[U2] NJ UV opportunity

[MAJ Programming]

Could Dave Rosen or anyone give me back the particulars on this opportunity in
NJ.

I deleted the emails and then I found someone who's interested.

Thanks
Mark Johnson
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Re: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?

[Susan Lynch]

Will,
Having spent a lot of my career consulting, I have seen a system where the 
history was archived in files named with the year eg INVOICES was the 
current fiscal year, INVOICES2006 was last year's orders, INVOICES2005 were 
2 fiscal years back, etc.  The same held true for the sales history files. 
There were programs which were passed the file names, which were opened to 
INV.FILE, SALES.HIST, etc and the same logic ran on the history files as on 
the current fiscal year's files.  This was many years back, when disk space 
was more expensive, and history files were archived to removeable media 
(bulky tapes, usually) and brought back when needed for history reports. 
The proc for the current year would pass hard-coded file names, while the 
proc for prior years would prompt for the year and append it to the file 
names and pass those.  But it was not the entire system - probably the one 
you inherited was written by someone who learned on such a system and 
thought it was the only way to write code (or a cool way to write code) and 
who never gave a moment's thought to maintainability or documentation.


Susan Lynch
F. W. Davison & Company, Inc.
- Original Message - 
From: "MAJ Programming" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?



While your examples are not false, they're hardly true either. In my many
years of MV programming, I've never seen such alternate files or other
methods. The closest I've seen is code within the program to decide which
files to use.

I think you are implying contemporary intelligence against an old 
technique.


This entire application is written this way so the chances of having
EVERYTHING have alternate files is pretty slim.

Thanks
Mark Johnson
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: RE: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?



Just to play devil's advocate, there ARE good reasons for doing the code

that

way:

1.  The same program can be used for processing live and historical data

if

they're in different files.  Just create two procs and pass live files in

one

and historical files in the other.
2.  The same program can be used for other file sets - assuming it's a
generic routine.
3.  Filenames can be changed without having to recompile the program.
Although it's a little safer in U2, recompiling code out from under a 
user
isn't a good thing in most flavors of Pick - unless you enjoy sending 
them

to

a RIF error.

Again, I'm not saying there aren't better ways to do it, but there are

legit

reasons for this type of code - and who knows how long ago the code was
written too.

My 1.5"

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Norman Morgan
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 9:02 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?

Joking aside, that looks almost like something written by someone who
was accustomed to writing mainframe COBOL where actual file assignments
were made outside the program code in JCL.  That doesn't excuse the
internal naming style, but the technique harks back to my "misspent
youth" as a COBOL programmer.

> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy
> > Snyder
> > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:21 AM
> > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> > Subject: Re: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse
> engineering" tool ?
> >
> > > One of my clients has procs like this:
> > >
> > > HRUN BP SOP1500
> > > STON
> > > HORDER<
> > > HCUSTOMER<
> > > HPRODUCT<
> > > HVENDOR<
> > > P
> > >
> > > whereby the program (BP SOP1500) has the corresponding INPUT
> > > statements
> > for
> > > the file names and opens them as F1, F2, F3 which is a real
> > bear when
> > > reading the code.
> >
> > Wow - that's just plan mean!  There may have been a thought that it
> > was a way to avoid hard-coding file names in case they ever changed
> > (though that would be a weak argument), but then they're
> hard-coded in
> > the PROC, so I can't see any benefit at all, other than
> obfuscation.
> > The person that created it must have had a future grudge against
> > whoever came along to maintain the code.  "Take my job from me, did
> > you?
> > I'll teach you a lesson."  :-)
> >
> > Tim Snyder
> > Consulting I/T Specialist
> > U2 Lab Services
> > Information Management, IBM Software Group
> ---
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> To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
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Re: [U2] 1 - 4 Years

[MAJ Programming]

Aside from the historical rambling, your question on LOCATE can be easily
answered tenfold by the persons on this forum.

