Re: 3WDevolution question

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Richard:
I’ve been playing around with this and noticed that if i move the IDE tools 
palette to the right far enough, the 4WDevo palette will move as far to the 
left as I want. So that tells me there is some interaction between the IDE 
tools palette and the 4W palette.

Again, if you can’t make it happen, I can live with it, especially now that 
I’ve played with it a bit more. It’s really pretty minor.
Best,
Bill

> On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:27 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Richard:
> Here’s what I found on the palette thing. I’m no longer worried about the 
> backdrop because it was just me not seeing that there was a LC toolbar menu 
> item that would turn it off. In fact, I may have been blaming Devo 
> incorrectly, when it was LC’s responsibility.
> 
> If you, in 9.0.1 RC 2 or 3, drag the 4W toolbar to the right, lift the mouse, 
> then drag it back to the left, I see it refusing to be dragged fully to the 
> left. In LC 8.2.0, it acts normally, but in  LC 9.0.1 RC3, it won’t return 
> all the way left. It seems like it’s trying to leave space for the IDE Tools 
> palette, but it doesn’t matter whether it’s visible or not.
> 
> Richard, I can live with this. I’m on a Mac. It should be very easy to 
> replicate, if it’s happening on your computer. I wonder if there was some 
> change in the messaging in 9.0.1 versions that causes this.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 8:12 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> William Prothero wrote:
>> 
>>> Folks (Richard?):
>>> Ok, I know this is really easy, I did it when I first installed it,
>>> and I’m probably just not seeing something, but ……..
>>> 
>>> I’m on Apple, 10.13.3 and LC 9.0.1
>>> 
>>> How do I get rid of the white background that covers the desktop when
>>> 4WDevolution is launched? I have gotten used to Devolution and like
>>> it, but it has become a bit annoying lately.
>> 
>> Thanks for writing, Bill.  I got your email as well, still catching up
>> on my In Box after the long holiday weekend.  Replying here is just as good.
>> 
>> 4W devo does not alter the IDE's backdrop settings.  And unfortunately,
>> I'm not able to reproduce that here.
>> 
>> If you open LC's Prefs you should be able to turn off the backdrop from
>> there.
>> 
>> If you have any other details which might help me reproduce that I'll be
>> happy to see what I can do, but AFAIK there are no interactions between
>> 4W devo's prefs and LC's.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Second question: Since 9.0.1 RC1 of livecode, the 4WDevo tool palette
>>> will not stay on the left side. It is exactly offset to show both the
>>> LCE tools palette and the 4WDevo tools palette. But, if I want to
>>> toggle between them, having it offset is a pain. I can move it over
>>> using the Desktop feature of 4WDevo, but then it pops back to the
>>> right after clicking on the 4WDevo palette. Or, just drag it to the
>>> right, then it won’t drag back to the left where it started.
>> 
>> Another oddity that I'm afraid I can't reproduce.  But then again, I
>> spend relatively little time in LC with the IDE's Tool Palette open.
>> I'll play around with it and see what I can find.  If you come up with a
>> step-by-step recipe for me to follow that would help.
>> 
>> Thanks for the report.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>> 
>> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>> 
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Re: Contractors and open source software

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2018-09-05 01:07, Mark Talluto via use-livecode wrote:

I had to work through a contract recently. This particular section was
interesting. Thought I would share it here. I changed the organization
name to [company] to protect this well respected entity.

I can understand their view on the use of open source software. What
are your thoughts?

- - -
Public Software. Contractor will inform [company] in advance of
incorporating any open source software into deliverables or services
provided to [company] under this Agreement, provide [company] with an
analysis of alternative options that do not include open source
software, and will proceed with the use of open source software only
to the extent of [company]’s written consent. To the extent Contractor
incorporates permitted open source software into products or services
provided to [company] under this Agreement such open source software
(and/or Contractor’s inclusion thereof) will not require any software
developed or delivered under the Agreement to be disclosed or
distributed in source code form or made freely available to others.
- - -


Sounds like a perfectly reasonable clause which is more protection for 
you than the contractor.


Basically it ensures that the Contractor will do necessary due diligence 
on the software licenses attached to any source-code they incorporate 
into the project being worked on to ensure that:


  (a) you as the contractee are happy with using said software under its 
published terms and are willing to abide by them (for MIT / BSD, that 
just means an 'open source licenses' file, which you need to one of 
anyway, as that is part of the commercial license terms of LiveCode).


  (b) will not let you get into a situation where source-code has been 
incorporated which means that you entire project must be released under 
some open source license.


Put another way the contractor is saying that:

  1) They will notify you of any parts which could be done using open 
source software, and with other options so you have choice


  2) They will not consider viral open source licenses (e.g. GPL) as 
being suitable for inclusion


LiveCode's licensing is pretty straightforward:

If you have a commercial license you have the right to use a downloaded 
distribution in any way which does not contravene the commercial license 
terms.


