Re: Mac Scrolling
Graham Heather Harrison wrote: I am amazed at how fantastically proactive the people on this list are. Is this normal? Not even the long periods of silence due to time differences which I expect being in Tasmania. Does anybody sleep? Yeah, it's pretty normal. And really it's us that should be thanking you. You could have thrown up your hands, but instead you stuck with it and helped find a pretty obscure bug. That's cool. Programmers never sleep, don't you know that? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Today a breakthrough! I had what I thought was a vanilla version of Snow Leopard on a second partition on my MBP. Installation stripped of all optionals (printers, fonts, etc.). A few Apple updates to 10.6.2, a couple of 3rd party apps, and standard changes to system prefs. When I loaded rev I had the same scrolling problems as before! Erased and loaded 10.6.0 from my MBP install disks, again stripping all optionals. Made no changes at all, and loaded rev. SINGLE CLICK IN CHANNEL WORKS! Jump to here still doesn't, but I think we are agreed that would need scripting. Hopefully I only have to explore the add-ons of the previous vanilla (if I can remember them all) to isolate the cause of the problem.___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Graham Heather Harrison c...@nosirrah.com wrote: Today a breakthrough! Excellent :-) Hopefully I only have to explore the add-ons of the previous vanilla (if I can remember them all) to isolate the cause of the problem. Apple Menu - About This Mac - More Info... Contents field on the left, last entry at the bottom - Software. Open it up and Applications and Extensions would be a good place to start. Anything non Apple should be treated with suspicion. Personally my money is on one of those applications that requires Access to Assistive Devices, actually I'm thinking two of them, each on their own is probably OK, but together there must be some sort of conflict. Again, good luck. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
It appears that the problem lies between rev and the trackpad of my 17 unibody MBP. Because I am so used to tap-click, I didn't think to use physical-click in rev. It turns out that single-physical-click works at all times, irrespective of the trackpad setting. The vanilla setting for trackpad is NO tap-click. When I started the new installation I used physical-click without realising the implications. If tap-click is set without dragging (probably an unusual setting) then no combination of taps works for scrolling in rev. If tap-click is set with dragging (my usual setting) then single-tap does nothing in rev, double-tap works like a single-click. Can someone test rev scrolling on a laptop with tap facilities. If it is not just my MBP then rev will need to look at this.___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re :Mac Scrolling
Graham wrote: It appears that the problem lies between rev and the trackpad of my 17 unibody MBP. Because I am so used to tap-click, I didn't think to use physical-click in rev. It turns out that single-physical-click works at all times, irrespective of the trackpad setting. The vanilla setting for trackpad is NO tap-click. When I started the new installation I used physical-click without realising the implications. If tap-click is set without dragging (probably an unusual setting) then no combination of taps works for scrolling in rev. If tap-click is set with dragging (my usual setting) then single-tap does nothing in rev, double-tap works like a single-click. Can someone test rev scrolling on a laptop with tap facilities. If it is not just my MBP then rev will need to look at this. Confirmed here: Finder and Firefox both respond to the first tap, but in Rev the first tap is lost in the scrollbars for both fields and groups, requiring either a second tap or a physical click instead. I've noticed mixed behavior with tap vs click in other apps too, though offhand I can't recall what they are. Do any of you have examples of taps and clicks being handled differently by other apps? What's especially weird here is that I had previously thought that the tap triggered the same event record as is generated for a click when that option is turned on. But since Rev and at least a few other apps treat some taps different than clicks, it would seem the event record or some other aspect of the communication between the OS and the app is indeed different for taps than clicks. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Graham Heather Harrison wrote: If tap-click is set without dragging (probably an unusual setting) then no combination of taps works for scrolling in rev. If tap-click is set with dragging (my usual setting) then single-tap does nothing in rev, double-tap works like a single-click. Wow, you nailed it! Good on you, now we know. This will be really helpful to know if it ever affects anyone else. I'm glad you were so persistent. It needs a bug report in the QCC. quality.runrev.com If you don't want to do that, maybe Richard will. He's pretty good at it. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Jacque wrote: Graham Heather Harrison wrote: If tap-click is set without dragging (probably an unusual setting) then no combination of taps works for scrolling in rev. If tap-click is set with dragging (my usual setting) then single-tap does nothing in rev, double-tap works like a single-click. Wow, you nailed it! Good on you, now we know. This will be really helpful to know if it ever affects anyone else. I'm glad you were so persistent. It needs a bug report in the QCC. quality.runrev.com If you don't want to do that, maybe Richard will. He's pretty good at it. :) I've reported it here: http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=8743 Thank you, Graham, for your excellent sleuthing on this. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Re :Mac Scrolling
