Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
Hi Ken, Video... Or maybe I don't understand what you mean?? Judy But what will you do about all the hand movements? ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
on 2/13/04 12:57 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:07:51 -0800 (PST) From: Judy Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?] Hi Ken, Video... Or maybe I don't understand what you mean?? Probably the other way round ;-) You said: For kids, make it into a game (hence, my Mr. Potatohead idea -- present body parts to them -- the signs, that is ...Mr Potatohead doesn't have moveable hands/fingers AFAIK, so how can you have it present a sign? ...is what I meant... Ken N. ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
Ahhh... No. I've done a beta of it in Director (ugh. can't begin to tell you how painful that was apparently because of a conflict between Director and a M$ drag-n-drop thingy that resulted in repeated crashes that ultimately resulted in my needing to emergency hose my HD a record FOUR TIMES). On one side of the screen is a retro-looking TV graphic into which there is a play button which plays the video of the sign for some body part, which is displayed to the right. The video is of an actual human performing the sign. This goes on for three to five body parts, then we have the 'quiz': Same setup: TV to the left with play button for playing a video of a sign, but this time to the right are *three* possible body parts; the user clicks hopefully on the correct one, which transports them to the place where they get to choose between hairy ears, pointed ears or bejeweled ears for Mr/Ms Spudz... I think it's doable... I just need to have less on my plate. Of course, feedback is always welcomed! Judy On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Ken Norris wrote: Probably the other way round ;-) You said: For kids, make it into a game (hence, my Mr. Potatohead idea -- present body parts to them -- the signs, that is ...Mr Potatohead doesn't have moveable hands/fingers AFAIK, so how can you have it present a sign? ...is what I meant... ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
On Feb 11, 2004, at 11:41 PM, Ken Norris wrote: I never knew that. I've been wanting to learn at least AMSLAN for a long time, but there are no teachers or solid learning sources on this island, no courses available. Ken- sorry I shouldn't judge your circumstances. If you need a computer tutor you need a computer tutor! -- Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
Alex Rice wrote: On Feb 12, 2004, at 12:27 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Because unless it's bundled it will still need to be downloaded, and if one needs to download and install something it could just as well provide multiple window, menus, and other options not possible in a browser. Look at the number of plugins in '98, and how few are left today. Bundling is the advantage of plugins. Without bundling, an engine's an engine It's not such a black and white issue. Nor is it theoretical. SuperCard had a plugin. Aside from some novelty use it was never popular even at sites with a heavy SC install. Like most companies that have ever made a plugin, they don't bother anymore. You are talking about average-joe-consumer out there with Windows 98, and generalizing that to say there is no advantage to browser plugins, period. I disagree. You have the sum of your experience which leads to your opinions, I have mine. Disagreement from time to time is a healthy indicator of active minds. Look at IT departments that ghost their systems for rollouts. No downloading of plugins required. In fact downloading may not be allowed. In fact- public www access may not even be allowed! Corporations are strange places. Indeed, especially those whose IT department can ghost a browser installation yet not be able to include a helper app with it. ;) I never said a plugin was completely useless. I only said that it offers no significant advantage over what can be done right now. Even if a plugin could somehow do everything a helper app can, the helper app still has one advantage to solving real-world problems today: it exists. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
Jacque- Wednesday, February 11, 2004, 6:07:01 PM, you wrote: JLG There is really no legitimate sign for that. I chose to use a gradually JLG drooping index finger. The entire audience, both hearing and deaf, never I've always found one of the joys of ASL to be that it's not a literally verbatim translation. For example, the sign for coffee conveys a whole context of nuances that no single word in any written or spoken language could. That drooping index finger was a brilliant touch... er... well, there's no way out of that pun, is there? -- -Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
Thomas McGrath III wrote: back in the day I used the SuperCard plugin in our corporate structure to role out quick easy stacks to departments that just wanted to view an update on info to our software (GUI and other info) in a simple way from a web browser. All they had to do was go to the company site and check it out. But that meant the plugin was custom pre-installed. Pre-installing a helper app could be done just as simply. And since SC had no built-in Internet connectivity it's not like you had an alternative, the plugin was the only way to deliver Internet-connected applets. With a Rev-based helper app you have all the Internet connectivity you'd get in a browser and more, and your choice of having greater security than a browser by using Rev's secureMode, or unbridled power with it off. We found it very useful. Asking them to download a separate file was more than they wanted to do and more than I was allowed to ask of a Vice President. No need for that: your standalone helper app can download