Re: [U2] ouch
I believe Accuterm's WED (Windows EDitor) keeps an archive on the PC for unplanned disconnections. There may be a toggle to make it more useful. My 1 cent Mark Johnson - Original Message - From: Doug Chanco [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 7:56 AM Subject: RE: [U2] ouch One thing to note as well, subversion (version control) is free and it only took me a few days to write wrappers to the SVN commands in pick (and get them to work the way I wanted). So far it's working out pretty well! Dougc -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Symeon Breen Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 8:27 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] ouch Worth noting if you use wintegrate editor, or unidebugger editor (probably others as well) they keep a copy of the last edit on your PC's disk for you as well. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roger Glenfield Sent: 10 July 2008 12:24 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] ouch Great answer to prevent future problems, such as I didn't really want to do that. thanks for reminding me about some really old options. ;) Roger Louie Bergsagel wrote: A former co-worker of mine had a nifty paragraph he wrote which would edit, compile, catalog and run a program in one fell swoop. Because I detest wasting time with repetitive tasks, I've written a similar program which also copies the current version of a program to a backup file in case I trash it, or want to revert to a previous version. EDBP [program.name] does the following: 1. Copies [program.name] to a backup directory (e.g. LOUIEB.BP) with a name of program.name:_:date():_:time():_.bak 2. Executes ED LOUIEB.BP program.name 3. Executes BASIC and CATALOG commands unless I say no to a prompt. 4. Executes the cataloged command unless I say no to a prompt. This is the poor dude's version control program. -- Louie In Seattle --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1543 - Release Date: 7/9/2008 6:32 PM --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by SecureMail, and is believed to be clean. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] ouch
Mark. That's a very powerful condemnation of 'clunky' backup practices. However, you've not gone far enough imo - simply keeping a copy of every (significant?) version of a program isn't taking advantage of modern solutions to the change control problem. As a poster suggested earlier on today, making use of a version control system such as the free and excellent Subversion allows you to keep hundreds of backups of your source code but rather than being a backup of one program, the whole project is snapshotted, each snapshot giving you all your code at that specific point in time. The storage requirements for all of this sounds horrendous but in fact is very modest, as files are stored on an incremental basis. Used properly, subversion can make administering AND developing software a much less stressful task - the basic principle of doing a change on a branch and then only merging it into the trunk when it's ready (and tested!) means changes are isolated from the main body of code until they're complete and changes can be identified, checked, undone etc all after the event. No need to use comments all through your source code to show each little change! Developers on Windows machines have access to TortoiseSVN, also free - it's an explorer shell module that allows subversion administration directly from the windows explorer without having to resort to the command line. Edward -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MAJ Programming Sent: 11 July 2008 16:42 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] ouch Louie: Good Technique. I published a similar technique in Spectrum called DCOPY a few years ago. This replaces the pathetic methods that so many undisciplined programmers use where they simply copy the program to the same BP file with a very stupid .BAK or .OLD or other unmanaged suffix. Having the archive in the same file causes FIND or SEARCH programs to constantly include them when not useful. Other similarily pathetic methods are to take the program and, instead of changing the archive name, they change the runtime name to NAME.NEW or NAME.NEW2 etc, etc. This is worse than the suffixed version as trying to FIND the unchanged versions, say NAME, would falsely also find NAME.NEW. This method is also poor as you now must visit all the places NAME is referred from and change to NAME.NEW. I've inherited dozens of systems with these poor techniques. It's very hard and time consuming to systematically determine which programs are on-line and which are the backups. One client had over 15 versions of the same program with varying suffixes. The remaining on-line version was PRINT.ORDERS.NEW3 despite there being a NEW4 and NEW5 version as well. Finally, the backup versions should never be compiled. This prevents an