It appears that the problem lies between rev and the trackpad of my 17 unibody MBP. Because I am so used to tap-click, I didn't think to use physical-click in rev. It turns out that single-physical-click works at all times, irrespective of the trackpad setting. The vanilla setting for trackpad is NO tap-click. When I started the new installation I used physical-click without realising the implications. If tap-click is set without dragging (probably an unusual setting) then no combination of taps works for scrolling in rev. If tap-click is set with dragging (my usual setting) then single-tap does nothing in rev, double-tap works like a single-click. Can someone test rev scrolling on a laptop with tap facilities. If it is not just my MBP then rev will need to look at this. Confirmed here: Finder and Firefox both respond to the first tap, but in Rev the first tap is lost in the scrollbars for both fields and groups, requiring either a second tap or a physical click instead. I've noticed mixed behavior with tap vs click in other apps too, though offhand I can't recall what they are. Do any of you have examples of taps and clicks being handled differently by other apps? What's especially weird here is that I had previously thought that the tap triggered the same event record as is generated for a click when that option is turned on. But since Rev and at least a few other apps treat some taps different than clicks, it would seem the event record or some other aspect of the communication between the OS and the app is indeed different for taps than clicks. I have an Apple Magic Mouse and I use the BetterTouchTool utility to allow me to tap instead of clicking. I always scroll by swiping, so I hadn't noticed the scroll bar problem, but I can see it now I test for it. I don't have any problem clicking a button with just a mouseUp handler, but if I have a mouseDown handler that does something, then a lot of the time it will miss the mouseUp message. I wonder is this what is happening in the scroll bars too? Cheers, Sarah P.S. I will add these thoughts to the bug report. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Richard Gaskin wrote: I've reported it here: http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=8743 Thank you for that Richard. I was a bit unsure how to go about it, so you have taken a load off my shoulders. Thank you everybody for your pertinent and insightful assistance. I am amazed at how fantastically proactive the people on this list are. Is this normal? Not even the long periods of silence due to time differences which I expect being in Tasmania. Does anybody sleep? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
I am amazed at how fantastically proactive the people on this list are. Is this normal? It's normal for this list :-) Not even the long periods of silence due to time differences which I expect being in Tasmania. Does anybody sleep? Only at the same time you do... I'm in Queensland. Cheers, Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Graham Heather Harrison c...@nosirrah.com wrote: I am amazed at how fantastically proactive the people on this list are. Is this normal? Not even the long periods of silence due to time differences which I expect being in Tasmania. Does anybody sleep? No, normally we do house calls unless you're Tasmanian; in which case it's by 24hr email bombardment ;-) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Graham Heather Harrison c...@nosirrah.com wrote: Thinking back to something Jacqueline said about the first click being swallowed, I have had a problem for a while (can't remember exactly when it started) with hot-keys. A number which are in the form Ctl(Mac)-X do not work on first invocation, but do once their associated function has been otherwise triggered. Is this in Rev or in a variety of Apps? My first thought was the possibility of some 'other' App that monitors key strokes might be interfering, these usually involve the need to 'Enable access for assistive devices' in the Universal Access System Preference Pane. Apps that come to mind are: QuickKeys CopyPasteX Mac Keylogger the later recording every keystroke you ever make and stealthily taking screen shots. Just in case you haven't installed it, you might consider this from the developers website: *Monitor your spouse: *Have you suspected that your spouse is cheating on you? Why he/she cleans the tracks on the computer? Now with the *keylogger for Mac* he/she can’t hide anymore. You haven't been misbehaving have you ;-)) If you've 'Enable access for assistive devices', you could try turning it Off to see if it makes a difference, although I have my suspicions that doing a Safe Boot would do just that. The other thought was a hot key conflict, more than one app assigning the same keys, but again, these would only be valid outside their own app if 'Enable access for assistive devices' was used and should only explain why certain keys wont work, not why the scroll bar in a single App plays up. I'm sorry, not much help. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
