Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP?
From: Steve Romanow Look at the number of language bindings for most db's. U2 has 2, and they are ok, but only 2. MongoDB has like 10-20. That problem is easily fixed technically. Language bindings don't need to come from the DBMS vendors. And let's face it, they aren't that creative and they don't want to invest too much unless they see tangible returns in terms of license sales. So this like other projects will have to be a community undertaking anyway, as it is with every other platform out there. I've already started this project actually, and run it by some respected community members to validate the concept. As always, the problem is that projects like this, for the good of everyone, tend to fall on the few who often can afford it the least. I'm going to use I and me below, but this applies to anyone in this market who does free development as a community service. There are a lot of us here. I create things like language bindings because I think it's cool and because it will help our market. In the mean time there are people fearing for loss of their jobs because their platform of choice is too obscure and missing language bindings (for example) that are common everywhere else. Demand/motivation and supply/desire in this market must learn to meet in the middle. I know if I solicit donations so that I can pay my mortgage while providing you (collectively) with something that will increase the value of your platform, I'll be shunned for trying to sell yet another product (what a concept *sigh*). The public outcry will be deafening but it should be FREE, implying of course that someone else should do the work for free for everyone's benefit, like it is (supposedly) in the rest of the world. With no motivation, this project that has been in the queue for about two years, will remain on the bottom of the TODO list, and may never get finished. (Personal note: And for anyone who thinks I only do things for-fee, look for my name at Codeplex, Sourceforge, github, and elsewhere. I do contribute to FOSS, and I contribute freeware to this market as well. But when my free time translates to someone else's profitability or continued employment, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for something in return. Generous does not equal stupid.) But if neither I nor anyone else does this (for free or fee), the net result will be that some years later people will still be lamenting in forums that such things don't exist and that it should all come from the DBMS vendors. Nothing will change. I've been saying that for years and here we are - nothing has changed. That fundamental mindset is really what cripples this market. That's also what doesn't change. It's not a lack of communication tools, language bindings, admin utilities, or other things people mention occasionally. If people attach value to things they say are valuable to them, this market may actually move forward a little. Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute! http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP?
As ever well said Tony However I do think the DBMS vendor needs to take some responsibility, the reason why mongo DB has so many language bindings (i am a big fan of mongo btw) is because the dbms supplier has provided many resources and open code itself to the market. Who on this list would know where to start writing language bindings into u2 - how much help would rocket give to the community - and what licensing restrictions will we be burdened with if we did it maybe this is something for the better and better group ?? From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: 03 February 2011 08:34 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP? From: Steve Romanow Look at the number of language bindings for most db's. U2 has 2, and they are ok, but only 2. MongoDB has like 10-20. That problem is easily fixed technically. Language bindings don't need to come from the DBMS vendors. And let's face it, they aren't that creative and they don't want to invest too much unless they see tangible returns in terms of license sales. So this like other projects will have to be a community undertaking anyway, as it is with every other platform out there. I've already started this project actually, and run it by some respected community members to validate the concept. As always, the problem is that projects like this, for the good of everyone, tend to fall on the few who often can afford it the least. I'm going to use I and me below, but this applies to anyone in this market who does free development as a community service. There are a lot of us here. I create things like language bindings because I think it's cool and because it will help our market. In the mean time there are people fearing for loss of their jobs because their platform of choice is too obscure and missing language bindings (for example) that are common everywhere else. Demand/motivation and supply/desire in this market must learn to meet in the middle. I know if I solicit donations so that I can pay my mortgage while providing you (collectively) with something that will increase the value of your platform, I'll be shunned for trying to sell yet another product (what a concept *sigh*). The public outcry will be deafening but it should be FREE, implying of course that someone else should do the work for free for everyone's benefit, like it is (supposedly) in the rest of the world. With no motivation, this project that has been in the queue for about two years, will remain on the bottom of the TODO list, and may never get finished. (Personal note: And for anyone who thinks I only do things for-fee, look for my name at Codeplex, Sourceforge, github, and elsewhere. I do contribute to FOSS, and I contribute freeware to this market as well. But when my free time translates to someone else's profitability or continued employment, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for something in return. Generous does not equal stupid.) But if neither I nor anyone else does this (for free or fee), the net result will be that some years later people will still be lamenting in forums that such things don't exist and that it should all come from the DBMS vendors. Nothing will change. I've been saying that for years and here we are - nothing has changed. That fundamental mindset is really what cripples this market. That's also what doesn't change. It's not a lack of communication tools, language bindings, admin utilities, or other things people mention occasionally. If people attach value to things they say are valuable to them, this market may actually move forward a little. Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute! http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3418 - Release Date: 02/02/11 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP?
