Re: LC and Hypercard

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

The inability to open HC stacks disappeared with LC 7. You can still open 
them in LC 6, save the stack, and then work with it in later versions.


I'm not sure what we'll do in Catalina when LC 6 won't run any more. I also 
sometimes use Chubby Bunny to emulate OS 9 and look at HC stacks there, but 
that will likely stop working too. Fortunately it's been a very long time 
since I needed to do any HC conversions.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 9, 2019 9:07:15 PM Meitnik via use-livecode 
 wrote:


For a while now, whenever I try to open a .hc or .stk or .Stak or .STACK 
file, LC just bombs HARD

Has Hypercard conversion into LC gone?? Missing the magic steps how to?
Thanks


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.rev files going back to 2001/2002 fails to open

[Meitnik via use-livecode]

open, crash, boom…logs shortly…so am hoping 10 yr old .rev stacks can be worked 
with??!!
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LC and Hypercard

[Meitnik via use-livecode]

For a while now, whenever I try to open a .hc or .stk or .Stak or .STACK file, 
LC just bombs HARD
Has Hypercard conversion into LC gone?? Missing the magic steps how to?
Thanks


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Re: Catalina

[Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode]

Oh. That looks hard. I don't even know how to take control of the 0x80 
interrupt.

However, here are some ideas for alternatives.

Virtual

Parallels has Coherence; Virtual Box has Seamless Mode; VMware has Unity. (I 
don't use these, so check out what I say.) The capability is roughly the same. 
You can run an application on a client OS in a window on the host. So, if you 
have an older macOS running on a virtual machine that can run your app, you can 
set things up so that you can double-click on your desktop and run a 32-bit app.

Real

Another method is to set up little "servers" you can remote into. For example, 
instead of upgrading to Catalina on your old Mac Mini, get a new Mac Mini with 
Catalina and remote desktop into the old Mac Mini. Or have a Mac that is 
running several virtual machines you can remote into (use memory ballooning to 
share it well). The Apple EULA has constraints, but I think this is OK. 

Now, what if you can run an app on a remote machine like Coherence/Unity/SM? 
You can readily run a single app in a window for a linux server using several 
programs such as nomachine and (I think) xpra. But I don't know about macOS. 
Maybe you can make a single-window app full screen and adjust the size of the 
client window. I haven't tried this.

Dar Scott
Mad Scientist

> On Oct 9, 2019, at 3:50 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 10/9/19 2:03 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote:
>> I just use macWrap32. Oh. Wait. There isn't one.
> 
> :) Write one for us.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Re: Catalina

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 10/9/19 2:03 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote:

I just use macWrap32. Oh. Wait. There isn't one.


:) Write one for us.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Catalina

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 10/9/19 11:46 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:

On 10/9/2019 12:29 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
It may be too late for you, but last week I got an email from the 
company that makes my accounting software warning customers not to 
upgrade to Catalina. They said they've been working on the transition 
for a year and thought they'd finish in time but it didn't work out. 
They were quite up-front about it, said they were working hard and 
would let us know when it was ready.

Hah! We clearly use the SAME accounting software!


I was just thinking the same thing. :)

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Questions about LC Server Apps

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Jjs wrote:

>> Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>> Apparently the Server Guide is no longer included in the Sever
>> download.
>>
>> Instead there's a copy of the Release Notes named as though they're
>> specific to Server, but they don't seem to be.
...
>> Once we have it we can put it back into place in the build system as
>> it used to be.
>
> That would be great thanks!

Thanks to Ralf Bitter (of RevIgniter fame) for posting a copy of the 
Server Guide to the forums.


I've now filed a bug report requesting the build system return to 
including that in the LC Server install - a copy of the Server Guide PDF 
is attached to the report:


https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22406

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Thank you for the 9.0.5 update

[Mark Talluto via use-livecode]

For the time being, I am developing on 9.0.5 stable. The reason is that 
debugging with red dots no longer crashes LiveCode. I appreciate the time taken 
to implement this bug fix.

https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/7185 


My productivity has increased by not having to restart my rather complex 
LiveCode setups after a crash. Plus, I can live breakpoint (using the dots) 
while already in debug mode.

Thanks again for this important update.


Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io 
nursenotes.net 
canelasoftware.com 




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Re: Catalina

[Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode]

I just use macWrap32. Oh. Wait. There isn't one.

> On Oct 9, 2019, at 12:17 PM, kee nethery via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I’m not so concerned with the latest version of Catalina as I am with some of 
> the software I use ceasing to function. Want to make sure I either update 
> everything to 64bit, find a replacement, or convert documents into a format 
> that will work with the 64bit apps that I do have.
> 
> Kee
> 
>> On Oct 9, 2019, at 11:09 AM, Richmond via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> As far as I know, Catalina "exists" inside its "own protected space", which 
>> means that it
>> is like that awful conversation you have with your embarrassing relative who 
>> is banged
>> up in one of those American prisons we see in Movies with a thickened 
>> plate-glass window
>> and 2 retro telephone handsets . . .
>> 
>> . . . I remember having a conversation in 1993 from Connecticut with my Mum 
>> (for her birthday)
>> in England with one of those cheapo phone cards that went in for fancy 
>> signal-sharing (or something) where,
>> by the time the person heard what you'd had to say at the other end you'd 
>> had time to regret saying.
> 
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Re: Catalina

[kee nethery via use-livecode]

I’m not so concerned with the latest version of Catalina as I am with some of 
the software I use ceasing to function. Want to make sure I either update 
everything to 64bit, find a replacement, or convert documents into a format 
that will work with the 64bit apps that I do have.

Kee

> On Oct 9, 2019, at 11:09 AM, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> As far as I know, Catalina "exists" inside its "own protected space", which 
> means that it
> is like that awful conversation you have with your embarrassing relative who 
> is banged
> up in one of those American prisons we see in Movies with a thickened 
> plate-glass window
> and 2 retro telephone handsets . . .
> 
> . . . I remember having a conversation in 1993 from Connecticut with my Mum 
> (for her birthday)
> in England with one of those cheapo phone cards that went in for fancy 
> signal-sharing (or something) where,
> by the time the person heard what you'd had to say at the other end you'd had 
> time to regret saying.

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Re: Catalina

[JJS via use-livecode]

I just got an email from Arturia a french based company that makes 
software and nowadays hardware synthesizers too, warning customers not 
to update to Catalina, until there is a hotfix. Many plugins producers 
use in music DAW's are still 32-bits and will not work.


What a great move from Apple.

You can say from Windows what you want, but i have plugins from around 
2003 still working as advertised in Win10-64bits


Op 9-10-2019 om 18:29 schreef J. Landman Gay via use-livecode:
It may be too late for you, but last week I got an email from the 
company that makes my accounting software warning customers not to 
upgrade to Catalina. They said they've been working on the transition 
for a year and thought they'd finish in time but it didn't work out. 
They were quite up-front about it, said they were working hard and 
would let us know when it was ready.


That seemed thoughtful, and probably saved them a lot of tech support 
as well. On the other hand, I almost never upgrade to the first 
release of a major dot-zero version. I wait for the wrinkles to shake 
out.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 9, 2019 10:52:25 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Customer (at least ours) do not understand 32 bit vs 64-bit. They will
only know that (a) Apple says there is a new update for their computer
and they click to update; or (b) as a member of some university or
business, their computer is upgraded (perhaps at their request, perhaps
as part of a planned upgrade cycle).

In either case, after they or some IT person has helped with the OS
update, suddenly some of their software (including ours) no longer works
(being 32-bit). They don't know why. They don't care why.

Now as for the "Well, Apple has been notifying you forever that, as a
developer, you needed to be at 64 bits" or "But if you make your apps in
LiveCode, just recompile with LiveCode 9"

Our apps have hundreds of thousands of line of code. In migrating them
to LiveCode 9, at first they would not even run. In the course of
migrating, Researchware staff has filed some 40 Livecode 9 bugs, some of
which have no or no good workarounds, that directly impact features of
our apps. Thankfully, most have work-arounds, but work-arounds and
testing take time. Now for the record, LiveCode, Ltd. has been
absolutely great in suggesting work-arounds or helping us work through
the most serious of the bugs.

Our customers do not need 64 bits. Our very niche software does what it
needs to do in 32 bits. Our customer have no disk space issues or memory
issues due to both 32 and 64 bits libraries or support. Our customers
would all be very happy to just keep using our tools as is. Hence, my
venting is about Apple's intentionally planned obsolescence. What our
customers want in new versions is not 64 bit, but functional
enhancements to what our software does.

Being a small (very small), we have sunk a year of development in to
getting to LC9 for 64 bit and making sure what we have in our app just
works (QA testing!). We have had no resources to work on new or enhanced
features. So our customers get an upgrade, with almost nothing new
except 64 bit support, which also means with nothing new, we can't in
good conscious charge an upgrade fee for it. Which means lost revenue,
which badly hurts our small business.

Should we have migrated to LC9 sooner? Probably, but doing so would have
meant - as it does now - only doing the migration and not new
features/revenue. Also doing in now, we still found 40 bugs. If we did
it a year or two ago, how many more bugs would we have found that have
since been fixed!

That's what Catalina represents to us. I realize that many many Apple
customers will be delighted with Catalina and I am happy for them. I
just wish that Apple cared a bit more about not breaking what came
before. Say what you will about Microsoft, but I still have specialty
applications written for Windows 2000/XP that run fine under Windows 10!
Microsoft is guilty of many many sins, but **for the most part** they
try to keep things that once once worked still working.