Mark Johnson
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 2:38 PM
Subject: RE: [U2] 1 - 4 Years


> I resemble that comment (Pick Aware 2003).
>
> As a side note:  Early in our test/evaluation, our software vendor
> salesperson had said that the database system used by the application was
> "Informix".
>
> "Oh Yeah, that sounds familiar. I took some sailing classes in the San
> Francisco Bay with a gal that worked at Informix."
>
> So needless to say that I spent about 3 months on the IIUG.org list-serv.
I
> even hired a "Informix" consultant to help get our Web application hooked
up
> to our new application software's database via ODBC.
>
> After about 3 hours of mucking about on our system, the consultant
reported
> back that:
> "In an attempt to assess the Informix installation I looked around
> on the machine for the location of the normal Informix tools and
> configurations.  I found none of them.  I called Mr. Smith and he ran me
> though some of his standard commands and locations that he uses with the
> application.  This was when I found a Universe system, which has an
Informix
> copyright but I was unfamiliar with the product.  I made several phone
calls
> and did some investigations and got understand the basis of the product.
>
> Universe is a tool acquired when Informix obtained (I believe)
> DataStage from a third party.  Universe is its own database system based
> upon the Pick Database system.  Universe is a flat file pseudo relational
> database system but allows multi-values within fields.  Universe does
allow
> ODBC and JDBC connections but certain field types require some translation
> to be correctly transferred.  Universe does not follow any of the standard
> Informix conventions and does not use the same configuration files and
> Charles McMurray should seek out a Universe Consultant to help with their
> ODBC problem.  IBM did acquire all the rights to Universe with the
purchase
> of Informix and does state that it supports Universe."
>
> So I say to myself what the heck is Universe? So what is a newbie to do?
> But, Google it - which leads to some guy Cliff Olivier and sites in
> Australia.
> I get in touch with Janet Oswald and some of her group. And finally I
found
> this fledging users group u2ug.org that was just getting going and the
rest
> is history. About one month later I got hooked up with a group out of Los
> Angeles [AdvancedWare] that saved the day, in getting us technical
> training(Unix, MV, Universe, DICT, I-desc, getting the ODBC hooked up,
> etc..).
>
> About a year later after numerous pleadings, demands, etc .., we got
> technical training on our Eclipse Enterpise Software application. Those
> Intuit-Eclipse software developers think they are guarding the Crown
Jewels
> (or are southern border patrol .. I got in anyway .. Amigos). They are
more
> of an impedment than help. It is a great system they wrote and works
really
> well. But, since it was originally written by some hackers in a garage, I
> guess they do not have any documentation on the system (dig.. Dig...
prove
> my wrong Denver Dudes).
>
> Ok so now I have about 4 years on U2 and still trying to get to know the
> difference in LOCATE x in MVvs   LOCATE x in MV<1,1> returns what?
> I think I have figured out how to read an product item that is on
backorder
> from the convoluted MV design on the order entry system.
>
>  Probably this is the same path followed by many U2  newbies.  --
I
> hope not 
>
> Garry L. Smith
> Dir Info Systems
> Charles McMurray Company
> V# 559-292-5782   F# 559-346-6169
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  ] On Behalf Of Charles Barouch
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:03 AM
> To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> Subject: Re: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey
>
> Ron,
>Actually, I train new programmers. The problem is that most new people
> don;t know there's a community, so we don't meet them. There's actually a
> lot of new blood. We just have to find them and invite them inside.
>
> - Chuck
>
> Ron Hutchings wrote:
> >Has anyone actually run across someone with only 1-5 years
experience?
> ---
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> u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
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Re: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?

[MAJ Programming]

While your examples are not false, they're hardly true either. In my many
years of MV programming, I've never seen such alternate files or other
methods. The closest I've seen is code within the program to decide which
files to use.

I think you are implying contemporary intelligence against an old technique.

This entire application is written this way so the chances of having
EVERYTHING have alternate files is pretty slim.

Thanks
Mark Johnson
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: RE: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?


