Re: Mark in a kilt...

[AndyP via use-livecode]

What a great way to announce that LiveCode (and Scotland) have arrived. Super
publicity move.



-
Andy Piddock 


My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. 

TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode
TinyIDE 


Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk  

PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / 
finder.
http://www.pointandsee.co.uk  - made with LiveCode
--
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Mark-in-a-kilt-tp4717794p4717801.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Sluggish on Mobile Device

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 7/29/17 11:02 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
It sounds like *something* in the group structure is causing 
accelRendering not to be effective (although I'm not sure what from the 
description).


@Mark: I've just found why it's failing. It's the stack structure, not 
the engine. That's what happens when a lot of people work on the same 
project; it changed without my noticing.


Just thought I'd mention it in case you were hovering over the bug 
database wondering where my report was. ;)


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: AW: load URL is broken in 8.1.4

[Charles Warwick via use-livecode]

Hi Tiemo,

My apologies if there was a regression due to tsNet in those particular 
versions.


Between tsNet 1.2.7 and tsNet 1.2.8, the only change to the Windows 
build was an update of the underlying curl library that tsNet uses.


While that does open the possibility for a regression, the underlying 
curl library remained the same between tsNet 1.2.8 and tsNet 1.2.9 
(which I believe you are not having the issue with).


Best Regards,

Charles


On 31/07/2017 10:15 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:

Sorry, this part should be:

"So I would guess that tsNet 1.2.8 has caused this bug for you in 8.1.4,
which was fixed in tsNet 1.2.9 (included in LC 8.1.5)."

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 1:14 PM, panagiotis merakos <
panos.mera...@livecode.com> wrote:


Hi Tiemo,

The "load url" call does use tsNet if you are on Indy or Business. In fact
every network-related operation does use tsNet on Indy and Business.
Moreover, the tsNet external was updated in LiveCode 8.1.4 rc2 (to fix bug
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19026), so it quite possible
that this update has caused the regression you experienced in 8.1.4 stable.

For reference, those are the tsNet versions that are included in the LC
recent versions:

LC 8.1.4 rc-1 : tsNet 1.2.7
LC 8.1.4-rc-2 until 8.1.4 stable: tsNet 1.2.8
LC 8.1.5 stable: tsNet 1.2.9
LC 8.1.6 rc-1 until 8.1.6 stable (to be released very soon): tsNet 1.2.10

When a LC release includes a new tsNet version, this is mentioned in the
release email.

So I would guess that tsNet 1.2.9 has caused this bug for you in 8.1.4,
which was fixed in tsNet 1.2.10 (included in LC 8.1.5).

Best regards,
Panos
--



On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


Hi Mark,
thank you for your explanations. What I can understand are the
regressions switching from 6 to 7/8, because of widely new underlying
architecture and components. That was a huge step. There I had a lot of
sympathy. What is much more harder to understand and acceptable are the
regressions within version 8. I would think that there is not such a
general exchange of components under the hood from 8.1.4rc1 to 8.1.4, which
would make a total test of every detail necessary. My first idea was a bug
in tsNet.dll, but this "load URL" bug is not caused by the different
versions of tsnet, but definitively by LC 8.1.4.
Tiemo


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im
Auftrag von Mark Waddingham via use-livecode
Gesendet: Montag, 31. Juli 2017 13:41
An: How to use LiveCode 
Cc: Mark Waddingham 
Betreff: Re: AW: load URL is broken in 8.1.4

I don't think there is anyway we can deny that the transition from 6.x to
7.x caused a lot of regressions.

This is why we have a strict policy of handling maintenance releases now
- i.e. we work very hard to ensure each maintenance version is strictly
better than before.

I know of a number of users who have had similar difficulties moving from
6 straight to 8 - however, barring the occasional error (e.g. The backdrop
fiasco and the load URL one you mention directly) 8.1.(x+1) has had less
regressions relative to 6 - and no regressions relative to 8.1.x.

Also (as far as we can) regressions relative to older versions get very
high priority in our bug fixing queue.

So things might not yet be perfect but I'd hope that everyone can see
that we've made great strides (indeed, we've made good progress on fixing
issues which have been around a lot longer recently - even back to the very
early days of the MetaCard engine).

No-one likes encountering regressions - however in a system as complex
and broad as ours they are often unavoidable.

Every one sees a different view of the elephant so to speak - and we try
to act as quickly as we can when issues are reported (usually seeeing them
fixed in the next maintenance release).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone


On 31 Jul 2017, at 12:27, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode <

use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

I forgot my final question: Have you made similar experiences or is it
only me and how do you handle this permanent hazard of regression bugs?
Tiemo

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im
Auftrag von Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
Gesendet: Montag, 31. Juli 2017 11:16
An: LiveCode User Liste senden 
Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB 
Betreff: load URL is broken in 8.1.4

Hello,

For my automatic update mechanism I am downloading a zip file from a
web server, extracting the zip file and starting the downloaded update.

I am doing this since years, without having changed anything in my
code. Now in 8.1.4, Windows 10 this load URL downloads a
"broken/corrupted" empty zip file, which breaks my whole update
process. In 8.1.4 rc1 this still has worked and in 

Re: Mark in a kilt...

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

I want to know where they found the piper. Did they bring him from Scotland 
just for the grand entrance?


I loved it though, I watched it multiple times.


On July 31, 2017 7:10:17 PM Colin Holgate via use-livecode 
 wrote:


It was more the bagpipes than the kilt that I thought might draw attention 
to them.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



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Re: Mark in a kilt...

[Colin Holgate via use-livecode]

It was more the bagpipes than the kilt that I thought might draw attention to 
them.


> On Jul 31, 2017, at 7:48 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Agreed.
> I'd feel much less self-conscious wearing a kilt and shirt than I would 
> wearing a suit & tie :-)
> 
> Alex.
> 
> 
> On 01/08/2017 00:45, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>> Excellent!
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 31, 2017, at 6:44 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I bet Kevin and Mark didn’t feel at all self conscious:
>>> 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBUR8U03B3U
>>> 


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Re: Mark in a kilt...

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

Agreed.
I'd feel much less self-conscious wearing a kilt and shirt than I would 
wearing a suit & tie :-)


Alex.


On 01/08/2017 00:45, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:

Excellent!

Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 31, 2017, at 6:44 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode 
 wrote:

I bet Kevin and Mark didn’t feel at all self conscious:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBUR8U03B3U



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Re: Mark in a kilt...

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Excellent!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 31, 2017, at 6:44 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I bet Kevin and Mark didn’t feel at all self conscious:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBUR8U03B3U
> 
> 
> 
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Mark in a kilt...

[Colin Holgate via use-livecode]

I bet Kevin and Mark didn’t feel at all self conscious:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBUR8U03B3U



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Re: controlNames deprecated??

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I found it. It's the menubar. Not sure why it at that position. I have a 
handler that sets the topleft of the menubar group to the topleft of the stack 
after setting the width of the group to the width of the stack because with 
Windows the menubar is opaque and it looks crappy when the menubar only goes 
part way across the window. It should always be 0,0, but neither here nor 
there. 

I am still able to alter the effectiveRect by dragging the right edge of the 
window to make the stack wider. I already submitted a bug report about that. 

Bob S


> On Jul 31, 2017, at 14:34 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Bob Sneidar wrote:
> > Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >> Could there be a group with hidden border and a margin that puts the
> >> left edge at -1?
> >
> > Yes, but the formatted rect is supposed to IGNORE hidden objects.
> 
> The group's visible property set to false?
> 
> Or is it just that the showBorder is false?
> 
> If the former, file a bug report.
> 
> If the latter, problem solved.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin


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Re: [OT] User testing

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

I downloaded the thing, and it is quite interesting, although "Complete" 
is an exaggeration.


