peculiar doctrine'. Really!? They send me the recommended reading lists every 
  time a new one is 'created'. Whatever I don't know, Jt, I do know books. 
  Sorry, but they do push their own peculiar (which, in reality, ain't so 
  'peculiar'. It's quite good) doctrine. I guess you hadn't noticed. That's 
  OK.

- Original Message - 

From: Judy 
Taylor 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: May 24, 
2005 06:55

Subject: [Bulk] 
[TruthTalk] What is sin

Please describe for me the hierarchy 
on TT? I know you will call DM a pope but who are the 
cardinals,

bishops, etc? BSF may have a 
board but there is no religious hierarchy as in rcc (Magisterium) and they 
do 

not push their own peculiar 
doctrine; BSF encouragesBible Study and reliance on the Holy 
Spirit. Lance

methinks you are too opinionated 
about what you are unfamiliar with ... 
jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:43:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Thanks for the early morning 
  smile. It matters that you do not 'see' however, God is blessing you in 
  your faithfulness. 

  Also, politics is virtually 
  omnipresent. It is in BSF, TT and, even your 
  household.

From: Judy 
Taylor 

I see a connection 
between the rcc and corporations but then I do not think the rcc in any 
way reflects the KofG

It is political and 
the antithesis of all that is good, pure, and holy. Jesus said we 
are to have one Lord and the

rest of us are 
brethren. You see a connection because you are so into the 
teachings of the rcc church fathers

but this is the 
teaching of the Nicolaitians that Jesus hates. 
jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:17:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Iz has quoted him on TT 
  and, more than once. If you do not see the connection between 
  corporations and the kingdom of God then, I rest my case vis a 
  vis platonism. (ask Christine as she is in UofF). Now, there would be 
  an interesting conversation: Christine and David watching The 
  Corporation together. . 

From: 
Judy Taylor 

Iz respects DW 
in the Lord as a "godly man" who walks in love and she may request 
his input but I've not seen her quoting him or sitting at his 
feet. What do corporations have to do with the KofG? 
They work on an entirely other principle. In fact corporations 
are based on the evolutionary principle with the survival of the 
fittest... jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:24:45 -0400 "Lance 
Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Iz has DW on a 
  'thronette'. For those wishing to put 'feet' to their faith, I'd 
  recommend a documentary entitled 'The Corporation'. It may be 
  rented from BB. It demonstrates that of which I 
  speak.

From: Judy Taylor 

Last time I 
checked Lance Dallas Willard was not sitting on the 
throne. Capitalism is by nature consumerist; 
is

Canada a capitalist nature 
by any chance? I know Australia is and it 
is every bit as bad, maybe worse in 
some

ways. 
You know the old saying "ppl who live in glass houses?" 
Australia is not 
"religious" at all, in fact it 
is

basically 
secular as is your country from what

Re: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Preach report

Why, pray tell, do you spell the good brother's 
name with an 'i'?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: May 24, 2005 12:50
  Subject: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] Preach 
  report

  Thank you, Brother 
  Rubin! We are so happy that you were not imprisoned (as you would have 
  been in Canada) for preaching the Truth! Izzy

  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ruben IsraelSent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 7:29 
  AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Preach 
  report

  Regarding the new 
  California hate crime 
  laws against homosexuals, well as they say in sports, No harm, and no foul 
  or as the scripture teaches, where sin abounds, grace abounds the more. 
  Sunday was the first sodomite parade in California since our 
  governor Arnold signed this law (effected 2005) but it was business as 
  usual. For 22 years this event has pranced in Long 
  Beach. With the Pacific Ocean behind us 
  (as our back drop) and the sodomites parading in front of us, we were able to 
  warn the masses, exhort the mayor and other political vote whores with banners 
  and mega horns. We had four police officers around us and two parade 
  monitors that stopped people from throwing objects at us and dropping their 
  pants in front of us. This is the only parade where one could see little 
  purple sexually transmitted diseases dancing to music carrying signs to wear 
  protection, while they toss out condoms to the cheering crowd. 

  To be filed under, 
  Gods Will: I had brought an extra banner and so did another brother and when 
  the preaching started this young man walked his wife over to us (she was 
  blind) and stood behind the police barricades with us and wanted to hold 
  banners and stand with us for God. They both held banners for 
  about two hours and assisted to help us testify at this event. Another 
  guy was walking home from work and noticed us, so he came by talking and 
  stayed watching a witnessing to those around us. 

  Once again the public 
  preaching provoked many one on one conversations and our new guy that has been 
  joining us since New Years Eve in Vegas, commented that never saw anything 
  like this in his whole life. It is one thing to preach against sodomy, 
  or to witness to a sodomite, but another it is another world to see how these 
  people act when they have an event. Each group, car, float stopped in 
  front of us to yell, flip us off, or do some kind of kiss in, so at the end of 
  the day God Word was heralded on the streets. After the parade my wife 
  picked us up (with no plates on our vehicle) as a Long 
  Beach police car escorted us out a 
  few blocks from the grid. On the way home I thought out loud to 
  everyone, on how many of those sodomites that we preacher to 22 years ago at 
  this event are still alive today? What do you think their message 
  would be..? (clue) see Luke 16:28.
  From the WATCHTOWER: 
  Ruben Israel 
  RIDDLE:
  Why do the sodomites 
  march next to the ocean?
  Maybe to see a HUMP 
  BACK wha

RE: [TruthTalk] What is sin









(He thinks he is the reincarnation of Mr.
Rogers.) Iz











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Hansen
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 7:40
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] What is
sin





DAVEH: Just how old are you,
Lance!!! =-O 

Lance Muir wrote: 



Been saying the Lord would return since He ascended.