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Re: Catalina

[Richmond via use-livecode]

As far as I know, Catalina "exists" inside its "own protected space", 
which means that it
is like that awful conversation you have with your embarrassing relative 
who is banged
up in one of those American prisons we see in Movies with a thickened 
plate-glass window

and 2 retro telephone handsets . . .

. . . I remember having a conversation in 1993 from Connecticut with my 
Mum (for her birthday)
in England with one of those cheapo phone cards that went in for fancy 
signal-sharing (or something) where,
by the time the person heard what you'd had to say at the other end 
you'd had time to regret saying.


On 9.10.19 20:06, hh via use-livecode wrote:

Bob S. wrote:
Can I just point out, to no one in particular on this list, that
you don't HAVE TO UPGRADE TO CATALINA??? Apple did not cause your
version of LC to become obsolete. YOU DID!

Matthias R. wrote:
Thanks Bot, i thought the same, but did not dare to write it.

It is just the same with new LiveCode versions.
So why did you both ever write about new LC versions?

New MacOS versions are often a downgrade in software speed
(measured relative to hardware speed). This time it is a BIG
downgrade. Just try yourself (but you don't have to ...).

The current Apple style is the 'fake-news-and-status' style:

For example the installer. For at about 45 minutes the estimated
time remaining is repeatedly calculated to 31 minutes and then
going down by one to 27 every ten minutes. This is 5bit computing,
not 64bit.

First everything has to be freshly indexed and cashed, of course.

But then, after *every* startup, the system seems to be ready
but doesn't respond for ten seconds. The same again with Mail,
etc., hopefully not with your standalones.


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Re: Catalina

[Richmond via use-livecode]

Not for me: as a person who is normally an early adopter, I'm breaking 
my own rule and

keeping well clear of Catalina.

I have always been ambivalent about upgrading as the benefits have 
almost always been balanced by downsides


[ https://www.downside.co.uk/ ]

and, as I still use a BBC Model B computer (saving my work on an audio 
cassette) for tinkering around with
BBC BASIC in a way that seems direct and to the point: no GUI, boots in 
5 seconds., I am not automatically
a believer in the ever-upwards thing (remember, in Jacob's dream there 
were also being coming down the staircase).


As I, almost exclusively (well, except when I'm fooling myself about 
Devawriter Pro) develop humble
little programs for EFL kiddos for deployment on manky-franky old PCs 
running Xubuntu the need for Catalina
exists in no bigger way than the fact that I regret never having "had a 
bash" at Mount Everest.


As, at 57, I'm working my way towards being one of Jacque's "wrinklies", 
I suspect the shaking will be

elsewhere.

On 9.10.19 19:29, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
It may be too late for you, but last week I got an email from the 
company that makes my accounting software warning customers not to 
upgrade to Catalina. They said they've been working on the transition 
for a year and thought they'd finish in time but it didn't work out. 
They were quite up-front about it, said they were working hard and 
would let us know when it was ready.


That seemed thoughtful, and probably saved them a lot of tech support 
as well. On the other hand, I almost never upgrade to the first 
release of a major dot-zero version. I wait for the wrinkles to shake 
out.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 9, 2019 10:52:25 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Customer (at least ours) do not understand 32 bit vs 64-bit. They will
only know that (a) Apple says there is a new update for their computer
and they click to update; or (b) as a member of some university or
business, their computer is upgraded (perhaps at their request, perhaps
as part of a planned upgrade cycle).

In either case, after they or some IT person has helped with the OS
update, suddenly some of their software (including ours) no longer works
(being 32-bit). They don't know why. They don't care why.

Now as for the "Well, Apple has been notifying you forever that, as a
developer, you needed to be at 64 bits" or "But if you make your apps in
LiveCode, just recompile with LiveCode 9"

Our apps have hundreds of thousands of line of code. In migrating them
to LiveCode 9, at first they would not even run. In the course of
migrating, Researchware staff has filed some 40 Livecode 9 bugs, some of
which have no or no good workarounds, that directly impact features of
our apps. Thankfully, most have work-arounds, but work-arounds and
testing take time. Now for the record, LiveCode, Ltd. has been
absolutely great in suggesting work-arounds or helping us work through
the most serious of the bugs.

Our customers do not need 64 bits. Our very niche software does what it
needs to do in 32 bits. Our customer have no disk space issues or memory
issues due to both 32 and 64 bits libraries or support. Our customers
would all be very happy to just keep using our tools as is. Hence, my
venting is about Apple's intentionally planned obsolescence. What our
customers want in new versions is not 64 bit, but functional
enhancements to what our software does.

Being a small (very small), we have sunk a year of development in to
getting to LC9 for 64 bit and making sure what we have in our app just
works (QA testing!). We have had no resources to work on new or enhanced
features. So our customers get an upgrade, with almost nothing new
except 64 bit support, which also means with nothing new, we can't in
good conscious charge an upgrade fee for it. Which means lost revenue,
which badly hurts our small business.

Should we have migrated to LC9 sooner? Probably, but doing so would have
meant - as it does now - only doing the migration and not new
features/revenue. Also doing in now, we still found 40 bugs. If we did
it a year or two ago, how many more bugs would we have found that have
since been fixed!

That's what Catalina represents to us. I realize that many many Apple
customers will be delighted with Catalina and I am happy for them. I
just wish that Apple cared a bit more about not breaking what came
before. Say what you will about Microsoft, but I still have specialty
applications written for Windows 2000/XP that run fine under Windows 10!
Microsoft is guilty of many many sins, but **for the most part** they
try to keep things that once once worked still working.

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Re: macOS Notarization helper for Levure

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

You’re welcome Marty. Glad you like it.

Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 11:46 AM Marty Knapp via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> You won’t regret it Bob, Levure is a great framework. A big thanks (again)
> to Trevor.
>
> Marty
>
> > On Oct 9, 2019, at 9:39 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Brilliant. I really need to move to Levure. I'm going to have another go
> at it.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> >> On Oct 9, 2019, at 09:35 , Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> After reading the article by Matthias on notarization* I put together a
> >> helper for Levure that will notarize a DMG image when you package your
> >> Levure application. Here is the link:
> >>
> >> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-macos_notary
> >>
> >> To use it you will need to update to version 0.9.2 of Levure which I
> >> released today. Here are the release notes:
> >>
> >> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/releases/tag/v0.9.2.0
> >>
> >> If you need help creating a DMG of your app then the dropDMG helper can
> >> take care of that if you have dropDMG:
> >>
> >> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dropDMG
> >>
> >> Of course, someone could write a helper that uses Apple's command line
> >> tools to create a DMG as well.
> >>
> >> *
> >>
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1122100-codesigning-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore
> >>
> >> --
> >> Trevor DeVore
> >> ScreenSteps
> >> www.screensteps.com
> >
>
>
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Re: Catalina

[hh via use-livecode]

> Bob S. wrote:
> Can I just point out, to no one in particular on this list, that
> you don't HAVE TO UPGRADE TO CATALINA??? Apple did not cause your
> version of LC to become obsolete. YOU DID! 
> 
> Matthias R. wrote:
> Thanks Bot, i thought the same, but did not dare to write it.

It is just the same with new LiveCode versions.
So why did you both ever write about new LC versions?

New MacOS versions are often a downgrade in software speed
(measured relative to hardware speed). This time it is a BIG
downgrade. Just try yourself (but you don't have to ...).

The current Apple style is the 'fake-news-and-status' style:

For example the installer. For at about 45 minutes the estimated
time remaining is repeatedly calculated to 31 minutes and then
going down by one to 27 every ten minutes. This is 5bit computing,
not 64bit.

First everything has to be freshly indexed and cashed, of course.

But then, after *every* startup, the system seems to be ready
but doesn't respond for ten seconds. The same again with Mail,
etc., hopefully not with your standalones.


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RE: Building Android Apps

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

Peter,

This is because the Version Code(standalone setting==>Android) is
numerically lower than the currently installed version. Either up the
Version Code or uninstall/reinstall the app.

Other issue you can run into: (Inconsistent Signing error)
1) When doing "test" installs if you move to another PC/Mac/VM the "Test
Signing"(standalone setting==>Android) key pair is specific to the box. To
solve this you need to either go back to the original OS or
uninstall/reinstall the app.
2) If you install a Signed version over a Test Signed version or vice versa
you will get the same error. The solution is the same. Either use the same
signing or uninstall/reinstall the app.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Peter Reid via use-livecode
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2019 7:26 AM
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Cc: Peter Reid
Subject: Building Android Apps

I've been building Android apps using my iMac for some time. However,
yesterday I started to get an error message "Failure
[INSTALL_FAILED_VERSION_DOWNGRADE]" when I try to build an Android
standalone app. Any ideas what's causing this and how to fix it?

Separately I'd like to be able to build Android apps on my 15in MacBook Pro
so I can do on-the-fly fixes when out and about. However I can't find
up-to-date instructions for installing Android support. Some searches
produce various suggestions including LiveCode tutorials about setting up a
Mac to work with LiveCode and Android but they all seem to be out of date
and contradict each other. In addition there's no advice for how to get to a
clean state of Java and Android.

Can anyone point to up-to-date details for setting up a Mac to create
Android apps with minimal installation of supporting technologies, both as a
clean set-up and how to clean up JDK and SDK support if necessary?

