Re: Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
On mar, 2008-01-08 at 20:24 +, Flávio Martins wrote: So, I would like to hear back from you guys. Your opinions and concerns. Hi, The bittorrent client choice has been discussed at the desktop team meeting on IRC yesterday and nobody had an objection against the change. The replies on the thread have some good argument, especially concerning users who want to do something else that double clicking on a torrent to simple start the corresponding download which was maybe not an obvious usecase to the basic users. Sebastien Bacher -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
There was a recent thread, on this list or moved to this list, with subject: Gnome-Bt should be removed from applications menu The fact that this thread was started, gives a hint that gnome-bt doesn't provide much value or doesn't work how users expect. Therefore they would prefer it removed from the menus where the other applications are. I had a chat with Sebastien, before that thread was even started, about introducing this torrent client as replacement for gnome-bt. I was waiting for the 1.00 release to propose the change on this list and when it happened that's what I did. I'm confident that a thread titled Transmission should be removed from applications menu wouldn't show up if the change took place. Take in mind that the .desktop file was previously removed from the gnome-bt package. While gnome-bt was installed by default, I think that few users noticed the existence of such application. Users who wanted to download a torrent probably installed another client not knowing of the existence of gnome-bt. Flávio Martins On Jan 10, 2008 4:14 PM, Andrea Veri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Flávio Martins ha scritto: | Transmission is a fast, easy, and free multi-platform BitTorrent client | with a focus on being lightweight yet feature-filled. | | I propose we replace, in the default installation, the packages | gnome-btdownload with transmission-gtk. Did you check some popcon statistics between the use of Gnome-bt and transmission in both Debian [1] and Ubuntu [2]? Plus, as Sebastien pointed out, what's wrong with the current gnome-btdownload package? [1] Transmission: http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=transmission and ~ Gnome-bt: http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=gnome-btdownload [2] http://popcon.ubuntu.com/by_inst (search the packages by hand) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHhkRYNVHG4ppG+csRAqU/AJ0bvxXxB26qOqZU2ACEa5zudJ9BPwCg0GaS nzaTl5eUSFAa1a6uYd/szxQ= =viVs -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
Flávio Martins ha scritto: - There is however the transmission-cli package which provides a console client. I guess this is not really needed... we have some other packages available to be used from the command line. (ctorrent for instance) Do you know if anybody is looking at the launchpad bugs for this one? The MOTU-P2P takes care of every P2P-related package, so feel free to jump in if you wanna help out. (e.g with transmission) I would like to create a good cooperation with the transmission maintainers from Debian having the package synced at every revision pop-up as gnome-bt does at the moment. Do you think is possible? Plus is Debian active in maintaining this package? -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
Yes, it would be very interesting to know how many actually uses gnome-btdownload. I don't know anyone. Most people I know, have it installed, but uses other, more modern clients, like Azureus and Utorrent using wine. It's quite common to seed for a long time, and it's common to have alot of torrent files. Gnome-btdownload imposes a limit to how many torrents you can have open, because each torrent represents its own client instance and its own window. Of course, you could dedicate a few workspaces to bit torrent, but that's not pretty. And you'll have to manually open all torrent files each time you log in. I see _no_ reason why we should have an application as default, that people doesn't use. We should have sensible defaults, not defaults that everyone has to replace when they first install the system. Jo-Erlend Schinstad -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
On Jan 10, 2008 5:42 PM, Andrea Veri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The MOTU-P2P takes care of every P2P-related package, so feel free to jump in if you wanna help out. (e.g with transmission) I would like to create a good cooperation with the transmission maintainers from Debian having the package synced at every revision pop-up as gnome-bt does at the moment. Do you think is possible? Plus is Debian active in maintaining this package? Debian maintainers are active. A new upstream version manages to be packaged on the day it is released. They seem very interested in transmission. I'm sure we can cooperate with them and manage to sync the package when needed. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