-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

RE: [TruthTalk] What is sin









At least it isnt yet a hate crime in
America to read Bible verses about sodomy. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 4:43
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] What is sin







Are you angry withthe US or GWB
Lance? I've lived in Canada
twice and nothing has changed, still the





old inferiority complex and finding
things to be critical of over the border. BTW a critical spirit is not
from God, 





why not be grateful for the good things?
The US
isn't all bad, if it were ppl would not be risking their lives to come





here - neither is Canada all
good. If we looked under the surface we would find the same kind of corruption
on a





smaller scale - maybe even worse.
jt











On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:44:00 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





National debt anyone? They, it'd seem own you. The nations
to watch are China  India. Apart
from it's weaponry, the good old US of A pretty much produces nothing. Sorry,
agriculture is still a factor, globally.









From: ShieldsFamily






Ohhh, that! Yup.
Thats why we now own France,
Japan,
and most of the rest of the world. 







Lance Muir writes:
Why would we be? We are not invading countries to build an empire.













From: ShieldsFamily




























Im sure you and Canada are not being judged for
anything at all. How lovely for you. Izzy





Lance Muir
You, collectively, are being judged now for your consumerist, religious,
non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to
what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge you.













From: Judy Taylor




































Would you rather have mid east cloak and
dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you be





so sure that God is not involved with
what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is not the time





of Iraq's visitation? Through
history God has always used one nation to judge another. Yes, the US
will be





judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not
Lance's. jt











[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record,
it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read
'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east
aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 







From: ShieldsFamily










FYI, Lance, the Kingdom is
the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and reigns in my life then I am
in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used to bring America more under the rule and
reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good thing. God can
use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. So dont be so
contemptuous. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir





Your last sentence is that which you, Judy, should take to
'heart'. You are in a kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe
that GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to lunch.

RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin









We just dont live with our heads
under a bucket. You are clueless, but thats no news flash. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:18
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE:
[Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin







I'm sorry to hear that the 'state of the nation' (yours)
causes you such distress. You won't need gas for the rest of the trip as it's
all down hill from here. What sort of fantasy world do you military types live
in?.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 24, 2005 12:11





Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk]
RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin









Big talk from a guy that America could run overtake in 5
minutes. In fact America
could own the world if brute power were all that mattered to us, as you seem to
think. Fortunately for you and the rest of the world, America loves freedom for
all. Even badmouths. Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:44
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE:
[Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin







National debt anyone? They, it'd seem own you. The nations
to watch are China  India.
Apart from it's weaponry, the good old US of A pretty much produces nothing.
Sorry, agriculture is still a factor, globally.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 23, 2005 22:31





Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk]
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin









Ohhh, that! Yup.
Thats why we now own France,
Japan,
and most of the rest of the world. 











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 10:41
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re:
[Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin







Why would we be? We are not invading countries to build an
empire.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 23, 2005 11:57





Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk]
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin









Im sure you and Canada are not being judged for
anything at all. How lovely for you. Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:14 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE:
[Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin







You, collectively, are being judged now for your
consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on this),
dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be
using 'them' to judge you.







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 23, 2005 10:12





Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin











Would you rather have mid east cloak and
dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you be





so sure that God is not involved with
what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is not the time





of Iraq's visitation? Through
history God has always used one nation to judge another. Yes, the US
will be





judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not
Lance's. jt











On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record,
it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read
'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east
aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 







From: ShieldsFamily










FYI, Lance, the Kingdom is
the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and reigns in my life then I am
in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used to bring America more under the rule and
reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good thing. God can
use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. So dont be so
contemptuous. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir





Your last sentence is that which you, Judy, should take to
'heart'. You are in a kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe
that GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to lunch.

[TruthTalk] What is sin




Are you a fan of Michael Moore Lance? Would you prefer 
tobe at the mercy of the one who Rush calls Kim Jung
mentally ill? jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 12:21:58 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Being part of the military industrial complex 
(Shields Inc) explains your misinformation.

  
From: ShieldsFamily 


Always pushing your 
liberal agenda media, eh, Lance? We all know where these Hollywood documentaries come from. Better luck 
next time? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
Muir

Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. For 
those wishing to put 'feet' to their faith, I'd recommend a documentary 
entitled 'The Corporation'. It may be rented from BB. It demonstrates that 
of which I speak.

