Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 2015-08-29 04:43, Kay C Lan wrote: Oh, and just a slight tangent. I've seen it mentioned before but it hadn't really registered until I was playing with LC8 yesterday, but the new 'Script only Stack' would seem to be the perfect beast to offer up as a guinea pig for Text Editor integration. If my assumptions* are correct (unlikely) then there will be only a single block of text involved which would greatly simplify the tracking and sync process. Get TE Integration to work on Script only Stacks first, and once sorted, move on to any stack. *I'm assuming there are no objects, so you can't have button, field, front or back scripts. No card script? Is there ONLY one stack script? Your assumptions are correct. No card script, only a single stack script, all as a block of text. Here's an example from the LiveCode 8 script editor: https://github.com/runrev/livecode-ide/blob/develop/Toolset/palettes/script%20editor/behaviors/revsestackbehavior.livecodescript Peter -- Dr Peter Brett peter.br...@livecode.com LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! https://reddit.com/r/livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
That URL is not working. Probably should be: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66t=25065p=130099hilit=scriptOnly#p130099 Peter On Aug 29, 2015, at 12:53 AM, Monte Goulding mo...@sweattechnologies.com wrote: scriptOnly ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
Hi Peter Has anyone seen my post on the engine forum about a scriptOnly property for stacks: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66t=25065 Happy to contribute it Cheers Monte Sent from my iPhone On 29 Aug 2015, at 5:00 pm, Peter TB Brett peter.br...@livecode.com wrote: Your assumptions are correct. No card script, only a single stack script, all as a block of text. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 2015-08-29 08:53, Monte Goulding wrote: Hi Peter Has anyone seen my post on the engine forum about a scriptOnly property for stacks: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66t=25065 Happy to contribute it This looks like the sort of thing that's best off being looked at by Mark Waddingham. Unfortunately my last day before my annual holiday is the day before he gets back from his annual holiday, so I'm not going to be able to bring this up with him for at least a couple of weeks. Can I suggest that you e-mail him directly? Or just submit a PR on GitHub, that'll make sure it doesn't get forgotten about. ;-) Peter -- Dr Peter Brett peter.br...@livecode.com LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! https://reddit.com/r/livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
I'm still in the early days of using the sts plugin but I believe the restriction on not having the script editor window open at the same time is to avoid clashes if edits are made to the same script in both places. On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 9:15 AM Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: Kay C Lan wrote: On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 10:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Kay C Lan wrote: a better mechanism to track the changes and transfer those back and forth - that improvement can only be done from the mothership. What's needed? Let's make it so. Love the positive attitude :-) Just being selfish: I spend a lot of time in LC, so anything that helps make the workflow smoother benefits me. From memory stsMLXEditor was written when the SE was a seperate animal to the Debugger, hence: The external editor will not open a script if the IDE script editor window is open. Should be fixable, likely something that can be changed in stsMLXEditor. I think when the SE and Debugger merged stsMLXEditor became less useful because it was no longer possible to have just the Debugger open and my TE. MetaCard when through a similar transition, and while some prefer it I don't. If nothing else, having one window designed to perform to different and distinctly complex tasks complicates the code, a lot. But also, once a debugger is made separate from an editor it can be used in contexts where editing may not be possible, such as debugging standalones. I haven't had a look for quite a while, so maybe I need to give it another whirl and see - although it looks as though a few others are giving it a go so maybe they'll come up with some constructive criticisms. Please do. Your insights are often very valuable, and in this case the benefits nay extend beyond editor integration since at the heart of this is a question about inter-app communication, which has even broader applications. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
Kay C Lan wrote: On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 10:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Kay C Lan wrote: a better mechanism to track the changes and transfer those back and forth - that improvement can only be done from the mothership. What's needed? Let's make it so. Love the positive attitude :-) Just being selfish: I spend a lot of time in LC, so anything that helps make the workflow smoother benefits me. From memory stsMLXEditor was written when the SE was a seperate animal to the Debugger, hence: The external editor will not open a script if the IDE script editor window is open. Should be fixable, likely something that can be changed in stsMLXEditor. I think when the SE and Debugger merged stsMLXEditor became less useful because it was no longer possible to have just the Debugger open and my TE. MetaCard when through a similar transition, and while some prefer it I don't. If nothing else, having one window designed to perform to different and distinctly complex tasks complicates the code, a lot. But also, once a debugger is made separate from an editor it can be used in contexts where editing may not be possible, such as debugging standalones. I haven't had a look for quite a while, so maybe I need to give it another whirl and see - although it looks as though a few others are giving it a go so maybe they'll come up with some constructive criticisms. Please do. Your insights are often very valuable, and in this case the benefits nay extend beyond editor integration since at the heart of this is a question about inter-app communication, which has even broader applications. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 29 Aug 2015, at 10:22 pm, Peter TB Brett peter.br...@livecode.com wrote: This looks like the sort of thing that's best off being looked at by Mark Waddingham. Unfortunately my last day before my annual holiday is the day before he gets back from his annual holiday, so I'm not going to be able to bring this up with him for at least a couple of weeks. Can I suggest that you e-mail him directly? I’ll just wait for Mark to get back. It’s a simple one but there’s obviously dire consequences for your stack objects if you set the scriptOnly to true so I’d like to get the nod before bothering. The engine forum has gone fairly quiet lately but the original idea was we would propose stuff we wanted to do then get the nod on syntax and whether it would be accepted if we did it etc. It may be that script only stacks are short term and the long term plan is not to have these scripts be stacks but update start using, back|front script and behavior to point to files rater than objects. Is that why they aren’t documented? Or just submit a PR on GitHub, that'll make sure it doesn't get forgotten about. ;-) I actually had some PRs that were forgotten about although I think both of them have now or will in the future at least become irrelevant because of widgets. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 08/27/2015 10:41 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: You did the obvious, and restarted LC after placing the plugin right? If you didn't restart lc, and you don't want to, an easy way to force a re-read of the plugins folder is to go into the plugin settings. You don't have to do anything, just going to the settings dialog forced the re-read. I looked in the settings dialogue as you suggested, and there it is, but it still does not up in the Plugins menu; instead it loads as a small palette. Thanks. Richmond. On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/27/2015 09:02 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Kay C Lan wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:03 AM, RunRevPlanet wrote: None of my comments are from the perspective that enabling LiveCode to use an external editor is a bad thing. So we agree then. As Richard said, choice is a good thing. More that for a cross platform IDE, written in it's supported language, to have an inadequate text editor is a very bad look Again, we agree. and turns programmers away. Only if they don't have a choice to use something better. Choice is useful only so long as it's a choice, rather than a requirement. It would hardly be an INTEGRATED development environment if it didn't have a script editor. Moreover, a script editor is a very good example of the sort of thing LiveCode can do very well. And best of all, AFAIK no one in the company is thinking about shipping LC without a script editor. Given all this, making the current script editor robust and performant would logically seem among the highest priorities, since a good SE makes the product a joy to use and a poor SE makes LC look bad. In short, the choice is to either make more money or less, to the degree that the SE is solid and enjoyable. After all, it's the one part of the IDE everyone uses most often. Along the way, reinstating an updated version of MetaCard's support for external editors would be useful AS AN OPTION, and probably something the community could deliver. To make the latter work well we'll want formatting and colorization plugins for as many third party editors as we can make them for - again, best done by the community since each of us has our own favorite so each of us may be motivated to write a LiveCode add-on for it. This page at Ken Ray's site discusses how external editors can be used in LC, with links to various LC-specific modules (though some of these may need to be updated): http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/downloads/stsMLXEditor.htm Well: I've just downloaded the stsMLXEditor and placed it in the /livecodecommunity-7.0.6 (x86_64)/Plugins/ folder and it does not show up in /Development/Plugins in the 7.0.6 menu . . . Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Peter TB Brett peter.br...@livecode.com wrote: I was bored one evening (in my spare time) and decided to explore adding new syntax highlighting rules to Atom. Now wonder the story isn't more exciting. You really need to get out more ;-) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 28/08/2015 09:17, Kay C Lan wrote: I don't use Atom but from some recent posting it appears that some kind of LC/Atom connection has been made. I wonder if that may have been driven by the amount of time the LC Team spend at Github and Atom is the Github team developed Text Editor? Guess I better check it out. I'm afraid the story isn't that exciting... I was bored one evening (in my spare time) and decided to explore adding new syntax highlighting rules to Atom. Then the LCB package sort of happened, then people started using it. I use Emacs as my primary editor. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett peter.br...@livecode.com LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 3:49 PM, RunRevPlanet f...@smpcsupport.com wrote: One of the promoted strengths of LiveCode is that it is live coding. In other words I can make a change in my script and immediately see the effect. Now while I understand the virtues of using the external text editor of your choice. With your example of XCode and an external editor, is it possible to set breakpoints and single step through the code in your preferred external editor? Well yes and no. As has already been pointed out, because of the long standing undercurrent that people have longed for a SE with better text manipulation capabilities, several attempts have been made by individuals to achieve that. I've used Ken's stsMLXEditor a long time ago and it allowed me to use my favourite text editor which allowed me to place breakpoints anywhere I wanted. Like GLX2, which I like very much, they both handed back debugging to Rev/LC. I have no problem with that - Text Editor for text manipulation, debugger for debugging. The problem though, was that stsMLXEditor was a bit of a patch job which needed a better mechanism to track the changes and transfer those back and forth - that improvement can only be done from the mothership. GLX2 used an improved mechanism but only bought a handful of improved Text Editing tools to the table - better than the inbuilt SE but no match for my favourite. What both of these proved is that it is possible. I don't use Atom but from some recent posting it appears that some kind of LC/Atom connection has been made. I wonder if that may have been driven by the amount of time the LC Team spend at Github and Atom is the Github team developed Text Editor? Guess I better check it out. And just to be clear, I've never suggested that LC should not have an SE, it most definitely must, and as Richmond has suggested it's lack of bloat is probably ideal for the new to programming or hobbyist level programmer. My comments have only suggested the ability to use an external TE would be a worthwhile enhancement as it would mean 'professional' programmers might feel a little more comfortable and be a little more productive using tools they are already familiar with. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 4:47 PM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: I would be most interested to see a *coherent and numbered list* of these issues rather than a chorus of people saying how awful the scriptEditor is. Off the top of my head: 1) copy paste via keyboard How many times have you copied from somewhere external and you can't use the keyboard to paste it into LC. Either you need to use the mouse+menu or the data isn't even there - in which case I find myself pasting the data into a text editor, copying it again and then pasting into LC. (this is more a long standing bug of LC and not just the SE) 2) customiseable keyboard shortcuts It's just nice and convenient to be able to allocate ANY of EVERY single menu item a keyboard shortcut. Time saver. 3) more script space, less wasted space Because the SE doubles as the debugger it has a LOT of wasted space. I want my SE to be 90% text, the rest tools and nicities, like my TE. I want my debugger sort of the opposite, 40% script and the rest debugging info - typically I can't see enough variable values. As someone else pointed out, why can't I view Variables and breakpoints concurently when debugging? Why does the Error message need as much space as the Variable viewer? I've never seen one that's taken up more than two lines, and even then it could all be displayed on one line. Effecient workspace. 4) autocompletion The flexibility of not using explicit variables with the safety net of spelling them correctly all the time. Time saver. 5) spellchecking Can load custom dictionaries so whilst mine generally checks I spell colour correctly, for LC work I can make sure I spell it the other way. Time saver. 6) boilerplates I can type in switch and a little popup will come up with switch3, switch3d, switch4, switch4d,... switch9, switch9d. I can either click on one or type switch5d and press return and a bare switch statement with 5 case entries will be created for me including the default structure. If I didn't specify the d at the end, no default structure is included. Actually 99% of the time I use the switch default structure as a place to catch logic errors so my boiler place includes: default answer A Case I Haven't Considered. Check the Variables. titled Switch Case Error breakpoint end switch All typed out for me automatically. Time Saver 7) Inbuilt scripting Strange that for a scripting language this is listed. Take this SQL statement: SELECT * FROM table WHERE f1 = AA AND f2 = BB AND f3 = DD if I need to do this: put SELECT * FROM table WHERE f1 = AA AND f2 = BB AND f3 = DD into tQuery it will not work because of the quotes in SQL have a different meaning to LC so I need to replace all those with quote - except the first and last . Yes, I appreciate I could do it manually with Find and Replace but that's slow, or I can modify LC to allow me to run a script to do that selective replacement similar to what I do in my TE, but I'm just surprised at how much easier it is to do im my TE and just a keystroke a way. Time saver. 8) folding The ability to collapse a handler, control structure, multiline comments down to a single line - an absolute godsend. Again I want the text I'm interested in to cover 90% or more of my screen. So many times, portions of what I'm focusing on are spread over just more than what is displayed in the SE - why is that? Copy and paste into my TE and most of the time I'm sweet, but often enough I wish I was able to collapse a 5 case switch statments down to a single line and remove the 4 line comment because then what I need to be looking at would all be viewable. Can be done with other languages. You wont appreciate it until you've used it. 9) bracket pairing How many times has your code been in error because of a mismatch in brackets? Every TE worth it's salt provides some sort of indication of bracket pairing, not just whilst you type the brackets, but also you can come back and click on a bracket and it's mate will be hilighted. Also, an unmatched bracket is highlited immediately, not when you go to Apply/Save. Time saver. 10) search and replace remembered The last 10 searches and replacements are stored, although I think that's only because I set it to 10. As most of my search and replace are regex, and I'm NOT very good at it, having these saved is extremely convenient. Nice feature. 11) regex search pattern validation Any serious work with text will at some time require a bit of regex. Whilst building regex search and replace patterns my TE automatically validates the code. To be fair, LC has a built in Regex Builder so you can test your regex prior to use, but this isn't quite as nice as having it automatically check your Find or Replace box entry. Nice feature 12) regex manual Because I don't do too much regex, unless it's very basic I always need to refer to a syntax manual. My TE has one built
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 08/28/2015 01:30 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 4:47 PM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: I would be most interested to see a *coherent and numbered list* of these issues rather than a chorus of people saying how awful the scriptEditor is. Off the top of my head: 1) copy paste via keyboard How many times have you copied from somewhere external and you can't use the keyboard to paste it into LC. Either you need to use the mouse+menu or the data isn't even there - in which case I find myself pasting the data into a text editor, copying it again and then pasting into LC. (this is more a long standing bug of LC and not just the SE) Something very odd indeed on the Linux side: I can not copy script directly into an office suite or the ThunderBird e-mail client (which I would like to be able to do):I have to copy-paste into a bog-basic text editor, and then copy-paste from the text editor into whatever, losing all the contextual colouring along the way. My point of comparison is with LC 4.5 on a PPC Mac running 10.5.7, where I can copy-paste back-and-forth to my heart's content into Appleworks 6 or Clarisworks 5 keeping colourisation. 2) customiseable keyboard shortcuts It's just nice and convenient to be able to allocate ANY of EVERY single menu item a keyboard shortcut. Time saver. Not sure if that is the scriptEditor as such, or the IDE in general. 3) more script space, less wasted space Because the SE doubles as the debugger it has a LOT of wasted space. I want my SE to be 90% text, the rest tools and nicities, like my TE. I want my debugger sort of the opposite, 40% script and the rest debugging info - typically I can't see enough variable values. As someone else pointed out, why can't I view Variables and breakpoints concurently when debugging? Why does the Error message need as much space as the Variable viewer? I've never seen one that's taken up more than two lines, and even then it could all be displayed on one line. Effecient workspace. You can drag the sections about: I normally have my scriptEditortaking up almost everything except for 1 line of the debugger. 