If you do not have a commercial license then you must be using the 
Community version, which is licensed under the GPL - which is viral - 
meaning that any software you create with it must also be distributed 
under GPL terms.


The two variants are, however, completely incompatible in terms of 
licensing - you can't take parts of (GPL licensed!) community and use 
them with commercial as that would mean your combined work would end up 
being GPL, but the commercial part is not, so you cannot distribute 
(which is a side-effect of the clauses in the GPL).


Specific example - you cannot take parts of (GPL Licensed, LiveCode Ltd. 
Copyrighted) source code, recompile and use with commercial - even if 
you have a commercial license. That requires a specific commercial 
source-code license for those particular parts (something which we will 
always consider on a case-by-case basis - although generally not for 
zero cost).


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: 3WDevolution question

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Richard:
Here’s what I found on the palette thing. I’m no longer worried about the 
backdrop because it was just me not seeing that there was a LC toolbar menu 
item that would turn it off. In fact, I may have been blaming Devo incorrectly, 
when it was LC’s responsibility.

If you, in 9.0.1 RC 2 or 3, drag the 4W toolbar to the right, lift the mouse, 
then drag it back to the left, I see it refusing to be dragged fully to the 
left. In LC 8.2.0, it acts normally, but in  LC 9.0.1 RC3, it won’t return all 
the way left. It seems like it’s trying to leave space for the IDE Tools 
palette, but it doesn’t matter whether it’s visible or not.

Richard, I can live with this. I’m on a Mac. It should be very easy to 
replicate, if it’s happening on your computer. I wonder if there was some 
change in the messaging in 9.0.1 versions that causes this.

Best,
Bill

> On Sep 4, 2018, at 8:12 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> William Prothero wrote:
> 
>> Folks (Richard?):
>> Ok, I know this is really easy, I did it when I first installed it,
>> and I’m probably just not seeing something, but ……..
>> 
>> I’m on Apple, 10.13.3 and LC 9.0.1
>> 
>> How do I get rid of the white background that covers the desktop when
>> 4WDevolution is launched? I have gotten used to Devolution and like
>> it, but it has become a bit annoying lately.
> 
> Thanks for writing, Bill.  I got your email as well, still catching up
> on my In Box after the long holiday weekend.  Replying here is just as good.
> 
> 4W devo does not alter the IDE's backdrop settings.  And unfortunately,
> I'm not able to reproduce that here.
> 
> If you open LC's Prefs you should be able to turn off the backdrop from
> there.
> 
> If you have any other details which might help me reproduce that I'll be
> happy to see what I can do, but AFAIK there are no interactions between
> 4W devo's prefs and LC's.
> 
> 
> 
>> Second question: Since 9.0.1 RC1 of livecode, the 4WDevo tool palette
>> will not stay on the left side. It is exactly offset to show both the
>> LCE tools palette and the 4WDevo tools palette. But, if I want to
>> toggle between them, having it offset is a pain. I can move it over
>> using the Desktop feature of 4WDevo, but then it pops back to the
>> right after clicking on the 4WDevo palette. Or, just drag it to the
>> right, then it won’t drag back to the left where it started.
> 
> Another oddity that I'm afraid I can't reproduce.  But then again, I
> spend relatively little time in LC with the IDE's Tool Palette open.
> I'll play around with it and see what I can find.  If you come up with a
> step-by-step recipe for me to follow that would help.
> 
> Thanks for the report.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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PreOpenBackground Messages

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

Quick question about the PreOpenBackground messages...

If you have 2 background groups that both use the same button as their
behavior with the following code:

on preOpenBackground
   put the short id of me after msg
end preOpenBackground

Wouldn't you expect to see the ID of both groups?
I'm seeing the ID of one group twice.

Thanks,
Brian
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Slow LC 9 Performance - Test Stack, Video, QA Report

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

LiveCode 9 (as of 9.0.1 RC 3) is significantly slower than LiveCode 6.7 
in a variety of tasks. This is a huge problem, it affects many of the 
projects I'm doing, and I'm sure others are in the same boat. Fellow 
boat members: please join my bug report/feature request below!


The slowdown can be demonstrated both in test code and in real-world 
applications. The problem(s) may be in a specific area, but the actual 
effects on running code are widespread and fairly general, impacting 
multiple areas in my testing from math and loops to text, chunks, and 
arrays. I am posting some resources tonight to help draw attention and 
evaluate this problem, and requesting that LiveCode 9 be optimized to 
achieve at least speed parity with LiveCode 6 in these areas.


(I am encouraged that some LC engine optimization impacting arrays is 
already underway by LC Mark W., but I want to emphasize and prove beyond 
doubt that several areas are affected and not only arrays. Therefore I 
hope this bug reports and test stack(s) will help to confirm whether the 
optimizations underway also solve the other areas, or whether those 
areas need further separate optimization.)


Resources below.