I'm a little confused as to what the complaints are with scrolling. Are these the issues? 1. First click in the scroll bar between the thumb and end of the scroll bar is ignored. 2. Double click in the same area doesn't do something (I'm not clear what that is) 3. When System Prefs are set to Jump to spot that's clicked it doesn't do it. My results: 1. It always behaves correctly for me. I'm not losing any first clicks anywhere. 2. I don't see any special behavior with double clicking this are on any Mac app. 3. Confirmed in both InfoWallet and the Rev IDE. It looks like this preference is ignored in Rev. I never noticed this before and no one has ever reported it. I think the default setting on the Mac (and certainly my setting) is Jump to the next page which works as expected. Interestingly, looking closely at the Smooth scrolling option I don't see any difference in Rev apps but even in Apple's apps the difference is so subtle that it is almost unnoticeable. Casually looking at any app with this set I don't think many users would be able to tell any difference at all. As far as I know, except for item 3 above, InfoWallet scrolls correctly everywhere. Please let me know what behavior you are seeing that didn't work. Bill Vlahos _ InfoWallet (http://www.infowallet.com) is about keeping your important life information with you, accessible, and secure. On Apr 22, 2010, at 7:04 PM, Graham Heather Harrison wrote: I may not have been as clear as intended in my last mail - suffice to say scrolling in InfoWallet didn't work. So I decided to try ssMacWindows to see how that went, and it doesn't at all. As far as I can see I have everything in the right places. Then decided to scrap rev and totally reload. Uninstall refused to do anything (see separate thread), so I don't know if the latest install is completely new or not. The problem still exists. Thinking back to something Jacqueline said about the first click being swallowed, I have had a problem for a while (can't remember exactly when it started) with hot-keys. A number which are in the form Ctl(Mac)-X do not work on first invocation, but do once their associated function has been otherwise triggered.___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Kay C Lan (Kay? Lan?) (I am not quoting at the moment because I was overwhelmed by all the messages from other threads.) The strange hot-key behaviour is system wide, from finder through any app with Services. As far as I can tell it is only those I have set up using Keyboard Shortcuts, or Keyboard Maestro (which all start with Ctl). I don't often use special hot-keys set by third party apps as there are many conflicts there. I turned off Enable Assistive Devices, which also has made no difference. Glad of that as I really want back the two I disabled (Keyboard Maestro, KeyCue), as well as all those that gave me plaintive messages when I rebooted. (I knew there were others, but was surprised by how many.) As you say, all of them were disabled in Safe Boot anyway. Regarding spouse, we both have our own computer, and she relies on me for all maintenance, etc. Her abilities lie in other directions. On the other hand the Wicked Wenzles of the West may be targeting me again.I thought I had driven them off forever with the garlic poultice on my hard drive, and come to think of my foil hat is missing... ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Bill 1) 2) I have to double-click in the channel (between thumb and end) to get the action which should be precipitated by one click. The ignoring of the first click is a proposition raised by Jacqueline. 3) I have Jump to here and smooth scrolling set, and it always jumps a set distance (about 1/8 as shown in the Properties Inspector). This action is certainly not subtle when there is a long list and it jumps a small way when I (double) click at the bottom. This happens in every rev application including the Application Browser and Script Editing. It happens in InfoWallet even though that brings its own rev machine. Capiche?___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
On 23/04/2010 11:28, Graham Heather Harrison wrote: On the other hand the Wicked Wenzles of the West may be targeting me again.I thought I had driven them off forever with the garlic poultice on my hard drive, and come to think of my foil hat is missing... I tried that for a while but the smell of hot garlic just got too much . . . Try pushing a cat into your DVD drive; my cat keeps trying to push herself into mine - as a result I have no problems with Wicked Wenzles; only cat hair! I have at last convinced her that the cat-loo is the place to poo, and not behind the computers. A few years ago, when I lived in the UAE, I came back from my summer holiday and wondered why my beige G3 was smelling funny; on opening it up I found it had a full-blown termite colony living inside it. I chucked the whole thing (less the Hard drive which is now number 4 drive in my G4 windtunnel) out next to a bush; and for all I know, the termites are still there: good luck to them - it allowed me to convince my family that I should buy a jazzier machine . . . :) I told a friend about this and he said that was, maybe, why his PC was smelling; we opened it up and found that he had cockroaches (and so did his computer). Or, put it another way: Apple computers Stink Different! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Bill Vlahos bvla...