Re: Revolution Media 4.x and Revolution Player 3.x

[Luis]

Hiya,

The Player makes distribution easier, as in there not being a need to  
download and install revMedia in order to see the stacks: Slaps the  
stacks onto a USB stick with the Player and can show it off to anyone  
without having to get them to 'have to' install revMedia.


Cheers,

Luis.


On 12 Nov 2009, at 20:32, Richmond Mathewson wrote:


Jan Schenkel wrote:

With revMedia 4.0 being free, why would we still need a Player?
The whole idea of giving revMedia away for free, is to let  
everyone share in the fun - running stacks, deploying them in  
webpages and letting others take them apart without the ability to  
password-protect your scripts.
Don't panic, revStudio and revEnterprise can still password- 
protect scripts and these stacks will work just fine in revMedia.  
But revMedia is about sharing with the rest of the world, and  
getting more people to try out the revPlatform for themselves.




I can think of one reason why one might want a Player:

Imagine a cash-strapped teacher designing a stack with revMedia;

they might think it a bit too much to expect students to go through
the whole jingbang of registering for revMedia, downloading it
and installing it a bit of a clunky way to deliver a "quick-n-dirty"
educational "media-bite".

this might also be applied in situations where there are a number of
students with computers who do not have internet access (this, oddly
enough, is always overlooked when these arguments come up).

A Player/Runner + stack will have less of a footprint than revMedia
+ stack

As an advocate of equipping the under-privileged in this world with
old computers I believe that a Player/Runner is essential; especially
one that will run stacks on forms of Linux.

-- 
-

To personalise this I would like to point out that, while I own
Rev Studio 4 it does not work on my Pentium 3s running Ubuntu 5.10;
nor does revMedia 4.

I have yet to find out how standalones made with 4 'do' on these  
computers;


It may well be that they are just too RAM-hungry to function;

a Player/Runner might solve this problem.
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
subscription preferences:

http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media 4.x and Revolution Player 3.x

[Jan Schenkel]

--- On Thu, 11/12/09, Dom  wrote:
> Jan Schenkel  wrote:
> 
> > With revMedia 4.0 being free, why would we still need
> a Player?
> 
> Agreed -- but with a caveat:
> you talk of persons who are computer-litterate...
> 
> Think about a person, scared with computers, to which you
> give a
> stack... and ?
> a whole development package??
> 
> Or a classroom, as Richmond says!
> 
> Maybe, also, the question is beginning to go obsolete --
> who, nowadays,
> still gives stacks to other persons? on a disc*, perhaps?
> 
> A bunch of years ago, I put some HyperCard (and MetaCard)
> stacks on the
> web, along with a "Player" or StackRunner (before the epoch
> where an
> official one was available)
> 
> It seems to that RunRev is going to evolve to the net --
> and it's good
> :-)
> Sure, with a revlet immediately available on the net, there
> is no need
> for a Player ;-)
> 
> * Apple recently clarified the difference between a "disc"
> and a "disk"
> ;-)
> 

While I agree with you in priciple thata a pure player environment is safest 
for computer users without technical knowledge, revMedia is not that different 
from the original HyperCard setup. I don't think double-clicking or going to 
the File menu to Open a stack, is that difficult to grasp.
Now for deployment, a revlet is fine in an internet-connected world - and you 
can even send people a zip archive with an html page and a revlet that they can 
run offline, as long as the have the revWeb plugin. And you can still buy 
revStudio/revEnterprise if you want to build standalone applications.

Jan Schenkel
=
Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution


=
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La 
Rochefoucauld)


  
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media 4.x and Revolution Player 3.x

[Dom]

Jan Schenkel  wrote:

> With revMedia 4.0 being free, why would we still need a Player?

Agreed -- but with a caveat:
you talk of persons who are computer-litterate...

Think about a person, scared with computers, to which you give a
stack... and ?
a whole development package??

Or a classroom, as Richmond says!

Maybe, also, the question is beginning to go obsolete -- who, nowadays,
still gives stacks to other persons? on a disc*, perhaps?

A bunch of years ago, I put some HyperCard (and MetaCard) stacks on the
web, along with a "Player" or StackRunner (before the epoch where an
official one was available)

It seems to that RunRev is going to evolve to the net -- and it's good
:-)
Sure, with a revlet immediately available on the net, there is no need
for a Player ;-)

* Apple recently clarified the difference between a "disc" and a "disk"
;-)


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media 4.x and Revolution Player 3.x

[Richmond Mathewson]

Jan Schenkel wrote:

With revMedia 4.0 being free, why would we still need a Player?
The whole idea of giving revMedia away for free, is to let everyone share in 
the fun - running stacks, deploying them in webpages and letting others take 
them apart without the ability to password-protect your scripts.
Don't panic, revStudio and revEnterprise can still password-protect scripts and 
these stacks will work just fine in revMedia. But revMedia is about sharing 
with the rest of the world, and getting more people to try out the revPlatform 
for themselves.

  

I can think of one reason why one might want a Player:

Imagine a cash-strapped teacher designing a stack with revMedia;

they might think it a bit too much to expect students to go through
the whole jingbang of registering for revMedia, downloading it
and installing it a bit of a clunky way to deliver a "quick-n-dirty"
educational "media-bite".

this might also be applied in situations where there are a number of
students with computers who do not have internet access (this, oddly
enough, is always overlooked when these arguments come up).

A Player/Runner + stack will have less of a footprint than revMedia
+ stack

As an advocate of equipping the under-privileged in this world with
old computers I believe that a Player/Runner is essential; especially
one that will run stacks on forms of Linux.

---
To personalise this I would like to point out that, while I own
Rev Studio 4 it does not work on my Pentium 3s running Ubuntu 5.10;
nor does revMedia 4.