errant programmer from compiling everything. My DCOPY iuncludes a line of text indicating why I made the archive. That line is stored on line 2 of the program (line 1 stays as SUBROUTINE for other analysis) like a comment with no asterisk. Thus, it would not compile at all. My 2 cents, Mark Johnson - Original Message - From: Louie Bergsagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [U2] ouch A former co-worker of mine had a nifty paragraph he wrote which would edit, compile, catalog and run a program in one fell swoop. Because I detest wasting time with repetitive tasks, I've written a similar program which also copies the current version of a program to a backup file in case I trash it, or want to revert to a previous version. EDBP [program.name] does the following: 1. Copies [program.name] to a backup directory (e.g. LOUIEB.BP) with a name of program.name:_:date():_:time():_.bak 2. Executes ED LOUIEB.BP program.name 3. Executes BASIC and CATALOG commands unless I say no to a prompt. 4. Executes the cataloged command unless I say no to a prompt. This is the poor dude's version control program. -- Louie In Seattle --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- Please remember to recycle wherever possible. Reduce, reuse, recycle, think do you need to print this e-mail? --- This e-mail and any attachment(s), is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the addressee, dissemination, copying or use of this e-mail or any of its content is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient please inform the sender immediately and destroy the e-mail, any attachment(s) and any copies. All liability
RE: [U2] ouch
We did some integration with VSS to manage source control. It worked pretty
well, simple and effective.
CHECK.OUT {LIB} {PGM} {comments}
CHECK.IN {LIB} {PGM}
UNCHECK {LIB} {PGM} {comments}
VSS.STATUS {LIB} {PGM}
INSTALL {LIB} {PGM}
Only worked for source control because it read-locked the source, but it did
provide for up to two simultaneous check outs via three directory structures
development/stage/production.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Brown
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 11:40 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] ouch
Mark.
That's a very powerful condemnation of 'clunky' backup practices.
However, you've not gone far enough imo - simply keeping a copy of every
(significant?) version of a program isn't taking advantage of modern
solutions to the change control problem.
As a poster suggested earlier on today, making use of a version control
system such as the free and excellent Subversion allows you to keep hundreds
of backups of your source code but rather than being a backup of one
program, the whole project is snapshotted, each snapshot giving you all your
code at that specific point in time. The storage requirements for all of
this sounds horrendous but in fact is very modest, as files are stored on an
incremental basis.
Used properly, subversion can make administering AND developing software a
much less stressful task - the basic principle of doing a change on a branch
and then only merging it into the trunk when it's ready (and
tested!) means changes are isolated from the main body of code until they're
complete and changes can be identified, checked, undone etc all after the
event. No need to use comments all through your source code to show each
little change!
Developers on Windows machines have access to TortoiseSVN, also free - it's
an explorer shell module that allows subversion administration directly from
the windows explorer without having to resort to the command line.
Edward
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MAJ Programming
Sent: 11 July 2008 16:42
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] ouch
Louie:
Good Technique. I published a similar technique in Spectrum called DCOPY a
few years ago.
This replaces the pathetic methods that so many undisciplined programmers
use where they simply copy the program to the same BP file with a very
stupid .BAK or .OLD or other unmanaged suffix. Having the archive in the
same file causes FIND or SEARCH programs to constantly include them when not
useful.
Other similarily pathetic methods are to take the program and, instead of
changing the archive name, they change the runtime name to NAME.NEW or
NAME.NEW2 etc, etc. This is worse than the suffixed version as trying to
FIND the unchanged versions, say NAME, would falsely also find NAME.NEW.
This method is also poor as you now must visit all the places NAME is
referred from and change to NAME.NEW.
I've inherited dozens of systems with these poor techniques. It's very hard
and time consuming to systematically determine which programs are on-line
and which are the backups. One client had over 15 versions of the same
program with varying suffixes. The remaining on-line version was
PRINT.ORDERS.NEW3 despite there being a NEW4 and NEW5 version as well.