@mac.com wrote: I'm a little confused as to what the complaints are with scrolling. Bill, please be aware that this has NOTHING to do with InfoWallet! InfoWallet was just used as a guinea pig toellimate Graham's installation of Rev as a cause of his GUI weirdness. The fact that the problem occurs also with InfoWallet suggests it's something installed/set on his Mac that is incompatible with the way the Rev engine captures events. The fact that Graham is also experience some trouble with a few Hot Keys is also a clue that it's something perculiar to his system and not a bug with Rev and certainly NOTHING to do with InfoWallet. InforWallet was picked to do a simple test because it is built with Rev and has scroll bars. Sorry for the confusion. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Graham Heather Harrison c...@nosirrah.com wrote: I turned off Enable Assistive Devices, which also has made no difference. How disappointing. As you say, all of them were disabled in Safe Boot anyway. Yes, I knew I was grasping at straws once you stated you were still experiencing the problems in Safe Boot. I'm afraid I've reached the limit of straw to grasp. :-( Regarding spouse, we both have our own computer, and she relies on me for all maintenance, etc. Her abilities lie in other directions. Thankfully, all is well with your wife ;-) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
No problem. I'm glad InfoWallet was a useable test. Bill Vlahos _ InfoWallet (http://www.infowallet.com) is about keeping your important life information with you, accessible, and secure. On Apr 23, 2010, at 3:01 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Bill Vlahos bvla...@mac.com wrote: I'm a little confused as to what the complaints are with scrolling. Bill, please be aware that this has NOTHING to do with InfoWallet! InfoWallet was just used as a guinea pig toellimate Graham's installation of Rev as a cause of his GUI weirdness. The fact that the problem occurs also with InfoWallet suggests it's something installed/set on his Mac that is incompatible with the way the Rev engine captures events. The fact that Graham is also experience some trouble with a few Hot Keys is also a clue that it's something perculiar to his system and not a bug with Rev and certainly NOTHING to do with InfoWallet. InforWallet was picked to do a simple test because it is built with Rev and has scroll bars. Sorry for the confusion. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 10:52 AM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.comwrote: Am I really conversing with a slug? (Slime sliiime sliimmme Zryip!) As far as we know, yes. At least, he's never told us any different. He's a very friendly slug in any case, I'd definitely trust him in my strawberry patch. Interesting, I've always thought of him as an imperial unit of mass, but hey, I figured anyone who uses sliie must be a Heather not a Graham ;-) But, back to topic. Have you tried downloading a Rev built app and running that. Thereby eliminating your installation of Rev as the culprit. Try a demo download of InfoWallet: http://www.infowallet.com/ (picked only because the screen shots indicate there are scroll bars) With nothing else running on your system, if these scroll bars work correctly then it would tend to indicate that a clean Rev Engine behaves properly and something in your installation of Rev is wrong. If it doesn't work, then something installed on your Mac, probably Rev related, must be incompatible. I say that because if it weren't the case Bill Vlahos would have had thousands of complaints that his program has a non-standard GUI. HTH PS Sorry Bill if I underestimated the number of Mac users ;-) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
On 22/04/2010, at 5:01 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: but hey, I figured anyone who uses sliie must be a Heather not a Graham ;-) Out by one m and 180º. Try a demo download of InfoWallet: http://www.infowallet.com/ If it doesn't work, then something installed on your Mac, probably Rev related, must be incompatible. Thanks. That has defined the area of the problem; looking for a black rock in a coal cellar without a light - but at least I know I'm in the right cellar.___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
2010/4/22 J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com: The best way to check pending messages is in the message box (I think that's probably what our slug meant.) The fifth icon from the left is the pending message queue. Normally you won't see anything there unless you're viewing the UI messages. It's normal to see those. If you do see any pending messages that are not in the UI, see if you can copy and paste them here. Yes I thought to the message box when I wrote my few lines, thanks to have corrected me ;) Message box and message watcher give good clues how events are trapped and performs in Runrev. 2010/4/22 Graham Heather Harrison c...@nosirrah.com: Am I really conversing with a slug? (Slime sliiime sliimmme Zryip!) Yes, yes ;) What a privilege no? I'm a kind of ambassador, hahaha 8-) 2010/4/22 J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com: As far as we know, yes. At least, he's never told us any different. He's a very friendly slug in any case, I'd definitely trust him in my strawberry patch. Thanks Jacque to welcome me in your garden ;) Of course I'm a friendly slug but take some precaution like : - don't give me salad after midnight - don't throw me water - and don't approach me with a shovel 8-) -- -Zryip TheSlug- wish you the best! 8) http://www.aslugontheroad.co.cc ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Graham Heather Harrison c...@nosirrah.com wrote: Thanks. That has defined the area of the problem; looking for a black rock in a coal cellar without a light - but at least I know I'm in the right cellar.___ So when you ran InfoWallet did you need to double click or not? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