4) autocompletion The flexibility of not using explicit variables with the safety net of spelling them correctly all the time. Time saver. Yes and No: I turn off autocompletion in my office suites as do not like the things second-guessing my intentions; especially as the suggestions are often-as-not different to my intentions. 5) spellchecking Can load custom dictionaries so whilst mine generally checks I spell colour correctly, for LC work I can make sure I spell it the other way. Time saver. Yuck. Maybe JUST for LiveCode reserved words, so the thing doesn't get in the way of words such as 'colour' and 'sceptical'. 6) boilerplates I can type in switch and a little popup will come up with switch3, switch3d, switch4, switch4d,... switch9, switch9d. I can either click on one or type switch5d and press return and a bare switch statement with 5 case entries will be created for me including the default structure. If I didn't specify the d at the end, no default structure is included. Actually 99% of the time I use the switch default structure as a place to catch logic errors so my boiler place includes: default answer A Case I Haven't Considered. Check the Variables. titled Switch Case Error breakpoint end switch All typed out for me automatically. Time Saver 7) Inbuilt scripting Strange that for a scripting language this is listed. Take this SQL statement: SELECT * FROM table WHERE f1 = AA AND f2 = BB AND f3 = DD if I need to do this: put SELECT * FROM table WHERE f1 = AA AND f2 = BB AND f3 = DD into tQuery it will not work because of the quotes in SQL have a different meaning to LC so I need to replace all those with quote - except the first and last . Yes, I appreciate I could do it manually with Find and Replace but that's slow, or I can modify LC to allow me to run a script to do that selective replacement similar to what I do in my TE, but I'm just surprised at how much easier it is to do im my TE and just a keystroke a way. Time saver. Indeed, that whole thing about 'quote' is a major pain in the bum. 8) folding The ability to collapse a handler, control structure, multiline comments down to a single line - an absolute godsend. Again I want the text I'm interested in to cover 90% or more of my screen. So many times, portions of what I'm focusing on are spread over just more than what is displayed in the SE - why is that? Copy and paste into my TE and most of the time I'm sweet, but often enough I wish I was able to collapse a 5 case switch statments down to a single line and remove the 4 line comment because then what I need to be looking at would all be viewable. Can be done with other languages. You wont appreciate it until you've used it. 9) bracket pairing
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
Kay C Lan wrote: The problem though, was that stsMLXEditor was a bit of a patch job which needed a better mechanism to track the changes and transfer those back and forth - that improvement can only be done from the mothership. What's needed? Let's make it so. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
Oh, and just a slight tangent. I've seen it mentioned before but it hadn't really registered until I was playing with LC8 yesterday, but the new 'Script only Stack' would seem to be the perfect beast to offer up as a guinea pig for Text Editor integration. If my assumptions* are correct (unlikely) then there will be only a single block of text involved which would greatly simplify the tracking and sync process. Get TE Integration to work on Script only Stacks first, and once sorted, move on to any stack. *I'm assuming there are no objects, so you can't have button, field, front or back scripts. No card script? Is there ONLY one stack script? ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 10:46 PM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: Kay C Lan wrote: a better mechanism to track the changes and transfer those back and forth - that improvement can only be done from the mothership. What's needed? Let's make it so. Love the positive attitude :-) From memory stsMLXEditor was written when the SE was a seperate animal to the Debugger, hence: The external editor will not open a script if the IDE script editor window is open. I think when the SE and Debugger merged stsMLXEditor became less useful because it was no longer possible to have just the Debugger open and my TE. I haven't had a look for quite a while, so maybe I need to give it another whirl and see - although it looks as though a few others are giving it a go so maybe they'll come up with some constructive criticisms. And in the interest of Full Disclosure, when I said 'Well yes and no' to my TE letting me add breakpoints, the Yes was because 99.9% of the time I use breakpoint hard coded in my scripts. I've played with Red Dots but I've had them ignored on too many occasions so I've given up on them and just use breakpoint. I appreciate that others use the Red Dots all the time and have far more success with them. I appreciate that they are far more powerful that a hard coded breakpoint because they can be conditional. So there would need to be a way to implement Red Dots for those who like them. IMO, basic Red Dots are the same as a hard breakpoint. In my TE I type cmd-B and I get breakpoint typed out for me - it's faster than grabbing the mouse and clicking on the screen. As a suggestion, conditional waypoints would require something like typing out: breakpointCondtional if tVar = garbage then breakpoint. In this case it would require the LC Team to parse breakpointConditional into a Conditional Red Dot. And vice versa. I think at the moment Red Dots are probably the biggest issue because if you modify blocks of script that contain Red Dots, with blocks of text with a different line count, then the Red Dots are deactivated and typically will no longer match the line they were originally attached to. As you've noted, colourisation is a personal thing. Some find it distracting, others helpful. My TE currently doesn't have the same colourisation capabilities as the SE does so it would be nice if brought into line. I understand Peter added LC colourisation to the Atom Editor. Again I need to have a look at that some time. Interestingly, whilst I normally do like colourisation, when ever I do get a very long script line that fails due to some misplaced , a quick copy and paste in to my TE quickly reveals the culprit because the more basic colourisation of my TE allows the error to be pinpointed more quickly. If my TE matched the SE colourisation, then this wouldn't work. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
Kay C Lan wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:03 AM, RunRevPlanet wrote: None of my comments are from the perspective that enabling LiveCode to use an external editor is a bad thing. So we agree then. As Richard said, choice is a good thing. More that for a cross platform IDE, written in it's supported language, to have an inadequate text editor is a very bad look Again, we agree. and turns programmers away. Only if they don't have a choice to use something better. Choice is useful only so long as it's a choice, rather than a requirement. It would hardly be an INTEGRATED development environment if it didn't have a script editor. Moreover, a script editor is a very good example of the sort of thing LiveCode can do very well. And best of all, AFAIK no one in the company is thinking about shipping LC without a script editor. Given all this, making the current script editor robust and performant would logically seem among the highest priorities, since a good SE makes the product a joy to use and a poor SE makes LC look bad. In short, the choice is to either make more money or less, to the degree that the SE is solid and enjoyable. After all, it's the one part of the IDE everyone uses most often. Along the way, reinstating an updated version of MetaCard's support for external editors would be useful AS AN OPTION, and probably something the community could deliver. To make the latter work well we'll want formatting and colorization plugins for as many third party editors as we can make them for - again, best done by the community since each of us has our own favorite so each of us may be motivated to write a LiveCode add-on for it. This page at Ken Ray's site discusses how external editors can be used in LC, with links to various LC-specific modules (though some of these may need to be updated): http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/downloads/stsMLXEditor.htm -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 08/27/2015 09:02 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Kay C Lan wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:03 AM, RunRevPlanet wrote: None of my comments are from the perspective that enabling LiveCode to use an external editor is a bad thing. So we agree then. As Richard said, choice is a good thing. More that for a cross platform IDE, written in it's supported language, to have an inadequate text editor is a very bad look Again, we agree. and turns programmers away. Only if they don't have a choice to use something better. Choice is useful only so long as it's a choice, rather than a requirement. It would hardly be an INTEGRATED development environment if it didn't have a script editor. Moreover, a script editor is a very good example of the sort of thing LiveCode can do very well. And best of all, AFAIK no one in the company is thinking about shipping LC without a script editor. Given all this, making the current script editor robust and performant would logically seem among the highest priorities, since a good SE makes the product a joy to use and a poor SE makes LC look bad. In short, the choice is to either make more money or less, to the degree that the SE is solid and enjoyable. After all, it's the one part of the IDE everyone uses most often. Along the way, reinstating an updated version of MetaCard's support for external editors would be useful AS AN OPTION, and probably something the community could deliver. To make the latter work well we'll want formatting and colorization plugins for as many third party editors as we can make them for - again, best done by the community since each of us has our own favorite so each of us may be motivated to write a LiveCode add-on for it. This page at Ken Ray's site discusses how external editors can be used in LC, with links to various LC-specific modules (though some of these may need to be updated): http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/downloads/stsMLXEditor.htm Well: I've just downloaded the stsMLXEditor and placed it in the /livecodecommunity-7.0.6 (x86_64)/Plugins/ folder and it does not show up in /Development/Plugins in the 7.0.6 menu . . . Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
