Re: Hunting Default Preferences
That’s what I was looking for - the location of the LC preference file. Actually Randy Hengst wisely advised me that the View menu has a toggle for the backdrop. . .DUH! Thanks, Jerry > On May 7, 2023, at 2:58 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode > wrote: > > Jerry, > > did you already try to delete the LC preference file? > > The function revEnvironmentUserPreferencesPath() > returns the path to the preferences file. > > > >> Am 07.05.2023 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Jensen via use-livecode >> : >> >> Hi folks, >> >> I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including >> debugging others’ LC code. >> >> I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC >> app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none. >> I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers). >> There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it >> back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. >> I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not >> enough. >> >> Its easy enough to put: >> set the backdrop to none >> in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best. >> >> Where should I look? >> >> Regards, >> Jerry Jensen >> M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9 >> _______ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Hunting Default Preferences
Oh that is TOO easy. No wonder I couldn’t find it! Onward! Thanks, Jerry > On May 7, 2023, at 3:03 PM, Randy Hengst via use-livecode > wrote: > > You should be able to go to the View menu and toggle off backdrop. > > take care, > randy > >> On May 7, 2023, at 4:58 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> Jerry, >> >> did you already try to delete the LC preference file? >> >> The function revEnvironmentUserPreferencesPath() >> returns the path to the preferences file. >> >> >> >>> Am 07.05.2023 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Jensen via use-livecode >>> : >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including >>> debugging others’ LC code. >>> >>> I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC >>> app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none. >>> I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers). >>> There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it >>> back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. >>> I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not >>> enough. >>> >>> Its easy enough to put: >>> set the backdrop to none >>> in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best. >>> >>> Where should I look? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Jerry Jensen >>> M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9 >>> ___ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> ___ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Hunting Default Preferences
You should be able to go to the View menu and toggle off backdrop. take care, randy > On May 7, 2023, at 4:58 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode > wrote: > > Jerry, > > did you already try to delete the LC preference file? > > The function revEnvironmentUserPreferencesPath() > returns the path to the preferences file. > > > >> Am 07.05.2023 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Jensen via use-livecode >> : >> >> Hi folks, >> >> I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including >> debugging others’ LC code. >> >> I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC >> app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none. >> I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers). >> There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it >> back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. >> I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not >> enough. >> >> Its easy enough to put: >> set the backdrop to none >> in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best. >> >> Where should I look? >> >> Regards, >> Jerry Jensen >> M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9 >> _______ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Hunting Default Preferences
Jerry, did you already try to delete the LC preference file? The function revEnvironmentUserPreferencesPath() returns the path to the preferences file. > Am 07.05.2023 um 23:39 schrieb Jerry Jensen via use-livecode > : > > Hi folks, > > I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including > debugging others’ LC code. > > I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC > app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none. > I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers). > There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back > to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. > I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not > enough. > > Its easy enough to put: > set the backdrop to none > in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best. > > Where should I look? > > Regards, > Jerry Jensen > M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9 > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Hunting Default Preferences
Hi folks, I am returning to LiveCode after a spell of other projects, including debugging others’ LC code. I find myself with a predicament - on launch of LC (no stack, just the LC app) I get a backdrop of off-white when I need none. I have no idea how this got changed (never underestimate fatfingers). There is probably a preference file somewhere that will let me change it back to the way it was (none) but I can’t seem to find it. I have looked everywhere that seems reasonable, but that is clearly not enough. Its easy enough to put: set the backdrop to none in each mainstack opencard handler, but that is annoying at best. Where should I look? Regards, Jerry Jensen M1 MacBook Pro, OS 13.3.1 LC 9.6.9 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Unable to load Preferences LC 9.6.9rc3 and Levure 9.0.5
Marty, apologies, I forgot to add I am doing this on an “M” chip. Mark > On 18 Apr 2023, at 10:42 am, Mark Smith wrote: > > Hi Marty, this worked like a charm. I was trying to open Trevor's > dataview_demo and was getting the same “An error occurred while initialising > the application…” msg. This fixed it. Thanks > > Mark > > >> On 14 Apr 2023, at 10:35 pm, Marty Knapp via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> I don’t have an “M” chip Mac here to test at the moment but here’s something >> to try: >> >> In the Levure framework open the helpers folder and then the preferences >> folder >> Modify the helper.yml file by deleting the section under externals so the >> file just contains the following >> >> externals: >> libraries: >> - filename: preferences.livecodescript >> extensions: >> - filename: nsuserdefaults.lcm >> engine version: ">=9.0" >> platform: macos,ios >> >> Then try a build and see how that works. I just tried it on my Intel iMac >> and preferences are working OK without the previous content. >> >> Please let me know how it works on your “M” mac >> >> >> Marty >> >>> On Apr 10, 2023, at 3:23 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode >>> wrote: >>> >>> On 2023-04-08 14:58, bob--- via use-livecode wrote: >>>> I'm wondering if anyone might be able to help me out. I’m trying to >>>> use LC 9.6.9rc3 with an app built with Levure. With LC 9.6.9rc2 I am >>>> able to open the app in the IDE with no issue. >>>> When I try to open the app with LC 9.6.9rc3 I get “An error occurred >>>> while initializing the application [unable to load external >>>> Preferences]”. I’m tracing through the Levure script now and can see >>>> in fact the Preference stack is not being loaded. I’ve confirmed >>>> Preferences.bundle is at the location referenced in the script. >>>> Can anyone steer me in a direction for a fix to this? >>> >>> So you'll need to (for now) use `Get Info` on LiveCode.app in Finder, and >>> ask it to 'open in rosetta'... Then when building any standalones, disable >>> generating a the arm64 slice (you can do this in the MacOS pane of >>> standalone settings). >>> >>> The reason is isn't working is that the preferences external included in >>> Levure does not have a ARM64 slice - so won't load when the engine is >>> running using that architecture. >>> >>> The preferences external will need to be rebuilt with an arm64 slice and >>> included in Levure. >>> >>> (When looking at this the other day, I did notice that Levure has an LCB >>> extension which can do preferences stuff on macOS - bypassing the need for >>> an external, but I couldn't see how you opt to use that instead of the >>> external). >>> >>> Warmest Regards, >>> >>> Mark. >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >>> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things >> >> >> ___ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Unable to load Preferences LC 9.6.9rc3 and Levure 9.0.5
Hi Marty, this worked like a charm. I was trying to open Trevor's dataview_demo and was getting the same “An error occurred while initialising the application…” msg. This fixed it. Thanks Mark > On 14 Apr 2023, at 10:35 pm, Marty Knapp via use-livecode > wrote: > > I don’t have an “M” chip Mac here to test at the moment but here’s something > to try: > > In the Levure framework open the helpers folder and then the preferences > folder > Modify the helper.yml file by deleting the section under externals so the > file just contains the following > > externals: > libraries: > - filename: preferences.livecodescript > extensions: > - filename: nsuserdefaults.lcm >engine version: ">=9.0" >platform: macos,ios > > Then try a build and see how that works. I just tried it on my Intel iMac and > preferences are working OK without the previous content. > > Please let me know how it works on your “M” mac > > > Marty > >> On Apr 10, 2023, at 3:23 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> On 2023-04-08 14:58, bob--- via use-livecode wrote: >>> I'm wondering if anyone might be able to help me out. I’m trying to >>> use LC 9.6.9rc3 with an app built with Levure. With LC 9.6.9rc2 I am >>> able to open the app in the IDE with no issue. >>> When I try to open the app with LC 9.6.9rc3 I get “An error occurred >>> while initializing the application [unable to load external >>> Preferences]”. I’m tracing through the Levure script now and can see >>> in fact the Preference stack is not being loaded. I’ve confirmed >>> Preferences.bundle is at the location referenced in the script. >>> Can anyone steer me in a direction for a fix to this? >> >> So you'll need to (for now) use `Get Info` on LiveCode.app in Finder, and >> ask it to 'open in rosetta'... Then when building any standalones, disable >> generating a the arm64 slice (you can do this in the MacOS pane of >> standalone settings). >> >> The reason is isn't working is that the preferences external included in >> Levure does not have a ARM64 slice - so won't load when the engine is >> running using that architecture. >> >> The preferences external will need to be rebuilt with an arm64 slice and >> included in Levure. >> >> (When looking at this the other day, I did notice that Levure has an LCB >> extension which can do preferences stuff on macOS - bypassing the need for >> an external, but I couldn't see how you opt to use that instead of the >> external). >> >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. >> >> -- >> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Unable to load Preferences LC 9.6.9rc3 and Levure 9.0.5
