Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
I too took typing in 9th grade (1972) and had peaked at around 75 words per minute properly using all 9 fingers. I feel that as a programmer we typists can type faster as we are typing a lot of the same words over and over. But perhaps that's slowed down by more punctuation characters being typed. I also had an old Underwood typewriter since I was 4 and always enjoyed typing. I was one of those nerds who typed everything except math homework in high school as I could actually type faster (and neater) than printing or writing. I even had one of the first home versions of an electric typewriter as my father had a home office with a secretary. My opinion on the mixed casing touches on something not yet touched on: Intelligent editors. Now I know that many on this forum are in other languages and can add my reasons for preferring upper case. 1. 99% of my client's code is long-term (legacy) that is written in exclusively upper case as lower case probably didn't work. 2. I've been reading upper case Pick code for over 29 years and it looks funny in mixed casing. 3. Even when I present a code example to this or the Raining Data forum, I tend to change the typeface to Courier. Seeing code in proportional spacing and mixed casing looks doubly strange. 4. I don't know about external editors for MV systems, but there's no real link between the editor environment and the compiler. The last comment comes from my limited use in VB. There, since I cannot use a period as my 'word delimiter' in a variable, ie CUST.REC, and I don't care for the underscore and truly dislike the $ as a delimiter, VB suggests that you declare variables in a Constants Module. In that module, you can DIM CustName as String and everywhere you type CUSTNAME or custname or CuStNaMe it will convert it to CustName. That kind of magic is missing in MV and as someone suggested, CustName could possibly not be the same as CUSTNAME. With that threat of working on this inherited MV code, I prefer upper case. That seems to serve me well as I straddle U2 systems as well as D3 and even older native and Microdata clients. Those older ones don't even allow lower case. In fact, early Microdata keyboards didn't have lower case letters, you had to use char(95) etc. My 2 Cents Mark Johnson PS. My kids (18 21) both use 2 finger typing and I beat them every time. On the other hand, they kill me with the T9 phone typing especially using all of the acronyms. As programmers, I've seen many 2 finger persons who just don't look as on the ball as they should. Not intellectually, just the slower rate of conveying their thoughts to the computer. Despite mousing, that's still our most prevelant form of coding. - Original Message - From: Eric Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 3:15 PM Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Along with Robert I also took Typing (along with football, tennis, soccer) in High School and am glad I did. Eric -Original Message- From: Robert Houben [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:24 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case BTW, to the comment about straight guys not taking typing: I know that they didn't usually, but when I was in high school back in the plasticine epoch (right after the Pleistocene epoch), a bunch of my friends and I took typing because we thought it would be an easy course (and there were girls in it!) Given my career, it was one of the most useful courses I took in High School - one of the few, in fact, where I can say that I still clearly reap the benefits of it every day! --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
They did teach keyboarding at my son's school, but with all of the phone texting that people (young people mainly) do these days is typing as we know it going to become obsolete? Do they even teach typing in school these day? My 15 year old daughter (who has had access to a computer since she was 2) is a fast 2 figure typist. I keep trying to get her to learn touch typing like I was taught in high school and college to no avail! She doesn't see the need for it! Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
All, My typing teacher actually sat down and cried after a session with me. On that note, I'd like to suggest that the High School musings move to U2-Community. END OF THREAD --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Does that mean he's going to have to do it with one hand tied behind his back? :-) Sorry Kevin I just had to do it. Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: Kevin King [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 9:40 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Bill... I never meant to imply that a) I was offended, b) that I'm somehow any better than anyone else on this list, or c) that I'm a slow typist. I actually went through typing in high school (a most traumatic story) and got reasonably good at touch typing in college until an accident left me without use of my right arm/hand for several weeks. And what language was I fully ensconced in at the time? COBOL! Can you believe it, I had to type something like 4000 lines of COBOL with my left hand only. Since then my right hand has been effectively useless for typing (with the exception of my thumb) but for some reason I can still whip out the letters - as long as I don't have to shift! :-) Understanding that this is largely a moot/preference issue, and without the pretense of better (in terms of personnel) I would still be interested in some kind of fun challenge to better understand others' perspectives on this issue. We might not actually achieve anything but the consumption of copious volumes of cold beverages, but even if that's all there is to it, there's still entertainment value there! -K --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
I had typing in school too. I think it was required. Being late for class the first day was both a blessing and a curse. A curse because the only typewriter left was a blind typewriter (no letters, numbers, or symbols on the keys); and a blessing because I learned the keyboard layout before anyone else in class. When my kids were younger I would show them a magic trick by draping a towel over my keyboard and hands, to prove I wasn't looking, and then I would type any sentence they could come up with. They were truly amazed and I believe it stirred them on to learn the home keys and correct fingering. David A. Green -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Armstrong Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 1:15 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Along with Robert I also took Typing (along with football, tennis, soccer) in High School and am glad I did. Eric -Original Message- From: Robert Houben [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:24 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case BTW, to the comment about straight guys not taking typing: I know that they didn't usually, but when I was in high school back in the plasticine epoch (right after the Pleistocene epoch), a bunch of my friends and I took typing because we thought it would be an easy course (and there were girls in it!) Given my career, it was one of the most useful courses I took in High School - one of the few, in fact, where I can say that I still clearly reap the benefits of it every day! --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
It was around 1973 when I took typing in Jr. High School without complaint. The nicest and best looking teacher (single) in the school was the typing teacher and I was able to take my shop class the next semester. I'm very grateful for having taken the opportunity to take typing back then. It's hard to quantify the benefits I have already reaped! Craig McDonald Gensco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 5:32 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case They did teach keyboarding at my son's school, but with all of the phone texting that people (young people mainly) do these days is typing as we know it going to become obsolete? Do they even teach typing in school these day? My 15 year old daughter (who has had access to a computer since she was 2) is a fast 2 figure typist. I keep trying to get her to learn touch typing like I was taught in high school and college to no avail! She doesn't see the need for it! Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