I may not have been as clear as intended in my last mail - suffice to say scrolling in InfoWallet didn't work. So I decided to try ssMacWindows to see how that went, and it doesn't at all. As far as I can see I have everything in the right places. Then decided to scrap rev and totally reload. Uninstall refused to do anything (see separate thread), so I don't know if the latest install is completely new or not. The problem still exists. Thinking back to something Jacqueline said about the first click being swallowed, I have had a problem for a while (can't remember exactly when it started) with hot-keys. A number which are in the form Ctl(Mac)-X do not work on first invocation, but do once their associated function has been otherwise triggered.___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Graham Heather Harrison wrote: I may not have been as clear as intended in my last mail - suffice to say scrolling in InfoWallet didn't work. So I decided to try ssMacWindows to see how that went, and it doesn't at all. As far as I can see I have everything in the right places. Then decided to scrap rev and totally reload. Uninstall refused to do anything (see separate thread), so I don't know if the latest install is completely new or not. The problem still exists. On a Mac, uninstall doesn't really do much. Just drag the Rev app into the trash. Uninstall is for Windows installations mostly. But it sounds like you don't have to reinstall, given the hot keys thing you mention. Thinking back to something Jacqueline said about the first click being swallowed, I have had a problem for a while (can't remember exactly when it started) with hot-keys. A number which are in the form Ctl(Mac)-X do not work on first invocation, but do once their associated function has been otherwise triggered. That does sound related. What happens if you temporarily turn off hot keys? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
I totally removed any third party apps directly acting on hot-keys, and restarted. No change to rev. Again did a Safe Boot just to make sure, and still no change to rev. While in Safe Boot I tried one of the problematic hot-keys (controlled directly from Services, not a third party app) and it still had the don't work first time behaviour. I think I had better pursue this on the Mac front. I was able to live with it before, but not if it is going to affect rev, as I will never know if behaviour is abnormal or not.___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Graham Heather Harrison wrote: I totally removed any third party apps directly acting on hot-keys, and restarted. No change to rev. Again did a Safe Boot just to make sure, and still no change to rev. While in Safe Boot I tried one of the problematic hot-keys (controlled directly from Services, not a third party app) and it still had the don't work first time behaviour. I think I had better pursue this on the Mac front. I was able to live with it before, but not if it is going to affect rev, as I will never know if behaviour is abnormal or not. We'll tell you. :) You could try turning off all the system prefs hotkeys. If you do nail it down, let us know because it might help someone else someday. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
You may prefer the interface and features you get here - http://groups.google.co.uk/group/runrev?lnk=srg On 21 Apr 2010, at 01:19, Graham Heather Harrison c...@nosirrah.com wrote: 1. Is there a way to search the archives? Here's the url I use: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.ide.revolution.user -- Nicolas Cueto Thank you. Looks like it will be a great help. Graham ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
You may prefer the interface and features you get here - http://groups.google.co.uk/group/runrev?lnk=srg Looks good too. Thanks ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Graham Heather Harrison wrote: Jacqueline, Let's go back to the start, as we seem to diverging wildly at the moment. Yes, double arrows, at the bottom, can be set in Sys Prefs/Appearance. Double arrows at top AND bottom cannot. It can be set by the programs I mentioned. I have verified that this setting is not the cause of the double-click in the channel problem. Okay. But what version of OS X are you using? That may matter. You said that the go to here would probably require scripting because the default uses the pageinc property. I was enquiring as to how to go about this scripting. Perhaps I need to spend more time looking up property settings. Maybe, but given the problem, I don't think changing property settings will help. Rev's IDE is already set up to behave as you expect. The default behavior of a scrollbar's property settings is to do what the OS normally does. The only non-standard behaviour left is the double-click in the channel problem. I am not sure how to determine if that is due to my settings - is there a list of known previous incompatibilities with rev? And if I can't find