subject:"Re\: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited"


On 11/05/15 01:46, Dr. Hawkins wrote:

On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Lynn Fredricks 
lfredri...@proactive-intl.com wrote:


I think this one may have been a good thing. MS is retooling their OS
strategy and it looks like there will be better integration and
compatibility between various platforms.


That's just the cover story.

What they're  *actually* doing is ramping up, of all things, vacuum cleaner
production.

Odd as it sounds, they figured out that there's a huge demand for a
microsoft product, any microsoft product, that doesn't suck  . . .



It does sound odd; especially as it has taken them about 20 years to 
work it out.


Richmond.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 12:27 AM, Peter W A Wood peterwaw...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Any app using emoticons or emoji or whatever they are called will be using
 Unicode.


emoji, yes, but that seems like a razor-thin use case. I wonder how many
apps implement their own image-based solution rather than be limited to the
few hundred glyphs in the unicode emoji set.
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited


 On 10 May 2015, at 20:39, Mark Waddingham m...@livecode.com wrote:
 
 will have much better performance than equivalent code written in LCS


Will the rendering performance of a Widget (as opposed to the running of a 
script) be faster than a control currently rendered by the LC engine?

So as an example, will a button rendered to the screen as a widget render to 
the screen faster than a button rendered in say 6.7.4?


All the best

Terry
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Mark Schonewille 
m.schonewi...@economy-x-talk.com wrote:

 Software should be unicode-compatible nowadays. This is what users and
 developers expect. So, I would say 100%.


I think of myself as a developer. Everything I do these days is in-house,
and has absolutely no need of unicode. The most recent thing I worked on
for others is Navigator, and no one has ever asked me for a unicode version
of that. The last app I worked on before that has been selling for the past
12 years or so, internationally, and no one has asked for a unicode version
of that. Maybe I'm unique, but for my personal use cases, unicode is
irrelevant, and given the opportunity costs and performance hits, a
negative.
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited


On 11/05/15 09:20, Geoff Canyon wrote:

On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Mark Schonewille 
m.schonewi...@economy-x-talk.com wrote:


Software should be unicode-compatible nowadays. This is what users and
developers expect. So, I would say 100%.


I think of myself as a developer. Everything I do these days is in-house,
and has absolutely no need of unicode. The most recent thing I worked on
for others is Navigator, and no one has ever asked me for a unicode version
of that. The last app I worked on before that has been selling for the past
12 years or so, internationally, and no one has asked for a unicode version
of that. Maybe I'm unique, but for my personal use cases, unicode is
irrelevant, and given the opportunity costs and performance hits, a
negative.
___



This is why LiveCode needs to be modularized, so one can opt-in or not 
as the case may
be for what capabilities you require when it comes to hiving off a 
standalone.


Richmond.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 12:30 AM, Lynn Fredricks 
lfredri...@proactive-intl.com wrote:

 iOS is the odd ball in that it represents not only the platform itself, but
 also the means of delivery (with the exception of the weirdness Apple has
 implemented for iOS corporate applications). With the exception of early
 adopter types and very specific vertical markets, consumer software buyers
 are extremely reluctant to buy something in a language they cannot
 understand.

 The US market for applications is dependent on applications with UI's in
 English; the lack of multi-lingual support even if not used acts as a
 disqualifer to sales.

 Don't underestimate the effect of disqualifiers. No Unicode support is a
 massive disqualifier.


This is why I asked, hoping for a response from someone who shops the Greek
app store, or the Japanese app store. Those are the ones who would know the
percentage.
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Monte Goulding


 On 11 May 2015, at 4:24 pm, Geoff Canyon gcan...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 This is why I asked, hoping for a response from someone who shops the Greek
 app store, or the Japanese app store. Those are the ones who would know the
 percentage.

What percentage are you looking for? All native apps would use unicode because 
that’s the encoding of the strings files. Whether they are internationalised is 
probably what you mean… is it? Are you wondering the percentage of apps that 
are internationalised with different text for each language?

Cheers

Monte

--
M E R Goulding http://goulding.ws/ 
Software development services
Bespoke application development for vertical markets

mergExt http://mergext.com/ - There's an external for that!

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Mark Waddingham

I think of myself as a developer. Everything I do these days is 
in-house,
and has absolutely no need of unicode. The most recent thing I worked 
on
for others is Navigator, and no one has ever asked me for a unicode 
version
of that. The last app I worked on before that has been selling for the 
past
12 years or so, internationally, and no one has asked for a unicode 
version

of that. Maybe I'm unique, but for my personal use cases, unicode is
irrelevant, and given the opportunity costs and performance hits, a
negative.


Not unique perhaps, but 'fortunate'?

Whether or not your application's use unicode directly is not the issue 
- beyond direct localization of your interface, a lot of strings come 
into your app from outside sources which you cannot control (of course 
this largely depends on the target of the app - I guess in-house might 
be slight more controllable).


If you have an app that processes arbitrary files on disk, then unless 
you are going to limit your users to Western European languages in their 
choice of filenames then you need unicode (can you really control the 
filenames end users might want to use)?


If you have an app that is customized by user's personal details, then 
unless you are going to force your users to only use Western European 
characters for their name, address etc, then you need unicode.


If you have an app that uses the system date format, then unless you are 
going to force your users to only use a Western European locale setting, 
then you need unicode.


Ultimately anyone who is writing apps for any platform and intends to 
distribute them widely (whether localized or not) really does need 
Unicode support - if only to ensure that any edge-cases (such as unicode 
containing filenames, unicode containing locales and such) don't cause 
your app to break.


--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited


I'm not entirely sure what seamless means . . . but

if I open a stack authored in LC 4.5 where I have script lines like this:

set the unicodeText of fld TEKST to numToChar(12345)

things don't work.

Were I convinced of the necessity of converting my source stack of my 
Devawriter Pro
(and my other language processing tools) to 7+ I would have to alter one 
h*ll of a lot

of code.

Of course if I could see a reason to justify that I would grab 5 litres 
of strong coffee,

some matchsticks to prop my eyelids open, and get down to some serious work.

But I cannot.

Richmond.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

There has got to be something serious awry when Bjoernke agrees with
Richmond.

Richmond.

On 05/11/2015 03:05 AM, Bjoernke von Gierke wrote:

There is no communication about any aspect other then widgets, which frankly, still look
like an easier way to make externals to me, nothing more. How many people actually
currently make externals? about 1% of the user base, probably even less. If this is
increased 5 times by some sort of not quite but similar to x-talk language,
that's certainly slightly better for the platform and the community. While also making
some in-house tasks for RunRev easier, I guess. I don't care much about any of that, and
I think the benefits are not offset by the pain of maintaining a second language.

Meanwhile the GUI is shoddy, documentation quality, presentation and amount is
the same as it was ten years ago, and community interaction is inexistent or at
it's best emergency-reaction based (like just now). There's no version that
comes even close to 5.5 in stability. Which is especially sad, because 5.5 is
at best an one-eyed man among all the other blind versions of LC/RR when
considering stability. My last run in with quality was that the current
versions in February could not be used as a server, sockets would just randomly
work or not, where the same project under 6.6.5 worked perfectly fine.

Adding unicode is nice, but making all text handling slower by half (sometimes even 30
times slower) is not going to convince me to start using 7 (ignoring the added stability
hit compared even to current 6 versions). Especially as the only actual difference for my
needs is that I am not allowed to use uni-en/decode, but instead two syntactical
different (but functionally completely the same) terms. Sure nice for non-latin
scriptures users to have a slow version of LC just for them tho.. I guess? But basically,
this is not what I expect from seamless unicode support. Therefore, I
consider the unicode part of the kickstarter unfulfilled.

The same goes for skinning. Promised as part of the kickstarter, this now sounds like a can change
colours checkbox for the new widgets/externals. Sure is nice, but certainly not what I'd expect when I
hear make your own themes. Sounds like this is only for those people who want to deal with
another scripting language, and in LC it affects only those parts that are compatible with widgets. Instead
of adding community made themes to the os 9 (emulated) menu, or improving on how object style
inheritance works, or any other approach to making themes actually easier, it's just gonna be some objects,
made by some people, for some cases... Sounds to me like the same as it is now. I'f I'm right with this
assessment, theming is not going to be fulfilled in my eyes.

Funnily I think what RunRev is doing is... ok... Well, I guess that's up for
debate, but it certainly looks like RunRev is happy with the approach that
they've chosen to make the LC product better. I just wish they'd get their act
together about finally improving _how_ they go about things.

For starters, how about never, ever, ever replying to a complaint or comment with
We will eventually somewhen do exactly what you asked for (seriously, never
say that!).

Björnke

PS: Not fulfilling kickstarter promises is Ok for me. It's just saddening that
I expected unhappy supporters, since the first day I heard RunRev is going to
do crowdfunding. They're just not capable of communicating, which makes
attempts at crowd-anything futile.

Chat with other LC people:
http://bjoernke.com/chatrev

Use a better dictionary in the IDE:
http://www.bjoernke.com/bvgdocu

Try chartsEngine:
https://livecode.com/store/marketplace/charts-engine-1-2-1

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Mark Waddingham


On 2015-05-11 02:05, Bjoernke von Gierke wrote:

Adding unicode is nice, but making all text handling slower by half
(sometimes even 30 times slower) is not going to convince me to start
using 7 (ignoring the added stability hit compared even to current 6
versions). Especially as the only actual difference for my needs is
that I am not allowed to use uni-en/decode, but instead two
syntactical different (but functionally completely the same) terms.
Sure nice for non-latin scriptures users to have a slow version of LC
just for them tho.. I guess? But basically, this is not what I expect
from seamless unicode support. Therefore, I consider the unicode
part of the kickstarter unfulfilled.


Well that's your opinion - but I certainly don't agree with your 
assessment.