You can always count on an old brass-pounder to get the job done. 73 de (ex)WA4BCG === Norman Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.brake.com === How does a shelf salesman keep his store from looking empty? === Did you ever see the Jay Leno skit with two green-eyeshade gentlemen sending each other a message via Morse-code verses two of the best college text messagers? Green-eyeshaders won hands down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhsSgcsTMd4 Sometimes old is good! :-) --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Hi all, One of the sites I worked at has always had a string of contractors (short term and long term). One of the philosophies was to always make changes within a program in the same style of the original program, unless it is completely refactored (rewritten and replaced). If it was written in UPPER case, modify in UPPER case. Maybe the best situation is to petition IBM to make sure that different case styles will work within the editor, compiler and utility (SEARCH) programs. Then the issue is a matter for the user/developer/shop. But, with the introduction of eclipse this year from IBM as their preferred development environment for U2, this issue is NOT going away. Cheers, David Murray -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 11:36 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case I understand your point Brian. So what do we do with the situation where upper case is actually more readable to me and yet less readable to you? How do we rationalize such a dichotomy? -K --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008, Jerry Banker wrote... If you ever want a scare then go through the programs in the Universe BP file. Some are upper case program lines with mixed case comments and prompts, the way I prefer it, some are all lower case, some are mixed case, and some are a mixture of all types. In the latter it appears that whomever was programming at the time picked their preferred case. So it appears not only we mere mortals have a problem deciding what standard to use. If you REALLY want a scare go and look in Universe BP at RETURN TO usage. In PHELP it even mixes case use! (return to end.program and return to RETRY.SORT.BOX) Regards, Keith --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Kevin That's not a full lifecycle test - which is where the casing difference really comes in. If you want to set a test, have the two groups scan through reams of unfamiliar code, make sense of it, identify the bits to change and only then do the changes. That's where the benefit lies. Though I prefer mixed case, I am willing to admit that it takes me marginally longer to type in the first instance. When I come back to read and modify it months later, that's where the pain was worthwhile. Regards Brian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: 10 March 2008 14:12 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Bill, I followed you until this: * Upper case is an anachronism and should be treated as such rather than defended. It is unwieldy for far too many and, in fact, interferes with efficient typing at every turn. Forcing people to use [Caps Lock] in U2 while all other used applications require [Caps Lock] to be off is a egalitarian ruse for autocracy. :-) * While I understand this is intended to be slightly tongue-in-cheek, saying that it unequivocally interferes with efficient typing at every turn is quite possibly much more generalized of a statement than the discussion warrants. While I agree with your assessment about the mix of applications that we are using at any given moment which are using the caps lock in the off position, I find this to be a non-issue and rarely miss more than a couple of characters when switching between apps. For me personally, a couple of caps mistakes a week beats the thousands of times pressing the Shift key where I - notably a two-finger typist - have to get both hands involved. But rather than rely upon conjecture, why not actually test this theory? Let's setup a meeting at Spectrum where we each create a simple sample program using our case of choice, and we'll appoint an official timer to see which method produces the fastest results. Game? -K --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Bill, I followed you until this: * Upper case is an anachronism and should be treated as such rather than defended. It is unwieldy for far too many and, in fact, interferes with efficient typing at every turn. Forcing people to use [Caps Lock] in U2 while all other used applications require [Caps Lock] to be off is a egalitarian ruse for autocracy. :-) * While I understand this is intended to be slightly tongue-in-cheek, saying that it unequivocally interferes with efficient typing at every turn is quite possibly much more generalized of a statement than the discussion warrants. While I agree with your assessment about the mix of applications that we are using at any given moment which are using the caps lock in the off position, I find this to be a non-issue and rarely miss more than a couple of characters when switching between apps. For me personally, a couple of caps mistakes a week beats the thousands of times pressing the Shift key where I - notably a two-finger typist - have to get both hands involved. But rather than rely upon conjecture, why not actually test this theory? Let's setup a meeting at Spectrum where we each create a simple sample program using our case of choice, and we'll appoint an official timer to see which method produces the fastest results. Game? -K --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
I started to write this many times and each time it went against what my Mama always said, If you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all. Yes, I know that was also said it Bambi but it was around long before the movie. Mixed case programming is a relatively new way of programming and if you have had any time in the business you would realize this. Yes most programmers didn't learn typing because during the years when we went to school very few straight males took typing. Personally I think you should be thankful that those bumbling two finger geeks created the language that puts bread on your table. Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: Bill Haskett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 4:31 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Kevin: I'm sorry to say, on this rare occasion I disagree with your assessment. First, anyone who learned to type has no problem with the [Shift] key being used. In fact, those who've learned to type often type words instead of letters so there is nothing efficient in saving the [Shift] keystroke; to be honest, it's usually a problem not to include the key as part of the overall typing framework. I often laugh when I see C code because I know it was designed by geeks who couldn't type and are, ultimately, two finger peckers. :-) To those who say they don't have time to learn how to type I say they have an obligation to learn to use the tools of their trade. Do accountants not know how to use a 10-Key? Do doctors not know how to use a stethoscope? Do carpenters not know how to use a plane? Of course they know how to use them! With that said, let's look at some of the major aggravations of this case issue. Most of us, not all but most, have multiple windows open when we work. We may have a web browser open, or an email client, a word processor, a spreadsheet, or other applications. All of these applications, and I mean all of them, expect [Caps Lock] to be off (in fact, so does Unix)! When we move our focus to a U2 window we have to turn that darned function back on. When we go back to one of the other applications we end up typing cAPS lOCK all the time. This is so true that even when we watch demonstrations, where U2 is in the mix, we see the demonstrator having the same problem over, and over, and over (like switching back to U2 from another window to enter a TCL command, then backspacing over the typed in command to change it to upper case). For those who spend the majority of their time in the U2 environment, [Caps Lock] is probably set to on. However, for most of the rest of us it's a colossal aggravation, over, and over, and over. U2 (UV much more than UD) has come up with some partial solutions to this casing issue (because they recognize the error of their ways but it's too much trouble to fix it). UD is tough at ECL because case makes a big difference in an ECL verb. Having an ECL shell processor that can upper-case all commands doesn't quite work in UD when one wants to use a lower case ECL verb. With case sensitivity, it's clear there is a difference between the variable CUSTOMER.REC and Customer.Rec. I'm not at all convinced those who've thought this through really would create one variable CUSTOMER.REC and another variable Customer.Rec. Yet, again, upper- casing forces everyone to work around its serious limitations. The only place where I've found case to be important, other than in MV, is in command line options in Unix (here we run into those two finger geeks again). :-) Upper case is an anachronism and should be treated as such rather than defended. It is unwieldy for far too many and, in fact, interferes with efficient typing at every turn. Forcing people to use [Caps Lock] in U2 while all other used applications require [Caps Lock] to be off is a egalitarian ruse for autocracy. :-) This is, of course, IMHO... Bill _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 9:39 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case I am admittedly a dinosaur of the upper-case bent with U2. Before I put on my flame suit, hear me out.. We developers type thousands - possibly even millions - of characters of code per year To press the letter R with caps lock on or off is only one keypress - keeping in mind the state of the cApS LocK. To type READU then is only 5. ReadU however, is 7 - an increase of 40%. Now, assuming that a typical program is 4000 characters, there's a potential of an additional 1000+ shift keypresses just to maintain case. Meaningless, you say? Everything we do takes an investment of time, and even a fraction of a second can turn into a significant investment when multiplied times millions
Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
I understand your point Brian. So what do we do with the situation where upper case is actually more readable to me and yet less readable to you? How do we rationalize such a dichotomy? -K --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Kevin We - 1. Accept that the list is populated by long-term professionals whose opinions aren't going to be changed. 2. Accept that this is a learning and familiarity issue. 3. Do everything we can to promote best practice in legibility regardless of case. 4. Ensure that all learning materials aimed at those NEW to the platform - who will be more used to mixed case because everything else in the IT world uses it - are presented as such. 5. Sigh at the intransigence of the other side (whichever side you are on!) 6. Get rid of stupid compiler flags on UniData, which should be able to work it out for itself. Duh. 7. Go for a beer.. and find a typing course. Brian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: 10 March 2008 15:36 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case I understand your point Brian. So what do we do with the situation where upper case is actually more readable to me and yet less readable to you? How do we rationalize such a dichotomy? -K --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
I've not followed all this thread (in fact I only have the last few entries), but I think both camps have a point. I get frustrated turning CAPS on and off and if I were to sit and count the amount of times I press the CAPS-LOCK key I'd be completely amazed. I've been working with PICK on PC emulators all my career - I never studied typing but can quite happily key with 2-4 fingers each hand and largely without looking at the keyboard at all (perhaps just to regain reference every now and again). Switching Caps is almost a sub-conscious event - I am sure if I were to look at a recording of myself typing I'd be surprised how many times I switched the thing - right, then wrong, then right again - it's just second nature now. Oddly when I code I use mixed case VERBS KEYWORDS in upper case Variables Mixed Case but I have CAPS set on and hold my 'pinky' down to mix the cases on verbs - I find it's the easiest way for me - perhaps I am odd?? If you think you have problems working on an English/US keyboard try coding on the French AZERTY keyboards - now these foreign keyboards really do mess things up!! Recently on coming out of a Universe session I have noticed that the MS Office apps can detect you're in CAPS-LOCK mode and can optionally drop you to lower case - This is great, but I still probably switch the CAPS twice before I've even noticed the darn thing has done it for me!!! In conclusion I'd have to say that U2 is behind the times with it's CAPS requirement and it could change I guess if it was deemed to be of such importance... Either way I'd still type the same, and still mess with the CAPS-LOCK far more than necessary! Mike PS I find unix irritating that it does not recognise LS when I mean ls or CP when I mean cp - how hard can it be to have both cases valid for such a small command set? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: 10 March 2008 14:12 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Bill, I followed you until this: * Upper case is an anachronism and should be treated as such rather than defended. It is unwieldy for far too many and, in fact, interferes with efficient typing at every turn. Forcing people to use [Caps Lock] in U2 while all other used applications require [Caps Lock] to be off is a egalitarian ruse for autocracy. :-) * While I understand this is intended to be slightly tongue-in-cheek, saying that it unequivocally interferes with efficient typing at every turn is quite possibly much more generalized of a statement than the discussion warrants. While I agree with your assessment about the mix of applications that we are using at any given moment which are using the caps lock in the off position, I find this to be a non-issue and rarely miss more than a couple of characters when switching between apps. For me personally, a couple of caps mistakes a week beats the thousands of times pressing the Shift key where I - notably a two-finger typist - have to get both hands involved. But rather than rely upon conjecture, why not actually test this theory? Let's setup a meeting at Spectrum where we each create a simple sample program using our case of choice, and we'll appoint an official timer to see which method produces the fastest results. Game? -K --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
To paraphrase the ABATE folks: Let those who code decide. Unless I can get Donald Knuth to chime in on the subject (not likely since he stopped using email in 1990) I doubt that any of us are going to change each others minds. Especially the dinosaurs (used lovingly, and I include myself). Although it is a glorious sign of spring when the annual code case war springs up. Kevin King wrote: I understand your point Brian. So what do we do with the situation where upper case is actually more readable to me and yet less readable to you? How do we rationalize such a dichotomy? -K --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ -- Jeff Schasny - Denver, Co, USA IT Wrangler jschasny at gmail dot com --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
as I don't believe anything is unequivocal i will leave that for you all to argue over For me .. i find mixed case much easier to read and review. I attempt to follow humpBack or camelBack as my prefered method of typing but not a mandate. The system i work on mostly is an OLD d3 system which has the same programmers doing it the same way as in the olden days G just like i used to do. But bringing up a big program all in upper case with none or little spacing (1space max) and no blank lines (always using ed) is very hard to read. it is funny on email groups like this .. when someone types all in caps people complain that they are yelling G DSig David Tod Sigafoos SigsSolutions, Inc. Original Message Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case From: Brian Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, March 10, 2008 7:51 am To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Kevin That's not a full lifecycle test - which is where the casing difference really comes in. If you want to set a test, have the two groups scan through reams of unfamiliar code, make sense of it, identify the bits to change and only then do the changes. That's where the benefit lies. Though I prefer mixed case, I am willing to admit that it takes me marginally longer to type in the first instance. When I come back to read and modify it months later, that's where the pain was worthwhile. Regards Brian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: 10 March 2008 14:12 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Bill, I followed you until this: * Upper case is an anachronism and ! should be treated as such rather than defended. It is unwield y for far too many and, in fact, interferes with efficient typing at every turn. Forcing people to use [Caps Lock] in U2 while all other used applications require [Caps Lock] to be off is a egalitarian ruse for autocracy. :-) * While I understand this is intended to be slightly tongue-in-cheek, saying that it unequivocally interferes with efficient typing at every turn is quite possibly much more generalized of a statement than the discussion warrants. While I agree with your assessment about the mix of applications that we are using at any given moment which are using the caps lock in the off position, I find this to be a non-issue and rarely miss more than a couple of characters when switching between apps. For me personally, a couple of caps mistakes a week beats the thousands of times pressing the Shift key where I - notably a tw! o-finger typist - have to get both hands involved. But rather than rely upon conjecture, why not actually test this theory? Let's setup a meeting at Spectrum where we each create a simple sample program using our case of choice, and we'll appoint an official timer to see which method produces the fastest results. Game? -K --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Mike Farrant skrev: snip--- PS I find unix irritating that it does not recognise LS when I mean ls or CP when I mean cp - how hard can it be to have both cases valid for such a small command set? Not hard at all really: Put the following commands in Your environment file file: alias LS=ls alias CP=cp and You're done . (Assuming Korn shell ) If You don't have an environment file add one line in Your .profile: ENV=~mike/environment.sh ( substitute your login name and create the file in your login directory) Cheers -- mats --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