A) QA Bug or Feature Request:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21561

Report on this problem (which negatively impacts end users for existing 
features) with 2 recipes and downloads (test demo code and real world 
application). If your own app or code is affected by LC 9 performance, 
please add your CC and a comment.


B) YouTube video: LC Version "Showdown"

https://youtu.be/8uhOem46VXg

Thorough demonstration and discussion of my tests and the results, 
pitting LiveCode 6.7 against the latest release of LiveCode 9 in several 
tasks that evaluate loops, math, text appends, array access, item 
chunks, and text replace.


JavaScript code is also tested and provided to provide additional 
reference. (Thanks Richard G. for the suggestion! Very interesting results.)


C) LC Version "Showdown" demo stack:

http://curryk.com/showdown.zip

The stack used in the video. See and test the code for yourself. 
Compares 6.7 and LC 9 (or others, you can use 7 or 8 too) for speed in 
loops, math, text appends, array access, item chunks, and text replace. 
(Also has effects used in video competition; this issue has been on my 
to-do list for some time, and I wanted a stack that looks good, makes 
comparisons quick and easy, and can serve as a useful platform for 
current and future tests.)


Some buttons have right-click or shift-click alternatives, these are 
listed in tooltips. If desired, paste the JavaScript (which is 
automatically placed on the clipboard after each test) into js.do or 
another web page to compare the JS speed to LC.


BTW, I'm only days away from a new WordLib release and have been doing a 
great deal of cross-version testing with it too. That, and Mark's array 
effort, were what prompted me to make extra time for this and get it 
posted today. WordReport is also due for an update, so is WordOut, and 
performance is something I take very seriously. Beyond that, I place the 
highest importance on all client app performance too.


WordLib code uses a variety of the code areas mentioned here, some 
arrays but not relying on them heavily in the work, so I consider it a 
good balanced real-world example of the impact of LC 9 performance. It's 
pretty hard-hit for big files, because many or most operations in LC 9 
take 2x, 3x, or 4x the time compared to LC 6. (In fact I think it's 
somewhat challenging to find substantial code that is NOT hit by LC 9 
performance. I found one example in 9's favor to include in the showdown 
stack and video.)


So again I wanted to emphasize it's not just arrays - that is proven 
here beyond any doubt in downloadable code and on video. I hope the 
array optimizations might help the other areas too, but if not, they 
need attention. Thank you! :)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/


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Re: 3WDevolution question

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

William Prothero wrote:

> Folks (Richard?):
> Ok, I know this is really easy, I did it when I first installed it,
> and I’m probably just not seeing something, but ……..
>
> I’m on Apple, 10.13.3 and LC 9.0.1
>
> How do I get rid of the white background that covers the desktop when
> 4WDevolution is launched? I have gotten used to Devolution and like
> it, but it has become a bit annoying lately.

Thanks for writing, Bill.  I got your email as well, still catching up
on my In Box after the long holiday weekend.  Replying here is just as good.

4W devo does not alter the IDE's backdrop settings.  And unfortunately,
I'm not able to reproduce that here.

If you open LC's Prefs you should be able to turn off the backdrop from
there.

If you have any other details which might help me reproduce that I'll be
happy to see what I can do, but AFAIK there are no interactions between
4W devo's prefs and LC's.



> Second question: Since 9.0.1 RC1 of livecode, the 4WDevo tool palette
> will not stay on the left side. It is exactly offset to show both the
> LCE tools palette and the 4WDevo tools palette. But, if I want to
> toggle between them, having it offset is a pain. I can move it over
> using the Desktop feature of 4WDevo, but then it pops back to the
> right after clicking on the 4WDevo palette. Or, just drag it to the
> right, then it won’t drag back to the left where it started.

Another oddity that I'm afraid I can't reproduce.  But then again, I
spend relatively little time in LC with the IDE's Tool Palette open.
I'll play around with it and see what I can find.  If you come up with a
step-by-step recipe for me to follow that would help.

Thanks for the report.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Contractors and open source software

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mark Talluto wrote:

> I had to work through a contract recently. This particular section was
> interesting. Thought I would share it here. I changed the organization
> name to [company] to protect this well respected entity.
>
> I can understand their view on the use of open source software. What
> are your thoughts?
>
> - - -
> Public Software. Contractor will inform [company] in advance of
> incorporating any open source software into deliverables or services
> provided to [company] under this Agreement, provide [company] with an
> analysis of alternative options that do not include open source
> software, and will proceed with the use of open source software only
> to the extent of [company]’s written consent. To the extent Contractor
> incorporates permitted open source software into products or services
> provided to [company] under this Agreement such open source software
> (and/or Contractor’s inclusion thereof) will not require any software
> developed or delivered under the Agreement to be disclosed or
> distributed in source code form or made freely available to others.
> - - -

Warren Samples' reply said it well.

Nothing to add beyond an appreciation for predictable licensing.  MIT,
Apache, GPL - all very popular and well known.