  
  From: Judy 
  Taylor 
  
  
  
  Last time I checked Lance Dallas 
  Willard was not sitting on the throne. Capitalism is by nature 
  consumerist; is
  
  Canada a capitalist nature by any 
  chance? I know Australia is and it is every 
  bit as bad, maybe worse in some
  
  ways. You know the old 
  saying "ppl who live in glass houses?" Australia 
  is not "religious" at all, in fact it 
is
  
  basically secular as is your 
  country from what I've heard. jt
  
  
  
  On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:14:26 -0400 "Lance Muir" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

You, collectively, are being 
judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see 
Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an 
embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge 
you.

  
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  
  
  
  
  Would you rather 
  have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and 
  insanity. Also how can you be so sure that God is not involved 
  with what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is 
  not the time of Iraq's visitation? 
  Through history God has always used one nation to judge another. 
  Yes, the US will be judged also but 
  - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. 
  jt
  
  
  
  On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance 
  Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

'If' is the operative 
wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. 
Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops 
near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east 
aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 


  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  
  FYI, 
  Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He 
  rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB 
  can be used to bring America more under the 
  rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a 
  good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, 
  including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. 
  Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
  Muir
  
  Your last sentence is 
  that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a kind of 
  bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that GWB is 
  bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to 
  lunch.

RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin









PS And who would be able to stop us---Canada
(Or maybe France, who is brave at eating, drinking, and making love, but cant
surrender fast enough when an enemy comes at them. We saved their lilly white
behinds in WWII and should have taken over the country to get some red blood in
there. But, there you go, we prefer freedomeven to be cowards.) Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:18
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE:
[Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin







I'm sorry to hear that the 'state of the nation' (yours)
causes you such distress. You won't need gas for the rest of the trip as it's
all down hill from here. What sort of fantasy world do you military types live
in?.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 24, 2005 12:11





Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk]
RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin









Big talk from a guy that America could run overtake in 5
minutes. In fact America
could own the world if brute power were all that mattered to us, as you seem to
think. Fortunately for you and the rest of the world, America loves freedom for
all. Even badmouths. Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:44
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE:
[Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin







National debt anyone? They, it'd seem own you. The nations
to watch are China  India.
Apart from it's weaponry, the good old US of A pretty much produces nothing.
Sorry, agriculture is still a factor, globally.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 23, 2005 22:31





Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk]
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin









Ohhh, that! Yup.
Thats why we now own France,
Japan,
and most of the rest of the world. 











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 10:41
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re:
[Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin







Why would we be? We are not invading countries to build an
empire.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 23, 2005 11:57





Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk]
Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin









Im sure you and Canada are not being judged for
anything at all. How lovely for you. Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:14 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE:
[Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin







You, collectively, are being judged now for your
consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on this),
dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be
using 'them' to judge you.







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 23, 2005 10:12





Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk]
RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin











Would you rather have mid east cloak and
dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you be





so sure that God is not involved with
what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is not the time





of Iraq's visitation? Through
history God has always used one nation to judge another. Yes, the US
will be





judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not
Lance's. jt











On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record,
it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read
'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east
aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 







From: ShieldsFamily










FYI, Lance, the Kingdom is
the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and reigns in my life then I am
in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used to bring America more under the rule and
reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good thing. God can
use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous.
Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir





Your last sentence is that which you, Judy, should take to
'heart'. You are in a kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe
that GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to lunch.

Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin




Ah but, that was 60 years ago. Remember 
Korea, Viet Nam, Beirut, Somaliasoon to be Iraq? Ahhh that the glory 
days of the empire might return! Paper tiger has taken on new 
meaning.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 12:56
  Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: 
  [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  
  PS And who would be 
  able to stop us---Canada (Or 
  maybe France, who is brave at eating, drinking, and making love, but cant 
  surrender fast enough when an enemy comes at them. We saved their lilly 
  white behinds in WWII and should have taken over the country to get some red 
  blood in there. But, there you go, we prefer freedomeven to be 
  cowards.) Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of Lance 
  MuirSent: Tuesday, May 24, 
  2005 10:18 AMTo: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] 
  RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  
  I'm sorry to hear that the 'state 
  of the nation' (yours) causes you such distress. You won't need gas for the 
  rest of the trip as it's all down hill from here. What sort of fantasy world 
  do you military types live in?.
  

- Original Message - 


From: ShieldsFamily 


To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Sent: May 24, 
2005 12:11

Subject: [Bulk] 
RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] 
[TruthTalk] What is sin


Big talk from a guy 
that America could run overtake in 5 
minutes. In fact America could own the world if 
brute power were all that mattered to us, as you seem to think. 
Fortunately for you and the rest of the world, America loves freedom for 
all. Even badmouths. Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:44 
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: 
[Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
sin


National debt anyone? They, it'd 
seem own you. The nations to watch are China  India. Apart from it's weaponry, 
the good old US of A pretty much produces nothing. Sorry, agriculture is 
still a factor, globally.

  
  - Original Message - 
  
  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  
  Sent: May 
  23, 2005 22:31
  
  Subject: 
  [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
  What is sin
  
  
  Ohhh, 
  that! Yup. Thats why we now own France, Japan, and most of the rest of 
  the world. 
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, May 23, 2005 10:41 
  AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: 
  [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  
  Why would we be? We are not 
  invading countries to build an empire.
  