Finally, the backup versions should never be compiled. This prevents an
errant programmer from compiling everything. My DCOPY iuncludes a line of
text indicating why I made the archive. That line is stored on line 2 of the
program (line 1 stays as SUBROUTINE for other analysis) like a comment with
no asterisk. Thus, it would not compile at all.
My 2 cents,
Mark Johnson
- Original Message -
From: Louie Bergsagel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [U2] ouch
A former co-worker of mine had a nifty paragraph he wrote which would
edit,
compile, catalog and run a program in one fell swoop.
Because I detest wasting time with repetitive tasks, I've written a
similar
program which also copies the current version of a program to a backup
file
in case I trash it, or want to revert to a previous version.
EDBP [program.name] does the following:
1. Copies [program.name] to a backup directory (e.g. LOUIEB.BP) with a
name
of program.name:_:date():_:time():_.bak
2. Executes ED LOUIEB.BP program.name
3. Executes BASIC and CATALOG commands unless I say no to a prompt. 4.
Executes the cataloged command unless I say no to a prompt.
This is the poor dude's version control program.
-- Louie In Seattle
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RE: [U2] ouch
Hi Mark, M2K = Manage-2000 SO.ENTRY has been constantly modified due to customer demands since 1978 and has more options than can be dreamt of. As you can imagine, over the period of the last 30 years there have been literally hundreds of people come in, program a new option and leave their mark on this enormous program. The m2k system actually now has 680+ MENUS ! Many of the subroutines are that long. What's going on? Creeping Feature-itis ! The subroutines are arranged by functionality and some of those functions are just huge, like multiple ship-to customers and multiple scheduled shipments per line item. Allen -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of MAJ Programming Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 08:53 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] ouch Regarding these numbers being thrown around, aka Mine is Bigger: I can see a Sales Order entry program growing to 34 subs. I wonder what's going on in a 2000 to 3000 line sub though. I can see 100 other subs. But does your 400 to 500 people mean the users offering their slight input, the managers offering their major input or do you mean 400 to 500 programmers? Considering how many of us there actually are (or could be), I might have been one of them although I don't recall. Also, What's a M2K program? Just curious. Mark Johnson - Original Message - From: Allen E. Elwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 11:26 AM Subject: RE: [U2] ouch a) oh well b) Oh, I've been programming since 1974, professionally since 1978, I've only been using paper for 25 years... :) Heck, I dream about code - talk about visualizingbut you should see some of the M2K programs. SO.ENTRY is up to about 34 main subroutines many of which are 2000 to 3000 lines, 100 associated subroutines and it's been modified by 400 to 500 people. And the darn thing not only works, but works great! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Roger Glenfield Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 04:18 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] ouch a) Universe b) whippersnapper (32 years still in black and white) my main concerns are the programmers that can't visualize impacts on the whole 'code'. and are constantly recompiling after correcting 5-10 lines of code. Of course, back in the Early Dawn of Pick, compiling 500 lines of code would take 20-30 minutes plus drag down the other 16 programmers on the system. There was a least one programmer 're-educated' for abusing the system. Of course, some of the 5,000 line programs that I've seen recently were because somebody didn't think. Roger Allen E. Elwood wrote: You didn't say unidata or universe... This guy has a unidata decompiler, not sure how fast they are http://www.infocus50.com/products/xtrico.html btw, at 52 I haven't been using paper for 25 years :-) hth, Allen E. Elwood www.tortillafc.com Quality Code Since 1978 --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] ouch
a) Universe b) whippersnapper (32 years still in black and white) my main concerns are the programmers that can't visualize impacts on the whole 'code'. and are constantly recompiling after correcting 5-10 lines of code. Of course, back in the Early Dawn of Pick, compiling 500 lines of code would take 20-30 minutes plus drag down the other 16 programmers on the system. There was a least one programmer 're-educated' for abusing the system. Of course, some of the 5,000 line programs that I've seen recently were because somebody didn't think. Roger Allen E. Elwood wrote: You didn't say unidata or universe... This guy has a unidata decompiler, not sure how fast they are http://www.infocus50.com/products/xtrico.html btw, at 52 I haven't been using paper for 25 years :-) hth, Allen E. Elwood www.tortillafc.com Quality Code Since 1978 --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] ouch