> Just to play devil's advocate, there ARE good reasons for doing the code
that
> way:
>
> 1.  The same program can be used for processing live and historical data
if
> they're in different files.  Just create two procs and pass live files in
one
> and historical files in the other.
> 2.  The same program can be used for other file sets - assuming it's a
> generic routine.
> 3.  Filenames can be changed without having to recompile the program.
> Although it's a little safer in U2, recompiling code out from under a user
> isn't a good thing in most flavors of Pick - unless you enjoy sending them
to
> a RIF error.
>
> Again, I'm not saying there aren't better ways to do it, but there are
legit
> reasons for this type of code - and who knows how long ago the code was
> written too.
>
> My 1.5"
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Norman Morgan
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 9:02 AM
> To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> Subject: RE: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?
>
> Joking aside, that looks almost like something written by someone who
> was accustomed to writing mainframe COBOL where actual file assignments
> were made outside the program code in JCL.  That doesn't excuse the
> internal naming style, but the technique harks back to my "misspent
> youth" as a COBOL programmer.
>
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy
> > > Snyder
> > > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:21 AM
> > > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> > > Subject: Re: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse
> > engineering" tool ?
> > >
> > > > One of my clients has procs like this:
> > > >
> > > > HRUN BP SOP1500
> > > > STON
> > > > HORDER<
> > > > HCUSTOMER<
> > > > HPRODUCT<
> > > > HVENDOR<
> > > > P
> > > >
> > > > whereby the program (BP SOP1500) has the corresponding INPUT
> > > > statements
> > > for
> > > > the file names and opens them as F1, F2, F3 which is a real
> > > bear when
> > > > reading the code.
> > >
> > > Wow - that's just plan mean!  There may have been a thought that it
> > > was a way to avoid hard-coding file names in case they ever changed
> > > (though that would be a weak argument), but then they're
> > hard-coded in
> > > the PROC, so I can't see any benefit at all, other than
> > obfuscation.
> > > The person that created it must have had a future grudge against
> > > whoever came along to maintain the code.  "Take my job from me, did
> > > you?
> > > I'll teach you a lesson."  :-)
> > >
> > > Tim Snyder
> > > Consulting I/T Specialist
> > > U2 Lab Services
> > > Information Management, IBM Software Group
> > ---
> > u2-users mailing list
> > u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> > To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
> ---
> u2-users mailing list
> u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
>
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Re: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?

[MAJ Programming]

The designers of this mess were (are) called Gull from Long Island, NY. It
appears to be one of the many early attempts at a 4GL that are now Roadkill.

I have another client running similar code for a Credit & Collections
application called BestCollect.

I could write a book on the false starts of programming in MV.

My 1 cent
Mark Johnson

P.S. In response to the 'future grudges' that could occur, and the history
of MV programmers, VARs etc, I would definitely insist that If I were to
purchase an application from a VAR and the source code were not on my
system, that the source code be stored in escrow by a 3rd party. That way,
when the software VAR eventually goes out of business, at least the source
sode is available.

I don't mind following awkward source code. But I do have to have it.
- Original Message -
From: "Timothy Snyder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?


> > One of my clients has procs like this:
> >
> > HRUN BP SOP1500
> > STON
> > HORDER<
> > HCUSTOMER<
> > HPRODUCT<
> > HVENDOR<
> > P
> >
> > whereby the program (BP SOP1500) has the corresponding INPUT statements
> for
> > the file names and opens them as F1, F2, F3 which is a real bear when
> > reading the code.
>
> Wow - that's just plan mean!  There may have been a thought that it was a
> way to avoid hard-coding file names in case they ever changed (though that
> would be a weak argument), but then they're hard-coded in the PROC, so I
> can't see any benefit at all, other than obfuscation.  The person that
> created it must have had a future grudge against whoever came along to
> maintain the code.  "Take my job from me, did you?  I'll teach you a
> lesson."  :-)
>
> Tim Snyder
> Consulting I/T Specialist
> U2 Lab Services
> Information Management, IBM Software Group
> ---
> u2-users mailing list
> u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
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RE: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey

[Dan Fitzgerald]

Sheesh. Can't a guy just advertise for help around here?  ;)
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RE: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey

[Tony Gravagno]

Ron Hutchings wrote:
>Has anyone actually run across someone with only 1-5 years
>experience?

In the MV market someone with 2+ years of the right indepth experience
could be considered an expert, so they're not looking for a job, they're
now a Consultant.  This is another reason why it's tough to harness
full-time talent - employers rarely pay what MV people "think" they can get
in the open market.

My advice: Don't quit your day job.

Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ removethisNebula-RnD.com
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RE: [U2] 1 - 4 Years

[GarryS]

I resemble that comment (Pick Aware 2003).

As a side note:  Early in our test/evaluation, our software vendor
salesperson had said that the database system used by the application was
"Informix".  

"Oh Yeah, that sounds familiar. I took some sailing classes in the San
Francisco Bay with a gal that worked at Informix."

So needless to say that I spent about 3 months on the IIUG.org list-serv. I
even hired a "Informix" consultant to help get our Web application hooked up
to our new application software's database via ODBC.