I don’t have an “M” chip Mac here to test at the moment but here’s something to try: In the Levure framework open the helpers folder and then the preferences folder Modify the helper.yml file by deleting the section under externals so the file just contains the following externals: libraries: - filename: preferences.livecodescript extensions: - filename: nsuserdefaults.lcm engine version: ">=9.0" platform: macos,ios Then try a build and see how that works. I just tried it on my Intel iMac and preferences are working OK without the previous content. Please let me know how it works on your “M” mac Marty > On Apr 10, 2023, at 3:23 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode > wrote: > > On 2023-04-08 14:58, bob--- via use-livecode wrote: >> I'm wondering if anyone might be able to help me out. I’m trying to >> use LC 9.6.9rc3 with an app built with Levure. With LC 9.6.9rc2 I am >> able to open the app in the IDE with no issue. >> When I try to open the app with LC 9.6.9rc3 I get “An error occurred >> while initializing the application [unable to load external >> Preferences]”. I’m tracing through the Levure script now and can see >> in fact the Preference stack is not being loaded. I’ve confirmed >> Preferences.bundle is at the location referenced in the script. >> Can anyone steer me in a direction for a fix to this? > > So you'll need to (for now) use `Get Info` on LiveCode.app in Finder, and ask > it to 'open in rosetta'... Then when building any standalones, disable > generating a the arm64 slice (you can do this in the MacOS pane of standalone > settings). > > The reason is isn't working is that the preferences external included in > Levure does not have a ARM64 slice - so won't load when the engine is running > using that architecture. > > The preferences external will need to be rebuilt with an arm64 slice and > included in Levure. > > (When looking at this the other day, I did notice that Levure has an LCB > extension which can do preferences stuff on macOS - bypassing the need for an > external, but I couldn't see how you opt to use that instead of the external). > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Build Amazing Things _______ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Unable to load Preferences LC 9.6.9rc3 and Levure 9.0.5
On 2023-04-08 14:58, bob--- via use-livecode wrote: I'm wondering if anyone might be able to help me out. I’m trying to use LC 9.6.9rc3 with an app built with Levure. With LC 9.6.9rc2 I am able to open the app in the IDE with no issue. When I try to open the app with LC 9.6.9rc3 I get “An error occurred while initializing the application [unable to load external Preferences]”. I’m tracing through the Levure script now and can see in fact the Preference stack is not being loaded. I’ve confirmed Preferences.bundle is at the location referenced in the script. Can anyone steer me in a direction for a fix to this? So you'll need to (for now) use `Get Info` on LiveCode.app in Finder, and ask it to 'open in rosetta'... Then when building any standalones, disable generating a the arm64 slice (you can do this in the MacOS pane of standalone settings). The reason is isn't working is that the preferences external included in Levure does not have a ARM64 slice - so won't load when the engine is running using that architecture. The preferences external will need to be rebuilt with an arm64 slice and included in Levure. (When looking at this the other day, I did notice that Levure has an LCB extension which can do preferences stuff on macOS - bypassing the need for an external, but I couldn't see how you opt to use that instead of the external). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Unable to load Preferences LC 9.6.9rc3 and Levure 9.0.5
I use Levure to build apps too and discovered this issue when my standalones try to run natively on the Apple “M” chips. I’m guessing that LC 9.6.9rc3 (haven’t tried it yet) defaults to running natively rather than under Rosetta. For some reason when running natively it apparently thinks that something in the “Preferences.bundle" is a (not native) external so won’t/can’t load it. So I am also needing a solution to this but no luck so far. --- Marty Knapp > On Apr 8, 2023, at 6:58 AM, bob--- via use-livecode > wrote: > > I'm wondering if anyone might be able to help me out. I’m trying to use LC > 9.6.9rc3 with an app built with Levure. With LC 9.6.9rc2 I am able to open > the app in the IDE with no issue. > > When I try to open the app with LC 9.6.9rc3 I get “An error occurred while > initializing the application [unable to load external Preferences]”. I’m > tracing through the Levure script now and can see in fact the Preference > stack is not being loaded. I’ve confirmed Preferences.bundle is at the > location referenced in the script. > > Can anyone steer me in a direction for a fix to this? > > Thanks in advance, > Bob ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Unable to load Preferences LC 9.6.9rc3 and Levure 9.0.5
I'm wondering if anyone might be able to help me out. I’m trying to use LC 9.6.9rc3 with an app built with Levure. With LC 9.6.9rc2 I am able to open the app in the IDE with no issue. When I try to open the app with LC 9.6.9rc3 I get “An error occurred while initializing the application [unable to load external Preferences]”. I’m tracing through the Levure script now and can see in fact the Preference stack is not being loaded. I’ve confirmed Preferences.bundle is at the location referenced in the script. Can anyone steer me in a direction for a fix to this? Thanks in advance, Bob ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: specialFolderPath("preferences") returns empty on Windows???
Mark Wieder wrote: On 4/23/19 11:25 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: Bob Sneidar wrote: > NVM I just read further. Preferences is not one I can use for Windows. The bad news is that, as you've discovered, Windows has no "Preferences" folder per se. The good news is that it does have a commonly-used place for that sort of thing, and that LC's specialFolderPath function allows passing in OS constants for all sorts of things. In your case try specialFolderPath(26) Others are documented here, where Ken Ray took the time to explore as many as he could find on Mac and Windows at the time: http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/tips/file010.htm Some reason why specialFolderPath("preferences") on Windows doesn't just return the value for specialFolderPath(26)? Yeah... I know... it would be a synonym and we can't have those, but sheesh... It seems a philosophical problem: though a folder exists for the same purpose, it isn't "Preferences". I'm with you, though: ease of use > literal linguistic purity. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: specialFolderPath("preferences") returns empty on Windows???
On 4/23/19 11:25 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: Bob Sneidar wrote: > NVM I just read further. Preferences is not one I can use for Windows. The bad news is that, as you've discovered, Windows has no "Preferences" folder per se. The good news is that it does have a commonly-used place for that sort of thing, and that LC's specialFolderPath function allows passing in OS constants for all sorts of things. In your case try specialFolderPath(26) Others are documented here, where Ken Ray took the time to explore as many as he could find on Mac and Windows at the time: http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/tips/file010.htm Some reason why specialFolderPath("preferences") on Windows doesn't just return the value for specialFolderPath(26)? Yeah... I know... it would be a synonym and we can't have those, but sheesh... -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: specialFolderPath("preferences") returns empty on Windows???
Bob Sneidar wrote: > NVM I just read further. Preferences is not one I can use for Windows. The bad news is that, as you've discovered, Windows has no "Preferences" folder per se. The good news is that it does have a commonly-used place for that sort of thing, and that LC's specialFolderPath function allows passing in OS constants for all sorts of things. In your case try specialFolderPath(26) Others are documented here, where Ken Ray took the time to explore as many as he could find on Mac and Windows at the time: http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/tips/file010.htm -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: specialFolderPath("preferences") returns empty on Windows???
NVM I just read further. Preferences is not one I can use for Windows. Bob S > On Apr 23, 2019, at 08:06 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: > > Sorry, Win 7 and LC 9.0.2 > > >> On Apr 23, 2019, at 08:06 , Bob Sneidar wrote: >> >> Hi all. Subject line says it all. On Mac it returns for me: >> "/Users/bobsneidar/Library/Preferences" >> >> I copy/paste the command into LC for Windows message box it returns empty! >> That explains why my preferences are not working for Windows!!! >> >> Bob S >> > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: specialFolderPath("preferences") returns empty on Windows???
Sorry, Win 7 and LC 9.0.2 > On Apr 23, 2019, at 08:06 , Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Hi all. Subject line says it all. On Mac it returns for me: > "/Users/bobsneidar/Library/Preferences" > > I copy/paste the command into LC for Windows message box it returns empty! > That explains why my preferences are not working for Windows!!! > > Bob S > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
specialFolderPath("preferences") returns empty on Windows???
Hi all. Subject line says it all. On Mac it returns for me: "/Users/bobsneidar/Library/Preferences" I copy/paste the command into LC for Windows message box it returns empty! That explains why my preferences are not working for Windows!!! Bob S ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How to unset the backdrop in the preferences?
Håkan and Panos, Håkan, here it is sticky between launches. Panos, thanks for saving my sanity. Best andre On 10/12/2018 11:55 AM, ha...@exformedia.se wrote: Does View => Backdrop work? On my Mac it is "sticky" between launches of LiveCode Håkan On 12 Oct 2018, 12:48 +0200, Andre Alves Garzia via use-livecode , wrote: Hey Friends, This will sound silly. I am on Windows 10 using LC 9.x, I've set a backdrop on preferences and now I want to unset it but I can't find a way to do it. There are only options to select a new color but no way to clear it. Can anyone help? Executing `set the backdrop to none` every time I boot LC is getting tiresome. cheers andre ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How to unset the backdrop in the preferences?
Does View => Backdrop work? On my Mac it is "sticky" between launches of LiveCode Håkan On 12 Oct 2018, 12:48 +0200, Andre Alves Garzia via use-livecode , wrote: > Hey Friends, > > This will sound silly. I am on Windows 10 using LC 9.x, I've set a > backdrop on preferences and now I want to unset it but I can't find a > way to do it. There are only options to select a new color but no way to > clear it. Can anyone help? Executing `set the backdrop to none` every > time I boot LC is getting tiresome. > > cheers > > andre > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How to unset the backdrop in the preferences?
Hello Andre, You can unset it from the LC menubar (View -> Backdrop). Best, Panos -- On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 1:48 PM Andre Alves Garzia via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hey Friends, > > This will sound silly. I am on Windows 10 using LC 9.x, I've set a > backdrop on preferences and now I want to unset it but I can't find a > way to do it. There are only options to select a new color but no way to > clear it. Can anyone help? Executing `set the backdrop to none` every > time I boot LC is getting tiresome. > > cheers > > andre > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
How to unset the backdrop in the preferences?