I have yet to find out how standalones made with 4 'do' on these computers;

It may well be that they are just too RAM-hungry to function;

a Player/Runner might solve this problem.
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media 4.x and Revolution Player 3.x

[Jan Schenkel]

With revMedia 4.0 being free, why would we still need a Player?
The whole idea of giving revMedia away for free, is to let everyone share in 
the fun - running stacks, deploying them in webpages and letting others take 
them apart without the ability to password-protect your scripts.
Don't panic, revStudio and revEnterprise can still password-protect scripts and 
these stacks will work just fine in revMedia. But revMedia is about sharing 
with the rest of the world, and getting more people to try out the revPlatform 
for themselves.

Jan Schenkel
=
Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution


=
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La 
Rochefoucauld)


--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Dom  wrote:

> From: Dom 
> Subject: Revolution Media 4.x and Revolution Player 3.x
> To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:38 AM
> As a former user of Revolution Media
> 3.x, I used Revolution Player to
> run stacks without launching the development
> environment...
> 
> I am wondering if I still can use the old Revolution Player
> (3.x) to run
> stacks created with the new Revolution Media 4.x?
> 
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


  
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Wolfgang Bereuter]

On 29.06.2006, at 23:06, Chipp Walters wrote:


No argument here. Microsoft's business practice is deplorable...no,
criminal.
depends on your point of view. How many people has this business  
practice killed? How man companies? How man lifes and human been  
destroyed? How many bilions dollars have we all paid for the  
strategic incompatiblility. How many bilions for expansive licenses,  
etc, etc, etc



Mean-spirited as well. You know a corporate culture like
theirs is always driven top-down. Makes me wonder what Gates is REALLY
going to do with his billions marked for charity.

Answer is easy: money! And politics and did I mentioned: money?


Hmm, perhaps a spot
in heaven IS FOR SALE?

No! Thanks god, its not availiable for money.
But he wont need that, when he will rebirth as a Pinguin, because  
Pinguins dont need money...


regards
wolfgang bereuter
--
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See 

traips! photolearning trainingsmaps
...
http://www.traips.org
http://www.internettrainer.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
Tel: ++43/1/ 479 6410



___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Dan Shafer]

Well, I'm not sure I agree with all of your analysis, Devin.

Browser masking certainly results in under-reporting of browsers like Safari
that can (or even must) masquerade as others, but you can't mask the OS very
easily.

On 6/30/06, Devin Asay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



On Jun 30, 2006, at 1:20 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> To me, the "units sold" and "installed base" numbers are guidelines
> but not
> real indicators of a particular system's real penetration which is
> measured
> in something I'd call "units in daily use by humans."  That figure
> can't be
> obtained, of course, but one figure that CAN be obtained is the mix of
> computer operating systems visiting various Web sites with logs
> that can
> track the OS in use.
>
> Given that a large majority of machines in human use at any given
> time are
> navigating the Internet, that would be at least a useful
> measurement of the
> degree of actual market penetration. There are a LOT of WIndows
> machines
> (and, I'm sure, old Macs as well) being used for doorstops,
> paperweights,
> and lying in landfills and other states of disuse.
>
> By that standard, OS X and Linux run 3-5% each and Windows at just
> about
> 90%. The stats I find most reliable are these:
>
> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

But even these stats are problematic. I found it curious that Safari
didn't even appear on the list, while Opera does. The problem is that
Safari, along with some other browsers, masks its identity so that it
can access some poorly written sites that require a specific browser
(usually IE for Windows.) So not only is OS X underrepresented on
sites like this, IE's presence may be exaggerated.

Devin


Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution





--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"

From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Devin Asay]

On Jun 30, 2006, at 1:20 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

To me, the "units sold" and "installed base" numbers are guidelines  
but not
real indicators of a particular system's real penetration which is  
measured
in something I'd call "units in daily use by humans."  That figure  
can't be

obtained, of course, but one figure that CAN be obtained is the mix of
computer operating systems visiting various Web sites with logs  
that can

track the OS in use.

Given that a large majority of machines in human use at any given  
time are
navigating the Internet, that would be at least a useful  
measurement of the
degree of actual market penetration. There are a LOT of WIndows  
machines
(and, I'm sure, old Macs as well) being used for doorstops,  
paperweights,

and lying in landfills and other states of disuse.

By that standard, OS X and Linux run 3-5% each and Windows at just  
about

90%. The stats I find most reliable are these:

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp


But even these stats are problematic. I found it curious that Safari  
didn't even appear on the list, while Opera does. The problem is that  
Safari, along with some other browsers, masks its identity so that it  
can access some poorly written sites that require a specific browser  
(usually IE for Windows.) So not only is OS X underrepresented on  
sites like this, IE's presence may be exaggerated.


Devin


Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Dan Shafer]

To me, the "units sold" and "installed base" numbers are guidelines but not
real indicators of a particular system's real penetration which is measured
in something I'd call "units in daily use by humans."  That figure can't be
obtained, of course, but one figure that CAN be obtained is the mix of
computer operating systems visiting various Web sites with logs that can
track the OS in use.

Given that a large majority of machines in human use at any given time are
navigating the Internet, that would be at least a useful measurement of the
degree of actual market penetration. There are a LOT of WIndows machines
(and, I'm sure, old Macs as well) being used for doorstops, paperweights,
and lying in landfills and other states of disuse.

By that standard, OS X and Linux run 3-5% each and Windows at just about
90%. The stats I find most reliable are these:

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp



On 6/29/06, Chipp Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On 6/29/06, Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Whether or not one agrees with the two dozen governments around the
> world who've found Microsoft guilty of sweeping anti-trust violations,
> however that market share was acquired there's no denying it exists.

No argument here. Microsoft's business practice is deplorable...no,
criminal. Mean-spirited as well. You know a corporate culture like
theirs is always driven top-down. Makes me wonder what Gates is REALLY
going to do with his billions marked for charity. Hmm, perhaps a spot
in heaven IS FOR SALE?

-Chipp
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution





--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"

From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Chipp Walters]

On 6/29/06, Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Whether or not one agrees with the two dozen governments around the
world who've found Microsoft guilty of sweeping anti-trust violations,
however that market share was acquired there's no denying it exists.