- Original Message - 


From: ShieldsFamily 


To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Sent: May 
23, 2005 11:57

Subject: 
[Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
sin


Im sure you 
and Canada are not being judged 
for anything at all. How lovely for you. 
Izzy





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:14 
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: 
[Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
sin


You, collectively, are being 
judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see 
Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an 
embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge 
you.

  
  - Original Message 
  - 
  
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  
  
  To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  
  Cc: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  
  Sent: 
  May 23, 2005 10:12
  
  Subject: 
  [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  
  
  Would you rather 
  have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim

[TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation




It's sanctified thinking that you would not recognize 
or relate to; anyone with a mind full of Monty Python
and equally ridiculous worldly tripe would be in no 
condition to evaluate. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 12:21:05 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I note that you conveniently truncated my reply. 
  A guy who wields so much power with mindless fundies needs to be held to 
  account. After all, I bin readin' you guys for years. Not a whole lot o' 
  thinkin' goin' on here.
  
  
  
From: 
ShieldsFamily 


Oh, so that excuses 
you??? Izzy





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
Muir


I continually 'stone' DM, as you put it, because he is in leadership.

Re: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] What is sin

Read 'tomorrow's' Wall Street Journal.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: May 24, 2005 12:50
  Subject: [Bulk] RE: [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin

  At least it isnt yet 
  a hate crime in America to read Bible verses about sodomy. 
  Izzy

  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 4:43 
  AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin

  Are you angry withthe 
  US or GWB Lance? I've lived 
  in Canada twice and nothing has 
  changed, still the

  old inferiority complex and finding 
  things to be critical of over the border. BTW a critical spirit is not 
  from God, 

  why not be grateful for the good 
  things? The US isn't all bad, if it were ppl 
  would not be risking their lives to come

  here - neither is Canada all 
  good. If we looked under the surface we would find the same kind of corruption 
  on a

  smaller scale - maybe even 
  worse. jt

  On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:44:00 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:

  National debt anyone? They, it'd 
  seem own you. The nations to watch are China  India. Apart 
  from it's weaponry, the good old US of A pretty much produces nothing. Sorry, 
  agriculture is still a factor, 
  globally.

  From: ShieldsFamily 

  Ohhh, 
  that! Yup. Thats why we now own France, Japan, and most of the rest of 
  the world. 

  Lance Muir 
  writes:Why would we be? We are not 
  invading countries to build an empire.

From: ShieldsFamily 

Im sure you 
and Canada are not being judged 
for anything at all. How lovely for you. 
Izzy

Lance 
MuirYou, collectively, are being 
judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building (see 
Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should be an 
embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge 
you.

  From: 
  Judy Taylor 

  Would you rather 
  have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and 
  insanity. Also how can you be

  so sure that God 
  is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How are you 
  so sure it is not the time

  of Iraq's visitation? 
  Through history God has always used one nation to judge another. 
  Yes, the US will 
  be

  judged also but - 
  IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. 
  jt

  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:

'If' is the operative 
wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. 
Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant bases/troops 
near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east 
aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 

  From: ShieldsFamily 

  FYI, 
  Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If He 
  rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. If GWB 
  can be used to bring America more under the 
  rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a 
  good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, 
  including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. 
  Izzy

  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
  Muir

  Your last sentence is 
  that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a kind of 
  bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that GWB is 
  bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to 
  lunch.

Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin




I'm not a fan of MM. He's pretty much an out and 
out deceiver.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 12:32
  Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin
  
  Are you a fan of Michael Moore Lance? Would you 
  prefer tobe at the mercy of the one who Rush calls Kim Jung
  mentally ill? jt
  
  On Tue, 24 May 2005 12:21:58 -0400 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  Being part of the military industrial complex 
  (Shields Inc) explains your misinformation.
  

  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  Always pushing 
  your liberal agenda media, eh, Lance? We all know where these Hollywood documentaries come from. Better 
  luck next time? Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
  Muir
  
  Iz has DW on a 'thronette'. 
  For those wishing to put 'feet' to their faith, I'd recommend a 
  documentary entitled 'The Corporation'. It may be rented from BB. It 
  demonstrates that of which I speak.
  

From: Judy 
Taylor 



Last time I checked Lance Dallas 
Willard was not sitting on the throne. Capitalism is by nature 
consumerist; is


Canada a capitalist nature by any 
chance? I know Australia is and it is every 
bit as bad, maybe worse in some

ways. You 
know the old saying "ppl who live in glass houses?" 
Australia is not "religious" 
at all, in fact it is

basically secular 
as is your country from what I've heard. 
jt



On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:14:26 -0400 "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  You, collectively, are 
  being judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building 
  (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should 
  be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge 
  you.
  

From: 
Judy Taylor 




Would you 
rather have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and 
insanity. Also how can you be so sure that God is not involved 
with what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is 
not the time of Iraq's visitation? 
Through history God has always used one nation to judge 
another. Yes, the US will be judged also 
but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. 
jt



On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400 "Lance 
Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  'If' is the operative 
  wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. 
  Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant 
  bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle 
  east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than 
  God. 
  