You did the obvious, and restarted LC after placing the plugin right? If you didn't restart lc, and you don't want to, an easy way to force a re-read of the plugins folder is to go into the plugin settings. You don't have to do anything, just going to the settings dialog forced the re-read. On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/27/2015 09:02 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Kay C Lan wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:03 AM, RunRevPlanet wrote: None of my comments are from the perspective that enabling LiveCode to use an external editor is a bad thing. So we agree then. As Richard said, choice is a good thing. More that for a cross platform IDE, written in it's supported language, to have an inadequate text editor is a very bad look Again, we agree. and turns programmers away. Only if they don't have a choice to use something better. Choice is useful only so long as it's a choice, rather than a requirement. It would hardly be an INTEGRATED development environment if it didn't have a script editor. Moreover, a script editor is a very good example of the sort of thing LiveCode can do very well. And best of all, AFAIK no one in the company is thinking about shipping LC without a script editor. Given all this, making the current script editor robust and performant would logically seem among the highest priorities, since a good SE makes the product a joy to use and a poor SE makes LC look bad. In short, the choice is to either make more money or less, to the degree that the SE is solid and enjoyable. After all, it's the one part of the IDE everyone uses most often. Along the way, reinstating an updated version of MetaCard's support for external editors would be useful AS AN OPTION, and probably something the community could deliver. To make the latter work well we'll want formatting and colorization plugins for as many third party editors as we can make them for - again, best done by the community since each of us has our own favorite so each of us may be motivated to write a LiveCode add-on for it. This page at Ken Ray's site discusses how external editors can be used in LC, with links to various LC-specific modules (though some of these may need to be updated): http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/downloads/stsMLXEditor.htm Well: I've just downloaded the stsMLXEditor and placed it in the /livecodecommunity-7.0.6 (x86_64)/Plugins/ folder and it does not show up in /Development/Plugins in the 7.0.6 menu . . . Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
I am having the same problem. The plugin doesn't load and it's not listed in the Plugins menu or in the Configure Plugins menu. This is with LC 6.6, and yes I did restart LC after installing it. I opened the plugin manually from the File Open menu and set it up to use the OSX Textmate editor. I haven't experienced the performance issues with the IDE script editor that others have mentioned but I see a lot of features in Textmate that I really like, code folding for example. It would of course be better if this was all built into the IDE script editor but this is a great substitute until that happens. On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 12:42 PM Mike Bonner bonnm...@gmail.com wrote: You did the obvious, and restarted LC after placing the plugin right? If you didn't restart lc, and you don't want to, an easy way to force a re-read of the plugins folder is to go into the plugin settings. You don't have to do anything, just going to the settings dialog forced the re-read. On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/27/2015 09:02 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Kay C Lan wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:03 AM, RunRevPlanet wrote: None of my comments are from the perspective that enabling LiveCode to use an external editor is a bad thing. So we agree then. As Richard said, choice is a good thing. More that for a cross platform IDE, written in it's supported language, to have an inadequate text editor is a very bad look Again, we agree. and turns programmers away. Only if they don't have a choice to use something better. Choice is useful only so long as it's a choice, rather than a requirement. It would hardly be an INTEGRATED development environment if it didn't have a script editor. Moreover, a script editor is a very good example of the sort of thing LiveCode can do very well. And best of all, AFAIK no one in the company is thinking about shipping LC without a script editor. Given all this, making the current script editor robust and performant would logically seem among the highest priorities, since a good SE makes the product a joy to use and a poor SE makes LC look bad. In short, the choice is to either make more money or less, to the degree that the SE is solid and enjoyable. After all, it's the one part of the IDE everyone uses most often. Along the way, reinstating an updated version of MetaCard's support for external editors would be useful AS AN OPTION, and probably something the community could deliver. To make the latter work well we'll want formatting and colorization plugins for as many third party editors as we can make them for - again, best done by the community since each of us has our own favorite so each of us may be motivated to write a LiveCode add-on for it. This page at Ken Ray's site discusses how external editors can be used in LC, with links to various LC-specific modules (though some of these may need to be updated): http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/downloads/stsMLXEditor.htm Well: I've just downloaded the stsMLXEditor and placed it in the /livecodecommunity-7.0.6 (x86_64)/Plugins/ folder and it does not show up in /Development/Plugins in the 7.0.6 menu . . . Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
Peter Haworth wrote: It would of course be better if this was all built into the IDE script editor but this is a great substitute until that happens. Better is nice, but now can be even nicer. :) Plugins are not only easily shared, but also self-contained, so they make a great way to explore ways to extend the IDE without mucking with the IDE directly. Over time perhaps truly great plugins can find their way into the IDE. But for now we can explore all sorts of options, and with the confidence that whatever we make will survive updates to the IDE. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 2015-08-27 21:30, Mike Bonner wrote: I got it to show up finally (7.0.6 on windows) I installed it in my personal plugins folder rather than the 7.0.6 plugins folder. On start of lc, still didn't show up, but went to plugin settings and set it to start when chosen from the plugins menu. Changed it from invisible to modeless. Restarted, set up wordpad as my editor (going to try to get it going with geany next) Changed it back to starting up when lc starts, and its working. By the way -- recent releases of the Atom package for LiveCode support traditional LiveCode scripts as well. Try it out! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett peter.br...@livecode.com LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit! https://reddit.com/r/livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
I got it to show up finally (7.0.6 on windows) I installed it in my personal plugins folder rather than the 7.0.6 plugins folder. On start of lc, still didn't show up, but went to plugin settings and set it to start when chosen from the plugins menu. Changed it from invisible to modeless. Restarted, set up wordpad as my editor (going to try to get it going with geany next) Changed it back to starting up when lc starts, and its working. On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: Peter Haworth wrote: It would of course be better if this was all built into the IDE script editor but this is a great substitute until that happens. Better is nice, but now can be even nicer. :) Plugins are not only easily shared, but also self-contained, so they make a great way to explore ways to extend the IDE without mucking with the IDE directly. Over time perhaps truly great plugins can find their way into the IDE. But for now we can explore all sorts of options, and with the confidence that whatever we make will survive updates to the IDE. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
It's showing up for me now, It's in my personal plugins folder but still doesn't show up in the Development Plugins list or the Plugin Settings list, maybe because the stack name begins with rev? It's hard to locate stuff in the plugin settings list since they don't seem to be in any particular order, certainly not alphabetic as they are in the Plugins list itself. LC 6.6, OSX On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 1:30 PM Mike Bonner bonnm...@gmail.com wrote: I got it to show up finally (7.0.6 on windows) I installed it in my personal plugins folder rather than the 7.0.6 plugins folder. On start of lc, still didn't show up, but went to plugin settings and set it to start when chosen from the plugins menu. Changed it from invisible to modeless. Restarted, set up wordpad as my editor (going to try to get it going with geany next) Changed it back to starting up when lc starts, and its working. On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: Peter Haworth wrote: It would of course be better if this was all built into the IDE script editor but this is a great substitute until that happens. Better is nice, but now can be even nicer. :) Plugins are not only easily shared, but also self-contained, so they make a great way to explore ways to extend the IDE without mucking with the IDE directly. Over time perhaps truly great plugins can find their way into the IDE. But for now we can explore all sorts of options, and with the confidence that whatever we make will survive updates to the IDE. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