'seamless unicode support' means that you can load a stack developed in 
an older version and it will work, and assuming you aren't doing 
intimate text processing which requires knowledge of Unicode to be 
'correct' then it will work with both unicode and non-unicode inputs 
whereas before it wouldn't have been able to handle unicode at all.


As a case in point, I just opened up revNavigator from the plugins menu 
- and it works in 7. Indeed, if I have objects with Unicode names, 
revNavigator still works perfectly, displaying precisely what you would 
expect. There was no need for me to modify the code, nor do anything to 
the stack.


In regards to textEncode / textDecode then they were introduced because 
they have the correct semantics for dealing with the notion of 'text' 
which is may or may not be unicode (whether it is or not shouldn't, in 
general, be a concern to the scripter).


It is important to remember that uniEncode and uniDecode work with 
UTF-16 binary data - not with text strings - and if, for example, you 
want to encode a string as UTF-8 you have to use:

  get uniDecode(uniEncode(tMyString), utf8)
with textDecode it is just:
  get textEncode(tMyString, UTF8)
Given the operation being performed here is 'encoding a string to UTF8', 
I think the latter makes a great deal more sense.



The same goes for skinning. Promised as part of the kickstarter, this
now sounds like a can change colours checkbox for the new
widgets/externals. Sure is nice, but certainly not what I'd expect
when I hear make your own themes. Sounds like this is only for those
people who want to deal with another scripting language, and in LC it
affects only those parts that are compatible with widgets. Instead of
adding community made themes to the os 9 (emulated) menu, or
improving on how object style inheritance works, or any other approach
to making themes actually easier, it's just gonna be some objects,
made by some people, for some cases... Sounds to me like the same as
it is now. I'f I'm right with this assessment, theming is not going to
be fulfilled in my eyes.


You are incorrect here. The themeing library we are working on will be 
pluggable - it needs to be, as it at least has to account for both 
emulated and native themes on the various platforms we support.


There isn't a 'magical' way to make controls automatically theme with 
pluggable themes (which is what you seem to be suggesting that there is) 
- the controls have to be written in such a way to use the themeing 
library (which our widgets will be, and a developer of widgets can 
choose to use the library if they wish).


--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Mark Waddingham


On 2015-05-11 10:34, Richmond wrote:

I'm not entirely sure what seamless means . . . but

if I open a stack authored in LC 4.5 where I have script lines like 
this:


set the unicodeText of fld TEKST to numToChar(12345)

things don't work.


Which was why I qualified what I said with the term 'initimate text 
processing' - which Devawriter certainly does as it builds up Unicode 
strings out of component codepoint parts rather than just manipulating 
characters and other chunks.


In this case I tried:

set the useUnicode to true
set the unicodeText of fld TEKST to numToChar(12345)

And it seemed to work in 7...

In 5.5 we changed the meaning of the 'char' chunk in a field so that you 
didn't have to mess around with bytes when dealing with Unicode - I 
suspect this is probably a big part of why Devawriter doesn't port 
forward to 7, rather than 7 itself.


--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited


On 11/05/15 12:50, Mark Waddingham wrote:

On 2015-05-11 10:34, Richmond wrote:

I'm not entirely sure what seamless means . . . but

if I open a stack authored in LC 4.5 where I have script lines like 
this:


set the unicodeText of fld TEKST to numToChar(12345)

things don't work.


Which was why I qualified what I said with the term 'initimate text 
processing' - which Devawriter certainly does as it builds up Unicode 
strings out of component codepoint parts rather than just manipulating 
characters and other chunks.


In this case I tried:

set the useUnicode to true
set the unicodeText of fld TEKST to numToChar(12345)

And it seemed to work in 7...

In 5.5 we changed the meaning of the 'char' chunk in a field so that 
you didn't have to mess around with bytes when dealing with Unicode - 
I suspect this is probably a big part of why Devawriter doesn't port 
forward to 7, rather than 7 itself.




Possibly. I have to find time to work that one out.

Thanks.

Richmond.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Bjoernke von Gierke

 I’m kind of surprised that the seller of a charting package can’t see the 
 potential for implementing them as widgets. Much faster to render and able to 
 do things like rotated text easily.
 
 Cheers
 
 Monte

Sure, Widgets do things that LC can't do. I do however want LC to be able to do 
stuff. In a similar vein, I'd want to use LC to access sql and xml. Instead, 
I'm using C-style functions. It's not xTalk, just like widgets (at least right 
now) are not LC.


--

Chat with other LC people:
http://bjoernke.com/chatrev

Use a better dictionary in the IDE:
http://www.bjoernke.com/bvgdocu

Try chartsEngine:
https://livecode.com/store/marketplace/charts-engine-1-2-1



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

I suppose so, yes. For example, Fruit Ninja: the version I have installed
may use unicode, as you say, but all its characters are plain english/ascii
characters. But maybe there's a Lithuanian Fruit Ninja where unicode is
needed? I don't know.

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 1:29 AM, Monte Goulding mo...@sweattechnologies.com
 wrote:


  On 11 May 2015, at 4:24 pm, Geoff Canyon gcan...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  This is why I asked, hoping for a response from someone who shops the
 Greek
  app store, or the Japanese app store. Those are the ones who would know
 the
  percentage.

 What percentage are you looking for? All native apps would use unicode
 because that’s the encoding of the strings files. Whether they are
 internationalised is probably what you mean… is it? Are you wondering the
 percentage of apps that are internationalised with different text for each
 language?

 Cheers

 Monte

 --
 M E R Goulding http://goulding.ws/
 Software development services
 Bespoke application development for vertical markets

 mergExt http://mergext.com/ - There's an external for that!

 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Mark Waddingham m...@livecode.com wrote:

 As a case in point, I just opened up revNavigator from the plugins menu -
 and it works in 7. Indeed, if I have objects with Unicode names,
 revNavigator still works perfectly, displaying precisely what you would
 expect. There was no need for me to modify the code, nor do anything to the
 stack.


Ha, way to hit me where I live :-) Are developers really naming objects
with unicode-only names? Why? It's not like repeat or filter are
localized, so how much of a benefit is it really that variable names and
object names can be in cyrillic?
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

Again, maybe I'm unusual, but none of these apply to any of the apps I've
ever written. I've done consulting work (oh so long ago) on apps that
stored people's names, and likely unicode comes in handy for those, but I
haven't asked the authors whether they take advantage of it.

I'm not arguing against unicode, since I really don't know. The impression
I get is that there has been a huge opportunity cost of implementing it,
and on the list I've seen far more people complain about it than praise it.

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:02 AM, Mark Waddingham m...@livecode.com wrote:

 I think of myself as a developer. Everything I do these days is in-house,
 and has absolutely no need of unicode. The most recent thing I worked on
 for others is Navigator, and no one has ever asked me for a unicode
 version
 of that. The last app I worked on before that has been selling for the
 past
 12 years or so, internationally, and no one has asked for a unicode
 version
 of that. Maybe I'm unique, but for my personal use cases, unicode is
 irrelevant, and given the opportunity costs and performance hits, a
 negative.


 Not unique perhaps, but 'fortunate'?

 Whether or not your application's use unicode directly is not the issue -
 beyond direct localization of your interface, a lot of strings come into
 your app from outside sources which you cannot control (of course this
 largely depends on the target of the app - I guess in-house might be slight
 more controllable).

 If you have an app that processes arbitrary files on disk, then unless you
 are going to limit your users to Western European languages in their choice
 of filenames then you need unicode (can you really control the filenames
 end users might want to use)?

 If you have an app that is customized by user's personal details, then
 unless you are going to force your users to only use Western European
 characters for their name, address etc, then you need unicode.

 If you have an app that uses the system date format, then unless you are
 going to force your users to only use a Western European locale setting,
 then you need unicode.

 Ultimately anyone who is writing apps for any platform and intends to
 distribute them widely (whether localized or not) really does need Unicode
 support - if only to ensure that any edge-cases (such as unicode containing
 filenames, unicode containing locales and such) don't cause your app to
 break.

 --
 Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
 LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited




On 05/11/2015 03:40 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Mark Waddingham m...@livecode.com wrote:


As a case in point, I just opened up revNavigator from the plugins menu -
and it works in 7. Indeed, if I have objects with Unicode names,
revNavigator still works perfectly, displaying precisely what you would
expect. There was no need for me to modify the code, nor do anything to the
stack.


Ha, way to hit me where I live :-) Are developers really naming objects
with unicode-only names? Why? It's not like repeat or filter are
localized, so how much of a benefit is it really that variable names and
object names can be in cyrillic?



Well, it may be that your work goes a lot more smoothly if you can give your
variables and objects names that are relatively easy to remember because 
they are

in your native language.

I don't know what you call your variables and objects, but I always give 
them names
that make sense to me and have some sort of connexion to their function: 
flds such
as OOT, DOONBY, BIGGIN, BYRE mak a heil puckle o sense tae ma 
mind mair
than Sudron yins, as well as aa those that aiblins hae nummers: yin, 
twa, three, fower,
fife, sax, se'en, nichan, teen. Now, sud I wark fae a stoor mon that has 
Bulgarian fae his leid
he mun find it mense fu gif I caa them names he kens: КОТИКА, ТОРБИЧКА, 
ОБОР.


The unconscious arrogance of the English-speaking world never ceases to 
amaze me.


It might not be a bad idea to meditate on the fact that an awful lot of 
people conduct

their daily lives using non-latinate writing systems.

Richmond.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

I wasn't trying to imply that everyone should work in english. For
starters, there are many languages besides english that use few or no
non-ascii characters. But also, I was just saying that since the language
*itself* is in english, how much of a difference does it make to work
entirely within the ascii character set? Obviously some (a lot?) but if
that were the only use-case for unicode it would be thin indeed.

