Re: Revolution Media 4.x and Revolution Player 3.x
--- On Thu, 11/12/09, Dom mcd...@free.fr wrote: Jan Schenkel janschen...@yahoo.com wrote: With revMedia 4.0 being free, why would we still need a Player? Agreed -- but with a caveat: you talk of persons who are computer-litterate... Think about a person, scared with computers, to which you give a stack... and ? a whole development package?? Or a classroom, as Richmond says! Maybe, also, the question is beginning to go obsolete -- who, nowadays, still gives stacks to other persons? on a disc*, perhaps? A bunch of years ago, I put some HyperCard (and MetaCard) stacks on the web, along with a Player or StackRunner (before the epoch where an official one was available) It seems to that RunRev is going to evolve to the net -- and it's good :-) Sure, with a revlet immediately available on the net, there is no need for a Player ;-) * Apple recently clarified the difference between a disc and a disk ;-) While I agree with you in priciple thata a pure player environment is safest for computer users without technical knowledge, revMedia is not that different from the original HyperCard setup. I don't think double-clicking or going to the File menu to Open a stack, is that difficult to grasp. Now for deployment, a revlet is fine in an internet-connected world - and you can even send people a zip archive with an html page and a revlet that they can run offline, as long as the have the revWeb plugin. And you can still buy revStudio/revEnterprise if you want to build standalone applications. Jan Schenkel = Quartam Reports PDF Library for Revolution http://www.quartam.com = As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time. (La Rochefoucauld) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media 4.x and Revolution Player 3.x
Hiya, The Player makes distribution easier, as in there not being a need to download and install revMedia in order to see the stacks: Slaps the stacks onto a USB stick with the Player and can show it off to anyone without having to get them to 'have to' install revMedia. Cheers, Luis. On 12 Nov 2009, at 20:32, Richmond Mathewson wrote: Jan Schenkel wrote: With revMedia 4.0 being free, why would we still need a Player? The whole idea of giving revMedia away for free, is to let everyone share in the fun - running stacks, deploying them in webpages and letting others take them apart without the ability to password-protect your scripts. Don't panic, revStudio and revEnterprise can still password- protect scripts and these stacks will work just fine in revMedia. But revMedia is about sharing with the rest of the world, and getting more people to try out the revPlatform for themselves. I can think of one reason why one might want a Player: Imagine a cash-strapped teacher designing a stack with revMedia; they might think it a bit too much to expect students to go through the whole jingbang of registering for revMedia, downloading it and installing it a bit of a clunky way to deliver a quick-n-dirty educational media-bite. this might also be applied in situations where there are a number of students with computers who do not have internet access (this, oddly enough, is always overlooked when these arguments come up). A Player/Runner + stack will have less of a footprint than revMedia + stack As an advocate of equipping the under-privileged in this world with old computers I believe that a Player/Runner is essential; especially one that will run stacks on forms of Linux. -- - To personalise this I would like to point out that, while I own Rev Studio 4 it does not work on my Pentium 3s running Ubuntu 5.10; nor does revMedia 4. I have yet to find out how standalones made with 4 'do' on these computers; It may well be that they are just too RAM-hungry to function; a Player/Runner might solve this problem. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media 4.x and Revolution Player 3.x
With revMedia 4.0 being free, why would we still need a Player? The whole idea of giving revMedia away for free, is to let everyone share in the fun - running stacks, deploying them in webpages and letting others take them apart without the ability to password-protect your scripts. Don't panic, revStudio and revEnterprise can still password-protect scripts and these stacks will work just fine in revMedia. But revMedia is about sharing with the rest of the world, and getting more people to try out the revPlatform for themselves. Jan Schenkel = Quartam Reports PDF Library for Revolution http://www.quartam.com = As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time. (La Rochefoucauld) --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Dom mcd...@free.fr wrote: From: Dom mcd...@free.fr Subject: Revolution Media 4.x and Revolution Player 3.x To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:38 AM As a former user of Revolution Media 3.x, I used Revolution Player to run stacks without launching the development environment... I am wondering if I still can use the old Revolution Player (3.x) to run stacks created with the new Revolution Media 4.x? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media 4.x and Revolution Player 3.x
Jan Schenkel wrote: With revMedia 4.0 being free, why would we still need a Player? The whole idea of giving revMedia away for free, is to let everyone share in the fun - running stacks, deploying them in webpages and letting others take them apart without the ability to password-protect your scripts. Don't panic, revStudio and revEnterprise can still password-protect scripts and these stacks will work just fine in revMedia. But revMedia is about sharing with the rest of the world, and getting more people to try out the revPlatform for themselves. I can think of one reason why one might want a Player: Imagine a cash-strapped teacher designing a stack with revMedia; they might think it a bit too much to expect students to go through the whole jingbang of registering for revMedia, downloading it and installing it a bit of a clunky way to deliver a quick-n-dirty educational media-bite. this might also be applied in situations where there are a number of students with computers who do not have internet access (this, oddly enough, is always overlooked when these arguments come up). A Player/Runner + stack will have less of a footprint than revMedia + stack As an advocate of equipping the under-privileged in this world with old computers I believe that a Player/Runner is essential; especially one that will run stacks on forms of Linux. --- To personalise this I would like to point out that, while I own Rev Studio 4 it does not work on my Pentium 3s running Ubuntu 5.10; nor does revMedia 4. I have yet to find out how standalones made with 4 'do' on these computers; It may well be that they are just too RAM-hungry to function; a Player/Runner might solve this problem. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media 4.x and Revolution Player 3.x
Jan Schenkel janschen...@yahoo.com wrote: With revMedia 4.0 being free, why would we still need a Player? Agreed -- but with a caveat: you talk of persons who are computer-litterate... Think about a person, scared with computers, to which you give a stack... and ? a whole development package?? Or a classroom, as Richmond says! Maybe, also, the question is beginning to go obsolete -- who, nowadays, still gives stacks to other persons? on a disc*, perhaps? A bunch of years ago, I put some HyperCard (and MetaCard) stacks on the web, along with a Player or StackRunner (before the epoch where an official one was available) It seems to that RunRev is going to evolve to the net -- and it's good :-) Sure, with a revlet immediately available on the net, there is no need for a Player ;-) * Apple recently clarified the difference between a disc and a disk ;-) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
On 29.06.2006, at 23:06, Chipp Walters wrote: No argument here. Microsoft's business practice is deplorable...no, criminal. depends on your point of view. How many people has this business practice killed? How man companies? How man lifes and human been destroyed? How many bilions dollars have we all paid for the strategic incompatiblility. How many bilions for expansive licenses, etc, etc, etc Mean-spirited as well. You know a corporate culture like theirs is always driven top-down. Makes me wonder what Gates is REALLY going to do with his billions marked for charity. Answer is easy: money! And politics and did I mentioned: money? Hmm, perhaps a spot in heaven IS FOR SALE? No! Thanks god, its not availiable for money. But he wont need that, when he will rebirth as a Pinguin, because Pinguins dont need money... regards wolfgang bereuter -- Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html traips! photolearning trainingsmaps ... http://www.traips.org http://www.internettrainer.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria Tel: ++43/1/ 479 6410 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
To me, the units sold and installed base numbers are guidelines but not real indicators of a particular system's real penetration which is measured in something I'd call units in daily use by humans. That figure can't be obtained, of course, but one figure that CAN be obtained is the mix of computer operating systems visiting various Web sites with logs that can track the OS in use. Given that a large majority of machines in human use at any given time are navigating the Internet, that would be at least a useful measurement of the degree of actual market penetration. There are a LOT of WIndows machines (and, I'm sure, old Macs as well) being used for doorstops, paperweights, and lying in landfills and other states of disuse. By that standard, OS X and Linux run 3-5% each and Windows at just about 90%. The stats I find most reliable are these: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp On 6/29/06, Chipp Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/29/06, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whether or not one agrees with the two dozen governments around the world who've found Microsoft guilty of sweeping anti-trust violations, however that market share was acquired there's no denying it exists. No argument here. Microsoft's business practice is deplorable...no, criminal. Mean-spirited as well. You know a corporate culture like theirs is always driven top-down. Makes me wonder what Gates is REALLY going to do with his billions marked for charity. Hmm, perhaps a spot in heaven IS FOR SALE? -Chipp ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