Hey Friends, This will sound silly. I am on Windows 10 using LC 9.x, I've set a backdrop on preferences and now I want to unset it but I can't find a way to do it. There are only options to select a new color but no way to clear it. Can anyone help? Executing `set the backdrop to none` every time I boot LC is getting tiresome. cheers andre ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Preferences --> Project Browser --> Sort stack by
Anyone else getting the old bug in 9.01. RC1?. In preferences, we want to set the sort stacks to "Layer" Sort stack by: [Name] [Ascending] But each time I choose Sort stack by: [Layer] [Ascending] It reverts to Name Not that I using the Project Browser all at all anymore. I can't tell you how much Geoff 's Navigator has speeded ups dev. BR ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Will the Same Preferences Work Behind 8.1.10 VS. 9.0
Setting aside the xcode-select you have to do in the terminal to go on 9.2 and 9.3 and back again. Will the LC preferences remain uncorrupted going from on to the other? I need features in 8.1.10 but also need to debug on the phone itself (with 9) How soon is 9.1 * coming? BR ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Project Browser - Sort Stack Preferences
I was trying the Project Browser's prefs. Sort stacks by layer ascending. It reverts to "Name" … can't keep it stick to "layer" 8.1.10 rc 1 Any else see this? BR ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 07/21/2017 11:14 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: Just started 8.1.6 rc 2 *AGAIN*, both on my Mac (10.7.5) and my Linux (Xubuntu 16.04) and in both cases got a WHITE backdrop even though I had set the Preferences to NO backdrop. Yes - that won't be fixed until the imminent rc3 release. I deleted 8.1.6rc2 to make sure I don't accidentally launch it. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
Just started 8.1.6 rc 2 *AGAIN*, both on my Mac (10.7.5) and my Linux (Xubuntu 16.04) and in both cases got a WHITE backdrop even though I had set the Preferences to NO backdrop. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 07/20/2017 11:33 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: Well that's fine; as you should be aware, all in-groups like to talk to each other in such a way as to exclude non-members so that they can feel vastly superior. I decry the discrimination against Finno-Ugric! -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
Well that's fine; as you should be aware, all in-groups like to talk to each other in such a way as to exclude non-members so that they can feel vastly superior. Richmond. On 7/20/17 9:26 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: Commonly understood by all in the group. Not all mankind! :-) Bob S On Jul 20, 2017, at 10:22 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: Fine: then let's all switch over to Latin. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
Commonly understood by all in the group. Not all mankind! :-) Bob S > On Jul 20, 2017, at 10:22 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode > <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Fine: then let's all switch over to Latin. > > Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
Fine: then let's all switch over to Latin. Richmond. On 7/20/17 5:57 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: I too find it much more productive when communicating with a group to do so in a language common to all. :-) Bob S On Jul 19, 2017, at 04:28 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: I am sorry, but my French is not so good. Google translate gave me the following translation to English: * Everyone to his taste but this, o, ent it is not a choice! I would like a digestive. But still wondering what you wanted to say. (The German translation was even more confusing) Matthias Rebbe ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
I too find it much more productive when communicating with a group to do so in a language common to all. :-) Bob S > On Jul 19, 2017, at 04:28 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode > <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > I am sorry, but my French is not so good. Google translate gave me the > following translation to English: > > * Everyone to his taste but this, o, ent it is not a choice! > I would like a digestive. > > But still wondering what you wanted to say. > (The German translation was even more confusing) > > > > > Matthias Rebbe ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6=29517=156125#p156125 On 7/19/17 10:39 pm, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: That is a rather good suggestion! Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
That is a rather good suggestion! On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 8:10 PM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I understand your point completely! > > HOWEVER, why not make it slightly easier to make the backdrop to disappear? > > Erm . . . how about a button on the far right of the revMenubar stack? > > Richmond. > > On 7/19/17 10:06 pm, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 5:58 PM Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode < > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> How about *offering* to put up the backdrop for the tutorial, rather > than > >> imposing it? > >> > > Well, we were acting in direct response to a whole lot of feedback from > new > > users who didn't seem to like the idea of seeing 'through' LiveCode to > > their desktops. > > > > If we get corresponding feedback that they *don't* like having the > backdrop > > (we didn't get such feedback at the first user testing) then we would for > > sure make it an option. But honestly, the fewer questions a user is asked > > about their default preferences the better. Imagine having to answer on > > startup whether you want the palettes to disappear when you open the > script > > editor, and whether you want an HTTP proxy, and what colour you want your > > selection handles to be, and whether you would like to see default > handlers > > in the handler list, and whether you would like to see property labels > > instead of property names in the property inspector. > > > > Surely the most sensible route here is to decide on defaults and see if > > people for whom those defaults are relevant have any objections? I'm not > > sure it is necessary to be offended on behalf of hypothetical new users > :-) > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 07/18/2017 10:59 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: Do your keyboard shortcuts work Mark? You could use Ctrl+M to pop open the message box, and set the backdrop to none, then toggle it on and off via the View menu, then hopefully it should be gone from your preferences. Interesting. That didn't work for me, but the following did: launch LC9 get a completely gray screen alt-tab my way to LiveCode now the menubar and other palettes are in front of the backdrop disable the backdrop to set the preference so everything's there, it's just that the backdrop is in front of all other windows and it's not passing (keyboard) events through. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
"Assault" . . . Woof. "The screen seizure indicates a mindset catering to the simplistic, unsophisticated, and non-programming user" Well . . . I'm not sure why favouring a backdrop blocking out a desktop indicates that one is 'simplistic' . . . Until I went to the US in 1993 I had never seen a GUI except for a really awful attempt at one on a BBC Micro; but I was perfectly capable of doing distinctly non-simplistic stuff with FORTRAN, PASCAL, BASIC and so on. Recently I started a group of kids on a summer programming course with BBC BASIC on a load of BBC Micro computers: very effective and lots of fun was had all round. There are front-ends for Linux available that do NOT splatter the screen with icons and other screen 'furniture' (docks and so on) for people who prefer things that way: I don't suppose they are either simplistic or unsophisticated. Personally I don't like using a backdrop with LiveCode, but I can see its use to the extent that my Devawriter Pro has an in-built backdrop for those who want one. "non-programming user" My Mum uses a laptop running Xubuntu 14.04 where her desktop is gaily peppered with icons and a dock; while she is neither simplistic nor unsophisticated she is most definitely a non-programming user. For a lawyer you seem remarkably . . . [well, there we are, I'll leave you to fill in the dots]. NOW . . . to be sensible . . . Let us imagine when starting up LiveCode for the first time we are presented with a menu window that allows us to choose whether we think that we are: 1. A newbie who is seeing the thing for the first time. 2. A haory old programmer who does not need his/her/its handheld. And at that point we can get all Prince-of-Denmarky with our backdrop. Richmond. On 7/19/17 10:16 pm, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: Surely the most sensible route here is to decide on defaults and see if people for whom those defaults are relevant have any objections? I'm not sure it is necessary to be offended on behalf of hypothetical new users :-) To be absolutely, crystal clear, as a non-hypothetical former new user: there is very little chance that I would have become a user after an assault like that. The assault itself is an information signal, whether correctly perceived or not, about how the project development mindset views it's own importance, users, and how users should submit to its preferences. Seize my interface, and I'm pretty much instantly hostile. At that point, you're not trying to attract a curious potential user, but an angry one, and that will color the response. The screen seizure indicates a mindset catering to the simplistic, unsophisticated, and non-programming user--at the expense of hostility to those who have experience, ttc. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Surely the most sensible route here is to decide on defaults and see if > people for whom those defaults are relevant have any objections? I'm not > sure it is necessary to be offended on behalf of hypothetical new users :-) > To be absolutely, crystal clear, as a non-hypothetical former new user: there is very little chance that I would have become a user after an assault like that. The assault itself is an information signal, whether correctly perceived or not, about how the project development mindset views it's own importance, users, and how users should submit to its preferences. Seize my interface, and I'm pretty much instantly hostile. At that point, you're not trying to attract a curious potential user, but an angry one, and that will color the response. The screen seizure indicates a mindset catering to the simplistic, unsophisticated, and non-programming user--at the expense of hostility to those who have experience, ttc. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
I understand your point completely! HOWEVER, why not make it slightly easier to make the backdrop to disappear? Erm . . . how about a button on the far right of the revMenubar stack? Richmond. On 7/19/17 10:06 pm, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 5:58 PM Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: How about *offering* to put up the backdrop for the tutorial, rather than imposing it? Well, we were acting in direct response to a whole lot of feedback from new users who didn't seem to like the idea of seeing 'through' LiveCode to their desktops. If we get corresponding feedback that they *don't* like having the backdrop (we didn't get such feedback at the first user testing) then we would for sure make it an option. But honestly, the fewer questions a user is asked about their default preferences the better. Imagine having to answer on startup whether you want the palettes to disappear when you open the script editor, and whether you want an HTTP proxy, and what colour you want your selection handles to be, and whether you would like to see default handlers in the handler list, and whether you would like to see property labels instead of property names in the property inspector. Surely the most sensible route here is to decide on defaults and see if people for whom those defaults are relevant have any objections? I'm not sure it is necessary to be offended on behalf of hypothetical new users :-) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 5:58 PM Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > How about *offering* to put up the backdrop for the tutorial, rather than > imposing it? > Well, we were acting in direct response to a whole lot of feedback from new users who didn't seem to like the idea of seeing 'through' LiveCode to their desktops. If we get corresponding feedback that they *don't* like having the backdrop (we didn't get such feedback at the first user testing) then we would for sure make it an option. But honestly, the fewer questions a user is asked about their default preferences the better. Imagine having to answer on startup whether you want the palettes to disappear when you open the script