Jo-Erlend Schinstad ha scritto: One question I can't find an answer to in this discussion, is why we want to have gnome-btdownload. Maybe because it fits fine into the GNOME Desktop? Maybe because it's easy and simple to use, it doesn't have tons of different configurations and does the work for a newbie, who just joined Ubuntu (e.g right click on a torrent and the trick is done). I would like to remember you that the torrent protocol is not well-known and usually a great number of people prefer to use other applications like Amule and so on. What do you think? Andrea -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
On 10/01/2008, Andrea Veri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jo-Erlend Schinstad ha scritto: One question I can't find an answer to in this discussion, is why we want to have gnome-btdownload. Maybe because it fits fine into the GNOME Desktop? Maybe because it's easy and simple to use, it doesn't have tons of different configurations and does the work for a newbie, who just joined Ubuntu (e.g right click on a torrent and the trick is done). I would like to remember you that the torrent protocol is not well-known and usually a great number of people prefer to use other applications like Amule and so on. What do you think? Andrea Like you, I think it's important to have a usable client. Transmission is not any more complicated than gnome-btdownload, but it's usable for more advanced users too. Transmission works just the same way, except you have one window for all torrents. The number of configuration options is low, and sensible. I also got the impression that it's faster, but that's just an impression. I asked in #Ubuntu on freenode now, if anyone could recommend a bit torrent client for Ubuntu. People actually recommended all the other clients, except gnome-btdownload and Transmission. I thought that was interesting. I then asked in #Ubuntu-OffTopic how people felt about replacing gnone-btdownload, and the response was a unanimous yes. Jo-Erlend Schinstad -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
On 10/01/2008, Martin Ahnelöv [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: tor 2008-01-10 klockan 03:47 +0100 skrev Jo-Erlend Schinstad: Hello, On 08/01/2008, Flávio Martins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Transmission is a fast, easy, and free multi-platform BitTorrent client with a focus on being lightweight yet feature-filled. I propose we replace, in the default installation, the packages gnome-btdownload with transmission-gtk. I'm all for it. I think Transmission is very user friendly, and currently is the perfect choice of BitTorrent client for the Gnome Desktop. The Gtk+ client has a well-designed and simple user interface. Yes, it's perfect for the Gnome Desktop, providing the feeling users are looking for in a bit torrent application, while not complicating things. [snip] We do need something better than gnome-btdownload and this is by far the best candidate I've seen. I would actually argue that if we would replace gnome-btdownload, it should be with Deluge [1], and not Transmission. Why? 1. It's developed in Python with PyGTK. 2. it's aimed intended to be The Choice of bittorrent client on the gnome desktop, and follows the gnome HIG. 3. Very active and fast development. Monthly release cycle. 4. Deluge is very modular, and every feature is it's own plugin: You can have something very simple that just works, or you could use a fullblown feature-set that's almost comparable to Azureus. [1] http://deluge-torrent.org/ But just for the record, I don't think we need anything else than gnome-btdownload. Gasten Well, I do see your point. However, the number of features isn't the most important aspect, I think. Many of the more modern clients have alot of different settings, that people also doesn't use. What I liked best about Transmission, was the small number of sensible configuration options. Deluge, for instance, uses configuration GUI space to ask if you want to password protect the system tray icon. Who uses that? It's just annoying. Fine, if people want those advanced options, nothing is keeping them from installing Azureus or something like that, but they certainly aren't normal users. One question I can't find an answer to in this discussion, is why we want to have gnome-btdownload. Because it's there? We could use that as a point in any argument; We don't have to fix this.. People have always managed without it. Jo-Erlend Schinstad -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
Jo-Erlend Schinstad ha scritto: I then asked in #Ubuntu-OffTopic how people felt about replacing gnone-btdownload, and the response was a unanimous yes. Not nice to hear from a Gnome-bt's maintainer but anyway some of the points you reported above can be considered fair enough. Andrea -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