stacks on the fly, just as a plugin would and as RevNet does now. Stack files are stack files, the VM is the VM. You need the VM pre-installed to run applets (stack files), so in practical terms it matters little whether you have the VM in a browser's Plugins folder or outside of that folder as a standalone. Also, a big difference is that downloading an app to a hard disk is different than downloading a temp file to a browser. I.E. temp files can be deleted by the browser but another scheme is needed to delete an app from a HD. This is important for propriatary stacks that we don't want staying on a users computer. (Yes, I know we can disable a stack after use etc) This is where Rev has an advantage over SC: in SC you must have a physical project file to run it, whether in a standalone or the (now defunct) plugin. But Rev can run stacks that exist just in memory, true download-n-go, as RevNet does. Again, I'm not saying a browser plugin is completely useless. I'm merely saying that it offers no significant real-world advantage you can't capitalize on right now with the tools in hand today. That's all I'm trying to accomplish here: when you identify a need you can go two ways to solve it, finding a way to satisfy that need today or defining the problem in terms that require things beyond your control and which may never actually come to pass. Choosing the latter is less likely to get results if doing the former can get the job done. When a customer requests a feature it's too easy to fall into reactive mode, where you run off and go implement the feature without asking how it will be used, what problem it will solve. That's the role of task analysis, sometimes critical for arriving at optimal solutions. Taking the what of a customer request without asking for the why puts one at risk of rushing feature afer feature to market, driving up development costs without ever actually nailing the task. If you have a customer asking for a plugin, ask them what they want to accomplish. I'll wager that after a good task analysis is done you can satisfy their needs and then some right now, without needing to put everything on hold waiting for someone else to give you a more limited implementation of the same capabilities. Should Rev decide to make a plugin down the road, your experience in building working systems outside of the browser will empower you to make experienced recommendations on how it gets done. And in the meantime you have clients with solved problems. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
And universities... IT departments in universities can be just as strange. My professor, a mac user for a particular program (Accordance), instead of being permitted to bring in his own computer at his own expense was given a very very very bottom of the barrel PC gray-box and some Mac emulation software. Now which do you think is going to be more of a challenge to support? But yes, they image everything as well and if education is a market for RunRev on the backend, this would work well enough there too. Maybe we should just get the engine preloaded, or perhaps I don't see why that is any more dangerous than any other engine being installed (.NET, java, etc... they're (in some sense) all very similar)) I did see some information about homestacks being infiltrated by a HyperCard virus, but that seems unlikely to be anymore dangerous than, for example, MS Office or Windows in general. Yours, Chris On Feb 12, 2004, at 1:37 AM, Alex Rice wrote: On Feb 12, 2004, at 12:27 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Because unless it's bundled it will still need to be downloaded, and if one needs to download and install something it could just as well provide multiple window, menus, and other options not possible in a browser. Look at the number of plugins in '98, and how few are left today. Bundling is the advantage of plugins. Without bundling, an engine's an engine It's not such a black and white issue. You are talking about average-joe-consumer out there with Windows 98, and generalizing that to say there is no advantage to browser plugins, period. I disagree. Look at IT departments that ghost their systems for rollouts. No downloading of plugins required. In fact downloading may not be allowed. In fact- public www access may not even be allowed! Corporations are strange places. -- Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
Christopher Mitchell wrote: Maybe we should just get the engine preloaded, or perhaps I don't see why that is any more dangerous than any other engine being installed (.NET, java, etc... they're (in some sense) all very similar)) Precisely. And with the current implementation of the secureMode property it's at least as safe: no file I/O, no AppleScript, no shell, no registry access, etc. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
Funny you should mention this... This is a project on my way-back burner, to teach some simple ASL to deaf kids using a Mr. Potatohead metaphor... Judy On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Ken Norris wrote: -- I never knew that. I've been wanting to learn at least AMSLAN for a long time, but there are no teachers or solid learning sources on this island, no courses available. Did you ever write a tutorial for learning it on the computer? ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
On 2/12/04 12:41 AM, Ken Norris wrote: I never knew that. I've been wanting to learn at least AMSLAN for a long time, but there are no teachers or solid learning sources on this island, no courses available. Did you ever write a tutorial for learning it on the computer? No. I can't imagine the amount of work that would take. You can't exactly write it down; it would all have to be videos. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