I doubt a visual tool will ever be faster than text for problems of any complexity. If you have a lot of boilerplate code you either aren't coding very well or your programming language needs to evolve. Not that that helps if you have to deal with 300,000 lines of somebody elses code in some backwards ancient language. A lot of code could already be done with AI techniques, and is a hobby of mine, assuming you know what you want. My experience though is that programmers can find the solutions you need instead of what you asked for. I hate proprietary software because of license issues. The cost isn't near as much an issue as figuring out licensing, poor documentation, and poor support. I don't want to spend days on the phone with some hotshot kid that knows diddly but keeps giving attitude. Thanks, Michael McGlothlin Sent from my iPad On Feb 2, 2011, at 10:15 PM, Dan McGrath dmc...@imb.com.au wrote: That's a false argument. They have been pandering that line ever since programming started as a profession. After all, wasn't that COBOL was meant to do? The business can do it! Programmers are NOT people who merely read/write code. Programmers are problem solvers. It will also be a speciality. At least until (if ever) we have a suitable AI and in that case, say good bye to almost every job and say hello to the world of Wall-E. As to being one of those people, while I may not have 40+ years experience, I've done everything from x86 ASM to .NET. What I appreciate are tools which can help abstract away pointless boilerplate code, reduce typing (Intellipoint), increase maintainability, scalability, etc. I want to concentrate on the business logic, not work out how I have to redesign solutions because the DB licence structure is restrictive (and excessively prohibitive in the age of the web). -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Sent: Thursday, 3 February 2011 3:48 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP? Be careful what you wish for. I didn't start out as a programmer, my degree is in Electronics Engineering, my early career was designing, building, and repairing many of the early computer systems. As time went on I had to change what I was doing because with throw away computer parts you no longer need a person that can tell you what is inside of the box all you need is someone that can replace it. The same thing is happening in the software business. With all of the new point and click tools you will eventually no longer need someone that can actually read code. Why do you think all of the software jobs are being outsourced. A person that needs to read code is no longer needed. As soon as they can figure out how to make the tools build logic into it, you're gone. It's not that far in the future. Now if you are one of the people that could never read the code or make heads or tails of business logic I can see why you would want the stuff that does it for you, but I don't think you are. Jerry On 2/2/2011 9:42 PM, Dan McGrath wrote: There are people who work on/drive cars much older than that. Yes, they still work, are functional and can sometimes look amazing. When it comes to utility though, they rarely match the total feature set available on the newer cars. Side Passenger Airbags, smoother rides, 5 star safety ratings, air conditioning... Point being, just because something is old and still in use, doesn't mean it is the best solution either technically or productively wise. It can have its place, but not every place. Unless of course they continue to evolve it, not just keep it running. I love MV databases and the unique opportunities it presents. It also has its issues that have been solved for a long time in 'the newest fashion fad' for which the MV databases desperately need to catch up with. Well, that is if they really want to increase the development/market share of the product, as opposed to merely 'supporting' current ISV solutions just enough to stop people absolutely needing to migrate away. * If I had anything remotely as useful/polished as Visual Studio to develop my life would be bliss. ** Development toolset in general is severely lacking * Licence model is frustration+ if you stray away from Telnet sessions ** It's so open to interpretation its ridiculous -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Sent: Thursday, 3 February 2011 2:09 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP? There are people on this list that have been working with this database for 40 years or more, can you say that about the products you are so hyped up on. This database/environment/platform has outlived all other databases. It has outlived it's creators. It
Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP?