editor, and whether you want an HTTP proxy, and what colour you want your selection handles to be, and whether you would like to see default handlers in the handler list, and whether you would like to see property labels instead of property names in the property inspector. Surely the most sensible route here is to decide on defaults and see if people for whom those defaults are relevant have any objections? I'm not sure it is necessary to be offended on behalf of hypothetical new users :-) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > On 7/19/17 7:15 pm, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: > >> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 8:55 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode < >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Looking at the PR it was meant to only set the backdrop if users were >>> still in the first run mode of the start center. >>> >> >> Uhm . . . why would anyone think that that would be a *good* thing? I >> react to my screen being seized as a hostile act. >> >> I didn't even realize that it was livecode that had attached me; initially >> I assumed an OS glitch. >> >> When I saw that my desktop came back when I switched applications, and was >> seized again when livecode resumed, I tried preferences, and didn't see >> anything. >> >> Eventually. I tried view, and found a "backdrop" setting set, and turned >> that off. >> >> I had never heard of backdrop before, and would have had no idea to try to >> deal with it in the message box. >> > > That's funny; that backdrop goes back to at least the Free revMedia thing. > > MetaCard had the backdrop. I used it on IRIX, and it was wonderful to isolate the coding environment from the other stuff. In fact, other very expensive high-end graphics software we used did exactly the same thing. The graphics system set a neutral gray backdrop to enable the user to make subtle color edits to photographs of food. The idea was that the neutrality of the gray backdrop would not interfere with your interpretation of color, as the surrounding colors do actually affect your visual perception. So, yeah. I have a background in graphics which incidentally makes me like the backdrop. ~Roger ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
+1 > On Jul 19, 2017, at 9:15 AM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode > <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Uhm . . . why would anyone think that that would be a *good* thing? I > react to my screen being seized as a hostile act. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > On 7/19/17 7:15 pm, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: > >> >> I had never heard of backdrop before, and would have had no idea to try to >> deal with it in the message box. >> > > That's funny; that backdrop goes back to at least the Free revMedia thing > *shrug* There's *lots* in livecode that I've never investigated, even in the pulldowns. I *can* say that if the version 5 preview/introductory had acted like this, there is *very* little chance that I would be using livecode today (or even later that afternoon . . .) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
"Virgin" on the ridiculous . . . sorry, that one was just too good to resist. Richmond. On 7/19/17 7:50 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: On 07/19/2017 04:49 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: I'm honestly struggling to understand the problem here Do this on linux: (might be a good idea to have a terminal window running already) (especially on a second monitor) install rc2 launch a virgin installation of rc2 see the backdrop take over the screen quit the IDE launch LC (any version) again ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 2017-07-19 19:04, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: On 7/19/17 7:15 pm, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: I had never heard of backdrop before, and would have had no idea to try to deal with it in the message box. That's funny; that backdrop goes back to at least the Free revMedia thing. The backdrop has been there as a feature for as long as I can remember. I'm pretty sure it was in MetaCard before it was ported to non UNIX platforms (back then you *could* actually set a background window with an appropriate hint that worked with the X11 Window Managers as they didn't tend to work in concert with 'desktops' which use that hint to make the Desktop window you see on all modern distros - if you use that class of window now, your backdrop window disappears behind the Desktop - which isn't quite what is wanted, generally ;)). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 07/19/2017 09:55 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: However, in context of my post - I was more talking about 'not being able to see the problem with the idea of putting the backdrop on by default for first-run users to ensure that the tutorials are as easy to follow as possible and thus ensure they get the best experience' which seemed to the 'problem' at that point... OK - got it. I think A/B testing is a worthwhile goal, and I think first-run backdrop initialization may well turn out to be a good idea (with a *very* visible button to disable/enable it on the welcome screen). But please don't do this sort of feature testing in rc builds. Whatever happened to dp releases anyway? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
Thanks, Panos! That worked. I changed the arrangement of my Mac screens, so I guess it was stranded. ~Roger On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 10:42 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > @Roger: > > Could it be the case that the Preferences stack does open, but somehow it > goes offscreen? > > - Open Prefs > - If you don't see the window, type in the msg box: > > set the loc of stack revpreferencesGUI to the screenloc > > Best, > > Panos > > -- > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Roger Eller via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Every version I have, 6.x, 7.x, 8.x, all black, Mac or Windows. Odd > thing > > though, on OS X 10.11.6, versions 8.1.4 and 8.1.5 will not open > > Preferences. > > > > ~Roger > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > Dunno: I get grey. > > > > > > Richmond. > > > > > > On 7/19/17 2:58 pm, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote: > > > > > >> When I toggle the backdrop ON, why is it black, rather than something > > like > > >> "lightgray" which is more like the Tools and menu portion of the IDE? > > >> Black as the default feels like a mistake? > > >> > > >> ~Roger > > >> > > >> > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 7/19/17 7:15 pm, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 8:55 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: Looking at the PR it was meant to only set the backdrop if users were still in the first run mode of the start center. Uhm . . . why would anyone think that that would be a *good* thing? I react to my screen being seized as a hostile act. I didn't even realize that it was livecode that had attached me; initially I assumed an OS glitch. When I saw that my desktop came back when I switched applications, and was seized again when livecode resumed, I tried preferences, and didn't see anything. Eventually. I tried view, and found a "backdrop" setting set, and turned that off. I had never heard of backdrop before, and would have had no idea to try to deal with it in the message box. That's funny; that backdrop goes back to at least the Free revMedia thing. Richmond. Also, *every* time rc2 launches, it r4ets this preference. I find the notion that new users need the computer taken away from them rather condescending . . . ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > However, in context of my post - I was more talking about 'not being able > to see the problem with the idea of putting the backdrop on by default for > first-run users to ensure that the tutorials are as easy to follow as > possible and thus ensure they get the best experience' which seemed to the > 'problem' at that point... How about *offering* to put up the backdrop for the tutorial, rather than imposing it? My immediate reaction to discovering a program thought itself sIt's mo important that it should block out the rest has always been rather hostile--to the level I quit the program and don't go back. It's my screen, with the things I'm doing, set the way I want. It's not for a new potential program to decide I'm wrong. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 2017-07-19 18:50, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: On 07/19/2017 04:49 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: I'm honestly struggling to understand the problem here Do this on linux: (might be a good idea to have a terminal window running already) (especially on a second monitor) install rc2 launch a virgin installation of rc2 see the backdrop take over the screen quit the IDE launch LC (any version) again Right - yes - we identified that was a problem (one we didn't intend) - and that was commented on many many posts ago :) However, in context of my post - I was more talking about 'not being able to see the problem with the idea of putting the backdrop on by default for first-run users to ensure that the tutorials are as easy to follow as possible and thus ensure they get the best experience' which seemed to the 'problem' at that point... Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 07/19/2017 04:49 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: I'm honestly struggling to understand the problem here Do this on linux: (might be a good idea to have a terminal window running already) (especially on a second monitor) install rc2 launch a virgin installation of rc2 see the backdrop take over the screen quit the IDE launch LC (any version) again -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 8:55 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Looking at the PR it was meant to only set the backdrop if users were > still in the first run mode of the start center. Uhm . . . why would anyone think that that would be a *good* thing? I react to my screen being seized as a hostile act. I didn't even realize that it was livecode that had attached me; initially I assumed an OS glitch. When I saw that my desktop came back when I switched applications, and was seized again when livecode resumed, I tried preferences, and didn't see anything. Eventually. I tried view, and found a "backdrop" setting set, and turned that off. I had never heard of backdrop before, and would have had no idea to try to deal with it in the message box. Also, *every* time rc2 launches, it r4ets this preference. I find the notion that new users need the computer taken away from them rather condescending . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
Proof of concept: https://www.dropbox.com/s/suhwepaw39tqlp8/Backdropper.livecode.zip?dl=0 Richmond. On 7/19/17 2:55 pm, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: On 2017-07-19 13:19, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: I've just run 8.1.6 past "my kiddos" (even though their summer classes have finished it is amazing what happens when I write "ice cream" on Facebook) and about half of them liked the backdrop, but none of them like the backdrop "as a boring colour". This is where we get all Shakespearian and start wombling on about "on which to stay one's eye". I tried them with a backdrop consisting of a textured colour (dark green tweed sort of thing) and they liked that a lot. Thanks for the feedback :) I've passed it to be included with the results of the most recent user testing session we have done. You owe me 15 choc-ices. Think of it as a contribution to supporting the LiveCode project ;) Warmest Regards, Mark. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 2017-07-19 16:26, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote: Every version I have, 6.x, 7.x, 8.x, all black, Mac or Windows. Odd thing though, on OS X 10.11.6, versions 8.1.4 and 8.1.5 will not open Preferences. Have you opened 8.1.6-rc-2? Prior to 8.1.6-rc-2 the default set in the IDE (if it has not been previously set, or set when 'reset preferences' is clicked) is black. In 8.1.6-rc-2 it changes the default to light grey - which is probably causing the distinction. I suspect Panos has your answer (hopefully!) for why your prefs window is AWOL in all your versions... Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
@Roger: Could it be the case that the Preferences stack does open, but somehow it goes offscreen? - Open Prefs - If you don't see the window, type in the msg box: set the loc of stack revpreferencesGUI to the screenloc Best, Panos -- On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Roger Eller via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Every version I have, 6.x, 7.x, 8.x, all black, Mac or Windows. Odd thing > though, on OS X 10.11.6, versions 8.1.4 and 8.1.5 will not open > Preferences. > > ~Roger > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Dunno: I get grey. > > > > Richmond. > > > > On 7/19/17 2:58 pm, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote: > > > >> When I toggle the backdrop ON, why is it black, rather than something > like > >> "lightgray" which is more like the Tools and menu portion of the IDE? > >> Black as the default feels like a mistake? > >> > >> ~Roger > >> > >> > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