Thanks

Peter
--
Peter Reid
Loughborough, UK


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Re: Catalina

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

On 10/9/2019 12:29 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
It may be too late for you, but last week I got an email from the 
company that makes my accounting software warning customers not to 
upgrade to Catalina. They said they've been working on the transition 
for a year and thought they'd finish in time but it didn't work out. 
They were quite up-front about it, said they were working hard and 
would let us know when it was ready.

Hah! We clearly use the SAME accounting software!

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Re: macOS Notarization helper for Levure

[Marty Knapp via use-livecode]

You won’t regret it Bob, Levure is a great framework. A big thanks (again) to 
Trevor.

Marty

> On Oct 9, 2019, at 9:39 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Brilliant. I really need to move to Levure. I'm going to have another go at 
> it. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Oct 9, 2019, at 09:35 , Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> After reading the article by Matthias on notarization* I put together a
>> helper for Levure that will notarize a DMG image when you package your
>> Levure application. Here is the link:
>> 
>> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-macos_notary
>> 
>> To use it you will need to update to version 0.9.2 of Levure which I
>> released today. Here are the release notes:
>> 
>> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/releases/tag/v0.9.2.0
>> 
>> If you need help creating a DMG of your app then the dropDMG helper can
>> take care of that if you have dropDMG:
>> 
>> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dropDMG
>> 
>> Of course, someone could write a helper that uses Apple's command line
>> tools to create a DMG as well.
>> 
>> *
>> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1122100-codesigning-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore
>> 
>> -- 
>> Trevor DeVore
>> ScreenSteps
>> www.screensteps.com
> 


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Re: Catalina

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

On 10/9/2019 12:02 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

It's a good point. If any commercial developers using LC (or ANY dev 
environment) are going to have issues with Catalina, it might be a good idea to 
mail blast them and warn them if your app is not going to be compatible, and 
even provide a general time frame for when they will be.


Yes, we unfortunately, already had to do that. And I hated having to 
send it out. We just could not quite make the timing. We have about a 
handful of bugs left to fix and QA and then we'll have our new release. 
I really regret not being done by Catalina, but we tried hard.


We, ourselves, use a popular Accounting software package that runs on 
OSX, who also email blasted us warning they were not quite 64 bit yet.


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Re: macOS Notarization helper for Levure

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Brilliant. I really need to move to Levure. I'm going to have another go at it. 

Bob S


> On Oct 9, 2019, at 09:35 , Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> After reading the article by Matthias on notarization* I put together a
> helper for Levure that will notarize a DMG image when you package your
> Levure application. Here is the link:
> 
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-macos_notary
> 
> To use it you will need to update to version 0.9.2 of Levure which I
> released today. Here are the release notes:
> 
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/releases/tag/v0.9.2.0
> 
> If you need help creating a DMG of your app then the dropDMG helper can
> take care of that if you have dropDMG:
> 
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dropDMG
> 
> Of course, someone could write a helper that uses Apple's command line
> tools to create a DMG as well.
> 
> *
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1122100-codesigning-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com


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Re: Catalina

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

+1 I don't either. Too old and scarred to brave those waters. 

Bob S


> On Oct 9, 2019, at 09:29 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> It may be too late for you, but last week I got an email from the company 
> that makes my accounting software warning customers not to upgrade to 
> Catalina. They said they've been working on the transition for a year and 
> thought they'd finish in time but it didn't work out. They were quite 
> up-front about it, said they were working hard and would let us know when it 
> was ready.
> 
> That seemed thoughtful, and probably saved them a lot of tech support as 
> well. On the other hand, I almost never upgrade to the first release of a 
> major dot-zero version. I wait for the wrinkles to shake out.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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macOS Notarization helper for Levure

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

Hi all,

After reading the article by Matthias on notarization* I put together a
helper for Levure that will notarize a DMG image when you package your
Levure application. Here is the link:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-macos_notary

To use it you will need to update to version 0.9.2 of Levure which I
released today. Here are the release notes:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/releases/tag/v0.9.2.0

If you need help creating a DMG of your app then the dropDMG helper can
take care of that if you have dropDMG:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dropDMG

Of course, someone could write a helper that uses Apple's command line
tools to create a DMG as well.

*
http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1122100-codesigning-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Re: Catalina

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

It may be too late for you, but last week I got an email from the company 
that makes my accounting software warning customers not to upgrade to 
Catalina. They said they've been working on the transition for a year and 
thought they'd finish in time but it didn't work out. They were quite 
up-front about it, said they were working hard and would let us know when 
it was ready.


That seemed thoughtful, and probably saved them a lot of tech support as 
well. On the other hand, I almost never upgrade to the first release of a 
major dot-zero version. I wait for the wrinkles to shake out.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 9, 2019 10:52:25 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Customer (at least ours) do not understand 32 bit vs 64-bit. They will
only know that (a) Apple says there is a new update for their computer
and they click to update; or (b) as a member of some university or
business, their computer is upgraded (perhaps at their request, perhaps
as part of a planned upgrade cycle).

In either case, after they or some IT person has helped with the OS
update, suddenly some of their software (including ours) no longer works
(being 32-bit). They don't know why. They don't care why.

Now as for the "Well, Apple has been notifying you forever that, as a
developer, you needed to be at 64 bits" or "But if you make your apps in
LiveCode, just recompile with LiveCode 9"

Our apps have hundreds of thousands of line of code. In migrating them
to LiveCode 9, at first they would not even run. In the course of
migrating, Researchware staff has filed some 40 Livecode 9 bugs, some of
which have no or no good workarounds, that directly impact features of
our apps. Thankfully, most have work-arounds, but work-arounds and
testing take time. Now for the record, LiveCode, Ltd. has been
absolutely great in suggesting work-arounds or helping us work through
the most serious of the bugs.

Our customers do not need 64 bits. Our very niche software does what it
needs to do in 32 bits. Our customer have no disk space issues or memory
issues due to both 32 and 64 bits libraries or support. Our customers
would all be very happy to just keep using our tools as is. Hence, my
venting is about Apple's intentionally planned obsolescence. What our
customers want in new versions is not 64 bit, but functional
enhancements to what our software does.

Being a small (very small), we have sunk a year of development in to
getting to LC9 for 64 bit and making sure what we have in our app just
works (QA testing!). We have had no resources to work on new or enhanced
features. So our customers get an upgrade, with almost nothing new
except 64 bit support, which also means with nothing new, we can't in
good conscious charge an upgrade fee for it. Which means lost revenue,
which badly hurts our small business.

Should we have migrated to LC9 sooner? Probably, but doing so would have
meant - as it does now - only doing the migration and not new
features/revenue. Also doing in now, we still found 40 bugs. If we did
it a year or two ago, how many more bugs would we have found that have
since been fixed!

That's what Catalina represents to us. I realize that many many Apple
customers will be delighted with Catalina and I am happy for them. I
just wish that Apple cared a bit more about not breaking what came
before. Say what you will about Microsoft, but I still have specialty
applications written for Windows 2000/XP that run fine under Windows 10!
Microsoft is guilty of many many sins, but **for the most part** they
try to keep things that once once worked still working.

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Re: Catalina

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

It's a good point. If any commercial developers using LC (or ANY dev 
environment) are going to have issues with Catalina, it might be a good idea to 
mail blast them and warn them if your app is not going to be compatible, and 
even provide a general time frame for when they will be. 

Also, I think the advice to make sure a full backup is made before a major OS 
update cannot be overstressed. Customers who fail to do this and then find that 
not only are LC 32 bit apps not going to run but a LOT of other apps won't 
either, and then have no way to revert, really need to bear some responsibility 
for this. 

I know that is not something you can tell a customer, but this issue is not 
unique to LC, so everyone who uses a computer at all, should already be aware 
of the issues that can arise when upgrading an entire OS. 

Bob S


> On Oct 9, 2019, at 08:50 , Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Customer (at least ours) do not understand 32 bit vs 64-bit. They will only 
> know that (a) Apple says there is a new update for their computer and they 
> click to update; or (b) as a member of some university or business, their 
> computer is upgraded (perhaps at their request, perhaps as part of a planned 
> upgrade cycle).


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Re: Questions about LC Server Apps

[Jjs via use-livecode]

@Ralf, is it possible you can put it on the forum as a zip? In the lc server 
section?

Ralf Bitter via use-livecode  schreef op 9 
oktober 2019 15:36:22 CEST:
>
>
>> On 9. Oct 2019, at 14:43, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
> wrote:
>> 
>> I remember reading about session management, and I believe it was in
>the Server Guide.  Do any of you have a copy?  That would save me from
>poking around through the old builds until I find it.
>> 
>> Once we have it we can put it back into place in the build system as
>it used to be.
>
>
>Richard, I found the “Server Deployment Release Notes” revision 18.
>It includes all you need to know about sessions using LC server.
>If that is what you are looking for I can send it to you.
>
>Ralf
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Re: Questions about LC Server Apps

[Jjs via use-livecode]

That would be great thanks!