Well, I do see your point. However, the number of features isn't the most important aspect, I think. Many of the more modern clients have alot of different settings, that people also doesn't use. What I liked best about Transmission, was the small number of sensible configuration options. Deluge, for instance, uses configuration GUI space to ask if you want to password protect the system tray icon. Who uses that? It's just annoying. [snip] Sure, it's just annoying. it's still just a option in a configuration file. Also, you can't decide where Transmission should save the completed downloads (at least not by default). That is annoying. (I can imagine users go huh, where's the file?) That's not true. You can decide that when you open the torrent file. However, I feel that all downloads, no matter where they come from, should go in /home/user/Downloads, but that's another issue. Transmission is also pretty ugly, and don't look good in the rest of the gnome-theme. On a related note, I closed it, and not until later I discovered that it was hiding in the systray and leaking bandwidth. Not nice. Gasten Are you talking about the version in Gutsy or Hardy? There is a rather significant difference. The version in Hardy has some improvements. I agree, you should be notified when such an application is minimized to tray and you think it's closed. However, that's just a minor bug, which could be fixed in no time. Did you report that bug btw? When Bit Torrent was first conceived and released, it was meant as a way to help webservers reduce their upstream bandwidth usage. That is, it should be similar to a normal download dialog from Internet Explorer. However, that's not the way bit torrent is used anymore. People use bit torrent much more like they would use eMule, Limewire, or any other p2p application. Gnome-btdownload does not reflect this change in behaviour. Ubuntu should make available software to fit peoples uses, not the other way around. Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. -- Albert Einstein. Jo-Erlend -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
As far as i'm concerned i'm very fond of transmission since it is a sngle windows piece of software (instead of having lost of windows) besides it is very fast and has a clean and simple UI as mentionned by Flávio Martins Message du 08/01/08 à 21h24 De : Flávio Martins [EMAIL PROTECTED] A : ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com Copie à : Objet : Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default Transmission is a fast, easy, and free multi-platform BitTorrent client with a focus on being lightweight yet feature-filled. I propose we replace, in the default installation, the packages gnome-btdownload with transmission-gtk. I think Transmission is very user friendly, and currently is the perfect choice of BitTorrent client for the Gnome Desktop. The Gtk+ client has a well-designed and simple user interface. Fedora 8 ships transmission-gtk on their LiveCD and probably on the default Gnome Desktop installation too. For Mac OSX users Transmission is already the BitTorrent Client of choice. Transmission[1] is an actively developed project, you can read more about it on the dedicated wikipedia article[2]. The packages are in the official repositories, so fi you're interested, just install the packages with the command: sudo apt-get install transmission-gtk Users of Hardy Heron will be installing version 1.0 of Transmission, released this month. Users of Ubuntu 7.10 will be running a earlier version 0.72, most similar to what ships in Fedora 8. So, I would like to hear back from you guys. Your opinions and concerns. For Ubuntu developers: Upstream uses Trac[3] for all the development tracking. Ubuntu is currently taking Debian's source packages[4] with no changes. Regards, Flávio Martins [1] http://www.transmissionbt.com [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_(BitTorrent_client) [3] http://trac.transmissionbt.com [4] http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/transmission.html [ (pas de nom de fichier) (0.1 Ko) ] ___ Mon PC est garanti sans DRM, sans virus et sans spyware grâce à GNU/Linux (Ubuntu) : ainsi je garde le contrôle de mon système. 98% des mails échangés sont en fait du spam : y participez-vous en faisant suivre les courriels idiots que vous recevez? -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
I agree about the transmission. There are only a few things I would recommend. 1. Download all files to ~/Downloads. Firefox too! 2.when I press the x buttion it should ask if I want to close it, or minimize it to the tray. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
Hello, Just go to http://trac.transmissionbt.com/ , register and submit two tickets :) The problem is, the Download folder is usually not existent by default, like for example in Ubuntu. So even if you patched transmission to download to a Download folder it should be created by default by the user or upon install like the Documents folder is created already. The second point already works in a different way. When you click the x button it minimizes and when you try to quit from the menus it asks if you are sure. Flávio Martins On Jan 11, 2008 12:38 AM, Trevor Schauls [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree about the transmission. There are only a few things I would recommend. 1. Download all files to ~/Downloads. Firefox too! 2.when I press the x buttion it should ask if I want to close it, or minimize it to the tray. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