/diggingTheHoleDeeper ;-)

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 8:30 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com
wrote:



 On 05/11/2015 03:40 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

 On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Mark Waddingham m...@livecode.com
 wrote:

  As a case in point, I just opened up revNavigator from the plugins menu -
 and it works in 7. Indeed, if I have objects with Unicode names,
 revNavigator still works perfectly, displaying precisely what you would
 expect. There was no need for me to modify the code, nor do anything to
 the
 stack.

  Ha, way to hit me where I live :-) Are developers really naming objects
 with unicode-only names? Why? It's not like repeat or filter are
 localized, so how much of a benefit is it really that variable names and
 object names can be in cyrillic?


 Well, it may be that your work goes a lot more smoothly if you can give
 your
 variables and objects names that are relatively easy to remember because
 they are
 in your native language.

 I don't know what you call your variables and objects, but I always give
 them names
 that make sense to me and have some sort of connexion to their function:
 flds such
 as OOT, DOONBY, BIGGIN, BYRE mak a heil puckle o sense tae ma mind
 mair
 than Sudron yins, as well as aa those that aiblins hae nummers: yin, twa,
 three, fower,
 fife, sax, se'en, nichan, teen. Now, sud I wark fae a stoor mon that has
 Bulgarian fae his leid
 he mun find it mense fu gif I caa them names he kens: КОТИКА, ТОРБИЧКА,
 ОБОР.

 The unconscious arrogance of the English-speaking world never ceases to
 amaze me.

 It might not be a bad idea to meditate on the fact that an awful lot of
 people conduct
 their daily lives using non-latinate writing systems.

 Richmond.


 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Trevor DeVore

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 8:37 AM, Geoff Canyon gcan...@gmail.com wrote:

 Again, maybe I'm unusual, but none of these apply to any of the apps I've
 ever written. I've done consulting work (oh so long ago) on apps that
 stored people's names, and likely unicode comes in handy for those, but I
 haven't asked the authors whether they take advantage of it.

 I'm not arguing against unicode, since I really don't know. The impression
 I get is that there has been a huge opportunity cost of implementing it,
 and on the list I've seen far more people complain about it than praise it.


I really like the changes in LC 7 with regards to unicode. I am glad to
(almost) be done with worrying about user input and user file names. I
don't localize my software but I have people writing content in my software
in Greek, Russian, Chinese, etc. The are also trying to open files that
have unicode in the path names. I'm upgrading my products to use LC 8
(started in LC7) and will be very happy when I don't have to answer
questions about why my software can't open certain files or can't be
installed in a folder with a unicode character in the path name.

My experience is that if you write an application for the general public
that allows text input or needs to open files named by the user, then there
is a high probability that you will run into unicode issues if your
software doesn't have support for it. Not having proper unicode support is
something I would eventually leave a development platform over.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com-www.clarify-it.com
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread J. Landman Gay

On May 11, 2015 9:06:07 AM CDT, Geoff Canyon gcan...@gmail.com wrote:
 But also, I was just saying that since the language
*itself* is in english, how much of a difference does it make to work
entirely within the ascii character set? 

Flipping things around a bit, how much of a difference would it make to work 
entirely within the Russian character set? You may have learned just enough of 
the language to write the syntax, but you'll want to name your variables and 
objects so that they are meaningful to you. I see this all the time in the 
forums where folks who need to use a translator to post their questions provide 
script snippets. The variables and object references are always in their native 
language. 

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

I have a friend who gets very annoyed that the Americans always control
things. When I ask for clarification of this I get, Well... For instance,
why does the States have to be 001 in the international dialing? Answer me
THAT..! The answer... We invented the telephone. If you want to control
something, invent it. That shut him up.

If you want a language to be controlled in whatever language you want... Invent
one.

On May 11, 2015, at 9:30 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:

On 05/11/2015 03:40 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Mark Waddingham m...@livecode.com wrote:

As a case in point, I just opened up revNavigator from the plugins menu -
and it works in 7. Indeed, if I have objects with Unicode names,
revNavigator still works perfectly, displaying precisely what you would
expect. There was no need for me to modify the code, nor do anything to the
stack.

Ha, way to hit me where I live :-) Are developers really naming objects
with unicode-only names? Why? It's not like repeat or filter are
localized, so how much of a benefit is it really that variable names and
object names can be in cyrillic?

Well, it may be that your work goes a lot more smoothly if you can give your
variables and objects names that are relatively easy to remember because they
are
in your native language.

I don't know what you call your variables and objects, but I always give them
names
that make sense to me and have some sort of connexion to their function: flds
such
as OOT, DOONBY, BIGGIN, BYRE mak a heil puckle o sense tae ma mind
mair
than Sudron yins, as well as aa those that aiblins hae nummers: yin, twa,
three, fower,
fife, sax, se'en, nichan, teen. Now, sud I wark fae a stoor mon that has
Bulgarian fae his leid
he mun find it mense fu gif I caa them names he kens: КОТИКА, ТОРБИЧКА, ОБОР.

The unconscious arrogance of the English-speaking world never ceases to amaze
me.

It might not be a bad idea to meditate on the fact that an awful lot of
people conduct
their daily lives using non-latinate writing systems.

Richmond.

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Mark Schonewille

Hi,

A quick look-up on Wikipedia:

Innocenzo Manzetti considered the idea of a telephone as early as 1844,
and may have made one in 1864, as an enhancement to an automaton built
by him in 1849.

Why doesn't Italy have 001?

Don't answer that the US invented electricity: it is said that the
Babylonians did this some time earlier.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

Installer Maker for LiveCode:
http://qery.us/468

Buy my new book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner
http://qery.us/3fi

LiveCode on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/

On 5/11/2015 16:09, PystCat wrote:

I have a friend who gets very annoyed that the Americans always control things. When I ask for
clarification of this I get, Well... For instance, why does the States have to be 001 in the
international dialing? Answer me THAT..! The answer... We invented the telephone. If you
want to control something, invent it. That shut him up.

If you want a language to be controlled in whatever language you want... Invent
one.

On May 11, 2015, at 9:30 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:

On 05/11/2015 03:40 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Mark Waddingham m...@livecode.com wrote:

Well, it may be that your work goes a lot more smoothly if you can give your
variables and objects names that are relatively easy to remember because they
are
in your native language.

I don't know what you call your variables and objects, but I always give them
names
that make sense to me and have some sort of connexion to their function: flds
such
as OOT, DOONBY, BIGGIN, BYRE mak a heil puckle o sense tae ma mind mair
than Sudron yins, as well as aa those that aiblins hae nummers: yin, twa,
three, fower,
fife, sax, se'en, nichan, teen. Now, sud I wark fae a stoor mon that has
Bulgarian fae his leid
he mun find it mense fu gif I caa them names he kens: КОТИКА, ТОРБИЧКА, ОБОР.

The unconscious arrogance of the English-speaking world never ceases to amaze
me.

It might not be a bad idea to meditate on the fact that an awful lot of people
conduct
their daily lives using non-latinate writing systems.

Richmond.

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Mike Kerner

Reminding everyone that Bell was a Scott is like reminding everyone that
Einstein was German.  It's a lesson that should remind everyone, especially
colonists, that you gotta have a big tent, be accepting of big, novel,
disruptive ideas, and gladly and joyfully welcome everyone, with open arms,
no matter what you or anyone else thinks of them, lest they take their
talents somewhere else.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, This is good.
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

Just for fun.


Can someone tell me who invented the Computer?



All the best

Terry

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Mark Schonewille


*thumbs up*

But I'll leave this sub-thread now, because it seems quite OT.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

Installer Maker for LiveCode:
http://qery.us/468

Buy my new book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner 
http://qery.us/3fi


LiveCode on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/

On 5/11/2015 16:43, Terence Heaford wrote:

Tivadar Puskás de Ditró (English: Theodore Puskás [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivadar_Pusk%C3%A1s#cite_note-1 b. 17 September 1844, Pest 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pest_(city) - d. 16 March 1893, Budapest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest) was a Hungarian 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungary inventor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inventor, telephone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone 
pioneer, and inventor of the telephone exchange http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_exchange[2] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivadar_Pusk%C3%A1s#cite_note-2[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivadar_Pusk%C3%A1s#cite_note-3[4] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivadar_Pusk%C3%A1s#cite_note-4[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivadar_Pusk%C3%A1s#cite_note-5[6] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivadar_Pusk%C3%A1s#cite_note-6 He was also the founder of Telefon Hírmondó 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telefon_H%C3%ADrmond%C3%B3.


On 11 May 2015, at 15:31, Mike Kerner mikeker...@roadrunner.com wrote:

They invented
the international telephone network.




All the best

Terry




___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

RE: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

 I wasn't trying to imply that everyone should work in 
 english. For starters, there are many languages besides 
 english that use few or no non-ascii characters. But also, I 
 was just saying that since the language
 *itself* is in english, how much of a difference does it make 
 to work entirely within the ascii character set? Obviously 
 some (a lot?) but if that were the only use-case for unicode 
 it would be thin indeed.

The language is *derived* from English syntax, but so are most computer
languages in some respect. There have been some attempts to make programming
languages based on other languages, but they didn't get get very far. There
was one in France (I forget the name) and another in Japan (the Tron
project).

Objects need to be able to have native labels (menu items, etc).

Any application that manipulates text needs to follow the standard dejour
for that.

Consider for example, a contact manager or calendar application. Names must
be renderable correctly, often using the sort order that's appropriate to
the native language. There are many classes of applications that are not
possible without it.

Also, you have to look at the competition too. All the pro tools out there
support Unicode. Not supporting it is a disqualifier.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

And….