Richmond.

On 7/31/17 11:50 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

Neither do I. Check you antivirus subscription, cross your fingers then click 
the link. NO WAIT! DON'T CLICK THE LINK!!! :-)

Bob S



On Jul 31, 2017, at 11:13 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
 wrote:

I've just been sent this in the email; don't know whether it's
any good or not:

http://info.usertesting.com/Complete-Guide.html?_medium=email_source=hacking-ui_campaign=email_the-complete-guide-to-user-testing-websites-apps-and-prototypes_hacking-ui-pixelbuddha-073117_global___content=hacking-ui-pixelbuddha-073117_term=600x450

Richmond.


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Re: controlNames deprecated??

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Bob Sneidar wrote:
> Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> Could there be a group with hidden border and a margin that puts the
>> left edge at -1?
>
> Yes, but the formatted rect is supposed to IGNORE hidden objects.

The group's visible property set to false?

Or is it just that the showBorder is false?

If the former, file a bug report.

If the latter, problem solved.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: "Cascading" Object-Behaviors

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

OK got it. I take it this is supposed to be a script only stack? That is how I 
saved it. 

Bob S


> On Jul 31, 2017, at 13:20 , Monte Goulding via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> The url got messed up somehow there try:


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Re: controlNames deprecated??

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Yes, but the formatted rect is supposed to IGNORE hidden objects. 

Bob S


> On Jul 31, 2017, at 11:56 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Bob Sneidar wrote:
> 
> >> On Jul 28, 2017, at 16:10 , Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >> Is there maybe an object at -1 left?  When I tested here the
> >> formattedRect returned the bounds of all visible objects reliably.
> >
> > Possible, although it is not a VISIBLE one. I selected all with select
> > grouped on and off. There is nothing I can see to account for it.
> 
> Selection should not affect the formattedRect.
> 
> Could there be a group with hidden border and a margin that puts the left 
> edge at -1?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin


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Re: [OT] User testing

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Neither do I. Check you antivirus subscription, cross your fingers then click 
the link. NO WAIT! DON'T CLICK THE LINK!!! :-)

Bob S


> On Jul 31, 2017, at 11:13 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I've just been sent this in the email; don't know whether it's
> any good or not:
> 
> http://info.usertesting.com/Complete-Guide.html?_medium=email_source=hacking-ui_campaign=email_the-complete-guide-to-user-testing-websites-apps-and-prototypes_hacking-ui-pixelbuddha-073117_global___content=hacking-ui-pixelbuddha-073117_term=600x450
> 
> Richmond.


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Re: revHTTP

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

> On 1 Aug 2017, at 6:34 am, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> it´s include in LC 9 DP7 and up.
> 
> Please note that you have to manually load it with
> start using stack "httpd"
> 
> This is a known issue and was mentioned in the “Known issues” in the release 
> emails, but unfortunately not in the release notes.

That will be fixed in dp-9.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: revHTTP

[Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode]

Hi Alex,

it´s include in LC 9 DP7 and up.

Please note that you have to manually load it with
start using stack "httpd"

This is a known issue and was mentioned in the “Known issues” in the release 
emails, but unfortunately not in the release notes.

Matthias Rebbe
+49 5741 31
‌matthiasrebbe.eu ‌

> Am 31.07.2017 um 22:18 schrieb Monte Goulding via use-livecode 
> >:
> 
> Hi Alex
> 
> You could use the new httpd library that is already included in LiveCode 9 
> for this. Indeed this is what it was created for. We build a standalone with 
> all our tests and serve it with the library. What would be ideal is to create 
> a deploy library similar to the the iOS and Android ones. That way the Test 
> button would build and launch the standalone in your browser. 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> 
>> On 1 Aug 2017, at 5:22 am, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> Does anyone have a copy of (or a currently working link to) Andre's revHTTP ?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Alex
>> 
>> P.S. I'm thinking of making a script-only stack that is a UI-free Simple 
>> HTTP server - and then suggesting to Livecode Ltd that the HTML5 deployment 
>> guide recommend it rather than the Python SimpleHTTPServer solution 
>> currently suggested. Building this on top of Andre's core code would 
>> probably mean I'd get a working version, without too many bugs, much more 
>> quickly than if I do it myself.
>> 
>> P.P.S and as a bonus, I'd then be able to add the bridge/relay function 
>> easily, so I can download off-domain web pages for my little app :-)
>> 
>> 
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Re: Points of Graphic Oval

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Both are part of the joke. I shouldn't explain it because that is like 
disecting a frog. The frog dies and nobody cares. :-)

But geometrically in any line there are an infinite number of points, because a 
point is an infinitely small coordinate. That's if by point you mean literally 
points in the geometrical sense. But if you mean how many pixels on a given 
display to create a visually smooth curve, well that is another matter. And if 
by points you meant anchors in a vector based drawing program, why typically 4 
points, although 3 will do, I just don't know how perfect the circle can be and 
I thing an oval would require 4. 

See? The frog died and nobody cares! 

Bob S


> On Jul 31, 2017, at 08:34 , hh via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Bob S. wrote:
>> By strict geometry, an infinite amount. Using Bezier, 4. :-)
> 
> Just because I am curious which part of your statement is the joke:
> 
> How do you define "strict geometry"?
> And what is an "infinite amount"?


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Re: "Cascading" Object-Behaviors

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

The url got messed up somehow there try:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5600 


> On 1 Aug 2017, at 6:12 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I click the link, I go there I log in I cannot see anywhere where there is a 
> file to download or code to copy. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jul 30, 2017, at 13:27 , Monte Goulding via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I have implemented a scriptifier utility script if you are interested here 
>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5600
> 
> 
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Re: revHTTP

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

Hi Alex

You could use the new httpd library that is already included in LiveCode 9 for 
this. Indeed this is what it was created for. We build a standalone with all 
our tests and serve it with the library. What would be ideal is to create a 
deploy library similar to the the iOS and Android ones. That way the Test 
button would build and launch the standalone in your browser. 

Cheers

Monte

> On 1 Aug 2017, at 5:22 am, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a copy of (or a currently working link to) Andre's revHTTP ?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Alex
> 
> P.S. I'm thinking of making a script-only stack that is a UI-free Simple HTTP 
> server - and then suggesting to Livecode Ltd that the HTML5 deployment guide 
> recommend it rather than the Python SimpleHTTPServer solution currently 
> suggested. Building this on top of Andre's core code would probably mean I'd 
> get a working version, without too many bugs, much more quickly than if I do 
> it myself.
> 
> P.P.S and as a bonus, I'd then be able to add the bridge/relay function 
> easily, so I can download off-domain web pages for my little app :-)
> 
> 
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Re: revHTTP

[Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode]

https://bitbucket.org/andregarzia/revonrockets/src/b4262227f94fd5b4efec828b3c0e88650e222e49/RevHTTP/?at=default
 



Matthias Rebbe
+49 5741 31
‌matthiasrebbe.eu ‌

> Am 31.07.2017 um 21:22 schrieb Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
> >:
> 
> Does anyone have a copy of (or a currently working link to) Andre's revHTTP ?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Alex
> 
> P.S. I'm thinking of making a script-only stack that is a UI-free Simple HTTP 
> server - and then suggesting to Livecode Ltd that the HTML5 deployment guide 
> recommend it rather than the Python SimpleHTTPServer solution currently 
> suggested. Building this on top of Andre's core code would probably mean I'd 
> get a working version, without too many bugs, much more quickly than if I do 
> it myself.
> 
> P.P.S and as a bonus, I'd then be able to add the bridge/relay function 
> easily, so I can download off-domain web pages for my little app :-)
> 
> 
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Matthias Rebbe
+49 5741 31
‌matthiasrebbe.eu ‌

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Re: revHTTP

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Alex Tweedly wrote:
> Does anyone have a copy of (or a currently working link to) Andre's
> revHTTP ?