anything, are you saying that it would be very difficult to impose single-click over the abnormal double-click? There have been no reports of abnormal scrollbar behavior in the ten years I've been using Rev. They work okay for me and as far as I know, they work okay for others too. The bug database has no reports about it, and no one on the list has mentioned it (and this list has most of the hard-core pros who date back for a very long time.) So yes, it would be hard for you to script the desired behavior, because what you want to do is the default behavior that should just happen. One thing you can try is to reboot your system with the shift key held down, which will eliminate all third-party add-ons. If that fixes the problem it may give you an idea of what may be interfering. On the other hand, anything you've changed with Tinkertool is permanently written to the system files, so those changes would persist. Alternately (or maybe even better): can you find another Mac to test on? One that hasn't been altered with Tinkertool or some other product? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Jacqueline I get the same results in Safe Boot mode I loaded rev under OS X 10.6.2, now running 10.6.3. Send me another Mac which can run Snow Leopard and I'll try that too. P.S. I don't use Tinkertool (quoted as example); I use MacPilot and only on parameters which can be easily reset.___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Graham Heather Harrison wrote: Jacqueline I get the same results in Safe Boot mode I loaded rev under OS X 10.6.2, now running 10.6.3. Send me another Mac which can run Snow Leopard and I'll try that too. P.S. I don't use Tinkertool (quoted as example); I use MacPilot and only on parameters which can be easily reset. I guess I don't know what to suggest then. I'm running Rev on both Leopard and Snow Leopard (desktop and laptop machines) without any scrollbar issues. I haven't heard of anyone else having the problem either so it's hard to know what might be the problem. I suppose you could try re-downloading and reinstalling Rev, though that seems to be a workable solution mostly for Windows users. One other thing to check would be to do a get info on the rev app itself, open the plug-ins pane, and make sure all the plugins are checked. Rev uses those to determine correct OS behavior. They are all checked by default when shipped though. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
2010/4/21 Graham Heather Harrison c...@nosirrah.com: Jacqueline I get the same results in Safe Boot mode I loaded rev under OS X 10.6.2, now running 10.6.3. Send me another Mac which can run Snow Leopard and I'll try that too. P.S. I don't use Tinkertool (quoted as example); I use MacPilot and only on parameters which can be easily reset. 1) Open your message watcher (Menu Development - Message watcher) 2) Checked if there is no pending message, and no front script launched. If needed remove them. 3) Create a new stack 4) Drop a Scrolling field on it 5) Copy or type text in your field (10 or 15 lines to have a scroll bar) 6) In the field property, ask for vertical scrollbar Now give a try to the scrollbar. What happens? -- -Zryip TheSlug- wish you the best! 8) http://www.aslugontheroad.co.cc ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
On 22/04/2010, at 8:41 AM, zryip theSlug wrote: 1) Open your message watcher (Menu Development - Message watcher) 2) Checked if there is no pending message, and no front script launched. If needed remove them. Nothing found. I assume the font script launch would have been in message watcher. If not I know not where to look. 3) Create a new stack 4) Drop a Scrolling field on it 5) Copy or type text in your field (10 or 15 lines to have a scroll bar) 6) In the field property, ask for vertical scrollbar By the time I got to Property Inspector it already had Vertical Scrollbar ticked. Now give a try to the scrollbar. What happens? Exactly the same as every other test case I have set up: need double-click in channel to move bar, does not recognise Go To Here. Am I really conversing with a slug? (Slime sliiime sliimmme Zryip!) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
On 22/04/2010, at 7:37 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: One other thing to check would be to do a get info on the rev app itself, open the plug-ins pane, and make sure all the plugins are checked. Rev uses those to determine correct OS behavior. They are all checked by default when shipped though. I assume you mean the Mac Get Info, and I can see no plug-ins pane there. In rev Development/Plugins/Plugin Settings there are a number of plugins selected for use, but does that mean they are available?___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Graham Heather Harrison wrote: On 22/04/2010, at 8:41 AM, zryip theSlug wrote: 1) Open your message watcher (Menu Development - Message watcher) 2) Checked if there is no pending message, and no front script launched. If needed remove them. Nothing found. I assume the font script launch would have been in message watcher. If not I know not where to look. The best way to check pending messages is in the message box (I think that's probably what our slug meant.) The fifth icon from the left is the pending message queue. Normally you won't see anything there unless you're viewing the UI messages. It's normal to see those. If you do see any pending messages that are not in the UI, see if you can copy and paste them here. More likely to interfere would be a frontscript. You can see if any of those are running by checking the next icon over in the message box (6th from the left.) If you don't check the show revolution ui checkbox, you shouldn't see any frontscripts. If you do, tell us what they are. Some may be from plugins that are causing interference. 