subject:"RE\: \[TruthTalk\] The passion of Christ"

I found out through a"Fundamental News" service, I recieve.
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fbns-index/index2fbns.htm
It has these artcles:
Mel Gibsons Film: The Passion of the ChristMore About Mel Gibsons MovieThe Passion of Christ: Mel Gibsons Vivid DeceptioPositive Responses to my Warnings about Mel Gibsons MoviTestimony of a Pastor who is using Mel Gibsons movie for Evangelism

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/melgibson-thepassion.html
at the end of this article
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Where did you find the information about the women Kevin?
I've read that Monica Belluci who played Mary is Jewish and 
the daughter of holocaust survivors... Judy

From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ez 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/calthomas/ct20030805.shtmlCal Thomas says: "The film is an intense two hours. It uses unknown actors, which keeps the focus on the message."

Well they are not really that unknown.
3 of the main actresses areItalian Hardcore Porn Stars
I have to wonder if this whole thing is a hoax on Christians.

God really must have his hands all over this production.
Ezekiel 8:13-14 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do. Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORDS house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. 

Prov 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.
How much will it take to make you discern what is profane?


Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. 
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster.

Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

DAVIDM says You are making this way too complicated with your comments
So I checked some sites on the internet. Maybe this will make it clear easily understood. Judy, it really is not that complicated can't you see that? LOL
These sites explanations, sound like a bunch of PAGAN Mumbo Jumbo to me.
http://www.scoba.us/resources/aleppo.asp It is so simple they needed a council of Experts to come together to come up with a Common Date for Easter
http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7050.asp Nothing challenges the credibility of this fact to non-believers more than the scandal of our division on this point of celebration. In the ardent desire to address this problematic and troubling reality, the following contribution is offered.Almost from the very beginning of the existence of the Christian Church, the issue regarding the date of our Lord's death and resurrection presented variations. Although the New Testament relates these events to the Jewish Passover, the details of this relationship are not clear. On the one hand, the tradition of the synoptic gospels identifies the Lord's last supper with His disciples as a passover meal. This would place the death of our Lord on the day after Passover. On the other hand, the tradition of the gospel of St. John situates the death of our Lord at
the very hour the paschal lambs were sacrificed on the day of Passover itself. This variation in the interpretation of the scriptures led to two different practices. The one observed Pascha on the day of Passover, regardless of the day of the week. The other observed it on the Sunday following Passover. By the 4th century, the latter practice prevailed throughout the Church universally; nevertheless, differences continued to exist.In response to this ongoing problem, the First Ecumenical Council convened at Nicaea in 325 took up the issue. It determined that Pascha should be celebrated on the Sunday which follows the first full moon after the vernal equinox-the actual beginning of spring. If the full moon happens to fall on a Sunday, Pascha is observed the following Sunday. The day taken to be the invariable date of the vernal equinox is March 21. Hence, the determination of the date of Pascha is governed by a process dependent on the vernal equinox and the phase of
the moon.Another factor which figures prominently in determining the date of Pascha is the date of Passover. Originally, Passover was celebrated on the first full moon after the vernal equinox. Christians, therefore, celebrated Pascha according to the same calculation-that is, on the first Sunday after the first full moon following the vernal equinox. The correlation between the date of Pascha and the date of Passover is clear. Our Lord's death and resurrection coincided with Passover, thereby assuring a secure point of reference in time. This assurance lasted, however, only for a short time.Events in Jewish history contributing to the dispersion of the Jews had as a consequence a departure from the way Passover was reckoned at the time of our Lord's death and resurrection. This caused the Passover to precede the vernal equinox in some years. It was, in fact, this anomaly which led to the condemnation reflected in Canon 1 of Antioch (ca. 330) and Canon 7 of
the Holy Apostles (late 4th century) of those who celebrate Pascha "with the Jews." The purpose of this condemnation was to prevent Christians from taking into account the calculation of Passover in determining the date of Pascha.Most Christians eventually ceased to regulate the observance of Pascha by the Jewish Passover. Their purpose, of course, was to preserve the original practice of celebrating Pascha following the vernal equinox. Thus, the Council of Nicaea sought to link the principles for determining the date of Pascha to the norms for calculating Passover during our Lord's lifetime.Despite the intervention of Nicaea, certain differences in the technicalities of regulating the date of Pascha remained even thereafter. This resulted occasionally in local variations until, by the 6th century, a more secure mode of calculation based on astronomical data was universally accepted. This was an alternative to calculating Pascha by the Passover and consisted in the
creation of so-called "paschal cycles." Each paschal cycle corresponded to a certain number of years. Depending upon the number of years in the cycle, the full moon occurred on the same day of the year as at the beginning of the cycle with some exceptions. The more accurate the cycle, the less frequent were the exceptions. In the East, a 19-year cycle was eventually adopted, whereas in the West an 84-year cycle. The use of two different paschal cycles inevitably gave way to differences between the Eastern and Western Churches regarding the observance of Pascha.A further cause for these differences was the adoption by the Western Church of the Gregorian Calendar in the 16th century. This took place in order to adjust the

Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

2004-03-04 Thread elextech


 LOL !

 Gal 4:9-11.

vincent j. fulton


On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 04:55:34 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
DAVIDM says You are making this way too complicated with your comments
So I checked some sites on the internet. Maybe this will make it clear 
easily understood. Judy, it really is not that complicated can't you see
that? LOL
These sites explanations, sound like a bunch of PAGAN Mumbo Jumbo to me.
http://www.scoba.us/resources/aleppo.asp  It is so simple they needed a
council of Experts to come together to come up with a Common Date for
Easter
http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7050.asp  Nothing
challenges the credibility of this fact to non-believers more than the
scandal of our division on this point of celebration. In the ardent
desire to address this problematic and troubling reality, the following
contribution is offered.

Almost from the very beginning of the existence of the Christian Church,
the issue regarding the date of our Lord's death and resurrection
presented variations. Although the New Testament relates these events to
the Jewish Passover, the details of this relationship are not clear. On
the one hand, the tradition of the synoptic gospels identifies the Lord's
last supper with His disciples as a passover meal. This would place the
death of our Lord on the day after Passover. On the other hand, the
tradition of the gospel of St. John situates the death of our Lord at the
very hour the paschal lambs were sacrificed on the day of Passover
itself. This variation in the interpretation of the scriptures led to two
different practices. The one observed Pascha on the day of Passover,
regardless of the day of the week. The other observed it on the Sunday
following Passover. By the 4th century, the latter practice prevailed
throughout the Church universally; nevertheless, differences continued to
exist.

In response to this ongoing problem, the First Ecumenical Council
convened at Nicaea in 325 took up the issue. It determined that Pascha
should be celebrated on the Sunday which follows the first full moon
after the vernal equinox-the actual beginning of spring. If the full moon
happens to fall on a Sunday, Pascha is observed the following Sunday. The
day taken to be the invariable date of the vernal equinox is March 21.
Hence, the determination of the date of Pascha is governed by a process
dependent on the vernal equinox and the phase of the moon.

Another factor which figures prominently in determining the date of
Pascha is the date of Passover. Originally, Passover was celebrated on
the first full moon after the vernal equinox. Christians, therefore,
celebrated Pascha according to the same calculation-that is, on the first
Sunday after the first full moon following the vernal equinox. The
correlation between the date of Pascha and the date of Passover is clear.
Our Lord's death and resurrection coincided with Passover, thereby
assuring a secure point of reference in time. This assurance lasted,
however, only for a short time.

Events in Jewish history contributing to the dispersion of the Jews had
as a consequence a departure from the way Passover was reckoned at the
time of our Lord's death and resurrection. This caused the Passover to
precede the vernal equinox in some years. It was, in fact, this anomaly
which led to the condemnation reflected in Canon 1 of Antioch (ca. 330)
and Canon 7 of the Holy Apostles (late 4th century) of those who
celebrate Pascha with the Jews. The purpose of this condemnation was to
prevent Christians from taking into account the calculation of Passover
in determining the date of Pascha.

Most Christians eventually ceased to regulate the observance of Pascha by
the Jewish Passover. Their purpose, of course, was to preserve the
original practice of celebrating Pascha following the vernal equinox.
Thus, the Council of Nicaea sought to link the principles for determining
the date of Pascha to the norms for calculating Passover during our
Lord's lifetime.

Despite the intervention of Nicaea, certain differences in the
technicalities of regulating the date of Pascha remained even thereafter.
This resulted occasionally in local variations until, by the 6th century,
a more secure mode of calculation based on astronomical data was
universally accepted. This was an alternative to calculating Pascha by
the Passover and consisted in the creation of so-called paschal cycles.
Each paschal cycle corresponded to a certain number of years. Depending
upon the number of years in the cycle, the full moon occurred on the same
day of the year as at the beginning of the cycle with some exceptions.
The more accurate the cycle, the less frequent were the exceptions. In
the East, a 19-year cycle was eventually adopted, whereas in the West an
84-year cycle. The use of two different paschal cycles inevitably gave
way to differences between the Eastern and Western Churches regarding the
observance of Pascha.

A further cause for these

Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

2004-03-04 Thread Judy Taylor




Thanks Kevin but I didn't find it on any of these, are the
articles he sends out different? I used to beon his mailing 
list a long
time ago; am thankful that someoneis sounding the alarm

Judy

From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I found out through a"Fundamental News" service, I recieve.
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fbns-index/index2fbns.htm
It has these artcles:
Mel Gibsons Film: The Passion of the ChristMore About Mel Gibsons 
MovieThe Passion 
of Christ: Mel Gibsons Vivid DeceptioPositive 
Responses to my Warnings about Mel Gibsons MoviTestimony of a Pastor 
who is using Mel Gibsons movie for Evangelism

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/melgibson-thepassion.html
at the end of this article
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

  
  Where did you find the information about the women Kevin?
  I've read that Monica Belluci who played Mary is Jewish and 
  the daughter of holocaust survivors... Judy
  
  From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Ez 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between 
  the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the 
  clean.
  http://www.townhall.com/columnists/calthomas/ct20030805.shtmlCal 
  Thomas says: "The film is an intense two hours. It uses unknown actors, which 
  keeps the focus on the message."
  
  Well they are not really that unknown.
  3 of the main actresses areItalian Hardcore Porn Stars
  I have to wonder if this whole thing is a hoax on Christians.
  
  God really must have his hands all over this production.
  Ezekiel 8:13-14 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, 
  and thou shalt see greater abominations that 
  they do. Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORDS house which 
  was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women 
  weeping for Tammuz. 
  