Richmond said: I would be most interested to see a *coherent and numbered list* of these issues rather than a chorus of people saying how awful the scriptEditor is. I put a numbered list of 10 issues (some with sub points) in the Open Source Kickstarter Report Card thread over a week ago when Richard G. made me IDE Czar for a day. Hypothetically, of course. The points weren't repeated in this new thread because I didn't want to bore anyone. Were they coherent? I will leave that for history to decide. -- Scott McDonald Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode www.runrevplanet.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 08/27/2015 10:49 AM, RunRevPlanet wrote: Kay C Lan said: take the smart route and build adequate text handling into their products but allow integration with the industry leaders. One of the promoted strengths of LiveCode is that it is live coding. In other words I can make a change in my script and immediately see the effect. Now while I understand the virtues of using the external text editor of your choice. With your example of XCode and an external editor, is it possible to set breakpoints and single step through the code in your preferred external editor? Very well put. Certainly LiveCode should have a built-in scriptEditor, as should the Extension Builder in LiveCode 8 . . . see abusive comments elsewhere. When debugging in the live coding environment which is LiveCode I expect to be able single step through *and* edit my code in the one place with more than the current rudimentary facilities. While I give Geany as an example cause I like it, it is known as a very light-weight IDE, so it is not a totally unreasonable starting point for the minimum of what an adequate editor should be capable of. By all means allow external editors, but my point is the current LiveCode IDE Script Editor is *not even adequate* and having external plugin editors doesn't fully work around the usability issues. not even adequate, um, by what set of criteria? Personally I like the LiveCode scriptEditor just because it is *NOT* so feature laden one gets lost. usability issues [yuck; my least favourite word again; 'issues') I would be most interested to see a *coherent and numbered list* of these issues rather than a chorus of people saying how awful the scriptEditor is. I used the scriptEditor of LC 4.5 (which seems the same as that in 7.0.5) to put together scripts that are 6,000 lines long (), do *search and replace* exercises and so on. I tried, a few times, transferring my code into an external editor (Appleworks, aka Clarisworks 6,on a MacPPC running 10.4), and while it did do search and replace a bit quicker (didn't give me time to gulp my coffee),apart from that there was no obvious advantage. Admittedly I am assessing the scriptEditor with only VB6 for comparison (which stinks). -- Scott McDonald Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode www.runrevplanet.com Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
Kay C Lan said: take the smart route and build adequate text handling into their products but allow integration with the industry leaders. One of the promoted strengths of LiveCode is that it is live coding. In other words I can make a change in my script and immediately see the effect. Now while I understand the virtues of using the external text editor of your choice. With your example of XCode and an external editor, is it possible to set breakpoints and single step through the code in your preferred external editor? When debugging in the live coding environment which is LiveCode I expect to be able single step through *and* edit my code in the one place with more than the current rudimentary facilities. While I give Geany as an example cause I like it, it is known as a very light-weight IDE, so it is not a totally unreasonable starting point for the minimum of what an adequate editor should be capable of. By all means allow external editors, but my point is the current LiveCode IDE Script Editor is *not even adequate* and having external plugin editors doesn't fully work around the usability issues. -- Scott McDonald Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode www.runrevplanet.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
Kay C Lan wrote: On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 5:42 AM, RunRevPlanet feed at smpcsupport.com wrote: For all three I use Geany. http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode It's not clear to me what integration Geany and Webstorm have built in, but let's dream and say LiveCode allowed you to use Geany as it's Script Editior. This would be a bad thing because? Choice is rarely a bad thing. Not sure why this wasn't adopted in the LiveCode IDE; MetaCard had a menu item for using external editors as far back as I can recall. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 5:42 AM, RunRevPlanet f...@smpcsupport.com wrote: For all three I use Geany. http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode It's not clear to me what integration Geany and Webstorm have built in, but let's dream and say LiveCode allowed you to use Geany as it's Script Editior. This would be a bad thing because? ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
Kay C Lan said: let's dream and say LiveCode allowed you to use Geany as it's Script Editior. This would be a bad thing because? None of my comments are from the perspective that enabling LiveCode to use an external editor is a bad thing. More that for a cross platform IDE, written in it's supported language, to have an inadequate text editor (in the context of not having an editor plugin feature as standard) is a very bad look and turns programmers away. The impression that I prefer the existing Script Editor to be improved, instead of integrating another editor, is simply because I suspect fixing the current editor will be *quicker* than integrating an external editor. I have no hard facts on how long either process would take to do, it is only a suspicion. -- Scott McDonald Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode www.runrevplanet.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
Thierry Douez said: If you are interested to this project, do you have some knowledge or links about adding a language, compilation tools,.. to geany? No I don't know of any links and haven't done that sort of work before, so I am afraid I can't be much help. I will have a look around though, and see what I can find, as I am curious about what is involved. -- Scott McDonald Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode www.runrevplanet.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
So has anyone looked at dp3 to see if the script editor is strapped, yet, or are we still a ways off from that? Once it's more workable (because you oughta try working on that code, now. Ugh), hopefully we can all make it better. On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 9:03 PM, RunRevPlanet f...@smpcsupport.com wrote: Kay C Lan said: let's dream and say LiveCode allowed you to use Geany as it's Script Editior. This would be a bad thing because? None of my comments are from the perspective that enabling LiveCode to use an external editor is a bad thing. More that for a cross platform IDE, written in it's supported language, to have an inadequate text editor (in the context of not having an editor plugin feature as standard) is a very bad look and turns programmers away. The impression that I prefer the existing Script Editor to be improved, instead of integrating another editor, is simply because I suspect fixing the current editor will be *quicker* than integrating an external editor. I have no hard facts on how long either process would take to do, it is only a suspicion. -- Scott McDonald Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode www.runrevplanet.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, This is good. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:03 AM, RunRevPlanet f...@smpcsupport.com wrote: None of my comments are from the perspective that enabling LiveCode to use an external editor is a bad thing. So we agree then. As Richard said, choice is a good thing. More that for a cross platform IDE, written in it's supported language, to have an inadequate text editor is a very bad look Again, we agree. and turns programmers away. Only if they don't have a choice to use something better. And I contend, that for 'serious' developers, those that might work in a team or an environment where certain tools are 'standard', then being able to leverage those tools may be the actual tipping point of even having a look at LC in the first place, and being able to use familiar tools may cause them to stick around longer. The impression that I prefer the existing Script Editor to be improved, Yes, the current SE needs improvement, but will they ever get to the point that it matches your Geany yard stick, or my yardstick, or some other developers yard stick? instead of integrating another editor, is simply because I suspect fixing the current editor will be *quicker* than integrating an external editor. I have no hard facts on how long either process would take to do, it is only a suspicion. http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode And that is where we differ. How many multi language capable IDEs are out there. Why, because as Richard implied, you can't please everyone so you need to give them choice. Even Xcode, from the company that enshrines in house, walled garden, made by us and only us, allows you to choose the text editor of your choice to manipulate the text files you write. I'll admit, like you, I don't know exactly how long it would take to implement, but as has been pointed out, it appears to have existed in some form or another in previous incarnations and the foundations of which may still lurk beneath. My suspicion is that there are entire communities (Vim), teams (Atom - subset of Github) and companies (Sublime Text) dedicated to the art of text manipulation - it's not easy. There is a very good reason many many other communities, teams and companies take the smart route and build adequate text handling into their products but allow integration with the industry leaders. But to counter my own argument, this really comes down to what the coders at the mothership are doing. If they spend every hour of the working day between the LC IDE and their favourite Text Editor for Engine code manipulation and Github integration and they are happy, then I should be happy. If on the other hand they find the different keyboard shortcuts, page tool layout and feature set a little annoying, less than ideal or productive, then eventually someone will bite the bullet and say, this has to change! ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