No argument here. Microsoft's business practice is deplorable...no,
criminal. Mean-spirited as well. You know a corporate culture like
theirs is always driven top-down. Makes me wonder what Gates is REALLY
going to do with his billions marked for charity. Hmm, perhaps a spot
in heaven IS FOR SALE?

-Chipp
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Richard Gaskin]

Chipp Walters wrote:
> In anycase, I seriously doubt either you or Stephen can
> make a real case for the Mac having a 20% marketshare

Maybe Stephen did intend that, but read it differently.

Speaking only for myself, I've never made such a claim about total 
market share, nor would I:  The largest market share based on unit sales 
that I've ever seen for Apple was never higher than 10%, more than twice 
the highest figure since Steve's been back.


Remember, I'm the one who's been lobbying for more XP-native features 
like native-looking menus instead of OS X-specific things like drawers. 
I know which customers pay my bills.  :)


Whether or not one agrees with the two dozen governments around the 
world who've found Microsoft guilty of sweeping anti-trust violations, 
however that market share was acquired there's no denying it exists.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Chipp Walters]

Yes, but that 84% includes ALL OS'es. Whereas Stephen said:

"*I figure once you whittle down all the point-of-sale, CNC drilling
machines, and ATMs the actual HUMAN used market share of Macs vs PC
is more around 20%"

The 84% doesn't suppose the other 16% is for Macs, quite the contrary.
As I mentioned, the largest marketshare I could find for Macs was less
than 5%. In anycase, I seriously doubt either you or Stephen can make
a real case for the Mac having a 20% marketshare (though there are
many of us who do wish it had a larger marketshare, if only for the
sake of competition to MS).

-Chipp

On 6/29/06, Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Chipp Walters wrote:

> The smallest marketshare I could find for Windows was 84%

Not too far off the original poster's estimate of 80%.

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[David Brooks]

On Jun 28, 2006, at 11:29 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

OK, so how many of us would be willing to throw, say, a grand at a  
developer
or team to do this project? Delivering a Rev stack/app in DHTML  
would be

such an awesome tool that I'd use it daily.


If a grand means $1,000.00, then I surely would spend at least that  
much.


Dave B.

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Richard Gaskin]

Chipp Walters wrote:


The smallest marketshare I could find for Windows was 84%


Not too far off the original poster's estimate of 80%.

:)

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Chipp Walters]

The smallest marketshare I could find for Windows was 84%, which I
kind of doubt-- IMO it's too small. I'm not too big on 'projections,'
especially the ones about computers. Didn't they predict the end of
computers around 2000 ;-)

Frankly, 58% in 2007 seems laughable. Though I guess if your counting
ALL cellphones, then you could be right..but for that matter shouldn't
we include all GPS systems? And what about those little computers
which control anti-braking on cars? And let's not forget those
microcontrollers they put on every kitchen appiance. Hmm, now we've
got MS down to under 10% market share. Geez, time to buy PUTS on MSFT.
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Richard Gaskin]

Chipp Walters wrote:


On 6/28/06, Stephen Barncard  wrote:


What about the other 20%*?


Funny, the most I could find the Mac had was:

"Currently Apple has a US market share of 4.5 percent and a global
market share of 2.5 percent."

--http://www.andybudd.com/archives/2005/07/apple_market_share/


Mac isn't the only non-Windows system out there.  There are a few 
flavors of UNIX, more than a dozen popular Linux distros, and at least 
one Newton user in Brazil.


This article from about 8 months earlier than the one you cited goes out 
on a limb to suggest that Windows marketshare will not merely continue 
to decline, but rather dramatically to about 58% by 2007, once PDAs, 
cell phones, and other OS environments are taken into account:



Of course those systems aren't running OS X either. :)

This article discusses some of the difficulties in establishing good 
methodologies for measuring marketshare of Linux vs Windows:



And of course there are other factors, like the figures for specific 
markets like education where Macs are reported to have a 
disproportionate showing (some say 14, not anywhere near its peak of 30% 
in 1999 but not bad):



I don't believe unit sales tell the whole story of human usage, esp. 
when you take into account that most non-human-driven computers aren't 
Macs (factory automation and the like; I know one shop where most people 
use Macs and a single floor manager runs 10 Wintel boxes drive 
machinery; in a head count it's 10-to-1 Mac, but in a box count it 
appears even), and one would need to account for system longevity and a 
great many other things to figure out how many actual people are using 
each system.


But while unit sales may be a weak measurement, it's the simplest to 
derive so it's the one most commonly used.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Chipp Walters]

On 6/28/06, Stephen Barncard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



What about the other 20%*?


Funny, the most I could find the Mac had was:

"Currently Apple has a US market share of 4.5 percent and a global
market share of 2.5 percent."

--http://www.andybudd.com/archives/2005/07/apple_market_share/

Guess you could do one of those ads for Apple?
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Peter T. Evensen]

My main point is that it is a plug-in.  I haven't really looked at it's 
capabilities.  The problem is, it requires a plug-in to be installed on the 
user's machine.


At 02:43 PM 6/28/2006, you wrote:

Dear Peter and All,

I would'nt be too negative but two Rebol geeks of my friends could
explain lots about the Rebol IE plug-in (Olivier Auverlot, the writer
of the french's Eyrolles Rebol programmers reference book, and
François Jouen of the "Ecole Pratiques de Hautes-Etudes" institute).
In short, this plug-in is probably not dedicated to be used as a
professional grade tool.


Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588 
___

use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Richard Gaskin]

Andre Garzia wrote:


I work in windows only...

also, REBOL is a very nice language created by one of the guys from  
the AMIGA era... very nice indeed.


But it's not match to Rev when it comes to create desktop apps.


Agreed.  Way back when Rebol was enjoying its 15 minutes of fame I gave 
it a good look, and found that i just didn't look as nice as Rev stuff. 
Part of that is that they didn't double-buffer their windows, so the 
redraws were abysmal; maybe they've fixed that since then.


But overall, aside from a browser plugin I've seen nothing in Rebol that 
couldn't be done in Rev.  And if someone took the time to make a handy 
library (back when I had time on my hands I thought of calling it 
"Revol" ) to provide one-liners for anything Rebol does that isn't 
already a one-liner in Transcript.