Proprietary software allows proprietary delivery, but with a very
complicated hitch: you have to review every license of every component
carefully to make sure all terms are compatible with one another.  This
is especially difficult with proprietary software since most licenses
are, well, proprietary themselves.


> I tried looking at is from a very wide perspective and considered that
> portions of the LiveCode engine are open-sourced, even if we are using
> the closed source version.

If one were delivering something under open source license, I would
strongly recommend using the GPL-governed Community Edition.  The
binaries are similar but not the same, and only the GPL-governed edition
gives you the right to redistribute the engine in standalone form under
GPL license.


> So, we requested to have that section removed from the contract. Guess
> what? They took it out. Now I have nothing to worry about. Still found
> it interesting.

Some of the best business advice I was ever given was from my boss when
I was doing contract review for an environmental remediation firm (talk
about loong contracts):

"Their counsel's job is to ask for the world.  Your job is to ask for
half of it back."

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Contractors and open source software

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Bob Sneidar wrote:

> The Community version license I think specifies that you cannot create
> software for resale, you have to purchase a commercial license, so you
> can't produce commercial software with Community without violating the
> license.
>
> I will be corrected if this is not the case.

Your friendly neighborhood FOSS curmudgeon at your service. :)

The GPL expresses no opinion about charging a price for software.  The
"free" in "Free Software" is about freedom: you are free to use the
software however you like, modify it however you like, and share the
modifications with anyone you like.

As a practical matter, though, Free Software is also usually given away
without cost. This is not a licensing requirement, but merely a
reflection of the economic reality at play: if your user has the right
to share the software with anyone at any price or no price at all, they
usually will, so you'd sell exactly one copy.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Contractors and open source software

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 09/04/2018 04:57 PM, Warren Samples via use-livecode wrote:


It seems reasonable. They want to avoid any unanticipated legal hassles ($$$) 
with open-source license holders, and also avoid having to turn over anything 
that they would prefer to be their own private intellectual property. They're 
on the ball. How this would play out could depend on which open-source license 
is involved. There are possibly some that they could accept since they allow 
more freedom than some others.


That's my take as well. They're looking ahead to avoid conflicting 
licenses and keep out of legal trouble. I haven't seen that in a 
contract before, but now that I see it I'm surprised why not. No doubt 
it's a good thing that they pulled it out - it's something for the 
lawyer types to throw around.


A few years ago I found a clause in an nda that, among other things, 
stipulated that I was not to disclose the existence of the nda (!). I 
squawked about it and refused to sign and the lawyers struck the clause.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: 3WDevolution question

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Must be a bad day. It’s 4World, of course.
Bill

>> 
>> Second question: Since 9.0.1 RC1 of livecode, the 4WDevo tool palette will 
>> not stay on the left side. It is exactly offset to show both the LCE tools 
>> palette and the 4WDevo tools palette. But, if I want to toggle between them, 
>> having it offset is a pain. I can move it over using the Desktop feature of 
>> 4WDevo, but then it pops back to the right after clicking on the 4WDevo 
>> palette. Or, just drag it to the right, then it won’t drag back to the left 
>> where it started.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>> William A. Prothero
>> http://earthlearningsolutions.org
>> 
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Re: Contractors and open source software

[Mark Talluto via use-livecode]

I tried looking at is from a very wide perspective and considered that portions 
of the LiveCode engine are open-sourced, even if we are using the closed source 
version. Since I am not a fan of being involved in legal situations, I also 
considered that the software takes advantage of the internet, servers running 
Linux, PHP and Apache. I do not want to leave any potential legal issues 
uncovered. So, we requested to have that section removed from the contract. 
Guess what? They took it out. Now I have nothing to worry about. Still found it 
interesting.

-Mark Talluto


> On Sep 4, 2018, at 4:34 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> The big question I have is, do they mean the app you develop is open source, 
> as in my Forms Generator project for example, or do they mean developed with 
> open source software? As far as I know, the Indy and Business versions are 
> not considered Open Source, and so what you develop with them, unless you 
> make it so, is not Open Source. 
> 
> The Community version license I think specifies that you cannot create 
> software for resale, you have to purchase a commercial license, so you can't 
> produce commercial software with Community without violating the license. 
> 
> I will be corrected if this is not the case. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 16:07 , Mark Talluto via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I had to work through a contract recently. This particular section was 
>> interesting. Thought I would share it here. I changed the organization name 
>> to [company] to protect this well respected entity.
>> 
>> I can understand their view on the use of open source software. What are 
>> your thoughts?
>> 
>> - - -
>> Public Software. Contractor will inform [company] in advance of 
>> incorporating any open source software into deliverables or services 
>> provided to [company] under this Agreement, provide [company] with an 
>> analysis of alternative options that do not include open source software, 
>> and will proceed with the use of open source software only to the extent of 
>> [company]’s written consent. To the extent Contractor incorporates permitted 
>> open source software into products or services provided to [company] under 
>> this Agreement such open source software (and/or Contractor’s inclusion 
>> thereof) will not require any software developed or delivered under the 
>> Agreement to be disclosed or distributed in source code form or made freely 
>> available to others.
>> - - -
>> 
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Mark Talluto
> 
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Re: Contractors and open source software