ummm there is no such thing as 'Mac Emulation Software' - Apple would never license the firmware...and if I had such Draconian requirements for a class, I'd change schools... And universities... IT departments in universities can be just as strange. My professor, a mac user for a particular program (Accordance), instead of being permitted to bring in his own computer at his own expense was given a very very very bottom of the barrel PC gray-box and some Mac emulation software. ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
Sure there is! http://www.maconlinux.org/ Among others. ummm there is no such thing as 'Mac Emulation Software' - Apple would never license the firmware...and if I had such Draconian requirements for a class, I'd change schools... ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
But it's under Linux/PPC! If I had a Power PC processor, why bother, I'd just run Mac OS. Sure there is! http://www.maconlinux.org/ Among others. ummm there is no such thing as 'Mac Emulation Software' - Apple would never license the firmware...and if I had such Draconian requirements for a class, I'd change schools... ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
And there is also http://www.softmac2000.com/ If you already own the Mac hardware, it is perfectly legal to emulate your Mac on another machine (although not running simultaneously). We had a 68040 Mac Quadra that died years ago, so we used its ROM in an emulator. When you are porting HyperCard stacks to Revolution on a Windows machine, it is nice to be able to run HyperCard in OS 8.1 so I can visually see the differences. Of course Apple would not be at all happy if OS X were being emulated. ~Roger Sure there is! http://www.maconlinux.org/ Among others. ummm there is no such thing as 'Mac Emulation Software' - Apple would never license the firmware...and if I had such Draconian requirements for a class, I'd change schools... ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
Actually, there is... I think it's called something like Basilisk... Judy On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote: ummm there is no such thing as 'Mac Emulation Software' - Apple would never license the firmware...and if I had such Draconian requirements for a class, I'd change schools... And universities... IT departments in universities can be just as strange. My professor, a mac user for a particular program (Accordance), instead of being permitted to bring in his own computer at his own expense was given a very very very bottom of the barrel PC gray-box and some Mac emulation software. ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
Hi Alex, Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:15:36 -0700 From: Alex Rice [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?] I had a linguistics prof. in college who came to lecture extremely excited one day because he had seen a performance of _Jabberwocky_ in ASL. I can't even to begin to imagine... On Feb 11, 2004, at 11:41 PM, Ken Norris wrote: - Yeow! Me either. Boggles the mind... - I never knew that. I've been wanting to learn at least AMSLAN for a long time, but there are no teachers or solid learning sources on this island, no courses available. Ken- sorry I shouldn't judge your circumstances. If you need a computer tutor you need a computer tutor! - Well, that's how it is right now. Never can tell down the road, though. There was a teacher here once, but I think she left town. About 15 years ago there was a HyperCard program that used drawings, like most manuals I've seen, but it was still a little hard to follow, and IIRC, no decent testing. What might be cool is a series QT clips, words, phrases, and sentences. I thought a program like that might be somewhere on Jacque's trail. Ken N. ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
At 1:50 PM -0600 2/12/04, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 2/12/04 12:41 AM, Ken Norris wrote: Did you ever write a tutorial for learning it on the computer? No. I can't imagine the amount of work that would take. You can't exactly write it down; it would all have to be videos. I've seen an AMESLAN tutorial - in fact I think it was a HyperCard stack! - with pictures. Just the most basic of signs, though. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.jaedworks.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
I don't know where the original message went to this, but there is emulation software that emulates a 68k environment, so installing a classic system would work. I know this, because I've installed system 8 on my p4 laptop before. Was it fun? no, but it worked. Basilisk ][. enjoy all ye daring! http://www.uni-mainz.de/~bauec002/B2Main.html And it wasn't a requirement for a class, but for his office machine, which makes even less sense. Yours, Chris On Feb 12, 2004, at 3:25 PM, Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote: But it's under Linux/PPC! If I had a Power PC processor, why bother, I'd just run Mac OS. Sure there is! http://www.maconlinux.org/ Among others. ummm there is no such thing as 'Mac Emulation Software' - Apple would never license the firmware...and if I had such Draconian requirements for a class, I'd change schools... ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