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Graham_Bell 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Graham_Bell


Alexander Graham Bell is  a Scottish 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_people scientist


All the best

Terry



 On 11 May 2015, at 15:27, Mark Schonewille m.schonewi...@economy-x-talk.com 
 wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 A quick look-up on Wikipedia:
 
 Innocenzo Manzetti considered the idea of a telephone as early as 1844, and 
 may have made one in 1864, as an enhancement to an automaton built by him in 
 1849.
 
 Why doesn't Italy have 001?
 
 Don't answer that the US invented electricity: it is said that the 
 Babylonians did this some time earlier.
 
 --
 Best regards,
 
 Mark Schonewille
 
 Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
 Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
 Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
 KvK: 50277553
 
 Installer Maker for LiveCode:
 http://qery.us/468
 
 Buy my new book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner 
 http://qery.us/3fi
 
 LiveCode on Facebook:
 https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/
 
 On 5/11/2015 16:09, PystCat wrote:
 I have a friend who gets very annoyed that the Americans always control 
 things.  When I ask for clarification of this I get, Well... For instance, 
 why does the States have to be 001 in the international dialing? Answer 
 me THAT..!  The answer... We invented the telephone.  If you want to 
 control something, invent it.  That shut him up.
 
 If you want a language to be controlled in whatever language you want... 
 Invent one.
 
 
 
 
 
 On May 11, 2015, at 9:30 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 
 On 05/11/2015 03:40 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:
 On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Mark Waddingham m...@livecode.com 
 wrote:
 
 As a case in point, I just opened up revNavigator from the plugins menu -
 and it works in 7. Indeed, if I have objects with Unicode names,
 revNavigator still works perfectly, displaying precisely what you would
 expect. There was no need for me to modify the code, nor do anything to 
 the
 stack.
 
 Ha, way to hit me where I live :-) Are developers really naming objects
 with unicode-only names? Why? It's not like repeat or filter are
 localized, so how much of a benefit is it really that variable names and
 object names can be in cyrillic?
 
 
 Well, it may be that your work goes a lot more smoothly if you can give your
 variables and objects names that are relatively easy to remember because 
 they are
 in your native language.
 
 I don't know what you call your variables and objects, but I always give 
 them names
 that make sense to me and have some sort of connexion to their function: 
 flds such
 as OOT, DOONBY, BIGGIN, BYRE mak a heil puckle o sense tae ma mind 
 mair
 than Sudron yins, as well as aa those that aiblins hae nummers: yin, twa, 
 three, fower,
 fife, sax, se'en, nichan, teen. Now, sud I wark fae a stoor mon that has 
 Bulgarian fae his leid
 he mun find it mense fu gif I caa them names he kens: КОТИКА, ТОРБИЧКА, 
 ОБОР.
 
 The unconscious arrogance of the English-speaking world never ceases to 
 amaze me.
 
 It might not be a bad idea to meditate on the fact that an awful lot of 
 people conduct
 their daily lives using non-latinate writing systems.
 
 Richmond.
 
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
 
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
 preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
 
 
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
 preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Mike Kerner

It doesn't matter if the colonists invented the telephone.  They invented
the international telephone network.  Thus, they got to decide how it
operates.

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Mark Schonewille 
m.schonewi...@economy-x-talk.com wrote:

 Hi,

 A quick look-up on Wikipedia:

 Innocenzo Manzetti considered the idea of a telephone as early as 1844,
 and may have made one in 1864, as an enhancement to an automaton built by
 him in 1849.

 Why doesn't Italy have 001?

 Don't answer that the US invented electricity: it is said that the
 Babylonians did this some time earlier.

 --
 Best regards,

 Mark Schonewille

 Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
 Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
 Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
 KvK: 50277553

 Installer Maker for LiveCode:
 http://qery.us/468

 Buy my new book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner
 http://qery.us/3fi

 LiveCode on Facebook:
 https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/

 On 5/11/2015 16:09, PystCat wrote:

 I have a friend who gets very annoyed that the Americans always control
 things.  When I ask for clarification of this I get, Well... For
 instance, why does the States have to be 001 in the international
 dialing? Answer me THAT..!  The answer... We invented the telephone.
 If you want to control something, invent it.  That shut him up.

 If you want a language to be controlled in whatever language you want...
 Invent one.





  On May 11, 2015, at 9:30 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com
 wrote:



  On 05/11/2015 03:40 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

 On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Mark Waddingham m...@livecode.com
 wrote:

 As a case in point, I just opened up revNavigator from the plugins
 menu -
 and it works in 7. Indeed, if I have objects with Unicode names,
 revNavigator still works perfectly, displaying precisely what you would
 expect. There was no need for me to modify the code, nor do anything
 to the
 stack.

  Ha, way to hit me where I live :-) Are developers really naming
 objects
 with unicode-only names? Why? It's not like repeat or filter are
 localized, so how much of a benefit is it really that variable names and
 object names can be in cyrillic?


 Well, it may be that your work goes a lot more smoothly if you can give
 your
 variables and objects names that are relatively easy to remember because
 they are
 in your native language.

 I don't know what you call your variables and objects, but I always give
 them names
 that make sense to me and have some sort of connexion to their function:
 flds such
 as OOT, DOONBY, BIGGIN, BYRE mak a heil puckle o sense tae ma
 mind mair
 than Sudron yins, as well as aa those that aiblins hae nummers: yin,
 twa, three, fower,
 fife, sax, se'en, nichan, teen. Now, sud I wark fae a stoor mon that has
 Bulgarian fae his leid
 he mun find it mense fu gif I caa them names he kens: КОТИКА, ТОРБИЧКА,
 ОБОР.

 The unconscious arrogance of the English-speaking world never ceases to
 amaze me.

 It might not be a bad idea to meditate on the fact that an awful lot of
 people conduct
 their daily lives using non-latinate writing systems.

 Richmond.

 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, This is good.
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

Tivadar Puskás de Ditró (English: Theodore Puskás [1] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivadar_Pusk%C3%A1s#cite_note-1 b. 17 September 
1844, Pest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pest_(city) - d. 16 March 1893, 
Budapest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest) was a Hungarian 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungary inventor 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inventor, telephone 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone pioneer, and inventor of the telephone 
exchange http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_exchange[2] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivadar_Pusk%C3%A1s#cite_note-2[3] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivadar_Pusk%C3%A1s#cite_note-3[4] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivadar_Pusk%C3%A1s#cite_note-4[5] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivadar_Pusk%C3%A1s#cite_note-5[6] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivadar_Pusk%C3%A1s#cite_note-6 He was also the 
founder of Telefon Hírmondó 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telefon_H%C3%ADrmond%C3%B3.

 On 11 May 2015, at 15:31, Mike Kerner mikeker...@roadrunner.com wrote:
 
 They invented
 the international telephone network.



All the best

Terry
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited


 On 11 May 2015, at 15:36, Mike Kerner mikeker...@roadrunner.com wrote:
 
 Reminding everyone that Bell was a Scott is like reminding everyone that
 Einstein was German.  It's a lesson that should remind everyone, especially
 colonists, that you gotta have a big tent, be accepting of big, novel,
 disruptive ideas, and gladly and joyfully welcome everyone, with open arms,
 no matter what you or anyone else thinks of them, lest they take their
 talents somewhere else.



Fish  “Chips”


All the best

Terry

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

Apart from the basics like ñ and é, how do you enter non-ascii characters
on iOS? Do iPhones in Russia display a different keyboard by default? How
about asian countries where the character set is hundreds or thousands of
images?

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Trevor DeVore li...@mangomultimedia.com
wrote:

 On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 8:37 AM, Geoff Canyon gcan...@gmail.com wrote:

  Again, maybe I'm unusual, but none of these apply to any of the apps I've
  ever written. I've done consulting work (oh so long ago) on apps that
  stored people's names, and likely unicode comes in handy for those, but I
  haven't asked the authors whether they take advantage of it.
 
  I'm not arguing against unicode, since I really don't know. The
 impression
  I get is that there has been a huge opportunity cost of implementing it,
  and on the list I've seen far more people complain about it than praise
 it.


 I really like the changes in LC 7 with regards to unicode. I am glad to
 (almost) be done with worrying about user input and user file names. I
 don't localize my software but I have people writing content in my software
 in Greek, Russian, Chinese, etc. The are also trying to open files that
 have unicode in the path names. I'm upgrading my products to use LC 8
 (started in LC7) and will be very happy when I don't have to answer
 questions about why my software can't open certain files or can't be
 installed in a folder with a unicode character in the path name.

 My experience is that if you write an application for the general public
 that allows text input or needs to open files named by the user, then there
 is a high probability that you will run into unicode issues if your
 software doesn't have support for it. Not having proper unicode support is
 something I would eventually leave a development platform over.

 --
 Trevor DeVore
 ScreenSteps
 www.screensteps.com-www.clarify-it.com
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

Certainly true. I could see myself writing:

повторение для каждый слово aWord в myString



On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 10:22 AM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com
wrote:

 On May 11, 2015 9:06:07 AM CDT, Geoff Canyon gcan...@gmail.com wrote:
  But also, I was just saying that since the language
 *itself* is in english, how much of a difference does it make to work
 entirely within the ascii character set?

 Flipping things around a bit, how much of a difference would it make to
 work entirely within the Russian character set? You may have learned just
 enough of the language to write the syntax, but you'll want to name your
 variables and objects so that they are meaningful to you. I see this all
 the time in the forums where folks who need to use a translator to post
 their questions provide script snippets. The variables and object
 references are always in their native language.

 --
 Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
 HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

RE: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

 This is why I asked, hoping for a response from someone who 
 shops the Greek app store, or the Japanese app store. Those 
 are the ones who would know the percentage.