Richard Gaskin via use-livecode  schreef op 9 
oktober 2019 14:43:35 CEST:
>Jjs wrote:
>
> > Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >> What functionality or topics would you like to see examples on?
> >
> > For example, how globals work between html pages like SESSIONS
> > variables do in PHP.
>
>It's quite similar to PHP IIRC, but I just went to look that up in the 
>Server Guide and made an important discovery:
>
>Apparently the Server Guide is no longer included in the Sever
>download.
>
>Instead there's a copy of the Release Notes named as though they're 
>specific to Server, but they don't seem to be.
>
>I remember reading about session management, and I believe it was in
>the 
>Server Guide.  Do any of you have a copy?  That would save me from 
>poking around through the old builds until I find it.
>
>Once we have it we can put it back into place in the build system as it
>
>used to be.
>
>
> > Or how values from buttons are picked up.
>
>LC Server and PHP live on the sever, while any buttons are in the 
>client's browser.  How do they communicate?  How would you do what you 
>need there with PHP?
>
>This one may help:
>
>  How do I handle user input using LiveCode Server?
>http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4070/l/36650-how-do-i-handle-user-input-using-livecode-server
>
>
> > I'm not unwilling to use it, but most servers already have php
> > installed and therefore it is easier to use might one need to move
> > to another server. The more when it is a shared hosting. Mostly
> > they do not allow installation of lc server.
>
>Which hosts have you found disallow custom CGIs like LC Server?
>
>I used to see that back in the old Perl-and-PHP-only days, but as more 
>folks have been usin Python, Ruby, and other languages, I find hosts 
>have warmed to the modern multilingual world.
>
>If you recall one that doesn't maybe I can convince them to consider
>it. 
>:)  I've had good luck with that with some ISPs.
>
>
> > Finding do many examples on html and php shortens the time to build
> > it.
>
>The HTML knowledge will be the same, but yes, PHP has been on servers
>so 
>much longer it definitely has more docs.  That's why I'm keen to learn 
>more about what you were looking for with those.  Bit by bit we can 
>flesh out the edges of the LC ecosystem to better reflect its new 
>position in the Top 50 programming languages.
>
>-- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
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Re: Building Android Apps

[Jjs via use-livecode]

It means you are trying to install or push a build with lower version or 
version code than the one already on it. If it still not works after changing 
your app version, then remove it from the device and then push it to it again.

Peter Reid via use-livecode  schreef op 9 
oktober 2019 13:25:56 CEST:
>I've been building Android apps using my iMac for some time. However,
>yesterday I started to get an error message "Failure
>[INSTALL_FAILED_VERSION_DOWNGRADE]" when I try to build an Android
>standalone app. Any ideas what's causing this and how to fix it?
>
>Separately I'd like to be able to build Android apps on my 15in MacBook
>Pro so I can do on-the-fly fixes when out and about. However I can't
>find up-to-date instructions for installing Android support. Some
>searches produce various suggestions including LiveCode tutorials about
>setting up a Mac to work with LiveCode and Android but they all seem to
>be out of date and contradict each other. In addition there's no advice
>for how to get to a clean state of Java and Android.
>
>Can anyone point to up-to-date details for setting up a Mac to create
>Android apps with minimal installation of supporting technologies, both
>as a clean set-up and how to clean up JDK and SDK support if necessary?
>
>Thanks
>
>Peter
>--
>Peter Reid
>Loughborough, UK
>
>
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Re: Catalina

[Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode]

Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
InstaMaker 
WinSignMaker Mac 
> Am 09.10.2019 um 17:16 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Can I just point out, to no one in particular on this list, that you don't 
> HAVE TO UPGRADE TO CATALINA??? Apple did not cause your version of LC to 
> become obsolete. YOU DID! 
> 
Thanks Bot, i thought the same, but did not dare to write it.



>> On Oct 8, 2019, at 18:52 , hh via use-livecode 
>> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> "Catalina is a girl's name of Spanish origin meaning 'pure'".
>> What a beautiful sounding name!
>> 
>> But MacOS Catalina is a pure killer. Killed my beloved LC 6/7
>> (I need for development of Raspi stacks) and sometimes need
>> for speed.
>> 
>> I learned LiveCode using LC 6 in 2013.
>> TMHO, LC 6.7.11 was the most complete LC version ever made.
>> 
>> May be I'll use one older machine only for using LC 6/7.
>> But it's kind of a burial.   :-((
>> 
>> 
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Re: Catalina

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

Customer (at least ours) do not understand 32 bit vs 64-bit. They will 
only know that (a) Apple says there is a new update for their computer 
and they click to update; or (b) as a member of some university or 
business, their computer is upgraded (perhaps at their request, perhaps 
as part of a planned upgrade cycle).


In either case, after they or some IT person has helped with the OS 
update, suddenly some of their software (including ours) no longer works 
(being 32-bit). They don't know why. They don't care why.


Now as for the "Well, Apple has been notifying you forever that, as a 
developer, you needed to be at 64 bits" or "But if you make your apps in 
LiveCode, just recompile with LiveCode 9"


Our apps have hundreds of thousands of line of code. In migrating them 
to LiveCode 9, at first they would not even run. In the course of 
migrating, Researchware staff has filed some 40 Livecode 9 bugs, some of 
which have no or no good workarounds, that directly impact features of 
our apps. Thankfully, most have work-arounds, but work-arounds and 
testing take time. Now for the record, LiveCode, Ltd. has been 
absolutely great in suggesting work-arounds or helping us work through 
the most serious of the bugs.


Our customers do not need 64 bits. Our very niche software does what it 
needs to do in 32 bits. Our customer have no disk space issues or memory 
issues due to both 32 and 64 bits libraries or support. Our customers 
would all be very happy to just keep using our tools as is. Hence, my 
venting is about Apple's intentionally planned obsolescence. What our 
customers want in new versions is not 64 bit, but functional 
enhancements to what our software does.


Being a small (very small), we have sunk a year of development in to 
getting to LC9 for 64 bit and making sure what we have in our app just 
works (QA testing!). We have had no resources to work on new or enhanced 
features. So our customers get an upgrade, with almost nothing new 
except 64 bit support, which also means with nothing new, we can't in 
good conscious charge an upgrade fee for it. Which means lost revenue, 
which badly hurts our small business.


Should we have migrated to LC9 sooner? Probably, but doing so would have 
meant - as it does now - only doing the migration and not new 
features/revenue. Also doing in now, we still found 40 bugs. If we did 
it a year or two ago, how many more bugs would we have found that have 
since been fixed!


That's what Catalina represents to us. I realize that many many Apple 
customers will be delighted with Catalina and I am happy for them. I 
just wish that Apple cared a bit more about not breaking what came 
before. Say what you will about Microsoft, but I still have specialty 
applications written for Windows 2000/XP that run fine under Windows 10! 
Microsoft is guilty of many many sins, but **for the most part** they 
try to keep things that once once worked still working.


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Re: Catalina

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

Ah yes, backups.  I make it a habit to capture an image of my drive before and 
after any OS upgrade.  CCC works well, but I just use Apple’s tools.

Thanks,
Brian
On Oct 9, 2019, 11:19 AM -0400, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> I forgot to mention that if you didn't already create a CCC full backup or a 
> Time Machine backup prior to the upgrade... well... there's that.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Oct 9, 2019, at 08:16 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Can I just point out, to no one in particular on this list, that you don't 
> > HAVE TO UPGRADE TO CATALINA??? Apple did not cause your version of LC to 
> > become obsolete. YOU DID!
> >
> > That being said, you can probably downgrade, especially if your hardware is 
> > so old that you still have instalation DVDs for it. If not, there are 
> > articles on how to downgrade. Carbon Copy Cloner will be your friend if you 
> > have to wipe and reinstall to make that happen.
> >
> > Bob S
>
>
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Re: De-Combine: stupid question number 4732

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

Or use ArrayToJSON and JSONtoArray. This is my preferred method (that is not 
available for HTML5 deployment yet, hence the Split/CombineTable functions). 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Prod Ltd

> On 9 Oct 2019, at 16:21, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> In addition to other suggestions, you can "store" a multidimensional array 
> in a hidden datagrid, then get or set the dgData or the dgText. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Oct 9, 2019, at 05:40 , Richmond via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> So: I have a socking-great multidimensional array that I display in a table 
>> field by using
>> 
>> combine
>> 
>> as in:
>> 
>> combine myGUFF using return and tab
>> put myGUFF into field "completeGUFF"
>> 
>> but then I realise I want to go on working with my array "myGUFF"
>> but as it has been turned into some sort of delimited text variable
>> I need to convert it back to an array . . .
>> 
>> Richmond.
>> 
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Re: De-Combine: stupid question number 4732

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

In addition to other suggestions, you can "store" a multidimensional array in a 
hidden datagrid, then get or set the dgData or the dgText. 

Bob S


> On Oct 9, 2019, at 05:40 , Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> So: I have a socking-great multidimensional array that I display in a table 
> field by using
> 
> combine
> 
> as in:
> 
> combine myGUFF using return and tab
> put myGUFF into field "completeGUFF"
> 
> but then I realise I want to go on working with my array "myGUFF"
> but as it has been turned into some sort of delimited text variable
> I need to convert it back to an array . . .
> 
> Richmond.
> 
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Re: Catalina

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I forgot to mention that if you didn't already create a CCC full backup or a 
Time Machine backup prior to the upgrade... well... there's that. 

Bob S


> On Oct 9, 2019, at 08:16 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Can I just point out, to no one in particular on this list, that you don't 
> HAVE TO UPGRADE TO CATALINA??? Apple did not cause your version of LC to 
> become obsolete. YOU DID! 
> 
> That being said, you can probably downgrade, especially if your hardware is 
> so old that you still have instalation DVDs for it. If not, there are 
> articles on how to downgrade. Carbon Copy Cloner will be your friend if you 
> have to wipe and reinstall to make that happen. 
> 
> Bob S


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Re: Catalina

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Can I just point out, to no one in particular on this list, that you don't HAVE 
TO UPGRADE TO CATALINA??? Apple did not cause your version of LC to become 
obsolete. YOU DID! 