If you ever want a scare then go through the programs in the Universe BP file. Some are upper case program lines with mixed case comments and prompts, the way I prefer it, some are all lower case, some are mixed case, and some are a mixture of all types. In the latter it appears that whomever was programming at the time picked their preferred case. So it appears not only we mere mortals have a problem deciding what standard to use. My problem with mixed case in a program is not necessarily a reading issue but a search issue. Let's take the example of the variable var, if you use all caps it is easy to find, search on VAR. You can do the same thing if you have all lower case but then the programming doesn't stand out from the comments or the prompts. If you program in mixed (camel) case then you would have to start looking for VAR, VAr, VaR, Var, vAR, vAr, vaR, and var, I know that no one would use a three letter variable in this way but it is possible and this is just a three letter variable. You can see what happens if you use a longer variable or command or by throwing in numbers and special characters. It explodes exponentially. Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: Kevin King [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:36 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case I understand your point Brian. So what do we do with the situation where upper case is actually more readable to me and yet less readable to you? How do we rationalize such a dichotomy? -K --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
I've been listening to this with a mix of amusement and sympathy. I've been doing integration work between (originally DOS) and PICK since the early 80's, and have found myself shifting between C/C++/C#/Java/Other and PICK on a regular basis. I've come to accept that most of my customers want sample BASIC programs (or production ones) that are written in all caps, so I do that. I've also gotten good at doing the reverse caps thingy. That is, you are typing a program all in caps, and come to a line of user-text that needs to be mixed case, so I hold the shift key down to type lower case, releasing it for any letter that need's capitalization. I can do this at about 50 words per minute. I think I run about 70 in normal case, when I'm on a roll. How's that for a boundary skill? :) BTW, to the comment about straight guys not taking typing: I know that they didn't usually, but when I was in high school back in the plasticine epoch (right after the Pleistocene epoch), a bunch of my friends and I took typing because we thought it would be an easy course (and there were girls in it!) Given my career, it was one of the most useful courses I took in High School - one of the few, in fact, where I can say that I still clearly reap the benefits of it every day! --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
I am not sure that is a good argument .. a simple 15-20 line program FIND will convert all to upper case and do a search that way. DSig David Tod Sigafoos SigsSolutions, Inc. Original Message Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case From: Jerry Banker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, March 10, 2008 10:03 am To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org If you ever want a scare then go through the programs in the Universe BP file. Some are upper case program lines with mixed case comments and prompts, the way I prefer it, some are all lower case, some are mixed case, and some are a mixture of all types. In the latter it appears that whomever was programming at the time picked their preferred case. So it appears not only we mere mortals have a problem deciding what standard to use. My problem with mixed case in a program is not necessarily a reading issue but a search issue. Let's take the example of the variable var, if you use all caps it is easy to find, search on VAR! . You can do the same thing if you have all lower case but then the programming doesn't stand out from the comments or the prompts. If you program in mixed (camel) case then you would have to start looking for VAR, VAr, VaR, Var, vAR, vAr, vaR, and var, I know that no one would use a three letter variable in this way but it is possible and this is just a three letter variable. You can see what happens if you use a longer variable or command or by throwing in numbers and special characters. It explodes exponentially. Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: Kevin King [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:36 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case I understand your point Brian. So what do we do with the situation where upper case is actually more readable to me and yet less readable to you? How do we rationalize such a dichotomy? --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Along with Robert I also took Typing (along with football, tennis, soccer) in High School and am glad I did. Eric -Original Message- From: Robert Houben [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:24 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case BTW, to the comment about straight guys not taking typing: I know that they didn't usually, but when I was in high school back in the plasticine epoch (right after the Pleistocene epoch), a bunch of my friends and I took typing because we thought it would be an easy course (and there were girls in it!) Given my career, it was one of the most useful courses I took in High School - one of the few, in fact, where I can say that I still clearly reap the benefits of it every day! --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Also most modern editors allow a case insensitive search - wintegrate editor and unidebugger do at least ! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 10 March 2008 18:48 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case I am not sure that is a good argument .. a simple 15-20 line program FIND will convert all to upper case and do a search that way. DSig David Tod Sigafoos SigsSolutions, Inc. Original Message Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case From: Jerry Banker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, March 10, 2008 10:03 am To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org If you ever want a scare then go through the programs in the Universe BP file. Some are upper case program lines with mixed case comments and prompts, the way I prefer it, some are all lower case, some are mixed case, and some are a mixture of all types. In the latter it appears that whomever was programming at the time picked their preferred case. So it appears not only we mere mortals have a problem deciding what standard to use. My problem with mixed case in a program is not necessarily a reading issue but a search issue. Let's take the example of the variable var, if you use all caps it is easy to find, search on VAR! . You can do the same thing if you have all lower case but then the programming doesn't stand out from the comments or the prompts. If you program in mixed (camel) case then you would have to start looking for VAR, VAr, VaR, Var, vAR, vAr, vaR, and var, I know that no one would use a three letter variable in this way but it is possible and this is just a three letter variable. You can see what happens if you use a longer variable or command or by throwing in numbers and special characters. It explodes exponentially. Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: Kevin King [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:36 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case I understand your point Brian. So what do we do with the situation where upper case is actually more readable to me and yet less readable to you? How do we rationalize such a dichotomy? --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