From: ShieldsFamily 



FYI, 
Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If 
He rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. 
If GWB can be used to bring America more under 
the rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is 
a good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, 
including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. 
Izzy





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
Muir

Your last sentence 
is that which you, Judy, should take to 'heart'. You are in a 
kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe that 
GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to 
lunch.

Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

John wrote:
 What denominational association do you maintain

None.

John wrote:
 ... and/or What denominational association is the
 church you now attend?

None.  We are an apostolic church, not associated with any denomination.

Have you ever read of the denominations mentioned in the Bible? 
Denominations seem to cause more trouble than good.

John wrote:
 Your answer to these questions has a lot to do
 with how I respond to this post.   You know
 my afflication.   What is yours?

I know your affliction?  :-)  I know that you were affiliated in the past 
with Church of Christ, but what is your affiliation now?  I'm not sure of 
that.

My background includes Methodist, Nazarene, Charismatic, Presbyterian, some 
Baptist, Pentecostal (Church of God), some Church of Christ, and several 
independent home churches.  I presently affiliate with no denominations and 
have no plans to.  I try whenever possible to help people detach themselves 
from denominations.

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin

CM asks of me:'Lanceisn't 'that'(?) a red herring?' LM responds: How so,
Christine?

CM asserts that I equate cultural awareness with cultural brainwashing. LM
asks:Using the context of my post kindly demonstrate this assertion.
Further, CM asserts that I equate knowledge and belief. I do not. I did
however, suggest a viewing of The Corporation together. When you've done so
we might then have a discussion.

CM suggests that Jt refers to something about paying the price for something
or other. Kindly explain along with the logical fallacy I fell prey to.

Well done young lady. You have the fancy footwork of your father. You may
have a career in the ring.


- Original Message - 
From: Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 24, 2005 14:35
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin


 JT wrote:
  Lance I find it curious that no matter what the
  subject you are ALWAYS able to revert the discussion
  back to
something critical of David Miller.

 Judy asserts an interesting point there, Lance. Isn't
 that called a red herring?

 Also, you seem to equate cultural awareness with
 cultural brainwashing. I am not persuaded by the elite
 media, nor the liberalism of our foreign neighbors.
 You imply that if only my father or myself KNEW the
 popular, anti-American sentiments of today, we would
 then have no choice but to agree.

 Now, why don't you answer Judy's response about
 someone always paying the price? Her point was
 excellent and I have a feeling that is why you
 reverted to a logical fallacy.


 Blessings,

 Christine

 PS- My father is not culturally unaware. He is my best
 friend. You speak of him as if he were barely human,
 and you seem to scorn the Lord's annointing on him.

 --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Why? By osmosis she just might, via her peers,
  assimilate some cultural awareness.
- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: May 24, 2005 07:02
Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin
 
 
Lance I find it curious that no matter what the
  subject you are ALWAYS able to revert the discussion
  back to
something critical of David Miller. So you don't
  believe he has a spiritual gifting? This reflects
  more upon where
you are than whether or not he is used by God in
  this dimension.  Also you are doubletalking.  You
  just got
through calling Christine a carbon copy of her dad
  - so why would she need to be briefing him IYO?  jt
 
On Tue, 24 May 2005 06:51:05 -0400 Lance Muir
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  The vortex of the whirlpool awaits. Why not ask
  'the prophet' if he sees connections where you and
  Iz do not? He just might surprize you. If he did, by
  the by then, he'd really surprize me! I believe him
  to be largely culturally disconnected. I trust that
  Christine briefs him when she's home.
From: Judy Taylor
 
Have you also tallied up third world debt?
  Money owed the US by other nations, and the cost of
  Canada's irresponsibility the times they opted out
  and reaped the benefits anyway?  Someone always pays
  the price... It is hopelessly naive to think that if
  noone does anything - things will right themselves.
  Would Europe be  Western today if Charles Martel had
  not beaten back the Islamic hoard when they got to
  Spain?  jt
 
On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:35:15 -0400 Lance
  Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Mr. Rogers says (from the neighborhood in
  the sky) 'hey kids, can we say seven trillion, nine
  hundred and thirty-seven billion?' Bankruptcy
  awaits.
From: Kevin Deegan
First you must have one.
 
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Why would we be? We are not invading
  countries to build an empire.
From: ShieldsFamily
I'm sure you and Canada are not being
  judged for anything at all.  How lovely for you.
  Izzy
 
 
From:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
  Of Lance Muir
You, collectively, are being judged
  now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom
  building (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist,
  gnostic approach to what should be an embodied
  gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge you.
 
  From: Judy Taylor
 
  Would you rather have mid east cloak
  and dagger along with muslim violence and insanity.
  Also how can you be
 
  so sure that God is not involved
  with what is happening in the middle east. How are
  you so sure it is not the time
 
  of Iraq's visitation?  Through
  history God has always used one nation to judge
  another.  Yes, the US will be
 
  judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME -
  Not Lance's.  jt
 
 
 
  On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:18:21 -0400
  Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin









So you actually acknowledge that there IS
a black and white??? Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:20
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
What is sin







Just so you know, I do know the difference between up/down
and black/white. Methinks you over generalize.