When it was the only game in town, Rebol was way cool.  But that was a 
long time ago, and Rev has grown far beyond it


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Andre Garzia]

I work in windows only...

also, REBOL is a very nice language created by one of the guys from  
the AMIGA era... very nice indeed.


But it's not match to Rev when it comes to create desktop apps.

Andre

On Jun 28, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Stephen Barncard wrote:


I thought that point was moot if it installs in 2 seconds!

The problem wiht rebol is that it is yet another plug-in.  The  
reason schools (for example) want web/browser-delivered content is  
that they don't have to go in and touch every workstation.




--
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
subscription preferences:

http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Andre Garzia]

Before switching to Rev I was a REBOL coder, I have very fond  
memories of REBOL...



On Jun 28, 2006, at 8:58 AM, Bob Warren wrote:


Dan Shafer wrote:
>
Delivering a Rev stack/app in DHTML would be
such an awesome tool that I'd use it daily.


If you chappies discussing this thread (most of which is above my  
head) think that comparison would be of any value, I suggest you  
visit -


http://www.rebol.com

- to see what Carl Sassenrath is doing. Click on the following link:

New REBOL Browser Plugin - New!
New capabilities! Plus support for Firefox/Mozilla/Etc. and Opera

Further information on this development can be found under Carl's  
Blog entitled "Browser Plugin Update".


The Windows only version is very much older, and you can see a demo  
of it (including the fully automatic installation of the plugin) at  
my own site:


http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/vector_graphics_in_revolution.htm

Scroll down to the picture of my sister-in-law's knitting machine  
and you will find the instructions for the demo:


"The above shows a Rebol program (script) running via a plugin in  
the Internet Explorer/altBrowser. It's a slideshow with 10 raster  
images. If you want to see how this works in the Internet Explorer  
using a PC (and also in an altBrowser stack once you acquire it),  
simply navigate to http://www.howsoft.com/photos for a demo. Rebol  
will install its plugin automatically (2 seconds)**, and then the  
pictures will be downloaded. Then, you can see the slideshow in the  
browser."


[** In the old days - Win XP SP1 - it used to take about 2 seconds  
to install this plugin automatically, but now - with SP2 - you have  
to give it permission. Nevertheless, it is very quick. What takes  
longer is the download of the photos for the demo, but this has  
nothing to do with the Rebol plugin itself.]



As far as I can see, this development is relevant to what Rev may  
or may not decide to implement in various ways, both technically  
and also in terms of keeping up with "what's out there". In short,  
just about any program written in Rebol can be run - with no hassle  
- in the Windows Internet Explorer. The same facility for Firefox  
etc. is still in alpha, but will probably be ready this year.  
Everybody speaks about Java, Flash, etc., but nobody seems to be  
really aware of what Rebol are up to. Also, as far as I can see, my  
little demo is highly relevant to the Web presentation of media.


Just thought I'd mention it.

Regards,
Bob





___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
subscription preferences:

http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Stephen Barncard]

I thought that point was moot if it installs in 2 seconds!

The problem wiht rebol is that it is yet another plug-in.  The 
reason schools (for example) want web/browser-delivered content is 
that they don't have to go in and touch every workstation.




--
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Stephen Barncard]

facility for Firefox etc. is still in alpha, but will probably be 
ready this year. Everybody speaks about Java, Flash, etc., but 
nobody seems to be really aware of what Rebol are up to. Also, as 
far as I can see, my little demo is highly relevant to the Web 
presentation of media.



Yeah, I could use something like this.. cool.

except it's moot (again) for Mac users. At least Java Flash, etc. is 
cross-platform. I really get tired of hearing about when 'next big 
things' for the web turn out to be platform specific. Java and Flash 
were inclusive from day one. Late deployment usually means a 
stripped-down version 'for the rest of us'. Witness the fact that 
Skype has been around for 2 years, their PC version can do video, but 
not the Mac.


What about the other 20%*?
Can Rebol be done for the 'other side'? Otherwise it's not very 
useful on the web..a web app should be universal at least for the 
top 2 client OS's.



From the Rebol page: "REBOL Technologies now provides the 
REBOL/Plugin, a new web browser plugin module for Microsoft Internet 
Explorer, Mozilla, Firefox, and other browsers (currently running on 
Windows OS, but we plan to support OSX, Linux, BSD and others in the 
future)."


Sounds wonderful, but again we have promises of 'in the future' - how 
can anyone build a site built on intentionally ignoring 20% of one's 
potential audience?


Well, hell this is a WEB product - why isn't it working on the Mac 
now? This "Windows first" stuff doesn't work for the web.  So my 
question to Carl Sassenrath, the creator of REBOL is: When, if ever?


fyi this guy did work for Apple at one point.




*I figure once you whittle down all the point-of-sale, CNC drilling 
machines, and ATMs the actual HUMAN used market share of Macs vs PC 
is more around 20%




sqb
--
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Pierre Sahores]

Dear Peter and All,

I would'nt be too negative but two Rebol geeks of my friends could  
explain lots about the Rebol IE plug-in (Olivier Auverlot, the writer  
of the french's Eyrolles Rebol programmers reference book, and  
François Jouen of the "Ecole Pratiques de Hautes-Etudes" institute).  
In short, this plug-in is probably not dedicated to be used as a  
professional grade tool.


Best,

The problem wiht rebol is that it is yet another plug-in.  The  
reason schools (for example) want web/browser-delivered content is  
that they don't have to go in and touch every workstation.


If Rev could deliver a stack via DHTML/AJAX, that would be the ideal!

I was even pondering writing my own Rev tool to create a Rev stack  
and an DHTML/AJAX version of the same thing.


At 01:58 PM 6/28/2006, you wrote:

Dan Shafer wrote:
>
Delivering a Rev stack/app in DHTML would be
such an awesome tool that I'd use it daily.