That being said, you can probably downgrade, especially if your hardware is so 
old that you still have instalation DVDs for it. If not, there are articles on 
how to downgrade. Carbon Copy Cloner will be your friend if you have to wipe 
and reinstall to make that happen. 

Bob S


> On Oct 8, 2019, at 18:52 , hh via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> "Catalina is a girl's name of Spanish origin meaning 'pure'".
> What a beautiful sounding name!
> 
> But MacOS Catalina is a pure killer. Killed my beloved LC 6/7
> (I need for development of Raspi stacks) and sometimes need
> for speed.
> 
> I learned LiveCode using LC 6 in 2013.
> TMHO, LC 6.7.11 was the most complete LC version ever made.
> 
> May be I'll use one older machine only for using LC 6/7.
> But it's kind of a burial.   :-((
> 
> 
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Re: Building Android Apps

[Heather Laine via use-livecode]

Peter -

This is intended as the definitive and up to date guide to getting set up for 
Android app building with LiveCode:

http://lessons.livecode.com/m/2571/l/625198-livecode-and-android-studio 


If it is not up to date, if you try it and fail, if you get some mysterious 
error etc please leave a comment on the lesson. We will investigate and update 
the lesson if needed.

Best Regards,

Heather


Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 9 Oct 2019, at 12:25, Peter Reid via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I've been building Android apps using my iMac for some time. However, 
> yesterday I started to get an error message "Failure 
> [INSTALL_FAILED_VERSION_DOWNGRADE]" when I try to build an Android standalone 
> app. Any ideas what's causing this and how to fix it?
> 
> Separately I'd like to be able to build Android apps on my 15in MacBook Pro 
> so I can do on-the-fly fixes when out and about. However I can't find 
> up-to-date instructions for installing Android support. Some searches produce 
> various suggestions including LiveCode tutorials about setting up a Mac to 
> work with LiveCode and Android but they all seem to be out of date and 
> contradict each other. In addition there's no advice for how to get to a 
> clean state of Java and Android.
> 
> Can anyone point to up-to-date details for setting up a Mac to create Android 
> apps with minimal installation of supporting technologies, both as a clean 
> set-up and how to clean up JDK and SDK support if necessary?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Peter
> --
> Peter Reid
> Loughborough, UK
> 
> 
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Building Android Apps

[Peter Reid via use-livecode]

I've been building Android apps using my iMac for some time. However, yesterday 
I started to get an error message "Failure [INSTALL_FAILED_VERSION_DOWNGRADE]" 
when I try to build an Android standalone app. Any ideas what's causing this 
and how to fix it?

Separately I'd like to be able to build Android apps on my 15in MacBook Pro so 
I can do on-the-fly fixes when out and about. However I can't find up-to-date 
instructions for installing Android support. Some searches produce various 
suggestions including LiveCode tutorials about setting up a Mac to work with 
LiveCode and Android but they all seem to be out of date and contradict each 
other. In addition there's no advice for how to get to a clean state of Java 
and Android.

Can anyone point to up-to-date details for setting up a Mac to create Android 
apps with minimal installation of supporting technologies, both as a clean 
set-up and how to clean up JDK and SDK support if necessary?

Thanks

Peter
--
Peter Reid
Loughborough, UK


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Re: Give a bug a hug

[Jjs via use-livecode]

I think i miss some understanding from my part. Sqlite is supported and working 
ok right. So what's this with this library?  Then second, Heather said that 
things now in FM will flow back into lc.

Pi Digital via use-livecode  schreef op 9 
oktober 2019 14:53:16 CEST:
>Can you provide the full link to the SQLite feature that was funded?
>
>Sean Cole
>Pi Digital Prod Ltd
>
>> On 9 Oct 2019, at 13:47, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
> wrote:
>> 
>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode
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-- 
Verstuurd vanaf mijn Android apparaat met K-9 Mail.
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Re: Give a bug a hug

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

+1 Richard. I got onboard with what user to be Runtime Revolution (I think it 
was version 2!) Where livecode is today is orders of magnitude more than it was 
when it first started. There was no datagrid. No way to display tabular data 
apart from a very simple table field. No arrays. Difficult and confusing 
database APIs. No mobile support. The list goes on. 

LC is like a really good girlfriend. She isn't everything I ever wanted, but 
she's good enough for me. :-)

Bob S


> On Oct 8, 2019, at 19:49 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Pi Digital wrote:
> 
> >> On 8 Oct 2019, at 21:42, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >>
> >> And here is a May 2016 update:
> >>
> >> https://livecode.com/trevor-devore-interviews-kevin-mark-on-infinite-livecode/
> >>
> >>
> >> A small number of people keep going round and round on this a large
> >> number of times.
> >>
> >> How many times will the same conversation happen before more recent
> >> information is absorbed?
> >
> > An excellent article. Which part was you pointing to in reference to
> > Lagi’s question about older campaigns funded that have still not met
> > the core?
> 
> There's a section in the middle listing off the accomplishments since the 
> Kickstarter, and some of the discussion goes into how much of that was paid 
> for out-of-pocket.
> 
> 
> > And which part do you refer to when asserting that absorption of info
> > is needed to reduce the same conversations recursion rate?
> 
> The portion of Lagi's post I had originally quoted in my reply:
> 
>This is what I was talking about being treated like mushrooms
>- no communication as to what the future holds.- rough timescales
>as to when new or reassigned resources will be implemented - what
>is the intention with sqlite, 2d physics, Audio 
> 
> He's one of about three people who keep going back to the Kickstarter list as 
> some form of eternal damnation against the team, and he knows that I know 
> that he's read comments here and in the forums from Kevin and other team 
> members that have discussed all of that over and over and over and over again.
> 
> How many times does Kevin need to post a mea culpa about being among the 80% 
> of software project leaders that underestimated cost?  Apparently half a 
> dozen isn't enough.
> 
> In summary: Most of the list was delivered, most of the remainder is in the 
> DB as feature requests to be completed as resources permit.
> 
> 
> Kevin, Heather, Mark and others have been very forthcoming here about what 
> the company is working on, at least to the degree that this community allows. 
>  But there's not much allowance granted:
> 
> As they've explained many times, they've joined the majority of companies 
> less willing to offer loose projections about delivery times precisely 
> because of things like this.  If they give a projected deadline and 
> circumstances change, it will become a dominant and repeated theme among a 
> very small but very vocal minority.  This isn't unique to LC; their previous 
> candor was a distinction.  Now they operate like everyone else, because the 
> moment they dare to discuss anything not already in the can they expose 
> themselves to a continuation of this same tediousness that every other 
> company figured out how to avoid by keeping cards close.
> 
> Wanna know what Apple's working on for 2020? Good luck.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: Catalina

[Richmond via use-livecode]

I'm an "Apple fanatic", so much so that I have to have these:

1. 2018 MacMini for up to date stuff.

2. 64-bit Intel iMac.

3. 32-bit Intel iMac.

4. G5 iMac.

Because Apple with their obsession for making things obsolescent have left
me with an awful lot of very useful software that I have paid for (or 
been paid with)
that I still wish to use, but could not were I always to use the "latest 
and greatest."


My Spreadsheet-of-choice is still the one in ClarisWorks/AppleWorks 6.

Bryce 7 doesn't work on a computer running anything later than Mac OS 
10.6.8.


HyperCard runs under the "Classic" thing on Mac OS 10.4.11 on one of my 
2 G5 iMacs.


My "main beef" with Apple is their planned obsolescence linked with 
their expensive hardware

means that while they can build fancy ring-shaped buildings . . .

Ok, OK, let's have an irrelevant fact here just to distract ourselves 
from Apple's perfidy:


The famous Scottish film star David Niven introduced water-skiing to the 
United States off Catalina island.


On 9.10.19 17:17, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:

Agree!

With all the billions of $$$ Apple has, they certainly could have 
afforded to maintain 32-bit compatibility for smaller developers who 
can't afford to make every change Apple demands, but they make more 
profits if they don't.


Sorry to any Apple fanatics. I just needed to vent my frustration at 
Apple's dictatorial development model.


On 10/8/2019 9:52 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote:

"Catalina is a girl's name of Spanish origin meaning 'pure'".
What a beautiful sounding name!

But MacOS Catalina is a pure killer. Killed my beloved LC 6/7
(I need for development of Raspi stacks) and sometimes need
for speed.

I learned LiveCode using LC 6 in 2013.
TMHO, LC 6.7.11 was the most complete LC version ever made.

May be I'll use one older machine only for using LC 6/7.
But it's kind of a burial.   :-((


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Re: Catalina

[Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode]

So, maybe I’m an Apple fanatic but here goes…

By dropping 32-bit support Apple doesn’t need to update 2 pairs of system 
libraries, as most 32-bit applications requires 32-bit libraries to work. Thus 
it would also be possible to save some disk space (as I only need 64-bit). This 
also means that the system doesn’t need to keep two versions of a library in 
memory. I.e. I will save RAM in my machine. And of course the developers needed 
to maintain the 32-bit libs can now concentrate on other things. Yes, I know 
Apple has more  than several countries, but they still lack good engineers 
in many areas.