I was not trying to offend anyone with that remark but back in the day typing was something that girls took and boys took shop. It was a fact not an accusation. Although I think it would have been a great asset for me today at the time it was hard enough trying to get through all of the social pressures without creating an additional one of my own making. Social norms change and today both genders do and should learn how to type because most of the kids will go into office jobs. Back then most men were likely to end up tightening a nut and bolt. Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: Eric Armstrong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 3:15 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Along with Robert I also took Typing (along with football, tennis, soccer) in High School and am glad I did. Eric -Original Message- From: Robert Houben [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:24 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case BTW, to the comment about straight guys not taking typing: I know that they didn't usually, but when I was in high school back in the plasticine epoch (right after the Pleistocene epoch), a bunch of my friends and I took typing because we thought it would be an easy course (and there were girls in it!) Given my career, it was one of the most useful courses I took in High School - one of the few, in fact, where I can say that I still clearly reap the benefits of it every day! --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Jerry, no offence taken here - I was in an all-girls college-prep high school, and the nuns refused to offer typing to the honors-track girls on the theory that we were not headed for secretarial jobs. My mother, bright woman that she was, decided that I would need to be able to type my college term papers, and made me take typing in summer school at the local public high school. I have been grateful ever since I first sat down to punch a deck of Hollerith cards! So it was not just a gender-based bias, even back then! Of course, we did not take Shop class either, so I had to learn to use tools by helping my Dad with chores. ;-) Susan Lynch FW Davison Company - Original Message - From: Jerry Banker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 4:58 PM Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case I was not trying to offend anyone with that remark but back in the day typing was something that girls took and boys took shop. It was a fact not an accusation. Although I think it would have been a great asset for me today at the time it was hard enough trying to get through all of the social pressures without creating an additional one of my own making. Social norms change and today both genders do and should learn how to type because most of the kids will go into office jobs. Back then most men were likely to end up tightening a nut and bolt. Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: Eric Armstrong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 3:15 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Along with Robert I also took Typing (along with football, tennis, soccer) in High School and am glad I did. Eric -Original Message- From: Robert Houben [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:24 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case BTW, to the comment about straight guys not taking typing: I know that they didn't usually, but when I was in high school back in the plasticine epoch (right after the Pleistocene epoch), a bunch of my friends and I took typing because we thought it would be an easy course (and there were girls in it!) Given my career, it was one of the most useful courses I took in High School - one of the few, in fact, where I can say that I still clearly reap the benefits of it every day! --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Typing and speed reading. Really came in handy too. BTW, to the comment about straight guys not taking typing: Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
No offence taken. I got your point. I was just pointing out that some boys saw benefits courses like typing! :) I think we took it for reasons that were a bit unusual, but it sure worked out in the long run! BTW, my sister was the first girl to break into shop along with a friend of hers at our high school. We really broke the mold... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Banker Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 1:59 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case I was not trying to offend anyone with that remark but back in the day typing was something that girls took and boys took shop. It was a fact not an accusation. Although I think it would have been a great asset for me today at the time it was hard enough trying to get through all of the social pressures without creating an additional one of my own making. Social norms change and today both genders do and should learn how to type because most of the kids will go into office jobs. Back then most men were likely to end up tightening a nut and bolt. Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: Eric Armstrong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 3:15 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Along with Robert I also took Typing (along with football, tennis, soccer) in High School and am glad I did. Eric -Original Message- From: Robert Houben [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:24 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case BTW, to the comment about straight guys not taking typing: I know that they didn't usually, but when I was in high school back in the plasticine epoch (right after the Pleistocene epoch), a bunch of my friends and I took typing because we thought it would be an easy course (and there were girls in it!) Given my career, it was one of the most useful courses I took in High School - one of the few, in fact, where I can say that I still clearly reap the benefits of it every day! --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Do they even teach typing in school these day? My 15 year old daughter (who has had access to a computer since she was 2) is a fast 2 figure typist. I keep trying to get her to learn touch typing like I was taught in high school and college to no avail! She doesn't see the need for it! -Original Message- From: Susan Lynch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 4:46 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case SNIP the local public high school SNIP --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Brenda: Did you ever see the Jay Leno skit with two green-eyeshade gentlemen sending each other a message via morse-code verses two of the best college text messagers? Green-eyeshaders won hands down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhsSgcsTMd4 Sometimes old is good! :-) Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brenda Price Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 2:15 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Do they even teach typing in school these day? My 15 year old daughter (who has had access to a computer since she was 2) is a fast 2 figure typist. I keep trying to get her to learn touch typing like I was taught in high school and college to no avail! She doesn't see the need for it! -Original Message- From: Susan Lynch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 4:46 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case SNIP the local public high school SNIP --- --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
You should have seen what happened when my daughter decided to take Auto Shop. The instructors blood pressure must have nearly doubled when he found out he had a girl in his class. And that was just 8 years ago. Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: Robert Houben [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 4:54 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case No offence taken. I got your point. I was just pointing out that some boys saw benefits courses like typing! :) I think we took it for reasons that were a bit unusual, but it sure worked out in the long run! BTW, my sister was the first girl to break into shop along with a friend of hers at our high school. We really broke the mold... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Banker Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 1:59 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case I was not trying to offend anyone with that remark but back in the day typing was something that girls took and boys took shop. It was a fact not an accusation. Although I think it would have been a great asset for me today at the time it was hard enough trying to get through all of the social pressures without creating an additional one of my own making. Social norms change and today both genders do and should learn how to type because most of the kids will go into office jobs. Back then most men were likely to end up tightening a nut and bolt. Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: Eric Armstrong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 3:15 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Along with Robert I also took Typing (along with football, tennis, soccer) in High School and am glad I did. Eric -Original Message- From: Robert Houben [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:24 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case BTW, to the comment about straight guys not taking typing: I know that they didn't usually, but when I was in high school back in the plasticine epoch (right after the Pleistocene epoch), a bunch of my friends and I took typing because we thought it would be an easy course (and there were girls in it!) Given my career, it was one of the most useful courses I took in High School - one of the few, in fact, where I can say that I still clearly reap the benefits of it every day! --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Back in MY day, boys took shop in Jr. High (and girls took Home Ec). By the time I was in high school, the only boys in shop classes were the Vocational Ed students. Typing was recommended for college prep students of both genders, in order to become proficient at typing term papers. - Original Message - From: Jerry Banker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 4:58 PM Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case I was not trying to offend anyone with that remark but back in the day typing was something that girls took and boys took shop. It was a fact not an accusation. Although I think it would have been a great asset for me today at the time it was hard enough trying to get through all of the social pressures without creating an additional one of my own making. Social norms change and today both genders do and should learn how to type because most of the kids will go into office jobs. Back then most men were likely to end up tightening a nut and bolt. Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: Eric Armstrong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 3:15 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Along with Robert I also took Typing (along with football, tennis, soccer) in High School and am glad I did. Eric -Original Message- From: Robert Houben [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:24 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case BTW, to the comment about straight guys not taking typing: I know that they didn't usually, but when I was in high school back in the plasticine epoch (right after the Pleistocene epoch), a bunch of my friends and I took typing because we thought it would be an easy course (and there were girls in it!) Given my career, it was one of the most useful courses I took in High School - one of the few, in fact, where I can say that I still clearly reap the benefits of it every day! --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
They teach the 21st century equivalent -- keyboarding. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brenda Price Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 3:15 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Do they even teach typing in school these day? My 15 year old daughter (who has had access to a computer since she was 2) is a fast 2 figure typist. I keep trying to get her to learn touch typing like I was taught in high school and college to no avail! She doesn't see the need for it! -Original Message- From: Susan Lynch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 4:46 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case SNIP the local public high school SNIP --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Kevin: Sorry if I offended in any way; that was not my intention. I learned to type in high school. Typing got me a cushy job in the military. It got me extra money through college. When one learns to type two characteristics stand out; hands rest on the keyboard and eyes are generally looking elsewhere. Given this, it's understandable how two finger typing creates a certain point of view. That was my point, which I so ineloquently made. Two finger typing doesn't create the same operating environment learned typing does (noted above). The environment of both realities are much different; hence I have no frame of reference of watching each keystroke I type (it is often when I press the [Enter] key and I hear some sound that alerts me to the wrong case). Hence, my comments were made from the reality of a typist. As for your challenge, I'd be happy to take you up on it where we pit one who types against one who doesn't to see who can type a printed document the fastest. There's a lot of literature regarding the vast improvement in efficiency of learned typists over those who can't type. That's a pretty unfair challenge. However, if your challenge is that you're a more effective programmer than me I'll have to concede (as I would to most on this list); I had to work too hard to get through college and have a very difficult time working in an OOP development environment. :-) So, I'll agree to concede that for two finger typists, the status of the [Caps Lock] is mostly irrelevant? While you can concede that for those who can type, and don't look at what they're typing too often, [Caps Lock] on can present a problem. Agreed? Bill _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 6:12 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Bill, I followed you until this: * Upper case is an anachronism and should be treated as such rather than defended. It is unwieldy for far too many and, in fact, interferes with efficient typing at every turn. Forcing people to use [Caps Lock] in U2 while all other used applications require [Caps Lock] to be off is a egalitarian ruse for autocracy. :-) * While I understand this is intended to be slightly tongue-in-cheek, saying that it unequivocally interferes with efficient typing at every turn is quite possibly much more generalized of a statement than the discussion warrants. While I agree with your assessment about the mix of applications that we are using at any given moment which are using the caps lock in the off position, I find this to be a non-issue and rarely miss more than a couple of characters when switching between apps. For me personally, a couple of caps mistakes a week beats the thousands of times pressing the Shift key where I - notably a two-finger typist - have to get both hands involved. But rather than rely upon conjecture, why not actually test this theory? Let's setup a meeting at Spectrum where we each create a simple sample program using our case of choice, and we'll appoint an official timer to see which method produces the fastest results. Game? -K --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
In our school, seniors had a mandatory half year drivers ed followed by a mandatory half year of typing. I've been thankful for that ever since :) That's all history now; budget cuts eliminated driver's ed a long time ago, and typing is now back to a secretarial thing. Ron - Original Message - From: Jerry Banker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 4:58 PM Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case I was not trying to offend anyone with that remark but back in the day typing was something that girls took and boys took shop. It was a fact not an accusation. Although I think it would have been a great asset for me today at the time it was hard enough trying to get through all of the social pressures without creating an additional one of my own making. Social norms change and today both genders do and should learn how to type because most of the kids will go into office jobs. Back then most men were likely to end up tightening a nut and bolt. Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: Eric Armstrong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 3:15 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Along with Robert I also took Typing (along with football, tennis, soccer) in High School and am glad I did. Eric -Original Message- From: Robert Houben [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:24 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case BTW, to the comment about straight guys not taking typing: I know that they didn't usually, but when I was in high school back in the plasticine epoch (right after the Pleistocene epoch), a bunch of my friends and I took typing because we thought it would be an easy course (and there were girls in it!) Given my career, it was one of the most useful courses I took in High School - one of the few, in fact, where I can say that I still clearly reap the benefits of it every day! --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kevin King [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes And one last point to really fire up some folks: To those who think mixed case is more readable, I offer this: It's syntax, not literature. While we should do everything we can to make the code as human readable as possible, greater readability gains are available through structural protocol than changing READU to ReadU. To put so much energy in all these extra keystrokes and then to create a 3000 line routine with 1200 GOTOs (oops, I meant GoTo's) is ... in my opinion... a lot of effort with minimal - if any - ROI. I've probably posted about this before, but it's not syntax or literature, it's familiarity. I came across some studies about learning and dyslexia ages ago, and it gave me some interesting insights into how we learn to read. A learner will read letter by letter. An experienced reader will read symbol (word) by symbol. And the symbols THE, The and the are NOT the same. That's why all caps brings emphasis. That's why all caps is normally harder to read. It *breaks* the easy flow of lower-case symbols with which we are all familiar. That's why I'm happy coding VB in CamelCase, C in lower case, and DATABASIC in UPPER CASE. I'm familiar with those conventions for those languages, and would actually find it quite hard to switch. The code I'm working on at the moment actually gives a very good insight into that :-) My predecessor seems to have worked pretty much entirely in upper case. So I find it easy to read the code, but harder to read the comments! You can tell my comments from his easily - mine are in normal case :-) Cheers, Wol -- Anthony W. Youngman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'Yings, yow graley yin! Suz ae rikt dheu,' said the blue man, taking the thimble. 