Great answer to prevent future problems, such as I didn't really want to do that. thanks for reminding me about some really old options. ;) Roger Louie Bergsagel wrote: A former co-worker of mine had a nifty paragraph he wrote which would edit, compile, catalog and run a program in one fell swoop. Because I detest wasting time with repetitive tasks, I've written a similar program which also copies the current version of a program to a backup file in case I trash it, or want to revert to a previous version. EDBP [program.name] does the following: 1. Copies [program.name] to a backup directory (e.g. LOUIEB.BP) with a name of program.name:_:date():_:time():_.bak 2. Executes ED LOUIEB.BP program.name 3. Executes BASIC and CATALOG commands unless I say no to a prompt. 4. Executes the cataloged command unless I say no to a prompt. This is the poor dude's version control program. -- Louie In Seattle --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] ouch
Worth noting if you use wintegrate editor, or unidebugger editor (probably others as well) they keep a copy of the last edit on your PC's disk for you as well. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roger Glenfield Sent: 10 July 2008 12:24 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] ouch Great answer to prevent future problems, such as I didn't really want to do that. thanks for reminding me about some really old options. ;) Roger Louie Bergsagel wrote: A former co-worker of mine had a nifty paragraph he wrote which would edit, compile, catalog and run a program in one fell swoop. Because I detest wasting time with repetitive tasks, I've written a similar program which also copies the current version of a program to a backup file in case I trash it, or want to revert to a previous version. EDBP [program.name] does the following: 1. Copies [program.name] to a backup directory (e.g. LOUIEB.BP) with a name of program.name:_:date():_:time():_.bak 2. Executes ED LOUIEB.BP program.name 3. Executes BASIC and CATALOG commands unless I say no to a prompt. 4. Executes the cataloged command unless I say no to a prompt. This is the poor dude's version control program. -- Louie In Seattle --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1543 - Release Date: 7/9/2008 6:32 PM --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] ouch
a) oh well b) Oh, I've been programming since 1974, professionally since 1978, I've only been using paper for 25 years... :) Heck, I dream about code - talk about visualizingbut you should see some of the M2K programs. SO.ENTRY is up to about 34 main subroutines many of which are 2000 to 3000 lines, 100 associated subroutines and it's been modified by 400 to 500 people. And the darn thing not only works, but works great! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Roger Glenfield Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 04:18 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] ouch a) Universe b) whippersnapper (32 years still in black and white) my main concerns are the programmers that can't visualize impacts on the whole 'code'. and are constantly recompiling after correcting 5-10 lines of code. Of course, back in the Early Dawn of Pick, compiling 500 lines of code would take 20-30 minutes plus drag down the other 16 programmers on the system. There was a least one programmer 're-educated' for abusing the system. Of course, some of the 5,000 line programs that I've seen recently were because somebody didn't think. Roger Allen E. Elwood wrote: You didn't say unidata or universe... This guy has a unidata decompiler, not sure how fast they are http://www.infocus50.com/products/xtrico.html btw, at 52 I haven't been using paper for 25 years :-) hth, Allen E. Elwood www.tortillafc.com Quality Code Since 1978 --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] ouch [AD]
Hi Roger, I have nothing to offer on rebuilding source from object, but PRC would have made sure you had backups and a traceable history of the changes. Automatically. If you are interested in taking a look at source control / version control that is complete, compliant life-cycle management built specifically for U2 - please feel free to contact me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards, Susan Joslyn SJ+ Systems Associates, Inc. PRC(r) Real software configuration management for U2! - -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 12:35 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] ouch We just had something chew up two source programs today. We have restored from yesterday, but that still means 4-5 lost hours. And the programmer is one of those young guys that works directly to/from the screen rather then pencil scribling like this old timer. He still has the latest version of object. Is there a quick/free way to look at his object code and remind him of the program structure? Thanks, Roger --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] ouch