Andre stopped work on that a long time ago, and I haven't seen it linked 
into his current site.


I also made a fork of the original mchttpd, and here's a copy with 
minimal changes to allow it to work with modern browsers:



I have a newer one I started poking around in that had some performance 
improvements that made it half as fast as Apache, but since Apache is 
already done and twice as fast I stopped working on it.


More recently we have yet another, from Monte:


That was is reported to be somewhere in the LC install, but I haven't 
turned it up either locally or at Github. I'm sure it's there, but a lot 
of stuff is there. :)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: "Cascading" Object-Behaviors

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I click the link, I go there I log in I cannot see anywhere where there is a 
file to download or code to copy. 

Bob S


> On Jul 30, 2017, at 13:27 , Monte Goulding via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have implemented a scriptifier utility script if you are interested here 
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5600


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Re: Points of Graphic Oval

[Quentin Long via use-livecode]

The obvious method for generating the points of an oval—use a loop that 
generates sin(x) & cos(x) coördinate-pairs—has already been mentioned. What's 
*not* so obvious, is that the points generated by that method are not evenly 
spaced! Not unless you're working with a perfect circle, anyway. For non-circle 
ovals, the distance between any two consecutive points will rise with the 
distance between those points and the origin. So if you're using those points 
in a "move [whatever] to the points of"-type command, the thing you're moving 
will not move at a constant speed… well, not unless your 'oval' is a circle, in 
which case the distance to the origin will be constant, hence the resulting 
speed of motion will also be constant.

The closer your 'oval' is to a perfect circle, the less obvious the deviations 
from constant speed will be, of course. You'll have to decide for yourself 
whether those deviations are of great-enough magnitude to be worth worrying 
about.

If deviations from constant speed *are* worth worrying about? Depending on what 
you're actually doing, you may actually want to have the oval-path-constrained 
motion vary in speed, and the particular mode of variance you end up with may 
be exactly the mode of variance you get from using the obvious method. But in 
any other case, you may want to look into a different method for generating the 
set of oval-points you use.

   
"Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length"

Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]!

If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ 
http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ].

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revHTTP

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

Does anyone have a copy of (or a currently working link to) Andre's 
revHTTP ?


Thanks

Alex

P.S. I'm thinking of making a script-only stack that is a UI-free Simple 
HTTP server - and then suggesting to Livecode Ltd that the HTML5 
deployment guide recommend it rather than the Python SimpleHTTPServer 
solution currently suggested. Building this on top of Andre's core code 
would probably mean I'd get a working version, without too many bugs, 
much more quickly than if I do it myself.


P.P.S and as a bonus, I'd then be able to add the bridge/relay function 
easily, so I can download off-domain web pages for my little app :-)



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Re: controlNames deprecated??

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Bob Sneidar wrote:

>> On Jul 28, 2017, at 16:10 , Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> Is there maybe an object at -1 left?  When I tested here the
>> formattedRect returned the bounds of all visible objects reliably.
>
> Possible, although it is not a VISIBLE one. I selected all with select
> grouped on and off. There is nothing I can see to account for it.

Selection should not affect the formattedRect.

Could there be a group with hidden border and a margin that puts the 
left edge at -1?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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[OT] User testing

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

I've just been sent this in the email; don't know whether it's
any good or not:

http://info.usertesting.com/Complete-Guide.html?_medium=email_source=hacking-ui_campaign=email_the-complete-guide-to-user-testing-websites-apps-and-prototypes_hacking-ui-pixelbuddha-073117_global___content=hacking-ui-pixelbuddha-073117_term=600x450

Richmond.
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Re: Wait, the problem, and why it is important to solve

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

I agree.

i have yet to use the HTML output  but I would have a hard time meeting
my needs without the wait feature as I use it to keep the UI from ever
being blocked which is part of a major feature of the software I am
building.

While I don't  anticipate having this need to output to HTML anytime soon,
if ever, it seems impractical to exclude it for all the reasons you
mentioned.  If we want the HTML engine to be anywhere near as robust and
(precisely controllable) as it is for the desktops, it just has to be there.

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 12:01 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Indeed - we can make all the things on the list I made have a callback /
> without waiting form too.
>
> In terms of wait itself - it is the HyperTalk way of doing 'async' -
> allowing you to write such code without the 'headache' of nested callbacks
> / closures and such - this is why it is important to retain and improve. It
> makes coding event driven things easier.
>
> The fact that C# has async, and JS is getting it (because node.js
> primarily) shows that it is an important pattern. One we've had for years,
> just in a restricted (recursive) form.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 31 Jul 2017, at 16:39, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 07/29/2017 09:23 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> >>
> >> P.S. One other possibility I've toyed with is doing LCS->BYTECODE, then
> BYTECODE->ASYNCIFIED_JAVASCRIPT. The latter would be particularly easy if
> targetting browsers which have already implemented the new async JavaScript
> features. Since it looks like the HTML5 engine will only become truly
> widely usable when we move to WASM, this might well be a much more
> maintainable, and relatively quicker option.
> >
> > I also want to point out (thanks for that long well-thought-out post)
> that many of the use cases you list might be better served with callback
> functions than with a cobbled-together 'wait' command. Javascript on its
> own doesn't have a wait or sleep command, and while there are ways to
> simulate the effect, they are problematic in a real-world environment where
> network timing issues are out of control of the calling code.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Wieder
> > ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>
>
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Re: Sneaky email messages

[prothero--- via use-livecode]

I would hope that users get some kind if privacy notification that they must 
agree to. For example, if students are taking an online course, it will be 
useless unless they agree to having their scores or grades for their work  sent 
in. 

Best,
Bill P

William Prothero
http://ed.earthednet.org

> On Jul 31, 2017, at 7:45 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> You would probably be flagged as malware and the user alerted in any event. 
> Collecting ANY information and sending it down the wire can be construed by 
> end users as spyware. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jul 29, 2017, at 07:58 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> " When Livecode executes the *revMail* command, the user's email program is 
>> opened (*if necessary*) and a new email message with the specified 
>> parameters is created.
>> The user can change any of the settings before sending the message, and the 
>> message is *not sent automatically*: the user must explicitly send it (for 
>> example,
>> by clicking a "Mail" button in the email program)."
>> 
>> My colourisation.
>> 
>> Is there a way to:
>> 
>> 1. prevent the end-user's email client opening?
>> 
>> 2. send an email message automatically?
>> 
>> OK: let me be direct and open about this:
>> 
>> I want standalones sitting on machines of clients of mine to send me their 
>> MAC addresses and the type of operating system they are using.
>> 
>> 3. Would I be an "underhand so-and-so" if I did this?
>> 
>> I am aware that many items of software "phone home".
>> 
>> Richmond.
>> ___
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>> preferences:
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> 
> 
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Re: Points of Graphic Oval

[hh via use-livecode]

> Mark wrote:
>> How do you define "strict geometry"? 
> That would be my seventh-grade math teacher 
>> And what is an "infinite amount"? 
> For points in an oval, that would be Aleph-one, no? 

I see. When you selected to return 360 points for the effective
points of an oval (what is, TMHO, a 'natural' choice) you did
indeed ask HAL, thinking of aleph1.
You couldn't accept the answer. And now Scott has to convince BR
that a "decent" number [= trunc(27*pi/2)] of points are usually
good enough for "move to " ...