'What *is* he?' said Magrat. 'They're gnomes,' said Nanny. The man lowered the thimble. 'Pictsies!' Carpe Jugulum, Terry Pratchett 1998 Visit the MaVerick web-site - http://www.maverick-dbms.org Open Source Pick --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Kevin: I'm sorry to say, on this rare occasion I disagree with your assessment. First, anyone who learned to type has no problem with the [Shift] key being used. In fact, those who've learned to type often type words instead of letters so there is nothing efficient in saving the [Shift] keystroke; to be honest, it's usually a problem not to include the key as part of the overall typing framework. I often laugh when I see C code because I know it was designed by geeks who couldn't type and are, ultimately, two finger peckers. :-) To those who say they don't have time to learn how to type I say they have an obligation to learn to use the tools of their trade. Do accountants not know how to use a 10-Key? Do doctors not know how to use a stethoscope? Do carpenters not know how to use a plane? Of course they know how to use them! With that said, let's look at some of the major aggravations of this case issue. Most of us, not all but most, have multiple windows open when we work. We may have a web browser open, or an email client, a word processor, a spreadsheet, or other applications. All of these applications, and I mean all of them, expect [Caps Lock] to be off (in fact, so does Unix)! When we move our focus to a U2 window we have to turn that darned function back on. When we go back to one of the other applications we end up typing cAPS lOCK all the time. This is so true that even when we watch demonstrations, where U2 is in the mix, we see the demonstrator having the same problem over, and over, and over (like switching back to U2 from another window to enter a TCL command, then backspacing over the typed in command to change it to upper case). For those who spend the majority of their time in the U2 environment, [Caps Lock] is probably set to on. However, for most of the rest of us it's a colossal aggravation, over, and over, and over. U2 (UV much more than UD) has come up with some partial solutions to this casing issue (because they recognize the error of their ways but it's too much trouble to fix it). UD is tough at ECL because case makes a big difference in an ECL verb. Having an ECL shell processor that can upper-case all commands doesn't quite work in UD when one wants to use a lower case ECL verb. With case sensitivity, it's clear there is a difference between the variable CUSTOMER.REC and Customer.Rec. I'm not at all convinced those who've thought this through really would create one variable CUSTOMER.REC and another variable Customer.Rec. Yet, again, upper-casing forces everyone to work around its serious limitations. The only place where I've found case to be important, other than in MV, is in command line options in Unix (here we run into those two finger geeks again). :-) Upper case is an anachronism and should be treated as such rather than defended. It is unwieldy for far too many and, in fact, interferes with efficient typing at every turn. Forcing people to use [Caps Lock] in U2 while all other used applications require [Caps Lock] to be off is a egalitarian ruse for autocracy. :-) This is, of course, IMHO... Bill _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 9:39 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case I am admittedly a dinosaur of the upper-case bent with U2. Before I put on my flame suit, hear me out.. We developers type thousands - possibly even millions - of characters of code per year To press the letter R with caps lock on or off is only one keypress - keeping in mind the state of the cApS LocK. To type READU then is only 5. ReadU however, is 7 - an increase of 40%. Now, assuming that a typical program is 4000 characters, there's a potential of an additional 1000+ shift keypresses just to maintain case. Meaningless, you say? Everything we do takes an investment of time, and even a fraction of a second can turn into a significant investment when multiplied times millions of occurrences. In Java, PHP, etc., mixed case code has been the norm from the beginning. People don't think about writing these languages in upper case because they were never designed to be written that way. BASIC, however has its roots in upper case, and - here's my big point - not being forced into mixed case provides a significant opportunity to produce more code in less time simply because of the reduced number of keystrokes. Also on the topic of productivity, a variable named ITEM.CUSTOMER has one presentation, no variants. Mixing case on this variable produces a number of variants which may be easily mistyped thus potentially increasing debugging time. I will admit, because I don't use mixed case I don't know if there's a compiler option that will allow ITEM.CUSTOMER and ItEm.CuStoMerto be the same variable, but even if such a thing exists, isn't that just adding confusion to whomever has to compile this thing six
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Dennis I have no idea why your code should not compile ... I always use plenty of whitespace and, yes, for the past 15+ years I've been using mixed case. For good reasons - once you get used to ie (and that *IS* the caveat) it's much quicker to scan. That's why all modern languages use it. Of course, people who haven't taken time to get used to it, or don't use the huge number of client or web languages that use mixed case, don't see the benefit. If you're coming from an upper case only environment, you need time to train your brain to read it. Mixed casing has been on UniVerse since the year dot whereas UniData has only just emerged from the stone age on this one. Personally, since I spend much of my time in C#, Delphi, VB, PHP. mvScript etc. I much prefer to read: Fin = @False Loop ReadNext CustId Else Fin = @True Until Fin Do ReadU CustomerRec From CUSTOMER.F, CustId Then GoSub CalculateOrderTotal End Else Release CUSTOMER.F, CustId End Repeat RETURN Than: FIN = 0 LOOP READNEXT CUSTID ELSE FIN = 0 UNTIL FIN DO READU CUSTOMERREC FROM CUSTOMER.F, CUSTID THEN GOSUB 1000 END ELSE RELEASE CUSTOMER.F,CUSTID END REPEAT RETURN As I say, it's partly what you're used to and what you're prepared to learn. But there is another important argument: what the rest of the world is used to. Every other language in popular use today uses mixed case. Part of what I try to do - through the U2UG, training, articles etc - is to present U2 as a modern business platform. Anything that *looks* old, however effective, makes that more difficult and it is in all our interests to keep pushing that message. Now, I'm not suggesting that you convert any old code to mixed case, or that you start to insert mixed case into existing code. But for new ventures, it makes sense to work with what has been frequently proven to be best. I know we like to live in a technology bubble, but there are things we can learn from the rest of the industry. Regards Brian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Bartlett Sent: 08 March 2008 10:18 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case How come my code won't compile if there are blank lines in it? And yet when I find source on the net it has blank lines in it? and while we're at it, what is the case for / against using lower or upper case code, and what do I need to set to allow this to happen? Thanks --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