After about 3 hours of mucking about on our system, the consultant reported
back that:
"In an attempt to assess the Informix installation I looked around
on the machine for the location of the normal Informix tools and
configurations.  I found none of them.  I called Mr. Smith and he ran me
though some of his standard commands and locations that he uses with the
application.  This was when I found a Universe system, which has an Informix
copyright but I was unfamiliar with the product.  I made several phone calls
and did some investigations and got understand the basis of the product.
 
Universe is a tool acquired when Informix obtained (I believe)
DataStage from a third party.  Universe is its own database system based
upon the Pick Database system.  Universe is a flat file pseudo relational
database system but allows multi-values within fields.  Universe does allow
ODBC and JDBC connections but certain field types require some translation
to be correctly transferred.  Universe does not follow any of the standard
Informix conventions and does not use the same configuration files and
Charles McMurray should seek out a Universe Consultant to help with their
ODBC problem.  IBM did acquire all the rights to Universe with the purchase
of Informix and does state that it supports Universe."

So I say to myself what the heck is Universe? So what is a newbie to do?
But, Google it - which leads to some guy Cliff Olivier and sites in
Australia.
I get in touch with Janet Oswald and some of her group. And finally I found
this fledging users group u2ug.org that was just getting going and the rest
is history. About one month later I got hooked up with a group out of Los
Angeles [AdvancedWare] that saved the day, in getting us technical
training(Unix, MV, Universe, DICT, I-desc, getting the ODBC hooked up,
etc..). 

About a year later after numerous pleadings, demands, etc .., we got
technical training on our Eclipse Enterpise Software application. Those
Intuit-Eclipse software developers think they are guarding the Crown Jewels
(or are southern border patrol .. I got in anyway .. Amigos). They are more
of an impedment than help. It is a great system they wrote and works really
well. But, since it was originally written by some hackers in a garage, I
guess they do not have any documentation on the system (dig.. Dig...  prove
my wrong Denver Dudes). 

Ok so now I have about 4 years on U2 and still trying to get to know the
difference in LOCATE x in MVvs   LOCATE x in MV<1,1> returns what?
I think I have figured out how to read an product item that is on backorder
from the convoluted MV design on the order entry system.

 Probably this is the same path followed by many U2  newbies.  -- I
hope not 

Garry L. Smith
Dir Info Systems
Charles McMurray Company
V# 559-292-5782   F# 559-346-6169

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ] On Behalf Of Charles Barouch
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:03 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey

Ron,
   Actually, I train new programmers. The problem is that most new people
don;t know there's a community, so we don't meet them. There's actually a
lot of new blood. We just have to find them and invite them inside.

- Chuck

Ron Hutchings wrote:
>Has anyone actually run across someone with only 1-5 years experience?
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RE: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey

[Jerry Banker]

1-5 years experience with UV, yes. We have trained a few here. But
usually they have experience with other languages. I have also worked in
colleges that have work study programs for students; they work with it,
and learn it, in most cases it's Unidata.

-Original Message-
From: Charles Barouch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 12:03 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey

Ron,
   Actually, I train new programmers. The problem is that most new 
people don;t know there's a community, so we don't meet them. There's 
actually a lot of new blood. We just have to find them and invite them 
inside.

- Chuck

Ron Hutchings wrote:
>Has anyone actually run across someone with only 1-5 years
experience?
>__
>
>  From:  "Jerry Banker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Reply-To:  u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>  To:  
>  Subject:  RE: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey
>  Date:  Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:28:22 -0500
>  No, they're looking for a woman :-)
>  -Original Message-
>  From: john reid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 7:52 AM
>  To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>  Subject: Re: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey
>  'Must be able to mutitask'
>  Is that like having the capability to alter the
biocharacteristics of
>  a task, sort've on the fly?'
>  Just kidding
>  john
>  On 6/28/07, Barry Rogen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  >  Position:   Full time, permanent  U2 programmer
>  >Environment:   UniVerse, residing on HP systems
>  >  Location:Northern New Jersey
>  >  Experience Level:   1 - 5 years
>  >  Type Business:   Manufacturing
>  >
>  >   Requirements/Expectations:  Must be able to mutitask and work
in a
>  > challenging, fast paced environment. EDI knowledge is
necessary.
>  > Terrific opportunities for technical growth and training. Solid
>  > programming skills expected.
>  >
>  > Barry  Rogen
>  > PNY Technologies, Inc.
>  > Senior  Programmer/Analyst
>  > (973)  515 - 9700  ext 5327
>  > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  >
>  > -
>  > Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win
>  > glorious triumphs even though checkered by
>  > failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who
>  > neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live
>  > in the gray twilight that knows neither victory
>  > nor defeat.t. roosevelt
>  >

>  > ---
>  > u2-users mailing list
>  > u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>  > To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
>  >
>  --
>  john
>  ---
>  u2-users mailing list
>  u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
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>  ---
>  u2-users mailing list
>  u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>  To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
>  _
>
>Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
> ---
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> To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
>
>
>   


-- 

Charles Barouch ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
www.KeyAlly.com (718) 762-3884 x 1
P. O. Box 540957, Queens, NY 11354
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RE: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?