3) Create a new stack 4) Drop a Scrolling field on it 5) Copy or type text in your field (10 or 15 lines to have a scroll bar) 6) In the field property, ask for vertical scrollbar By the time I got to Property Inspector it already had Vertical Scrollbar ticked. That's the only real distinction between a scrolling field and a regular field; Rev just provides a quick tool for creating one. So that property will always be set if you drag a scrolling field from the tools palette. But here's another test. After you've created a scrolling field and filled it with some text, go to the Development menu and choose Suspend Development Tools. This removes the IDE entirely, leaving only the raw engine and your own scripts (but don't test with any scripts, keep your test stack blank.) If the problem persists, then something else is swallowing your first click. And since you're pretty close to the engine when the dev tools are suspended, it could be something outside Rev doing it (third-party mouse driver? Who knows.) Am I really conversing with a slug? (Slime sliiime sliimmme Zryip!) As far as we know, yes. At least, he's never told us any different. He's a very friendly slug in any case, I'd definitely trust him in my strawberry patch. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Graham Heather Harrison wrote: On 22/04/2010, at 7:37 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: One other thing to check would be to do a get info on the rev app itself, open the plug-ins pane, and make sure all the plugins are checked. Rev uses those to determine correct OS behavior. They are all checked by default when shipped though. I assume you mean the Mac Get Info, and I can see no plug-ins pane there. In rev Development/Plugins/Plugin Settings there are a number of plugins selected for use, but does that mean they are available? Right, the Finder's Get Info. Select the Rev app itself in Finder, and choose Get Info from the Finder's File menu (or right-click on it and use the contextual menu.) The Get Info window has several panes in it, each with an expandable arrow: Spotlight General More info Name Extension Preview Languages Plug-ins -- this one Sharing Permissions Expand the Plug-ins arrow to see the bundle plugins that ship with Rev. There should be four, one for image support and three each for different versions of OS X. All four should be enabled. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
On 22/04/2010, at 12:57 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: Spotlight General More info Name Extension Preview Languages Plug-ins -- this one Sharing Permissions I have never even seen the two in red. Haven't been able to find anything in a quick look at Help, so I assume that they only appear if there is anything to report. This sort of points to the plug-ins being missing. Will download again. Is there anything else I should do?___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Graham Heather Harrison wrote: On 22/04/2010, at 12:57 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: Spotlight General More info Name Extension Preview Languages Plug-ins -- this one Sharing Permissions I have never even seen the two in red. Haven't been able to find anything in a quick look at Help, so I assume that they only appear if there is anything to report. This sort of points to the plug-ins being missing. Will download again. Is there anything else I should do?___ Sorry, I've mislead you. The list was taken from a Leopard Get Info. I just checked on Snow Leopard and they aren't there in that OS, so I guess you can't use this trick. If you look inside the bundle contents you will find the plugins, but I assume they're all enabled by default. I was grasping at straws, at any rate. I'll confess I have no idea what could be eliminating the first click you do on a scrollbar, but that appears to be what's happening. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Mac Scrolling
This is my first time in so apologies if I break old ground or taboos. 1. Is there a way to search the archives? 2. On Mac scrolling: With scroll bars in Mac OS, the rev implementation is to double-click in the channel (rather than Mac standard of single-click). I have seen a full custom implementation which uses single-click, but I don't want to go that far for every scrollbar. Also the scroll only advances a fixed distance, even though my system is set to Go to here. This is intriguing because that is an easily set parameter in Mac OS. Rev happily implements two arrows at either end, which on the Mac has to be reached by subterfuge. Is there a way that these Mac discrepancies can be easily overridden? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