Just a reminder for UniData users using mixed case, you may need to consider compiling with the -I flag (Case Insensitive Keywords allowed) We were getting some syntax errors on programs that were using SB+ SQL commands, until we started compiling with this flag. (Ironically the flag is in upper case :-) ) You may want to read up on this flag. In reference to code not compiling, did you try reformatting your source code, before compiling? (Using the AE editor, 'FORMAT' command) This usually converts control characters to spaces. We had an issue years ago, that core dumped on an old RS/6000 every time we compiled a program that contained tabs in the source. UniData may have corrected this 'feature', though. Hope that helps. -Phil- -Original Message- From: Brian Leach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 7:07 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case Dennis I have no idea why your code should not compile ... I always use plenty of whitespace and, yes, for the past 15+ years I've been using mixed case. For good reasons - once you get used to ie (and that *IS* the caveat) it's much quicker to scan. That's why all modern languages use it. Of course, people who haven't taken time to get used to it, or don't use the huge number of client or web languages that use mixed case, don't see the benefit. If you're coming from an upper case only environment, you need time to train your brain to read it. Mixed casing has been on UniVerse since the year dot whereas UniData has only just emerged from the stone age on this one. Personally, since I spend much of my time in C#, Delphi, VB, PHP. mvScript etc. I much prefer to read: Fin = @False Loop ReadNext CustId Else Fin = @True Until Fin Do ReadU CustomerRec From CUSTOMER.F, CustId Then GoSub CalculateOrderTotal End Else Release CUSTOMER.F, CustId End Repeat RETURN Than: FIN = 0 LOOP READNEXT CUSTID ELSE FIN = 0 UNTIL FIN DO READU CUSTOMERREC FROM CUSTOMER.F, CUSTID THEN GOSUB 1000 END ELSE RELEASE CUSTOMER.F,CUSTID END REPEAT RETURN As I say, it's partly what you're used to and what you're prepared to learn. But there is another important argument: what the rest of the world is used to. Every other language in popular use today uses mixed case. Part of what I try to do - through the U2UG, training, articles etc - is to present U2 as a modern business platform. Anything that *looks* old, however effective, makes that more difficult and it is in all our interests to keep pushing that message. Now, I'm not suggesting that you convert any old code to mixed case, or that you start to insert mixed case into existing code. But for new ventures, it makes sense to work with what has been frequently proven to be best. I know we like to live in a technology bubble, but there are things we can learn from the rest of the industry. Regards Brian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Bartlett Sent: 08 March 2008 10:18 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case How come my code won't compile if there are blank lines in it? And yet when I find source on the net it has blank lines in it? and while we're at it, what is the case for / against using lower or upper case code, and what do I need to set to allow this to happen? Thanks --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
I am admittedly a dinosaur of the upper-case bent with U2. Before I put on my flame suit, hear me out.. We developers type thousands - possibly even millions - of characters of code per year To press the letter R with caps lock on or off is only one keypress - keeping in mind the state of the cApS LocK. To type READU then is only 5. ReadU however, is 7 - an increase of 40%. Now, assuming that a typical program is 4000 characters, there's a potential of an additional 1000+ shift keypresses just to maintain case. Meaningless, you say? Everything we do takes an investment of time, and even a fraction of a second can turn into a significant investment when multiplied times millions of occurrences. In Java, PHP, etc., mixed case code has been the norm from the beginning. People don't think about writing these languages in upper case because they were never designed to be written that way. BASIC, however has its roots in upper case, and - here's my big point - not being forced into mixed case provides a significant opportunity to produce more code in less time simply because of the reduced number of keystrokes. Also on the topic of productivity, a variable named ITEM.CUSTOMER has one presentation, no variants. Mixing case on this variable produces a number of variants which may be easily mistyped thus potentially increasing debugging time. I will admit, because I don't use mixed case I don't know if there's a compiler option that will allow ITEM.CUSTOMER and ItEm.CuStoMerto be the same variable, but even if such a thing exists, isn't that just adding confusion to whomever has to compile this thing six months from now? Those who have gone through my training have likely heard my rule about there's a time and place for everything, and it's not always and it's not never. Anyone who always writes in mixed case regardless of the language or environment, or anyone who never writes in mixed case for the same reason may very well be missing productivity gains, regardless of how distasteful the caps lock key might be to them personally. Yes, I do use mixed case - in user prompts - because the audience (i.e. users) interprets meaning in the case of a message. And one last point to really fire up some folks: To those who think mixed case is more readable, I offer this: It's syntax, not literature. While we should do everything we can to make the code as human readable as possible, greater readability gains are available through structural protocol than changing READU to ReadU. To put so much energy in all these extra keystrokes and then to create a 3000 line routine with 1200 GOTOs (oops, I meant GoTo's) is ... in my opinion... a lot of effort with minimal - if any - ROI. So, without turning this into a holy war, why do you prefer mixed case? -K --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case
I donbt think anyone wants to make basic statements mixed case (do they) Mixed case for me is for the variables so I get rid of dots and would have, using your example, itemCustomer itemBlah etc so readu itemCustomer from cusFil ... for instance. Mixed case is basically lower case with the occasional upper case character to split/enhance a certain variable. Not just randomly mixed case ! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: 08 March 2008 17:39 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] blank lines in code / mixed case I am admittedly a dinosaur of the upper-case bent with U2. Before I put on my flame suit, hear me out.. We developers type thousands - possibly even millions - of characters of code per year To press the letter R with caps lock on or off is only one keypress - keeping in mind the state of the cApS LocK. To type READU then is only 5. ReadU however, is 7 - an increase of 40%. Now, assuming that a typical program is 4000 characters, there's a potential of an additional 1000+ shift keypresses just to maintain case. Meaningless, you say? Everything we do takes an investment of time, and even a fraction of a second can turn into a significant investment when multiplied times millions of occurrences. In Java, PHP, etc., mixed case code has been the norm from the beginning. People don't think about writing these languages in upper case because they were never designed to be written that way. BASIC, however has its roots in upper case, and - here's my big point - not being forced into mixed case provides a significant opportunity to produce more code in less time simply because of the reduced number of keystrokes. Also on the topic of productivity, a variable named ITEM.CUSTOMER has one presentation, no variants. Mixing case on this variable produces a number of variants which may be easily mistyped thus potentially increasing debugging time. I will admit, because I don't use mixed case I don't know if there's a compiler option that will allow ITEM.CUSTOMER and ItEm.CuStoMerto be the same variable, but even if such a thing exists, isn't that just adding confusion to whomever has to compile this thing six months from now? Those who have gone through my training have likely heard my rule about there's a time and place for everything, and it's not always and it's not never. Anyone who always writes in mixed case regardless of the language or environment, or anyone who never writes in mixed case for the same reason may very well be missing productivity gains, regardless of how distasteful the caps lock key might be to them personally. Yes, I do use mixed case - in user prompts - because the audience (i.e. users) interprets meaning in the case of a message. And one last point to really fire up some folks: To those who think mixed case is more readable, I offer this: It's syntax, not literature. While we should do everything we can to make the code as human readable as possible, greater readability gains are available through structural protocol than changing READU to ReadU. To put so much energy in all these extra keystrokes and then to create a 3000 line routine with 1200 GOTOs (oops, I meant GoTo's) is ... in my opinion... a lot of effort with minimal - if any - ROI. So, without turning this into a holy war, why do you prefer mixed case? -K --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