As one of the Transmission developers, I wanted to speak up and make myself available for questions and feedback. I like gnome-bt but, as you'd expect, I'd love for Ubuntu to use Transmission. To answer a couple of earlier questions: (1) Sebastien Bacher wrote: Could you explain what are the gnome-btdownload issues and what transmission-gtk does better? Like gnome-bt, Transmission tries to be simple and just work, but Transmission also has MSE/PE encryption, supports port forwarding for UPnP/NAT-PMP routers, has the ability to choose which files in a torrent to not download, has the ability to prioritize which files to download first, and provides a gui for creating new torrents. (2) Andrea Veri wrote: and popcorn should reach high numbers for that package as well (if it's *really* the best software around)...600+ users is not enough to promote a package to be installed as the main Torrent application for Ubuntu. Transmission 1.00 has been downloaded 234,014 times since it was released five days ago. cheers, Charles -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
Hello, On 11/01/2008, Charles Kerr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As one of the Transmission developers, I wanted to speak up and make myself available for questions and feedback. I like gnome-bt but, as you'd expect, I'd love for Ubuntu to use Transmission. Good to have you with us. :) Like gnome-bt, Transmission tries to be simple and just work, but Transmission also has MSE/PE encryption, supports port forwarding for UPnP/NAT-PMP routers, has the ability to choose which files in a torrent to not download, has the ability to prioritize which files to download first, and provides a gui for creating new torrents. Transmission 1.00 has been downloaded 234,014 times since it was released five days ago. That's quite a few downloads, and it's probably not counting those coming from distro repositories? Congratulations on your success :) You answered several of my questions, however, I have one more for you. Does it support DHT for trackerless torrents? That seems to be important to people. Jo-Erlend Schinstad -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
Hello, On 08/01/2008, Flávio Martins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Transmission is a fast, easy, and free multi-platform BitTorrent client with a focus on being lightweight yet feature-filled. I propose we replace, in the default installation, the packages gnome-btdownload with transmission-gtk. I'm all for it. I think Transmission is very user friendly, and currently is the perfect choice of BitTorrent client for the Gnome Desktop. The Gtk+ client has a well-designed and simple user interface. Yes, it's perfect for the Gnome Desktop, providing the feeling users are looking for in a bit torrent application, while not complicating things. I've been using uTorrent for this for a good while, because it provides exactly that; a simple, but effective user interface. It's a download application. I don't want one that uses half my system resources either. uTorrent also forced me to install wine, which I'm not really interested in. I'd much rather have a pure and clean system. This is a perfect client for me. Well.. You could say that since Transmission is already in the repositories, it's my own fault for not taking the time to get a proper overview of the applications available before taking the radical step of installing a proprietary Windows application. But people use either software that they already know, or software that's already available. Bit Torrent is important and it deserves some attention. We do need something better than gnome-btdownload and this is by far the best candidate I've seen. Thanks. Jo-Erlend Schinstad -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Proposing Transmission BitTorrent client as default
Transmission is a fast, easy, and free multi-platform BitTorrent client with a focus on being lightweight yet feature-filled. I propose we replace, in the default installation, the packages gnome-btdownload with transmission-gtk. I think Transmission is very user friendly, and currently is the perfect choice of BitTorrent client for the Gnome Desktop. The Gtk+ client has a well-designed and simple user interface. Fedora 8 ships transmission-gtk on their LiveCD and probably on the default Gnome Desktop installation too. For Mac OSX users Transmission is already the BitTorrent Client of choice. Transmission[1] is an actively developed project, you can read more about it on the dedicated wikipedia article[2]. The packages are in the official repositories, so fi you're interested, just install the packages with the command: sudo apt-get install transmission-gtk Users of Hardy Heron will be installing version 1.0 of Transmission, released this month. Users of Ubuntu 7.10 will be running a earlier version 0.72, most similar to what ships in Fedora 8. So, I would like to hear back from you guys. Your opinions and concerns. For Ubuntu developers: Upstream uses Trac[3] for all the development tracking. Ubuntu is currently taking Debian's source packages[4] with no changes. Regards, Flávio Martins [1] http://www.transmissionbt.com [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_(BitTorrent_client) [3] http://trac.transmissionbt.com [4] http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/transmission.html -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