We sell Valentina Studio Pro worldwide in all the Mac App Stores, and of
course, the free Valentina Studio, everywhere. It is a very vertical market
tool, so it hasn't been a rush to localize, though that's coming now that
we've ported to a better framework with Valentina 6. Likewise our freebie
iValentina for iOS is in all the stores. These products are not consumer
applications though.

You know as well as anyone that we now have a large number of deployment
options. Every type of application though has its own type of market.
Certain types of games or applications sell better in some markets than
others. Then there is the total scope of the market to consider.

For example - although the Japanese market may be fraction X of the US
market, certain types of applications may sell better there. Also, you may
have a higher rate of numbers of applications purchased based on price
points and available income.

The take home you should get from that is that just knowing the proportional
size of the Japanese market for iOS apps isn't an indication of how well
your application will do there.

Let me share this tidbit with you. For Mac products, Japan has historically
been the second largest language market. Lets say you want to go all fruity
on Europe with FIGS (French, Italian, German, Spanish) localization of a Mac
application. That's four languages, of which you can expect on average sales
being more in the order of German, French, Spanish / Italian (you'd expect
Spanish to do better but there are different market influences in Spanish
speaking markets). Or you can localize into Japanese (one language), and
expect sales to be anywhere from 2/3 - 2 x ALL of Europe.

There are lots and lots of custom software devs who crank out an occasional
consumer app who never go beyond selling in their own language. They've
probably never sold anything to Microsoft or Exxon Mobil or their own
government, each of which have their own special requirements. Yet the tools
that such devs use have to be able to build those types of applications too.


Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

RE: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

  Odd as it sounds, they figured out that there's a huge demand for a 
  microsoft product, any microsoft product, that doesn't suck  . . .
 
 
 It does sound odd; especially as it has taken them about 20 
 years to work it out.

I actually like a lot of specific versions of MS products. I hope that the
departure of Monkey Boy will result in more consistency of the good, rather
than the good - suck - acceptable - suck cycle.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited


On 11/05/15 20:54, Klaus major-k wrote:


Watch this and cry :-D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGcspfreload=10




I didn't cry because the man should obviously either be locked away in a 
funny farm

or get a job as some sort of performance street artist.

Certainly quite frightening; especially his facial expression.

Maybe, because I am a stuffy, conservative European, that sort of behaviour.
which I would characterise as infantile and bonkers, goes down well in the
colonies.

However, I certainly didn't get that impression when I was in the States.

Richmond.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

Yes...sure.  It looks like they did a lot with it, too.
Oh wait... No... They didn't. H



 On May 11, 2015, at 10:27 AM, Mark Schonewille 
 m.schonewi...@economy-x-talk.com wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 A quick look-up on Wikipedia:
 
 Innocenzo Manzetti considered the idea of a telephone as early as 1844, and 
 may have made one in 1864, as an enhancement to an automaton built by him in 
 1849.
 
 Why doesn't Italy have 001?
 
 Don't answer that the US invented electricity: it is said that the 
 Babylonians did this some time earlier.
 
 --
 Best regards,
 
 Mark Schonewille
 
 Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
 Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
 Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
 KvK: 50277553
 
 Installer Maker for LiveCode:
 http://qery.us/468
 
 Buy my new book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner 
 http://qery.us/3fi
 
 LiveCode on Facebook:
 https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/
 
 On 5/11/2015 16:09, PystCat wrote:
 I have a friend who gets very annoyed that the Americans always control 
 things.  When I ask for clarification of this I get, Well... For instance, 
 why does the States have to be 001 in the international dialing? Answer 
 me THAT..!  The answer... We invented the telephone.  If you want to 
 control something, invent it.  That shut him up.
 
 If you want a language to be controlled in whatever language you want... 
 Invent one.
 
 
 
 
 
 On May 11, 2015, at 9:30 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 
 On 05/11/2015 03:40 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:
 On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Mark Waddingham m...@livecode.com 
 wrote:
 
 As a case in point, I just opened up revNavigator from the plugins menu -
 and it works in 7. Indeed, if I have objects with Unicode names,
 revNavigator still works perfectly, displaying precisely what you would
 expect. There was no need for me to modify the code, nor do anything to 
 the
 stack.
 
 Ha, way to hit me where I live :-) Are developers really naming objects
 with unicode-only names? Why? It's not like repeat or filter are
 localized, so how much of a benefit is it really that variable names and
 object names can be in cyrillic?
 
 
 Well, it may be that your work goes a lot more smoothly if you can give your
 variables and objects names that are relatively easy to remember because 
 they are
 in your native language.
 
 I don't know what you call your variables and objects, but I always give 
 them names
 that make sense to me and have some sort of connexion to their function: 
 flds such
 as OOT, DOONBY, BIGGIN, BYRE mak a heil puckle o sense tae ma mind 
 mair
 than Sudron yins, as well as aa those that aiblins hae nummers: yin, twa, 
 three, fower,
 fife, sax, se'en, nichan, teen. Now, sud I wark fae a stoor mon that has 
 Bulgarian fae his leid
 he mun find it mense fu gif I caa them names he kens: КОТИКА, ТОРБИЧКА, 
 ОБОР.
 
 The unconscious arrogance of the English-speaking world never ceases to 
 amaze me.
 
 It might not be a bad idea to meditate on the fact that an awful lot of 
 people conduct
 their daily lives using non-latinate writing systems.
 
 Richmond.
 
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
 
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
 preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
 
 
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
 preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

It is supposed to be blowing a kiss...

Now... WHY on earth would anyone willingly spend time in Carbondale Illinois...?

I've never known those examples to be an American invention but... FTW... 
Marshmallow creme or as it is known in the states... Fluff
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_inventions
1917





 On May 11, 2015, at 1:41 PM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On 11/05/15 20:36, PystCat wrote:
 The Americans have invented very little indeed.
 
 What the Americans have done is pinched other people's inventions and 
 improved them immensely, to the extent
 that they can fool people they invented the things in the first place.
 Examples and/or citations, please.  
 No citations:
 
 Computers
 
 Televisions
 
 Muffins
 
 Some Americans even think they invented English; which was invented by a 
 load of vulgar northern Frenchmen
 attempting to speak Anglo-Saxon and getting it wrong.
 Well... Considering the country is only a little over 200 years old, I find 
 this to be just a little too silly to even believe.  
 You, obviously, haven't spent time in Carbondale, Illinois.
 
 (do those smiley emojis come through on this list...?)
 
 Those emojis do come through, although they don't look very smiley; they look 
 more like somebody
 with quite a nasty growth on the right side of their face.
 
 Richmond.
 
 
 
 On May 11, 2015, at 1:29 PM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On 11/05/15 17:27, Mark Schonewille wrote:
 Hi,
 
 A quick look-up on Wikipedia:
 
 Innocenzo Manzetti considered the idea of a telephone as early as 1844, 
 and may have made one in 1864, as an enhancement to an automaton built by 
 him in 1849.
 
 Why doesn't Italy have 001?
 
 Don't answer that the US invented electricity: it is said that the 
 Babylonians did this some time earlier.
 
 -- 
 Best regards,
 
 Mark Schonewille
 
 
 
 
 Richmond.
 
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
 preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
 
 
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
 preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

RE: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Ralph DiMola

I was really proud of the US inventions until I saw this.
-
1964 8-track cartridge

Stereo 8, commonly known as the eight-track cartridge or eight-track, is a 
magnetic tape sound recording technology. In 1964, William Lear invented the 
eight-track, which went on to become the most popular musical medium from the 
mid-1960s to the early 1980s.
-

I actually had a quadraphonic 8 track in my car that used 2 music tracks of 4 
channels each. This allowed for 1 album side per music track. Yanking the front 
wheels off the ground in my 1969 Fairlane while listening to 
Dark-Side-Of-The-Moon in quadraphonic is a memory for the ages. Side stepping 
the clutch and looking at the sky just as the song Time kicked in was always a 
thrill.

And then one day you find ten years have got behind you. No one told you when 
to run, you missed the starting gun. Pick Floyd (only song on the album 
credited to all 4 members)


Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
PystCat
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 2:29 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

It is supposed to be blowing a kiss...

Now... WHY on earth would anyone willingly spend time in Carbondale Illinois...?

I've never known those examples to be an American invention but... FTW... 
Marshmallow creme or as it is known in the states... Fluff 
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_inventions
1917




___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Richard Gaskin

Richmond wrote:

Gottit at last; the new GUI mockup:

http://web.archive.org/web/20130203003005/http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1755283828/open-source-edition-of-livecode?

The biggest difference there is that the stack you're working on is
displayed as a pane within a larger IDE window that binds many of the
existing tool palettes together.

On the technical side, this is dependent on completion of a new object,
once referred to as Viewer in another xTalk (Sybase Gain Momentum) but I
don't know what the final LC form will be called:

http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2786

A Viewer control allows you to have any stack appear as a control in any
other stack. Given the UI shown in the Kickstarter page, it would seem
such a control would be needed before that particular UI could be
implemented.

On the workflow side, as much as I would love to see Gain-style Viewer
objects in LiveCode for my own products, I believe they're of minimal
actual value in the development workflow, though I understand it can be
extremely value for demoing LiveCode to those who don't yet actually
work in it.

We see many comments from newcomers about why LiveCode doesn't look like
other IDEs, as most other IDEs look very much alike, and very similar to
that mockup.

But other tools aren't LiveCode - you're not working in LIVE code.

In other tools, layout and runtime are completely unrelated tasks, often
with a long compile time in between.

So instead of working in a real window, XCode, Xojo, and most other IDEs
offer only a proxy rendering of your layout, within a drawing
environment in which nothing is ever expected to actually execute.

In LiveCode, the windows we work in are the same windows that are
running - it's all LIVE code. Real windows, with real-time results.

Rendering your app's window inside of an IDE window may be helpful for
layout, but introduces differences in runtime that may often be undesirable.