  Prov 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man 
  looketh well to his going.
  How much will it take to make you discern what is profane?
  
  
  Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking 
  for faster. 


Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for 
faster.

Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ




Blaine: No, I am judging you for being 
judgemental for me being judgemental for you being judgemental for me being 
judgemental. (:)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:15 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of 
  Christ
  
  Are you Judging me for being 
  Judgemental?Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  



Kevin, you are so holy and righteous, I 
sometimes wonder that you are still among the livng. 

Here is a little ditty you may have overlooked 
in becoming so holy and pure, however:

Judge not that ye be not judged, for with 
whatsoever measure you give out, it shall be measured to you again." 
Or words to that effect

Peace, and Shalom, Blaine 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 5:52 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The passion 
  of Christ
  
  I am concerned for others, who may be decieved.
  
  I also believe in thedoctrine of separation.
  Ez 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine 
  holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, 
  neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and 
  have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among 
  them.
  
  There are some thinking that revival is going to brake out. God would 
  not use a profane person like Joe Smith nor Mel. Nor would he use anything 
  tainted with a little bit of falsehood. God is HOLY HOLY HOLY. God 
  doesnot eat the meat  spit out the bones. 
  What scripture teaches that?A Little leaven leavens the whole 
  lump!
  
  So then faith cometh by seeing and seeing by the Celluloid?
  Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  


  
  
From: 
Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Saturday, February 28, 
2004 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 
    passion of Christ

The catholics are saying it is a "wonderful depiction of the 
Blessed Mothers ROLE in our Redemption"

The saint (I forget her name right now ) that comes out 
to wipe Jesus face is a story from the Apocrypha miraculously (in 
this well known story to the RC faithful) the face of Jesus ends up 
impressed on this shroud.

I read some catholic posts about how it was faithful to the 
stations of the cross. If all this is going on at a sub level does 
that mean the viewers are participating in the 14 
stations?
The story movie draws from the mystic visionary German Nun 
Emmerich. The script was developed by a Roman catholic priest. 
Sounds too religious for me.Why do I need celluloid when 
I have the Holy Scriptures that will never lead me astray?
==
Hey Kevin:Nothing wrong with 
playing it safe. You can't go wrong if you stick strictly to 
the scriptures, and the scriptures are really all that we 
need. By sticking strictly to God's Holy word, you may limit 
yourself somewhat, but everything you need to know is there in that 
one book. At one time, I would have fully supported your 
position. There 
was a time when I would listen to a preacher, or read a book, or see 
an earlier movie abour the Christ, and at the first inconsistancy, I 
would mentally turn off the preacher, or put down the book, or walk 
out of the movie.

One evening when I was teaching 
a Bible class at the local prison, we got to discussing exactly 
that, and I got some of the best advice from one of the inmates that 
I ever got. He said, "Just eat the meat, and spit out the 
bones". That may not be the best advice for a new Christian 
who is not sure what to believe, but for a mature Christian who is 
certain of what he or she believes, it is excellent 
advice. If you are strong enough to shrug off the 
inconsistancies and move forward, you will often find a 
blessing. Sometimes you have to pick out more bones than 
others, but there is often a tasty morsel waiting when you are 
done. You are a mature Christian. No one is going 
to turn you into a Catholic.
Think about 
that.
Terry

Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

Amen...

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LOL ! Gal 4:9-11. vincent j. fulton
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
LOL !Gal 4:9-11.vincent j. fultonOn Thu, 4 Mar 2004 04:55:34 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes:DAVIDM says You are making this way too complicated with your commentsSo I checked some sites on the internet. Maybe this will make it clear easily understood. Judy, it really is not that complicated can't you seethat? LOLThese sites explanations, sound like a bunch of PAGAN Mumbo Jumbo to me.http://www.scoba.us/resources/aleppo.asp It is so simple they needed acouncil of Experts to come together to come up with a Common Date forEasterhttp://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7050.asp Nothingchallenges the credibility of this fact to non-believers more than thescandal of our division on this point of celebration. In the ardentdesire to address this problematic and troubling
reality, the followingcontribution is offered.Almost from the very beginning of the existence of the Christian Church,the issue regarding the date of our Lord's death and resurrectionpresented variations. Although the New Testament relates these events tothe Jewish Passover, the details of this relationship are not clear. Onthe one hand, the tradition of the synoptic gospels identifies the Lord'slast supper with His disciples as a passover meal. This would place thedeath of our Lord on the day after Passover. On the other hand, thetradition of the gospel of St. John situates the death of our Lord at thevery hour the paschal lambs were sacrificed on the day of Passoveritself. This variation in the interpretation of the scriptures led to twodifferent practices. The one observed Pascha on the day of Passover,regardless of the day of the week. The other observed it on the Sundayfollowing Passover. By the 4th century, the
latter practice prevailedthroughout the Church universally; nevertheless, differences continued toexist.In response to this ongoing problem, the First Ecumenical Councilconvened at Nicaea in 325 took up the issue. It determined that Paschashould be celebrated on the Sunday which follows the first full moonafter the vernal equinox-the actual beginning of spring. If the full moonhappens to fall on a Sunday, Pascha is observed the following Sunday. Theday taken to be the invariable date of the vernal equinox is March 21.Hence, the determination of the date of Pascha is governed by a processdependent on the vernal equinox and the phase of the moon.Another factor which figures prominently in determining the date ofPascha is the date of Passover. Originally, Passover was celebrated onthe first full moon after the vernal equinox. Christians, therefore,celebrated Pascha according to the same calculation-that is, on the
firstSunday after the first full moon following the vernal equinox. Thecorrelation between the date of Pascha and the date of Passover is clear.Our Lord's death and resurrection coincided with Passover, therebyassuring a secure point of reference in time. This assurance lasted,however, only for a short time.Events in Jewish history contributing to the dispersion of the Jews hadas a consequence a departure from the way Passover was reckoned at thetime of our Lord's death and resurrection. This caused the Passover toprecede the vernal equinox in some years. It was, in fact, this anomalywhich led to the condemnation reflected in Canon 1 of Antioch (ca. 330)and Canon 7 of the Holy Apostles (late 4th century) of those whocelebrate Pascha "with the Jews." The purpose of this condemnation was toprevent Christians from taking into account the calculation of Passoverin determining the date of Pascha.Most Christians
eventually ceased to regulate the observance of Pascha bythe Jewish Passover. Their purpose, of course, was to preserve theoriginal practice of celebrating Pascha following the vernal equinox.Thus, the Council of Nicaea sought to link the principles for determiningthe date of Pascha to the norms for calculating Passover during ourLord's lifetime.Despite the intervention of Nicaea, certain differences in thetechnicalities of regulating the date of Pascha remained even thereafter.This resulted occasionally in local variations until, by the 6th century,a more secure mode of calculation based on astronomical data wasuniversally accepted. This was an alternative to calculating Pascha bythe Passover and consisted in the creation of so-called "paschal cycles."Each paschal cycle corresponded to a certain number of years. Dependingupon the number of years in the cycle, the full moon occurred on the sameday of the year as at the
beginning of the cycle with some exceptions.The more accurate the cycle, the less frequent were the

Re: Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:18 
  PM
  Subject: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The passion 
  of Christ

  It's not a guess Blaine - it actuallycomes from the horses' mouth 
  as it
  wasthe RCC who fixed these dates. The RCC were also in control when 
  both
  Gregorian and Julian calenders were accepted. I must have missed 
  your
  "full moon" message. Upon what do you base your belief?

  Blaine: Full 
  Moon? Hey you guys, there is ALWAYS a full moon on the night of the 
  Passover!!! LOL You guys need to bone up on your calendar 
  lore--the Jewish calendar is what is known as a solar-lunar calendar--Lunar, 
  because each Jewish month begins with anew 
  moon. Solar, because it is kept in sync with the Vernal (Spring) 
  Equinox by adding a lunar month every six years. The first month of the 
  calendar, called Nisan, begins with the new moon closest to the Vernal 
  Equinox, and then the Passover is always held on 15 Nisan. Since a lunar 
  month averages 30 days, this places the Passover smack dab in the middle of 
  the month--when the moon is at full phase!! Always. Take my word for it, as an old Mormon boy who 
  holds a temple recommend! 
  LOL

  From: "Blaine Borrowman" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Good guess, Judy, but as I have shown in a recent 
  post, the moon is always full on Passover. 
  Blaine

From: 
Judy 
Taylor 
From: "Terry Clifton" [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
making me wonder how the full moon figured in the 
story.  It is historically accurate that there was a 
full moon on that night.

Judy:
It has nothing to dowith history; this comes fromastronomy 
and RC 
Liturgy. There are two different calendersand some disagreement 
so 
apparently they use astronomy/astrology to determine what day to 
celebrate Pascha (see below quotefrom a French RC 
theologian)
quote: 

"The Christian Church, apparently from Apostolic times, began to fix 
the 
date of Pascha (Sunday) precisely in relation to light. For example, 
the 
feast of the Nativity of Christ (IV c.) was fixed as December 25, the 
day 
of the Winter solstice when sunlight begins to increase. (It was also a 
pagan feast for the same reason.) As for the 
sacred day of Pascha, here 
the moon also plays a part. The Sunday of the 
year that falls immediately 
after a full moon when it occurs not earlier than 
the vernal equinox is set 
aside as the feast of Pascha. 
  Terry wrote:   As He finishes 
praying, a large snake crawls up   to him and He stomps on 
it's head. At that point,   I was ready to walk out, 
but I am glad I stayed.

Judy:
The more I research the less I see a connection between this film 
and
reality no matter what the masses say.

Yesterday I thumbed througha photo/book of the film at 
Walmart;
At Gethsemanescripture says "he fell on his face" so I would 
never 
picture him looking as though he were baying at a full moon. Also 
his
stepping on a snake sounds 'hokey' to me. The concept is a 
spiritual
one that this is inadequate to communicate.

I was alsosurprised to seeJesus and his 
apostlessitting on chairs 
around a table like we use at what is supposed to be the Last Supper 
-
even I know (without research) that they used to eat in a reclining 

position on pillows. 

The clothing isalso disturbingbecausewomen back then 
used to
adorn themselves by wearingornaments on their clothing and their 

garments werevaried in color (remember Lydia in the book of 
Acts?).
In the Gibsonmovie the women areall in black chador like 
robes
looking like a bunch of nuns andthey have Jesuswearing this 
brown 
raggedy thing on his way to Golgotha. Where is the one piece tunic 

under the outer garment that he wore or even the purple robe they 

put on him with the crown of thorns at the Courthouse? 