On Jun 30, 2006, at 1:20 AM, Dan Shafer wrote: To me, the units sold and installed base numbers are guidelines but not real indicators of a particular system's real penetration which is measured in something I'd call units in daily use by humans. That figure can't be obtained, of course, but one figure that CAN be obtained is the mix of computer operating systems visiting various Web sites with logs that can track the OS in use. Given that a large majority of machines in human use at any given time are navigating the Internet, that would be at least a useful measurement of the degree of actual market penetration. There are a LOT of WIndows machines (and, I'm sure, old Macs as well) being used for doorstops, paperweights, and lying in landfills and other states of disuse. By that standard, OS X and Linux run 3-5% each and Windows at just about 90%. The stats I find most reliable are these: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp But even these stats are problematic. I found it curious that Safari didn't even appear on the list, while Opera does. The problem is that Safari, along with some other browsers, masks its identity so that it can access some poorly written sites that require a specific browser (usually IE for Windows.) So not only is OS X underrepresented on sites like this, IE's presence may be exaggerated. Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Well, I'm not sure I agree with all of your analysis, Devin. Browser masking certainly results in under-reporting of browsers like Safari that can (or even must) masquerade as others, but you can't mask the OS very easily. On 6/30/06, Devin Asay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 30, 2006, at 1:20 AM, Dan Shafer wrote: To me, the units sold and installed base numbers are guidelines but not real indicators of a particular system's real penetration which is measured in something I'd call units in daily use by humans. That figure can't be obtained, of course, but one figure that CAN be obtained is the mix of computer operating systems visiting various Web sites with logs that can track the OS in use. Given that a large majority of machines in human use at any given time are navigating the Internet, that would be at least a useful measurement of the degree of actual market penetration. There are a LOT of WIndows machines (and, I'm sure, old Macs as well) being used for doorstops, paperweights, and lying in landfills and other states of disuse. By that standard, OS X and Linux run 3-5% each and Windows at just about 90%. The stats I find most reliable are these: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp But even these stats are problematic. I found it curious that Safari didn't even appear on the list, while Opera does. The problem is that Safari, along with some other browsers, masks its identity so that it can access some poorly written sites that require a specific browser (usually IE for Windows.) So not only is OS X underrepresented on sites like this, IE's presence may be exaggerated. Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
The smallest marketshare I could find for Windows was 84%, which I kind of doubt-- IMO it's too small. I'm not too big on 'projections,' especially the ones about computers. Didn't they predict the end of computers around 2000 ;-) Frankly, 58% in 2007 seems laughable. Though I guess if your counting ALL cellphones, then you could be right..but for that matter shouldn't we include all GPS systems? And what about those little computers which control anti-braking on cars? And let's not forget those microcontrollers they put on every kitchen appiance. Hmm, now we've got MS down to under 10% market share. Geez, time to buy PUTS on MSFT. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Chipp Walters wrote: The smallest marketshare I could find for Windows was 84% Not too far off the original poster's estimate of 80%. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
On Jun 28, 2006, at 11:29 AM, Dan Shafer wrote: OK, so how many of us would be willing to throw, say, a grand at a developer or team to do this project? Delivering a Rev stack/app in DHTML would be such an awesome tool that I'd use it daily. If a grand means $1,000.00, then I surely would spend at least that much. Dave B. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Yes, but that 84% includes ALL OS'es. Whereas Stephen said: *I figure once you whittle down all the point-of-sale, CNC drilling machines, and ATMs the actual HUMAN used market share of Macs vs PC is more around 20% The 84% doesn't suppose the other 16% is for Macs, quite the contrary. As I mentioned, the largest marketshare I could find for Macs was less than 5%. In anycase, I seriously doubt either you or Stephen can make a real case for the Mac having a 20% marketshare (though there are many of us who do wish it had a larger marketshare, if only for the sake of competition to MS). -Chipp On 6/29/06, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chipp Walters wrote: The smallest marketshare I could find for Windows was 84% Not too far off the original poster's estimate of 80%. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Chipp Walters wrote: In anycase, I seriously doubt either you or Stephen can make a real case for the Mac having a 20% marketshare Maybe Stephen did intend that, but read it differently. Speaking only for myself, I've never made such a claim about total market share, nor would I: The largest market share based on unit sales that I've ever seen for Apple was never higher than 10%, more than twice the highest figure since Steve's been back. Remember, I'm the one who's been lobbying for more XP-native features like native-looking menus instead of OS X-specific things like drawers. I know which customers pay my bills. :) Whether or not one agrees with the two dozen governments around the world who've found Microsoft guilty of sweeping anti-trust violations, however that market share was acquired there's no denying it exists. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
On 6/29/06, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whether or not one agrees with the two dozen governments around the world who've found Microsoft guilty of sweeping anti-trust violations, however that market share was acquired there's no denying it exists. No argument here. Microsoft's business practice is deplorable...no, criminal. Mean-spirited as well. You know a corporate culture like theirs is always driven top-down. Makes me wonder what Gates is REALLY going to do with his billions marked for charity. Hmm, perhaps a spot in heaven IS FOR SALE? -Chipp ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
OK, so how many of us would be willing to throw, say, a grand at a developer or team to do this project? Delivering a Rev stack/app in DHTML would be such an awesome tool that I'd use it daily. On 6/27/06, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: GregSmith wrote: And all of the linkages are already in place through AJAX for the major browsers so that nothing would need to be downloaded to be viewed and experienced? I think the best answer here would be depends. :) All is a pretty big word, and as I mentioned earlier JavaScript/DHTML is only really suited for a subset of all the things Rev can do. But on the upside, anything that truly benefits from being in a browser probably represents a pretty narrow subset of Rev's capabilities anyway. So in brief, if ToolBook could do this almost a decade ago I see no reason why Rev couldn't also: 1. Identify a subset of things that would be useful in a browser. 2. Make a Rev library with handlers to support those tasks. 3. Make a JavaScript library with corresponding handlers to get those behaviors in a browser. 4. Author in Rev, have a library generate the objects as DHTML snippets in a web page, reference the JavaScript lib, and upload. 5. Give the URL to your friends and enjoy. :) Oh, and I forgot Step 0 (before 1): 0. Get some of the open source advocates here to do #1, 2, and 3. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Dan Shafer wrote: Delivering a Rev stack/app in DHTML would be such an awesome tool that I'd use it daily. If you chappies discussing this thread (most of which is above my head) think that comparison would be of any value, I suggest you visit - http://www.rebol.com - to see what Carl Sassenrath is doing. Click on the following link: New REBOL Browser Plugin - New! New capabilities! Plus support for Firefox/Mozilla/Etc. and Opera Further information on this development can be found under Carl's Blog entitled Browser Plugin Update. The Windows only version is very much older, and you can see a demo of it (including the fully automatic installation of the plugin) at my own site: http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/vector_graphics_in_revolution.htm Scroll down to the picture of my sister-in-law's knitting machine and you will find the instructions for the demo: The above shows a Rebol program (script) running via a plugin in the Internet Explorer/altBrowser. It's a slideshow with 10 raster images. If you want to see how this works in the Internet Explorer using a PC (and also in an altBrowser stack once you acquire it), simply navigate to http://www.howsoft.com/photos for a demo. Rebol will install its plugin automatically (2 seconds)**, and then the pictures will be downloaded. Then, you can see the slideshow in the browser. [** In the old days - Win XP SP1 - it used to take about 2 seconds to install this plugin automatically, but now - with SP2 - you have to give it permission. Nevertheless, it is very quick. What takes longer is the download of the photos for the demo, but this has nothing to do with the Rebol plugin itself.] As far as I can see, this development is relevant to what Rev may or may not decide to implement in various ways, both technically and also in terms of keeping up with what's out there. In short, just about any program written in Rebol can be run - with no hassle - in the Windows Internet Explorer. The same facility for Firefox etc. is still in alpha, but will probably be ready this year. Everybody speaks about Java, Flash, etc., but nobody seems to be really aware of what Rebol are up to. Also, as far as I can see, my little demo is highly relevant to the Web presentation of media. Just thought I'd mention it. Regards, Bob ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