Roger, Nothing to fix this specific problem. For the future, I have implemented triggers on source tables which archive out data and creates a header record for date/time info. This allow reporting on changes and be able to retrieve source that has gone missing. On development tables you do need to clean out the archives as they grow. But comes in handy. Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 12:35:17 PM, you wrote: ron We just had something chew up two source programs today. We ron have restored from yesterday, but that still means 4-5 lost ron hours. And the programmer is one of those young guys that works ron directly to/from the screen rather then pencil scribling like this old timer. ron He still has the latest version of object. Is there a ron quick/free way to look at his object code and remind him of the program structure? -- DSig ` David Tod Sigafoos ( O O ) ___oOOo__( )__oOOo___ ...our behavior matters more than the beliefs that we profess. Elizabeth Deutsch Earle --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] ouch
A former co-worker of mine had a nifty paragraph he wrote which would edit, compile, catalog and run a program in one fell swoop. Because I detest wasting time with repetitive tasks, I've written a similar program which also copies the current version of a program to a backup file in case I trash it, or want to revert to a previous version. EDBP [program.name] does the following: 1. Copies [program.name] to a backup directory (e.g. LOUIEB.BP) with a name of program.name:_:date():_:time():_.bak 2. Executes ED LOUIEB.BP program.name 3. Executes BASIC and CATALOG commands unless I say no to a prompt. 4. Executes the cataloged command unless I say no to a prompt. This is the poor dude's version control program. -- Louie In Seattle --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] ouch
quote who=[EMAIL PROTECTED] We just had something chew up two source programs today. We have restored from yesterday, but that still means 4-5 lost hours. And the programmer is one of those young guys that works directly to/from the screen rather then pencil scribling like this old timer. He still has the latest version of object. Is there a quick/free way to look at his object code and remind him of the program structure? VLIST BP FNAME may work, and may not if the source is gone. But it may be worth trying. Also, I have a Linux server on my network that has a 300 GB disk. I have NFS mounts to and from our business system to that Linux server's 300 GB disk. Nightly at 1am, a script I wrote copies our business database, including source and object, and customer/vendor data, etc. from the server to the Linux 300 GB disk in subdirectories named day_01, day_02 day_31 which means we have a month of backups available at any given time. I have HTTP running on the Linux server so programmers can point their browser to it, and select navigate into day_NN/BP/BP to see whatever source code they just hosed. This has saved hours of restore time for me, the IT department (yes, my title is IT Director, but I digress). Just a thought. Easy to implement, even if your server is WINDOWS based using Sambe instead of NFS. I do both, by the way, but the Samba shares backup our accountant's tax tables and other spreadsheets daily at 8am after initial editing is over (she starts at 7am). HTH, Karl Thanks, Roger --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ -- Karl Pearson Director of I.T. ATS Industrial Supply, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.atsindustrial.com 800-789-9300 x29 Local: 801-978-4429 Fax: 801-972-3888 ATS: Customers Are Our Priority --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] ouch
You didn't say unidata or universe... This guy has a unidata decompiler, not sure how fast they are http://www.infocus50.com/products/xtrico.html btw, at 52 I haven't been using paper for 25 years :-) hth, Allen E. Elwood www.tortillafc.com Quality Code Since 1978 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 12:35 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] ouch We just had something chew up two source programs today. We have restored from yesterday, but that still means 4-5 lost hours. And the programmer is one of those young guys that works directly to/from the screen rather then pencil scribling like this old timer. He still has the latest version of object. Is there a quick/free way to look at his object code and remind him of the program structure? Thanks, Roger --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