[IT-Laure Hansen]

I have been trying to track Joe Toledo and/or someone at his company
Toledo Inc. (who used to distribute SoftWhere) but all e-mails have come
back undeliverable. The company's web site is also down.

That's just too bad.

Laure Hansen,
City of Redwood City
Information Technology
1017 Middlefield Road
Redwood City, CA 94063
Tel 650-780-7087
Fax 650-556-9204
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stevenson,
Charles
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 7:28 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?

If I recall correctly, SoftWhere handled that sort of thing.
I do remember seeing it pick up subroutine's uses of files where the
file variable was passed as an argument from the calling program.

-Original Message-
How does it work with parameter driven code.

One of my clients has procs like this:

HRUN BP SOP1500
STON
HORDER<
HCUSTOMER<
HPRODUCT<
HVENDOR<
P

whereby the program (BP SOP1500) has the corresponding INPUT statements
for the file names and opens them as F1, F2, F3
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Re: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey

[Charles Barouch]

Ron,
  Actually, I train new programmers. The problem is that most new 
people don;t know there's a community, so we don't meet them. There's 
actually a lot of new blood. We just have to find them and invite them 
inside.


   - Chuck

Ron Hutchings wrote:

   Has anyone actually run across someone with only 1-5 years experience?
   __

 From:  "Jerry Banker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Reply-To:  u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 To:  
 Subject:  RE: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey
 Date:  Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:28:22 -0500
 No, they're looking for a woman :-)
 -Original Message-
 From: john reid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 7:52 AM
 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 Subject: Re: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey
 'Must be able to mutitask'
 Is that like having the capability to alter the biocharacteristics of
 a task, sort've on the fly?'
 Just kidding
 john
 On 6/28/07, Barry Rogen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 >  Position:   Full time, permanent  U2 programmer
 >Environment:   UniVerse, residing on HP systems
 >  Location:Northern New Jersey
 >  Experience Level:   1 - 5 years
 >  Type Business:   Manufacturing
 >
 >   Requirements/Expectations:  Must be able to mutitask and work in a
 > challenging, fast paced environment. EDI knowledge is necessary.
 > Terrific opportunities for technical growth and training. Solid
 > programming skills expected.
 >
 > Barry  Rogen
 > PNY Technologies, Inc.
 > Senior  Programmer/Analyst
 > (973)  515 - 9700  ext 5327
 > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >
 > -
 > Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win
 > glorious triumphs even though checkered by
 > failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who
 > neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live
 > in the gray twilight that knows neither victory
 > nor defeat.t. roosevelt
 > 
 > ---
 > u2-users mailing list
 > u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 > To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
 >
 --
 john
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--

   Charles Barouch ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   www.KeyAlly.com (718) 762-3884 x 1
   P. O. Box 540957, Queens, NY 11354
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RE: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey

[Ron Hutchings]

   Has anyone actually run across someone with only 1-5 years experience?
   __

 From:  "Jerry Banker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Reply-To:  u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 To:  
 Subject:  RE: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey
 Date:  Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:28:22 -0500
 No, they're looking for a woman :-)
 -Original Message-
 From: john reid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 7:52 AM
 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 Subject: Re: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey
 'Must be able to mutitask'
 Is that like having the capability to alter the biocharacteristics of
 a task, sort've on the fly?'
 Just kidding
 john
 On 6/28/07, Barry Rogen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 >  Position:   Full time, permanent  U2 programmer
 >Environment:   UniVerse, residing on HP systems
 >  Location:Northern New Jersey
 >  Experience Level:   1 - 5 years
 >  Type Business:   Manufacturing
 >
 >   Requirements/Expectations:  Must be able to mutitask and work in a
 > challenging, fast paced environment. EDI knowledge is necessary.
 > Terrific opportunities for technical growth and training. Solid
 > programming skills expected.
 >
 > Barry  Rogen
 > PNY Technologies, Inc.
 > Senior  Programmer/Analyst
 > (973)  515 - 9700  ext 5327
 > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >
 > -
 > Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win
 > glorious triumphs even though checkered by
 > failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who
 > neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live
 > in the gray twilight that knows neither victory
 > nor defeat.t. roosevelt
 > 
 > ---
 > u2-users mailing list
 > u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 > To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
 >
 --
 john
 ---
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RE: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?