And if you think about it, over the life of an app relatively little
time is spent laying out controls. Most of our time is spent editing
code, debugging, etc.

[As a side note, given how little time we spend doing layout it's always
mystified me that LC offers no preference not to have the Tools palette
always open whenever LC launches.]

This is a difficult balance, however. In order to become one of us who
spends many months working on an app through many versions, you'll need
to first become enamored of the tool. And if it doesn't look like the
IDEs you're used to, even if those IDEs are different because they're
designed for a radically different workflow, LC may seem less modern
than it actually is.

In short, as long as the single-window IDE is an option, it will be very
valuable.

I trust the team appreciates the value of the workflow that
distinguishes LiveCode from other toolkits enough to allow us a choice
in this, like being able to remove training wheels once you understand
how to ride a bike.

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems
Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web

ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Peter Haworth

The patent for his telephone was granted in 1876.  He became an American
citizen 6 years later in 1882.  He spent a lot of his life in Canada,
ending up in Baddeck, Cape Breton, where there is a fascinating museum
devoted to his work which included many inventions other than the telephone.

Pete
lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com
Home of lcStackBrowser http://www.lcsql.com/lcstackbrowser.html and
SQLiteAdmin http://www.lcsql.com/sqliteadmin.html

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com
wrote:

 On 11/05/15 20:43, Terence Heaford wrote:

 Alexander Graham Bell was born in Edinburgh, Scotland.


 I am surprised, wrong, and stand corrected.

 BUT . . . did he self-identify as a Scot at the time he invented the
 telephone?

 My children have self-identified themselves as Scots, British, Bulgarian
 and American at various times in
 their lives; all of those self-identifications are equally valid as far as
 I can see.

 Richmond.


 All the best

 Terry

  On 11 May 2015, at 18:31, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:

 Not really: as far as I know, his father was Scots, while he, himself
 was born in the USA.

 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Richard Gaskin


Geoff Canyon wrote:

...I was just saying that since the language *itself* is in english,
 how much of a difference does it make to work entirely within the
 ascii character set? Obviously some (a lot?) but if that were the
 only use-case for unicode it would be thin indeed.

Unicode is the modern standard to text handling, and it's been this way 
for so long that LiveCode couldn't be taken seriously by a great many 
people without it.


Of the Top 100 languages on the TIOBE list, are there even as many as 
three that don't support Unicode?  Even just one?


Whether or not we localize, Unicode is how text happens in the 21st 
century, found in everything from clipboard contents we need to handle 
to the paths of files we need to read from.


So while the value of Unicode is, at least for the purveyor of a 
development tool, beyond question, the unknown is its impact on LiveCode.


We know it impacted the development very significantly, but beyond the 
other two areas of concern are the size of standalones and their 
performance, and in these the impact of Unicode has not been clear.


A couple members of the core dev team have suggested that the Unicode 
libraries do play a role in much of the additional file size of 
standalones, but contrary to popular perception have also clarified that 
the interconnectedness of Unicode within LC is not so great that it 
can't be factored out into a build option for those needing the smallest 
standalones possible.


As for performance, we can anticipate that some string operations will 
take longer by virtue of memCopy moving twice as much data.  But the 
speed differences between 6.7.x and 7.0.x have been quite varied, and 
not intuitively apparent as related to Unicode.


As is common in many languages, we used to run isolated performance 
benchmarks to identify specific differences and their magnitude, but in 
recent months such tests have been called synthetic and dismissed as 
irrelevant given the many algorithmic changes under the hood.


One the one hand I can certainly appreciate how algorithmic changes can 
make certain benchmarks less meaningful in terms of where a developer 
might look to optimize them.


But from the standpoint of the scripter, and by extension their 
end-users, it's still very helpful indeed to be able to identify that a 
given app relies heavily on the lineOffset function, for example, so 
finding a 3-fold slowdown there would seem useful for very practical 
purposes.


Not having spent time in the underlying C++ I'm at a loss to explain why 
it's too hard to bring things like lineOffset closer to their 6.x 
performance, and the current suggestion of tossing out our benchmarking 
scripts in favor of sending an entire, sometimes complex, app to be 
diagnosed to eventually identify that same bottleneck seems a mysterious 
path to me.


Clearly I could benefit from some education from the core dev team on 
benchmarks, performance differences, and efforts being made to restore 
performance closer to previous levels.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited


Gottit at last; the new GUI mockup:

http://web.archive.org/web/20130203003005/http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1755283828/open-source-edition-of-livecode?

Richmond.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

 On 11 May 2015, at 18:58, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 If he self-identified as a Canadian I wonder why he is described as a 
 Scottish-American around and about?


Perhaps, here is your answer ;)



 On 11 May 2015, at 18:29, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 The Americans have invented very little indeed.
 
 What the Americans have done is pinched other people's inventions and 
 improved them immensely, to the extent
 that they can fool people they invented the things in the first place.



All the best

Terry
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Peter Haworth

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com
 wrote:

 We know it impacted the development very significantly, but beyond the
 other two areas of concern are the size of standalones and their
 performance, and in these the impact of Unicode has not been clear.


Having just used LC 7 to make SQliteAdmin handle Unicode, I didn't
experience any real degradation in performance.  If I had taken the time to
measure the milliseconds required for various operations in the pre-Unicode
version (built with LC 6.6.2) and the Unicode version (built with LC
7.0.4), I may have seen some increases but from a user perspective, none
were evident.

The application does not handle huge amounts of data.  In general, I'm
parsing SQL statements and displaying data from tables in a datagrid.  I
use the dgNumber of records feature of the datagrid to populate it so no
matter how many rows are displayed from a table, only a small number of
them are parsed for display at any one time.

There was definitely an increase in the size of the standalone (about 50%)
and building a standalone took a lot longer but still only a couple of
minutes.

All in all, I was very happy with how easy it was to add Unicode
capabilities to this application, especially given that it's whole purpose
is to handle communication with external databases. I had tried to do it a
few weeks ago with LC 6.6.2 and pretty much gave up due to the complexities
of handling Unicode within LC.

So for my application, LC7's Unicode features were definitely worthwhile
since I had received requests from my users to enhance it to handle Unicode.

Pete
lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com
Home of lcStackBrowser http://www.lcsql.com/lcstackbrowser.html and
SQLiteAdmin http://www.lcsql.com/sqliteadmin.html
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited


On 11/05/15 21:29, PystCat wrote:

It is supposed to be blowing a kiss...

Now... WHY on earth would anyone willingly spend time in Carbondale Illinois...?


I had a really super 3 years there doing my first Master's degree there 
in 1993-96.


Richmond.


I've never known those examples to be an American invention but... FTW... 
Marshmallow creme or as it is known in the states... Fluff
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_inventions
1917






On May 11, 2015, at 1:41 PM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:

On 11/05/15 20:36, PystCat wrote:

The Americans have invented very little indeed.

What the Americans have done is pinched other people's inventions and improved 
them immensely, to the extent
that they can fool people they invented the things in the first place.

Examples and/or citations, please.  

No citations:

Computers

Televisions

Muffins

Some Americans even think they invented English; which was invented by a load 
of vulgar northern Frenchmen
attempting to speak Anglo-Saxon and getting it wrong.

Well... Considering the country is only a little over 200 years old, I find 
this to be just a little too silly to even believe.  

You, obviously, haven't spent time in Carbondale, Illinois.

(do those smiley emojis come through on this list...?)

Those emojis do come through, although they don't look very smiley; they look 
more like somebody
with quite a nasty growth on the right side of their face.

Richmond.




___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

Wow, I added several Chinese keyboards (including one based on handwriting
recognition). I'd love to see someone who is skilled at that in action.

I opened the most recent app I installed (Momentum) and I now have a
defined habit that I surely can't read. :-)

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:03 AM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com
wrote:

 On May 11, 2015 10:30:21 AM CDT, Geoff Canyon gcan...@gmail.com wrote:
 Apart from the basics like ñ and é, how do you enter non-ascii
 characters
 on iOS? Do iPhones in Russia display a different keyboard by default?
 How
 about asian countries where the character set is hundreds or thousands
 of
 images?

 Yes.

 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT202178

 --
 Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
 HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

Not in english? repeat, while, with, if, filter, replace, line, word, etc.,
etc. I'm not saying the syntax is english, but the words clearly are.

With the language extension capability that is coming Some Day Now, yes, I
would expect that everyone could program in their own language. I wonder
how that will work out.

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com
wrote:

 On 11/05/15 17:06, Geoff Canyon wrote:

 the language *itself* is in english

 Well, apart from the oversight of not capitalising the name of the
 language,
 I don't think the language (i.e. the scripting language inwith LiveCode)
 is
 in English, nor is it English, it is, at best, something English-like,
 and, as
 time goes on and the language develops it tends to stray away from its
 semblance to English and increasingly resemble other programming languages
 (such as C++, which is not surprising considering what is going on in the
 mother-ship).

 The ASCII set is ancient history - I remember both learning it in 1975
 (when I was 13)
 and attending a lecture at the University of Durham in 1984 when it was
 pointed out how
 cramping and limiting the ASCII set would eventually prove to be.

 Now, here we are 30-odd years later (after I went to that lecture) and all
 sorts of things
 have happened (in case anyone hasn't noticed them):

 1. No more totalitarian Commie bloc - who, by the way, did a lot of work
 on how to
 implement Cyrillic.

 2. The Asian Tiger has got us all shaking in our boots, except for
 clever chaps like Andy Parng
 who manage to have the best of both worlds.

 3. India; a totally whacked-out country that manages to sport more writing
 systems inside its borders
 than one cares to think of.