If you chappies discussing this thread (most of which is above my  
head) think that comparison would be of any value, I suggest you  
visit -


http://www.rebol.com

- to see what Carl Sassenrath is doing. Click on the following link:

New REBOL Browser Plugin - New!
New capabilities! Plus support for Firefox/Mozilla/Etc. and Opera

Further information on this development can be found under Carl's  
Blog entitled "Browser Plugin Update".


The Windows only version is very much older, and you can see a  
demo of it (including the fully automatic installation of the  
plugin) at my own site:


http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/vector_graphics_in_revolution.htm

Scroll down to the picture of my sister-in-law's knitting machine  
and you will find the instructions for the demo:


"The above shows a Rebol program (script) running via a plugin in  
the Internet Explorer/altBrowser. It's a slideshow with 10 raster  
images. If you want to see how this works in the Internet Explorer  
using a PC (and also in an altBrowser stack once you acquire it),  
simply navigate to http://www.howsoft.com/photos for a demo. Rebol  
will install its plugin automatically (2 seconds)**, and then the  
pictures will be downloaded. Then, you can see the slideshow in  
the browser."


[** In the old days - Win XP SP1 - it used to take about 2 seconds  
to install this plugin automatically, but now - with SP2 - you  
have to give it permission. Nevertheless, it is very quick. What  
takes longer is the download of the photos for the demo, but this  
has nothing to do with the Rebol plugin itself.]



As far as I can see, this development is relevant to what Rev may  
or may not decide to implement in various ways, both technically  
and also in terms of keeping up with "what's out there". In short,  
just about any program written in Rebol can be run - with no  
hassle - in the Windows Internet Explorer. The same facility for  
Firefox etc. is still in alpha, but will probably be ready this  
year. Everybody speaks about Java, Flash, etc., but nobody seems  
to be really aware of what Rebol are up to. Also, as far as I can  
see, my little demo is highly relevant to the Web presentation of  
media.


Just thought I'd mention it.

Regards,
Bob





___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
subscription preferences:

http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
subscription preferences:

http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



--
Pierre Sahores
www.sahores-conseil.com


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Peter T. Evensen]

The problem wiht rebol is that it is yet another plug-in.  The reason 
schools (for example) want web/browser-delivered content is that they don't 
have to go in and touch every workstation.


If Rev could deliver a stack via DHTML/AJAX, that would be the ideal!

I was even pondering writing my own Rev tool to create a Rev stack and an 
DHTML/AJAX version of the same thing.


At 01:58 PM 6/28/2006, you wrote:

Dan Shafer wrote:
>
Delivering a Rev stack/app in DHTML would be
such an awesome tool that I'd use it daily.


If you chappies discussing this thread (most of which is above my head) 
think that comparison would be of any value, I suggest you visit -


http://www.rebol.com

- to see what Carl Sassenrath is doing. Click on the following link:

New REBOL Browser Plugin - New!
New capabilities! Plus support for Firefox/Mozilla/Etc. and Opera

Further information on this development can be found under Carl's Blog 
entitled "Browser Plugin Update".


The Windows only version is very much older, and you can see a demo of it 
(including the fully automatic installation of the plugin) at my own site:


http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/vector_graphics_in_revolution.htm

Scroll down to the picture of my sister-in-law's knitting machine and you 
will find the instructions for the demo:


"The above shows a Rebol program (script) running via a plugin in the 
Internet Explorer/altBrowser. It's a slideshow with 10 raster images. If 
you want to see how this works in the Internet Explorer using a PC (and 
also in an altBrowser stack once you acquire it), simply navigate to 
http://www.howsoft.com/photos for a demo. Rebol will install its plugin 
automatically (2 seconds)**, and then the pictures will be downloaded. 
Then, you can see the slideshow in the browser."


[** In the old days - Win XP SP1 - it used to take about 2 seconds to 
install this plugin automatically, but now - with SP2 - you have to give 
it permission. Nevertheless, it is very quick. What takes longer is the 
download of the photos for the demo, but this has nothing to do with the 
Rebol plugin itself.]



As far as I can see, this development is relevant to what Rev may or may 
not decide to implement in various ways, both technically and also in 
terms of keeping up with "what's out there". In short, just about any 
program written in Rebol can be run - with no hassle - in the Windows 
Internet Explorer. The same facility for Firefox etc. is still in alpha, 
but will probably be ready this year. Everybody speaks about Java, Flash, 
etc., but nobody seems to be really aware of what Rebol are up to. Also, 
as far as I can see, my little demo is highly relevant to the Web 
presentation of media.


Just thought I'd mention it.

Regards,
Bob





___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:

http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
314-629-5248 or 888-682-4588 



___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Bob Warren]

Dan Shafer wrote:
>
Delivering a Rev stack/app in DHTML would be
such an awesome tool that I'd use it daily.


If you chappies discussing this thread (most of which is above my head) 
think that comparison would be of any value, I suggest you visit -


http://www.rebol.com

- to see what Carl Sassenrath is doing. Click on the following link:

New REBOL Browser Plugin - New!
New capabilities! Plus support for Firefox/Mozilla/Etc. and Opera

Further information on this development can be found under Carl's Blog 
entitled "Browser Plugin Update".


The Windows only version is very much older, and you can see a demo of 
it (including the fully automatic installation of the plugin) at my own 
site:


http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/vector_graphics_in_revolution.htm

Scroll down to the picture of my sister-in-law's knitting machine and 
you will find the instructions for the demo:


"The above shows a Rebol program (script) running via a plugin in the 
Internet Explorer/altBrowser. It's a slideshow with 10 raster images. If 
you want to see how this works in the Internet Explorer using a PC (and 
also in an altBrowser stack once you acquire it), simply navigate to 
http://www.howsoft.com/photos for a demo. Rebol will install its plugin 
automatically (2 seconds)**, and then the pictures will be downloaded. 
Then, you can see the slideshow in the browser."


[** In the old days - Win XP SP1 - it used to take about 2 seconds to 
install this plugin automatically, but now - with SP2 - you have to give 
it permission. Nevertheless, it is very quick. What takes longer is the 
download of the photos for the demo, but this has nothing to do with the 
Rebol plugin itself.]