Every version I have, 6.x, 7.x, 8.x, all black, Mac or Windows. Odd thing though, on OS X 10.11.6, versions 8.1.4 and 8.1.5 will not open Preferences. ~Roger On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Dunno: I get grey. > > Richmond. > > On 7/19/17 2:58 pm, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote: > >> When I toggle the backdrop ON, why is it black, rather than something like >> "lightgray" which is more like the Tools and menu portion of the IDE? >> Black as the default feels like a mistake? >> >> ~Roger >> >> ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
Dunno: I get grey. Richmond. On 7/19/17 2:58 pm, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote: When I toggle the backdrop ON, why is it black, rather than something like "lightgray" which is more like the Tools and menu portion of the IDE? Black as the default feels like a mistake? ~Roger ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 2017-07-19 13:58, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote: When I toggle the backdrop ON, why is it black, rather than something like "lightgray" which is more like the Tools and menu portion of the IDE? Black as the default feels like a mistake? The backdrop color can be configured as a preference... It just so happens that the default there is black: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20128 Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
When I toggle the backdrop ON, why is it black, rather than something like "lightgray" which is more like the Tools and menu portion of the IDE? Black as the default feels like a mistake? ~Roger ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 2017-07-19 13:19, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: I've just run 8.1.6 past "my kiddos" (even though their summer classes have finished it is amazing what happens when I write "ice cream" on Facebook) and about half of them liked the backdrop, but none of them like the backdrop "as a boring colour". This is where we get all Shakespearian and start wombling on about "on which to stay one's eye". I tried them with a backdrop consisting of a textured colour (dark green tweed sort of thing) and they liked that a lot. Thanks for the feedback :) I've passed it to be included with the results of the most recent user testing session we have done. You owe me 15 choc-ices. Think of it as a contribution to supporting the LiveCode project ;) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 2017-07-19 13:40, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: How many of those brand new users are going to start teaching themselves LiveCode at home, and how many are going to go through a guided course in LiveCode in some kind of classroom setting? Most are going to be going through it from home or office on their own, after they have discovered us through the web, traversed our web pages and downloaded. (Unless, of course, there is a hidden world of 'underground' LiveCode classrooms no-one at here is aware of and which would explain the 1000's of NEW downloads we get on a weekly basis). The biggish, bold font in the scriptEditor is useful (for me) in that I can sit in the middle of a room with computers lining the walls and talk to indvidual kids about their scripting without shifting my b** too much. Right - so you already configure LiveCode on the machines your students use to teach in the style you are accustomed - I also suspect you turn first run mode off (or have done, even if you didn't realise you did). I think it is reasonable to expect teachers to have to configure the environment of the tools they are teaching to their pupils - it seems like standard practice in any teaching environment to me (at least in the first instance before you've explained the configurability of the tool to said pupils in a lesson at some point, assuming that you do). You are talking about this being 'enforced'. It is not. It is currently (in 8.1.6-rc-2) the default setting in *first run* mode only (which is configurable as a preference, like script editor font etc.). It can be turned off - because all that is happening is that the 'show backdrop' option is being turned ON if it has not been set, if 'First Run' is also ON. I'm honestly struggling to understand the problem here (beyond the *BUG* that meant the backdrop is actually being turned on when not in First Run mode - which it should not be and I've already said will be resolved in RC-3). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 7/19/17 2:32 pm, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: On 2017-07-19 13:25, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: "the question is this:" How many new users of LiveCode are actually "brand new" in the sense that they have NO computer programming experience at all? A significant enough percentage to make it worthwhile a vector to consider. How many of those brand new users are going to start teaching themselves LiveCode at home, and how many are going to go through a guided course in LiveCode in some kind of classroom setting? In the latter case I jalouse decisions about whether to use a backdrop and so on would be taken by the instructor rather than left to the pupils/students. For instance, on ALL the computers in my school I have the textSize in the scriptEditor jacked up to 18 using Charcoal.ttf on Macs and Ubuntu Bold.ttf on Xubuntu, and with the "classic" colourisation. The biggish, bold font in the scriptEditor is useful (for me) in that I can sit in the middle of a room with computers lining the walls and talk to indvidual kids about their scripting without shifting my b** too much. Richmond. How many brand new users are going to be "freaked out" when the desktop "they know and love" vanishes without a particularly obvious way to make it reappear without quitting LiveCode? That is a very good question, and one which will hopefully answer itself from testing it out. The important point here is perhaps that 'discovery' of how to configure these things might need to be improved (e.g. hints / explanations etc.) should it turn out to be a problem. Is this 'reappearance' of an enforced backdrop (Yes, Sports fans, it came up way back) a 'fudge' to keep people who are rooting for a unified tiddley-pom (what's it called?) of your collective back? No it is not a replacement for anything which might happen in the future. Indeed, as things from the future don't exist *now*, it can't be a replacement or fudge or any other way you might want to express it. It is working with what we have right now and trying things out to see if they make what we have right now, better (for appropriate definitions of 'better' - in this case, does it make LiveCode 'better' for starting out from scratch). Warmest Regards, Mark. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
In English: Each to his own taste, but this is not a choice. I want a short, alcoholic French drink to settle my stomach. In Lallans (Scots): Ilka mon mun dree his ain wierd, but its nae his ain juist nou, an Ahm ettlin fae sic tae settle masen. I do not stretch very far with German, I'm afraid. On 7/19/17 2:28 pm, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote: I am sorry, but my French is not so good. Google translate gave me the following translation to English: * Everyone to his taste but this, o, ent it is not a choice! I would like a digestive. But still wondering what you wanted to say. (The German translation was even more confusing) Matthias Rebbe +49 5741 31 matthiasrebbe.eu <http://matthiasrebbe.eu/> Am 19.07.2017 um 12:54 schrieb Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>: *Chacun à son gôut mais à ce ,o,ent c'est pas un choix! Je voudrais un digestif. Richmond. * On 7/19/17 1:17 pm, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote: Me too. Especially when my desktop is once again messy. And that happens quite often. The backdrop function in LC even made me write a little tool which does something similar and layers over the whole desktop to hide the mess. Very useful when i demonstrate something to others on my computer. Matthias Matthias Rebbe +49 5741 31 matthiasrebbe.eu <http://matthiasrebbe.eu/> <http://matthiasrebbe.eu/ <http://matthiasrebbe.eu/>> Am 19.07.2017 um 11:10 schrieb Roger Eller via use-livecode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>>: Personally, I have always liked, and often used a light gray backdrop to minimize distractions from the OS. It makes LiveCode feel more like a unified environment. ~Roger On Jul 19, 2017 4:55 AM, "Mark Waddingham via use-livecode" < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>> wrote: On 2017-07-19 08:56, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: Even that is a "load of old Bollo"; I'm sure that a lot of people trying out LiveCode for the first time are going to go "gae quair" when they see their desktop vanish. Possibly - but until you test such a thing, a statement either way is just conjecture... Hence why we are testing it! Admittedly, this was perhaps a slightly riskier test then something like the handler menu; although had it actually *only* affected people who were still in 'first run' mode... No-one on this list would have probably noticed, thus it would not have occasioned any comment. There will be an RC-3 which fixes that problem at least - whether or not the auto-backdrop will be kept (in first run mode) will be largely down to what the analysis of results of the testing say. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com <mailto:m...@livecode.com><mailto:m...@livecode.com <mailto:m...@livecode.com>> ~ http://www.livecode.com/ <http://www.livecode.com/><http://www.livecode.com/ <http://www.livecode.com/>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> _______ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> _______ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> Matthias Rebbe +49 5741
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 2017-07-19 13:25, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: "the question is this:" How many new users of LiveCode are actually "brand new" in the sense that they have NO computer programming experience at all? A significant enough percentage to make it worthwhile a vector to consider. How many brand new users are going to be "freaked out" when the desktop "they know and love" vanishes without a particularly obvious way to make it reappear without quitting LiveCode? That is a very good question, and one which will hopefully answer itself from testing it out. The important point here is perhaps that 'discovery' of how to configure these things might need to be improved (e.g. hints / explanations etc.) should it turn out to be a problem. Is this 'reappearance' of an enforced backdrop (Yes, Sports fans, it came up way back) a 'fudge' to keep people who are rooting for a unified tiddley-pom (what's it called?) of your collective back? No it is not a replacement for anything which might happen in the future. Indeed, as things from the future don't exist *now*, it can't be a replacement or fudge or any other way you might want to express it. It is working with what we have right now and trying things out to see if they make what we have right now, better (for appropriate definitions of 'better' - in this case, does it make LiveCode 'better' for starting out from scratch). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