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Re: Wait, the problem, and why it is important to solve

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

Indeed - we can make all the things on the list I made have a callback / 
without waiting form too.

In terms of wait itself - it is the HyperTalk way of doing 'async' - allowing 
you to write such code without the 'headache' of nested callbacks / closures 
and such - this is why it is important to retain and improve. It makes coding 
event driven things easier.

The fact that C# has async, and JS is getting it (because node.js primarily) 
shows that it is an important pattern. One we've had for years, just in a 
restricted (recursive) form.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 31 Jul 2017, at 16:39, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 07/29/2017 09:23 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
>> P.S. One other possibility I've toyed with is doing LCS->BYTECODE, then 
>> BYTECODE->ASYNCIFIED_JAVASCRIPT. The latter would be particularly easy if 
>> targetting browsers which have already implemented the new async JavaScript 
>> features. Since it looks like the HTML5 engine will only become truly widely 
>> usable when we move to WASM, this might well be a much more maintainable, 
>> and relatively quicker option.
> 
> I also want to point out (thanks for that long well-thought-out post) that 
> many of the use cases you list might be better served with callback functions 
> than with a cobbled-together 'wait' command. Javascript on its own doesn't 
> have a wait or sleep command, and while there are ways to simulate the 
> effect, they are problematic in a real-world environment where network timing 
> issues are out of control of the calling code.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
> ___
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Re: Points of Graphic Oval

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 07/31/2017 08:34 AM, hh via use-livecode wrote:

Bob S. wrote:
By strict geometry, an infinite amount. Using Bezier, 4. :-)


Just because I am curious which part of your statement is the joke:

How do you define "strict geometry"?


That would be my seventh-grade math teacher 


And what is an "infinite amount"?


For points in an oval, that would be Aleph-one, no?

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Wait, the problem, and why it is important to solve

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 07/29/2017 09:23 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

P.S. One other possibility I've toyed with is doing LCS->BYTECODE, then 
BYTECODE->ASYNCIFIED_JAVASCRIPT. The latter would be particularly easy 
if targetting browsers which have already implemented the new async 
JavaScript features. Since it looks like the HTML5 engine will only 
become truly widely usable when we move to WASM, this might well be a 
much more maintainable, and relatively quicker option.




I also want to point out (thanks for that long well-thought-out post) 
that many of the use cases you list might be better served with callback 
functions than with a cobbled-together 'wait' command. Javascript on its 
own doesn't have a wait or sleep command, and while there are ways to 
simulate the effect, they are problematic in a real-world environment 
where network timing issues are out of control of the calling code.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Points of Graphic Oval

[hh via use-livecode]

> Bob S. wrote:
> By strict geometry, an infinite amount. Using Bezier, 4. :-)

Just because I am curious which part of your statement is the joke:

How do you define "strict geometry"?
And what is an "infinite amount"?

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Re: Parsing (scraping) OpenGraph Tags from html HEAD

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 07/29/2017 01:16 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote:





LOL. I guess Brahmanathaswami's been around these parts long enough by 
now to have OG status.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Points of Graphic Oval

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 07/31/2017 07:55 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:


By strict geometry, an infinite amount. Using Bezier, 4. :-)


Hey, no fair. Using Bezier curves is cheating. 

But yeah, thus my rather snarky reply which should have had a smiley 
thing anyway. When I wrote the effective points code I made ovals have 
360 points because that seemed logical. Nobody's complained yet, but I'm 
guessing that Brahmanathaswami is the first one who's tried this.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com


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Re: How can I scrape text from a web page that is generated by javascript?

[Roger Eller via use-livecode]

Indeed.  In fact, Thierry Douez solved this over the weekend with a mix of
that and some regex.


On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via
use-livecode  wrote:

> FYI depending on what you are trying to get out you can also
>
> get the htmltext of widget "browser"; set the htmltext of templateField();
> put the text of templateField()
>
> and see if that may serve in some use case.
>
>
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Re: Points of Graphic Oval

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

By strict geometry, an infinite amount. Using Bezier, 4. :-)

Bob S


> On Jul 30, 2017, at 21:46 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 07/30/2017 09:06 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> OK, so how can we generate the points of  a perfect oval?
> 
> How many points would you guess are in an oval?
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder


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Re: controlNames deprecated??

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Possible, although it is not a VISIBLE one. I selected all with select grouped 
on and off. There is nothing I can see to account for it. 

Bob S


> On Jul 28, 2017, at 16:10 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is there maybe an object at -1 left?  When I tested here the formattedRect 
> returned the bounds of all visible objects reliably.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin


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Re: Sneaky email messages

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

You would probably be flagged as malware and the user alerted in any event. 
Collecting ANY information and sending it down the wire can be construed by end 
users as spyware. 

Bob S


> On Jul 29, 2017, at 07:58 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> " When Livecode executes the *revMail* command, the user's email program is 
> opened (*if necessary*) and a new email message with the specified parameters 
> is created.
> The user can change any of the settings before sending the message, and the 
> message is *not sent automatically*: the user must explicitly send it (for 
> example,
> by clicking a "Mail" button in the email program)."
> 
> My colourisation.
> 
> Is there a way to:
> 
> 1. prevent the end-user's email client opening?
> 
> 2. send an email message automatically?
> 
> OK: let me be direct and open about this:
> 
> I want standalones sitting on machines of clients of mine to send me their 
> MAC addresses and the type of operating system they are using.
> 
> 3. Would I be an "underhand so-and-so" if I did this?
> 
> I am aware that many items of software "phone home".
> 
> Richmond.
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
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[ANN] Release 8.1.6

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

Dear List Members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.6 Stable. By
"Stable", we mean that no reported regressions have been introduced in
8.1.6, compared to the previous Stable release.

LiveCode 8.1.6 contains 38 extra bug fixes and new features, compared to
LiveCode 8.1.5.

You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
the automatic updater.

Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at
http://quality.livecode.com/

Warmest regards,
The LiveCode Team
--
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Re: AW: load URL is broken in 8.1.4

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

Sorry, this part should be:

"So I would guess that tsNet 1.2.8 has caused this bug for you in 8.1.4,
which was fixed in tsNet 1.2.9 (included in LC 8.1.5)."

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 1:14 PM, panagiotis merakos <
panos.mera...@livecode.com> wrote:

> Hi Tiemo,
>
> The "load url" call does use tsNet if you are on Indy or Business. In fact
> every network-related operation does use tsNet on Indy and Business.
> Moreover, the tsNet external was updated in LiveCode 8.1.4 rc2 (to fix bug
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19026), so it quite possible
> that this update has caused the regression you experienced in 8.1.4 stable.
>
> For reference, those are the tsNet versions that are included in the LC
> recent versions:
>
> LC 8.1.4 rc-1 : tsNet 1.2.7
> LC 8.1.4-rc-2 until 8.1.4 stable: tsNet 1.2.8
> LC 8.1.5 stable: tsNet 1.2.9
> LC 8.1.6 rc-1 until 8.1.6 stable (to be released very soon): tsNet 1.2.10
>
> When a LC release includes a new tsNet version, this is mentioned in the
> release email.
>
> So I would guess that tsNet 1.2.9 has caused this bug for you in 8.1.4,
> which was fixed in tsNet 1.2.10 (included in LC 8.1.5).
>
> Best regards,
> Panos
> --
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Mark,
>> thank you for your explanations. What I can understand are the
>> regressions switching from 6 to 7/8, because of widely new underlying
>> architecture and components. That was a huge step. There I had a lot of
>> sympathy. What is much more harder to understand and acceptable are the
>> regressions within version 8. I would think that there is not such a
>> general exchange of components under the hood from 8.1.4rc1 to 8.1.4, which
>> would make a total test of every detail necessary. My first idea was a bug
>> in tsNet.dll, but this "load URL" bug is not caused by the different
>> versions of tsnet, but definitively by LC 8.1.4.
>> Tiemo
>>
>>
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im
>> Auftrag von Mark Waddingham via use-livecode
>> Gesendet: Montag, 31. Juli 2017 13:41
>> An: How to use LiveCode 
>> Cc: Mark Waddingham 
>> Betreff: Re: AW: load URL is broken in 8.1.4
>>
>> I don't think there is anyway we can deny that the transition from 6.x to
>> 7.x caused a lot of regressions.
>>
>> This is why we have a strict policy of handling maintenance releases now
>> - i.e. we work very hard to ensure each maintenance version is strictly
>> better than before.
>>
>> I know of a number of users who have had similar difficulties moving from
>> 6 straight to 8 - however, barring the occasional error (e.g. The backdrop
>> fiasco and the load URL one you mention directly) 8.1.(x+1) has had less
>> regressions relative to 6 - and no regressions relative to 8.1.x.
>>
>> Also (as far as we can) regressions relative to older versions get very
>> high priority in our bug fixing queue.
>>
>> So things might not yet be perfect but I'd hope that everyone can see
>> that we've made great strides (indeed, we've made good progress on fixing
>> issues which have been around a lot longer recently - even back to the very
>> early days of the MetaCard engine).
>>
>> No-one likes encountering regressions - however in a system as complex
>> and broad as ours they are often unavoidable.
>>
>> Every one sees a different view of the elephant so to speak - and we try
>> to act as quickly as we can when issues are reported (usually seeeing them
>> fixed in the next maintenance release).
>>
>> Warmest Regards,
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On 31 Jul 2017, at 12:27, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I forgot my final question: Have you made similar experiences or is it
>> > only me and how do you handle this permanent hazard of regression bugs?
>> > Tiemo
>> >
>> > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> > Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im
>> > Auftrag von Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
>> > Gesendet: Montag, 31. Juli 2017 11:16
>> > An: LiveCode User Liste senden 
>> > Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB 
>> > Betreff: load URL is broken in 8.1.4
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > For my automatic update mechanism I am downloading a zip file from a
>> > web server, extracting the zip file and starting the downloaded update.
>> >
>> > I am doing this since years, without having changed anything in my
>> > code. Now in 8.1.4, Windows 10 this load URL downloads a
>> > "broken/corrupted" empty zip file, which breaks my whole update
>> > process. In 8.1.4 rc1 this still has worked and in 8.1.5 it seems to
>> > work again without any changes in my code or the zip file. I didn't
>> tested yet 8.1.6 and 9.
>> >
>> > I had done a minor change in my program, completely far off the
>> > download handler 

Re: AW: load URL is broken in 8.1.4

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

Hi Tiemo,

The "load url" call does use tsNet if you are on Indy or Business. In fact
every network-related operation does use tsNet on Indy and Business.
Moreover, the tsNet external was updated in LiveCode 8.1.4 rc2 (to fix bug
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19026), so it quite possible
that this update has caused the regression you experienced in 8.1.4 stable.

For reference, those are the tsNet versions that are included in the LC
recent versions:

LC 8.1.4 rc-1 : tsNet 1.2.7
LC 8.1.4-rc-2 until 8.1.4 stable: tsNet 1.2.8
LC 8.1.5 stable: tsNet 1.2.9
LC 8.1.6 rc-1 until 8.1.6 stable (to be released very soon): tsNet 1.2.10

When a LC release includes a new tsNet version, this is mentioned in the
release email.

So I would guess that tsNet 1.2.9 has caused this bug for you in 8.1.4,
which was fixed in tsNet 1.2.10 (included in LC 8.1.5).

Best regards,
Panos
--



On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Mark,
> thank you for your explanations. What I can understand are the regressions
> switching from 6 to 7/8, because of widely new underlying architecture and
> components. That was a huge step. There I had a lot of sympathy. What is
> much more harder to understand and acceptable are the regressions within
> version 8. I would think that there is not such a general exchange of
> components under the hood from 8.1.4rc1 to 8.1.4, which would make a total
> test of every detail necessary. My first idea was a bug in tsNet.dll, but
> this "load URL" bug is not caused by the different versions of tsnet, but
> definitively by LC 8.1.4.
> Tiemo
>
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im
> Auftrag von Mark Waddingham via use-livecode
> Gesendet: Montag, 31. Juli 2017 13:41
> An: How to use LiveCode 
> Cc: Mark Waddingham 
> Betreff: Re: AW: load URL is broken in 8.1.4
>
> I don't think there is anyway we can deny that the transition from 6.x to
> 7.x caused a lot of regressions.
>
> This is why we have a strict policy of handling maintenance releases now -
> i.e. we work very hard to ensure each maintenance version is strictly
> better than before.
>
> I know of a number of users who have had similar difficulties moving from
> 6 straight to 8 - however, barring the occasional error (e.g. The backdrop
> fiasco and the load URL one you mention directly) 8.1.(x+1) has had less
> regressions relative to 6 - and no regressions relative to 8.1.x.
>
> Also (as far as we can) regressions relative to older versions get very
> high priority in our bug fixing queue.
>
> So things might not yet be perfect but I'd hope that everyone can see that
> we've made great strides (indeed, we've made good progress on fixing issues
> which have been around a lot longer recently - even back to the very early
> days of the MetaCard engine).
>
> No-one likes encountering regressions - however in a system as complex and
> broad as ours they are often unavoidable.
>
> Every one sees a different view of the elephant so to speak - and we try
> to act as quickly as we can when issues are reported (usually seeeing them
> fixed in the next maintenance release).
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 31 Jul 2017, at 12:27, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I forgot my final question: Have you made similar experiences or is it
> > only me and how do you handle this permanent hazard of regression bugs?
> > Tiemo
> >
> > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> > Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im
> > Auftrag von Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
> > Gesendet: Montag, 31. Juli 2017 11:16
> > An: LiveCode User Liste senden 
> > Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB 
> > Betreff: load URL is broken in 8.1.4
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > For my automatic update mechanism I am downloading a zip file from a
> > web server, extracting the zip file and starting the downloaded update.
> >
> > I am doing this since years, without having changed anything in my
> > code. Now in 8.1.4, Windows 10 this load URL downloads a
> > "broken/corrupted" empty zip file, which breaks my whole update
> > process. In 8.1.4 rc1 this still has worked and in 8.1.5 it seems to
> > work again without any changes in my code or the zip file. I didn't
> tested yet 8.1.6 and 9.
> >
> > I had done a minor change in my program, completely far off the
> > download handler and just build a new standalone for a new CD
> > production and thought I'll take the "stable" release 8.1.4 instead of
> > the last build with 8.1.4
> > rc1 for the new production. Because it was only a minor bug fix in my
> > program and I only switched from 8.1.4 to 8.1.4 rc1 I didn't tested
> > each and every possible feature of my program, before going into the
> > production of 

AW: AW: load URL is broken in 8.1.4

[Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode]

Hi Mark,
thank you for your explanations. What I can understand are the regressions 
switching from 6 to 7/8, because of widely new underlying architecture and 
components. That was a huge step. There I had a lot of sympathy. What is much 
more harder to understand and acceptable are the regressions within version 8. 
I would think that there is not such a general exchange of components under the 
hood from 8.1.4rc1 to 8.1.4, which would make a total test of every detail 
necessary. My first idea was a bug in tsNet.dll, but this "load URL" bug is not 
caused by the different versions of tsnet, but definitively by LC 8.1.4.
Tiemo


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von 
Mark Waddingham via use-livecode
Gesendet: Montag, 31. Juli 2017 13:41
An: How to use LiveCode 
Cc: Mark Waddingham 
Betreff: Re: AW: load URL is broken in 8.1.4

I don't think there is anyway we can deny that the transition from 6.x to 7.x 
caused a lot of regressions.