As far as I can see, this development is relevant to what Rev may or may 
not decide to implement in various ways, both technically and also in 
terms of keeping up with "what's out there". In short, just about any 
program written in Rebol can be run - with no hassle - in the Windows 
Internet Explorer. The same facility for Firefox etc. is still in alpha, 
but will probably be ready this year. Everybody speaks about Java, 
Flash, etc., but nobody seems to be really aware of what Rebol are up 
to. Also, as far as I can see, my little demo is highly relevant to the 
Web presentation of media.


Just thought I'd mention it.

Regards,
Bob





___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Dan Shafer]

OK, so how many of us would be willing to throw, say, a grand at a developer
or team to do this project? Delivering a Rev stack/app in DHTML would be
such an awesome tool that I'd use it daily.

On 6/27/06, Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


GregSmith wrote:

> And all of the linkages are already in place through AJAX for the major
> browsers so that nothing would need to be downloaded to be viewed and
> experienced?

I think the best answer here would be "depends". :)

"All" is a pretty big word, and as I mentioned earlier JavaScript/DHTML
is only really suited for a subset of all the things Rev can do.

But on the upside, anything that truly benefits from being in a browser
probably represents a pretty narrow subset of Rev's capabilities anyway.

So in brief, if ToolBook could do this almost a decade ago I see no
reason why Rev couldn't also:

1. Identify a subset of things that would be useful in a browser.

2. Make a Rev library with handlers to support those tasks.

3. Make a JavaScript library with corresponding handlers to get
those behaviors in a browser.

4. Author in Rev, have a library generate the objects as DHTML
snippets in a web page, reference the JavaScript lib,
and upload.

5. Give the URL to your friends and enjoy. :)


Oh, and I forgot Step 0 (before 1):

0. Get some of the open source advocates here to do #1, 2, and 3.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  ___
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution





--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"

From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Richard Gaskin]

GregSmith wrote:


And all of the linkages are already in place through AJAX for the major
browsers so that nothing would need to be downloaded to be viewed and
experienced?  


I think the best answer here would be "depends". :)

"All" is a pretty big word, and as I mentioned earlier JavaScript/DHTML 
is only really suited for a subset of all the things Rev can do.


But on the upside, anything that truly benefits from being in a browser 
probably represents a pretty narrow subset of Rev's capabilities anyway.


So in brief, if ToolBook could do this almost a decade ago I see no 
reason why Rev couldn't also:


1. Identify a subset of things that would be useful in a browser.

2. Make a Rev library with handlers to support those tasks.

3. Make a JavaScript library with corresponding handlers to get
   those behaviors in a browser.

4. Author in Rev, have a library generate the objects as DHTML
   snippets in a web page, reference the JavaScript lib,
   and upload.

5. Give the URL to your friends and enjoy. :)


Oh, and I forgot Step 0 (before 1):

0. Get some of the open source advocates here to do #1, 2, and 3.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Bill Marriott]

"Richard Gaskin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote 
in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> If you can get backing for the development of such a plugin I'm fairly 
> confident RunRev would happily receive the money.

It's always been my plan to win the lottery and give it all to RunRev :)

> A plugin doesn't address that either, since it would still need to be 
> downloaded and installed just like any app, so I'm not certain that's 
> really the best option (try having that conversation with university or 
> hospital IT staff and the knowledgeable ones will raise as many questions 
> about a new plugin as they would about a new app).

Well, they might... but hopefully you'd be able to demonstrate that the 
plugin was much safer than an app. An EXE can do just about anything it 
wants with your system. There's plenty of plugins out there besides Flash, 
anyway. Anytime I go to an online-chat support there's a plugin for the 
chat. Or "smart updaters" for driver software. Or various download managers. 
Or to view a nifty "360 view" of a digital camera.

> Well, why not use the world's most popular presentation layer on the web?
>
> When we consider that the browser experience really deals with only a 
> subset of what Rev can deliver, maybe there's a whole different way to 
> approach this: JavaScript/DHTML (what newcomers to web development are now 
> calling "AJAX").

Ow. My head is starting to hurt! I won't learn JavaScript! You can't make 
me! LOL

> JS provides interactivity in a scripting engine everyone already has 
> installed, and can handle a reasonable subset of the sorts of Rev things 
> that would make sense within a browser window.
>
> One could even take this idea further by incorporating SVG so you can have 
> vectors as well (I have a prototype SVG exporter for Rev in RevNet, and 
> there are more complete implementations around).  And since SVG now 
> incorporates SMIL as a subset, you have support for synchronized 
> time-based media too.

Hey doesn't SVG require a plugin? ;)

Actually, an SVG export/authoring tool would be pretty feasible and 
downright beautiful.

> The full range of things Rev can do would be close to impossible to make a 
> Transcript-to-JavaScript translator for, but again if you need a browser 
> presentation you're probably only needing a fairly narrow subset anyway.
>
> ToolBook provided some handy support for this sort of deployment, 
> providing native libraries with correlating JavaScript libraries for the 
> subset of things that make the most sense in a browser.
>
> There's no reason this couldn't be done in Rev, using a set of templates 
> and wizards on the Rev side and generating corresponding JavaScript/DHTML 
> for web output, just like ToolBook did.
>
> Like Google Maps and Google Earth, there are cool things you can do in a 
> browser and even cooler things you can do in a dedicated app.  If Google 
> Maps represents "Web 2.0", the dedicated Google Earth app represents "Web 
> 3.0". :)  But for those who want ubiquity it's hard to beat a good browser 
> implementation, and with JavaScript/DHTML being just text it's not all 
> that hard to generate when you have an engine that works so gracefully 
> with chunk expressions.
>
> With all the talk of open source support in this community, such an effort 
> based around these open standards on the presentation side should be 
> relatively easy to have at least a basic library and some tools for this 
> in short order.
>
> This would provide an answer for the subset of people who want this sort 
> of thing, and it wouldn't cost RunRev Ltd. anything to see it happen. The 
> company wouldn't need to be distracted from their core mission in any way, 
> and the community would get one more "yes" answer to a common deployment 
> question.  A win-win for all.
>
> So, who's up for herding cats? :)
>
> I'll bet a reasonable v1.0 that addresses the sort of things the Media 
> templates make could be knocked off in under under two weeks' development 
> time

Despite my jokes this is a really good idea. But it certainly is much more 
suited for building specific applications (i.e., web-enabled Media 
templates) than for building a general-purpose "Rev to Web" converter. Kind 
of like the Microsoft "HTML PowerToy" -- I don't think it would be possible 
to make a converter that would work on every stack.