I am sorry, but my French is not so good. Google translate gave me the following translation to English: * Everyone to his taste but this, o, ent it is not a choice! I would like a digestive. But still wondering what you wanted to say. (The German translation was even more confusing) Matthias Rebbe +49 5741 31 matthiasrebbe.eu <http://matthiasrebbe.eu/> > Am 19.07.2017 um 12:54 schrieb Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode > <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>: > > *Chacun à son gôut mais à ce ,o,ent c'est pas un choix! > > Je voudrais un digestif. > > Richmond. > * > On 7/19/17 1:17 pm, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> Me too. Especially when my desktop is once again messy. And that happens >> quite often. >> >> The backdrop function in LC even made me write a little tool which does >> something similar and layers over the whole desktop to hide the mess. Very >> useful when i demonstrate something to others on my computer. >> >> Matthias >> >> >> Matthias Rebbe >> +49 5741 31 >> matthiasrebbe.eu <http://matthiasrebbe.eu/> <http://matthiasrebbe.eu/ >> <http://matthiasrebbe.eu/>> >> >>> Am 19.07.2017 um 11:10 schrieb Roger Eller via use-livecode >>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> >>> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >>> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>>: >>> >>> Personally, I have always liked, and often used a light gray backdrop to >>> minimize distractions from the OS. It makes LiveCode feel more like a >>> unified environment. >>> >>> ~Roger >>> >>> On Jul 19, 2017 4:55 AM, "Mark Waddingham via use-livecode" < >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> >>> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >>> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2017-07-19 08:56, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>>> Even that is a "load of old Bollo"; I'm sure that a lot of people >>>>> trying out LiveCode for the first time >>>>> are going to go "gae quair" when they see their desktop vanish. >>>>> >>>> Possibly - but until you test such a thing, a statement either way is just >>>> conjecture... Hence why we are testing it! >>>> >>>> Admittedly, this was perhaps a slightly riskier test then something like >>>> the handler menu; although had it actually *only* affected people who were >>>> still in 'first run' mode... No-one on this list would have probably >>>> noticed, thus it would not have occasioned any comment. >>>> >>>> There will be an RC-3 which fixes that problem at least - whether or not >>>> the auto-backdrop will be kept (in first run mode) will be largely down to >>>> what the analysis of results of the testing say. >>>> >>>> Warmest Regards, >>>> >>>> Mark. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com >>>> <mailto:m...@livecode.com><mailto:m...@livecode.com >>>> <mailto:m...@livecode.com>> ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >>>> <http://www.livecode.com/><http://www.livecode.com/ >>>> <http://www.livecode.com/>> >>>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps >>>> >>>> _______ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> >>>> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >>>> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> >>>> >>> ___ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> >>> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >>> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mail
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
"the question is this:" How many new users of LiveCode are actually "brand new" in the sense that they have NO computer programming experience at all? And a few supplementary questions: How many brand new users are going to be "freaked out" when the desktop "they know and love" vanishes without a particularly obvious way to make it reappear without quitting LiveCode? Is this 'reappearance' of an enforced backdrop (Yes, Sports fans, it came up way back) a 'fudge' to keep people who are rooting for a unified tiddley-pom (what's it called?) of your collective back? Richmond. On 7/19/17 2:14 pm, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: On 2017-07-19 12:50, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: Lumpy custard! Just like your grandmother used to make?* ;) Other people who have commented on this are all "on this list"; otherwise they would have been unable to comment. Indeed - my point was simply that due to a bug which we obviously did not notice before release, the default backdrop ON option was not limited to those who were experiencing the 'first run' of the product. Thus meaning, that it affected existing users (which was not our intent). What kind of 'analysis' would that constitute? So, at the user testing session, copious notes are taken, and discussed afterwards. We also ask people involved to write up their experience and give us feedback on specific points (and generally), these are also discussed. This then allows us to have some idea how 'good' an idea is - i.e. whether it is worth its cost balanced against its effectiveness. In this case, the question is this: For brand new users of LiveCode, who have never seen it before (and quite possibly never used a programming environment before) does having a backdrop in place initially help them in their first steps with the product, particularly from the point of view of doing the first run tutorials. This is of course a slightly wooly and subjective question. However, it is probably a good idea if over 50% of people we try it out on (from various different groups - with different backgrounds) think it has actually 'helped'. Warmest Regards, Mark. P.S. As a child, I used to frequently comment on the consistency of my grandmother's custard... Her general response was "You grandfather likes it thick, boy!" ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
I've just run 8.1.6 past "my kiddos" (even though their summer classes have finished it is amazing what happens when I write "ice cream" on Facebook) and about half of them liked the backdrop, but none of them like the backdrop "as a boring colour". This is where we get all Shakespearian and start wombling on about "on which to stay one's eye". I tried them with a backdrop consisting of a textured colour (dark green tweed sort of thing) and they liked that a lot. You owe me 15 choc-ices. Richmond. On 7/19/17 2:14 pm, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: On 2017-07-19 12:50, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: Lumpy custard! Just like your grandmother used to make?* ;) Other people who have commented on this are all "on this list"; otherwise they would have been unable to comment. Indeed - my point was simply that due to a bug which we obviously did not notice before release, the default backdrop ON option was not limited to those who were experiencing the 'first run' of the product. Thus meaning, that it affected existing users (which was not our intent). What kind of 'analysis' would that constitute? So, at the user testing session, copious notes are taken, and discussed afterwards. We also ask people involved to write up their experience and give us feedback on specific points (and generally), these are also discussed. This then allows us to have some idea how 'good' an idea is - i.e. whether it is worth its cost balanced against its effectiveness. In this case, the question is this: For brand new users of LiveCode, who have never seen it before (and quite possibly never used a programming environment before) does having a backdrop in place initially help them in their first steps with the product, particularly from the point of view of doing the first run tutorials. This is of course a slightly wooly and subjective question. However, it is probably a good idea if over 50% of people we try it out on (from various different groups - with different backgrounds) think it has actually 'helped'. Warmest Regards, Mark. P.S. As a child, I used to frequently comment on the consistency of my grandmother's custard... Her general response was "You grandfather likes it thick, boy!" ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 2017-07-19 12:50, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: Lumpy custard! Just like your grandmother used to make?* ;) Other people who have commented on this are all "on this list"; otherwise they would have been unable to comment. Indeed - my point was simply that due to a bug which we obviously did not notice before release, the default backdrop ON option was not limited to those who were experiencing the 'first run' of the product. Thus meaning, that it affected existing users (which was not our intent). What kind of 'analysis' would that constitute? So, at the user testing session, copious notes are taken, and discussed afterwards. We also ask people involved to write up their experience and give us feedback on specific points (and generally), these are also discussed. This then allows us to have some idea how 'good' an idea is - i.e. whether it is worth its cost balanced against its effectiveness. In this case, the question is this: For brand new users of LiveCode, who have never seen it before (and quite possibly never used a programming environment before) does having a backdrop in place initially help them in their first steps with the product, particularly from the point of view of doing the first run tutorials. This is of course a slightly wooly and subjective question. However, it is probably a good idea if over 50% of people we try it out on (from various different groups - with different backgrounds) think it has actually 'helped'. Warmest Regards, Mark. P.S. As a child, I used to frequently comment on the consistency of my grandmother's custard... Her general response was "You grandfather likes it thick, boy!" -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
As Mark Waddingham expressed, it was only a test. At least it wasn't tested in a GM release. All the fuss about it making LC unusable is a stretch. Matthias gave me an idea, so I made a small stack containing the image which is applied to my desktop as a background, and I saved that to my plugins folder. EASY way to clean the desktop of icon mess!!! This would be a great standard menu item: "Use my desktop image as backdrop". ~Roger On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 6:54 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > *Chacun à son gôut mais à ce ,o,ent c'est pas un choix! > > Je voudrais un digestif. > > Richmond. > * > On 7/19/17 1:17 pm, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > >> Me too. Especially when my desktop is once again messy. And that happens >> quite often. >> >> The backdrop function in LC even made me write a little tool which does >> something similar and layers over the whole desktop to hide the mess. Very >> useful when i demonstrate something to others on my computer. >> >> Matthias >> >> >> Matthias Rebbe >> +49 5741 31 >> matthiasrebbe.eu <http://matthiasrebbe.eu/> >> >> Am 19.07.2017 um 11:10 schrieb Roger Eller via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>: >>> >>> Personally, I have always liked, and often used a light gray backdrop to >>> minimize distractions from the OS. It makes LiveCode feel more like a >>> unified environment. >>> >>> ~Roger >>> >>> ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
*Chacun à son gôut mais à ce ,o,ent c'est pas un choix! Je voudrais un digestif. Richmond. * On 7/19/17 1:17 pm, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote: Me too. Especially when my desktop is once again messy. And that happens quite often. The backdrop function in LC even made me write a little tool which does something similar and layers over the whole desktop to hide the mess. Very useful when i demonstrate something to others on my computer. Matthias Matthias Rebbe +49 5741 31 matthiasrebbe.eu <http://matthiasrebbe.eu/> Am 19.07.2017 um 11:10 schrieb Roger Eller via use-livecode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>: Personally, I have always liked, and often used a light gray backdrop to minimize distractions from the OS. It makes LiveCode feel more like a unified environment. ~Roger On Jul 19, 2017 4:55 AM, "Mark Waddingham via use-livecode" < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote: On 2017-07-19 08:56, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: Even that is a "load of old Bollo"; I'm sure that a lot of people trying out LiveCode for the first time are going to go "gae quair" when they see their desktop vanish. Possibly - but until you test such a thing, a statement either way is just conjecture... Hence why we are testing it! Admittedly, this was perhaps a slightly riskier test then something like the handler menu; although had it actually *only* affected people who were still in 'first run' mode... No-one on this list would have probably noticed, thus it would not have occasioned any comment. There will be an RC-3 which fixes that problem at least - whether or not the auto-backdrop will be kept (in first run mode) will be largely down to what the analysis of results of the testing say. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com <mailto:m...@livecode.com> ~ http://www.livecode.com/ <http://www.livecode.com/> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 7/19/17 11:55 am, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: On 2017-07-19 08:56, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: Even that is a "load of old Bollo"; I'm sure that a lot of people trying out LiveCode for the first time are going to go "gae quair" when they see their desktop vanish. Possibly - but until you test such a thing, a statement either way is just conjecture... Hence why we are testing it! Admittedly, this was perhaps a slightly riskier test then something like the handler menu; although had it actually *only* affected people who were still in 'first run' mode... No-one on this list would have probably noticed, thus it would not have occasioned any comment. Lumpy custard! Other people who have commented on this are all "on this list"; otherwise they would have been unable to comment. I noticed the backdrop because "there it was" when, having installed 8.1.6 RC 2, I started it up (Mac OS). I have just installed that on Linux (64-bit) and got the backdrop at startup as well. I did say a "few rude words", but did not bother to comment on it until others raised the issue as it did not fuss me unduly . . . There will be an RC-3 which fixes that problem at least - whether or not the auto-backdrop will be kept (in first run mode) will be largely down to what the analysis of results of the testing say. What kind of 'analysis' would that constitute? Richmond. Warmest Regards, Mark. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