[bpaige]

Just to play devil's advocate, there ARE good reasons for doing the code that
way:

1.  The same program can be used for processing live and historical data if
they're in different files.  Just create two procs and pass live files in one
and historical files in the other.
2.  The same program can be used for other file sets - assuming it's a
generic routine.
3.  Filenames can be changed without having to recompile the program.
Although it's a little safer in U2, recompiling code out from under a user
isn't a good thing in most flavors of Pick - unless you enjoy sending them to
a RIF error.

Again, I'm not saying there aren't better ways to do it, but there are legit
reasons for this type of code - and who knows how long ago the code was
written too.

My 1.5"

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Norman Morgan
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 9:02 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?

Joking aside, that looks almost like something written by someone who
was accustomed to writing mainframe COBOL where actual file assignments
were made outside the program code in JCL.  That doesn't excuse the
internal naming style, but the technique harks back to my "misspent
youth" as a COBOL programmer.

> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy 
> > Snyder
> > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:21 AM
> > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> > Subject: Re: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse 
> engineering" tool ?
> > 
> > > One of my clients has procs like this:
> > > 
> > > HRUN BP SOP1500
> > > STON
> > > HORDER<
> > > HCUSTOMER<
> > > HPRODUCT<
> > > HVENDOR<
> > > P
> > > 
> > > whereby the program (BP SOP1500) has the corresponding INPUT 
> > > statements
> > for
> > > the file names and opens them as F1, F2, F3 which is a real
> > bear when
> > > reading the code.
> > 
> > Wow - that's just plan mean!  There may have been a thought that it 
> > was a way to avoid hard-coding file names in case they ever changed 
> > (though that would be a weak argument), but then they're 
> hard-coded in 
> > the PROC, so I can't see any benefit at all, other than 
> obfuscation.  
> > The person that created it must have had a future grudge against 
> > whoever came along to maintain the code.  "Take my job from me, did 
> > you?
> > I'll teach you a lesson."  :-)
> > 
> > Tim Snyder
> > Consulting I/T Specialist
> > U2 Lab Services
> > Information Management, IBM Software Group
> ---
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> To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
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RE: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?

[Stevenson, Charles]

If I recall correctly, SoftWhere handled that sort of thing.
I do remember seeing it pick up subroutine's uses of files where the
file variable was passed as an argument from the calling program.

-Original Message-
How does it work with parameter driven code.

One of my clients has procs like this:

HRUN BP SOP1500
STON
HORDER<
HCUSTOMER<
HPRODUCT<
HVENDOR<
P

whereby the program (BP SOP1500) has the corresponding INPUT statements
for the file names and opens them as F1, F2, F3
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[U2] RE: OT "Mutitask"

[Stevenson, Charles]

Mark, That's good.

I've cross-posted to u2-community, preempting the lifeguard kicking this
thread out of the u2-users pool.

cds
-Original Message-
From: Hennessey, Mark F.
Subject: RE: [U2] [AD] OT "Mutitask" [not-secure]

"Mutitask" (intransitive verb)- When an assignment's scope or definition
is radically altered before the task is complete.

Example: "We need the sorting on report X changed." Becomes: "Users must
be able to run reports at any time during the day or night and receive
the output via Navajo Code Talker. The system must support reporting on
future data. And no budget increase." 
--
'Must be able to mutitask'
Is that like having the capability to alter the biocharacteristics of a
task, sort've on the fly?'
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RE: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?

[Norman Morgan]

Joking aside, that looks almost like something written by someone who
was accustomed to writing mainframe COBOL where actual file assignments
were made outside the program code in JCL.  That doesn't excuse the
internal naming style, but the technique harks back to my "misspent
youth" as a COBOL programmer.

> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy 
> > Snyder
> > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:21 AM
> > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> > Subject: Re: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse 
> engineering" tool ?
> > 
> > > One of my clients has procs like this:
> > > 
> > > HRUN BP SOP1500
> > > STON
> > > HORDER<
> > > HCUSTOMER<
> > > HPRODUCT<
> > > HVENDOR<
> > > P
> > > 
> > > whereby the program (BP SOP1500) has the corresponding INPUT 
> > > statements
> > for
> > > the file names and opens them as F1, F2, F3 which is a real
> > bear when
> > > reading the code.
> > 
> > Wow - that's just plan mean!  There may have been a thought that it 
> > was a way to avoid hard-coding file names in case they ever changed 
> > (though that would be a weak argument), but then they're 
> hard-coded in 
> > the PROC, so I can't see any benefit at all, other than 
> obfuscation.  
> > The person that created it must have had a future grudge against 
> > whoever came along to maintain the code.  "Take my job from me, did 
> > you?
> > I'll teach you a lesson."  :-)
> > 
> > Tim Snyder
> > Consulting I/T Specialist
> > U2 Lab Services
> > Information Management, IBM Software Group
> ---
> u2-users mailing list
> u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
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RE: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?

[Norman Morgan]

When in doubt, obfuscate.

===
Norman Morgan <> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <> http://www.brake.com
===
Judge: An unemployed lawyer who wears a black dress.
===
 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Timothy Snyder
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:21 AM
> To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> Subject: Re: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?
> 
> > One of my clients has procs like this:
> > 
> > HRUN BP SOP1500
> > STON
> > HORDER<
> > HCUSTOMER<
> > HPRODUCT<
> > HVENDOR<
> > P
> > 
> > whereby the program (BP SOP1500) has the corresponding INPUT 
> > statements
> for
> > the file names and opens them as F1, F2, F3 which is a real 
> bear when 
> > reading the code.
> 
> Wow - that's just plan mean!  There may have been a thought 
> that it was a way to avoid hard-coding file names in case 
> they ever changed (though that would be a weak argument), but 
> then they're hard-coded in the PROC, so I can't see any 
> benefit at all, other than obfuscation.  The person that 
> created it must have had a future grudge against whoever came 
> along to maintain the code.  "Take my job from me, did you?  
> I'll teach you a lesson."  :-)
> 
> Tim Snyder
> Consulting I/T Specialist
> U2 Lab Services
> Information Management, IBM Software Group
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RE: [U2] [AD] OT "Mutitask" [not-secure]

[Hennessey, Mark F.]

"Mutitask" (intransitive verb)- When an assignment's scope or definition is 
radically altered before the task is complete.

Example: "We need the sorting on report X changed." Becomes: "Users must be 
able to run reports at any time during the day or night and receive the output 
via Navajo Code Talker. The system must support reporting on future data. And 
no budget increase." 


--

'Must be able to mutitask'
Is that like having the capability to alter the biocharacteristics of
a task, sort've on the fly?'
Just kidding
john
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RE: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey

[Jerry Banker]

No, they're looking for a woman :-)

-Original Message-
From: john reid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 7:52 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey

'Must be able to mutitask'
Is that like having the capability to alter the biocharacteristics of
a task, sort've on the fly?'
Just kidding
john

On 6/28/07, Barry Rogen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Position:   Full time, permanent  U2 programmer
>Environment:   UniVerse, residing on HP systems
>  Location:Northern New Jersey
>  Experience Level:   1 - 5 years
>  Type Business:   Manufacturing
>
>   Requirements/Expectations:  Must be able to mutitask and work in a
> challenging, fast paced environment. EDI knowledge is necessary.
> Terrific opportunities for technical growth and training. Solid
> programming skills expected.
>
> Barry  Rogen
> PNY Technologies, Inc.
> Senior  Programmer/Analyst
> (973)  515 - 9700  ext 5327
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -
> Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win
> glorious triumphs even though checkered by
> failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who
> neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live
> in the gray twilight that knows neither victory
> nor defeat.t. roosevelt
> 
> ---
> u2-users mailing list
> u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
>


-- 
john
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RE: [U2] UD Backups

[Brutzman, Bill]

Bill--

I like it a lot.  I googled this subject a few months ago and did not found
much.  At the time, I did not look at Wiki.

I look forward to picking through the script over the next few days and
weeks.  Thanks.

--Bill


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bill Haskett
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 11:47 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] UD Backups


Bill:

Try http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?AutomateNTBackup.

Let me know if this helps.