Kevin thank you for your input - IMO there is a whole lot going on 
here
that we areignorant ofbecause we have no frame of reference 
and we 
need to be Berean or we will wind up like Israel not knowing our right 

hand from the left and perishing for lack of knowledge. It's our 
God
given responsiblity to check these things by the Word of God.

Grace and Peace,
Judy

Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

You are so JUDGEMENTAL!
So you send me a scripture telling me not to be Judgemental? Can you not see the FOOLISHNESS of your assertion? Since you are making a judgement, in the process.
Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Blaine: No, I am judging you for being judgemental for me being judgemental for you being judgemental for me being judgemental. (:)

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

Are you Judging me for being Judgemental?Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Kevin, you are so holy and righteous, I sometimes wonder that you are still among the livng. 

Here is a little ditty you may have overlooked in becoming so holy and pure, however:

Judge not that ye be not judged, for with whatsoever measure you give out, it shall be measured to you again." Or words to that effect

Peace, and Shalom, Blaine 

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 5:52 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

I am concerned for others, who may be decieved.

I also believe in thedoctrine of separation.
Ez 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

There are some thinking that revival is going to brake out. God would not use a profane person like Joe Smith nor Mel. Nor would he use anything tainted with a little bit of falsehood. God is HOLY HOLY HOLY. God doesnot eat the meat  spit out the bones. 
What scripture teaches that?A Little leaven leavens the whole lump!

So then faith cometh by seeing and seeing by the Celluloid?
Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

From: Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

The catholics are saying it is a "wonderful depiction of the Blessed Mothers ROLE in our Redemption"

The saint (I forget her name right now ) that comes out to wipe Jesus face is a story from the Apocrypha miraculously (in this well known story to the RC faithful) the face of Jesus ends up impressed on this shroud.

I read some catholic posts about how it was faithful to the stations of the cross. If all this is going on at a sub level does that mean the viewers are participating in the 14 stations?
The story movie draws from the mystic visionary German Nun Emmerich. The script was developed by a Roman catholic priest. Sounds too religious for me.Why do I need celluloid when I have the Holy Scriptures that will never lead me astray?
==
Hey Kevin:Nothing wrong with playing it safe. You can't go wrong if you stick strictly to the scriptures, and the scriptures are really all that we need. By sticking strictly to God's Holy word, you may limit yourself somewhat, but everything you need to know is there in that one book. At one time, I would have fully supported your position. There was a time when I would listen to a preacher, or read a book, or see an earlier movie abour the Christ, and at the first inconsistancy, I would mentally turn off the preacher, or put down the book, or walk out of the movie.

One evening when I was teaching a Bible class at the local prison, we got to discussing exactly that, and I got some of the best advice from one of the inmates that I ever got. He said, "Just eat the meat, and spit out the bones". That may not be the best advice for a new Christian who is not sure what to believe, but for a mature Christian who is certain of what he or she believes, it is excellent advice. If you are strong enough to shrug off the inconsistancies and move forward, you will often find a blessing. Sometimes you have to pick out more bones than others, but there is often a tasty morsel waiting when you are done. You are a mature Christian. No one is going to turn you into a Catholic.
Think about that.
Terry

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Re: Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ




Blaine: The Passover for the year 2004 begins 
on the eve of April 5, and the actual Passover is the next day, April 6. 
Go to the site address I have shown below, input 6 April, 2004, and it will show 
the moon phase for that date.You may see for yourselfa full 
moon shown. 
Blaine

http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/vphase.html

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:18 
  PM
  Subject: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The passion 
  of Christ
  
  It's not a guess Blaine - it actuallycomes from the horses' mouth 
  as it
  wasthe RCC who fixed these dates. The RCC were also in control when 
  both
  Gregorian and Julian calenders were accepted. I must have missed 
  your
  "full moon" message. Upon what do you base your belief?
  
  
  From: "Blaine Borrowman" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Good guess, Judy, but as I have shown in a recent 
  post, the moon is always full on Passover. 
  Blaine
  

From: 
Judy 
Taylor 
From: "Terry Clifton" [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
making me wonder how the full moon figured in the 
story.  It is historically accurate that there was a 
full moon on that night.

Judy:
It has nothing to dowith history; this comes fromastronomy 
and RC 
Liturgy. There are two different calendersand some disagreement 
so 
apparently they use astronomy/astrology to determine what day to 
celebrate Pascha (see below quotefrom a French RC 
theologian)
quote: 

"The Christian Church, apparently from Apostolic times, began to fix 
the 
date of Pascha (Sunday) precisely in relation to light. For example, 
the 
feast of the Nativity of Christ (IV c.) was fixed as December 25, the 
day 
of the Winter solstice when sunlight begins to increase. (It was also a 
pagan feast for the same reason.) As for the 
sacred day of Pascha, here 
the moon also plays a part. The Sunday of the 
year that falls immediately 
after a full moon when it occurs not earlier than 
the vernal equinox is set 
aside as the feast of Pascha. 
  Terry wrote:   As He finishes 
praying, a large snake crawls up   to him and He stomps on 
it's head. At that point,   I was ready to walk out, 
but I am glad I stayed.

Judy:
The more I research the less I see a connection between this film 
and
reality no matter what the masses say.

Yesterday I thumbed througha photo/book of the film at 
Walmart;
At Gethsemanescripture says "he fell on his face" so I would 
never 
picture him looking as though he were baying at a full moon. Also 
his
stepping on a snake sounds 'hokey' to me. The concept is a 
spiritual
one that this is inadequate to communicate.

I was alsosurprised to seeJesus and his 
apostlessitting on chairs 
around a table like we use at what is supposed to be the Last Supper 
-
even I know (without research) that they used to eat in a reclining 

position on pillows. 

The clothing isalso disturbingbecausewomen back then 
used to
adorn themselves by wearingornaments on their clothing and their 

garments werevaried in color (remember Lydia in the book of 
Acts?).
In the Gibsonmovie the women areall in black chador like 
robes
looking like a bunch of nuns andthey have Jesuswearing this 
brown 
raggedy thing on his way to Golgotha. Where is the one piece tunic 

under the outer garment that he wore or even the purple robe they 

put on him with the crown of thorns at the Courthouse? 

Kevin thank you for your input - IMO there is a whole lot going on 
here
that we areignorant ofbecause we have no frame of reference 
and we 
need to be Berean or we will wind up like Israel not knowing our right 

hand from the left and perishing for lack of knowledge. It's our 
God
given responsiblity to check these things by the Word of God.

Grace and Peace,
Judy

RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

Kevin wrote:
 Who were these experts?

I don't have a list, Kevin, but I did see an evangelical professor (I
think he was from Dallas Theological Seminary) on Fox news who was
called in by Gibson to consult on the film.  I don't think Gibson
himself is that well versed in the Bible and history to get as much
right in the film as he did without calling in Biblical scholars to help
him.  

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ




Blaine: Reread my post. It mentions 
that the Jewish calendar is a solar-lunar calendar, and I explained whatis 
meant by that. The current names of the months on the Jewish calendar came 
from the Babylonian captivity--prior to that, only the first month had a name, 
whichwas Abib (see Ex13:4; 23:15). It means, "a greening,' or "a 
green head,"referring to the greening of the barley heads that were to be 
used in the firstfruits offering. Now that same month is called 
Nisan. But the actual calculating of the calendar has not changed 
much. The Babylonians evidentally used a similar calendar.
Peace, Shalom


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 11:17 
  PM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] The passion of 
  Christ
  
  OK Blaine, I read your first message and you claim the Jewish Calender 
  goes
  by the moon right? Only there are problems with this and the 
  calender they use presently
  is more Babylonian than it is Jewish and involves the sun as well as the 
  moon. I doubt Mel
  Gibson was consulting Jewish/Babylonian calenders.
  
  
  Keeping up with both Sun and Moon
  If the Jewish calendar only followed the Moon, it would get quickly out of 
  step with the seasons, which follow the cycle of the Sun--the holidays would 
  migrate and you might get Passover in the fall, Rosh Hashanah in the spring, 
  Chanukkah in mid-summer. That is what happens in the Moslem calendar, 
  which only follows the moon. 
  Consider the month of Ramadan, when observant Moslems fast from 
  sunrise to sundown. Ramadan this year was in early winter--the best time, 
  because days are short, nights are long, your fasts are short too and you do 
  not get too thirsty from heat. But wait 15 years! Then Ramadan will have 
  migrated to mid-summer, when days are at their longest, the heat makes you 
  quite thirsty (especially in countries like Arabia and Egypt), and fasting all 
  day long is a much greater ordeal. 
  But the ancient Babylonians found a way to keep up with both the moon and 
  the sun. Their priests were excellent astronomers--helped, no doubt, by the 
  clear skies in a country perched at the edge of the desert. 
  
  (By the way, the Jewish Talmudic sage Mar Shmuel, who lived in Babylonia in 
  the 3rd century, was also experienced in astronomy. He used to say "I am 
  familiar with the pathways of the heavens as I am familiar with the pathways 
  of [my home town] Nehard'a--except for the comet-star, I don't know what it 
  is.") 
  By the 9th century BCE, after centuries of observations, Babylonian 
  astronomers concluded that in a cycle of 19 years of 12 lunar months 
  each, if you added 7 more months, you returned almost exactly to the same 
  season. 
  Today this system is known as the Metonic cycle, because the Greek 
  astronomer Meton introduced it in Athens in the year 432 BCE. However, the 
  Babylonians already knew this 
  
  From: "Blaine Borrowman" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Good guess, Judy, but as I have shown in a recent 
  post, the moon is always full on Passover. 
  Blaine

RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

Judy wrote:
 You must not have read the post I sent explaining how 
 following the moon alone would put the calender off over 
 a period of time and passover would eventually wind up 
 in the fall - hence Babylonian adjustments.  It's not 
 me who is complicating things.

Yes, I read that Judy, right after I read Blaine explain it first in
better detail.  Every calendar student knows that Jews insert an
intercalary month to keep the seasons from migrating too far, but that
has absolutely NOTHING to do with a full moon on Passover.  The Jews
determine the beginning of the month by visual observation, and that
along with knowledge of how many days it takes for the moon to become
full is all you need to know to be sure that Passover has a full moon.  