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: May 24, 2005 06:43





Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
What is sin











Are you angry withthe US or GWB
Lance? I've lived in Canada
twice and nothing has changed, still the





old inferiority complex and finding
things to be critical of over the border. BTW a critical spirit is not
from God, 





why not be grateful for the good
things? The US
isn't all bad, if it were ppl would not be risking their lives to come





here - neither is Canada all
good. If we looked under the surface we would find the same kind of corruption
on a





smaller scale - maybe even worse.
jt











On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:44:00 -0400 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





National debt anyone? They, it'd seem own you. The nations
to watch are China  India. Apart
from it's weaponry, the good old US of A pretty much produces nothing. Sorry,
agriculture is still a factor, globally.









From: ShieldsFamily






Ohhh, that! Yup.
Thats why we now own France,
Japan,
and most of the rest of the world. 







Lance Muir writes:
Why would we be? We are not invading countries to build an empire.













From: ShieldsFamily




























Im sure you and Canada are not being judged for
anything at all. How lovely for you. Izzy





Lance Muir
You, collectively, are being judged now for your consumerist, religious,
non-kingdom building (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to
what should be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge you.













From: Judy Taylor




































Would you rather have mid east cloak and
dagger along with muslim violence and insanity. Also how can you be





so sure that God is not involved with
what is happening in the middle east. How are you so sure it is not the time





of Iraq's visitation? Through
history God has always used one nation to judge another. Yes, the US
will be





judged also but - IN GOD'S TIME - Not
Lance's. jt











[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







'If' is the operative wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record,
it isn't looking hopeful. Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read
'plant bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle east
aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than God. 







From: ShieldsFamily










FYI, Lance, the Kingdom is
the rule and reign of Christ. If He rules and reigns in my life then I am
in his Kingdom. If GWB can be used to bring America more under the rule and
reign of Christ in one area or another then that is a good thing. God can
use anyone with a willing heart, including GWB. So dont be so
contemptuous. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir





Your last sentence is that which you, Judy, should take to
'heart'. You are in a kind of bondage along with D  I. Anyone who believe
that GWB is bringing in the kingdom is, I'm afraid, out to lunch.

Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is sin

Hmm...may I have time to prepare an 
answer?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: May 24, 2005 14:55
  Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] 
  What is sin

  So you actually 
  acknowledge that there IS a black and white??? 
  Izzy

  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:20 
  AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] What is 
  sin

  Just so you know, I do know the 
  difference between up/down and black/white. Methinks you over 
  generalize.

- Original Message - 

From: Judy 
Taylor 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: May 24, 
2005 06:43

Subject: [Bulk] 
[TruthTalk] What is sin

Are you angry withthe 
US or GWB Lance? I've lived 
in Canada twice and nothing has 
changed, still the

old inferiority complex and finding 
things to be critical of over the border. BTW a critical spirit is not 
from God, 

why not be grateful for the good 
things? The US isn't all bad, if it were ppl 
would not be risking their lives to come

here - neither is 
Canada all good. If we looked 
under the surface we would find the same kind of corruption on 
a

smaller scale - maybe even 
worse. jt

On Tue, 24 May 2005 04:44:00 -0400 "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

National debt anyone? They, it'd 
seem own you. The nations to watch are China  India. Apart 
from it's weaponry, the good old US of A pretty much produces nothing. 
Sorry, agriculture is still a factor, 
globally.

From: ShieldsFamily 

Ohhh, 
that! Yup. Thats why we now own France, Japan, and most of the rest 
of the world. 

Lance Muir 
writes:Why would we be? We are not 
invading countries to build an 
empire.

  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 

  Im sure you 
  and Canada are not being judged 
  for anything at all. How lovely for you. 
  Izzy

  Lance 
  MuirYou, collectively, are 
  being judged now for your consumerist, religious, non-kingdom building 
  (see Dallas Willard on this), dualist, gnostic approach to what should 
  be an embodied gospel. God may well be using 'them' to judge 
  you.

From: 
Judy Taylor 

Would you 
rather have mid east cloak and dagger along with muslim violence and 
insanity. Also how can you 
be

so sure that 
God is not involved with what is happening in the middle east. How 
are you so sure it is not the 
time

of Iraq's visitation? 
Through history God has always used one nation to judge 
another. Yes, the US will 
be

judged also but 
- IN GOD'S TIME - Not Lance's. 
jt

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  'If' is the operative 
  wordy, Izzy. Given GWB's track record, it isn't looking hopeful. 
  Under the guise of 'spreading democracy', (read 'plant 
  bases/troops near the oil supply) he has set much of the middle 
  east aflame.I'd say that the neo-cons have his ear more than 
  God. 