 Oddly enough, in 1989 I was spending my spare time in Al Ain, in the UAE
 (where I was teaching English and Maths at an
 Egyptian, Muslim school) implementing several non-latin scripts on a BBC
 Micro: being, as usual, so far ahead of the wave that
 I ended washed up on the beach. :)

 I should be grateful that I am 53 and not 23 (although, frankly, I'm not)
 insofar as my job as an EFL teacher
 is seriously threatened as within a generation people are probably not
 going to want to learn English anymore:
 it's going to be Mandarin Chinese in all probability.

 And the bl**dy-minded Chinese, for all the talk about Pinyin, are JUST
 NOT going to give up their
 writing system in a hurry, which makes the ASCII set look like 3 LEGO
 blocks and a pair of wheels versus
 LEGO Technic and Mindstorms.

 While HyperCard WAS (and I am capitalising that deliberately) written in
 pseudo-English that was for the simple
 reason that at that point the ONLY people who were buying Apple's
 computers were North Americans and Richmond, who happened
 to be in North America at the time (thanks to his academically brilliant
 Bulgarian wife who got a Fulbright scholarship).

 Now LiveCode, while bearing the mantle passed down through MetaCard of
 HyperCard, has pretensions to be more than
 a North American Programming Oddity (which is what HyperCard was), but a
 Programming Environment for every person,
 regardless of their nationality and native language.

 If LiveCode does not support non-ASCII writing systems and character sets
 (and Unicode is the de facto, even if not the de jure, standard)
 those pretensions will be seen to be nonsense.

 I cannot see any reason why, possibly with LCB, a parser could not be
 developed that would allow Chinese programmers to actually program
 in LiveCode WITHOUT having to learn LiveCode's original programming
 language, but by using something vaguely Chinesey (rather
 like LiveCode's vaguely Englishy current scripting language).


 Richmond.

 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

RE: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

 Not in english? repeat, while, with, if, filter, replace, 
 line, word, etc., etc. I'm not saying the syntax is english, 
 but the words clearly are.

It is English like. Uses English words, and sensical English-like
grammatical structures. However you do not have to know English well to be
able to program in it, whereas there are lots of English language rules that
trip up second language learners.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Richard Gaskin

Can we please call Cheese! on this inventor sub-thread and move it to 
the Off-Topic forum?:

http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=5

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Monte Goulding


 On 11 May 2015, at 9:52 pm, Bjoernke von Gierke b...@mac.com wrote:
 
 Sure, Widgets do things that LC can't do. I do however want LC to be able to 
 do stuff. In a similar vein, I'd want to use LC to access sql and xml. 
 Instead, I'm using C-style functions. It's not xTalk, just like widgets (at 
 least right now) are not LC.

Hmm… LC can now do things it couldn’t do before through the use of widgets. 
Isn’t the whole point of LCB and open language the ability to extend what LC 
can do in xTalk and with drag and drop objects?

One way to look at widgets and open language is to imagine you are RunRev and 
you want to make it easy for yourself to deliver new features so you design 
something that allows you to do that. So they will be able to deliver what you 
want faster regardless of whether others use LCB.

Cheers

Monte

--
M E R Goulding http://goulding.ws/ 
Software development services
Bespoke application development for vertical markets

mergExt http://mergext.com/ - There's an external for that!

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread J. Landman Gay


On 11 May 2015, at 9:52 pm, Bjoernke von Gierke b...@mac.com wrote:

 It's not xTalk, just like widgets (at least right now) are not LC.

But once written they are. The developer uses LCB but after you install 
a widget it acts just like a built-in control. For Trevor's slider, for 
example, you would set the knobcolor of slider 1 to blue.


LCB can create libraries as well as controls. If someone writes an xml 
widget/library it could become xtalk too. The datagrid would be another 
good candidate for a widget. Then we'd have a real table control.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

RE: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

 While HyperCard WAS (and I am capitalising that deliberately) 
 written in pseudo-English that was for the simple reason that 
 at that point the ONLY people who were buying Apple's 
 computers were North Americans and Richmond, who happened to 
 be in North America at the time (thanks to his academically 
 brilliant Bulgarian wife who got a Fulbright scholarship).

I was using HyperCard in Japan back in the System 6.x / 7 era with a shiny
HyperCard 2 box (which I still have) - practically bulging with all the
manuals and disk packs! Apple's computers sold pretty well in Japan then,
but at about twice the price as you could buy them in the US.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread J. Landman Gay

On May 11, 2015 10:30:21 AM CDT, Geoff Canyon gcan...@gmail.com wrote:
Apart from the basics like ñ and é, how do you enter non-ascii
characters
on iOS? Do iPhones in Russia display a different keyboard by default?
How
about asian countries where the character set is hundreds or thousands
of
images?

Yes. 

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT202178

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited


On 11/05/15 17:06, Geoff Canyon wrote:

the language *itself* is in english

Well, apart from the oversight of not capitalising the name of the language,
I don't think the language (i.e. the scripting language inwith 
LiveCode) is
in English, nor is it English, it is, at best, something English-like, 
and, as

time goes on and the language develops it tends to stray away from its
semblance to English and increasingly resemble other programming languages
(such as C++, which is not surprising considering what is going on in the
mother-ship).

The ASCII set is ancient history - I remember both learning it in 1975 
(when I was 13)
and attending a lecture at the University of Durham in 1984 when it was 
pointed out how

cramping and limiting the ASCII set would eventually prove to be.

Now, here we are 30-odd years later (after I went to that lecture) and 
all sorts of things

have happened (in case anyone hasn't noticed them):

1. No more totalitarian Commie bloc - who, by the way, did a lot of work 
on how to

implement Cyrillic.

2. The Asian Tiger has got us all shaking in our boots, except for 
clever chaps like Andy Parng

who manage to have the best of both worlds.

3. India; a totally whacked-out country that manages to sport more 
writing systems inside its borders

than one cares to think of.

Oddly enough, in 1989 I was spending my spare time in Al Ain, in the UAE 
(where I was teaching English and Maths at an
Egyptian, Muslim school) implementing several non-latin scripts on a BBC 
Micro: being, as usual, so far ahead of the wave that

I ended washed up on the beach. :)

I should be grateful that I am 53 and not 23 (although, frankly, I'm 
not) insofar as my job as an EFL teacher
is seriously threatened as within a generation people are probably not 
going to want to learn English anymore:

it's going to be Mandarin Chinese in all probability.

And the bl**dy-minded Chinese, for all the talk about Pinyin, are JUST 
NOT going to give up their
writing system in a hurry, which makes the ASCII set look like 3 LEGO 
blocks and a pair of wheels versus

LEGO Technic and Mindstorms.

While HyperCard WAS (and I am capitalising that deliberately) written in 
pseudo-English that was for the simple
reason that at that point the ONLY people who were buying Apple's 
computers were North Americans and Richmond, who happened
to be in North America at the time (thanks to his academically brilliant 
Bulgarian wife who got a Fulbright scholarship).


Now LiveCode, while bearing the mantle passed down through MetaCard of 
HyperCard, has pretensions to be more than
a North American Programming Oddity (which is what HyperCard was), but a 
Programming Environment for every person,

regardless of their nationality and native language.

If LiveCode does not support non-ASCII writing systems and character 
sets (and Unicode is the de facto, even if not the de jure, standard)

those pretensions will be seen to be nonsense.

I cannot see any reason why, possibly with LCB, a parser could not be 
developed that would allow Chinese programmers to actually program
in LiveCode WITHOUT having to learn LiveCode's original programming 
language, but by using something vaguely Chinesey (rather

like LiveCode's vaguely Englishy current scripting language).

Richmond.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited


On 11/05/15 17:27, Mark Schonewille wrote:

Hi,

A quick look-up on Wikipedia:

Innocenzo Manzetti considered the idea of a telephone as early as 
1844, and may have made one in 1864, as an enhancement to an automaton 
built by him in 1849.


Why doesn't Italy have 001?

Don't answer that the US invented electricity: it is said that the 
Babylonians did this some time earlier.


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille



The Americans have invented very little indeed.

What the Americans have done is pinched other people's inventions and 
improved them immensely, to the extent

that they can fool people they invented the things in the first place.

Some Americans even think they invented English; which was invented by a 
load of vulgar northern Frenchmen

attempting to speak Anglo-Saxon and getting it wrong.

Richmond.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited


On 11/05/15 18:49, Lynn Fredricks wrote:

Odd as it sounds, they figured out that there's a huge demand for a
microsoft product, any microsoft product, that doesn't suck  . . .


It does sound odd; especially as it has taken them about 20
years to work it out.

I actually like a lot of specific versions of MS products. I hope that the
departure of Monkey Boy will result in more consistency of the good, rather
than the good - suck - acceptable - suck cycle.


Who is Monkey Boy? Do tell.

Richmond.


Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited


On 11/05/15 20:56, Terence Heaford wrote:

I think he self identified as a Canadian.

Where he eventually died.


Most people do eventually die.

If he self-identified as a Canadian I wonder why he is described as a 
Scottish-American around and about?


Richmond.



All the best

Terry



On 11 May 2015, at 18:52, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:

BUT . . . did he self-identify as a Scot at the time he invented the 
telephone?

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Trevor DeVore

On Monday, May 11, 2015, Geoff Canyon gcan...@gmail.com wrote:

 Apart from the basics like ñ and é, how do you enter non-ascii characters
 on iOS? Do iPhones in Russia display a different keyboard by default? How
 about asian countries where the character set is hundreds or thousands of
 images?


I don't know. I don't develop commercial apps for iOS. I am developing
desktop software.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited


On 11/05/15 17:31, Terence Heaford wrote:

And….


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Graham_Bell 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Graham_Bell


Alexander Graham Bell is  a Scottish 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_people scientist


Not really: as far as I know, his father was Scots, while he, himself 
was born in the USA.


My second son was born in the USA (and is currently studying at UPENN), 
and while very proud
of both his Scots and his Bulgarian roots would get fairly stroppy if 
you suggested he was not an American.