I tire of arguing about the mundane and clearly understood things.  It
is like arguing that green is green and not blue.  I don't know why you
can't grasp the concept Judy, but I assure you that you are the one who
is complicating things here.  The rest of us men here seem to understand
it just fine, even though one is Mormon and one is not!  :-)

As for the movie, well it is just a movie.  It is not going to save
the world, nor is it going to damn people to hell.  It presents a part
of the gospel message and life of Jesus in a powerful way.  I hope we
don't sit around and criticize every little omission from a preacher's
sermon, and in like fashion, we should not be straining about all the
problems with this movie.  It is Mel Gibson's sermon about Christ, and I
for one testify that it is a pretty good sermon.  I don't care if he is
Roman Catholic or if he hired porn stars or if he conferred with witch
doctors.  I have seen the final product and I found it to be the best
movie about Jesus that I had ever seen.  I hope he does more of them.  I
would love to see him do a remake of the Ten Commandments movie that
Charlton Heston starred in.  That was very good too, but here we are
fifty years later and just look at how few movies preach Christ.  Could
it be that those who criticize the movies hinder men like Gibson from
fronting the millions of dollars needed to do them?  I hope you
reconsider your attitude toward the film.

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

Be careful, if you follow the links out.


http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/melgibson-thepassion.html
at the end of this article

Monica Bellucci, the actress who plays Mary Magdalene in Gibsons movie, has is a famous pornography star in Italy ( The Passion of the Christ: An International Hoax, http://www.watch-unto-prayer.org), and she has also played in R-rated movies in the States.Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Thanks Kevin but I didn't find it on any of these, are the
articles he sends out different? I used to beon his mailing list a long
time ago; am thankful that someoneis sounding the alarm

Judy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I found out through a"Fundamental News" service, I recieve.
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fbns-index/index2fbns.htm
It has these artcles:
Mel Gibsons Film: The Passion of the ChristMore About Mel Gibsons MovieThe Passion of Christ: Mel Gibsons Vivid DeceptioPositive Responses to my Warnings about Mel Gibsons MoviTestimony of a Pastor who is using Mel Gibsons movie for Evangelism

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/melgibson-thepassion.html
at the end of this article
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Where did you find the information about the women Kevin?
I've read that Monica Belluci who played Mary is Jewish and 
the daughter of holocaust survivors... Judy

From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ez 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/calthomas/ct20030805.shtmlCal Thomas says: "The film is an intense two hours. It uses unknown actors, which keeps the focus on the message."

Well they are not really that unknown.
3 of the main actresses areItalian Hardcore Porn Stars
I have to wonder if this whole thing is a hoax on Christians.

God really must have his hands all over this production.
Ezekiel 8:13-14 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do. Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORDS house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. 

Prov 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.
How much will it take to make you discern what is profane?


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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

Green is green
Blue is blue
Still, you see no difference between the HOLY the PROFANE
Which is whyyou see no doctrine of separation

If you want to watch movies inspired by OCCULTISTS
go for it.
I care not to indulge.

"Saul, by casting an amorous eye upon Agag, lost his crown and kingdom; Samson by dallying with his Delilah, lost his strength, sight, light, liberty and life. But what are these losses to thy loss of spiritual strength, to thy loss of communion with God, to thy loss of the Spirit of light, liberty, and glory; to thy loss of joy unspeakable, and peace that passeth understanding?" Thomas Brooks

"Set a strong guard about thy outward senses; these are Satan's landing places, especially the eye and the ear." William Gurnall
"Satan like a fisher, baits his hook according to the appetite of the fish." Thomas Adams
"It is better to have divisions than an evil uniformity." Walter Cradock

David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Judy wrote: You must not have read the post I sent explaining how following the moon alone would put the calender off over a period of time and passover would eventually wind up in the fall - hence Babylonian adjustments. It's not me who is complicating things.Yes, I read that Judy, right after I read Blaine explain it first inbetter detail. Every calendar student knows that Jews insert anintercalary month to keep the seasons from migrating too far, but thathas absolutely NOTHING to do with a full moon on Passover. The Jewsdetermine the beginning of the month by visual observation, and thatalong with knowledge of how many days it takes for the moon to becomefull is all you need to know to be sure that Passover has a full moon. I tire of arguing about the mundane and clearly understood things. Itis
like arguing that green is green and not blue. I don't know why youcan't grasp the concept Judy, but I assure you that you are the one whois complicating things here. The rest of us men here seem to understandit just fine, even though one is Mormon and one is not! :-)As for the movie, well it is just a movie. It is not going to savethe world, nor is it going to damn people to hell. It presents a partof the gospel message and life of Jesus in a powerful way. I hope wedon't sit around and criticize every little omission from a preacher'ssermon, and in like fashion, we should not be straining about all theproblems with this movie. It is Mel Gibson's sermon about Christ, and Ifor one testify that it is a pretty good sermon. I don't care if he isRoman Catholic or if he hired porn stars or if he conferred with witchdoctors. I have seen the final product and I found it to be the bestmovie about Jesus that I had ever seen. I hope
he does more of them. Iwould love to see him do a remake of the Ten Commandments movie thatCharlton Heston starred in. That was very good too, but here we arefifty years later and just look at how few movies preach Christ. Couldit be that those who criticize the movies hinder men like Gibson fromfronting the millions of dollars needed to do them? I hope youreconsider your attitude toward the film.Peace be with you.David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

What evidence is there that these UNKNOWN "Experts" guided Gibson?

But he sure is versed in Roman Catholicism.

Was there really a Satan Mother carrying a Divine Child? The androgenous Satan a woman with a mans voice?
On Primetime, Gibson said of this character: It's attractive, yet it's intimidating. Masculine yet feminine.

I say it is an ABOMINATION!

Can anybody explain this scene to me? Mary on one side the Satan mother with child on the other? Is it scriptural?

When Diane Sawyer asked Mel Gibson rhetorically, Its your hand in the film holding the nail?, he responded: It is, yeah.My left hand.In Italian, sinistra or sinister hand.ABC was showing footage from the film in which Gibsons left hand held the nail whichpierced the hand of Christ,as a hammer pounded it into the cross.
http://members.easyspace.com/oww/satan/Satanism/Osv/Osv.htm
"The term sinister is derived from Latin and translates as 'to the left' or in the context of the occult) in opposition to the status-quo. That which goes against the prevailing current."
Order of the Left Hand Path, which practices Black Magick and promotes rebellion against Christ and His Church. Its name represents brazen defiance of Matthew 25:41Then shall (Jesus) say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. To these Satanists, Left Hand Path means Anima/Yin, feminine principle of the universe, intuitive, receptive, dark and, according to the OSV, The sinister Way recognises the need to restore balance through opposition (heresy); to create through destruction... The best-known archetype of opposition to stasis is Satan...

David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin wrote: Who were these experts?I don't have a list, Kevin, but I did see an evangelical professor (Ithink he was from Dallas Theological Seminary) on Fox news who wascalled in by Gibson to consult on the film. I don't think Gibsonhimself is that well versed in the Bible and history to get as muchright in the film as he did without calling in Biblical scholars to helphim. Peace be with you.David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he
will be subscribed.
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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

Judy wrote:
 Can you tell me what day and what month Passover 
 was held in the year 33 AD?

The 14th of Nisan.

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

There is a CHART with all of them or you could write a program to figure it out.
Unless you are the RAINMAN then you could quote them without a chart, program or calendar. It's really simple you know.

Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Passover for this year wasn't the question,
Can you tell me what day and what month Passover was held in
theyear 33 AD? judyt


From: "Blaine Borrowman" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blaine: The Passover for the year 2004 begins on the eve of April 5, 
and the actual Passover is the next day, April 6. Go to the site address 
I have shown below, input 6 April, 2004, and it will show the moon phase 
for that date.You may see for yourselfa full moon shown. 
Blaine

http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/vphase.html

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:18 PM
Subject: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

It's not a guess Blaine - it actuallycomes from the horses' mouth as it
wasthe RCC who fixed these dates. The RCC were also in control when both
Gregorian and Julian calenders were accepted. I must have missed your
"full moon" message. Upon what do you base your belief?


From: "Blaine Borrowman" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Good guess, Judy, but as I have shown in a recent post, the moon is always full on Passover. 
Blaine

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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

See, David knew that right off the top of his head.

FTR I like Toyotas.David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Judy wrote: Can you tell me what day and what month Passover  was held in the year 33 AD?The 14th of Nisan.Peace be with you.David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

Kevin wrote:
 you see no difference between the HOLY  the PROFANE

On the contrary, this movie is showing me very clearly who is holy and
who is profane, who follows a religious spirit and who truly loves Jesus
Christ.

Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and
unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is
defiled. (Titus 1:15 KJV)

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

On the contrary, this movie is showing me very clearly who is holy andwho is profane, who follows a religious spirit and who truly loves JesusChrist.

EXACTLY!David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin wrote: you see no difference between the HOLY  the PROFANEOn the contrary, this movie is showing me very clearly who is holy andwho is profane, who follows a religious spirit and who truly loves JesusChrist.Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled andunbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience isdefiled. (Titus 1:15 KJV)Peace be with you.David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

Here is what Gibson said about your EXPERT THEORY:
http://www.hollywood.com/news/detail/article/1743917
Gibson has said he consulted with various experts before making the film and often times found contradictory opinions. "Since the experts canceled each other out, I was thrown back on my own resources to weigh the different arguments and decide for myself," Reuters reports Gibson said in one interview. 

http://www.abc.net.au/arts/news/artsnews_1052700.htm
"This is my version of what happened, according to the gospels AND what I wanted to show," Gibson told the US television network ABC this month. 
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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

2004-03-03 Thread David Miller

Kevin wrote:
 Just saying he was a devil.

You are side-stepping the issue.  I agree that Judas was a devil.  That
is the point.  If Judas was a devil, why didn't Jesus separate from him?
That seems to me to contradict your separatist doctrine.  Instead, Jesus
anointed him to preach and heal the sick, and he even paired him up with
another true apostle for ministry.

Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and
authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to
preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. (Luke 9:1-2 KJV)

And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two
and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits. (Mark 6:7 KJV)

... Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and
who should betray him.  (John 6:64 KJV)

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Fw: RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

2004-03-03 Thread Judy Taylor

Wait a minute - are you claiming that Jesus anointed Satan to
cast out Satan?

I don't think that could be right. Jesus said he cast out satan with the
finger of God.

Of course he knew before it happened who it would be but it had
to have been a progression and Satan didn't enter into him until
at the Last Supper.

jt



From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I agree that Judas was a devil.  That is the point.  
If Judas was a devil, why didn't Jesus separate from him?
That seems to me to contradict your separatist doctrine.  Instead, Jesus
anointed him to preach and heal the sick, and he even paired him up with
another true apostle for ministry.

Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and
authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to
preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. (Luke 9:1-2 KJV)
And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two
and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits. (Mark 6:7 KJV)

... Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and
who should betray him.  (John 6:64 KJV)
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

2004-03-03 Thread Kevin Deegan

By the way there are still a bunch of devils preaching today.David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin wrote: Just saying he was a devil.You are side-stepping the issue. I agree that Judas was a devil. Thatis the point. If Judas was a devil, why didn't Jesus separate from him?That seems to me to contradict your separatist doctrine. Instead, Jesusanointed him to preach and heal the sick, and he even paired him up withanother true apostle for ministry.Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power andauthority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them topreach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. (Luke 9:1-2 KJV)And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by twoand two; and gave them power over unclean spirits. (Mark 6:7 KJV)... Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, andwho should betray him. (John 6:64 KJV)Peace be with
 you.David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

2004-03-03 Thread Kevin Deegan


Ez 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/calthomas/ct20030805.shtmlCal Thomas says: "The film is an intense two hours. It uses unknown actors, which keeps the focus on the message."

Well they are not really that unknown.
3 of the main actresses areItalian Hardcore Porn Stars
I have to wonder if this whole thing is a hoax on Christians.

God really must have his hands all over this production.
Ezekiel 8:13-14 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do. Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORDS house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. 

Prov 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.
How much will it take to make you discern what is profane?
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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

2004-03-03 Thread David Miller

Kevin wrote:
 Since you do not hold to separatist view 
 then it is no problem

But since you do hold to the separatist view, it is a problem for you.
Why don't you abandon that false doctrine in the light of Scripture, or
why don't you at least modify your view to conform to Scripture?

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

2004-03-03 Thread David Miller

Kevin wrote:
 Not interested in UNITY with error.

I'm not interested in unity with error either.  More importantly, Jesus
was not interested in unity with error.  Yet, he did not separate from
Judas.  Would you have treated Judas like Jesus did?  If not, then
something is wrong with your doctrine.
 
Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

I am concerned for others, who may be decieved.

I also believe in thedoctrine of separation.
Ez 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

There are some thinking that revival is going to brake out. God would not use a profane person like Joe Smith nor Mel. Nor would he use anything tainted with a little bit of falsehood. God is HOLY HOLY HOLY. God doesnot eat the meat  spit out the bones. 
What scripture teaches that?A Little leaven leavens the whole lump!

So then faith cometh by seeing and seeing by the Celluloid?
Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





From: Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

The catholics are saying it is a "wonderful depiction of the Blessed Mothers ROLE in our Redemption"

The saint (I forget her name right now ) that comes out to wipe Jesus face is a story from the Apocrypha miraculously (in this well known story to the RC faithful) the face of Jesus ends up impressed on this shroud.

I read some catholic posts about how it was faithful to the stations of the cross. If all this is going on at a sub level does that mean the viewers are participating in the 14 stations?
The story movie draws from the mystic visionary German Nun Emmerich. The script was developed by a Roman catholic priest. Sounds too religious for me.Why do I need celluloid when I have the Holy Scriptures that will never lead me astray?
==
Hey Kevin:Nothing wrong with playing it safe. You can't go wrong if you stick strictly to the scriptures, and the scriptures are really all that we need. By sticking strictly to God's Holy word, you may limit yourself somewhat, but everything you need to know is there in that one book. At one time, I would have fully supported your position. There was a time when I would listen to a preacher, or read a book, or see an earlier movie abour the Christ, and at the first inconsistancy, I would mentally turn off the preacher, or put down the book, or walk out of the movie.

One evening when I was teaching a Bible class at the local prison, we got to discussing exactly that, and I got some of the best advice from one of the inmates that I ever got. He said, "Just eat the meat, and spit out the bones". That may not be the best advice for a new Christian who is not sure what to believe, but for a mature Christian who is certain of what he or she believes, it is excellent advice. If you are strong enough to shrug off the inconsistancies and move forward, you will often find a blessing. Sometimes you have to pick out more bones than others, but there is often a tasty morsel waiting when you are done. You are a mature Christian. No one is going to turn you into a Catholic.
Think about that.
Terry

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Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

If I see himI will.Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








http://www.christianitytoday.com/movies/commentaries/passion-melmarymothers.html
Mel Gibson told CHRISTIANITY TODAY: "I've been actually amazed at the way I would say the evangelical audience hashands downresponded to this film more than any other Christian group." What makes it so amazing, he says, is that "the film is so Marian."
Gibson goes beyond many Catholics when he calls her "a tremendous co-redemptrix and mediatrix."
Someone needs to sit down with Mel and show him in the Word where Mary needed a savior, just like the rest of us. 
Terry

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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

Kevin wrote:
 God would not use a profane person like Joe Smith 
 nor Mel. Nor would he use anything tainted with a 
 little bit of falsehood.

Then how do you explain Judas?  Was he not a successful preacher with
miracles of healing following his preaching?  Was he not truly chosen as
an apostle of Christ?

How do you explain heathen Cyrus?

Thus saith the LORD TO HIS ANOINTED, TO CYRUS, WHOSE RIGHT HAND I HAVE
HOLDEN, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of
kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not
be shut. (Isaiah 45:1 KJV)

That saith of Cyrus, HE IS MY SHEPHERD, AND SHALL PERFORM ALL MY
PLEASURE: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the
temple, Thy foundation shall be laid. (Isaiah 44:28 KJV)

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

OK excuse me God would not use a heathen to bring men His truth.
Sorry I was not explicit enough in my expalnation. Words are so tricky.David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin wrote: God would not use a profane person like Joe Smith  nor Mel. Nor would he use anything tainted with a  little bit of falsehood.Then how do you explain Judas? Was he not a successful preacher withmiracles of healing following his preaching? Was he not truly chosen asan apostle of Christ?How do you explain heathen Cyrus?Thus saith the LORD TO HIS ANOINTED, TO CYRUS, WHOSE RIGHT HAND I HAVEHOLDEN, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins ofkings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall notbe shut. (Isaiah 45:1 KJV)That saith of Cyrus, HE IS MY SHEPHERD, AND SHALL PERFORM ALL MYPLEASURE: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to thetemple, Thy foundation shall be laid. (Isaiah 44:28 KJV)Peace be with you.David Miller, Beverly Hills,
 Florida.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

re being prominently and excruciatingly displayed in the movie. . . .

Greek Orthodox Moon searching
http://www.wfn.org/2003/04/msg00221.html

Or maybe it has to do with good old PAGANISM
http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/2002/0402.htm

Wicca?
http://www.wiccanet.net/wicca/reading_room/wicca119.htm
Nowcomes theVernal Equinox,and theseason ofSpring reaches it's apex, halfway through its journey from Candlemas to Beltane
Her chief symbols were the bunny (both for fertility and because her worshipers saw a hare in the full moon) and the egg (symbolic of the cosmic egg of creation), images which Christians have been hard pressed to explain. Her holiday, the Eostara, was held on the Vernal Equinox Full Moon. Of course, the Church doesn't celebrate full moons, even if they do calculate by them, so they planted their Easter on the following Sunday. Thus, Easter is always the first Sunday, after the first Full Moon, after the Vernal

Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 6:55 PMSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ Terry wrote: Went to the movies today for the first time in about twenty-five years. Wow! I bet you never expected to break your long movie fast with an "R" rated film. :-) Terry wrote: making me wonder how the full moon figured in the story. It is historically accurate that there was a full moon on that night. Terry wrote: As He finishes praying, a large snake crawls up to him and He stomps on it's head. At that point, I was ready to walk out, but I am glad I stayed. Interesting. It was at this point
that I was satisfied that the movie I was now seeing would be a very good and Biblical movie. I was greatly moved and blessed by Gibson putting such a thing into the movie because prophetically, this is exactly what Jesus did. For a man to portray the prophetic along with the historical like this was a very good indicator to me. Besides, the way he made Christ first simply without any fear as the snake crawled upon him, then after resisting temptation and reaching some resolve, he quickly stomped the snake with little hesitation or carefulness, all this struck a chord with me. I guess I simply related to it and how temptation and the victorious outcome comes about. Terry wrote: My next thought was that "This goes far beyond my definition of love" Only God could love that much and only God could make such a sacrifice." I came out of that movie
with a new view. I now see sin more clearly than ever before, and the things that were once fun and exciting are now so ugly. The price He paid for the fun I had was way too high. The suffering was too much. None of us are worth it. See the movie. You will understand better than you have ever understood before. Very thought provoking comments, Terry. One day I would enjoy meeting you and spending an evening talking about the things of the Lord. I think I would learn a lot. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.===David: Thanks for telling me about the full moon that night. I was notaware of that before now.I also thank you for the kind comments, but I doubt that you would be muchimpressed. I am common as dirt.Terry--"Let your
speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

This movie is LOADED with "HIDDEN" meaning!

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/2002/carl-teichrib/5isis.htm
"Symbols are oracular formsmysterious patterns creating vortices in the substances of the invisible world. They are centers of a mighty force, figures pregnant with an awful power, which, when properly fashioned, loose fiery whirlwinds upon the earth. Manly P. Hall, Lectures on Ancient Philosophy, p.356. (A Freemason and influential occultist, Manly P. Hall was a leading figure in the quest for mystical knowledge.)







Occult Definition:



[n] supernatural forces and events and beings collectively; "She doesn't
 believe in the supernatural" 
[adj] having an import not apparent to the senses nor obvious to the intelligence; beyond ordinary understanding; "mysterious symbols"; "the mystical style of Blake"; "occult lore"; "the secret learning of the ancients" 
[adj] hidden and difficult to see; "an occult fracture"; "occult blood in the stool" 
[v] hide from view; "The lids were occulting her eyes" 
[v] become concealed or hidden from view or have its light extinguished; "The beam of light occults every so often" 
[v] cause an eclipse of (a celestial body) by intervention; "The Sun eclipses the moon today"; "Planets and stars often are occulted by other celestial bodies" 
http://www.gnosis.org/overview.html
Gnosis comes from a Greek word meaning 'to know' in the sense of 'to be acquainted'. Gnosis in a more specific religious sense refers to the knowledge of God and the fullness of the true spiritual realms through direct personal experience. Similar terms are jnana (Sanskrit) and ma'rifat (Arabic). A gnostic is someone who has had such an experience or who has been initiated into a tradition which provides access to such personal revelations. (Please note that as a term 'jnana' should not be confused with jnana yoga, which as a system of yoga is also concerned with the study of knowledge rather than the topic of gnosis as in 'direct acquaintance or experience. The true or 'sat' jnana, while it can be discussed or written about, has its real value in direct experience.)