Bill 

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brutzman, Bill
>Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 6:19 AM
>To: 'u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org'
>Subject: RE: [U2] UD Backups
>
>Bill:
>
>I would be interested to look over these NT scripts...  
>
>--Bill
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bill Haskett
>Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 7:32 PM
>To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
>Subject: RE: [U2] UD Backups
>
>
>Colin:
>
>As always, thanks.  I guess it could be anything.  I was 
>thinking it was just how slow stuff is, and how much junk
>we're all willing to put up with.  :-)
>
>The cost is always a shock when one moves out of MV.  But, I'm 
>I'm getting used to it so pricing isn't that big a deal.  However,
>the backup solution has to be loaded on about 7 Windows servers.  
>As it stands now, I've built a couple of interesting NTBackup
>scripts that do everything for me, including ftp'ing the backups 
>across the network to a storage machine, emailing me, and cleaning
>up the archives (so I don't end up with so many backup files it 
>crashes the disk).
>
>Thanks again.
>
>Bill
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Re: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?

[Timothy Snyder]

> One of my clients has procs like this:
> 
> HRUN BP SOP1500
> STON
> HORDER<
> HCUSTOMER<
> HPRODUCT<
> HVENDOR<
> P
> 
> whereby the program (BP SOP1500) has the corresponding INPUT statements 
for
> the file names and opens them as F1, F2, F3 which is a real bear when
> reading the code.

Wow - that's just plan mean!  There may have been a thought that it was a 
way to avoid hard-coding file names in case they ever changed (though that 
would be a weak argument), but then they're hard-coded in the PROC, so I 
can't see any benefit at all, other than obfuscation.  The person that 
created it must have had a future grudge against whoever came along to 
maintain the code.  "Take my job from me, did you?  I'll teach you a 
lesson."  :-)

Tim Snyder
Consulting I/T Specialist
U2 Lab Services
Information Management, IBM Software Group
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Re: [U2] [AD] UniVerse Programmer needed in New Jersey

[john reid]

'Must be able to mutitask'
Is that like having the capability to alter the biocharacteristics of
a task, sort've on the fly?'
Just kidding
john

On 6/28/07, Barry Rogen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 Position:   Full time, permanent  U2 programmer
   Environment:   UniVerse, residing on HP systems
 Location:Northern New Jersey
 Experience Level:   1 - 5 years
 Type Business:   Manufacturing

  Requirements/Expectations:  Must be able to mutitask and work in a
challenging, fast paced environment. EDI knowledge is necessary.
Terrific opportunities for technical growth and training. Solid
programming skills expected.

Barry  Rogen
PNY Technologies, Inc.
Senior  Programmer/Analyst
(973)  515 - 9700  ext 5327
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win
glorious triumphs even though checkered by
failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who
neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live
in the gray twilight that knows neither victory
nor defeat.t. roosevelt

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--
john
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Re: [AD] [U2] Basic developments "reverse engineering" tool ?

[Brian Leach]

That's very difficult to trap.

Mark

It's a valid point and a common scenario.

I've taken two approaches in the past:

1. Dynamic analysis

This replaces certain constructs in the source code automatically with calls to 
subroutines or external functions that update the maps in real time. So for 
example every OPEN can be replaced with subroutine that writes the name of the 
program and the file opened to the audit files. However this is only under very 
controlled conditions, and never guaranteed to be complete - a particular file 
might only be opened as part of a year-end procedure for example and so the 
'correctness' of dynamic analysis depends on the code coverage.

2. Manual Labour

To accept that static analysis is always incomplete, but provide a way to 
identify where the incompleteness occurs (e.g. to log wherever there is an OPEN 
with a file name that cannot be determined) and provide a way for that link to 
be documented and completed manually so that eventually the map becomes as 
complete as possible.

It's the down side of having such a flexible platform, that it can make any 
form of automated auditing and analysis far more difficult.

Brian

How does it work with parameter driven code.

One of my clients has procs like this:

HRUN BP SOP1500
STON
HORDER<
HCUSTOMER<
HPRODUCT<
HVENDOR<
P

whereby the program (BP SOP1500) has the corresponding INPUT statements for
the file names and opens them as F1, F2, F3 which is a real bear when
reading the code. Plus all of the bottom line field prompts are also
tableized. Very klugy and not friendly at all.

I tend to copy the program in question to another place and do a global
replace of the R/F1/ORDER just to see the flow.

Thanks
Mark Johnson
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