[Warren Samples via use-livecode]

On Tue, 4 Sep 2018 16:07:02 -0700
Mark Talluto via use-livecode  wrote:

> Public Software. Contractor will inform [company] in advance of incorporating 
> any open source software into deliverables or services provided to [company] 
> under this Agreement, provide [company] with an analysis of alternative 
> options that do not include open source software, and will proceed with the 
> use of open source software only to the extent of [company]’s written 
> consent. To the extent Contractor incorporates permitted open source software 
> into products or services provided to [company] under this Agreement such 
> open source software (and/or Contractor’s inclusion thereof) will not require 
> any software developed or delivered under the Agreement to be disclosed or 
> distributed in source code form or made freely available to others.
> - - -
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark Talluto

It seems reasonable. They want to avoid any unanticipated legal hassles ($$$) 
with open-source license holders, and also avoid having to turn over anything 
that they would prefer to be their own private intellectual property. They're 
on the ball. How this would play out could depend on which open-source license 
is involved. There are possibly some that they could accept since they allow 
more freedom than some others.

Warren

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Re: 3WDevolution question

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Oh, gaads. I found the View/Backdrop menu setting to move it to the background.
Never mind….
Ok, the tools palette offset is still annoying.
Bill

> On Sep 4, 2018, at 4:32 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Folks (Richard?):
> Ok, I know this is really easy, I did it when I first installed it, and I’m 
> probably just not seeing something, but ……..
> 
> I’m on Apple, 10.13.3 and LC 9.0.1
> 
> How do I get rid of the white background that covers the desktop when 
> 4WDevolution is launched? I have gotten used to Devolution and like it, but 
> it has become a bit annoying lately.
> 
> Second question: Since 9.0.1 RC1 of livecode, the 4WDevo tool palette will 
> not stay on the left side. It is exactly offset to show both the LCE tools 
> palette and the 4WDevo tools palette. But, if I want to toggle between them, 
> having it offset is a pain. I can move it over using the Desktop feature of 
> 4WDevo, but then it pops back to the right after clicking on the 4WDevo 
> palette. Or, just drag it to the right, then it won’t drag back to the left 
> where it started.
> 
> Could somebody remind me of how to hide the full screen background? Since 
> Devo only began the palette location wierdness since LC 9 RC 1, I assume it’s 
> a bug.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> William A. Prothero
> http://earthlearningsolutions.org
> 
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Re: Contractors and open source software

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

The big question I have is, do they mean the app you develop is open source, as 
in my Forms Generator project for example, or do they mean developed with open 
source software? As far as I know, the Indy and Business versions are not 
considered Open Source, and so what you develop with them, unless you make it 
so, is not Open Source. 

The Community version license I think specifies that you cannot create software 
for resale, you have to purchase a commercial license, so you can't produce 
commercial software with Community without violating the license. 

I will be corrected if this is not the case. 

Bob S


> On Sep 4, 2018, at 16:07 , Mark Talluto via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I had to work through a contract recently. This particular section was 
> interesting. Thought I would share it here. I changed the organization name 
> to [company] to protect this well respected entity.
> 
> I can understand their view on the use of open source software. What are your 
> thoughts?
> 
> - - -
> Public Software. Contractor will inform [company] in advance of incorporating 
> any open source software into deliverables or services provided to [company] 
> under this Agreement, provide [company] with an analysis of alternative 
> options that do not include open source software, and will proceed with the 
> use of open source software only to the extent of [company]’s written 
> consent. To the extent Contractor incorporates permitted open source software 
> into products or services provided to [company] under this Agreement such 
> open source software (and/or Contractor’s inclusion thereof) will not require 
> any software developed or delivered under the Agreement to be disclosed or 
> distributed in source code form or made freely available to others.
> - - -
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark Talluto

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3WDevolution question

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Folks (Richard?):
Ok, I know this is really easy, I did it when I first installed it, and I’m 
probably just not seeing something, but ……..

I’m on Apple, 10.13.3 and LC 9.0.1

How do I get rid of the white background that covers the desktop when 
4WDevolution is launched? I have gotten used to Devolution and like it, but it 
has become a bit annoying lately.

Second question: Since 9.0.1 RC1 of livecode, the 4WDevo tool palette will not 
stay on the left side. It is exactly offset to show both the LCE tools palette 
and the 4WDevo tools palette. But, if I want to toggle between them, having it 
offset is a pain. I can move it over using the Desktop feature of 4WDevo, but 
then it pops back to the right after clicking on the 4WDevo palette. Or, just 
drag it to the right, then it won’t drag back to the left where it started.

Could somebody remind me of how to hide the full screen background? Since Devo 
only began the palette location wierdness since LC 9 RC 1, I assume it’s a bug.