This is why we have a strict policy of handling maintenance releases now - i.e. 
we work very hard to ensure each maintenance version is strictly better than 
before.

I know of a number of users who have had similar difficulties moving from 6 
straight to 8 - however, barring the occasional error (e.g. The backdrop fiasco 
and the load URL one you mention directly) 8.1.(x+1) has had less regressions 
relative to 6 - and no regressions relative to 8.1.x.

Also (as far as we can) regressions relative to older versions get very high 
priority in our bug fixing queue.

So things might not yet be perfect but I'd hope that everyone can see that 
we've made great strides (indeed, we've made good progress on fixing issues 
which have been around a lot longer recently - even back to the very early days 
of the MetaCard engine).

No-one likes encountering regressions - however in a system as complex and 
broad as ours they are often unavoidable.

Every one sees a different view of the elephant so to speak - and we try to act 
as quickly as we can when issues are reported (usually seeeing them fixed in 
the next maintenance release).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 31 Jul 2017, at 12:27, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I forgot my final question: Have you made similar experiences or is it 
> only me and how do you handle this permanent hazard of regression bugs?
> Tiemo
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im 
> Auftrag von Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
> Gesendet: Montag, 31. Juli 2017 11:16
> An: LiveCode User Liste senden 
> Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB 
> Betreff: load URL is broken in 8.1.4
> 
> Hello,
> 
> For my automatic update mechanism I am downloading a zip file from a 
> web server, extracting the zip file and starting the downloaded update.
> 
> I am doing this since years, without having changed anything in my 
> code. Now in 8.1.4, Windows 10 this load URL downloads a 
> "broken/corrupted" empty zip file, which breaks my whole update 
> process. In 8.1.4 rc1 this still has worked and in 8.1.5 it seems to 
> work again without any changes in my code or the zip file. I didn't tested 
> yet 8.1.6 and 9.
> 
> I had done a minor change in my program, completely far off the 
> download handler and just build a new standalone for a new CD 
> production and thought I'll take the "stable" release 8.1.4 instead of 
> the last build with 8.1.4
> rc1 for the new production. Because it was only a minor bug fix in my 
> program and I only switched from 8.1.4 to 8.1.4 rc1 I didn't tested 
> each and every possible feature of my program, before going into the 
> production of a new release. Only by a great chance I discovered that 
> my update process is broken. If I would have sold this new CD 
> production, I would never have been able to update my program again, 
> because the update process would have been broken.
> 
> In all the years working with RunRev/LiveCode I never have experienced 
> so many, frequently regression bugs as in LC 8. I had at least 10-20 
> regression bugs in LC 8, since switching from 6.7. Almost in each 
> single release candidate and each general release there are new 
> regression bugs of old and common features so that it is a game of 
> hazard to use a new release. I have no idea, what is going on behind 
> the scenes in Edinborough, if it is related to the open source 
> development, so that everybody can create regression bugs, but this 
> isn't anymore a reliable software development. The complete responsibility is 
> passed to us.
> 
> Sorry, but I am really pissed off and my trust in every new release 
> has dropped to zero.
> 
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> 

Re: AW: load URL is broken in 8.1.4

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

I don't think there is anyway we can deny that the transition from 6.x to 7.x 
caused a lot of regressions.

This is why we have a strict policy of handling maintenance releases now - i.e. 
we work very hard to ensure each maintenance version is strictly better than 
before.

I know of a number of users who have had similar difficulties moving from 6 
straight to 8 - however, barring the occasional error (e.g. The backdrop fiasco 
and the load URL one you mention directly) 8.1.(x+1) has had less regressions 
relative to 6 - and no regressions relative to 8.1.x.

Also (as far as we can) regressions relative to older versions get very high 
priority in our bug fixing queue.

So things might not yet be perfect but I'd hope that everyone can see that 
we've made great strides (indeed, we've made good progress on fixing issues 
which have been around a lot longer recently - even back to the very early days 
of the MetaCard engine).

No-one likes encountering regressions - however in a system as complex and 
broad as ours they are often unavoidable.

Every one sees a different view of the elephant so to speak - and we try to act 
as quickly as we can when issues are reported (usually seeeing them fixed in 
the next maintenance release).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 31 Jul 2017, at 12:27, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I forgot my final question: Have you made similar experiences or is it only
> me and how do you handle this permanent hazard of regression bugs?
> Tiemo
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
> von Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
> Gesendet: Montag, 31. Juli 2017 11:16
> An: LiveCode User Liste senden 
> Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB 
> Betreff: load URL is broken in 8.1.4
> 
> Hello,
> 
> For my automatic update mechanism I am downloading a zip file from a web
> server, extracting the zip file and starting the downloaded update.
> 
> I am doing this since years, without having changed anything in my code. Now
> in 8.1.4, Windows 10 this load URL downloads a "broken/corrupted" empty zip
> file, which breaks my whole update process. In 8.1.4 rc1 this still has
> worked and in 8.1.5 it seems to work again without any changes in my code or
> the zip file. I didn't tested yet 8.1.6 and 9.
> 
> I had done a minor change in my program, completely far off the download
> handler and just build a new standalone for a new CD production and thought
> I'll take the "stable" release 8.1.4 instead of the last build with 8.1.4
> rc1 for the new production. Because it was only a minor bug fix in my
> program and I only switched from 8.1.4 to 8.1.4 rc1 I didn't tested each and
> every possible feature of my program, before going into the production of a
> new release. Only by a great chance I discovered that my update process is
> broken. If I would have sold this new CD production, I would never have been
> able to update my program again, because the update process would have been
> broken.
> 
> In all the years working with RunRev/LiveCode I never have experienced so
> many, frequently regression bugs as in LC 8. I had at least 10-20 regression
> bugs in LC 8, since switching from 6.7. Almost in each single release
> candidate and each general release there are new regression bugs of old and
> common features so that it is a game of hazard to use a new release. I have
> no idea, what is going on behind the scenes in Edinborough, if it is related
> to the open source development, so that everybody can create regression
> bugs, but this isn't anymore a reliable software development. The complete
> responsibility is passed to us.
> 
> Sorry, but I am really pissed off and my trust in every new release has
> dropped to zero.
> 
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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AW: load URL is broken in 8.1.4

[Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode]

I forgot my final question: Have you made similar experiences or is it only
me and how do you handle this permanent hazard of regression bugs?
Tiemo

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
von Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
Gesendet: Montag, 31. Juli 2017 11:16
An: LiveCode User Liste senden 
Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB 
Betreff: load URL is broken in 8.1.4

Hello,

For my automatic update mechanism I am downloading a zip file from a web
server, extracting the zip file and starting the downloaded update.

I am doing this since years, without having changed anything in my code. Now
in 8.1.4, Windows 10 this load URL downloads a "broken/corrupted" empty zip
file, which breaks my whole update process. In 8.1.4 rc1 this still has
worked and in 8.1.5 it seems to work again without any changes in my code or
the zip file. I didn't tested yet 8.1.6 and 9.

I had done a minor change in my program, completely far off the download
handler and just build a new standalone for a new CD production and thought
I'll take the "stable" release 8.1.4 instead of the last build with 8.1.4
rc1 for the new production. Because it was only a minor bug fix in my
program and I only switched from 8.1.4 to 8.1.4 rc1 I didn't tested each and
every possible feature of my program, before going into the production of a
new release. Only by a great chance I discovered that my update process is
broken. If I would have sold this new CD production, I would never have been
able to update my program again, because the update process would have been
broken.