From: ShieldsFamily 

FYI, 
Lance, the Kingdom is the rule and reign of Christ. If 
He rules and reigns in my life then I am in his Kingdom. 
If GWB can be used to bring America more under 
the rule and reign of Christ in one area or another then that is 
a good thing. God can use anyone with a willing heart, 
including GWB. So dont be so contemptuous. 
Izzy

From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
Muir

Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

2005-05-24 Thread knpraise





It has nothing to do with "stamina" and everything with the wise expense of time."Toe to toe" is simply not what they (Bill, Slade, Caroline and Debbie desired). They clearly wanted discussion centered in honesty and issues. What did they get? Insults, condemnations and -- oh, did I say insults. The only reason why (I suppose) Cary, Lance and I are around is, perhaps, to give you all something to do on a personal level other than the devouring of yourselves. Me, personally, I can create my own issues and I am committed to your (you all on the right) repentance and return to the gospel of grace and reconciliation. 

With Love

John D Smithson
Pastor and Bishop
1st PCotFB


-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]comTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]innglory.orgSent: Tue, 24 May 2005 11:43:29 -0500Subject: FW: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation






J






Looks likethey don't havestamina equal to that ofthe Mormon boys :)

... jt

Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

2005-05-24 Thread knpraise

-Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 24 May 2005 14:14:33 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

John wrote:
What denominational association do you maintain

None.

John wrote:
... and/or What denominational association is the
church you now attend?

None. We are an apostolic church, not associated with any denomination. Cool - pentecostal ??

Have you ever read of the denominations mentioned in the Bible?
Denominations seem to cause more trouble than good. Absolutely.

John wrote:
Your answer to these questions has a lot to do
with how I respond to this post. You know
my affiliation. What is yours?

I know your affliction? :-) I know that you were affiliated in the past
with Church of Christ, but what is your affiliation now? I'm not sure of
that. C of C non-Boston Church type; But, currently Foursquare Inter'l -- mentioned several times.

My background includes Methodist, Nazarene, Charismatic, Presbyterian, some
Baptist, Pentecostal (Church of God), some Church of Christ The Boston CofC nonsense or ?, and several
independent home churches. I presently affiliate with no denominations and
have no plans to. I try whenever possible to help people detach themselves
from denominations. Well, we are kinda on the same page in that respect in spite of my Square affiliation

Peace be with you.
David Miller.

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how
you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend
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Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation




Well said Bishop. I spoke with The Theologian of 
Colorado this morning. I'm really quite excited about the possibilities. I'm 
gwine pass da word along for prayer on your behalf.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: May 24, 2005 15:15
  Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Fond 
  Farewells- Salvation
  
  
  
  
  
  
  It has nothing to do with "stamina" 
  and everything with the wise expense of 
  time."Toe to toe" is simply not what they (Bill, Slade, Caroline and Debbie desired). 
  They clearly wanted discussion centered in honesty and issues. 
  What did they get? Insults, condemnations and -- oh, did I say 
  insults. The only reason why (I suppose) Cary, Lance and I are around is, perhaps, to give you all 
  something to do on a personal level other 
  than the devouring of yourselves. Me, personally, I can create my own issues and I am committed to your (you all on the 
  right) repentance and return to the gospel of grace and 
  reconciliation. 
  
  With Love
  
  John D Smithson
  Pastor and Bishop
  1st PCotFB
  
  
  -Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]comTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]innglory.orgSent: Tue, 24 May 2005 11:43:29 -0500Subject: FW: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- 
Salvation
  

  
  

  
  J
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Looks likethey don't 
  havestamina equal to that ofthe Mormon boys 
  :)
  
  ... jt

Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

John wrote:
 In you statment below, you initiate your discussion
 with falsehood  --  the claim that I am confused and
 you are not.

I'm not sure where you got that idea.  I don't see where I claimed that you 
were confused. You made the claim that the teaching of Christ to the 
apostles in John 20:22-23 does not include us.  I believe it does.  This 
doubt concerning the reality of the kingdom of God is at the crux of our 
difference.

John wrote:
 Grade school combat tactics.   Just plain silly.
 Why did Bill leave -- and probably Caroline
 and Debbie?  They got of the tactic win at all
 costs.   ... you argue like a school kid.
 Here's the probelm, John  --  I am better than
 you.   Aaahh, no you're not ?  YES I AM
 AM !!!'No you're not.   Yes I am too.
 See the second grade tactic.?

No.  You misunderstand me.  I have an interest in abiding in the apostles' 
doctrine.  I see what they teach as being applicable to me.  You do not view 
all of their teachings as being applicable to you.  Don't you think this 
might cause us to approach Scripture differently?

John wrote:
 David says Oh, now I see the crux of the matter:
 I follow the Bible and John doe not.   Great response.

LOL.  You start off your post claiming that I started my post with 
falsehood, but you are the one starting off with falsehood.  I made no 
claims about me following the Bible and you not following it.  You asked for 
Scriptural foundation for where we might have knowledge of someone's eternal 
destiny.  I gave you two examples.  You then claimed that we are not 
included in them because the apostles had a different relationship than we 
do with the Lord.  I responded that this is the crux of our difference.  I 
believe that their teaching does apply to us.  Personally, I think you do 
try to follow the Bible, but in a less pragmatic way than I do.