Best,
Bill

William A. Prothero
http://earthlearningsolutions.org

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Contractors and open source software

[Mark Talluto via use-livecode]

I had to work through a contract recently. This particular section was 
interesting. Thought I would share it here. I changed the organization name to 
[company] to protect this well respected entity.

I can understand their view on the use of open source software. What are your 
thoughts?

- - -
Public Software. Contractor will inform [company] in advance of incorporating 
any open source software into deliverables or services provided to [company] 
under this Agreement, provide [company] with an analysis of alternative options 
that do not include open source software, and will proceed with the use of open 
source software only to the extent of [company]’s written consent. To the 
extent Contractor incorporates permitted open source software into products or 
services provided to [company] under this Agreement such open source software 
(and/or Contractor’s inclusion thereof) will not require any software developed 
or delivered under the Agreement to be disclosed or distributed in source code 
form or made freely available to others.
- - -


Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io 
nursenotes.net 
canelasoftware.com 




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Timezone library - how to use in Livecode Server?

[Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode]

Hi,

i´ve just noticed that the new Timezone Library is not available under Livecode 
server. I´ve checked the Extension folder  of the desktop version of LC and  
found an .lcb file, which means that the library was written in Livecode 
Builder.

Is there a way to use such libraries with Livecode Server? Or are LCB libraries 
not usable under LC server in general?

Regards,

Matthias
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RE: Play YouTube in Portrait and Turn Landscape

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

Works for me perfectly(embedded YouTube). The audio is uninterrupted and the
video pauses for maybe 0.05 seconds and continues and remains in sync with
audio. I don't use the widget. I use the mobile control browser for 2
reasons. 1) there is no equivalent to "canretreat" or "canadvance" in the
widget. 2) no pinch and zoom on Android with the Widget.

 The fact I even mentioned video/audio syncing is just crazy! How
could we have rock solid synced picture and sound since 1927 until digital
video? This would seem like it should be video 101. I see it online AND on
broadcast TV. Really I turn off whatever I am watching and wonder why
the rest of the world can live with this pre 1927 hand cranked projector
with a cylinder victrola sync quality?

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2018 4:35 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami
Subject: Play YouTube in Portrait and Turn Landscape

can any place browser widget

a) on portrait mode
b) with a youTube embed URL

https://www.youtube.com/embed/2dSHAzV-cAA

c) start to play

d) turn phone landscape and will it still continue to see it?

I am getting the audio, but the picture is appears.

BR

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RE: Android install on Lollypop 9.01 rc2

[Clarence Martin via use-livecode]

Make sure that you uninstall any previous versions of your software first.

Sincerely,

Clarence Martin
Email: chi...@themartinz.com
Cell: 626 696-5561

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode  On Behalf Of
Ralph DiMola via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2018 7:58 AM
To: 'How to use LiveCode' 
Cc: Ralph DiMola 
Subject: Android install on Lollypop 9.01 rc2

I have a tester that can't install an apk on a v5 Android device. All that
the package installer says is "App not installed". No other error message.
Anyone seen this??? Is this that min version thingy?

Thanks in advance...

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


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Re: ANN: LC Documentation Cache Cleaner

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

As usual, I posted, THEN read the thread. :-)

Bob S


> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:19 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 09/04/2018 08:12 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>> Handy, but it didn't quite work correctly. I selected all but the 9.0.1 rc1, 
>> and tried to uncheck confirm, but it confirmed anyway, and deleted 
>> everything but the first 8. I had to do multiple passes before I got them 
>> all.
>> Clicking the confirmation checkbox did not unhilite the button, but rather 
>> showed and hid a green checkmark icon.
> 
> Yeah. Grab it again. It's fixed now.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
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Play YouTube in Portrait and Turn Landscape

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

can any place browser widget

a) on portrait mode
b) with a youTube embed URL

https://www.youtube.com/embed/2dSHAzV-cAA

c) start to play

d) turn phone landscape and will it still continue to see it?

I am getting the audio, but the picture is appears.

BR

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Re: ANN: LC Documentation Cache Cleaner

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 9/3/18 9:08 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

My bad - I actually uploaded an earlier version


Nah, your good. This is really useful, and the error was trivial. You 
also have to be credited with finding those files that most of us didn't 
know existed. I can't believe the cruft my drive accumulated, and Time 
Machine was faithfully duplicating all of it -- which is probably one 
reason I had to buy a second backup drive. Kudos on you.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: ImageHandles_v105

[Mark Talluto via use-livecode]

Hi Hermann. That was fun to explore. Your work on graphics and images is 
amazing.


Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io 
nursenotes.net 
canelasoftware.com 




> On Sep 1, 2018, at 9:27 AM, hh via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just uploaded hhImageHandles to "Sample Stacks".


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RE: Android install on Lollypop 9.01 rc2

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

I suppose it could be the target version but that shouldn't really matter. 
The minimum version should still apply. When my Android v6 downloads an app 
with a higher target I just get a warning in the Play Store that it may not 
be optimized for my device, but it still installs and runs.