Richmond.



All the best

Terry






___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

Alexander Graham Bell was born in Edinburgh, Scotland.

All the best

Terry

 On 11 May 2015, at 18:31, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Not really: as far as I know, his father was Scots, while he, himself was 
 born in the USA.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

But he was an American in the states when he did it...  



 On May 11, 2015, at 10:31 AM, Terence Heaford t.heaf...@icloud.com wrote:
 
 And….
 
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Graham_Bell 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Graham_Bell
 
 
 Alexander Graham Bell is  a Scottish 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_people scientist
 
 
 All the best
 
 Terry
 
 
 
 On 11 May 2015, at 15:27, Mark Schonewille 
 m.schonewi...@economy-x-talk.com wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 A quick look-up on Wikipedia:
 
 Innocenzo Manzetti considered the idea of a telephone as early as 1844, and 
 may have made one in 1864, as an enhancement to an automaton built by him in 
 1849.
 
 Why doesn't Italy have 001?
 
 Don't answer that the US invented electricity: it is said that the 
 Babylonians did this some time earlier.
 
 --
 Best regards,
 
 Mark Schonewille
 
 Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
 Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
 Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
 KvK: 50277553
 
 Installer Maker for LiveCode:
 http://qery.us/468
 
 Buy my new book Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner 
 http://qery.us/3fi
 
 LiveCode on Facebook:
 https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/
 
 On 5/11/2015 16:09, PystCat wrote:
 I have a friend who gets very annoyed that the Americans always control 
 things.  When I ask for clarification of this I get, Well... For 
 instance, why does the States have to be 001 in the international 
 dialing? Answer me THAT..!  The answer... We invented the telephone.  
 If you want to control something, invent it.  That shut him up.
 
 If you want a language to be controlled in whatever language you want... 
 Invent one.
 
 
 
 
 
 On May 11, 2015, at 9:30 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 
 On 05/11/2015 03:40 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:
 On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Mark Waddingham m...@livecode.com 
 wrote:
 
 As a case in point, I just opened up revNavigator from the plugins menu -
 and it works in 7. Indeed, if I have objects with Unicode names,
 revNavigator still works perfectly, displaying precisely what you would
 expect. There was no need for me to modify the code, nor do anything to 
 the
 stack.
 
 Ha, way to hit me where I live :-) Are developers really naming objects
 with unicode-only names? Why? It's not like repeat or filter are
 localized, so how much of a benefit is it really that variable names and
 object names can be in cyrillic?
 
 
 Well, it may be that your work goes a lot more smoothly if you can give 
 your
 variables and objects names that are relatively easy to remember because 
 they are
 in your native language.
 
 I don't know what you call your variables and objects, but I always give 
 them names
 that make sense to me and have some sort of connexion to their function: 
 flds such
 as OOT, DOONBY, BIGGIN, BYRE mak a heil puckle o sense tae ma mind 
 mair
 than Sudron yins, as well as aa those that aiblins hae nummers: yin, twa, 
 three, fower,
 fife, sax, se'en, nichan, teen. Now, sud I wark fae a stoor mon that has 
 Bulgarian fae his leid
 he mun find it mense fu gif I caa them names he kens: КОТИКА, ТОРБИЧКА, 
 ОБОР.
 
 The unconscious arrogance of the English-speaking world never ceases to 
 amaze me.
 
 It might not be a bad idea to meditate on the fact that an awful lot of 
 people conduct
 their daily lives using non-latinate writing systems.
 
 Richmond.
 
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
 
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
 
 
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
 preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
 
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
 preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited


On 11/05/15 17:46, Terence Heaford wrote:

Just for fun.


Can someone tell me who invented the Computer?



All the best

Terry


Well it was either Charles Babbage in England - who invented a 
mechanical computer,


The inventor of the strange navigational computer fished out of the 
Mediterranean and dated as about 2500 years old,


Or those bods in the second World War working at Bletchley Park in England,

or all sorts of other tinkerers we have not heard of . . .

Because it is well known that no one person ever invents one thing, but 
that at some point in history

several people seem to come up with incredibly similar things.

Think of Calculus and then try to work out if it was Newton or Leibniz, 
or that other bloke whose name escapes me.


Richmond.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

 The Americans have invented very little indeed.
 
 What the Americans have done is pinched other people's inventions and 
 improved them immensely, to the extent
 that they can fool people they invented the things in the first place.

Examples and/or citations, please.  

 Some Americans even think they invented English; which was invented by a load 
 of vulgar northern Frenchmen
 attempting to speak Anglo-Saxon and getting it wrong.

Well... Considering the country is only a little over 200 years old, I find 
this to be just a little too silly to even believe.  

(do those smiley emojis come through on this list...?)



 On May 11, 2015, at 1:29 PM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On 11/05/15 17:27, Mark Schonewille wrote:
 Hi,
 
 A quick look-up on Wikipedia:
 
 Innocenzo Manzetti considered the idea of a telephone as early as 1844, and 
 may have made one in 1864, as an enhancement to an automaton built by him in 
 1849.
 
 Why doesn't Italy have 001?
 
 Don't answer that the US invented electricity: it is said that the 
 Babylonians did this some time earlier.
 
 -- 
 Best regards,
 
 Mark Schonewille
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Richmond.
 
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
 preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

I think he self identified as a Canadian.

Where he eventually died.


All the best

Terry


 On 11 May 2015, at 18:52, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 BUT . . . did he self-identify as a Scot at the time he invented the 
 telephone?

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

On 11/05/15 17:09, PystCat wrote:

I have a friend who gets very annoyed that the Americans always control things. When I ask for
clarification of this I get, Well... For instance, why does the States have to be 001 in the
international dialing? Answer me THAT..! The answer... We invented the telephone. If you
want to control something, invent it. That shut him up.

If you want a language to be controlled in whatever language you want... Invent
one.

But, oddly enough, computers were invented in England, and the USA
hijacked them.

The only comfort I get is that the USA invented Rockabilly, but the
Welsh and the Germans hijacked that and improved it.

Pace Crazy Cavan and the Lennerockers.

Richmond.

On May 11, 2015, at 9:30 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:

On 05/11/2015 03:40 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Mark Waddingham m...@livecode.com wrote:

Well, it may be that your work goes a lot more smoothly if you can give your
variables and objects names that are relatively easy to remember because they
are
in your native language.

I don't know what you call your variables and objects, but I always give them
names
that make sense to me and have some sort of connexion to their function: flds
such
as OOT, DOONBY, BIGGIN, BYRE mak a heil puckle o sense tae ma mind mair
than Sudron yins, as well as aa those that aiblins hae nummers: yin, twa,
three, fower,
fife, sax, se'en, nichan, teen. Now, sud I wark fae a stoor mon that has
Bulgarian fae his leid
he mun find it mense fu gif I caa them names he kens: КОТИКА, ТОРБИЧКА, ОБОР.

The unconscious arrogance of the English-speaking world never ceases to amaze
me.

It might not be a bad idea to meditate on the fact that an awful lot of people
conduct
their daily lives using non-latinate writing systems.

Richmond.

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited

2015-05-11 Thread Klaus major-k

Hi RIchmond,

 Am 11.05.2015 um 19:38 schrieb Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com:
 
 On 11/05/15 18:49, Lynn Fredricks wrote:
 Odd as it sounds, they figured out that there's a huge demand for a
 microsoft product, any microsoft product, that doesn't suck  . . .
 
 It does sound odd; especially as it has taken them about 20
 years to work it out.
 I actually like a lot of specific versions of MS products. I hope that the
 departure of Monkey Boy will result in more consistency of the good, rather
 than the good - suck - acceptable - suck cycle.
 
 Who is Monkey Boy? Do tell.

I consider this a gap in your education, never seen that embarrassing video 
form a MS dev conference?
We are talking about Steve „Developers, Developers“ Ballmer :-)

 Richmond.
 
 Best regards,
 Lynn Fredricks

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited


On 11/05/15 20:43, Terence Heaford wrote:

Alexander Graham Bell was born in Edinburgh, Scotland.


I am surprised, wrong, and stand corrected.

BUT . . . did he self-identify as a Scot at the time he invented the 
telephone?


My children have self-identified themselves as Scots, British, Bulgarian 
and American at various times in
their lives; all of those self-identifications are equally valid as far 
as I can see.


Richmond.


All the best

Terry


On 11 May 2015, at 18:31, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:

Not really: as far as I know, his father was Scots, while he, himself was born 
in the USA.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited


On 11/05/15 20:36, PystCat wrote:

The Americans have invented very little indeed.

What the Americans have done is pinched other people's inventions and improved 
them immensely, to the extent
that they can fool people they invented the things in the first place.

Examples and/or citations, please.  

No citations:

Computers

Televisions

Muffins



Some Americans even think they invented English; which was invented by a load 
of vulgar northern Frenchmen
attempting to speak Anglo-Saxon and getting it wrong.

Well... Considering the country is only a little over 200 years old, I find 
this to be just a little too silly to even believe.  

You, obviously, haven't spent time in Carbondale, Illinois.


(do those smiley emojis come through on this list...?)


Those emojis do come through, although they don't look very smiley; they 
look more like somebody

with quite a nasty growth on the right side of their face.

Richmond.





On May 11, 2015, at 1:29 PM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:


On 11/05/15 17:27, Mark Schonewille wrote:
Hi,

A quick look-up on Wikipedia:

Innocenzo Manzetti considered the idea of a telephone as early as 1844, and may 
have made one in 1864, as an enhancement to an automaton built by him in 1849.

Why doesn't Italy have 001?

Don't answer that the US invented electricity: it is said that the Babylonians 
did this some time earlier.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille






Richmond.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Kickstarter 2013 Revisited