Tony I think you're missing something here if I may be so BOLD, since I'm never ever bold... ok anyway to be serious In the history of our community, there have been people who developed a product, created a market for it, that was evidently so interesting to one of the hardware/os vendors, that they got bought up. It's true. So I wouldn't say that it's not possible to write something NOT from an os vendor, and yet be a marketable *tool* (not business application). I believe, I've encountered several tools and systems programs that were third-party add-ons. And then I blink and suddenly... its part of Adds or whoever. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP?
That is part of the business environment though. Apple bought CUPS, Bottomline bought Optio. Oracle bought mysql, java, and openoffice. The only real protection is know your licensing, and be prepared to replace any part of your stack if the application functionality, usage terms, or support costs get too onerous. Since I am not a tool vendor, but a tool user the only real allegiance I have is to my employer and myself. I can see how it can be tough to pay a mortgage selling tools. So I wouldn't say that it's not possible to write something NOT from an os vendor, and yet be a marketable *tool* (not business application). I believe, I've encountered several tools and systems programs that were third-party add-ons. And then I blink and suddenly... its part of Adds or whoever. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] How to find and fix a broken lock?
Has a Uv errlog been set up? Is there anything in the errlog to suggest a problem? Dan Fitzgerald wrote: I don't think it's a lock problem for your record. Much more likely is a data problem. Also a possibility is file corruption. Third thing that pops to mind is the program that does the update encountering a weird condition that sends it into a rarely used set of instructions. I'd also look for a null (or weird, or incorrect) value in a foreign key. I once worked at an HMO where somebody somehow created a null vendor record. So, every doctor who didn't have a vendor record had a null in that field, and this little 4-doc practice, the null vendor, was getting checks for $2-5M every month. You'd think they'd be happy, but they actually were a bit freaked out about it. What generates the order number? Are there conditions where that logic can fail? This sounds like an excellent opportunity to use the debugger. Set a break point in the program, and step through, examining the variables as you go. Pay special attention to whatever generates/assembles the order #. From: micha...@plumbersstock.com Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 17:35:48 -0700 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] How to find and fix a broken lock? I don't see it listed. Here is what it did return. I'm looking for entity 40936. list.readu every Active Group Locks: Record Group Group Group Device Inode Netnode Userno Lmode G-Address. Locks ...RD ...SH ...EX 2686979 462014 0 53135 5 IN 10D000 1 0 0 0 2686979 7005 0 53135 24 IN 4800 1 0 0 0 655364 4098 0 57139 26 IN 1 1 0 0 0 2686979 462014 0 53135 31 IN 23A000 1 0 0 0 2686979 154 0 40639 42 IN 600 2 0 0 0 2686979 7039 0 40789 59 RD 5AAE000 0 1 0 0 2686979 154 0 44775 64 IN 1600 1 0 0 0 2686979 154 0 53135 80 IN 1000 1 0 0 0 2686979 462014 0 53135 81 IN 521000 1 0 0 0 2686979 462014 0 53135 81 IN 5E3000 1 0 0 0 Active Record Locks: Device Inode Netnode Userno Lmode Pid Login Id Item-ID. 2686979 462014 0 61405 5 RU 528386 eclipseB %WEB.PH.SESSION.MONITOR 2686979 7005 0 57139 24 RU 368822 eclipseB FAX.FEEDBACK3 655364 4098 0 57139 26 RU 368822 eclipseB fax_feed3 2686979 462014 0 52985 31 RU 471274 eclipseB WIDGET.PHANTOM 2686979 154 0 40639 42 RU 1302770 eclipseB JOB.SCHEDULER 2686979 154 0 65263 42 RU 1179848 eclipseB TC.TIMESHEET.PH.SERVER 2686979 154 0 44775 64 RU 512250 eclipseB SOCKET.PH.SERVER Press any key to continue... 2686979 154 0 53135 80 RU 1683466 eclipseB SYSTEM.ADMIN 2686979 462014 0 65461 81 RU 557096 eclipseB THREAD.MANAGER 2686979 462014 0 52973 81 RU 1061074 eclipseB MSG.PH.SERVER Thanks, Michael McGlothlin On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Dan Fitzgerald dangf...@hotmail.com wrote: What does the TCL command LIST.READU EVERY return? Do you see that customer # or order # in there? From: micha...@plumbersstock.com Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 16:26:18 -0700 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] How to find and fix a broken lock? I'm not greatly familiar with Universe but I have a background in programming and Unix so I hope I can figure this problem out. I have access to AIX and DataVu Query. We use Activant Eclipse which seems to be built on Universe and their support is completely useless. Their technical support keeps blaming our problem on a network issue which doesn't even make sense and their networking department has already proven isn't the issue. We've been working with them on the issue for more than a month without progress so I need to find another way to fix the issue. We have a process that takes a customer id and some order parameters and pushes an order into the system and returns the resulting order number or an error. Our problem is that for a certain customer that we use a lot is that it allows the order to be pushed in, without failing, but does not return an order number or an error. Orders from other customers work as expected. Originally the problem started when we were pulling a report for that customer with their order history - which failed. To me this suggests that someplace there is a lock in place for that customer that hasn't been removed or something of that nature. Any ideas how I could look for this or fix it? Thanks, Michael McGlothlin ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list