Let us know if you figure it out.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On September 4, 2018 10:55:46 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
 wrote:



J,

Thanks.
I need to resolve this ASAP as this is a customer's device.

1) The app is signed and uploaded to PlayStore Beta(So in-app purchasing
stuff will work).
2) The min version is set to 4.1.
3) I have not set any new permissions from the v 8.1.10 build.

Could this be a target version issue? This was discussed awhile back.

I'm going to go back to 8.1.10 and see if it still installs. V5 is still 20%
of market.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2018 11:43 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: J. Landman Gay
Subject: Re: Android install on Lollypop 9.01 rc2

It could be the minimum required version, check that first. Also be sure the
app has been signed (for development only is okay.) It can also happen if
the app manifest requires permissions or features that Android 5 doesn't
support.

Apps are also not installed if the device already has a previous copy with
the same build number, but in that case you don't usually get an error
message.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software |
http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 4, 2018 9:58:00 AM Ralph DiMola
via use-livecode  wrote:


I have a tester that can't install an apk on a v5 Android device. All
that the package installer says is "App not installed". No other error

message.

Anyone seen this??? Is this that min version thingy?

Thanks in advance...

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


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androidRecorderStartRecording Fail on Second Attempt

[Dan Friedman via use-livecode]

Greetings!   If I use androidRecorderStartRecording to record on Android, it 
works perfectly!   However,  If I attempt to call androidRecorderStartRecording 
again duiring the same app session, it doesn’t work… it just halts.

Here’s exactly what I’m doing:

In a button I do this:

androidRecorderSetRecordFormat "MPEG-4"
androidRecorderStartRecording fPath 

Click the button again, and I do this:

try
   androidRecorderStopRecording //will error if not currently recording
end try

I can call "play fPath" and the file plays correctly.

Click the button again, and I do this (same as before):

androidRecorderSetRecordFormat "MPEG-4"
androidRecorderStartRecording fPath   //FAILS!  //yes, fPath is valid it's the 
same path as previously used

I tried to get the result after the second call of 
androidRecorderStartRecording but it couldn't report the result as it had 
already halted execution.

I don't see a androidRecorderReset.  Also, I tried deleting fPath thinking it 
worked when there wasn't a file, but that didn't help.  If I reboot the app on 
the device, it will work again… but only once.

Any thoughts?   

Thanks in advance,
-Dan

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RE: Android install on Lollypop 9.01 rc2

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

J,

Thanks.
I need to resolve this ASAP as this is a customer's device.

1) The app is signed and uploaded to PlayStore Beta(So in-app purchasing
stuff will work).
2) The min version is set to 4.1.
3) I have not set any new permissions from the v 8.1.10 build.

Could this be a target version issue? This was discussed awhile back.

I'm going to go back to 8.1.10 and see if it still installs. V5 is still 20%
of market.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2018 11:43 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: J. Landman Gay
Subject: Re: Android install on Lollypop 9.01 rc2

It could be the minimum required version, check that first. Also be sure the
app has been signed (for development only is okay.) It can also happen if
the app manifest requires permissions or features that Android 5 doesn't
support.

Apps are also not installed if the device already has a previous copy with
the same build number, but in that case you don't usually get an error
message.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software |
http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 4, 2018 9:58:00 AM Ralph DiMola
via use-livecode  wrote:

> I have a tester that can't install an apk on a v5 Android device. All 
> that the package installer says is "App not installed". No other error
message.
> Anyone seen this??? Is this that min version thingy?
>
> Thanks in advance...
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>
>
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Re: Android install on Lollypop 9.01 rc2

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

It could be the minimum required version, check that first. Also be sure 
the app has been signed (for development only is okay.) It can also happen 
if the app manifest requires permissions or features that Android 5 doesn't 
support.


Apps are also not installed if the device already has a previous copy with 
the same build number, but in that case you don't usually get an error message.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On September 4, 2018 9:58:00 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
 wrote:



I have a tester that can't install an apk on a v5 Android device. All that
the package installer says is "App not installed". No other error message.
Anyone seen this??? Is this that min version thingy?

Thanks in advance...

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

I woke up with a "dream" saying ..."hmmm maybe it just a timing issue;
stay away from "preopen[anything]

At least in my case, this worked out of box, super simple

9 line of code to get initial placement
12 line of code in my resize handler

!

So long as

a) the card is rendered
b) all other open and close stack  operation are finished
c) and you stay away from preopenstack/preopencard

# disclaimer -- could have kept going to find the exact recipe in the
pre* handlers
# may be they would work 
# But I have spent too much time to fiddle with it more.