Richard, This is logic that I can understand. I see what you are saying now and your other point about 'if' a plugin were ever developed down the road I would be in a position to re-use my experiences to empower myself. I guess that really is the point. Since I have not implemented your/Rev's approach, I don't have enough knowledge to judge whether or not I can get what I want done NOW with what we have. So if i were to start down this road I might find other ways around what I was used to doing and might even find it more useful. :-) Thanks, Almost a full convert, Tom On Feb 12, 2004, at 11:56 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: That's all I'm trying to accomplish here: when you identify a need you can go two ways to solve it, finding a way to satisfy that need today or defining the problem in terms that require things beyond your control and which may never actually come to pass. Choosing the latter is less likely to get results if doing the former can get the job done. Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.1, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 2.1.2 Advanced Media Group Thomas J McGrath III 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 220 Drake Road, Bethel Park, PA 15102 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
Thomas McGrath III wrote: On Feb 12, 2004, at 11:56 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: That's all I'm trying to accomplish here: when you identify a need you can go two ways to solve it, finding a way to satisfy that need today or defining the problem in terms that require things beyond your control and which may never actually come to pass. Choosing the latter is less likely to get results if doing the former can get the job done. This is logic that I can understand. I see what you are saying now and your other point about 'if' a plugin were ever developed down the road I would be in a position to re-use my experiences to empower myself. Not necessarilly that you wouldn't have the experience -- lord knows that with a mind like yours there's no end to what you could accomplish. It's more of an encouragement to jump into the now: there's so much that can be done for solving real-world problems with Rev as it is today that it just seems much more exciting than holding off for a future possibility. And when it comes to browser plugins, I haven't met a client yet whose eyes don't light up when I describe the things we can do beyond the browser. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
Hi Jacque, Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:50:14 -0600 From: J. Landman Gay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?] On 2/12/04 12:41 AM, Ken Norris wrote: I never knew that. I've been wanting to learn at least AMSLAN for a long time, but there are no teachers or solid learning sources on this island, no courses available. Did you ever write a tutorial for learning it on the computer? No. I can't imagine the amount of work that would take. You can't exactly write it down; it would all have to be videos. There once was a HC stack with drawings similar to most workbooks I've seen. Not well known, but I borrowed disks and had it on a Mac SE at work (though no one else knew it) back in '89. I found it a little difficult to work with, so I kind of gave up when my deaf tutor left the hill (Lake Tahoe). I'm not asking you to do it, I just wanted to know. Seems relatively straightforward. So what would it take to map out a syllabus, sit down in front of an iSight and spend 5-10 minutes or so a day on it, just collecting clips? Not Jabberwocky, though ;-) Ken N. ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
Or quicktime VR in object mode!! There was an old sample vr that showed a finger accessing a touchtone phone that came with Quicktime VR toolkit 1.0 Maybe a bunch of image captures of the pieces(hand configurations) that make up a sign and then piece them together. Of course I just thought about the arm movements darn... Well you might be able to do that too. I would weigh that against the video method and see which would take more time/money/effort. Oh well tom On Feb 12, 2004, at 2:50 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 2/12/04 12:41 AM, Ken Norris wrote: I never knew that. I've been wanting to learn at least AMSLAN for a long time, but there are no teachers or solid learning sources on this island, no courses available. Did you ever write a tutorial for learning it on the computer? No. I can't imagine the amount of work that would take. You can't exactly write it down; it would all have to be videos. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
on 2/12/04 4:14 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:30:26 -0500 From: Thomas McGrath III [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?] Or quicktime VR in object mode!! There was an old sample vr that showed a finger accessing a touchtone phone that came with Quicktime VR toolkit 1.0 Maybe a bunch of image captures of the pieces(hand configurations) that make up a sign and then piece them together. Of course I just thought about the arm movements darn... Well you might be able to do that too. I would weigh that against the video method and see which would take more time/money/effort. Yes, I already thought of that, but I think a set of animation parts might work better than QTVR. However, I thought VR would be better for viewing the signs from a different angle, i.e, a QTVR movie could swing around and show the sign from the signer's point of view instead of the audience (if you will) point of view, which is the most common way of presenting the material, but doesn't show formation from the side the signer sees it. Otherwise, I came to the conclusion that just making video clips of a few carefully articulated signs as time is available made more sense. Unless someone comes up with funding to do it fulltime until the project is finished. The _big_ difference with writing it in Rev is, of course, interactivity, which is next to useless on a straight video DVD, and totally useless on tape. You can go to any letter, word, phrase, or sentence, and replay the clip as often as you like while practicing. In fact, perhaps I could get with the producers of current video-based instructional tapes and coax them into a deal to capture the video in clips then go from there. Off to the library... Ken N. ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
For kids, make it into a game (hence, my Mr. Potatohead idea -- present body parts to them -- the signs, that is -- and when they correctly identify the sign at the assessment part, take them to a screen wherein they can choose a particular version of that body part). Judy On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Ken Norris wrote: The _big_ difference with writing it in Rev is, of course, interactivity, which is next to useless on a straight video DVD, and totally useless on tape. ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
On 2/12/04 5:23 PM, Ken Norris wrote: I'm not asking you to do it, I just wanted to know. Seems relatively straightforward. So what would it take to map out a syllabus, sit down in front of an iSight and spend 5-10 minutes or so a day on it, just collecting clips? Sorry, I didn't mean to sound short. The problem with the static picture dictionaries is that you can't really see what the signs do, since by its nature, ASL is a dynamic, fluid language. It moves, and pictures don't. There's a nuance involved, and the meaning of a sign can change in a hundred ways depending on slight alterations in its production. So books and images serve as good reminders if you already know the signs, but they are not very good when learning from scratch. The video idea would be better. It would still lack some nuance, but could work on a basic level. If you do decide to make videos, better find a real deaf person. Except for the children of deaf parents, almost everyone else has a hearing accent. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
Hi Judy, From: Judy Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?] For kids, make it into a game (hence, my Mr. Potatohead idea -- present body parts to them -- the signs, that is -- and when they correctly identify the sign at the assessment part, take them to a screen wherein they can choose a particular version of that body part). -- But what will you do about all the hand movements? Ken N. ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
Hi Jacque, Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:26:59 -0600 From: J. Landman Gay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?] If you do decide to make videos, better find a real deaf person. Except for the children of deaf parents, almost everyone else has a hearing accent. --- If I can get them to go rally slowor slo-mo the video. I'm still trying to imagine Jabberwocky in ASL. ;-) Ken N. ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
From: Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RR as a browser plugin? Pre-installing a helper app could be done just as simply. How ? If we want to use Revolution as a helper application, we need some installer what 1) install a rev player 2) register the rev player to the system 3) register the rev player to the browser (at least IExplorer and Mozilla/Netscape) We can request a end-user to download an installer file and run it or to play an installer file from a cd-rom, but we cannot request an end user to manage himself the registration of Revolution as an helper in his browser, too difficult for him. Was any one successfull in such a task ? Is there a receipe or a sample app availaible ? Claude ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RR as a browser plugin?
Anyone know if RR has created a browser plug-in for RR? It would make a nice competitor to Flash, etc. -- Frank ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
Frank Leahy wrote: Anyone know if RR has created a browser plug-in for RR? It would make a nice competitor to Flash, etc. http://www.google.com/search?q=%22browser+plugin%22+site:lists.runrev.comn um=20hl=enlr=ie=UTF-8safe=offstart=20sa=N In summary: Browser plugins offer no substanial benefit not already addressed by using a standalone as a helper application. At first glance the browser plugin appears to offer instant content without needing to download the engine, but that's an illusion: a plugin is an engine, and if folks don't already have a plugin pre-installed the chances of getting them to do so are not significantly greater than getting them to download a helper app. Flash is successful because of early bundling deals with Netscape, and it remains preinstalled with nearly every browser and OS distribution. Plugins not preinstalled languish in obscurity; relatively few survive today. Moreover, a helper app provides a great many usability advantages over a browser plugin (see http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html). And with secureMode turned on in the helper app it's no less secure. There is another advantage for businesses: with so many entertaining distractions just a click away in a browser, businesses lose billions in productivity each year to employees surfing sports, games, and other entertainment sites during work hours, the equivalent in the pre-Web world to giving your employees a GameBoy and telling them not to use it. ;) By migrating company portals to net apps they can make many of the same services and content available but without the productivity-killing distractions of the WWW. You can usually help clients wake up to the illusion of browser plugin ubiquity with this simple two-minute usabilty test: 1. You and your client walk over to his secretary's desk and ask him to visit three URLs and report back with a summary of what was on each page. Unknown to the tester, the URLs were chosen in advance so that one of them requires a plugin unlikely to be present on the user's system. 2. Observe the results. In most cases, unless the test subject is an ubergeek, you'll get a summary of two out of three pages, with a comment for the plugin page being something like, I couldn't view it because my system doesn't have something it needs, with no attempt to download and install the plugin. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: RR as a browser plugin?
The village people would sign songs about us Oh, good... then I wouldn't have to hear them... ;-) Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
On 2/11/04 5:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The village people would sign songs about us Not to beat a dead horse, but I have to add: In a previous incarnation I was a sign language interpreter. I have actually done this. Off topic: We have a Renaissance Festival here, and one weekend they provided sign interpreters. I had to interpret a group of fishwives singing Ye Bawdy Olde English Drinking Songs -- one of which was entitled, and reiterated many times, my husband has no courage in him. There is really no legitimate sign for that. I chose to use a gradually drooping index finger. The entire audience, both hearing and deaf, never took their eyes off me for the whole performance. The singers were torn between being miffed at the lack of attention paid to them, and elated that they had never had so many laughs during any previous performance. Eventually they asked if I wanted to come back and do it again the next weekend. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
perhaps he forgot to specify that they would be singing the songs outside your window... This is an interesting idea, though, and something I think would be helpful. As was mentioned, however, it is unfortunately a non-trivial request for some people to have to install any 3rd party helper (it is only non-trivial when the 3rd party engines are installed without them knowing about it) because then they might have some thoughts about whether it is secure. in this case, then, following the threads about product placement, it might be a good thing that there is a Mac-centric flavor to the perception. Not many people make too many jokes about Apple or Apple products as being laughably insecure, unlike some competitors. Automating a single install of the runtime (and keeping it current) would be really interesting, and if implemented as described, could be used for other purposes. If there was one unified runtime download/install/setup-as-helper, then standalone apps could be generated in a mode more reminiscent of a stack - just a pointer executable that verifies the engine is already there, and if not downloads and/or updates it. Why have a separate engine in each standalone app if it could be had and used in one location, instantiated for each instance of Revolution app that is run at any given time. just thinking outloud. Yours, Chris On Feb 11, 2004, at 6:57 PM, Ken Ray wrote: The village people would sign songs about us Oh, good... then I wouldn't have to hear them... ;-) Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Instead of a rev engine plug-in, I want one that makes the following scenario happen i roll out a web page with a link to my rev stack that triggers a plug-in required the user accepts the plug-in is downloaded it launches and downloads the rev client app AND (most importantly) configures the browser to use the app as the helper for the rev type the link to the rev stack now goes through and launches the rev helper app That type of scenario cuts the roll-out cost of the app significantly. IT would not have to go around and configure everyone. If we can offer that to clients then we will be local heroes. Yes, that would be as desirable as women being able to walk city streets at night without escort. But sadly neither is possible, for the same reason: criminals abound. A system that could automate what you've described would also allow the automatic installation of any executable, including spyware, viruses, or more dangerous, Microsoft products. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
So I guess then the distinction brower plugin implies it runs in a heavily partitioned area that keeps it safe from being able to be exploited to damage the system... that could still be useful but it is probably easier or at least more useful to build the browser into Rev than to build rev into the browser. but for a bit of hope, I witnessed lots of women walking the streets unescorted at night in Buenos Aires last summer. I will keep my further comments mum! Yours, Chris On Feb 11, 2004, at 9:08 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Instead of a rev engine plug-in, I want one that makes the following scenario happen i roll out a web page with a link to my rev stack that triggers a plug-in required the user accepts the plug-in is downloaded it launches and downloads the rev client app AND (most importantly) configures the browser to use the app as the helper for the rev type the link to the rev stack now goes through and launches the rev helper app That type of scenario cuts the roll-out cost of the app significantly. IT would not have to go around and configure everyone. If we can offer that to clients then we will be local heroes. Yes, that would be as desirable as women being able to walk city streets at night without escort. But sadly neither is possible, for the same reason: criminals abound. A system that could automate what you've described would also allow the automatic installation of any executable, including spyware, viruses, or more dangerous, Microsoft products. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
Hi Jacque, Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:07:01 -0600 From: J. Landman Gay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?] On 2/11/04 5:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The village people would sign songs about us Not to beat a dead horse, but I have to add: In a previous incarnation I was a sign language interpreter. I have actually done this. -- I never knew that. I've been wanting to learn at least AMSLAN for a long time, but there are no teachers or solid learning sources on this island, no courses available. Did you ever write a tutorial for learning it on the computer? Ken N. ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: OT: Village signing [was: RR as a browser plugin?]
On Feb 11, 2004, at 11:41 PM, Ken Norris wrote: Did you ever write a tutorial for learning it on the computer? Not to butt in or anything: Sign Languages area *real* languages. Do you think you could learn German or Portuguese by watching some videos or a computer program? :-) I had a linguistics prof. in college who came to lecture extremely excited one day because he had seen a performance of _Jabberwocky_ in ASL. I can't even to begin to imagine... -- Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
On Feb 11, 2004, at 12:37 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Browser plugins offer no substanial benefit not already addressed by using a standalone as a helper application. I too am a fan of web enabled standalone apps as an alternative to plugins. And I have read and appreciated your article about it. But you are making quite a blanket statement there. Why be so quick to dismiss the browser plugin which could be a good thing for some Runrev developers, even if you aren't interested yourself? A wide variety of browser plugins do exist and are beneficial for many organizations and businesses. Do a search for +GIS +browser plugin. All kinds of plugins come up, most of which is foreign to me: SVG, WML, ExpressView, AlternaTIFF, GeoTIFF, DXF, MrSID, ACGM, Geo-DB, WxScope and on and on. You know there are organizations that need and pay for those browser plugins. Probably a lot of them could have been written with Runrev. Maybe the companies considered standalone apps, and decided in favor of browser plugins. There are all kinds of possible scenarios. re: installed-base and walking over to the secretary's computer and your scenarios you were talking about: in larger companies with carefully tied down desktop and laptop configs, getting a browser plugin pre-installed is not a problem. Large IT departments ghost their disk images and roll-em out like a factory! -- Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
Alex Rice wrote: standalone as a helper application. I too am a fan of web enabled standalone apps as an alternative to plugins. And I have read and appreciated your article about it. But you are making quite a blanket statement there. Why be so quick to dismiss the browser plugin which could be a good thing for some Runrev developers, even if you aren't interested yourself? Because unless it's bundled it will still need to be downloaded, and if one needs to download and install something it could just as well provide multiple window, menus, and other options not possible in a browser. Look at the number of plugins in '98, and how few are left today. Bundling is the advantage of plugins. Without bundling, an engine's an engine -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
On Feb 12, 2004, at 12:27 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Because unless it's bundled it will still need to be downloaded, and if one needs to download and install something it could just as well provide multiple window, menus, and other options not possible in a browser. Look at the number of plugins in '98, and how few are left today. Bundling is the advantage of plugins. Without bundling, an engine's an engine It's not such a black and white issue. You are talking about average-joe-consumer out there with Windows 98, and generalizing that to say there is no advantage to browser plugins, period. I disagree. Look at IT departments that ghost their systems for rollouts. No downloading of plugins required. In fact downloading may not be allowed. In fact- public www access may not even be allowed! Corporations are strange places. -- Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: RR as a browser plugin?
On Feb 11, 2004, at 5:04 PM, Dar Scott wrote: What does it take to turn an app into a helper app? I have never made a browser plugin. Helper apps are different from browser plugins. A Helper App is just a browser preference saying when downloading this file type or MIME type, launch it with this app on my system. A Plugin is a shared-library (or something) that the web browser loads, put it in a sandbox, and gives it access to graphics and gui events in it's area of the window. Java, Flash, and Quicktime are the browser plugins that Safari comes preinstalled with. Unfortunately each browser has it's a different plugin API so it would be lots of work to make one that runs most browsers (IE, Netscape, Safari, etc). -- Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