John wrote:
 Perhaps intellectually challenging to some in your camp,
 but it is a response that avoids the conflict,  builds you
 up in your own eyes (and Izzy's   --   she will now say
 that I was defeat simply because you said I was confused.)

Maybe you need to quote me where I said you were confused.  I looked over 
the post but I don't see it.  On the other hand, maybe it does not matter 
because now I do think you are confused.  You are avoiding discussing our 
differences by imagining that I am attacking you when all I did was make the 
observation that I believe in abiding in the apostles' doctrine while you 
believe they walked in something different than us.

John wrote:
 In P3,  you argue that you are in the apostles teaching
 and I am not.

You said that the apostles had a very different relationship with the Christ 
than we do.

John wrote:
 You do not teach justification apart from obedience to law.

Yes I do.

John wrote:
 You do not teach Christ as a substitute for in terms
 of faith and righteousness.

Correct, Christ is not a substitute for faith and righteousness in our 
lives.

John wrote:
 You do not believe the law to be a burden
 although Peter felt this way.

I believe that the covenant of law is a burden but that the law itself is 
perfect and leads us to faith in Christ.

John wrote:
 You think hell in somewhere near Compton.

Negative.  I've been to Compton and so I realize how people might think 
that, but I believe that hell is in the heart of the earth.

John wrote:
 You do not know the fdifference between the old
 sacrifices and the new.

Sorry for my ignorance.  Maybe you can enlighten me.

John wrote:
 You consider yourself an apostles on a par
 with Paul and Peter !!!

Negative.

John wrote:
 You tout the rationalism of your thinking and call it enlightenment.

Negative.  Enlightenment is the term Bill Taylor used for how I think.

John wrote:
 I could go on   -   or
 would you prefer discussing the issue?

I would prefer discussing the issue.

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation

John wrote:
 What David does in this response is clear;  he manifests
 his lack of concern for either myself or the actual discussion.

Lighten up, John.  I care about you.

John wrote:
 This comment This is the crux of our difference then:  doubt and
 unbelief concerning the reality of the kingdom of God is not an
 honest attempt at dialogue for it was not written with me in mind.
 Rather, it was written with David's audience in mind.   Smithson
 must be stopped  --   his gospel of humanism (apparently words
 with more than four letters have definitions that often escape David's
 comprehension).   He knows, full well, that I do not agree with his
 statement (above.)   Only an idiot would think this statement would
 carry merit with me  --   and we all know that David is no idiot.
 So what is left.   David protecting his church kind of like the Apostle
 Peter or the Apostle Paul   --   we have the Apostle Miller.
 Correct me if I am wrong  -  seriously.

You are very wrong.  You seem to assume that discussions must start with 
some point of agreement.  Our point of agreement is that the Bible is a 
source of truth.  Where we depart is how we apply the Bible to our lives.  I 
hope that pointing out the disconnect between following the Bible and then 
disbelieving certain teachings of the Bible as being applicable to us would 
give you pause to reconsider your position.

John wrote:
 The notion that David walks in the apostles doctrine to
 a degree that I do not is both untrue and arrogant.

Then  why did you say that their teachings do not include us and that their 
relationship to the Christ is different from ours?  Clearly we walk in the 
doctrine differently.

John wrote:
 His need for repentance is clear.

What do you want me to repent of?

John wrote:
 The Great commission was given to His apostles -
 the 12.  Ditto for John 20:22-23  -- we know this to
 be the case because the text is specific as to whom it
 is He is talking to (syntax, David -- like it?).

The text also commands them to teach us to walk in all those things that he 
taught them.

John wrote:
 Anyway  -  I share  the gospel message because of what
 I have learned in the letter to the Romans.   Chapter one  -
 the gospel is God 's power in saving man and, again in
 chapter ten    how shall the hear without an evangel.
 More than that  --   we are all given to the ministry of
 reconciliation.The Great Commission per se has little
 to do with you and I.

Speak for yourself, John.  Some of us believe that the Great Commission 
has meaning for us too.

John wrote:
 Acts 2:38ff tells us the promised spirit is for all.   The indwelling
 of the spirit is evidenced by any number of gifted manifestations
 from love, joy, peace, kindness, gentleness to prophecy, the
 speaking in tongues and even hospitality.
 JD
 Pastor of the New Perichoretic Church of the First Born
 California Branch
 Bs, Ma and , well .  BS again
 Please note: this new Christian Denom will have no congregations
 in the area of Compton unless and until hell freezes over.

Oh, so you accuse me of usurping apostolic authority while you create a new 
Christian denomination?

Sorry you got upset, John.  Maybe we can get back to the discussion some day 
about whether or not the teaching of the apostles include us.

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation




John wrote:
 It has nothing to do with "stamina" and everything 
 with the wise expense of time.

I 
think this reason is closer to the truth than anything else said about why some 
people leave TruthTalk while others hang around. I have been tempted to 
leave myself many times. :-)

Peace be with you.David 
Miller.

Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells- Salvation