*local*LocalArray, sScreenRect

*on*openCard

*# hide browser for now
*

*hide*widget"body"

*if* isMobile() *then*

*send*"setUpStackRect"tomein500milliseconds

*end* *if*

*end*openCard

*-*

*--# Geometry, initial placement
*

*on*setupStackRect 

*put*mobileRectGet() intosScreenRect 

# get to screenrect of the main backscript library

*# place footer*

*set*bottomof*group*"footer"toitem4ofsScreenRect

*   
set*loc*group*"footer"toround((item3ofsScreenRect)/2),(item4ofsScreenRect)-25

*show**group*"footer"

*# place Browser*

*subtract*50fromitem4ofsScreenRect

*set*therectofwidget"body"tosScreenRect

*show*widget"body"

*end*setupStackRect

*on*resizeStack pNewWidth, pNewHeight, pOldWidth, pOldHeight

*# check it is landscape, turn off the navigation Bar*

*if* pNewWidth > pNewHeight *then* *-- landscape*

*put*0, 0, pNewWidth, pNewHeight intotBrowserRect

*set*locwidget"body"to( round(pNewWidth/2), round(pNewHeight/2) )

*hide**group*"footer"

*else*

*put*0, 0, pNewWidth, pNewHeight - 50intotBrowserRect

*set*loc*group*"footer"to( round(pNewWidth/2),pNewHeight-25)

*show**group*"footer"

*end* *if*

*set*therectofwidget"body"ofmetotBrowserRect

*end*resizeStack


BR


On 8/24/18 5:43 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> It's more complicated than that. Using the iPad Air simulator and this 
> preOpenCard handler:
>
> on preopenstack
>mobileSetAllowedOrientations("portrait")
>iphoneUseDeviceResolution true,true
> end preopenstack
>
> When I press the "Get the rect" button it reports the stack, card, and 
> screenrect are all 0,0,640,960. 


-- 
Svasti Astu, Be Well!
Brahmanathaswami
 
Get the SivaSiva app, it's free:
https://www.himalayanacademy.com/apps/sivasiva


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Re: ANN: LC Documentation Cache Cleaner

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi Mark,

> Am 04.09.2018 um 17:19 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> On 09/04/2018 08:12 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>> Handy, but it didn't quite work correctly. I selected all but the 9.0.1 rc1, 
>> and tried to uncheck confirm, but it confirmed anyway, and deleted 
>> everything but the first 8. I had to do multiple passes before I got them 
>> all.
>> Clicking the confirmation checkbox did not unhilite the button, but rather 
>> showed and hid a green checkmark icon.
> Yeah. Grab it again. It's fixed now.

except the embarrasing "checkbox-group". 8-)

> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com

Best

Klaus

--
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http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: ANN: LC Documentation Cache Cleaner

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 09/04/2018 08:12 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

Handy, but it didn't quite work correctly. I selected all but the 9.0.1 rc1, 
and tried to uncheck confirm, but it confirmed anyway, and deleted everything 
but the first 8. I had to do multiple passes before I got them all.

Clicking the confirmation checkbox did not unhilite the button, but rather 
showed and hid a green checkmark icon.


Yeah. Grab it again. It's fixed now.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: ANN: LC Documentation Cache Cleaner

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Handy, but it didn't quite work correctly. I selected all but the 9.0.1 rc1, 
and tried to uncheck confirm, but it confirmed anyway, and deleted everything 
but the first 8. I had to do multiple passes before I got them all. 

Clicking the confirmation checkbox did not unhilite the button, but rather 
showed and hid a green checkmark icon. 

Bob S


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Android install on Lollypop 9.01 rc2

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

I have a tester that can't install an apk on a v5 Android device. All that
the package installer says is "App not installed". No other error message.
Anyone seen this??? Is this that min version thingy?

Thanks in advance...

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


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[ANN] Release 9.0.1 RC-3

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.0.1 RC-3.


Getting the Release
===
You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
the automatic updater.


Release Contents

LiveCode 9.0.1 RC-3 comes with 1 regression bug fix:

Bug 21532 - Drag and Drop Functionality not working with LC versions 9.0.1
rc1 and rc2 on Mac

Since the last stable release (9.0.0), more than 100 bugs have been fixed.


Known issues


- The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 bit LTS
yet.

The full release notes are available from:

http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_0_1/LiveCodeNotes-9_0_1_rc_3.pdf


Feedback

Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at
http://quality.livecode.com/

We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93


Have fun!
The LiveCode Team
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Re: Where's Fraser?

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Yes it is him, his linked in says he works for Dejero.

I hope he tells them to use LC going forward - especially on the Raspberry
Pi.

Would be nice if he was still on this list and popped in and said Hi.

Lagi

On Mon, 3 Sep 2018 at 21:42, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 9/3/18 10:57 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
> > On 09/03/2018 06:53 AM, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote:
> >> In the spirit of where's wally
> >>
> >> Can you spot Fraser in this Pic?
> >>
> >> https://www.dejero.com/about-us/profile
> >
> > Ha! Well, that certainly looks like Fraser. Is that really him?
>
> Gotta be. Who else would camouflage himself that way? :)
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
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