1. Is there a way to search the archives? Here's the url I use: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.ide.revolution.user -- Nicolas Cueto ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Graham Heather Harrison wrote: With scroll bars in Mac OS, the rev implementation is to double-click in the channel (rather than Mac standard of single-click). I have seen a full custom implementation which uses single-click, but I don't want to go that far for every scrollbar. If you need to double-click then I think there must be a script interfering. Rev uses standard click behaviors by default. Also the scroll only advances a fixed distance, even though my system is set to Go to here. This is intriguing because that is an easily set parameter in Mac OS. Rev happily implements two arrows at either end, which on the Mac has to be reached by subterfuge. You may have to script the go to here part, since scrollbars by default use the pageinc property to determine how far to scroll. They should use the system setting for arrows though, which in my case is to show double arrows at the bottom. Not sure what you mean by two arrows at either end. If you have an example of misbehaving scrollbars, we can take a look and maybe figure out why you're getting non-standard behaviors. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Hi Jacqueline, If you need to double-click then I think there must be a script interfering. Rev uses standard click behaviors by default. I am forced to use double-click in the channel on every scrollable rev screen, including Application Browser and Script Editing. They should use the system setting for arrows though, which in my case is to show double arrows at the bottom. Not sure what you mean by two arrows at either end. By two arrows I mean double arrows. This is a system setting which cannot be reached through normal preferences. Can be set by TinkerTool, MacPilot, etc. As I said, rev recognises this correctly. You may have to script the go to here part, since scrollbars by default use the pageinc property to determine how far to scroll. This is where I need help, as a rev newbie. WhatI want to do is somehow bypass/overwrite the system values, not redefine scrolling from the top down. So, for example, how do I find the scrolling system values? OS X 10.6.2/3___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
1. Is there a way to search the archives? Here's the url I use: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.ide.revolution.user -- Nicolas Cueto Thank you. Looks like it will be a great help. Graham ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Graham Heather Harrison wrote: Hi Jacqueline, If you need to double-click then I think there must be a script interfering. Rev uses standard click behaviors by default. I am forced to use double-click in the channel on every scrollable rev screen, including Application Browser and Script Editing. Definitely non-standard, I've never seen this in any version of Rev. Do you have a custom mouse driver? System settings? Extensions? Something about your setup is different. They should use the system setting for arrows though, which in my case is to show double arrows at the bottom. Not sure what you mean by two arrows at either end. By two arrows I mean double arrows. This is a system setting which cannot be reached through normal preferences. Can be set by TinkerTool, MacPilot, etc. As I said, rev recognises this correctly. You can set this in System Preferences/Appearance. Which version os OS X are you using? If it's an older version (one that didn't have that preference option,) and you've used Tinkertool on it, I wonder if that makes a difference. In fact, if it's too old, I'm not sure Rev will support it fully. You may have to script the go to here part, since scrollbars by default use the pageinc property to determine how far to scroll. This is where I need help, as a rev newbie. WhatI want to do is somehow bypass/overwrite the system values, not redefine scrolling from the top down. So, for example, how do I find the scrolling system values? Well, each field or group property inspector has the settings, and if you're using an independent scrollbar (unattached to a field or group) then the scrolbar object itself has those settings in its property inspector. You'd need to change the settings on every scrolling object, but if you're seeing the behavior in the IDE, the settings aren't the problem. The IDE is already written to act as you'd expect. In fact, I can't think of any property settings that would allow you to restore normalcy, because the default behavior is normal, and it would take some fancy scripting to override it so that it responded only to double-clicks. I'm pretty sure if your experience was common, the bug database would be full of reports. So we need to figure out what's different with your OS. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Mac Scrolling
Jacqueline, Let's go back to the start, as we seem to diverging wildly at the moment. Yes, double arrows, at the bottom, can be set in Sys Prefs/Appearance. Double arrows at top AND bottom cannot. It can be set by the programs I mentioned. I have verified that this setting is not the cause of the double-click in the channel problem. You said that the go to here would probably require scripting because the default uses the pageinc property. I was enquiring as to how to go about this scripting. Perhaps I need to spend more time looking up property settings. The only non-standard behaviour left is the double-click in the channel problem. I am not sure how to determine if that is due to my settings - is there a list of known previous incompatibilities with rev? And if I can't find anything, are you saying that it would be very difficult to impose single-click over the abnormal double-click? Graham ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