In all the years working with RunRev/LiveCode I never have experienced so
many, frequently regression bugs as in LC 8. I had at least 10-20 regression
bugs in LC 8, since switching from 6.7. Almost in each single release
candidate and each general release there are new regression bugs of old and
common features so that it is a game of hazard to use a new release. I have
no idea, what is going on behind the scenes in Edinborough, if it is related
to the open source development, so that everybody can create regression
bugs, but this isn't anymore a reliable software development. The complete
responsibility is passed to us.

Sorry, but I am really pissed off and my trust in every new release has
dropped to zero.

Tiemo

 

 

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[ANN] This Week in LiveCode 93

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

Read issue #93 here: https://goo.gl/1U5Zu5

This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.


-- 
Panagiotis Merakos 
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps 
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Re: Parsing (scraping) OpenGraph Tags from html HEAD

[Thierry Douez via use-livecode]

2017-07-29 22:16 GMT+02:00 Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami
​
:


> you want to extract from the  of the document  the openGraph  tags
>
> 
> https://www.youtube.
> com/user/kauaiaadheenam">
> 
> https://yt3.ggpht.
> com/-p766LczvKHY/AAI/AAA/SIu6ZAJbMDc/s900-
> c-k-no-mo-rj-c0xff/photo.jpg">
> 
>
> c) you also cannot depend on the output being line delimited, because some
> CMS's delivery "agents" will minimize this to
>
>  content="https://www.youtube.com/user/kauaiaadheenam;> property="og:title" content="Kauai's Hindu Monastery"> property="og:image" content="https://yt3.ggpht.
> com/-p766LczvKHY/AAI/AAA/SIu6ZAJbMDc/s900-
> c-k-no-mo-rj-c0xff/photo.jpg"> content="{where hinduism meets the future}">
>
> Has anyone rolled up a parser/scraper for this?

Looks like "idiot simple text extraction"



​Hi,

Here is a quick coded piece of code, tested only on your URL.
I did write this regex based on the Datas you provide in your email.
​

>

I see the other thread on scraping pages generated by JS and suspect
> perhaps some wizard among us already has this done…would save a bit of time
> here.
>
> BR
>

​Every time you see any kind of scraping/search/extraction/transformation
in JS, you can be sure
it's possible to do it in LiveCode​

So, here is the code:

   local Rx, Rslt, _Html, OG

   put empty into Rslt
   put URL "https://www.youtube.com/user/kauaiaadheenam; into _Html

   get
"(?ms)"
   put IT into Rx

   repeat while matchChunk( _Html, Rx,p1,p2,p3,p4 )
  put  char p3 to p4 of _Html  into OG[  char p1 to p2 of _Html ]
  delete char 1 to p4 of _Html
   end repeat



and you can test it this way:

   combine OG using return and ":"
   put OG into fld 1





HTH and feel free to ask any question...

Kind regards,

Thierry

-- 

Thierry Douez - sunny-tdz.com
sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage
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Re: Wait, the problem, and why it is important to solve

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

Hi Herman,

This is all very useful information I must confess.

I guess I'm wary of just extrapolating potential performance from piecing 
together results from very different underlying architecture (e.g emterpreter 
vs no emterpreter) over bastions different html5 engine iterations.

Of course your post has made me wonder whether a hybrid approach might work 
(i.e. emterpret enough to get wait working but not so much it damages 
performance - I'm sure there was a technical reason why this wasn't an option - 
but it is probably worth trying again).

Also it might be worth doing two versions one wait capable (slow speed); one 
non-wait capable (faster speed).

At least then users have a choice and it will depend on their app which they 
need to use.
 
Anyway, I'm on holiday for a week now so might be a bit quiet on here (compared 
to recently, anyway). However I will return to this, and everything else when 
I'm back.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

On 30 Jul 2017, at 19:25, hh via use-livecode  
wrote:

>> Mark wrote:
>> I'm not sure relating this to RaspPi is useful. The reason is that if I 
>> am wanting to move my Desktop app (Mac, Windows, Linux) app to HTML5 
>> then I'd want the performance in the browser to be within a reasonable 
>> distance of that when on the Desktop...
>> ...The only way to know what the speed of a certain combination of 
>> implementation strategies and execution environments is to actually run 
>> performance tests.
> 
> Well, I compare "scenarios", that is "target-platforms" and  LC versions
> that generate the standalone, running on "medium" hardware (mine, for tests).
> 
> May be some say I'm going to compare apples to oranges. Yes, I do, both are
> fruits and I can eat the one or the other or both. These are my experiences,
> without "wait":
> Say I'm on medium fast machines (2.5GHz), and say I am going to make an
> animation using graphics, with the fastest method (send in time, no wait) and
> everything needed is already available in LC 6.7.11.
> 
> Such scripts will run at about the same speed on desktop Mac/Win/linux (what
> is an excellent result).
> This is the base speed I keep in mind, it is at about the same for standalones
> or still being in the IDE.
> And this is probably one of the most used standalone version that is compared
> to HTML5 standalones, the latter built with "unchanged" source.
> 
> Now I will have here a slow down by a factor of (best cases)...
> ... 10 or 20 when running on Raspi2B+ or Raspi3.
> ... 2-3 when when running in LC 8/9 on the same machine.
> ... 6-32 when running in the newest version of the most used browser on
> Mac/Win/linux in a HTML5 standalone.
> 
> *** For me these are good-to-know thumb-rules, mostly very close to real 
> tests.
> And running a test-stack on Raspi3 in the 6.5.1 IDE is at about the average
> speed I'll get in a HTML5 standalone on a medium fast machine with 
> Mac/Win/linux.
> 
> Once again, compared to LC 8/9 desktop standalones, the slow down factor is...
> ... 3-16 when running in the newest version of the most used browser on
> Mac/Win/linux in a HTML5 standalone (what is an excellent result).
> 
> The lowest slowdown for HTML5 standalone is when using the 'fastest' browser 
> of
> Safari/Firefox/Chrome/Opera which is currently Safari on Mac. For the 
> 'slowest'
> browser (Chrome/Opera) there is AGAIN, compared to Safari, a slow down of 3-4.
> [-> But Opera Developer is already close to Safari!!]
> 
> In sum, if I wish to display a "complicated" clock animation every second 
> (also
> having the different refresh rates of the different main browsers in mind) 
> then
> I know I have to reach less than 30 millisecs per cycle in LC 6.7.11 or 60
> millisecs per cycle in LC 8/9. And I have to "work-around" for the worst case.
> 
> And if you wish to be below the refresh rate of 54 millisecs of Firefox on
> Mac/Win/linux with your HTML5 standalone, then you have to reach 5-6 millisecs
> per cycle in the LC 8/9 IDE on the same machine.
> 
> Such good results are in the dreams only of some other comparable IDE's.
> 
> So no exaggeration is needed. Take it as good as it is. And go on, LC-team, 
> with
> your excellent work to improve it.
> 
> ___
> One possible "test-stack" to reproduce my thumb-rule statements on your own
> machine(s) is the source code of the "LCD"-HTML5 standalone.
> Start there with preset 7 for comparing browsers on the same machine:
> http://hh.on-rev.com/html5/LCD-01e-8.0.2X.html
> (replace "X.html" with ".zip" for the source)
> There is also Raspi stack #79 which is (probably) that source code
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=145528#p145528
> 
> 
> ___
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> preferences:
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Re: gitter

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

Indeed our split isn't perfect - so there's a list of things we can and cannot 
do - depending on which engine version is needed to support the changes - this 
forces a good process (because it forces thought on it).