Kay C Lan said: which IDE/Text Editor do you use on Linux, which one on Win and which one on OS X. For all three I use Geany. http://www.geany.org/ Same IDE on all platforms. Same features on all platforms, same keyboard shortcuts. I can jump from one machine/OS to another and simply keep working, without having to think about what can or can't be done on each system. It is fairly minimalistic, but it still has a lot more editing features that programmers want than LiveCode. It also has a plugin system, that includes macros. Open Source too. Rightly or wrongly, it is the yardstick that I compare the LiveCode Script Editor to. Another alternative, for when I sometimes want a more modern, full featured experience is the WebStorm IDE: https://www.jetbrains.com/webstorm/ It is based on Java so it runs the same on all platforms, without being as bloated as Eclipse. It is not Open Source, but still good if you don't mind it using Java. But usually I find myself using Geany more as I can easily run it from a USB stick and it does most of what I expect. -- Scott McDonald Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode www.runrevplanet.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On Aug 24, 2015, at 3:14 AM, Charles Warwick char...@techstrategies.com.au wrote: I recently modified the script editor to do exactly that, as a long list of handlers was getting very annoying, and it has been working very well. Here are two screenshots of the modified script editor: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4bsjmbftg6uue9w/LC%20handler%20filter%20list%20empty.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/4bsjmbftg6uue9w/LC%20handler%20filter%20list%20empty.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1mzgapttpcurfx/LC%20handler%20filter%20list.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1mzgapttpcurfx/LC%20handler%20filter%20list.png?dl=0 I am happy to submit the changes to the git repository if it is of any interest to the LC team. +1. Want. DNA Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
I recently modified the script editor to do exactly that, as a long list of handlers was getting very annoying, and it has been working very well. Here are two screenshots of the modified script editor: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4bsjmbftg6uue9w/LC%20handler%20filter%20list%20empty.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/4bsjmbftg6uue9w/LC%20handler%20filter%20list%20empty.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1mzgapttpcurfx/LC%20handler%20filter%20list.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1mzgapttpcurfx/LC%20handler%20filter%20list.png?dl=0 I am happy to submit the changes to the git repository if it is of any interest to the LC team. Cheers, Charles On 23 Aug 2015, at 6:46 pm, Peter TB Brett peter.br...@livecode.com wrote: On 2015-08-23 02:01, RunRevPlanet wrote: Then then there are bookmarks which are missing. The problem with the handler list pane of the current editor is that with a stack or card with many handlers there is a constant need to scroll up and down that if the two handlers I am working on have names widely separated in the alphabet. I want to see a filter search box added to the script editor's handler list for exactly that reason! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett peter.br...@livecode.com LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit! https://reddit.com/r/livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
J. Landman Gay wrote: I am likely the only person who has always kept coloRizing turned off. Coming from HyperCard, I was used to it and the rainbow hues of a colorized script distracted me. I couldn't concentrate on the content, I kept seeing the colors. There are at least two of us. One of the reasons I have it off is the same as what you noted; personally I find it more distracting than clarifying. Also performance: I do most of my scripting on a 3 GHz Haswell, and even with colorization off it struggles to keep up with even my own modest typing speed. Fortunately opportunities to optimize the SE are being investigated: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15588 http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15711 -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 8/23/2015 11:46 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:44 AM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com wrote: Just out of curiosity, does it get better if you turn off script colonizing? As others have already made the cheap (and funny) one, I'll pass. Until the last pun, I wasn't reading the first syllable with a long O sound. Now that I am, I think you just made another pun. I have seen several scripts that were pulled from...there. But I didn't know that this could be done. Prefs - Script Editor. I am likely the only person who has always kept coloRizing turned off. Coming from HyperCard, I was used to it and the rainbow hues of a colorized script distracted me. I couldn't concentrate on the content, I kept seeing the colors. I have slowly adjusted to it enough that I can read other people's multi-hued scripts but I still keep it off in my own work. I have come to realize that people generally think that's nuts. Hilting a script was the first thing that ever convinced me I'm glad I'm not the only one who skewers scripts. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 8/24/2015 3:38 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Also performance: I do most of my scripting on a 3 GHz Haswell, and even with colorization off it struggles to keep up with even my own modest typing speed. So you notice a difference then? I still haven't worked with my humongous script in LC 7 so I haven't tested. But I don't see any time difference between 6 7 with my shorter scripts. I'll be curious to hear if Dr Hawkins sees any improvement. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 8:40 PM, RunRevPlanet f...@smpcsupport.com wrote: I care because when typing code, I don't want to have to think about what machine I am using and adjust my fingers to suits. Sorry I missed it, excluding LC, which IDE/Text Editor do you use on Linux, which one on Win and which one on OS X. Is it/they any good and is it/they any better than the LC Script Editor? ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 08/23/2015 02:51 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote: It's not possible for it to have gotten worse in LC 7, as the 7 IDE is identical to the 6 IDE except for branding. Thanks. I stand corrected then. Still trying to track down why this is such a CPU hog in LC7. I'll remove the extra checks I put in for the revSE... handlers. This is exactly what we *are* trying to get to with the 8 IDE. Good to hear. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 at 16:18, Dr. Hawkins doch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:51 AM, Ali Lloyd ali.ll...@livecode.com wrote: It's not possible for it to have gotten worse in LC 7, as the 7 IDE is identical to the 6 IDE except for branding It does, however, seem to be a huge leap back from 5. The delays in 5 were merely sluggish enough to be annoying, irc.  Now they're long enough to click a couple of times, look around, cuss the machine, click another couple of times, check to see if other applications or other lived windows work, and click again. My response was specifically in relation to what Mark said about hooks and frontscripts. On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 at 16:18, Dr. Hawkins doch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:51 AM, Ali Lloyd ali.ll...@livecode.com wrote: It's not possible for it to have gotten worse in LC 7, as the 7 IDE is identical to the 6 IDE except for branding It does, however, seem to be a huge leap back from 5. The delays in 5 were merely sluggish enough to be annoying, irc. Now they're long enough to click a couple of times, look around, cuss the machine, click another couple of times, check to see if other applications or other lived windows work, and click again. I am not exaggerating at frequently seeing a 2-3 second lag time, and (almost?) never under a second. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On August 23, 2015 11:04:46 AM CDT, Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net wrote: On 08/23/2015 08:50 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: Is script colonizing what happens when bugs creep into your scripts and settle there?? Don't you just hate it when that happens? Okay auto-correct, I've had it with your shirt. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On Aug 23, 2015, at 11:44 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: I am not exaggerating at frequently seeing a 2-3 second lag time, and (almost?) never under a second. Just out of curiosity, does it get better if you turn off script colonizing? Is script colonizing what happens when bugs creep into your scripts and settle there?? -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 08/23/2015 08:50 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: Is script colonizing what happens when bugs creep into your scripts and settle there?? Don't you just hate it when that happens? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On August 23, 2015 10:18:13 AM CDT, Dr. Hawkins doch...@gmail.com wrote: I am not exaggerating at frequently seeing a 2-3 second lag time, and (almost?) never under a second. Just out of curiosity, does it get better if you turn off script colonizing? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On August 23, 2015 1:51:35 AM CDT, Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder if someone from the mothership sat down and said right, we are going to make our Script Editor compatible with the top 3 text editors on each platform, how do we make that happen. if a lot of those hooks could be simplified and the process more 3rd party friendly? When the last script editor revision was released it included hooks so you could work in any external editor. I never used that so I'm not sure how it's done, but I believe the feature is still available. I know there are at least some remnants of it because there's a bug that sometimes warns me that the script has been revised in an outside source when it hasn't been. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On August 23, 2015 10:50:13 AM CDT, Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 23, 2015, at 11:44 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: I am not exaggerating at frequently seeing a 2-3 second lag time, and (almost?) never under a second. Just out of curiosity, does it get better if you turn off script colonizing? Is script colonizing what happens when bugs creep into your scripts and settle there?? Heh :-) It is a particularly common occurrence when typing on a mobile device. Do not code there. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
Mike Kerner said: effort should instead be spent on a BBEdit/TextWrangler plugin or some method for leveraging someone else's text editor. Malte Brill said: +1, just eclipse… ;-). The Dr. said: vi, of course . . . If you want to use that heretical emacs contraption, you'll get performance almost as bad as the current IDE. Scott said: the problem with this approach is that you need to find a single editor that runs on Linux, OS X Windows. Without using a single editor/IDE on all platforms, the developer experience and ease of use will rapidly diminish. I don't agree, I think you've got that wrong way around. I think a lot of the recent discussion has been about 1st impressions. If an investigating developer turns up who spends most of his time in BBEdit/Emacs/vi/Eclipse discovers he can use the same tool for LC, that has to be a good thing. Surely it would be advantageous for a developer to turn up with any tool of his choice and be able to use it so as to keep his comfort zone as large as possible and his learning curve as small as possible. All his favourite keyboard shortcuts would work, his screen layout would be similar, his syntax hilighting colour preferences unchanged. He can then focus on the idiosyncrasies of LC. I don't care if the LC Script Editor in Linux is exactly the same as the SE experience on OS X. Why should it matter? The SE experience in Linux should be a Linux experience, in Win it should be a Win experience, in OS X an OS X experience. Scott said: I have no idea how difficult that would be, but it sounds like the sledgehammer cracking the walnut. But isn't that the point. The feeling I get from comments is that people think the current Script Editor is a tack hammer and they are wanting something a bit more meaty. The nice thing about some of the tools mentioned is they can be used as a tack or ball pien when light and agile is needed, or they can be a mallet or sledge when really heavy work is required - they are specifically built for text manipulation tasks and they have gained their reputation because they are extremely good at it. Scott also said: I would be surprised if the amount of work making a plugin for another system would be less than just fixing what currently exists. Mark: g from the work I've done on glx2 I'd second that. The IDE has way too many hooks that need to be trapped And Mark would know, but again is this because the problem is being viewed wrong way around, is this the horse driving the kart? I wonder if someone from the mothership sat down and said right, we are going to make our Script Editor compatible with the top 3 text editors on each platform, how do we make that happen. if a lot of those hooks could be simplified and the process more 3rd party friendly? I recently posted about this Document viewer: https://kapeli.com/dash 150+ documents sets, integrating with 25+ Apps including TextWrangler, BBEdit, Eclipse and Emacs. What it doesn't tell you is that it recognises 80+ languages including Xojo, GEDCOM (family history), Lilypond (Music notation), the extremely cool sounding SuperCollider (audio) and Metaslang; which is so rare that even Google can't find it. Apparently all maintained by a single person. I admit I have no clue, but I imagine what we are talking about is passing a chunk of text from LC to another program. If one guy can figure out how to grab the text from 150+ doc sets, and then feed that into 25+ apps, and then syntax colour the text, I figure it shouldn't be too hard for a single person from the mothership to figure out how to ease the process of passing an LC script to a dozen different text editors and ensure those text editors are kept up to date with the LC syntax definitions. At the end of the day the LC Script Editor should be a glowing example of what LC can do. But by the same token, Xcode,along with all the other text centric programs that I use, allow me to choose a different text editor. The wheel was invented a long time ago. There are developers who's living is made from perfecting the wheel. There must be a reason why so many 'others' allow you to choose a different Text Editor in their application rather than being forced to use the built in one. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:51 AM, Ali Lloyd ali.ll...@livecode.com wrote: It's not possible for it to have gotten worse in LC 7, as the 7 IDE is identical to the 6 IDE except for branding It does, however, seem to be a huge leap back from 5. The delays in 5 were merely sluggish enough to be annoying, irc. Now they're long enough to click a couple of times, look around, cuss the machine, click another couple of times, check to see if other applications or other lived windows work, and click again. I am not exaggerating at frequently seeing a 2-3 second lag time, and (almost?) never under a second. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 2015-08-23 02:01, RunRevPlanet wrote: Then then there are bookmarks which are missing. The problem with the handler list pane of the current editor is that with a stack or card with many handlers there is a constant need to scroll up and down that if the two handlers I am working on have names widely separated in the alphabet. I want to see a filter search box added to the script editor's handler list for exactly that reason! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett peter.br...@livecode.com LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit! https://reddit.com/r/livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:35 AM Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net wrote: The IDE has way too many hooks that need to be trapped in a frontscript in order to use a different editor from the built-in one. And it's gotten worse, not better, with LC 7/8. It's not possible for it to have gotten worse in LC 7, as the 7 IDE is identical to the 6 IDE except for branding. I was rather hoping that the IDE would evolve to a plugin framework that would allow you to swap individual elements, but it's probably wishful thinking on my part. This is exactly what we *are* trying to get to with the 8 IDE. Architecturally a lot has changed too. Individual elements of the IDE now react to internal messages for which they have registered through a central IDE library. This will eventually make elements of the IDE much more pluggable, and also improve IDE performance. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 11:55 PM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com wrote: When the last script editor revision was released it included hooks so you could work in any external editor. Was that pre or post GLX2? More information would be welcome. I manually take scripts in and out of BBEdit and it would be nice if LC behaved like all the other apps I use that seamlessly integrate with BBEdit. I believe the feature is still available. I know there are at least some remnants of it because there's a bug that sometimes warns me that the script has been revised in an outside source when it hasn't been. Yes I've seen this warning, both logically - because I have messed with the script in BBEdit, and less obviously - when I don't believe I've revised the script. I'm casually trying to figure this out as to whether it is a bug or a feature I don't understand. Currently I have two theories; 1) whilst stepping through a script in debug mode you display a variable in it's own window (not just in the pane below the scrip you are stepping through) and manually amend the variable value then continue to step through the script but cancel it at some point prior to it's proper end point. 2) whilst stepping through a script in debug mode you manually adjust the parameters of a conditional breakpoint, continue to step through the script but cancel it at some point prior to it's proper end point. In both these cases LC becomes out of sync with what it thinks is the current state of the script compared to what it's saved state of the script is. As I said, I'm only casually tracking this as I certainly don't have a recipe to make it happen and because it happens so rarely I'm never in the frame of mind that 'Oh this could happen'. But when it does happen, at this stage I seem to have been doing the above. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