But, yes, old 32-bit only versions of apps like old versions of LiveCode will 
stop working. But, if you have a newer version of LiveCode there is not that 
much work that needs to be done to turn your app into a 64-bit version. If you 
are lucky you just do a new “Save as stand-alone”. If you are not that lucky 
you might need to rewrite some code, but I must say that LiveCode have done a 
great job being backwards compatible. I can still open several HyperCard stacks 
in LiveCode!

On top of that you I can run older versions of MacOS in a virtual machine (like 
Parallels Desktop) if I really need to. Or I can keep an old installation on a 
separate hard drive and boot from that when needed.

Just installed Catalina, so tomorrow I might think totally different ;)

:-Håkan
On 9 Oct 2019, 16:18 +0200, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Agree!
>
> With all the billions of $$$ Apple has, they certainly could have
> afforded to maintain 32-bit compatibility for smaller developers who
> can't afford to make every change Apple demands, but they make more
> profits if they don't.
>
> Sorry to any Apple fanatics. I just needed to vent my frustration at
> Apple's dictatorial development model.
>
> On 10/8/2019 9:52 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote:
> > "Catalina is a girl's name of Spanish origin meaning 'pure'".
> > What a beautiful sounding name!
> >
> > But MacOS Catalina is a pure killer. Killed my beloved LC 6/7
> > (I need for development of Raspi stacks) and sometimes need
> > for speed.
> >
> > I learned LiveCode using LC 6 in 2013.
> > TMHO, LC 6.7.11 was the most complete LC version ever made.
> >
> > May be I'll use one older machine only for using LC 6/7.
> > But it's kind of a burial. :-((
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > subscription preferences:
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>
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Re: Catalina

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

I’m not sure about profits of 64bit other than they now don’t have to pay a 
separate team to keep maintaining out of date 32bit support. 

Here’s a list of alternative options. I personally am going to have Parallels 
with Mojave and SnowLeopard available (as well as Win10, 7 and Ubuntu and 
Raspbian of course). 

https://macpaw.com/how-to/32-bit-apps-not-working-catalina

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Prod Ltd

> On 9 Oct 2019, at 15:17, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> they make more profits if they don't
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Re: Stop Processing a Web Connection

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

Charles responded off list, this may be useful to others:

=

Unfortunately tsNet doesn’t get involved in the browser widget’s network 
communications, so I can’t help there...

However, the best way to stop UI hangs is to use the tsNet asynchronous 
(non-blocking) functions so that all network calls happen in the background and 
let tsNet send a message to the application when the transfer is complete.

While this does require some changes to your application design, it removes any 
dependancy on a network transfer completing for the application to continue to 
operate.

You can also use the tsNetCloseConn function with the asynchronous commands to 
cancel a network transfer in progress.

Hope that helps,

Regards,

Charles


I think I have found a bug in our mobile app…. which is that:

If there is poor bandwidth, say, when the user is trying to get a video in  the 
browser widget, or the there is a direct call for other resources from our API 
(images, audio for player, big XML/Json. etc)  the UI hangs. They click a "Go 
Back" button, but it think that app is trying to (unsuccessufully) process the 
connection

Now users are typically aware that they have bandwidth issues. For now I don’t 
want to complicate things by using "tsNetSetTimeouts" to give the user detailed 
info--maybe in a later version. 

I just want  have them to disconnect as soon as they touch a button, typically 
a "go back" button.

I keep a TSNET api document at my side. I only  find two options, as soon as 
the user says in their mind "I going to bail on this" and hit something, should 
we use:

tsNetclose

tsNetLibUrlReuseConnection false

?

Any other suggestions on the general architecture to address this scenario will 
also be appreciated.

BR

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Re: Get Definition

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

As Jacqueline said, on init the app puts all models, and libraries in using….

If you using a stack that has behaviors, they are "naturally" open when because 
the stack, cards open. I need to check,

Yes, BBEdit or Sublime or  Atom works fine…




On 10/8/19 5:30 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> I’ve noticed it on that project as well, but have not narrowed down the 
> symptoms.  I know that the definition is available at times and will need to 
> look at it.  I have a project set up in Atom that makes searching the stack 
> only scripts easy.

...otherwise known as grep 

--
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
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Re: Catalina

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

Agree!

With all the billions of $$$ Apple has, they certainly could have 
afforded to maintain 32-bit compatibility for smaller developers who 
can't afford to make every change Apple demands, but they make more 
profits if they don't.


Sorry to any Apple fanatics. I just needed to vent my frustration at 
Apple's dictatorial development model.


On 10/8/2019 9:52 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote:

"Catalina is a girl's name of Spanish origin meaning 'pure'".
What a beautiful sounding name!

But MacOS Catalina is a pure killer. Killed my beloved LC 6/7
(I need for development of Raspi stacks) and sometimes need
for speed.

I learned LiveCode using LC 6 in 2013.
TMHO, LC 6.7.11 was the most complete LC version ever made.

May be I'll use one older machine only for using LC 6/7.
But it's kind of a burial.   :-((


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Re: De-Combine: stupid question number 4732

[Richmond via use-livecode]

Thanks! That's great.

On 9.10.19 15:48, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:

Hi Richmond,


Am 09.10.2019 um 14:40 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode 
:

So: I have a socking-great multidimensional array that I display in a table 
field by using
combine
as in:
combine myGUFF using return and tab
put myGUFF into field "completeGUFF"
but then I realise I want to go on working with my array "myGUFF"
but as it has been turned into some sort of delimited text variable
I need to convert it back to an array . . .
Richmond.

the opposite of COMBINE= SPLIT


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Questions about LC Server Apps

[Ralf Bitter via use-livecode]

> On 9. Oct 2019, at 14:43, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I remember reading about session management, and I believe it was in the 
> Server Guide.  Do any of you have a copy?  That would save me from poking 
> around through the old builds until I find it.
> 
> Once we have it we can put it back into place in the build system as it used 
> to be.


Richard, I found the “Server Deployment Release Notes” revision 18.
It includes all you need to know about sessions using LC server.
If that is what you are looking for I can send it to you.

Ralf
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Re: De-Combine: stupid question number 4732

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

I wrote and use this. Is it any use to you?:

function splitTable pData, pDel
   set the itemdel to pDel
   repeat with rNum = 1 to the number of lines in pData
  put item 2 to 50 of line 1 of pData into tListA[item 1 of pData]
  delete line 1 of pData
   end repeat
   return tListA
end splitTable

Sean Cole
*Pi Digital *
'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no
box!'
'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of,
but it is yourself!'

eMail Ts & Cs    Pi Digital
Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609


On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 at 13:55, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Richmond wrote:
>
> > So: I have a socking-great multidimensional array that I display in a
> > table field by using
> >
> > combine
> >
> > as in:
> >
> > combine myGUFF using return and tab
> > put myGUFF into field "completeGUFF"
> >
> > but then I realise I want to go on working with my array "myGUFF"
> > but as it has been turned into some sort of delimited text variable
> > I need to convert it back to an array . . .
>
> Multidimensional arrays don't lend themselves well to tabular
> presentation or the split/combine commands.
>
> But if all you're looking for is display, would the tree widget help?
>
> You can assign any array to the widget's arrayData, with some handy
> options in the Inspector for how things are displayed.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   
>   ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
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Re: De-Combine: stupid question number 4732

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Richmond wrote:

So: I have a socking-great multidimensional array that I display in a 
table field by using


combine

as in:

combine myGUFF using return and tab
put myGUFF into field "completeGUFF"

but then I realise I want to go on working with my array "myGUFF"
but as it has been turned into some sort of delimited text variable
I need to convert it back to an array . . .


Multidimensional arrays don't lend themselves well to tabular 
presentation or the split/combine commands.


But if all you're looking for is display, would the tree widget help?

You can assign any array to the widget's arrayData, with some handy 
options in the Inspector for how things are displayed.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Give a bug a hug

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

Can you provide the full link to the SQLite feature that was funded?

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Prod Ltd

> On 9 Oct 2019, at 13:47, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode
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Re: Give a bug a hug

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Lagi Pittas -

> I don't want to get into a Slanging match and I would never make it
> personal. but  we were never even given a basic system to enhance -
> I Quote
>
> "Finally, remember, that this will all be open source code, built and
> included in the community edition – you will be able to take it, adapt
> it and help improve it!"


https://github.com/livecode/livecode

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Questions about LC Server Apps

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Jjs wrote:

> Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> What functionality or topics would you like to see examples on?
>
> For example, how globals work between html pages like SESSIONS
> variables do in PHP.

It's quite similar to PHP IIRC, but I just went to look that up in the 
Server Guide and made an important discovery:


Apparently the Server Guide is no longer included in the Sever download.

Instead there's a copy of the Release Notes named as though they're 
specific to Server, but they don't seem to be.


I remember reading about session management, and I believe it was in the 
Server Guide.  Do any of you have a copy?  That would save me from 
poking around through the old builds until I find it.


Once we have it we can put it back into place in the build system as it 
used to be.



> Or how values from buttons are picked up.

LC Server and PHP live on the sever, while any buttons are in the 
client's browser.  How do they communicate?  How would you do what you 
need there with PHP?


This one may help:

 How do I handle user input using LiveCode Server?
http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4070/l/36650-how-do-i-handle-user-input-using-livecode-server


> I'm not unwilling to use it, but most servers already have php
> installed and therefore it is easier to use might one need to move
> to another server. The more when it is a shared hosting. Mostly
> they do not allow installation of lc server.