Me too. Especially when my desktop is once again messy. And that happens quite often. The backdrop function in LC even made me write a little tool which does something similar and layers over the whole desktop to hide the mess. Very useful when i demonstrate something to others on my computer. Matthias Matthias Rebbe +49 5741 31 matthiasrebbe.eu <http://matthiasrebbe.eu/> > Am 19.07.2017 um 11:10 schrieb Roger Eller via use-livecode > <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>: > > Personally, I have always liked, and often used a light gray backdrop to > minimize distractions from the OS. It makes LiveCode feel more like a > unified environment. > > ~Roger > > On Jul 19, 2017 4:55 AM, "Mark Waddingham via use-livecode" < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote: > >> On 2017-07-19 08:56, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> Even that is a "load of old Bollo"; I'm sure that a lot of people >>> trying out LiveCode for the first time >>> are going to go "gae quair" when they see their desktop vanish. >>> >> >> Possibly - but until you test such a thing, a statement either way is just >> conjecture... Hence why we are testing it! >> >> Admittedly, this was perhaps a slightly riskier test then something like >> the handler menu; although had it actually *only* affected people who were >> still in 'first run' mode... No-one on this list would have probably >> noticed, thus it would not have occasioned any comment. >> >> There will be an RC-3 which fixes that problem at least - whether or not >> the auto-backdrop will be kept (in first run mode) will be largely down to >> what the analysis of results of the testing say. >> >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. >> >> -- >> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com <mailto:m...@livecode.com> ~ >> http://www.livecode.com/ <http://www.livecode.com/> >> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps >> >> ___ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
Personally, I have always liked, and often used a light gray backdrop to minimize distractions from the OS. It makes LiveCode feel more like a unified environment. ~Roger On Jul 19, 2017 4:55 AM, "Mark Waddingham via use-livecode" < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 2017-07-19 08:56, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > >> Even that is a "load of old Bollo"; I'm sure that a lot of people >> trying out LiveCode for the first time >> are going to go "gae quair" when they see their desktop vanish. >> > > Possibly - but until you test such a thing, a statement either way is just > conjecture... Hence why we are testing it! > > Admittedly, this was perhaps a slightly riskier test then something like > the handler menu; although had it actually *only* affected people who were > still in 'first run' mode... No-one on this list would have probably > noticed, thus it would not have occasioned any comment. > > There will be an RC-3 which fixes that problem at least - whether or not > the auto-backdrop will be kept (in first run mode) will be largely down to > what the analysis of results of the testing say. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 2017-07-19 08:56, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: Even that is a "load of old Bollo"; I'm sure that a lot of people trying out LiveCode for the first time are going to go "gae quair" when they see their desktop vanish. Possibly - but until you test such a thing, a statement either way is just conjecture... Hence why we are testing it! Admittedly, this was perhaps a slightly riskier test then something like the handler menu; although had it actually *only* affected people who were still in 'first run' mode... No-one on this list would have probably noticed, thus it would not have occasioned any comment. There will be an RC-3 which fixes that problem at least - whether or not the auto-backdrop will be kept (in first run mode) will be largely down to what the analysis of results of the testing say. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
The backdrop is a problem for the linux platform since I'm with LiveCode (4 years now). If you ever click on linux into the backdrop you are lost. That's why this was my first Raspi stack: a 'work-around' for that. (Raspi stacks collection #1) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
"only set the backdrop if users were still in the first run mode of the start center." Even that is a "load of old Bollo"; I'm sure that a lot of people trying out LiveCode for the first time are going to go "gae quair" when they see their desktop vanish. I really wonder if anyone, anywhere ever uses the backdrop? Richmond. On 7/19/17 6:55 am, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: On 19 Jul 2017, at 1:42 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: Yep. LiveCode (any version) is now completely unusable for me. Completely unusable might be overstating things a touch don’t you think? There is a menu to remove the backdrop (View > Backdrop). Looking at the PR it was meant to only set the backdrop if users were still in the first run mode of the start center. We will need to investigate why it has impacted others. Cheers Monte ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
I got that as well ; not good. Richmond. On 7/19/17 2:37 am, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: I haven't seen this type of user abuse since StarOffice 4 . . . Opening 8.1.6-rc2 turns on a backdrop. (Mac Sierra) Even worse, it sets a default so that launching RC1 has that backdrop. It took me a while to figure out what the evil sheet over my desktop was . . . (staroffice 4 bit into that "take over the whole screen, and *we* are the windowing authority. I stayed with 3 until 5 came out . . .) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
Do your keyboard shortcuts work Mark? You could use Ctrl+M to pop open the message box, and set the backdrop to none, then toggle it on and off via the View menu, then hopefully it should be gone from your preferences. On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 6:25 AM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Don't know if it helps, but I didn't see this behavior. I frequently turn > on the backdrop when screen sharing and turn it off later. I wonder if the > problem only occurs if there is no preference set yet? > > Mac OS X El Capitan. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > On July 18, 2017 11:12:23 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode > <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > On 07/18/2017 08:55 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: > >> > >>> On 19 Jul 2017, at 1:42 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode > >>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> Yep. LiveCode (any version) is now completely unusable for me. > >> > >> Completely unusable might be overstating things a touch don’t you think? > >> There is a menu to remove the backdrop (View > Backdrop). Looking at > the PR > >> it was meant to only set the backdrop if users were still in the first > run > >> mode of the start center. We will need to investigate why it has > impacted > >> others. > > > > Nothing but a backdrop. Takes over the screen. Everything else is hidden > > behind the gray featureless backdrop. I had to alt-tab to a terminal > > window (what if I didn't have one already running?) in order to kill -9 > > livecode. > > > > And that means that there's no way to access the menu to undo the > > damage. I had to remove my preferences files (which incidentally grew by > > a couple of orders of magnitude) and recreate them. > > > > No. I don't think that's overstating things *a touch* > > > > -- > > Mark Wieder > > ahsoftw...@gmail.com > > > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
Don't know if it helps, but I didn't see this behavior. I frequently turn on the backdrop when screen sharing and turn it off later. I wonder if the problem only occurs if there is no preference set yet? Mac OS X El Capitan. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On July 18, 2017 11:12:23 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: On 07/18/2017 08:55 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: On 19 Jul 2017, at 1:42 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: Yep. LiveCode (any version) is now completely unusable for me. Completely unusable might be overstating things a touch don’t you think? There is a menu to remove the backdrop (View > Backdrop). Looking at the PR it was meant to only set the backdrop if users were still in the first run mode of the start center. We will need to investigate why it has impacted others. Nothing but a backdrop. Takes over the screen. Everything else is hidden behind the gray featureless backdrop. I had to alt-tab to a terminal window (what if I didn't have one already running?) in order to kill -9 livecode. And that means that there's no way to access the menu to undo the damage. I had to remove my preferences files (which incidentally grew by a couple of orders of magnitude) and recreate them. No. I don't think that's overstating things *a touch* -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
> On 19 Jul 2017, at 2:10 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode > <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Nothing but a backdrop. Takes over the screen. Everything else is hidden > behind the gray featureless backdrop. I had to alt-tab to a terminal window > (what if I didn't have one already running?) in order to kill -9 livecode. > > And that means that there's no way to access the menu to undo the damage. I > had to remove my preferences files (which incidentally grew by a couple of > orders of magnitude) and recreate them. > > No. I don't think that's overstating things *a touch* So you had no access to either the view menu to change the setting or the file menu to exit normally? That is odd and it appears you reported it a while ago http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17323 <http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17323> Well a fix for one or the other is going to be a blocker for this release Cheers Monte ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 07/18/2017 08:55 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: On 19 Jul 2017, at 1:42 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: Yep. LiveCode (any version) is now completely unusable for me. Completely unusable might be overstating things a touch don’t you think? There is a menu to remove the backdrop (View > Backdrop). Looking at the PR it was meant to only set the backdrop if users were still in the first run mode of the start center. We will need to investigate why it has impacted others. Nothing but a backdrop. Takes over the screen. Everything else is hidden behind the gray featureless backdrop. I had to alt-tab to a terminal window (what if I didn't have one already running?) in order to kill -9 livecode. And that means that there's no way to access the menu to undo the damage. I had to remove my preferences files (which incidentally grew by a couple of orders of magnitude) and recreate them. No. I don't think that's overstating things *a touch* -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
> On 19 Jul 2017, at 1:42 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode > <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Yep. LiveCode (any version) is now completely unusable for me. Completely unusable might be overstating things a touch don’t you think? There is a menu to remove the backdrop (View > Backdrop). Looking at the PR it was meant to only set the backdrop if users were still in the first run mode of the start center. We will need to investigate why it has impacted others. Cheers Monte ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
On 07/18/2017 04:37 PM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: I haven't seen this type of user abuse since StarOffice 4 . . . Opening 8.1.6-rc2 turns on a backdrop. (Mac Sierra) Even worse, it sets a default so that launching RC1 has that backdrop. It took me a while to figure out what the evil sheet over my desktop was . . . (staroffice 4 bit into that "take over the whole screen, and *we* are the windowing authority. I stayed with 3 until 5 came out . . .) Yep. LiveCode (any version) is now completely unusable for me. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Bug 20117: new rc2 sets a backdrop, and preferences for same
I haven't seen this type of user abuse since StarOffice 4 . . . Opening 8.1.6-rc2 turns on a backdrop. (Mac Sierra) Even worse, it sets a default so that launching RC1 has that backdrop. It took me a while to figure out what the evil sheet over my desktop was . . . (staroffice 4 bit into that "take over the whole screen, and *we* are the windowing authority. I stayed with 3 until 5 came out . . .) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Where LC store preferences in Windows 10?