Is script colonizing what happens when bugs creep into your scripts and settle there?? Its nothing compared with a script colonoscopy. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 8/23/2015 8:57 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 11:55 PM, J. Landman Gayjac...@hyperactivesw.com wrote: When the last script editor revision was released it included hooks so you could work in any external editor. Was that pre or post GLX2? More information would be welcome. I manually take scripts in and out of BBEdit and it would be nice if LC behaved like all the other apps I use that seamlessly integrate with BBEdit. Sorry, I can't remember when it happened, but it was quite a while ago. I think there used to be a place in Prefs where you could indicate the app you wanted to use. There's no trace of that now in any of the versions I currently have installed, so it was some time prior to 6.x probably. There were some glitches that needed smoothing out and it looks like the idea was shelved. But maybe it wouldn't be too hard to put it back in. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:44 AM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com wrote: Just out of curiosity, does it get better if you turn off script colonizing? As others have already made the cheap (and funny) one, I'll pass. But I didn't know that this could be done. I'll try. Hilting a script was the first thing that ever convinced me there was value in color on a computer screen; until that, i preferred the sharper monochrome displays. And then friends started sending pictures of children . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
Mike Kerner said: effort should instead be spent on a BBEdit/TextWrangler plugin or some method for leveraging someone else's text editor. the problem with this approach is that you need to find a single editor that runs on Linux, OS X Windows. Without using a single editor/IDE on all platforms, the developer experience and ease of use will rapidly diminish. Malte Brill said: +1, just eclipse ;-). I have no idea how difficult that would be, but it sounds like the sledgehammer cracking the walnut. From the smiley I don't know whether to take that suggestions seriously? Still the IDE will have to come with a script editor that works out of the box. There is no need to throw away what exists, hitch LiveCode to another editor, when it only needs improving with a few more features and some care and attention to boost the ease of use. I would be surprised if the amount of work making a plugin for another system would be less than just fixing what currently exists. As a couple of concrete examples, that are mentioned elsewhere, but are repeated again in more detail, because this is a new thread. * And remember the reason these features exists in other tools is not because Scott likes them, but because programmers find them powerful and time saving. Suppose I am doing some work on a handler and want to change the name of all instances of a variable in it. (I am a big believer in using meaningful variable names to make code self documenting, but sometimes a good name is not apparent until after it has been used a few times in that function.) So I want to rename all instances without risking affecting other handlers in the same pane of the script editor. Currently I have to: 1. Have a button on the stack for the purpose of having an extra scratch pad script editor pane. 2. Copy and paste the handler to my ad hoc scratch pad editor pane and replacing all text (if any) currently there from my previous editing. 3. Do the Find and replace. 4. Copy and paste the text back from the scratch pane over the original script. I could avoid doing this and instead put the text cursor at the start of the handler and carefully repeatedly do a replace until I get to the end of the relevant code. But then close attention is needed and in a long handler it actually takes more clicks and keyboard presses than the method above and I have to concentrate harder and am more likely to make a mistake. All the while, every coding editor I have ever used (except LiveCode) has an option to restrict the Find and Replace to selected text. So much quicker and less error prone. Then then there are bookmarks which are missing. The problem with the handler list pane of the current editor is that with a stack or card with many handlers there is a constant need to scroll up and down that if the two handlers I am working on have names widely separated in the alphabet. Sure, I could move handlers around in my code so they are adjacent. But there there will then be two different handlers that my current work is concentrating on and I have to make sure that they are now adjacent so I can work efficiently. (Moving code to work around the short-comings of the IDE feels like madness.) Again, every coding editor I have ever used (except LiveCode) has an option to set and jump to bookmarks using keyboard shortcuts. Once a programmer is used to and expects such features (and remember this is basic stuff that has existed elsewhere for literally decades), working in LiveCode can quickly feel frustrating and inefficient. Programmers coming from other tools to try LiveCode notice these problems, and while the absence will not affect people starting their coding adventures in LiveCode, to capitalise on going Open Source you still need to attract (and keep!) more experienced coders too. So the sooner the editor experience is improved the better. -- Scott McDonald Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode www.runrevplanet.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 08/22/2015 07:41 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: I've often wished there was a way to go back where I came from, but it is a one-way trip for now. It's a feature in glx2, but I'm not sure how to patch it into the built-in editor. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On Saturday, August 22, 2015, RunRevPlanet f...@smpcsupport.com wrote: the problem with this approach is that you need to find a single editor that runs on Linux, OS X Windows. vi, of course . . . If you want to use that heretical emacs contraption, you'll get performance almost as bad as the current IDE. For crying out loud, I'd go for ed or similar if I could have response times In tenth of seconds rather than full seconds (there is not a circumstance in which it is reasonable that the IDE take a noticeable fraction of a second to respond, yet a good time is closer to 2s than 1s . . . And 3s is not rare) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 08/22/2015 06:01 PM, RunRevPlanet wrote: I would be surprised if the amount of work making a plugin for another system would be less than just fixing what currently exists. g from the work I've done on glx2 I'd second that. The IDE has way too many hooks that need to be trapped in a frontscript in order to use a different editor from the built-in one. And it's gotten worse, not better, with LC 7/8. I was rather hoping that the IDE would evolve to a plugin framework that would allow you to swap individual elements, but it's probably wishful thinking on my part. Time to look at rIDE again. All the while, every coding editor I have ever used (except LiveCode) has an option to restrict the Find and Replace to selected text. So much quicker and less error prone. Additionally, RubyMine has not only this, but some great refactoring features that let you, for instance, change the number or order of parameters to a handler and then update all instances of calls to that handler anywhere in any part of the project. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
I remember someone posted that they used red dot breakpoints as bookmarks. I have them in lcstackbrowser too. But they should be in the script editor. On Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 9:01 PM Dr. Hawkins doch...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, August 22, 2015, RunRevPlanet f...@smpcsupport.com wrote: the problem with this approach is that you need to find a single editor that runs on Linux, OS X Windows. vi, of course . . . If you want to use that heretical emacs contraption, you'll get performance almost as bad as the current IDE. For crying out loud, I'd go for ed or similar if I could have response times In tenth of seconds rather than full seconds (there is not a circumstance in which it is reasonable that the IDE take a noticeable fraction of a second to respond, yet a good time is closer to 2s than 1s . . . And 3s is not rare) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card)
On 8/22/2015 8:01 PM, RunRevPlanet wrote: As a couple of concrete examples, that are mentioned elsewhere, but are repeated again in more detail, because this is a new thread. I'll agree with all your suggestions, you've laid out a good list of things the editor should do and I've wished for some of those myself. But if anyone is interested in workarounds while we wait, here's what I do: restrict the Find and Replace to selected text. I have a custom backscript where I put stuff I use frequently for development. Or you could just do it in the message box: get the clipboardData replace oldvar with newVar in it set the clipboardData to it It might be faster than using a temp field. Then then there are bookmarks which are missing. The problem with the handler list pane of the current editor is that with a stack or card with many handlers there is a constant need to scroll up and down that if the two handlers I am working on have names widely separated in the alphabet. This is sort of half-implemented, it needs to be finished. You can right-click on any called handler name and choose Go to definition in the contextual menu. That pops you over to the second handler instantly, even if it's in a different script. The part that's missing is a way to jump back to where you started. If it opens a second script tab, no problem. You can even detach the second tab and have both scripts visible at the same time. If the second handler is in the same script and you only read it, the original one stays hilited in the left-hand list so you can just click there to go back. But if you click in the handler you just jumped to, the selection changes and you have to scroll to go back. I've often wished there was a way to go back where I came from, but it is a one-way trip for now. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