Which hosts have you found disallow custom CGIs like LC Server?

I used to see that back in the old Perl-and-PHP-only days, but as more 
folks have been usin Python, Ruby, and other languages, I find hosts 
have warmed to the modern multilingual world.


If you recall one that doesn't maybe I can convince them to consider it. 
:)  I've had good luck with that with some ISPs.



> Finding do many examples on html and php shortens the time to build
> it.

The HTML knowledge will be the same, but yes, PHP has been on servers so 
much longer it definitely has more docs.  That's why I'm keen to learn 
more about what you were looking for with those.  Bit by bit we can 
flesh out the edges of the LC ecosystem to better reflect its new 
position in the Top 50 programming languages.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Give a bug a hug

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Hi Richard,

I don't want to get into a Slanging match and I would never make it
personal.
but  we were never even given a basic system to enhance - I Quote

"Finally, remember, that this will all be open source code, built and
included in the community edition – you will be able to take it, adapt it
and help improve it!"

Now as you says let's move on

Sincere Regards Lagi



On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 at 13:29, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Lagi Pittas wrote:
>
>  > I did absorb that - nearly 3 years ago - QED.
>
> It's three years more recent than the old list you keep raising.
>
>
>  > My major itch is the crowdfunding SPECIFICALLY for Sqlite
>
> Thank you! Specifics are the only way things can become actionable.
>
> What needs to be done with SqLite?
>
>
>  > with a manual and all that.
>
> What should be considered within the scope of the manual?  LC itself is
> pretty well documented these days, as is SqLite.  What gap should we fill?
>
> SqLite is very popular in our community.  I suspect it will not be hard
> to gather resources for a docs project like this once we define what it
> should cover.
>
>
>  > I respect your opinions but if 2016 is the latest "main update",
>  > then  we have a difference of opinion on what good communication is.
>
> Yes, your reference to old materials being less than desirable is noted,
> which is why the fixation on a list twice as old is mystifying.
>
> This mystery deepens considering the many discussions here and in the
> forums about the Kickstarter list in which you were a participant.  This
> has been covered, every several months, with the latest round being just
> a few months ago. I'm done repeating that conversation.
>
> Moving forward...
>
> Let's define specific actionable needs, and see what resources are
> needed to put them into place.
>
> As an external, SqLite is particularly well suited for a wider range of
> people to update.  And as a popular component, we should be able to find
> the resources to enhance it.
>
> If you would please describe what needs to be done in terms of
> functionality and docs, let's make it so.
>
>
>  > I still think LC has more to recommend it than Xojo, B4X, HAX,
>  > Python...
>
> We have that in common, and I hope we always do.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   
>   ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
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Re: Give a bug a hug

[Keith Martin via use-livecode]

I'm less than convinced by the crowdfunding ideas that have been 
mentioned so far. But there is something that is important to 
understand:


1. All Kickstarter campaigns are 'all-or-nothing.' From the Kickstarter 
FAQ: "No one will be charged for a pledge towards a project unless it 
reaches its funding goal."


2. Indiegogo campaigns are EITHER 'flexible funding' (the money is taken 
whether or not the goal was reached) OR 'fixed funding' (the same as 
Kickstarter).


Whether or not a crowdfunding angle is a good idea is a different issue. 
I just wanted to clarify the point about campaign goals and funding 
levels.


k
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De-Combine: stupid question number 4732

[Richmond via use-livecode]

So: I have a socking-great multidimensional array that I display in a 
table field by using


combine

as in:

combine myGUFF using return and tab
put myGUFF into field "completeGUFF"

but then I realise I want to go on working with my array "myGUFF"
but as it has been turned into some sort of delimited text variable
I need to convert it back to an array . . .

Richmond.

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Live code for Filemaker 1.3 launched today

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Just to bolster what I said

https://filemaker.livecode.com/lcfm-native-1-3-faster-android-graphics-and-35-improvements/


And it has nice upgrades to the ExecuteSQL function talk about rubbing salt
in the wound.

I rest my case

Will that be put into the main system - if not why not? We could then have
(almost) the equivalent of Foxpro - where
we could intersperse  SQL statements within Foxpro statements and the
system looking after all the table pointers pointers.
Don't need promises or timescales just Yes or No  and reasons - again
nobody has answered.

Will the data binding code that must have been created for LCFM ever come
to LCs main branch - theoretically all the code is done and debugged  "all"
that would be needed is inserting into the main LC branch
I  would certainly fund something like that.


Lagi
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Re: Give a bug a hug

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Lagi Pittas wrote:

> I did absorb that - nearly 3 years ago - QED.

It's three years more recent than the old list you keep raising.


> My major itch is the crowdfunding SPECIFICALLY for Sqlite

Thank you! Specifics are the only way things can become actionable.

What needs to be done with SqLite?


> with a manual and all that.

What should be considered within the scope of the manual?  LC itself is 
pretty well documented these days, as is SqLite.  What gap should we fill?


SqLite is very popular in our community.  I suspect it will not be hard 
to gather resources for a docs project like this once we define what it 
should cover.



> I respect your opinions but if 2016 is the latest "main update",
> then  we have a difference of opinion on what good communication is.

Yes, your reference to old materials being less than desirable is noted, 
which is why the fixation on a list twice as old is mystifying.


This mystery deepens considering the many discussions here and in the 
forums about the Kickstarter list in which you were a participant.  This 
has been covered, every several months, with the latest round being just 
a few months ago. I'm done repeating that conversation.


Moving forward...

Let's define specific actionable needs, and see what resources are 
needed to put them into place.


As an external, SqLite is particularly well suited for a wider range of 
people to update.  And as a popular component, we should be able to find 
the resources to enhance it.


If you would please describe what needs to be done in terms of 
functionality and docs, let's make it so.



> I still think LC has more to recommend it than Xojo, B4X, HAX,
> Python...

We have that in common, and I hope we always do.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Give a bug a hug

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Now I'm a little peeved.

Richard said 
"He's one of about three people who keep going back to the Kickstarter
list as some form of eternal damnation against the team, "

Forget about the kickstarter - I will say it one more time

There was crowd funding for a new Sqlite library  with a timescale of 3
months (lets assume i'm wrong -  6 months - whose counting) running at the
same time as that "update" of 2016.
Even if they were a year late that would be understandable but producing
nothing at all smacks of taking from Peter to pay Paul (there I said it).

Richard I understand that LC for FM is what they are betting the farm on
and I agree with them - I am just asking for some transparency - resources
allocated.
I'm not stupid to think that a small team can do everything promised  but
would 1 person allocated to finishing off all the other stuff be too much
too ask?

Lagi

On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 at 03:57, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Pi Digital wrote:
>
>  >> On 8 Oct 2019, at 21:42, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>  >>
>  >> And here is a May 2016 update:
>  >>
>  >>
>
> https://livecode.com/trevor-devore-interviews-kevin-mark-on-infinite-livecode/
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> A small number of people keep going round and round on this a large
>  >> number of times.
>  >>
>  >> How many times will the same conversation happen before more recent
>  >> information is absorbed?
>  >
>  > An excellent article. Which part was you pointing to in reference to
>  > Lagi’s question about older campaigns funded that have still not met
>  > the core?
>
> There's a section in the middle listing off the accomplishments since
> the Kickstarter, and some of the discussion goes into how much of that
> was paid for out-of-pocket.
>
>
>  > And which part do you refer to when asserting that absorption of info
>  > is needed to reduce the same conversations recursion rate?
>
> The portion of Lagi's post I had originally quoted in my reply:
>
>  This is what I was talking about being treated like mushrooms
>  - no communication as to what the future holds.- rough timescales
>  as to when new or reassigned resources will be implemented - what
>  is the intention with sqlite, 2d physics, Audio 
>
> He's one of about three people who keep going back to the Kickstarter
> list as some form of eternal damnation against the team, and he knows
> that I know that he's read comments here and in the forums from Kevin
> and other team members that have discussed all of that over and over and
> over and over again.
>
> How many times does Kevin need to post a mea culpa about being among the
> 80% of software project leaders that underestimated cost?  Apparently
> half a dozen isn't enough.
>
> In summary: Most of the list was delivered, most of the remainder is in
> the DB as feature requests to be completed as resources permit.
>
>
> Kevin, Heather, Mark and others have been very forthcoming here about
> what the company is working on, at least to the degree that this
> community allows.  But there's not much allowance granted:
>
> As they've explained many times, they've joined the majority of
> companies less willing to offer loose projections about delivery times
> precisely because of things like this.  If they give a projected
> deadline and circumstances change, it will become a dominant and
> repeated theme among a very small but very vocal minority.  This isn't
> unique to LC; their previous candor was a distinction.  Now they operate
> like everyone else, because the moment they dare to discuss anything not
> already in the can they expose themselves to a continuation of this same
> tediousness that every other company figured out how to avoid by keeping
> cards close.
>
> Wanna know what Apple's working on for 2020? Good luck.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   
>   ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
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Re: Give a bug a hug

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Dear Richard,

I did absorb that - nearly 3 years ago - QED.

My major itch is the crowdfunding SPECIFICALLY for Sqlite , with a
manual and all that. I have gone round and round
in this, NOT as often as I should, but only when a thread gets my back up.