So by these definitions, our LDS Friends are Gnostics  Occultists
Gnosis is not simply a synonym for mysticism, paranormal, occult, metaphysics, esoteric or knowledge. It is a distinct category of mystical experience.beyond the physical or psychic levels of being. 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


From: "Terry Clifton" [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Went to the movies today for the first time   in about twenty-five years.   making me wonder how the full moon figured in the story.  It is historically accurate that there was a full moon on that night.

Judy:
It has nothing to dowith history; this comes fromastronomy and RC 
Liturgy. There are two different calendersand some disagreement so 
apparently they use astronomy/astrology to determine what day to 
celebrate Pascha (see below quotefrom a French RC theologian)
quote: 

"The Christian Church, apparently from Apostolic times, began to fix the 
date of Pascha (Sunday) precisely in relation to light. For example, the 
feast of the Nativity of Christ (IV c.) was fixed as December 25, the day 
of the Winter solstice when sunlight begins to increase. (It was also a 
pagan feast for the same reason.) As for the sacred day of Pascha, here 
the moon also plays a part. The Sunday of the year that falls immediately 
after a full moon when it occurs not earlier than the vernal equinox is set 
aside as the feast of Pascha. 
  Terry wrote:   As He finishes praying, a large snake crawls up   to him and He stomps on it's head. At that point,   I was ready to walk out, but I am glad I stayed.

Judy:
The more I research the less I see a connection between this film and
reality no matter what the masses say.

Yesterday I thumbed througha photo/book of the film at Walmart;
At Gethsemanescripture says "he fell on his face" so I would never 
picture him looking as though he were baying at a full moon. Also his
stepping on a snake sounds 'hokey' to me. The concept is a spiritual
one that this is inadequate to communicate.

I was alsosurprised to seeJesus and his apostlessitting on chairs 
around a table like we use at what is supposed to be the Last Supper -
even I know (without research) that they used to eat in a reclining 
position on pillows. 

The clothing isalso disturbingbecausewomen back then used to
adorn themselves by wearingornaments on their clothing and their 
garments werevaried in color (remember Lydia in the book of Acts?).
In the Gibsonmovie the women areall in black chador like robes
looking like a bunch of nuns andthey have Jesuswearing this brown 
raggedy thing on his way to Golgotha. Where is the one piece tunic 
under the outer garment that he wore or even the purple robe they 
put on him with the crown of thorns at the Courthouse? 

Kevin thank you for your input - IMO there is a whole lot going on here
that we areignorant ofbecause we have no frame of reference and we 
need to be

Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

I stay clear of those Southern Baptists, thay are a bunch of heathen Rascals!
I even preach against them at their assemblies, for the reasons you list.
I am a bible believer,I trust in god's word.

So the S B are full of leaven, lets avoid them!
Still does not make it OK to hang with the heathen.
Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I also believe in thedoctrine of separation.
Ez 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

God is HOLY HOLY HOLY. God doesnot eat the meat spit out the bones.
What scripture teaches that?A Little leaven leavens the whole lump!
==
Sounds impressive Kevin. Never associate with sinners. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. That is how I thought when I left the Baptist church. Aren't you a Baptist,Kevin? Don't you go to a church where people have divorced and remarried for unbiblical reasons, and are now living in adultery? Aren't some of those same people singing in the choir and teaching Sunday school? Don't most Baptist churches have divorced deacons as well as deacons who are freemasons? Did I not read that almost twenty percent of Southern Baptist preachers are members of the Masonic lodge? A LITTLE leaven? Isn't the pot calling the kettle black? ;.)
Terry

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Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

Oh yeah, the scripture?
What verse teaches, Eat the meat spit out the bones?

Am I too narrow minded?
MT 7 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I stay clear of those Southern Baptists, thay are a bunch of heathen Rascals!
I even preach against them at their assemblies, for the reasons you list.
I am a bible believer,I trust in god's word.

So the S B are full of leaven, lets avoid them!
Still does not make it OK to hang with the heathen.
Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

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Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


So true,
A believing friend I met yesterday was remarking how Christians are so "faddish" First it was the Prayer of Jabez, then the Purpose Driven thing, and now this Passion movie. Over the weekend I visited a website that has the goods on C.S.Lewis; apparently he did the same in all of his books. He was into medieval history and paganism and there is occult symbolism in everything he wrote. As a young Christian I fell for it and brought his books into my home. Our son was very quickly drawn to the "so called" Christian mythology; he began with that and ended up heavily into DD. I now see it is all one and the same. Lewis and his friends Tolkien and Williams are definitely not good news and their gospel is not the one "once delivered to the saints".

It's funny but our LDS friends are BIG fans of Lewis!

I wonder why so many run after the next BIG thing?

HOLY BIBLE: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


So true,
A believing friend I met yesterday was remarking how Christians are so "faddish" First it was the Prayer of Jabez, then the Purpose Driven thing, and now this Passion movie. Over the weekend I visited a website that has the goods on C.S.Lewis; apparently he did the same in all of his books. He was into medieval history and paganism and there is occult symbolism in everything he wrote. As a young Christian I fell for it and brought his books into my home. Our son was very quickly drawn to the "so called" Christian mythology; he began with that and ended up heavily into DD. I now see it is all one and the same. Lewis and his friends Tolkien and Williams are definitely not good news and their gospel is not the one "once delivered to the saints".

I hear you Kevin.


This movie is LOADED with "HIDDEN" meaning!
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/2002/carl-teichrib/5isis.htm
"Symbols are oracular formsmysterious patterns creating vortices in the substances of the invisible world. They are centers of a mighty force, figures pregnant with an awful power, which, when properly fashioned, loose fiery whirlwinds upon the earth. Manly P. Hall, Lectures on Ancient Philosophy, p.356. (A Freemason and influential occultist, Manly P. Hall was a leading figure in the quest for mystical knowledge.)







Occult Definition:



[n] supernatural forces and events and beings collectively; "She doesn't
 believe in the supernatural" 
[adj] having an import not apparent to the senses nor obvious to the intelligence; beyond ordinary understanding; "mysterious symbols"; "the mystical style of Blake"; "occult lore"; "the secret learning of the ancients" 
[adj] hidden and difficult to see; "an occult fracture"; "occult blood in the stool" 
[v] hide from view; "The lids were occulting her eyes" 
[v] become concealed or hidden from view or have its light extinguished; "The beam of light occults every so often" 
[v] cause an eclipse of (a celestial body) by intervention; "The Sun eclipses the moon today"; "Planets and stars often are occulted by other celestial bodies" 
http://www.gnosis.org/overview.html
Gnosis comes from a Greek word meaning 'to know' in the sense of 'to be acquainted'. Gnosis in a more specific religious sense refers to the knowledge of God and the fullness of the true spiritual realms through direct personal experience. Similar terms are jnana (Sanskrit) and ma'rifat (Arabic). A gnostic is someone who has had such an experience or who has been initiated into a tradition which provides access to such personal revelations. (Please note that as a term 'jnana' should not be confused with jnana yoga, which as a system of yoga is also concerned with the study of knowledge rather than the topic of gnosis as in 'direct acquaintance or experience. The true or 'sat' jnana, while it can be discussed or written about, has its real value in direct experience.)

So by these definitions, our LDS Friends are Gnostics  Occultists
Gnosis is not simply a synonym for mysticism, paranormal, occult, metaphysics, esoteric or knowledge. It is a distinct category of mystical experience.beyond the physical or psychic levels of being. 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


From: "Terry Clifton" [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Went to the movies today for the first time   in about twenty-five years.   making me wonder how the full moon figured in the story.  It is historically accurate that there was a full moon on that night.

Judy:
It has nothing to dowith history; this comes fromastronomy and RC 
Liturgy. There are two different calendersand some disagreement so 
apparently they use astronomy/astrology to determine what day to

Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ





  
  
So the S B are full of leaven, lets avoid them!
Still does not make it OK to hang with the heathen.
===Jesus did. 
Terry

Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ





  Looks to me like the answer you get depends on 
  who you ask. I knew the last supper was connected to the passover 
  celebration, as well as the sacrifice of the Lamb. Just did not know 
  about the full moon, and never before knew that mary was much more than an 
  obedient Jewish girl whom God used to deliver His sacrifice to the 
  world.
  Some days you learn more than you care to 
  know,
  Terry
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 7:42 
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of 
Christ

Terry wrote: making me wonder how the full moon figured in the 
story.
How could you miss the significance of the SIGNS in the heavens?

VIRGIN On the crescent moonhttp://www.sas.ac.uk/warburg/photos/index/virgin.htm
And as the moon at its full she shines. The blessed Mary is said to be 
the full moon, because in every way perfect. The moon is imperfect when a 
half-moon, because it is stained or horned. But the glorious Virgin neither 
in Her birth had any stain, because sanctified in Her mother's womb, guarded 
by angels, nor in Her days had She the horns of pride. Hence, She shone 
fully and perfectly. She is said to be light because She dispels the 
darkness.

http://www.catholicqanda.com/Mary.html
And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with sun, 
and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of 
twelve stars. And being with child . . . she brought forth a male 
child, who is to rule all nations with a rod of iron; and her child was 
caught up to God and to his throne. . . . And the dragon was angered at the 
woman, and went away to wage war with the rest of her offspring, who keep 
the commandments of God, and hold fast the testimony of Jesus.--Revelations 
12:1-2,5,17. 
I [the Lord] will put enmity between you [the serpent] and the woman, and 
between your offspring and hers; He [and/or She in Hebrew] will strike at 
your head, while you strike at his [and/or her in Hebrew] heal.--Genesis 
3:15. 
Perhaps it has to do with the purification of our lady?
http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/IC-PADUA.HTM

http://torch.op.org/preaching/sermon/797"When the moon is full"
fr. Neil Ferguson O.P. teaches church history at Blackfriars, Oxford 
and at Allen Hall, the seminary of the Archdiocese of Westminster. He is 
also assistant chaplain to the University of Oxford.

Accordingly, in this month, about the fourteenth day of the 
month, when the orb of the moon is usually about to become 
full, the public universal feast of the Passover is celebrated, 
which in the Chaldaic language is called pascha; at 
which festival not only do private individuals bring victims to the altar 
and the priests sacrifice them, but also, by particular ordinances of this 
law, the whole nation is consecrated and officiates in offering sacrifice; 
every separate individual on this occasion bringing forward and offering up 
with his own hands the sacrifice due on his own behalf. Therefore all the 
rest of the people rejoiced and was of joyful countenance, every one 
thinking that he himself was honoured by this participation in the 
priesthood. On the Life of Moses II:224-225. 
This served as a model for what Jesus did on the night of 
the Last Supper. While, as St Peter reminds us in his first letter, we are 
all part of a consecrated nation, a royal priesthood, a people set apart (1 
Pet 2:9; Ex 19:6), on Holy Thursday night Jesus instituted not only the 
sublime sacrament of the Eucharist but also the sacrament 
of Order. 
The Gospel 
accounts of Christ's passion link His death and resurrection to the Jewish 
Passover, a commemoration of the Mosaic covenant. The early church fixed the date to 
coincide with Passover annually, but not to celebrate the old covenant holy 
days of Passover. A restriction was laid in the canons for the 
universal celebration of Easter. Easter, it was decided, cannot be 
the same day as Passover. 
To ensure compliance, the Sunday following the High 
Holy days of Passover - which is always the first Sabbath, Friday 
night/Saturday, after the full moon of the Jewish month of Nissan, which is 
the month of spring - would be closest Easter could ever be to 
Passover.
To separate Easter from Passover further, 
the canon of date determination specifies astronomical events rather than 
Jewish calendar dates: the Sunday following the first full moon that 
following the vernal equinox. March 20/21 is that date in both western 
calendars (Gregorian - new - and Julian - old -). The Julian calendar (or Old 
Calendar) resistance to restoring March 21st (after drifting later and 
later) to the act

Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

2004-03-01 Thread elextech






On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:53:48 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: Oh yeah, the scripture? What verse teaches, Eat 
the
meat  spit out the bones?

 I think maybe that idea is kinda sorta implied by: 
1Th 5:21 (RSV)"but test everything; hold fast 
what is good,"

vincent j. fulton

RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ









Kevin?

What I was trying to say was that God DOES
sometimes use heathens. He called Cyrus his ANOINTED and
SHEPHERD. That does not seem to fit into your separatist
theology.





Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.







-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:44
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The
passion of Christ





OK excuse me God would not use a heathen to bring men His truth.





Sorry I was not explicit enough in my expalnation. Words are so tricky.

David Miller
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Kevin wrote:
 God would not use a profane person like Joe Smith 
 nor Mel. Nor would he use anything tainted with a 
 little bit of falsehood.

Then how do you explain Judas? Was he not a successful preacher with
miracles of healing following his preaching? Was he not truly chosen as
an apostle of Christ?

How do you explain heathen Cyrus?

Thus saith the LORD TO HIS ANOINTED, TO CYRUS, WHOSE RIGHT HAND I HAVE
HOLDEN, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of
kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not
be shut. (Isaiah 45:1 KJV)

That saith of Cyrus, HE IS MY SHEPHERD, AND SHALL PERFORM ALL MY
PLEASURE: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the
temple, Thy foundation shall be laid. (Isaiah 44:28 KJV)

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

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he will be subscribed.









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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

Kevin wrote:
 Oh yeah, the scripture?
 What verse teaches, 
 Eat the meat  spit out the bones?

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The
scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever
they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their
works: for they say, and do not. (Matthew 23:1-3 KJV)

And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the
Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. (Mark 8:15 KJV)

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent
that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And
account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our
beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath
written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these
things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that
are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures,
unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these
things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the
wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the
knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now
and for ever. Amen. (2 Peter 3:14-18 KJV)

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

Judy wrote:
 He used Cyrus to get them out of Babylonian 
 captivity, not to teach doctrine.  That didn't 
 come until they found a copy of the scriptures 
 in what was left of the old temple and it was
 read to the people by Ezra the scribe.

Which is why I also brought up Judas Iscariot.  God used Judas to teach
doctrine.  Comments?

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

Judy wrote:
 It has nothing to do with history; this comes from 
 astronomy and RC Liturgy. There are two different 
 calenders and some disagreement so apparently they 
 use astronomy/astrology to determine what day to 
 celebrate Pascha

I'm starting to think that some have completely lost it in their Roman
Catholic witch hunt.  LOL.  

After this event, some Christians worked to separate Easter from
Passover, so they do some calendar manipulation, but at the time Christ
died, none of this was going on.  The Jews used a lunar calendar and
they used visual observation of the new moon to mark the beginning of
each month.  We know for a fact that the moon was just about full when
Jesus was in the garden praying to his Father.

Terry wrote:
 As He finishes praying, a large snake crawls up
 to him and He stomps on it's head.  At that point,
 I was ready to walk out, but I am glad I stayed.
 
Judy wrote:
 The more I research the less I see a connection 
 between this film and reality no matter what the 
 masses say.

Are you against artistic expression?

Judy wrote:
 Yesterday I thumbed through a photo/book of the 
 film at Walmart; At Gethsemane scripture says 
 he fell on his face so I would never picture 
 him looking as though he were baying at a full 
 moon. 

But the Scriptures also speak of him sweating as it were drops of blood,
so falling on his face does not mean that he was always on his face.
The film does show Jesus falling on his face, and this was when the
snake crawled on him.  You are reaching at everything you can to
discredit and malign someone's sermon.  None of us preach and teach
completely and perfectly.  How about some latitude?

Judy wrote:
 Also his stepping on a snake sounds 'hokey' 
 to me. The concept is a spiritual one that 
 this is inadequate to communicate.

But wasn't it wonderful that he tried to communicate it through
symbolism with an actual snake?  Did you see the movie?  I readily
acknowledge that it SOUNDS hokey, which is why I was surprised at how
well he actually did it.  I found it rather effective.  Having produced
some films myself, I was rather impressed at how successfully he did
this.  Obviously it doesn't work for everyone, but it did for me.

Judy wrote:
 I was also surprised to see Jesus and his apostles 
 sitting on chairs around a table like we use at what 
 is supposed to be the Last Supper - even I know 
 (without research) that they used to eat in a reclining 
 position on pillows.  

Gibson has quite a sense of humor.  In the film, he flashbacks to an
early day with Jesus building a table.  Mary laughs at how TALL the
table is.  How can anyone possibly sit at this, she says.  Jesus
demonstrates how, saying he will make chairs.  She can hardly understand
and says, Oh, it will never catch on.  I think it was the only time I
laughed out loud in the whole movie.  I think some of the other people
in the theater did not understand her perplexity about the table and its
height because to us it looks like a normal table, but seeing that you
have this knowledge of history and culture, I think you would have
actually liked this non-historical side note that Gibson threw into the
movie.  

Judy wrote:
 The clothing is also disturbing because women back 
 then used to adorn themselves by wearing ornaments 
 on their clothing and their garments were varied in 
 color (remember Lydia in the book of Acts?). In the 
 Gibson movie the women are all in black chador like 
 robes looking like a bunch of nuns and they have Jesus 
 wearing this brown raggedy thing on his way to Golgotha. 
 Where is the one piece tunic under the outer garment 
 that he wore or even the purple robe they put on him 
 with the crown of thorns at the Courthouse?  

Yes, he seemed to be weak in the clothing department.  I could not
discern the ribbon of blue at the bottom of the clothing that Jesus
wore.  Gibson did not make Jesus look like a Jewish Rabbi, but kind of
like a homeless dude.  :-)

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.  

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ



   Kevin wrote:
Oh yeah, the scripture?
What verse teaches,
Eat the meat  spit out the bones?
  =
  I would think if you start at first Peter, 3:15 and read from there you
will get the idea.  A large part of winning people to Christ is discussion.
If you are going to hide in a monastery you will stay away from SOME
sinners, but you will be useless to Christ.  He might as well take you home
the moment you are saved and make room for someone with a heart for the
lost.  If you are filled with the Spirit, and in Christ, you cannot separate
yourself from the lost.  You need to know how they think.  They need to know
how you think.  They need to see Jesus in you.  Evidently that was not
expected of the average believer in the old testament verses you quoted.
They had priests to tell the lost that they were lost, but those days are
over; we are the priests.  Our job is to go into all the world, to associate
with sinners.
  If you are going in order to be one of them, looking for approval from
them, that would be very wrong, but going to learn what they believe, and
lead them to the truth is commanded.  In the process, eat the meat and spit
out the bones brother.
  Terry


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

It says test, not indulge  then spit out the bones!

If it fails the test, reject it andhold to the good[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:53:48 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh yeah, the scripture? What verse teaches, Eat the
meat  spit out the bones?

 I think maybe that idea is kinda sorta implied by: 1Th 5:21 (RSV)"but test everything; hold fast what is good,"

vincent j. fulton

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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

Iwas trying to say is he does not use heathen to reaveal His Truth
He used a donkey once that does not mean I should have a donkey for a pastor.David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Kevin?
What I was trying to say was that God DOES sometimes use heathens. He called Cyrus his ANOINTED and SHEPHERD. That does not seem to fit into your separatist theology.

Peace be with you.David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:44 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

OK excuse me God would not use a heathen to bring men His truth.

Sorry I was not explicit enough in my expalnation. Words are so tricky.David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Kevin wrote: God would not use a profane person like Joe Smith nor Mel. Nor would he use anything tainted with a little bit of falsehood.Then how do you explain Judas? Was he not a successful preacher withmiracles of healing following his preaching? Was he not truly chosen asan apostle of Christ?How do you explain heathen Cyrus?Thus saith the LORD TO HIS ANOINTED, TO CYRUS, WHOSE RIGHT HAND I HAVEHOLDEN, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins ofkings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall notbe shut. (Isaiah 45:1 KJV)That saith of Cyrus, HE IS MY SHEPHERD, AND SHALL PERFORM ALL MYPLEASURE: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to thetemple, Thy foundation shall be laid. (Isaiah 44:28 KJV)Peace be with you.David Miller, Beverly Hills,
Florida.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

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RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

DAVIDM Which is why I also brought up Judas Iscariot. God used Judas to teachdoctrine. Comments?
So why don't you get yourself a modern day Judas for a pastor?
God can even use a Judas Pastor.
EZ 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Judy wrote: He used Cyrus to get them out of Babylonian  captivity, not to teach doctrine. That didn't  come until they found a copy of the scriptures  in what was left of the old temple and it was read to the people by Ezra the scribe.Which is why I also brought up Judas Iscariot. God used Judas to teachdoctrine. Comments?Peace be with you.David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be
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Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

I don't think you understand.

How many have you witnessed to last week?
Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin wrote: Oh yeah, the scripture? What verse teaches, Eat the meat spit out the bones?=I would think if you start at first Peter, 3:15 and read from there youwill get the idea. A large part of winning people to Christ is discussion.If you are going to hide in a monastery you will stay away from SOMEsinners, but you will be useless to Christ. He might as well take you homethe moment you are saved and make room for someone with a heart for thelost. If you are filled with the Spirit, and in Christ, you cannot separateyourself from the lost. You need to know how they think. They need to knowhow you think. They need to see Jesus in you. Evidently that was notexpected of the average believer in the old testament verses you quoted.They had priests to tell the
lost that they were lost, but those days areover; we are the priests. Our job is to go into all the world, to associatewith sinners.If you are going in order to be one of them, looking for approval fromthem, that would be very wrong, but going to learn what they believe, andlead them to the truth is commanded. In the process, eat the meat and spitout the bones brother.Terry--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ





  I don't keep count, but as nearly as I can 
  remember, it was about eight.
  You have concluded that possibly I do not 
  understand. That means that you are sorting through what I gave you to 
  feed on. You are seeing if it is all bones, or if there is any meat 
  there. Very good!
  Terry
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:34 
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of 
Christ

I don't think you understand.

How many have you witnessed to last week?
Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Kevin wrote:  Oh yeah, the scripture?  What verse 
  teaches,  Eat the meat  spit out the 
  bones?=I would think if you start at 
  first Peter, 3:15 and read from there youwill get the idea. A large 
  part of winning people to Christ is discussion.If you are going to 
  hide in a monastery you will stay away from SOMEsinners, but you will 
  be useless to Christ. He might as well take you homethe moment you are 
  saved and make room for someone with a heart for thelost. If you are 
  filled with the Spirit, and in Christ, you cannot separateyourself 
  from the lost. You need to know how they think. They need to knowhow 
  you think. They need to see Jesus in you. Evidently that was 
  notexpected of the average believer in the old testament verses you 
  quoted.They had priests to tell the lost that they were lost, but 
  those days areover; we are the priests. Our job is to go into all the 
  world, to associatewith sinners.If you are going in order to be 
  one of them, looking for approval fromthem, that would be very wrong, 
  but going to learn what they believe, andlead them to the truth is 
  commanded. In the process, eat the meat and spitout the bones 
  brother.Terry--"Let your speech be always with 
  grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every 
  man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want 
  to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a 
  friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


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Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

2004-03-01 Thread Blaine Borrowman




Blaine: You mentioned the face on the 
cloth--there is a more credible story that goes with that--the face on the cloth 
was the facial part of the shroud of Turin, shownbecause the shroud was 
folded in such a way as to leave the face only visible. The shroud is 
still unergoing investigation, and even though initial carbon testing does not 
place it at the time of Christ, several theories have been developed to explain 
that. The coins on the eyes, when examined closely, show up the name of 
Pontius Pilate on them, and the many imprints of the flowers on the shroud have 
all been traced to the area around Jerusalem. The negative image on the 
shroud has never been explained away satisfactorily. They have verified it 
was not done with any known paint or like substance. The blood on the 
shroud has been typed and is type AB, a common bloodtype among Semitic peoples, 
yet rather uncommon in other parts of the world. An authoritative book on 
this subject is The Turin 
Shroud byBarrie Schwarz and Ian Wilson.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 9:40 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of 
  Christ
  
  The catholics are saying it is a "wonderful depiction of the Blessed 
  Mothers ROLE in our Redemption"
  
  The saint (I forget her name right now ) that comes out to wipe 
  Jesus face is a story from the Apocrypha miraculously (in this well known 
  story to the RC faithful) the face of Jesus ends up impressed on this 
  shroud.
  
  I read some catholic posts about how it was faithful to the stations of 
  the cross. If all this is going on at a sub level does that mean the viewers 
  are participating in the 14 stations?
  The story movie draws from the mystic visionary German Nun Emmerich. The 
  script was developed by a Roman catholic priest. Sounds too religious for 
  me.Why do I need celluloid when I have the Holy Scriptures that 
  will never lead me astray?
  
  Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  




  You cannot miss the catholic slant to this 
  movie. Way too much Mary; no Joseph of Aramethea or Nicodemas. 
  Ne veil in the temple being torn, or a few other things I would have 
  shown, but still the best movie in town. I'm glad I went. You 
  will be too.
  Terry
  
rom: Judy Taylor 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 
8:52 PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] The passion of 
Christ

Thanks for sharing your perspective Terry,
I've been hearing so much about this movie and presently have mixed 
feelings about it. Our daughter got tickets for our whole 
familyso I will be going next Saturday; I've readabout the 
making of the movie. Apparently Mel Gibson is a devout RC and he was 
influenced by a mystic nun in writing the script. They had latin mass on 
the set every day and claim that miraculous things took place while they 
were making the movie. The man who plays Jesus is also a devout RC who 
prays to Mary - he and his wife are involved with the Metagorje 
apparitions. 

  
  
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Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

2004-03-01 Thread Blaine Borrowman




Blaine: 
Full Moon? Hey you guys, there is ALWAYS a full moon on the night of the 
Passover!!! LOL You guys need to bone up on your calendar lore--the 
Jewish calendar is what is known as a solar-lunar calendar--Lunar, because each 
Jewish month begins with anew moon. Solar, because it is kept in 
sync with the Vernal (Spring) Equinox by adding a lunar month every six 
years. The first month of the calendar, called Nisan, begins with the new 
moon closest to the Vernal Equinox, and then the Passover is always held on 15 
Nisan. Since a lunar month averages 30 days, this places the Passover 
smack dab in the middle of the month--when the moon is at full 
phase!! Always. Take my word for it, as an old 
Mormon boy who holds a temple recommend! 
LOL
- Original Message - 
From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 5:55 
PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The passion of 
Christ
 Terry wrote:  Went to the movies today for the first 
time   in about twenty-five years.   
Wow! I bet you never expected to break your long movie fast with an 
"R" rated film. :-)  Terry wrote:  
making me wonder how the full moon figured in the story.   
It is historically accurate that there was a full moon on that night. 
  Terry wrote:  As He finishes praying, a large 
snake crawls up   to him and He stomps on it's head. At that 
point,   I was ready to walk out, but I am glad I stayed. 
  Interesting. It was at this point that I was satisfied 
that the movie I was now seeing would be a very good and Biblical 
movie. I was greatly moved and blessed by Gibson putting such a 
thing into the movie because prophetically, this is exactly what Jesus 
did. For a man to portray the prophetic along with the historical 
like this was a very good indicator to me. Besides, the way he 
made Christ first simply without any fear as the snake crawled upon him, 
then after resisting temptation and reaching some resolve, he quickly 
stomped the snake with little hesitation or carefulness, all this struck 
a chord with me. I guess I simply related to it and how temptation 
and the victorious outcome comes about.   Terry 
wrote:  My next thought was that "This goes far beyond   
my definition of love" Only God could love that   much and 
only God could make such a sacrifice."  I came out of that movie 
with a new view. I now   see sin more clearly than ever 
before, and the   things that were once fun and exciting are now 
  so ugly. The price He paid for the fun I had  
 was way too high. The suffering was too much.   
None of us are worth it. See the movie.   You will understand 
better than you have ever   understood before.  Very 
thought provoking comments, Terry. One day I would enjoy meeting 
you and spending an evening talking about the things of the Lord. 
I think I would learn a lot.  Peace be with you. 
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.  -- "Let 
your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org 
 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
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will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
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and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ

2004-03-01 Thread Blaine Borrowman




Good guess, Judy, but as I have shown in a recent 
post, the moon is always full on Passover. 
Blaine

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 7:57 
AM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] The passion of 
  Christ
  
  From: "Terry Clifton" [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
  Went to the movies today for the first time   in about 
  twenty-five years.   making me wonder how the full 
  moon figured in the story.  It is historically accurate 
  that there was a full moon on that night.
  
  Judy:
  It has nothing to dowith history; this comes fromastronomy 
  and RC 
  Liturgy. There are two different calendersand some disagreement so 
  
  apparently they use astronomy/astrology to determine what day to 
  celebrate Pascha (see below quotefrom a French RC theologian)
  quote: 
  
  "The Christian Church, apparently from Apostolic times, began to fix the 
  
  date of Pascha (Sunday) precisely in relation to light. For example, the 
  
  feast of the Nativity of Christ (IV c.) was fixed as December 25, the day 
  
  of the Winter solstice when sunlight begins to increase. (It was also a 
  pagan feast for the same reason.) As for the 
  sacred day of Pascha, here 
  the moon also plays a part. The Sunday of the 
  year that falls immediately 
  after a full moon when it occurs not earlier than the 
  vernal equinox is set 
  aside as the feast of Pascha. 
Terry wrote:   As He finishes praying, 
  a large snake crawls up   to him and He stomps on it's 
  head. At that point,   I was ready to walk out, but I 
  am glad I stayed.
  
  Judy:
  The more I research the less I see a connection between this film 
  and
  reality no matter what the masses say.
  
  Yesterday I thumbed througha photo/book of the film at 
  Walmart;
  At Gethsemanescripture says "he fell on his face" so I would never 
  
  picture him looking as though he were baying at a full moon. Also 
  his
  stepping on a snake sounds 'hokey' to me. The concept is a 
spiritual
  one that this is inadequate to communicate.
  
  I was alsosurprised to seeJesus and his apostlessitting 
  on chairs 
  around a table like we use at what is supposed to be the Last Supper 
  -
  even I know (without research) that they used to eat in a reclining 

  position on pillows. 
  
  The clothing isalso disturbingbecausewomen back then 
  used to
  adorn themselves by wearingornaments on their clothing and their 
  
  garments werevaried in color (remember Lydia in the book of 
  Acts?).
  In the Gibsonmovie the women areall in black chador like 
  robes
  looking like a bunch of nuns andthey have Jesuswearing this 
  brown 
  raggedy thing on his way to Golgotha. Where is the one piece tunic 
  under the outer garment that he wore or even the purple robe they 
  put on him with the crown of thorns at the Courthouse? 
  
  Kevin thank you for your input - IMO there is a whole lot going on 
  here
  that we areignorant ofbecause we have no frame of reference 
  and we 
  need to be Berean or we will wind up like Israel not knowing our right 
  
  hand from the left and perishing for lack of knowledge. It's our 
God
  given responsiblity to check these things by the Word of God.
  
  Grace and Peace,
  Judy

Re: [TruthTalk] The passion of Christ