The problem wiht rebol is that it is yet another plug-in. The reason schools (for example) want web/browser-delivered content is that they don't have to go in and touch every workstation. If Rev could deliver a stack via DHTML/AJAX, that would be the ideal! I was even pondering writing my own Rev tool to create a Rev stack and an DHTML/AJAX version of the same thing. At 01:58 PM 6/28/2006, you wrote: Dan Shafer wrote: Delivering a Rev stack/app in DHTML would be such an awesome tool that I'd use it daily. If you chappies discussing this thread (most of which is above my head) think that comparison would be of any value, I suggest you visit - http://www.rebol.com - to see what Carl Sassenrath is doing. Click on the following link: New REBOL Browser Plugin - New! New capabilities! Plus support for Firefox/Mozilla/Etc. and Opera Further information on this development can be found under Carl's Blog entitled Browser Plugin Update. The Windows only version is very much older, and you can see a demo of it (including the fully automatic installation of the plugin) at my own site: http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/vector_graphics_in_revolution.htm Scroll down to the picture of my sister-in-law's knitting machine and you will find the instructions for the demo: The above shows a Rebol program (script) running via a plugin in the Internet Explorer/altBrowser. It's a slideshow with 10 raster images. If you want to see how this works in the Internet Explorer using a PC (and also in an altBrowser stack once you acquire it), simply navigate to http://www.howsoft.com/photos for a demo. Rebol will install its plugin automatically (2 seconds)**, and then the pictures will be downloaded. Then, you can see the slideshow in the browser. [** In the old days - Win XP SP1 - it used to take about 2 seconds to install this plugin automatically, but now - with SP2 - you have to give it permission. Nevertheless, it is very quick. What takes longer is the download of the photos for the demo, but this has nothing to do with the Rebol plugin itself.] As far as I can see, this development is relevant to what Rev may or may not decide to implement in various ways, both technically and also in terms of keeping up with what's out there. In short, just about any program written in Rebol can be run - with no hassle - in the Windows Internet Explorer. The same facility for Firefox etc. is still in alpha, but will probably be ready this year. Everybody speaks about Java, Flash, etc., but nobody seems to be really aware of what Rebol are up to. Also, as far as I can see, my little demo is highly relevant to the Web presentation of media. Just thought I'd mention it. Regards, Bob ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Dear Peter and All, I would'nt be too negative but two Rebol geeks of my friends could explain lots about the Rebol IE plug-in (Olivier Auverlot, the writer of the french's Eyrolles Rebol programmers reference book, and François Jouen of the Ecole Pratiques de Hautes-Etudes institute). In short, this plug-in is probably not dedicated to be used as a professional grade tool. Best, The problem wiht rebol is that it is yet another plug-in. The reason schools (for example) want web/browser-delivered content is that they don't have to go in and touch every workstation. If Rev could deliver a stack via DHTML/AJAX, that would be the ideal! I was even pondering writing my own Rev tool to create a Rev stack and an DHTML/AJAX version of the same thing. At 01:58 PM 6/28/2006, you wrote: Dan Shafer wrote: Delivering a Rev stack/app in DHTML would be such an awesome tool that I'd use it daily. If you chappies discussing this thread (most of which is above my head) think that comparison would be of any value, I suggest you visit - http://www.rebol.com - to see what Carl Sassenrath is doing. Click on the following link: New REBOL Browser Plugin - New! New capabilities! Plus support for Firefox/Mozilla/Etc. and Opera Further information on this development can be found under Carl's Blog entitled Browser Plugin Update. The Windows only version is very much older, and you can see a demo of it (including the fully automatic installation of the plugin) at my own site: http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/vector_graphics_in_revolution.htm Scroll down to the picture of my sister-in-law's knitting machine and you will find the instructions for the demo: The above shows a Rebol program (script) running via a plugin in the Internet Explorer/altBrowser. It's a slideshow with 10 raster images. If you want to see how this works in the Internet Explorer using a PC (and also in an altBrowser stack once you acquire it), simply navigate to http://www.howsoft.com/photos for a demo. Rebol will install its plugin automatically (2 seconds)**, and then the pictures will be downloaded. Then, you can see the slideshow in the browser. [** In the old days - Win XP SP1 - it used to take about 2 seconds to install this plugin automatically, but now - with SP2 - you have to give it permission. Nevertheless, it is very quick. What takes longer is the download of the photos for the demo, but this has nothing to do with the Rebol plugin itself.] As far as I can see, this development is relevant to what Rev may or may not decide to implement in various ways, both technically and also in terms of keeping up with what's out there. In short, just about any program written in Rebol can be run - with no hassle - in the Windows Internet Explorer. The same facility for Firefox etc. is still in alpha, but will probably be ready this year. Everybody speaks about Java, Flash, etc., but nobody seems to be really aware of what Rebol are up to. Also, as far as I can see, my little demo is highly relevant to the Web presentation of media. Just thought I'd mention it. Regards, Bob ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Pierre Sahores www.sahores-conseil.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
facility for Firefox etc. is still in alpha, but will probably be ready this year. Everybody speaks about Java, Flash, etc., but nobody seems to be really aware of what Rebol are up to. Also, as far as I can see, my little demo is highly relevant to the Web presentation of media. Yeah, I could use something like this.. cool. except it's moot (again) for Mac users. At least Java Flash, etc. is cross-platform. I really get tired of hearing about when 'next big things' for the web turn out to be platform specific. Java and Flash were inclusive from day one. Late deployment usually means a stripped-down version 'for the rest of us'. Witness the fact that Skype has been around for 2 years, their PC version can do video, but not the Mac. What about the other 20%*? Can Rebol be done for the 'other side'? Otherwise it's not very useful on the web..a web app should be universal at least for the top 2 client OS's. From the Rebol page: REBOL Technologies now provides the REBOL/Plugin, a new web browser plugin module for Microsoft Internet Explorer, Mozilla, Firefox, and other browsers (currently running on Windows OS, but we plan to support OSX, Linux, BSD and others in the future). Sounds wonderful, but again we have promises of 'in the future' - how can anyone build a site built on intentionally ignoring 20% of one's potential audience? Well, hell this is a WEB product - why isn't it working on the Mac now? This Windows first stuff doesn't work for the web. So my question to Carl Sassenrath, the creator of REBOL is: When, if ever? fyi this guy did work for Apple at one point. *I figure once you whittle down all the point-of-sale, CNC drilling machines, and ATMs the actual HUMAN used market share of Macs vs PC is more around 20% sqb -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
I thought that point was moot if it installs in 2 seconds! The problem wiht rebol is that it is yet another plug-in. The reason schools (for example) want web/browser-delivered content is that they don't have to go in and touch every workstation. -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Before switching to Rev I was a REBOL coder, I have very fond memories of REBOL... On Jun 28, 2006, at 8:58 AM, Bob Warren wrote: Dan Shafer wrote: Delivering a Rev stack/app in DHTML would be such an awesome tool that I'd use it daily. If you chappies discussing this thread (most of which is above my head) think that comparison would be of any value, I suggest you visit - http://www.rebol.com - to see what Carl Sassenrath is doing. Click on the following link: New REBOL Browser Plugin - New! New capabilities! Plus support for Firefox/Mozilla/Etc. and Opera Further information on this development can be found under Carl's Blog entitled Browser Plugin Update. The Windows only version is very much older, and you can see a demo of it (including the fully automatic installation of the plugin) at my own site: http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/vector_graphics_in_revolution.htm Scroll down to the picture of my sister-in-law's knitting machine and you will find the instructions for the demo: The above shows a Rebol program (script) running via a plugin in the Internet Explorer/altBrowser. It's a slideshow with 10 raster images. If you want to see how this works in the Internet Explorer using a PC (and also in an altBrowser stack once you acquire it), simply navigate to http://www.howsoft.com/photos for a demo. Rebol will install its plugin automatically (2 seconds)**, and then the pictures will be downloaded. Then, you can see the slideshow in the browser. [** In the old days - Win XP SP1 - it used to take about 2 seconds to install this plugin automatically, but now - with SP2 - you have to give it permission. Nevertheless, it is very quick. What takes longer is the download of the photos for the demo, but this has nothing to do with the Rebol plugin itself.] As far as I can see, this development is relevant to what Rev may or may not decide to implement in various ways, both technically and also in terms of keeping up with what's out there. In short, just about any program written in Rebol can be run - with no hassle - in the Windows Internet Explorer. The same facility for Firefox etc. is still in alpha, but will probably be ready this year. Everybody speaks about Java, Flash, etc., but nobody seems to be really aware of what Rebol are up to. Also, as far as I can see, my little demo is highly relevant to the Web presentation of media. Just thought I'd mention it. Regards, Bob ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
I work in windows only... also, REBOL is a very nice language created by one of the guys from the AMIGA era... very nice indeed. But it's not match to Rev when it comes to create desktop apps. Andre On Jun 28, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Stephen Barncard wrote: I thought that point was moot if it installs in 2 seconds! The problem wiht rebol is that it is yet another plug-in. The reason schools (for example) want web/browser-delivered content is that they don't have to go in and touch every workstation. -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Andre Garzia wrote: I work in windows only... also, REBOL is a very nice language created by one of the guys from the AMIGA era... very nice indeed. But it's not match to Rev when it comes to create desktop apps. Agreed. Way back when Rebol was enjoying its 15 minutes of fame I gave it a good look, and found that i just didn't look as nice as Rev stuff. Part of that is that they didn't double-buffer their windows, so the redraws were abysmal; maybe they've fixed that since then. But overall, aside from a browser plugin I've seen nothing in Rebol that couldn't be done in Rev. And if someone took the time to make a handy library (back when I had time on my hands I thought of calling it Revol g) to provide one-liners for anything Rebol does that isn't already a one-liner in Transcript. When it was the only game in town, Rebol was way cool. But that was a long time ago, and Rev has grown far beyond it -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
My main point is that it is a plug-in. I haven't really looked at it's capabilities. The problem is, it requires a plug-in to be installed on the user's machine. At 02:43 PM 6/28/2006, you wrote: Dear Peter and All, I would'nt be too negative but two Rebol geeks of my friends could explain lots about the Rebol IE plug-in (Olivier Auverlot, the writer of the french's Eyrolles Rebol programmers reference book, and François Jouen of the Ecole Pratiques de Hautes-Etudes institute). In short, this plug-in is probably not dedicated to be used as a professional grade tool. Peter T. Evensen http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com 314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
On 6/28/06, Stephen Barncard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about the other 20%*? Funny, the most I could find the Mac had was: Currently Apple has a US market share of 4.5 percent and a global market share of 2.5 percent. --http://www.andybudd.com/archives/2005/07/apple_market_share/ Guess you could do one of those ads for Apple? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Chipp Walters wrote: On 6/28/06, Stephen Barncard stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com wrote: What about the other 20%*? Funny, the most I could find the Mac had was: Currently Apple has a US market share of 4.5 percent and a global market share of 2.5 percent. --http://www.andybudd.com/archives/2005/07/apple_market_share/ Mac isn't the only non-Windows system out there. There are a few flavors of UNIX, more than a dozen popular Linux distros, and at least one Newton user in Brazil. This article from about 8 months earlier than the one you cited goes out on a limb to suggest that Windows marketshare will not merely continue to decline, but rather dramatically to about 58% by 2007, once PDAs, cell phones, and other OS environments are taken into account: http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/04/23/HNconsolidation_1.html Of course those systems aren't running OS X either. :) This article discusses some of the difficulties in establishing good methodologies for measuring marketshare of Linux vs Windows: http://linux.sys-con.com/read/32648.htm?CFID=330523CFTOKEN=B457A4C5-794B-EBDC-09B212C3C154BA67 And of course there are other factors, like the figures for specific markets like education where Macs are reported to have a disproportionate showing (some say 14, not anywhere near its peak of 30% in 1999 but not bad): http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/Jple8zB2GaIfC8/Apple-Looks-to-Get-Back-Domination-of-College-Market.xhtml I don't believe unit sales tell the whole story of human usage, esp. when you take into account that most non-human-driven computers aren't Macs (factory automation and the like; I know one shop where most people use Macs and a single floor manager runs 10 Wintel boxes drive machinery; in a head count it's 10-to-1 Mac, but in a box count it appears even), and one would need to account for system longevity and a great many other things to figure out how many actual people are using each system. But while unit sales may be a weak measurement, it's the simplest to derive so it's the one most commonly used. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Richard, Votes are precious so although I am very interested in this I don't think I have enough votes left to apply to it. I would say that maybe some crossover between a Flash/Java output and a Rev development app would help greatly in this endeavor. Maybe an Object exporter from with in Rev that exports objects into a format useful in flash with built in functionality. Tom McG On Jun 27, 2006, at 12:25 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: . . . or, better yet, a translator which exports the fully functional Revolution stack into a format like Flash or QuickTime. Or even Java, which may be a closer fit in a lot of ways, and there's a lot of example code on generating byte code. Yeah, I'd like this option for some things. There may even be a feature request filed in Bugzilla for this. I wonder how many votes it's gotten. In the meantime, for Web deployment it's hard to beat Flash, just as for desktop applications it's hard to beat Rev. I suppose it'd be ideal to have one tool that does everything optimally, but since both tools are pretty cheap and (at least in my work) it's rare that I'd want to make the same thing for web deployment and as a desktop app, maybe two tools isn't a deal breaker for either. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal Thomas J McGrath III [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lazy River Software - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com Lazy River Metal Art™ - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/metal.html Meeting Wear - http://www.cafepress.com/meetingwear Semantic Compaction Systems - http://www.minspeak.com SCIconics, LLC - http://www.sciconics.com/sciindex.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
So, for the Revolution author who wants to take advantage of all of the authoring prowess of Revolution, yet wants to also enjoy the added benefit of regular sales transactions, he or she might be best served by a compromise in the form of a standard browser plug-in, which fully displays all of the functionality of a Revolution stack . . . or, better yet, a translator which exports the fully functional Revolution stack into a format like Flash or QuickTime. Hi Greg, In terms of training, the channel is FILLED with product that definitely is not delivered by way of a browser at all, though they may incorporate Quicktime video playback (just like Revolution does). One problem with developing a standard browser plugin is that there are still multiple browsers out there, and multiple versions of those browsers, and supporting them can be a nightmare. There are reasons for using different tools that depend entirely on your project. There are downsides to delivering a media message directly through a browser as compared to a heavy client like Revolution - again, the number of downsides depends on the details of your project. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Worldwide Business Operations Runtime Revolution, Ltd ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
T'aint the same as displaying content embedded in the middle of a web page; and still requires (as every other possible solution would) the end user to download something on their disk; but it occurs to me that we might, with little effort, at least be able to get to the state that PDF is on for many people. That is, while some browsers display PDF as a whole window within the browser, many others simply hand off a PDF file linked from a web page to Acrobat or Preview. At least on the Mac, I think it would be simple to write a standalone that when launched, sets itself as the handler for eg the protocal revhttp:. Then instead of telling to people to launch Rev and type go to URL http://xxx; in the message box, you'd simply have a link like this on a web page: a href=revhttp://xxx;click to run/a When the user clicks it, the browser hands it off to the standalone, which will be launched if necessary - the standalone gets the message to open that URL, realises it is a rev stack to be accessed by http, fetches the stack, opens. I know the basic mechanism (browser handing off URL to app written in Rev) works, because I used it recently to have links in web page causing a Rev-based app to display some relevant information. In that case I was manually configuring the Mac to link the 'protocol' to my app, but I assume this can be done programatically. (My suggestion above, assuming it's trivial, is to make the standalone runner be its own installer in this respect.) I never did discover how to set up a custom protocal mapping like this on Windows - does anyone know? If this idea actually strikes anyone as useful, perhaps the RevInterop group might like to consider if there are some guidelines that might be useful to standardise on. Also (Lynn?) - while clearly a Studio/Enterprise user can set something like this up for themselves/their own user base, would RunRev have issues about this? Maybe (unless everyone thinks this is a totally dumb idea) this functionality could be built into the forthcoming enhanced Rev Player. Ben Rubinstein | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com| Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Judy: Exactly, not only do people NOT want to go to the trouble of downloading yet another browser plug-in, they especially do not want to go to the trouble of installing an application which they have never heard of, on a machine they may not own. This all boils down to people being ignorant and conditioned and suspicious . . . and there is no turning back now. Especially not with all the mobile this and cell phone that. This is painfully and specifically true to those who try to sell anything online that may depend, somewhat, on impulse. And, remember, both Flash and QuickTime players come already installed in the most popular and current web browsers. The less the user has to do, the more they will use it, the more they will trust it, and the less it will matter what software was used to author it. Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--tf1846212.html#a5068603 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
As a non-committed Revolution explorer, my expectations are quite high, these days, when I purchase any new authoring tool. Prices are plummetting everywhere and I expect very much bang for my buck. After four days of searching for the ultimate Mac-based web authoring product, I found that all of them, except Revolution, (of any flavor), output my efforts as Flash or QuickTime or CSS or HTML. Most of these solutions were either extremely elementary in the kind of content they could produce, or too cryptic with not enough user examples and tutorials, to catch my dollar. Revolution Media really caught my interest because of its friendly nature, its low price and its ability to harness Transcript, the least intimidating programming language out there, (I think). Silly me, I just assumed that it would generate some kind of standard web (browser) output that would retain, at least most of the interactivity, I built in. It is not out of the question that a $49 authoring application would include this kind of functionality. No matter which version of Revolution you are trying to sell, nor how technically educated the applicant may be, the guys and gals who pay their wages all think mainly in terms of The Web for online dellivery of multimedia content. And the potential purchaser of a product like Media will be thinking along those same lines. Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--tf1846212.html#a5068987 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
On Jun 27, 2006, at 8:46 AM, GregSmith wrote: Exactly, not only do people NOT want to go to the trouble of downloading yet another browser plug-in, they especially do not want to go to the trouble of installing an application which they have never heard of, on a machine they may not own. This all boils down to people being ignorant and conditioned and suspicious . . . and there is no turning back now. Especially not with all the mobile this and cell phone that. This is painfully and specifically true to those who try to sell anything online that may depend, somewhat, on impulse. Hi Greg, While generally true, I have found that if content is truly compelling to a person they are willing to take the necessary steps to get that content. The common forms of e-learning deployment are definitely through a web browser. If you have content that is aimed at a broad target market then this probably is the best solution. That doesn't mean it is the best solution for all markets. There are many benefits to delivery in a browser but one of the big cons is off-line viewing. My company creates e-learning software. While the e-learning model we use would apply in many areas we target the medical industry, specifically ultrasound. Off-line viewing of content that is always up to date is critical as training often occurs on the road or in a doctor's exam room where internet connectivity might not be available. Our solution was a desktop application that synchs with online content similar to the way you synch a PDA. We have deployed this solution in a few large corporations as well as to the public and had very positive feedback. I think we are able to create a better overall experience for users using a desktop solution. Since our target market finds the content deployed in our e-learning system compelling they are willing to perform the initial download. And, remember, both Flash and QuickTime players come already installed in the most popular and current web browsers. The less the user has to do, the more they will use it, the more they will trust it, and the less it will matter what software was used to author it. The points I would question here are how much a user will use or trust content based on the ease of acquiring the content. It seems to me that people make the most use of things that they find useful. I know of an e-learning solution that were deployed on the web at great expense but which was then taken down relatively quickly because it was deemed useless. It was too hard to use. Regardless of your delivery format, the user experience dictates how often the user will use it. People trust names that are familiar to them and that they have a positive opinion of. If a customer has a need of learning something about a product they purchased from Company ABC and that company provides training then the customer wants access to it (whether on paper, web, etc.). Their opinion of Company ABC is going to be affected by the quality of the training that the company provides. If the training meets the customers needs, a positive opinion is gained and trust increases. If the training is not good the opposite occurs. I believe this happens regardless of the medium of delivery. Just this weekend I heard complaints about companies because of their inadequate assembly instructions. One was about furniture from IKEA and the other about an isolation booth (for music studios). So I would argue that just because a user has less to do to get content does not ensure success. It is the user experience that ultimately decides success. If you can provide that for your target market in a browser, great. If they are better served by a web enabled desktop application then take that route. -- Trevor DeVore Blue Mango Learning Systems - www.bluemangolearning.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Apple publicly demonstrated a plugin that enabled HyperCard stacks to be run within web pages. Unfortunately it never saw distribution. Flash and Director both have connections to HyperCard from way back. Frankly, a web-plugin is a natural for Rev. It would let us developers write games and really awesome interfaces to data sources... the mind boggles at the possibilities. What we're really talking about is a new distribution channel for our creative work. All the philosophical musings about whether the plugin wars are over or whether Rev is an apple or an orange are moot. The dust has far from settled on the Internet. I'd like to see Rev make a nice web plugin. A meg or 2 isn't really that awful nowadays. The key issue would be security/sandbox concerns. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Bill Marriott wrote: Apple publicly demonstrated a plugin that enabled HyperCard stacks to be run within web pages. Unfortunately it never saw distribution. Flash and Director both have connections to HyperCard from way back. Frankly, a web-plugin is a natural for Rev. It would let us developers write games and really awesome interfaces to data sources... the mind boggles at the possibilities. What we're really talking about is a new distribution channel for our creative work. All the philosophical musings about whether the plugin wars are over or whether Rev is an apple or an orange are moot. The dust has far from settled on the Internet. If you can get backing for the development of such a plugin I'm fairly confident RunRev would happily receive the money. But in my experience such investors are hard to find. I've not had a conversation with them yet that didn't end with Why not just use Flash? I'd like to see Rev make a nice web plugin. A meg or 2 isn't really that awful nowadays. The key issue would be security/sandbox concerns. The Rev engine already provides support for a very strong level of security, both in the Player and available to any standalone with the secureMode property, which prevents all file I/O, registry settings, shell commands, and other such calls that can be used for malicious ends. But like you say, that doesn't address the ubiquity question, the desire to be able to have nothing more than a URL to experience the software. A plugin doesn't address that either, since it would still need to be downloaded and installed just like any app, so I'm not certain that's really the best option (try having that conversation with university or hospital IT staff and the knowledgeable ones will raise as many questions about a new plugin as they would about a new app). So what to do for presentation? Well, why not use the world's most popular presentation layer on the web? When we consider that the browser experience really deals with only a subset of what Rev can deliver, maybe there's a whole different way to approach this: JavaScript/DHTML (what newcomers to web development are now calling AJAX). JS provides interactivity in a scripting engine everyone already has installed, and can handle a reasonable subset of the sorts of Rev things that would make sense within a browser window. One could even take this idea further by incorporating SVG so you can have vectors as well (I have a prototype SVG exporter for Rev in RevNet, and there are more complete implementations around). And since SVG now incorporates SMIL as a subset, you have support for synchronized time-based media too. The full range of things Rev can do would be close to impossible to make a Transcript-to-JavaScript translator for, but again if you need a browser presentation you're probably only needing a fairly narrow subset anyway. ToolBook provided some handy support for this sort of deployment, providing native libraries with correlating JavaScript libraries for the subset of things that make the most sense in a browser. There's no reason this couldn't be done in Rev, using a set of templates and wizards on the Rev side and generating corresponding JavaScript/DHTML for web output, just like ToolBook did. Like Google Maps and Google Earth, there are cool things you can do in a browser and even cooler things you can do in a dedicated app. If Google Maps represents Web 2.0, the dedicated Google Earth app represents Web 3.0. :) But for those who want ubiquity it's hard to beat a good browser implementation, and with JavaScript/DHTML being just text it's not all that hard to generate when you have an engine that works so gracefully with chunk expressions. With all the talk of open source support in this community, such an effort based around these open standards on the presentation side should be relatively easy to have at least a basic library and some tools for this in short order. This would provide an answer for the subset of people who want this sort of thing, and it wouldn't cost RunRev Ltd. anything to see it happen. The company wouldn't need to be distracted from their core mission in any way, and the community would get one more yes answer to a common deployment question. A win-win for all. So, who's up for herding cats? :) I'll bet a reasonable v1.0 that addresses the sort of things the Media templates make could be knocked off in under under two weeks' development time -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Richard: And all of the linkages are already in place through AJAX for the major browsers so that nothing would need to be downloaded to be viewed and experienced? Since the Media package is being marketed to people who really don't want to program, but love the media inclusiveness this package contains, why not make such a web deployment set of functions another included Wizard, where the user starts with web deployment in mind, and therefore, starts by using a smaller overall tool subset. At $49, this package would be much more attractive to users than it currently is, giving it a more solid identity. Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--tf1846212.html#a5074464 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you can get backing for the development of such a plugin I'm fairly confident RunRev would happily receive the money. It's always been my plan to win the lottery and give it all to RunRev :) A plugin doesn't address that either, since it would still need to be downloaded and installed just like any app, so I'm not certain that's really the best option (try having that conversation with university or hospital IT staff and the knowledgeable ones will raise as many questions about a new plugin as they would about a new app). Well, they might... but hopefully you'd be able to demonstrate that the plugin was much safer than an app. An EXE can do just about anything it wants with your system. There's plenty of plugins out there besides Flash, anyway. Anytime I go to an online-chat support there's a plugin for the chat. Or smart updaters for driver software. Or various download managers. Or to view a nifty 360 view of a digital camera. Well, why not use the world's most popular presentation layer on the web? When we consider that the browser experience really deals with only a subset of what Rev can deliver, maybe there's a whole different way to approach this: JavaScript/DHTML (what newcomers to web development are now calling AJAX). Ow. My head is starting to hurt! I won't learn JavaScript! You can't make me! LOL JS provides interactivity in a scripting engine everyone already has installed, and can handle a reasonable subset of the sorts of Rev things that would make sense within a browser window. One could even take this idea further by incorporating SVG so you can have vectors as well (I have a prototype SVG exporter for Rev in RevNet, and there are more complete implementations around). And since SVG now incorporates SMIL as a subset, you have support for synchronized time-based media too. Hey doesn't SVG require a plugin? ;) Actually, an SVG export/authoring tool would be pretty feasible and downright beautiful. The full range of things Rev can do would be close to impossible to make a Transcript-to-JavaScript translator for, but again if you need a browser presentation you're probably only needing a fairly narrow subset anyway. ToolBook provided some handy support for this sort of deployment, providing native libraries with correlating JavaScript libraries for the subset of things that make the most sense in a browser. There's no reason this couldn't be done in Rev, using a set of templates and wizards on the Rev side and generating corresponding JavaScript/DHTML for web output, just like ToolBook did. Like Google Maps and Google Earth, there are cool things you can do in a browser and even cooler things you can do in a dedicated app. If Google Maps represents Web 2.0, the dedicated Google Earth app represents Web 3.0. :) But for those who want ubiquity it's hard to beat a good browser implementation, and with JavaScript/DHTML being just text it's not all that hard to generate when you have an engine that works so gracefully with chunk expressions. With all the talk of open source support in this community, such an effort based around these open standards on the presentation side should be relatively easy to have at least a basic library and some tools for this in short order. This would provide an answer for the subset of people who want this sort of thing, and it wouldn't cost RunRev Ltd. anything to see it happen. The company wouldn't need to be distracted from their core mission in any way, and the community would get one more yes answer to a common deployment question. A win-win for all. So, who's up for herding cats? :) I'll bet a reasonable v1.0 that addresses the sort of things the Media templates make could be knocked off in under under two weeks' development time Despite my jokes this is a really good idea. But it certainly is much more suited for building specific applications (i.e., web-enabled Media templates) than for building a general-purpose Rev to Web converter. Kind of like the Microsoft HTML PowerToy -- I don't think it would be possible to make a converter that would work on every stack. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
GregSmith wrote: And all of the linkages are already in place through AJAX for the major browsers so that nothing would need to be downloaded to be viewed and experienced? I think the best answer here would be depends. :) All is a pretty big word, and as I mentioned earlier JavaScript/DHTML is only really suited for a subset of all the things Rev can do. But on the upside, anything that truly benefits from being in a browser probably represents a pretty narrow subset of Rev's capabilities anyway. So in brief, if ToolBook could do this almost a decade ago I see no reason why Rev couldn't also: 1. Identify a subset of things that would be useful in a browser. 2. Make a Rev library with handlers to support those tasks. 3. Make a JavaScript library with corresponding handlers to get those behaviors in a browser. 4. Author in Rev, have a library generate the objects as DHTML snippets in a web page, reference the JavaScript lib, and upload. 5. Give the URL to your friends and enjoy. :) Oh, and I forgot Step 0 (before 1): 0. Get some of the open source advocates here to do #1, 2, and 3. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Jacqueline: So, there is a way to create a viewable web presentation using Revolution Studio? If so, how? Also, if one purchases the Media edition, he gets some goodies that don't seem to be available with the Studio purchase, like the adventure game stuff. So, does one have to purchase both versions to get some of these premade elements? I'm confused and couldn't find the answers to these questions on the Runtime Revolution website. Thank you, Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--t1846212.html#a5047997 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Greg. I don't speak or work for RunRev and there's always the chance I'm just as confused as you, but here's what I understand. Rev Media is differentiated from Revolution in two primary ways: First, as Jacque has already said, you can't deliver your Rev Media products any way but using the free Rev Media Player. Second, Rev Media comes equipped with four (for the moment) templates (more like wizards, actually) that assist you in building specific kinds of applications. You can do other things with Media but its primary thrust is to focus on those template/wizards. Those assistants do NOT come with Revolution, which is intended to be a more general purpose tool. So I think the short answer is that if you wanted to use the Rev Media tool to create, e.g., an adventure game, and then compile the result into a standalone application or deliver it some othe way, you'd need both products. On 6/26/06, GregSmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jacqueline: So, there is a way to create a viewable web presentation using Revolution Studio? If so, how? Also, if one purchases the Media edition, he gets some goodies that don't seem to be available with the Studio purchase, like the adventure game stuff. So, does one have to purchase both versions to get some of these premade elements? I'm confused and couldn't find the answers to these questions on the Runtime Revolution website. Thank you, Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--t1846212.html#a5047997 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- ~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Dan: I really like the wizard idea for putting together an adventure type game, (which I would just use for fun), so I'd have to purchase Media for that. But, I still don't understand how I would use Studio to put together a demonstration type web presentation that would feature watchable, interactive snippets of my educational content, made with Revolution. My goal is to sell these interactive educational video modules, online, but people just don't buy these things without an online sampling that they can experience right away, if you know what I mean. As far as I have been able to assess, one would have to author an entire web application to put actual Runtime examples online, not viewable in a standard browser. But, I'm still confused whether such an application would act as content, like Flash or interactive QuickTime, or whether it is an entire, experiential web application. For convenience, most people offering online training stuff require the kind of portability that Flash or QuickTime offers, so that the content can be viewed in a standard web browser . . . is that even possible with any version of Runtime Revolution? Thanks, Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--t1846212.html#a5051742 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
GregSmith wrote: For convenience, most people offering online training stuff require the kind of portability that Flash or QuickTime offers, so that the content can be viewed in a standard web browser . . . is that even possible with any version of Runtime Revolution? Not per se. Rev doesn't have a browser plug-in, which is what you'd need in order to present stack content. You can write a CGI that takes a picture of a card and returns it to the browser for viewing, but if you want interactivity, that method doesn't work very well. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Jacqueline: That's too bad. So, really there are no Runtime Revolution products or extensions or 3rd party products made specifically for delivering multimedia content over the internet. Seems like a natural fit for a product like Runtime Revolution and its rich use of all media types, coupled with all the other database integration stuff. As an aside, I spent the last four days scouring the internet for THE multimedia authoring package designed to deliver content over the internet . . . , (it's been a long time since I looked last, so I expected the marketplace to be bursting with such applications), and you know what . . . it doesn't exist, not for the Mac, anyway. Now I know all about Adobe's line of products, (formerly Macromedia's) and LiveStage Pro and EXedia QTI, and non of these really is specifically tailored for internet delivery of multimedia content of the kind Revolution is capable of making. Perhaps some of the Revolution programming experts out there should take advantage of this obvious industry oversight. I think the days for distributing such content, offline, to the masses, have pretty much evaporated. And, sorry to say, I think Adobe has monopolized the market for producing tools for the distribution of online multimedia content. I just don't want to play monopoly anymore. Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--t1846212.html#a5056366 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
GregSmith wrote: So, really there are no Runtime Revolution products or extensions or 3rd party products made specifically for delivering multimedia content over the internet. The Internet is not necessarily the Web. There are sometimes good reasons to deploy stuff specifically within a browser window, but deploying stacks over the Internet to your own custom browser is a snap with Rev: Beyond the Browser Rediscovering the Role of the Desktop in a Net-centric World http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Recently, GregSmith wrote: So, really there are no Runtime Revolution products or extensions or 3rd party products made specifically for delivering multimedia content over the internet. Actually, you can deliver any Revolution content over the Internet using a single line of code: go url http://www.myserver.com/mycoolstack.rev; This loads a stack from the 'net almost as if you had launched it from your desktop. The difference is, the stack doesn't appear within the confines of a Web browser. If your audience has a player of some sort (whether it be Runtime's player or something custom that you build) they can view your Internet delivered stacks. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia Design - E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: http://www.tactilemedia.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Greg, I also was looking for this feature--first in SuperCard. But if you think about it, something like Flash requires a multi-megabyte download and install plugin for your browser. You can accomplish the same by having your users run web-based stacks from a rev app on their hard-drive. You can also use Rev for cgi's to deliver dynamic html pages, such presenting information from a database or using a javascript templates to create on the fly interactive pages... I guess the point is instead of worrying what Rev can't do, try looking at what it can accomplish. If you need a flashy animation web app, try flash. cheers, tm OOOh, before I forget. OpenOffice has a decent presentation component that can save as flash files (no audio, though) ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Richard: When you say a snap, what you mean by snap and what I may understand you to mean could easily be 2 different things. I did look for examples of how to do what you are describing by searching the Revolution site and Google, but came up empty-handed. Does this kind of snap involve all sorts of CGI, PHP, XML or other acronym-laced procedures, the likes of which I run from at the earliest opportunity? Or, is it easy like drag and drop stuff without writing a single line of code. I just love it when advertisements reassure me with statements like that. Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--t1846212.html#a5057090 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Richard: Oh, and in my quest for the perfect, easy, to the point, no programming web authoring environment, I came across Apple's Keynote 3. Now, although this is not Revolution by any stretch of the imagination, it contains a lot of animated pizzazz and interactivity which is perfectly acceptable for web demonstrations of software functionality. Why, when reading the appropriate forum posts, I even came across a post by an old HyperCard user and author who was hoping this product might evolve into something HyperCard-like in the future. Certainly it could. Keynote 3 looked fun and functional, just watch the demonstration that ships with the package, (you can try out Keynote 3 if you have a current version of iLife 06). I know it is not the cup of tea for the hardened programmer. Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--t1846212.html#a5057186 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
GregSmith wrote: When you say a snap, what you mean by snap and what I may understand you to mean could easily be 2 different things. I did look for examples of how to do what you are describing by searching the Revolution site and Google, but came up empty-handed. Did you read the article I referenced? Also, the Open Directory entry for Transcript has some links to examples, like these: http://ddm.geo.umass.edu/ http://reactorlab.net/intro/tools.htm And then there's the RevPlayer, and RevNet, which is installed with Revolution in Development-Plugins-GoRevNet Does this kind of snap involve all sorts of CGI, PHP, XML or other acronym-laced procedures, the likes of which I run from at the earliest opportunity? Or, is it easy like drag and drop stuff without writing a single line of code. I just love it when advertisements reassure me with statements like that. Point-and-click authoring in the Revolution line of products is limited to the wizards (which RunRev calls templates) provided with Rev Media. I trust their player makes it easy to deploy these online, but to be honest I build mostly standalones myself so I haven't yet looked at the Player. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Richard: Thanks for all the links, and I do agree with your thesis about internet apps. But, from the standpoint of selling software training modules, the two most important issues that the seller must face are trust and familiarity, coming from and directed to their potential customers. Users have been trained, by continual exposure, to trust web-based transactions, standard plug-ins like QuickTime and Flash, conducted and experienced in standard browser environments. Remove them from this trusted commerce environment and you will probably lose many sales. Yet, from a purely theoretical viewpoint, not all content or sales environments are best served by what the browser environment has to offer, either. So, for the Revolution author who wants to take advantage of all of the authoring prowess of Revolution, yet wants to also enjoy the added benefit of regular sales transactions, he or she might be best served by a compromise in the form of a standard browser plug-in, which fully displays all of the functionality of a Revolution stack . . . or, better yet, a translator which exports the fully functional Revolution stack into a format like Flash or QuickTime. I'd sure be tempted to lay down a cool 300 bucks if such things were already included in the Revolution Studio package. Greg Smith -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--t1846212.html#a5058145 Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
GregSmith wrote: So, for the Revolution author who wants to take advantage of all of the authoring prowess of Revolution, yet wants to also enjoy the added benefit of regular sales transactions he or she might be best served by a compromise in the form of a standard browser plug-in, which fully displays all of the functionality of a Revolution stack Check the list archives. :) The short form is that the browser plugin wars were won by Macromedia more than half a decade ago. If you need Flash it's not expensive and there are a great many templates, courseware packages, etc. The issue with making yet-another-browser-plugin is that while bean counters like how it reads on paper, users and their IT staff quickly learn that it's no different from a custom browser: they still need to download and install some engine to drive it all. Only Flash is pre-installed -- a good route to go with if you need the in-browser experience. . . . or, better yet, a translator which exports the fully functional Revolution stack into a format like Flash or QuickTime. Or even Java, which may be a closer fit in a lot of ways, and there's a lot of example code on generating byte code. Yeah, I'd like this option for some things. There may even be a feature request filed in Bugzilla for this. I wonder how many votes it's gotten. In the meantime, for Web deployment it's hard to beat Flash, just as for desktop applications it's hard to beat Rev. I suppose it'd be ideal to have one tool that does everything optimally, but since both tools are pretty cheap and (at least in my work) it's rare that I'd want to make the same thing for web deployment and as a desktop app, maybe two tools isn't a deal breaker for either. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
On Jun 26, 2006, at 6:25 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: . . . or, better yet, a translator which exports the fully functional Revolution stack into a format like Flash or QuickTime. Err, friends, I don't want to be one to spoil the fun but nor quicktime nor flash supports the feature-set of Rev. That conversion is not only impossible, it's unthinkable, it's like trying to pass a pineapple to a machine and expecting iPods at the other side. Quicktime is a media container. Flash is a interactive media tool. Rev is a computer language. Flash has a kind of programming language, Quicktime has some kind of interactivity and Rev do media well, but the similarities end there. It would be a wiser path to build a tool in Rev that would pick your content and generate flash or quicktime. andre ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
If I'm not mistaken, this is something lots of folks have been asking for for a long time. Maybe it lies in 'the road ahead'? Judy On Mon, 26 Jun 2006, GregSmith wrote: Jacqueline: That's too bad. So, really there are no Runtime Revolution products or extensions or 3rd party products made specifically for delivering multimedia content over the internet. Seems like a natural fit for a product like Runtime Revolution and its rich use of all media types, coupled with all the other database integration stuff. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Richard, While I really liked your referenced article, and, indeed, agree substantially with its many good points, the problem remains with the vast legions of folk who don't know the internet from the web, http from ftp (what?!??) and/or, in the case of a bunch of general education and upper-division college students I had last Fall, the grammatic/structural difference between an email address and a URL; thus, that problem being that NOT being able to deploy stacks in a web browser really limits the internet deployment of your stacks. :-( Serious bummer... And we won't even go into the folks who think that multimedia EXCLUSIVELY = web content. Judy On Mon, 26 Jun 2006, Richard Gaskin wrote: The Internet is not necessarily the Web. There are sometimes good reasons to deploy stuff specifically within a browser window, but deploying stacks over the Internet to your own custom browser is a snap with Rev: Beyond the Browser Rediscovering the Role of the Desktop in a Net-centric World http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Scott, Right, of course, but the problem still remains in a Windows world that, if your web content requires downloading some program that nobody's ever heard of, you've probably just cut-off 80%+ of your potential audience. Maybe even 90%+ (Many will be precluded by lacking permissions on non-owned machines and owners may well balk at downloading something that could well be the Prelude to a DriveWipe). Isn't this reminiscent of the whole problem of Rev relying upon QuickTime in a QuickTime-hostile Windows world? Judy On Mon, 26 Jun 2006, Scott Rossi wrote: Recently, GregSmith wrote: So, really there are no Runtime Revolution products or extensions or 3rd party products made specifically for delivering multimedia content over the internet. Actually, you can deliver any Revolution content over the Internet using a single line of code: go url http://www.myserver.com/mycoolstack.rev; This loads a stack from the 'net almost as if you had launched it from your desktop. The difference is, the stack doesn't appear within the confines of a Web browser. If your audience has a player of some sort (whether it be Runtime's player or something custom that you build) they can view your Internet delivered stacks. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia Design - E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: http://www.tactilemedia.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?
Greg Smith wrote: I've been intimidated by the full blown Revolution package and now feel a little more comfortable, especially in the area of the pocket book, since Revolution Media has been introduced. I'm mainly interested in using this product to produce educational training material that features a lot of slideshow material and captured QuickTime sessions with software demonstration. Of course, the more interactivity, the better. But, is deployment through the Runtime player the only method for viewing and distribution? Can a website equipped with a plug-in manage to demonstrate some of the interactive content that I intend to produce with Revolution Media? For Media, yes, you need to deploy on the Player. There is no browser plug-in, so the Player is pretty much your only option. This is, in fact, the main differentiation between Media and the other editions. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media
On Feb 15, 2006, at 8:43 PM, Charles Hartman wrote: -- except apparently it sort of doesn't. I got from Rev a message inviting me to buy an upgrade pack for my Dreamcard. I wrote back in puzzlement because I'd thought just what you say. The return message points out that the DC up-pack is good for a year while the Media purchase -- for the same price -- is one time only, and suggests that the two have different features. But the disappearance of Dreamcard from the Rev website (unless I've gone blind) makes this hard to comprehend in detail. I think I have gone blind. Dreamcard is there on the site at http://downloads.runrev.com/dreamcard Sorry. What misled me is that Dreamcard is missing from all comparisons among Rev versions, which certainly underscores the idea that it's on the way out. Charles ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media
On Feb 15, 2006, at 8:36 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can anyone enlighten me on Revolution Media? Looks like a great product for a great price. I'm assuming it replaces Dreamcard. -- except apparently it sort of doesn't. I got from Rev a message inviting me to buy an upgrade pack for my Dreamcard. I wrote back in puzzlement because I'd thought just what you say. The return message points out that the DC up-pack is good for a year while the Media purchase -- for the same price -- is one time only, and suggests that the two have different features. But the disappearance of Dreamcard from the Rev website (unless I've gone blind) makes this hard to comprehend in detail. I suspect the website is still in the process of being brought up to date, so I'll check back in a day or two. Charles ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Revolution Media
-- except apparently it sort of doesn't. I got from Rev a message inviting me to buy an upgrade pack for my Dreamcard. I wrote back in puzzlement because I'd thought just what you say. The return message points out that the DC up-pack is good for a year while the Media purchase -- for the same price -- is one time only, and suggests that the two have different features. But the disappearance of Dreamcard from the Rev website (unless I've gone blind) makes this hard to comprehend in detail. (Database access not available in Revolution Media) is right in the middle of the features page. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software, Inc Joining Worlds of Information Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network http://www.paradigmasoft.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media
On Feb 15, 2006, at 9:09 PM, Lynn Fredricks wrote: -- except apparently it sort of doesn't. I got from Rev a message inviting me to buy an upgrade pack for my Dreamcard. I wrote back in puzzlement because I'd thought just what you say. The return message points out that the DC up-pack is good for a year while the Media purchase -- for the same price -- is one time only, and suggests that the two have different features. But the disappearance of Dreamcard from the Rev website (unless I've gone blind) makes this hard to comprehend in detail. (Database access not available in Revolution Media) is right in the middle of the features page. Yes, but I don't know what that means. *Oracle* (etc) access isn't available in Dreamcard either; but I access my MySQL stuff (using Blue Mango's libDatabase) just fine. Charles ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Revolution Media
(Database access not available in Revolution Media) is right in the middle of the features page. Yes, but I don't know what that means. *Oracle* (etc) access isn't available in Dreamcard either; but I access my MySQL stuff (using Blue Mango's libDatabase) just fine. It's a good idea to look here as well: http://revmedia.runrev.com/look_inside.php Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software, Inc Joining Worlds of Information Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network http://www.paradigmasoft.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Revolution Media
At what in particular? I don't see anything here that addresses this question. It's been a long day and I'm tired; what am I missing? Charles On Feb 15, 2006, at 9:24 PM, Lynn Fredricks wrote: (Database access not available in Revolution Media) is right in the middle of the features page. Yes, but I don't know what that means. *Oracle* (etc) access isn't available in Dreamcard either; but I access my MySQL stuff (using Blue Mango's libDatabase) just fine. It's a good idea to look here as well: http://revmedia.runrev.com/look_inside.php Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software, Inc Joining Worlds of Information Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network http://www.paradigmasoft.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