[U2] [Announcement]International Spectrum Florida 2011 Conference
International Spectrum Conference and Exhibition Attend the Premier MultiValue User Event April 4th-7th Benefits International Spectrum makes a special effort to bring together the tools you need to make sure you and your MultiValue (UniVerse, UniData, D3, jBase, OpenInsight, Reality, QM, Cache') Enterprise stay on the competitive edge. Whether you are an end user, a vendor, or an independent consultant, you get to talk to MultiValue (UniVerse, UniData, D3, jBase, OpenInsight, Reality, QM, Cache') experts and see the latest products, tools, software releases, and general corporate updates from the vendors and database providers. Work Smarter, Not Harder! Join us for session topics that will help you maximize your existing business system with as little effort as possible, and still say on-time and in-budget. We include session on Reporting and Business Intelligence, Web development, as well as many other detail technical sessions you need to manage and maintain your MultiValue Enterprise. Highlights - Learn from Premier MultiValue Consultants at your choice of in-depth educational sessions. - Expand your knowledge at vendor-sponsored training and demonstrations. - Learn about the new products, tools, and features available to the MultiValue community. Register Now - Save $200.00 before February 23rd http://www.intl-spectrum.com/conference/show/11/default.aspx 8 Weeks Left Full Conference Package: $895.00 1 Day Conference Package: $695.00 After February 23rd Full Conference Package: $1,095.00 1 Day Conference Package: $795.00 More Information: http://www.intl-spectrum.com/conference/show/11/default.aspx Hotel Information: PGA Resort 800-633-9150 Room Rate: Single/Double $159.00 Special Rate Cut-off: March 14th ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP?
The problem as I see it Tony is twofold. 1) By having to pay for something as elemental as language bindings, you are effectively limiting U2 to already established companies. Why would a start-up pay to experiment with U2 when there are better supported *free* development stacks with larger communities? It doesn't make sense. That's why U2 is limited and won't grow beyond the small community that already uses it. 2) Is it really that easily fixed without Rocket? How do create a language binding for U2 without several issues. Firstly, UniObjects is a bad interface on a security level (really, if I need to call a subroutine, the port allows them to run ECL commands as well? Is this 1980?), so building a binding on top of that is a horrible idea if you intend it to be widespread. So if not UniObjects, what? Native phantoms cannot fork so we cannot have an effective service running without an external OS dependent multiplexer in between. Yes, I can see people be lured by a DB that requires you to not only set it up, but also another service separated (and downloaded separated) just to use their language of choice when MySQL and brethren are supported out of the box. It isn't a matter of what you *can* do, it is how easily and effective you can do it compared to the other available stacks. When I develop in my free time where I don't have access to work's systems, why would I bother with U2 where I have to build not only the tool chain myself, but also the language bindings (or pay for them) when I can fire up CakePHP + MySQL where all already exists, is well documented, large support communities and it is easy to find other developers already skilled in it. Don't get me wrong though, I completely respect that you cannot always offer the toil of hours for free. It shouldn't be an issue with basic development tools though, why should we, as a community, build the toolset for a vendor to ultimately profit from? That's where Rocket's responsibility comes in. Their product, their prerogative as to whether they simply support the existing status quo or actively enable new players to enter the and expand the market space. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Thursday, 3 February 2011 7:34 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP? From: Steve Romanow Look at the number of language bindings for most db's. U2 has 2, and they are ok, but only 2. MongoDB has like 10-20. That problem is easily fixed technically. Language bindings don't need to come from the DBMS vendors. And let's face it, they aren't that creative and they don't want to invest too much unless they see tangible returns in terms of license sales. So this like other projects will have to be a community undertaking anyway, as it is with every other platform out there. I've already started this project actually, and run it by some respected community members to validate the concept. As always, the problem is that projects like this, for the good of everyone, tend to fall on the few who often can afford it the least. I'm going to use I and me below, but this applies to anyone in this market who does free development as a community service. There are a lot of us here. I create things like language bindings because I think it's cool and because it will help our market. In the mean time there are people fearing for loss of their jobs because their platform of choice is too obscure and missing language bindings (for example) that are common everywhere else. Demand/motivation and supply/desire in this market must learn to meet in the middle. I know if I solicit donations so that I can pay my mortgage while providing you (collectively) with something that will increase the value of your platform, I'll be shunned for trying to sell yet another product (what a concept *sigh*). The public outcry will be deafening but it should be FREE, implying of course that someone else should do the work for free for everyone's benefit, like it is (supposedly) in the rest of the world. With no motivation, this project that has been in the queue for about two years, will remain on the bottom of the TODO list, and may never get finished. (Personal note: And for anyone who thinks I only do things for-fee, look for my name at Codeplex, Sourceforge, github, and elsewhere. I do contribute to FOSS, and I contribute freeware to this market as well. But when my free time translates to someone else's profitability or continued employment, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for something in return. Generous does not equal stupid.) But if neither I nor anyone else does this (for free or fee), the net result will be that some years later people will still be lamenting in forums that such things don't exist and that it should all come from the DBMS vendors. Nothing will change. I've been saying that for years
[U2] Scripps Networking Services
Has anybody heard about a job opportunity with this company, contact names Dan Maxwell and/or Jenna Wade? I heard from them yesterday I want to know if anybody else has. They seem to be looking for Pick/U2 people. Karen Bessel Developer Tyler Technologies, Inc. 972.713.3770 ext: 113472 www.tylertech.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2U Australia
Looks like it will be a small conference ;) See you there. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kate Stanton Sent: Thursday, 3 February 2011 1:19 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] U2U Australia Hi Dan, Yes, I and my sister Eleanor have registered. See you there! Cheers, Kate Kate Stanton Walstan Systems Ltd 4 Kelmarna Ave, Herne Bay, Auckland 1011, New Zealand Phone: + 64 9 360 5310 Mobile: + 64 21 400 486 Email: k...@walstan.com On 3 February 2011 10:41, Dan McGrath dmc...@imb.com.au wrote: Anyone on here registered for U2U Aus yet? I want to try and put faces to names (or email addresses) when I'm there :) ## # The information transmitted in this message and attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files with the permission of IMB. ## # ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ### The information transmitted in this message and attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files with the permission of IMB. ### ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2U Australia
I'm now registered. See youse all there! ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] Ultimate UPDATE process migration path ? anyone? anyone ?
Let's say, you happen to stumble across a site that is using Ultimate's UPDATE processor. Did any other vendor ever have a migration path off this ? Ever? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP?
From: Wol The problem is, where do you put the layers. That's my beef with relational, the layer is in COMPLETELY the wrong place. This means a large chunk of information, which *belongs* in the database layer, *has* to be put into the business layer. That inspired another blog. :) Multi-tier coding patterns with MV nospamNebula-RnD.com/blog/tech/mv/2011/02/mv-patterns1.html T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] The sky is so falling! {Unclassified}
There's no place like ::1 ;-)
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of HENDERSON MIKE,
MR
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 2:29 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: [U2] The sky is so falling! {Unclassified}
In case you hadn't already heard, IANA has allocated the last blocks of
IPv4 addresses to the Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). There are *NO
MORE*, the cupboard is bare.
See, amongst what will doubtless be lots of others,
http://www.apnic.net/final-five.
If AfriNIC is your RIR, you'll probably be able to get an IPv4 address
allocation for several years.
IF APNIC (which serves China, India, Korea and Japan as well as
Australia NZ) is your RIR, you'll be flat out of luck before Christmas
- some commentators say as soon as July.
So, how IPv6 Ready is the U2 community?
How IPv6 Ready are you?
E.g. Have you got any tables where you store IP addresses? If so, what
happens when you need to store and display/list
DEAD:BEEF::1020:17AA:0236:1AAA instead of 192.168.215.132?
The fun is about to start
:-)
Regards
Mike
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If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, copy or
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If you have received this message in error, please Email or telephone
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Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP?
This reminds me of the spare light bulbs in our home. My wife keeps them in five (5) different places. I keep complaining I can never find the right light bulb for the right light fixture with a burned out bulb. :-) When software is spread around like the spare light bulbs in our house, perhaps this should alert us that things aren't very good, and the industry needs to take a good hard look at their practices. :-) Bill Tony Gravagno said the following on 2/3/2011 2:48 PM: From: Wol The problem is, where do you put the layers. That's my beef with relational, the layer is in COMPLETELY the wrong place. This means a large chunk of information, which *belongs* in the database layer, *has* to be put into the business layer. That inspired another blog. :) Multi-tier coding patterns with MV nospamNebula-RnD.com/blog/tech/mv/2011/02/mv-patterns1.html T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] Universe Books?
I'm trying to find books on Universe but very little seems to come up. Is there anything you can recommend for someone trying to teach themselves? Thanks, Michael McGlothlin ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Universe Books?
Brian Leach has some. http://www.brianleach.co.uk/pages/books.htm -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Michael McGlothlin Sent: Friday, 4 February 2011 10:31 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] Universe Books? I'm trying to find books on Universe but very little seems to come up. Is there anything you can recommend for someone trying to teach themselves? Thanks, Michael McGlothlin ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ### The information transmitted in this message and attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files with the permission of IMB. ### ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP?
-Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 3:34 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP? From: Steve Romanow Look at the number of language bindings for most db's. U2 has 2, and they are ok, but only 2. MongoDB has like 10-20. That problem is easily fixed technically. Language bindings don't need to come from the DBMS vendors. And let's face it, they aren't that creative and they don't want to invest too much unless they see tangible returns in terms of license sales. So this like other projects will have to be a community undertaking anyway, as it is with every other platform out there. I've already started this project actually, and run it by some respected community members to validate the concept. Actually I think they should be responsible, but the decisions of which bindings are made available should only be driven by the community. The vendor knows their own product and what it is capable of better than anyone else. All-Spec sells product for a profit as a way to operate but we are also solutions providers on many facets. With that in mind I see parallels here compared to a DB vendor offering a product that works as part of a business solution. To that end, I would never spend time and money researching and building web services or desktop applications for our customers if they have no use for them. Why should the DB vendor spend time and money building a language binding that no wants and is not readily useable in an existing business solution? On the flip side, I also would not leave it up to our customers to build their own inquiry app that scrapes our web pages for stock and pricing. I would prefer to provide them with a proper interface that fits their needs so we can finish the job and move on to other tasks. Unfortunately, unless both sides are eager to meet in the middle for the benefit of both then a symbiotic relationship will never happen. In many cases the possibility of such a relationship is never discussed or offered and therefore a lack of technological capability is wrongfully perceived. As always, the problem is that projects like this, for the good of everyone, tend to fall on the few who often can afford it the least. We've both started building fires that smoldered and died due to a lack of attention. At some point you have to move on when it becomes obvious that the community is not interested. When you know your vision is right, though, you should step back and change your scope of view on the project. The approach you're taking may be the primary incentive for your involvement, but the goal is just wrong. The opposite is also true as I've experienced. The goal may be popular but the original approach to get there is too convoluted or requires too many different skill sets to establish a functioning starter project. I'm going to use I and me below, but this applies to anyone in this market who does free development as a community service. There are a lot of us here. I create things like language bindings because I think it's cool and because it will help our market. In the mean time there are people fearing for loss of their jobs because their platform of choice is too obscure and missing language bindings (for example) that are common everywhere else. Demand/motivation and supply/desire in this market must learn to meet in the middle. You can't save the inept or the obstinate so don't expect solutions for them to bring you income. Make your fun tools, during your free time, because you want to. I know you do that and I do that too. I just don't publish them anymore. :) FOSS is a great way to enhance technology, but only if the end-users trust the developers and are willing to work hand-in-hand with them to keep the project moving. How often is it that a tool or solution is dropped in, plugged up, and then forgotten about for years? Most of the solutions deployed in our community are rock-solid performers and they don't need much attention once they're deployed. You can't expect just anyone to pick up a FOSS project that's a year old, backed by 2 or 3 periodic coders and say I just gotta play with that on our 1000-user system. I know if I solicit donations so that I can pay my mortgage while providing you (collectively) with something that will increase the value of your platform, I'll be shunned for trying to sell yet another product (what a concept *sigh*). The public outcry will be deafening but it should be FREE, implying of course that someone else should do the work for free for everyone's benefit, like it is (supposedly) in the rest of the world. With no motivation, this project that has been in the queue for about two years, will remain on the bottom of the TODO list, and may never get finished. (Personal
Re: [U2] Universe Books?
Yes give me fifteen minutes, I'm building the list now. -Original Message- From: Michael McGlothlin micha...@plumbersstock.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Feb 3, 2011 3:31 pm Subject: [U2] Universe Books? I'm trying to find books on Universe but very little seems to come up. Is there anything you can recommend for someone trying to teach themselves? Thanks, Michael McGlothlin ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] The sky is so falling! {Unclassified}
I had to read that five times before I got it. lol
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Larry Hiscock
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 2:52 PM
To: 'U2 Users List'
Subject: Re: [U2] The sky is so falling! {Unclassified}
There's no place like ::1 ;-)
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of HENDERSON MIKE,
MR
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 2:29 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: [U2] The sky is so falling! {Unclassified}
In case you hadn't already heard, IANA has allocated the last blocks of
snip
The fun is about to start
:-)
Regards
Mike
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Re: [U2] Universe Books?
Okay Michael go here http://knol.google.com/k/pick-universe-unidata-resources#view near the bottom of the page there is a heading Other Media and I've listed three books there on Pick -Original Message- From: Michael McGlothlin micha...@plumbersstock.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Feb 3, 2011 3:31 pm Subject: [U2] Universe Books? I'm trying to find books on Universe but very little seems to come up. Is there anything you can recommend for someone trying to teach themselves? Thanks, Michael McGlothlin ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Universe Books?
The book to get is Malcolm Bull's The Pick Programming Language, Chapman Hall, London, (c) 1994, ISBN 0 412 46660 0. Also, there are some outstanding resources at www.brianleach.co.uk folder tab Books. --Bill - Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Michael McGlothlin Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 6:31 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] Universe Books? I'm trying to find books on Universe but very little seems to come up. Is there anything you can recommend for someone trying to teach themselves? Thanks, Michael McGlothlin ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP?
I agree with Glen here. Every cool tool with which I've ever been involved, has been actually written for some customer, on their dime. Then some agreement was reached at some point, that the tool could be marketed separately. And voila, we have a hundred tools running around the marketplace (or at least we did before 75 of them were gobbled up by hardware vendors). If there is enough of a market interest than all the specialized hooks embedded for Customer X and Y have to be removed before the product is really saleable, or else you have to tell the customer you have to customize it for them, which really means taking out all the special hooks while they pay for it :) -Original Message- From: Glen Batchelor webmas...@all-spec.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Feb 3, 2011 3:46 pm Subject: Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP? Actually I think they should be responsible, but the decisions of which bindings are made available should only be driven by the community. The vendor knows their own product and what it is capable of better than anyone else. All-Spec sells product for a profit as a way to operate but we are also solutions providers on many facets. With that in mind I see parallels here compared to a DB vendor offering a product that works as part of a business solution. To that end, I would never spend time and money researching and building web services or desktop applications for our customers if they have no use for them. Why should the DB vendor spend time and money building a language binding that no wants and is not readily useable in an existing business solution? On the flip side, I also would not leave it up to our customers to build their own inquiry app that scrapes our web pages for stock and pricing. I would prefer to provide them with a proper interface that fits their needs so we can finish the job and move on to other tasks. Unfortunately, unless both sides are eager to meet in the middle for the benefit of both then a symbiotic relationship will never happen. In many cases the possibility of such a relationship is never discussed or offered and therefore a lack of technological capability is wrongfully perceived. As always, the problem is that projects like this, for the good of everyone, tend to fall on the few who often can afford it the least. We've both started building fires that smoldered and died due to a lack of attention. At some point you have to move on when it becomes obvious that the community is not interested. When you know your vision is right, though, you should step back and change your scope of view on the project. The approach you're taking may be the primary incentive for your involvement, but the goal is just wrong. The opposite is also true as I've experienced. The goal may be popular but the original approach to get there is too convoluted or requires too many different skill sets to establish a functioning starter project. I'm going to use I and me below, but this applies to anyone in this market who does free development as a community service. There are a lot of us here. I create things like language bindings because I think it's cool and because it will help our market. In the mean time there are people fearing for loss of their jobs because their platform of choice is too obscure and missing language bindings (for example) that are common everywhere else. Demand/motivation and supply/desire in this market must learn to meet in the middle. You can't save the inept or the obstinate so don't expect solutions for them to bring you income. Make your fun tools, during your free time, because you want to. I know you do that and I do that too. I just don't publish them anymore. :) FOSS is a great way to enhance technology, but only if the end-users trust the developers and are willing to work hand-in-hand with them to keep the project moving. How often is it that a tool or solution is dropped in, plugged up, and then forgotten about for years? Most of the solutions deployed in our community are rock-solid performers and they don't need much attention once they're deployed. You can't expect just anyone to pick up a FOSS project that's a year old, backed by 2 or 3 periodic coders and say I just gotta play with that on our 1000-user system. I know if I solicit donations so that I can pay my mortgage while providing you (collectively) with something that will increase the value of your platform, I'll be shunned for trying to sell yet another product (what a concept *sigh*). The public outcry will be deafening but it should be FREE, implying of course that someone else should do the work for free for everyone's benefit, like it is (supposedly) in the rest of the world. With no motivation, this project that has been in the queue for about two years, will remain on the bottom of the
Re: [U2] Universe Books?
Since no one else mentioned them, Rocket Software does have all the manuals online as PDF's. http://www.rocketsoftware.com/u2/resources/technical-resources Cheers, djm - Learn and Do Excel and Share http://mvdbs.com http://mvdbs.com -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Universe-Books--tp30840562p30840802.html Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] What do you do with CallHTTP?
On 02/02/11 18:57, Wols Lists wrote: The problem is, where do you put the layers. That's my beef with relational, the layer is in COMPLETELY the wrong place. This means a large chunk of information, which *belongs* in the database layer, *has* to be put into the business layer. Even the wording of relational theory makes this clear - data is stored as attributes. Attributes of what? Without an object to belong to, an attribute is meaningless, but you can't store an object in an RDBMS. To expand on this - let's say you want to store a list. Where do you store the sequence information? Bearing in mind that, as far as the real world is concerned, this is metadata ... so it DOESN'T belong mixed up in the same table as the data :-) And how do you tell a relational database that data is mutually co-dependent? That if one piece of data ceases to exist in the real world, all these other pieces will also cease to exist at the same time? Unless they're all single-valued, and fit in the same row, you can't! Unfortunately, relational theory is based on the premise that data comes already conveniently chopped up into rows and columns. Any information (data?) that links those rows and columns can't fit in the database, even if it belongs there. And it's the PB business analyst who is left trying to square the circle ... Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] UV - date last installed
How can I determine the date of the last installation of UV (the date it was last loaded/reloaded). Schalk van Zyl Schalk van Zyl GWK Beperk Tel+2753 298 8231 Fax+2753 298 2445 Mobile Hierdie e-pos en sy inhoud is onderhewig aan 'n regskennisgewing oor elektroniese pos wat gelees kan word by http://www.gwk.co.za/DisclaimerVrywaring.asp . ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