___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[GregSmith]

Richard:

And all of the linkages are already in place through AJAX for the major
browsers so that nothing would need to be downloaded to be viewed and
experienced?  

Since the Media package is being marketed to people who really don't want to
program, but love the media inclusiveness this package contains, why not
make such a web deployment set of functions another included "Wizard", where
the user starts with web deployment in mind, and therefore, starts by using
a smaller overall tool subset.  At $49, this package would be much more
attractive to users than it currently is, giving it a more solid identity.

Greg Smith
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--tf1846212.html#a5074464
Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com.

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Richard Gaskin]

Bill Marriott wrote:

Apple publicly demonstrated a plugin that enabled HyperCard stacks to be run 
within web pages. Unfortunately it never saw distribution. Flash and 
Director both have connections to HyperCard from way back. Frankly, a 
web-plugin is a natural for Rev. It would let us developers write games and 
really awesome interfaces to data sources... the mind boggles at the 
possibilities.


What we're really talking about is a new distribution channel for our 
creative work. All the philosophical musings about whether the plugin wars 
are over or whether Rev is an apple or an orange are moot. The dust has far 
from settled on the Internet.


If you can get backing for the development of such a plugin I'm fairly 
confident RunRev would happily receive the money.


But in my experience such investors are hard to find.  I've not had a 
conversation with them yet that didn't end with "Why not just use Flash?"


I'd like to see Rev make a nice web plugin. A meg or 2 isn't really that 
awful nowadays. The key issue would be security/sandbox concerns. 


The Rev engine already provides support for a very strong level of 
security, both in the Player and available to any standalone with the 
secureMode property, which prevents all file I/O, registry settings, 
shell commands, and other such calls that can be used for malicious ends.


But like you say, that doesn't address the ubiquity question, the desire 
to be able to have nothing more than a URL to experience the software.


A plugin doesn't address that either, since it would still need to be 
downloaded and installed just like any app, so I'm not certain that's 
really the best option (try having that conversation with university or 
hospital IT staff and the knowledgeable ones will raise as many 
questions about a new plugin as they would about a new app).



So what to do for presentation?


Well, why not use the world's most popular presentation layer on the web?

When we consider that the browser experience really deals with only a 
subset of what Rev can deliver, maybe there's a whole different way to 
approach this: JavaScript/DHTML (what newcomers to web development are 
now calling "AJAX").


JS provides interactivity in a scripting engine everyone already has 
installed, and can handle a reasonable subset of the sorts of Rev things 
that would make sense within a browser window.


One could even take this idea further by incorporating SVG so you can 
have vectors as well (I have a prototype SVG exporter for Rev in RevNet, 
and there are more complete implementations around).  And since SVG now 
incorporates SMIL as a subset, you have support for synchronized 
time-based media too.


The full range of things Rev can do would be close to impossible to make 
a Transcript-to-JavaScript translator for, but again if you need a 
browser presentation you're probably only needing a fairly narrow subset 
anyway.


ToolBook provided some handy support for this sort of deployment, 
providing native libraries with correlating JavaScript libraries for the 
subset of things that make the most sense in a browser.


There's no reason this couldn't be done in Rev, using a set of templates 
and wizards on the Rev side and generating corresponding 
JavaScript/DHTML for web output, just like ToolBook did.


Like Google Maps and Google Earth, there are cool things you can do in a 
browser and even cooler things you can do in a dedicated app.  If Google 
Maps represents "Web 2.0", the dedicated Google Earth app represents 
"Web 3.0". :)  But for those who want ubiquity it's hard to beat a good 
browser implementation, and with JavaScript/DHTML being just text it's 
not all that hard to generate when you have an engine that works so 
gracefully with chunk expressions.


With all the talk of open source support in this community, such an 
effort based around these open standards on the presentation side should 
be relatively easy to have at least a basic library and some tools for 
this in short order.


This would provide an answer for the subset of people who want this sort 
of thing, and it wouldn't cost RunRev Ltd. anything to see it happen. 
The company wouldn't need to be distracted from their core mission in 
any way, and the community would get one more "yes" answer to a common 
deployment question.  A win-win for all.


So, who's up for herding cats? :)

I'll bet a reasonable v1.0 that addresses the sort of things the Media 
templates make could be knocked off in under under two weeks' 
development time


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Bill Marriott]

Apple publicly demonstrated a plugin that enabled HyperCard stacks to be run 
within web pages. Unfortunately it never saw distribution. Flash and 
Director both have connections to HyperCard from way back. Frankly, a 
web-plugin is a natural for Rev. It would let us developers write games and 
really awesome interfaces to data sources... the mind boggles at the 
possibilities.

What we're really talking about is a new distribution channel for our 
creative work. All the philosophical musings about whether the plugin wars 
are over or whether Rev is an apple or an orange are moot. The dust has far 
from settled on the Internet.

I'd like to see Rev make a nice web plugin. A meg or 2 isn't really that 
awful nowadays. The key issue would be security/sandbox concerns. 



___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Trevor DeVore]

On Jun 27, 2006, at 8:46 AM, GregSmith wrote:
Exactly, not only do people NOT want to go to the trouble of  
downloading yet
another browser plug-in, they especially do not want to go to the  
trouble of
installing an application which they have never heard of, on a  
machine they
may not own.  This all boils down to people being ignorant and  
conditioned
and suspicious . . .   and there is no turning back now.   
Especially not

with all the mobile this and cell phone that.  This is painfully and
specifically true to those who try to sell anything online that may  
depend,

somewhat, on impulse.