Thanks a lot Panos and Phil, I trashed the whole RunRev folder from the prefrences and tried again. It loaded! Yaaay! Again, thanks for the help, you're awesome! Om om andre On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Phil Davis via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Andre, > > Might the prefs be in the registry instead? (Seems unlikely, but just > trying to cover all possibilities) > > Phil Davis > > > On 1/8/17 11:24 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: > >> Hey Friends, >> >> Just a crash on my surface yesterday and now LC doesn't launch. Removed >> all >> the dozen versions I had installed and reinstalled 8.1.2 but it still >> doesn't launch. >> >> If this was on a Mac I'd go to the preferences folder and trash the runrev >> files there but on Windows I have no idea where that is. Can someone point >> me to the correct location? >> >> om om >> andre >> >> > -- > Phil Davis > > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Where LC store preferences in Windows 10?
Hi Andre, See in C:/Users/your_user_name/AppData/Roaming/RunRev/Preferences/ folder You should see one or two files there: livecode.rev --> Prefs for LiveCode versions < 7 livecode7.rev --> Prefs for LiveCode 7 and 8 and 9 I suggest removing both of them. Best, Panos -- On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hey Friends, > > Just a crash on my surface yesterday and now LC doesn't launch. Removed all > the dozen versions I had installed and reinstalled 8.1.2 but it still > doesn't launch. > > If this was on a Mac I'd go to the preferences folder and trash the runrev > files there but on Windows I have no idea where that is. Can someone point > me to the correct location? > > om om > andre > > -- > http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. > http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Where LC store preferences in Windows 10?
Hi Andre, Might the prefs be in the registry instead? (Seems unlikely, but just trying to cover all possibilities) Phil Davis On 1/8/17 11:24 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: Hey Friends, Just a crash on my surface yesterday and now LC doesn't launch. Removed all the dozen versions I had installed and reinstalled 8.1.2 but it still doesn't launch. If this was on a Mac I'd go to the preferences folder and trash the runrev files there but on Windows I have no idea where that is. Can someone point me to the correct location? om om andre -- Phil Davis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Where LC store preferences in Windows 10?
Hey Friends, Just a crash on my surface yesterday and now LC doesn't launch. Removed all the dozen versions I had installed and reinstalled 8.1.2 but it still doesn't launch. If this was on a Mac I'd go to the preferences folder and trash the runrev files there but on Windows I have no idea where that is. Can someone point me to the correct location? om om andre -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
AW: AW: Slightly] "Standard" file extension for a preferences file?
I am using standard .xml extension, I have never tested, if revXML handles other extensions too, or if it needs the .xml extension. Tiemo -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Paul Dupuis Gesendet: Montag, 12. Dezember 2016 22:10 An: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Betreff: Re: AW: Slightly] "Standard" file extension for a preferences file? On 12/12/2016 12:58 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > I don't know, what the "how to" standard would be. I am using an .xml > file for my preferences, because it's easy and safe to write and read. > Tiemo Just wanted to confirm you use a .xml file extension vs some other extension on an XML file to obscure the format to prevent people from messing with it with XML tools. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Slightly] "Standard" file extension for a preferences file?
My understanding is that OS X prefs files are xml based but the file extension is .plist. Bob S > On Dec 12, 2016, at 13:09 , Paul Dupuis <p...@researchware.com> wrote: > > On 12/12/2016 12:58 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: >> I don't know, what the "how to" standard would be. I am using an .xml file >> for my preferences, because it's easy and safe to write and read. >> Tiemo > Just wanted to confirm you use a .xml file extension vs some other > extension on an XML file to obscure the format to prevent people from > messing with it with XML tools. > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: AW: Slightly] "Standard" file extension for a preferences file?
On 12/12/2016 12:58 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: > I don't know, what the "how to" standard would be. I am using an .xml file > for my preferences, because it's easy and safe to write and read. > Tiemo Just wanted to confirm you use a .xml file extension vs some other extension on an XML file to obscure the format to prevent people from messing with it with XML tools. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
AW: Slightly] "Standard" file extension for a preferences file?
I don't know, what the "how to" standard would be. I am using an .xml file for my preferences, because it's easy and safe to write and read. Tiemo -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Paul Dupuis Gesendet: Montag, 12. Dezember 2016 17:50 An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> Betreff: [OT: Slightly] "Standard" file extension for a preferences file? So, the debate of the morning here is: Is there a standard or common (most frequently used) convention for the file extension for a preferences or options file that is common between Windows and OSX and Linux? Or for that matter iOS and Android as well? I've see .CFG [Configuration File] and .INI [Initialization File] or .PRF [Preferences or Profile File] as well as the more common .TXT, or .DAT. I have also see .prefs and .preferences in use. I have also see a couple attempts are a "proprietary" extensions - for example is a software products is called XYZ Writer, the preferences file extension may be something like .xyzprefs. What do people on the list use? Are there any standards or most common conventions? Google didn't see to find anything for me that suggests there are any standards. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
[OT: Slightly] "Standard" file extension for a preferences file?
So, the debate of the morning here is: Is there a standard or common (most frequently used) convention for the file extension for a preferences or options file that is common between Windows and OSX and Linux? Or for that matter iOS and Android as well? I've see .CFG [Configuration File] and .INI [Initialization File] or .PRF [Preferences or Profile File] as well as the more common .TXT, or .DAT. I have also see .prefs and .preferences in use. I have also see a couple attempts are a "proprietary" extensions - for example is a software products is called XYZ Writer, the preferences file extension may be something like .xyzprefs. What do people on the list use? Are there any standards or most common conventions? Google didn't see to find anything for me that suggests there are any standards. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
LC 8.1.1 (all all other versions) Doomed until Deleting livecode7.rev (preferences file)
downloaded 8.1.1 praying that the bug of the disappearing properties inspector is fixed nothing worked… preopenstack failed in the msg box. break points did nothing. reverted to 8.1.1 RC2 same issues. on a hunch deleted /library/preferences/RunRev/livecode7.rev rebooted 8.1.1 everything works now… had to go back and reset all prefs ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Preferences file
On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 5:43 AM, Mark Wieder <mwie...@ahsoftware.net> wrote: > Don't know why it wasn't there earlier today. > Took the cats to the vet, came back, and there it was. > Mountain Lion was the last cat friendly OS X. ;-) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Preferences file
On 03/30/2016 11:41 AM, Colin Holgate wrote: /Users/mark/Library/Preferences/RunRev/livecode7.rev Thanks. Don't know why it wasn't there earlier today. Took the cats to the vet, came back, and there it was. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Preferences file
On 03/30/2016 11:37 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote: Isn't it in /Users/username/Library/Preferences/RunRev/ ? Interesting. That's where I was looking, and it wasn't there earlier. Now it is. Thanks. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Preferences file
Seems to be here: /Users/colin/Library/Preferences/RunRev/livecode7.rev or maybe: /Users/mark/Library/Preferences/RunRev/livecode7.rev in your case. Bit of OS X trivia: if you select the above text and right-click on it, you can choose Reveal in Finder from the Services menu. > On Mar 30, 2016, at 2:26 PM, Mark Wieder <mwie...@ahsoftware.net> wrote: > > livecode7.rev ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Preferences file
Isn't it in /Users/username/Library/Preferences/RunRev/ ? On 30 Mar 2016 19:26, "Mark Wieder" <mwie...@ahsoftware.net> wrote: > Having finally taken the plunge and upgraded to El Capitan, I'm having > trouble locating the LC8 livecode7.rev preferences file. It's not where I > expected it to be. Can someone clue me in as to where to find it? > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftw...@gmail.com > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Preferences file
Having finally taken the plunge and upgraded to El Capitan, I'm having trouble locating the LC8 livecode7.rev preferences file. It's not where I expected it to be. Can someone clue me in as to where to find it? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: iOS not liking specialFolderPath(Preferences)
Dr. Hawkins wrote: On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 7:53 PM, John Dixon wrote: In general you should only create files within the documents, cache, and temporary folders. But I'm not even to the point of accessing a file when this happens. This his happening by my *asking* where that folder is . . . And this line was not causing a crash back in January. If it's crashing in the simulator but not on the device it may be a problem with the simulator configuration. If it crashes on both it may be a bug in LiveCode. But I think John's main point was that there is no Preferences folder on iOS. See the Dictionary entry for specialFolderPath for a list of supported constants available for each OS. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: iOS not liking specialFolderPath(Preferences)
On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 7:53 PM, John Dixon dixo...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: In general you should only create files within the documents, cache, and temporary folders. Indeed, be careful not to change or add any files within the application bundle. The application bundle is digitally signed when it is built, and any changes to it after this point will invalidate the signature and prevent it from launching. But I'm not even to the point of accessing a file when this happens. This his happening by my *asking* where that folder is . . . And this line was not causing a crash back in January. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode