Re: [ubuntu-art] [Ubuntu-Art] Hardy GTK theme
As much as I like this idea I think it will present all the problems we see in a dark theme. I put together a real theme to look like this and the dark menu bar and toolbar causes problems in firefox etc...http://guentherbeyer.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/ubuntu_804_theme_test_02b.png Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 15:00:34 +0100 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] [Ubuntu-Art] Hardy GTK theme ..on or around Wed, Nov 07, 2007 at 12:10:54PM -0500, Matthew Nuzum said: On Nov 7, 2007 12:14 AM, Troy James Sobotka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMHO, I like these: http://guentherbeyer.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/ubuntu_804_theme_test_02b.png agreed. this is the best use of black (in itself) i've seen on this list so far. the soft matte gradiant is very easy on the eyes - a most important characteristic. i also like how that black isn't pretending to be some corporeal material, like glass or chrome. it also shows-up just how caramel and glossy the existing icon theme is.. what is the best candidate we have right now for an icon replacement? julian -- http://julianoliver.com http://selectparks.net emails containing HTML will not be read.-- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art _ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHMloc=us-- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] [Ubuntu-Art] Hardy GTK theme
..on or around Wed, Nov 07, 2007 at 12:10:54PM -0500, Matthew Nuzum said: On Nov 7, 2007 12:14 AM, Troy James Sobotka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMHO, I like these: http://guentherbeyer.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/ubuntu_804_theme_test_02b.png agreed. this is the best use of black (in itself) i've seen on this list so far. the soft matte gradiant is very easy on the eyes - a most important characteristic. i also like how that black isn't pretending to be some corporeal material, like glass or chrome. it also shows-up just how caramel and glossy the existing icon theme is.. what is the best candidate we have right now for an icon replacement? julian -- http://julianoliver.com http://selectparks.net emails containing HTML will not be read. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] [Ubuntu-Art] Hardy GTK theme
I really like that one too. One question. Are we dead set on using black? How about a Very dark, almost black, shade of brown? Something between pantone 418 and 419... http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b369/xl_cheese/darkbrown.jpg That would help soften the theme up a bit. Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 15:00:34 +0100 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] [Ubuntu-Art] Hardy GTK theme ..on or around Wed, Nov 07, 2007 at 12:10:54PM -0500, Matthew Nuzum said: On Nov 7, 2007 12:14 AM, Troy James Sobotka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMHO, I like these: http://guentherbeyer.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/ubuntu_804_theme_test_02b.png agreed. this is the best use of black (in itself) i've seen on this list so far. the soft matte gradiant is very easy on the eyes - a most important characteristic. i also like how that black isn't pretending to be some corporeal material, like glass or chrome. it also shows-up just how caramel and glossy the existing icon theme is.. what is the best candidate we have right now for an icon replacement? julian -- http://julianoliver.com http://selectparks.net emails containing HTML will not be read.-- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art _ Explore the seven wonders of the world http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+worldmkt=en-USform=QBRE-- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] [Ubuntu-Art] Hardy GTK theme
On Nov 7, 2007 12:14 AM, Troy James Sobotka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote: Another problem with dark themes is a purely technical one. I've done a handful dark themes myself, but they always end up with small glitches here and there because not all apps are designed to respect the theme 100% This makes for a bit of an amateurish feel in the long run. That is not acceptable for Hardy. I always seem to find myself in agreement with Mikkel's observations and conclusions. One thing we may want to consider is quickly getting a dark theme in place in Hardy so that by Alpha 1, which is released November 29th, we can start getting bug reports on these problems. This could be as simple as including the ubuntu-studio theme, or it could be more advanced. I think the key is to get something in soon. Core devs are *already* running hardy, and in large part, they (not us) will need to help identify and communicate these problems to upstream. I can personally attest that a dark theme can be usable and very attractive. It is challenging to achieve a balance and to get your applications working and looking good. The beauty of a dark theme is it draws your eyes to your work, which will have a lighter color, and in a way relegates the controls and chrome to a less prominent positions without actually putting them in an unusual or unexpected place. An additional challenge with this type of functional art is to not be too clever. It still needs to be functional. Hmm... that might be a cool name for the new theme: functional-art. IMHO, I like these: http://guentherbeyer.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/ubuntu_804_theme_test_02b.png http://pinheiro-kde.blogspot.com/2007/11/decisionsdecisionsdecisions-so-many.html I especially like the way the buttons on this theme look similar to the keyboard buttons on the new macbook. -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] [Ubuntu-Art] Hardy GTK theme
I agree, as much as I like dark themes, there are just too many kinks to work out. I do like the idea of packaging an aditional dark theme with hardy though. It would be a good base to build from if we wanted to make a dark theme default in hardy+1 Corey On Nov 7, 2007 1:50 PM, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 07/11/2007, Matthew Nuzum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 7, 2007 12:14 AM, Troy James Sobotka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote: Another problem with dark themes is a purely technical one. I've done a handful dark themes myself, but they always end up with small glitches here and there because not all apps are designed to respect the theme 100% This makes for a bit of an amateurish feel in the long run. That is not acceptable for Hardy. I always seem to find myself in agreement with Mikkel's observations and conclusions. One thing we may want to consider is quickly getting a dark theme in place in Hardy so that by Alpha 1, which is released November 29th, we can start getting bug reports on these problems. This could be as simple as including the ubuntu-studio theme, or it could be more advanced. I think the key is to get something in soon. Core devs are *already* running hardy, and in large part, they (not us) will need to help identify and communicate these problems to upstream. I can personally attest that a dark theme can be usable and very attractive. It is challenging to achieve a balance and to get your applications working and looking good. The beauty of a dark theme is it draws your eyes to your work, which will have a lighter color, and in a way relegates the controls and chrome to a less prominent positions without actually putting them in an unusual or unexpected place. This is exactly my problem with dark themes - the contrast between the surroundings and the document I edit is too big. My eyes get sore after a few hours. For hacking in GEdit this is not a big problem because I can have a dark theme there too, but for OpenOffice I just *need* that white backgound. It is silly to have a wysiwyg editor where there colors are not what other people will see. An additional challenge with this type of functional art is to not be too clever. It still needs to be functional. Hmm... that might be a cool name for the new theme: functional-art. On top of my previous points I simply do not believe that we can smooth out the rough edges (non-theme-compliant-apps) on a dark theme in 6 months. Hardy should be enterprise level and we cannot achieve that on a dark theme in that time frame. Fixing the apps require real developers, not just themers, and we are really short on those. Please not that I really do like dark themes. Maybe we should just bundle a dark version of the final theme. Cheers, Mikkel -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] [Ubuntu-Art] Hardy GTK theme
On 07/11/2007, Matthew Nuzum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 7, 2007 12:14 AM, Troy James Sobotka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote: Another problem with dark themes is a purely technical one. I've done a handful dark themes myself, but they always end up with small glitches here and there because not all apps are designed to respect the theme 100% This makes for a bit of an amateurish feel in the long run. That is not acceptable for Hardy. I always seem to find myself in agreement with Mikkel's observations and conclusions. One thing we may want to consider is quickly getting a dark theme in place in Hardy so that by Alpha 1, which is released November 29th, we can start getting bug reports on these problems. This could be as simple as including the ubuntu-studio theme, or it could be more advanced. I think the key is to get something in soon. Core devs are *already* running hardy, and in large part, they (not us) will need to help identify and communicate these problems to upstream. I can personally attest that a dark theme can be usable and very attractive. It is challenging to achieve a balance and to get your applications working and looking good. The beauty of a dark theme is it draws your eyes to your work, which will have a lighter color, and in a way relegates the controls and chrome to a less prominent positions without actually putting them in an unusual or unexpected place. This is exactly my problem with dark themes - the contrast between the surroundings and the document I edit is too big. My eyes get sore after a few hours. For hacking in GEdit this is not a big problem because I can have a dark theme there too, but for OpenOffice I just *need* that white backgound. It is silly to have a wysiwyg editor where there colors are not what other people will see. An additional challenge with this type of functional art is to not be too clever. It still needs to be functional. Hmm... that might be a cool name for the new theme: functional-art. On top of my previous points I simply do not believe that we can smooth out the rough edges (non-theme-compliant-apps) on a dark theme in 6 months. Hardy should be enterprise level and we cannot achieve that on a dark theme in that time frame. Fixing the apps require real developers, not just themers, and we are really short on those. Please not that I really do like dark themes. Maybe we should just bundle a dark version of the final theme. Cheers, Mikkel -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] [Ubuntu-Art] Hardy GTK theme
As an example of the problems faced. Open up the GIMP or Inkscape in a dark theme. You may notice some of the tool icons become difficult to identify, particularly in Inkscape. tonic On Wed, 2007-11-07 at 14:14 -0500, Corey Woodworth wrote: I agree, as much as I like dark themes, there are just too many kinks to work out. I do like the idea of packaging an aditional dark theme with hardy though. It would be a good base to build from if we wanted to make a dark theme default in hardy+1 Corey On Nov 7, 2007 1:50 PM, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 07/11/2007, Matthew Nuzum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 7, 2007 12:14 AM, Troy James Sobotka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote: Another problem with dark themes is a purely technical one. I've done a handful dark themes myself, but they always end up with small glitches here and there because not all apps are designed to respect the theme 100% This makes for a bit of an amateurish feel in the long run. That is not acceptable for Hardy. I always seem to find myself in agreement with Mikkel's observations and conclusions. One thing we may want to consider is quickly getting a dark theme in place in Hardy so that by Alpha 1, which is released November 29th, we can start getting bug reports on these problems. This could be as simple as including the ubuntu-studio theme, or it could be more advanced. I think the key is to get something in soon. Core devs are *already* running hardy, and in large part, they (not us) will need to help identify and communicate these problems to upstream. I can personally attest that a dark theme can be usable and very attractive. It is challenging to achieve a balance and to get your applications working and looking good. The beauty of a dark theme is it draws your eyes to your work, which will have a lighter color, and in a way relegates the controls and chrome to a less prominent positions without actually putting them in an unusual or unexpected place. This is exactly my problem with dark themes - the contrast between the surroundings and the document I edit is too big. My eyes get sore after a few hours. For hacking in GEdit this is not a big problem because I can have a dark theme there too, but for OpenOffice I just *need* that white backgound. It is silly to have a wysiwyg editor where there colors are not what other people will see. An additional challenge with this type of functional art is to not be too clever. It still needs to be functional. Hmm... that might be a cool name for the new theme: functional-art. On top of my previous points I simply do not believe that we can smooth out the rough edges (non-theme-compliant-apps) on a dark theme in 6 months. Hardy should be enterprise level and we cannot achieve that on a dark theme in that time frame. Fixing the apps require real developers, not just themers, and we are really short on those. Please not that I really do like dark themes. Maybe we should just bundle a dark version of the final theme. Cheers, Mikkel -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] [Ubuntu-Art] Hardy GTK theme
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote: Another problem with dark themes is a purely technical one. I've done a handful dark themes myself, but they always end up with small glitches here and there because not all apps are designed to respect the theme 100% This makes for a bit of an amateurish feel in the long run. That is not acceptable for Hardy. I always seem to find myself in agreement with Mikkel's observations and conclusions. - - From the flurry of 'gtk' observations: 1) Dark themes always break, as per Mikkel's observations. It was a weak point on Ubuntu Studio's theme, and would probably be a crook in this one. In particular, until the panel theme gtkrc issue is resolved, there will almost always be some strange icon residue at the very least. 2) The heavy Crayola outlining of all buttons / tabs / etc. is completely counter any notion of elegance or grace. It is perhaps the weakest element of Tango, and it simply makes work look bold and clunky. Assuming a general audience, we can assume that they can find a button with a fine line. Please let the caustic outlines of Clearlooks / Tango / et al die. It is just weak. 3) The radius of Patel's buttons is a lovely compliment of both subtlety and other features is wonderful. The subtlety of the linework is something to aim for. Even the buttons could use some lightening on the lines. Metacity 2.0 can even do the windows to a similar radii, but the antialiasing makes it rather clunky looking. We would need to resolve this to go with that lovely radius on the windows. 4) The uniform Metacity to GTK Patel window is top shelf, even if a bit OSX. Another +1 from me. 5) I dare say that I disagree with the esteemed MacSlow on the point of differing radii on the various controls. Contrast is a wonderful thing. And god knows we have lived long enough in the monochromatic Ubuntu world. 6) Glossy is done like dinner. It is completely mooky to keep following that path, as it was way back in Edgy. 7) Another +1 to Ken for citing that polling people is pretty useless in the context that the people you are polling are already using Ubuntu. Further, one can only guess what an elephant would look like if designed by polling (or some HIG for that matter). 8) Forest through the trees. Remember that the GTK is one component of the entire presentation. Perhaps we should be considering the other elements that are playing in that symphony? Back to the grinder... TJS -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHMUm5ar0EasPEHjQRAlTTAJ0RmcMIDB3DLsOHP78G1OVxAxNfrwCfTsTN dfm9sz7ieWMar+QESzBsvJY= =68Ki -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