The submodule link is a version dependence - it's just hard to think of it like 
that because we go engine->ide, rather than ide->engine which would be 'better'.

Of course I use the term A/B testing - but that's just a superset of what we 
are already doing (we're just doing one test at a time at the moment and 
probably will do for quite a while).

However, the underlying process should be the same - and the points of friction 
are actually also points of potential error (in terms of if the boundaries 
weren't there then it would be where we could be more likely to make a mistake) 
- so those points of friction help maintain good process (because it forces us 
to think about the dependencies).

A lot of the IDE first run things are just superficial in the sense they are 
entirely ide code, and engine tweaks are generally fixes which have to follow 
maintenance procedure anyway.

And yes, submodule a cause grumblings internally and from contributors - so 
that just requires tooling to help, and a gradual cleanup of the boundaries of 
our repos so we can eventually restructure slightly to serve us better until 
they aren't a problem anymore. Retaining our quality process is higher priority 
I think, and should come first right now - that's all.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 30 Jul 2017, at 23:17, Monte Goulding via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>>> On 31 Jul 2017, at 6:59 am, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Actually, submodules actually do their job really quite well. They aren't 
>>> ideal, but they do enforce modularity (hence the name ;)). We just need to 
>>> get round to sorting out some tooling (local shell scripts / git hooks) to 
>>> help make sure they aren't quite so easy to forget about syncing properly.
>> 
>> It's possible (and IMO preferable) to have a modular approach to app 
>> building in makefiles and such without forcing git to have to deal with that.
> 
> Submodules are very helpful when they are doing what they are meant to do 
> which is point to a specific version of a dependency.
> 
> Unfortunately with the ide submodule we have two way dependencies and tests 
> that break in one or the other or both if they aren’t updated in sync. Indeed 
> we have some ide libraries in the engine repository. So sometimes to make a 
> seemingly small patch you need to patch both repos. Additionally it’s easy to 
> break an IDE test and not find out about it until everything is merged up 
> because tests are run against the main repo (this is potentially solvable by 
> working out how to run the tests for all the submodules but it will require 
> some special Travis wrangling). 
> 
> There is an overhead to all this that I personally believe doesn’t justify 
> the benefits. Should we have IDE A/B test versions then I think we will need 
> to branch the engine repo for them sometimes anyway so any benefits may be 
> less than they at first appear… indeed the scenario may multiply the 
> overheads… 
> 
> Anyway, probably better to continue this discussion internally as not may 
> people here would be interested in this.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
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Re: Points of Graphic Oval

[Richmond via use-livecode]

Personally I would do something I learnt to do in about 1976 in FORTRAN:

make yourself an 800 x 800 stack, and a lineField called "POYNTS",
and an irregular polygon called "POLLY"

put 0 into KOUNT
repeat until KOUNT > 6.29
put (KOUNT * 100) + 1 into LYNE
put (400 +((sin(KOUNT))*300)) into LR
put (400 +((cos(KOUNT))*300)) into UP
put LR,UP into line LYNE of fld "POYNTS"
add 0.01 to KOUNT
end repeat
set the points of grc "POLLY" to the lines of fld "POYNTS"

I wrote this "straight off" into the e-mail client without checking it 
in LC: it SHOULD
generate a CIRCLE with points; you can them squish the thing to get the 
Oval you require.


Richmond.



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load URL is broken in 8.1.4

[Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode]

Hello,

For my automatic update mechanism I am downloading a zip file from a web
server, extracting the zip file and starting the downloaded update.

I am doing this since years, without having changed anything in my code. Now
in 8.1.4, Windows 10 this load URL downloads a "broken/corrupted" empty zip
file, which breaks my whole update process. In 8.1.4 rc1 this still has
worked and in 8.1.5 it seems to work again without any changes in my code or
the zip file. I didn't tested yet 8.1.6 and 9.

I had done a minor change in my program, completely far off the download
handler and just build a new standalone for a new CD production and thought
I'll take the "stable" release 8.1.4 instead of the last build with 8.1.4
rc1 for the new production. Because it was only a minor bug fix in my
program and I only switched from 8.1.4 to 8.1.4 rc1 I didn't tested each and
every possible feature of my program, before going into the production of a
new release. Only by a great chance I discovered that my update process is
broken. If I would have sold this new CD production, I would never have been
able to update my program again, because the update process would have been
broken.

In all the years working with RunRev/LiveCode I never have experienced so
many, frequently regression bugs as in LC 8. I had at least 10-20 regression
bugs in LC 8, since switching from 6.7. Almost in each single release
candidate and each general release there are new regression bugs of old and
common features so that it is a game of hazard to use a new release. I have
no idea, what is going on behind the scenes in Edinborough, if it is related
to the open source development, so that everybody can create regression
bugs, but this isn't anymore a reliable software development. The complete
responsibility is passed to us.

Sorry, but I am really pissed off and my trust in every new release has
dropped to zero.

Tiemo

 

 

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Re: Points of Graphic Oval

[hh via use-livecode]

[Once again, without typos (although it works correctly with the typos)]

The following runs in LC 6/7/8/9.

### yields points of an 'elliptical' n0-sided polygon,
### for a 'circular' shape set rx=ry.
-- n0 is the number of vertices (= n0+1 points for a closed polygon)
-- rx is the horizontal radius
-- ry is the vertical radius
-- x0 is the horizontal coord of the shape's center
-- y0 is the vertical coord of the shape's center
function ellipticalPoints n0,rx,ry,x0,y0
  put 2*pi/n0 into cn
  -- n0 vertices --> n0+1 points as we want a closed polygon (start=end)
  -- This is here true as sin(0)=sin(2*pi) and cos(0)=cos(2*pi)
  put empty into pts
  repeat with j= 0 to n0
put CR & (round(rx*sin(j*cn)+x0),round(-ry*cos(j*cn)+y0)) after pts
  end repeat
  return char 2 to -1 of pts
end ellipticalPoints


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Re: Points of Graphic Oval

[hh via use-livecode]

> BR wrote:
> 1) draw graphic  oval  name:  "moveClue1"
> 2) create small image "word_1"
> move image "word_1" to the points of grc "moveClue1" in 2 seconds
> OK, so how can we generate the points of a perfect oval?

> > Scott wrote:
> > You can use the effectivePoints to get the points of any graphic shape,
> > but depending on the size, your oval may produce too many points.
> > In any event, your source oval doesn't need to be perfect. If you
> > a "decent" number of points along the shape of the oval, your image
> > will have the appearance of moving along an elliptical path.

You don't need to create a graphic for that, a ("decent") list of points
is enough:

on mouseUp
  put 200 into x0
  put 200 into y0
  put 100 into rx
  put 100 into ry
  put 36 into n0 #<-- usually enough vertices for 1.5 seconds
  move image 1 to ellipticalPoints(n0,rx,ry,x0,y0) in 1500 millisecs
end mouseUp

### yields points of a elliptical n-sided polygon
### circular: set rx=ry
-- n0 is the number of vertices (= n+1 points as closed polygon)
-- rx is the horizontal radius
-- ry is the vertical radius
-- x0 is the x-coord of the center
-- y0 is the x-coord of the center
function ellipticalPoints n0,rx,ry,x0,y0
  put 2*pi/n0 into cn
  -- n0 vertices --> n0+1 points as we want a 'closed' polygon
  -- This is here true as sin(0)=sin(2*pi) and cos(0)=cos(2*pi)
  put empty into pts
  repeat with j= 0 to n0
put CR & (round(rx*sin(j*cn)+x0),round(-ry*cos(j*cn)+y0)) after pts
  end repeat
  return char 2 to -1 of of pts
end ellipticalPoints


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