By the way I have 4 drafts I haven't sent (and Probably) won't for the last
two threads because I know it would incense some people , nothing personal
or ad homonym
but facts. Problem is facts these days are how you perceive them rather
than what they are -  twas ever thus.

I respect your opinions but if 2016 is the latest "main update", then  we
have a difference of opinion on what good communication is.

I'm asking simple questions and getting "fuzzy" or no answers. - and I
don't like that.

I still think LC has more to recommend it than Xojo, B4X, HAX, Python
(shouldn't even be  compared), Purebasic etc
Lazarus/Freepascal is definitely is totally cross platform and totally open
source but I like LC better even though I was an Apple  UCSD Pascal, Turbo
Pascal and  Delphi user
in my youf.

Regards Lagi


On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 at 21:43, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Lagi Pittas wrote:
>
>  > This is what I was talking about being treated like mushrooms - no
>  > communication as to what the future holds.- rough timescales
>  > as to when new or reassigned resources will be implemented - what
>  > is the intention with sqlite, 2d physics, Audio 
>  >
>  > here is a 2014 update  ...
>  >
>  > https://livecode.com/the-present-and-future-livecode/
>
> And here is a May 2016 update:
>
>
> https://livecode.com/trevor-devore-interviews-kevin-mark-on-infinite-livecode/
>
>
> A small number of people keep going round and round on this a large
> number of times.
>
> How many times will the same conversation happen before more recent
> information is absorbed?
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   
>   ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
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Re: Questions about LC Server Apps

[Jjs via use-livecode]

For example, how globals work between html pages like SESSIONS variables do in 
PHP. Or how values from buttons are picked up. I'm not unwilling to use it, but 
most servers already have php installed and therefore it is easier to use might 
one need to move to another server. The more when it is a shared hosting. 
Mostly they do not allow installation of lc server. I have now a small vps on 
which i can try it. It runs ok on xamp now. Finding do many examples on html 
and php shortens the time to build it.

Richard Gaskin via use-livecode  schreef op 9 
oktober 2019 12:09:47 CEST:
>Jjs wrote:
>
> > I'm also not using lc server, i stopped it, too less examples.
>
>What functionality or topics would you like to see examples on?
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
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Re: Questions about LC Server Apps

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Jjs wrote:

> I'm also not using lc server, i stopped it, too less examples.

What functionality or topics would you like to see examples on?

--
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 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Questions about LC Server Apps

[Jjs via use-livecode]

To be honest, i tried revigniter and i'm convinced it is good and working for 
some. But somehow i can't get my head around it unfortunately. I'm also not 
using lc server, i stopped it, too less examples. So for now i'm replicating my 
android app as webapp using html and php as there are millions of examples 
which help to build very quickly. And maybe for one part where I don't exactly 
understand how to use php i perhaps try to use lc. Perhaps later i can try to 
rewrite some php parts to lc.

William Prothero via use-livecode  schreef op 9 
oktober 2019 04:10:31 CEST:
>Folks:
>I’m doing web stuff with php and Wordpress, and reading all of the
>postings about LC’s HTML5 deployment. Since I have done a lot of
>programming of LC and have a business license, it could be a lot easier
>to use LC in a server environment than struggling with my minimal php
>skills.
>
>The lessons for HTML5 are very, very minimal and leave a LOT
>unanswered. But, here’s what I think and perhaps you can correct any
>mis-conceptions. 
>
>HTML5 deployment is basically an app that is downloaded and runs in a
>browser. It’s kinda like Flash and Director, except that the “plugin”
>is downloaded with the app and the browser runs the app in its built-in
>javascript engine. However, the tutorials for HTML5 are pretty much
>non-existent and I would expect a lot of hair-pulling (not that I have
>a lot of excess) in trying to use it.
>
>Using the livecode plugin is more in the style of php. Revigniter seems
>like a great application framework, and it uses the cgi mode of
>livecode. Revigniter seems like it would make building web sites using
>LC a lot easier, and would provide a lot of programming examples and
>handlers that would very much ease development.
>
>Has anybody use LC for a wordpress plugin? Or perhaps a basic wordpress
>site could exist alongside the LC supported site.
>
>What do you think? Feedback would be much appreciated.
>
>Best,
>Bill Prothero
>
>William A. Prothero
>http://earthlearningsolutions.org
>
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Re: Where do we want LiveCode to go? (was "Re: Where LiveCode is Now")

[Jjs via use-livecode]

@Sean Ok i have to agree. It is looking very professional. and maybe you are 
right. In this way that i think that for employees of a company this is good to 
work with. Even the loading times, i acknowledge in that case it is workable. 
For an average unknown visitor or possible customer who comes by it takes too 
long to be attractive. 

Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode  schreef op 9 
oktober 2019 08:32:58 CEST:
>Yes Sean, that looks good!
>
>Already when I see the table, I’m blind typing, trying the page up/down
>keys on the keyboard, resizing the window while it is loading, trying
>to stress it…
>
>Peter
>
>> On Oct 8, 2019, at 10:21 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode
> wrote:
>> 
>> I'll say that is a good job so far.  The grid is very responsive (but
>I am
>> using a pretty fast laptop).  Second time to the page was much faster
>than
>> the first.  And I'll agree that some of the corporate web apps that I
>have
>> to use can take time to get themselves ready for anything.  Even the
>SAP
>> desktop client can be slow to load.
>> 
>> Thanks for posting this.
>> 
>> Brian
>> 
>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 8:18 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
 On 8 Oct 2019, at 19:37, JJS via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 
 So that's why i say, the HTML5 export is a nice thing to
>experiment, but
>>> no visitor is going to return after the first time of long waiting,
>not
>>> even if the 2nd time is somewhat quicker
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Again, this only potentially applies to the landing page, not a web
>app
>>> which any visitor would or could expect a loading time, especially
>if
>>> warned. Our clients are already happy with this. It’s still less or
>about
>>> the same as they experienced with the desktop app.
>>> 
>>> HTML5 deployment from LC is not intended for making web pages.
>>> 
>>> Have you loaded MS Dynamics or any other CRM for that matter in a
>browser.
>>> And yet they are used day in day out by thousands of businesses
>globally.
>>> Each MSD window is tedious - loading takes 16-20sec and
>inconsistent. LC
>>> html is a dream in comparison (despite its current bugs and
>screwups).
>>> 
>>> https://tariffanalyser.porrima.co.uk
>>> 
>>> Double click the circle icon to see some demo data and display 28k+
>>> records in a custom built DataGrid (coz datagrid2 is broken and mega
>slow
>>> at the moment).
>>> 
>>> That’s what I’m working on and it loads pretty fast in comparison.
>10
>>> seconds to download the app and engine, run, Connect to a list from
>MySQL
>>> via php, resize to fit the screen and display. (Note: this is not
>designed
>>> for mobile platforms)
>>> 
>>> Each sales agent will have a link on their desktop that will open up
>>> Chrome to this page as if opening a desktop app. And they can leave
>it open
>>> over night if they wish and come back to it the next morning after
>logging
>>> back into their machine.
>>> 
>>> This ‘experiment’ seems to be working.
>>> 
>>> Sean Cole
>>> Pi Digital Prod Ltd
>>> 
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Re: Where do we want LiveCode to go? (was "Re: Where LiveCode is Now")

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

Yes Sean, that looks good!

Already when I see the table, I’m blind typing, trying the page up/down keys on 
the keyboard, resizing the window while it is loading, trying to stress it…

Peter

> On Oct 8, 2019, at 10:21 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'll say that is a good job so far.  The grid is very responsive (but I am
> using a pretty fast laptop).  Second time to the page was much faster than
> the first.  And I'll agree that some of the corporate web apps that I have
> to use can take time to get themselves ready for anything.  Even the SAP
> desktop client can be slow to load.
> 
> Thanks for posting this.
> 
> Brian
> 
> On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 8:18 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>>> On 8 Oct 2019, at 19:37, JJS via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> So that's why i say, the HTML5 export is a nice thing to experiment, but
>> no visitor is going to return after the first time of long waiting, not
>> even if the 2nd time is somewhat quicker
>> 
>> 
>> Again, this only potentially applies to the landing page, not a web app
>> which any visitor would or could expect a loading time, especially if
>> warned. Our clients are already happy with this. It’s still less or about
>> the same as they experienced with the desktop app.
>> 
>> HTML5 deployment from LC is not intended for making web pages.
>> 
>> Have you loaded MS Dynamics or any other CRM for that matter in a browser.
>> And yet they are used day in day out by thousands of businesses globally.
>> Each MSD window is tedious - loading takes 16-20sec and inconsistent. LC
>> html is a dream in comparison (despite its current bugs and screwups).
>> 
>> https://tariffanalyser.porrima.co.uk
>> 
>> Double click the circle icon to see some demo data and display 28k+
>> records in a custom built DataGrid (coz datagrid2 is broken and mega slow
>> at the moment).
>> 
>> That’s what I’m working on and it loads pretty fast in comparison. 10
>> seconds to download the app and engine, run, Connect to a list from MySQL
>> via php, resize to fit the screen and display. (Note: this is not designed
>> for mobile platforms)
>> 
>> Each sales agent will have a link on their desktop that will open up
>> Chrome to this page as if opening a desktop app. And they can leave it open
>> over night if they wish and come back to it the next morning after logging
>> back into their machine.
>> 
>> This ‘experiment’ seems to be working.
>> 
>> Sean Cole
>> Pi Digital Prod Ltd
>> 
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