Hi Greg,

While generally true, I have found that if content is truly  
compelling to a person they are willing to take the necessary steps  
to get that content.


The common forms of e-learning deployment are definitely through a  
web browser.  If you have content that is aimed at a broad target  
market then this probably is the best solution.  That doesn't mean it  
is the best solution for all markets.  There are many benefits to  
delivery in a browser but one of the big cons is off-line viewing.


My company creates e-learning software.  While the e-learning model  
we use would apply in many areas we target the medical industry,  
specifically ultrasound.  Off-line viewing of content that is always  
up to date is critical as training often occurs on the road or in a  
doctor's exam room where internet connectivity might not be  
available.  Our solution was a desktop application that synchs with  
online content similar to the way you synch a PDA.


We have deployed this solution in a few large corporations as well as  
to the public and had very positive feedback.  I think we are able to  
create a better overall experience for users using a desktop  
solution.  Since our target market finds the content deployed in our  
e-learning system compelling they are willing to perform the initial  
download.


And, remember, both Flash and QuickTime players come already  
installed in
the most popular and current web browsers.  The less the user has  
to do, the
more they will use it, the more they will trust it, and the less it  
will

matter what software was used to author it.


The points I would question here are how much a user will use or  
trust content based on the ease of acquiring the content.  It seems  
to me that people make the most use of things that they find useful.   
I know of an e-learning solution that were deployed on the web at  
great expense but which was then taken down relatively quickly  
because it was deemed useless.  It was too hard to use.  Regardless  
of your delivery format, the user experience dictates how often the  
user will use it.


People trust names that are familiar to them and that they have a  
positive opinion of.  If a customer has a need of learning something  
about a product they purchased from Company ABC and that company  
provides training then the customer wants access to it (whether on  
paper, web, etc.).  Their opinion of Company ABC is going to be  
affected by the quality of the training that the company provides.   
If the training meets the customers needs, a positive opinion is  
gained and trust increases.  If the training is not good the opposite  
occurs.  I believe this happens regardless of the medium of  
delivery.  Just this weekend I heard complaints about companies  
because of their inadequate assembly instructions.  One was about  
furniture from IKEA and the other about an isolation booth (for music  
studios).


So I would argue that just because a user has less to do to get  
content does not ensure success.  It is the user experience that  
ultimately decides success.  If you can provide that for your target  
market in a browser, great.  If they are better served by a web  
enabled desktop application then take that route.



--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems - www.bluemangolearning.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Andre Garzia]

Greg,

Rev is not a web authoring product. Rev is a Software authoring product.

Revolution is a computer programming language designed to be generic  
enought so that you can make almost all kinds of software with it.  
Some of the concepts of Rev and features are:


* Organized in clean stacks, cards and objects.
* Message Hierarchy
* Support for TCP/IP and lots of standard protocols
* Support to many database systems (mySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle)
* Multimedia features thru quicktime.
* Rich tools to build user interface.
* Wonderful text parsing.
* XML libraries.

This are just some features I am quoting out of my head. Nor Flash,  
Nor Quicktime, Nor the best mix of AJAX/CSS/Buzzword-of-the-month  
will give you this feature set. The only possible way to have this  
kinds of features is by switching to another computer language. You  
simply cannot map back and forth from Rev to the technologies you're  
saying. It's like saying that fireworks does a better job at croping  
images than rev, hey, fireworks is a image manipulation program, Rev  
is a language, it will do what you code it to do.


Now that we're talking about coding, let me give you an idea. See  
it's not impossible to transport your efforts with Rev to the web,  
the thing is that it is not out of the box. You'll never be able to  
transport a Revolution stack application to the web while sustaining  
all its features. But you can create your own tool to make your web  
stuff. It's easier than you think.


For example suppose that each card is a page, and in each page there  
are images, like a virtual photo albumn. You can then make a little  
tool that will loop thru this stack and images building an HTML + CSS  
photo gallery for you.


Many in this list have coined their own Content Management System in  
Rev, some have turned those into products which are quite good. Check  
4W WebMerge and Altuit Hemmingway, both are built with Rev and easy  
to use.


When you build your own tool, you control everything, you can decide  
how things should be transported to the web and adapt your software  
to your personal workflow, its a nice experience when you first do it.


cheers
andre

On Jun 27, 2006, at 6:04 AM, GregSmith wrote:


After four days of
searching for the ultimate Mac-based web authoring product, I found  
that all
of them, except Revolution, (of any flavor), output my efforts as  
Flash or

QuickTime or CSS or HTML.


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[GregSmith]

As a non-committed Revolution "explorer", my expectations are quite high,
these days, when I purchase any new authoring tool.  Prices are plummetting
everywhere and I expect very much bang for my buck.  After four days of
searching for the ultimate Mac-based web authoring product, I found that all
of them, except Revolution, (of any flavor), output my efforts as Flash or
QuickTime or CSS or HTML.   Most of these "solutions" were either extremely
elementary in the kind of content they could produce, or too cryptic with
not enough user examples and tutorials, to catch my dollar.

Revolution Media really caught my interest because of its friendly nature,
its low price and its ability to harness Transcript, the least intimidating
programming language out there, (I think).  Silly me, I just assumed that it
would generate some kind of standard web (browser) output that would retain,
at least most of the interactivity, I built in.  It is not out of the
question that a $49 authoring application would include this kind of
functionality.

No matter which version of Revolution you are trying to sell, nor how
technically educated the applicant may be, the guys and gals who pay their
wages all think mainly in terms of "The Web" for online dellivery of
multimedia content.  And the potential purchaser of a product like Media
will be thinking along those same lines.


Greg Smith
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--tf1846212.html#a5068987
Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com.

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[GregSmith]

Judy:

Exactly, not only do people NOT want to go to the trouble of downloading yet
another browser plug-in, they especially do not want to go to the trouble of
installing an application which they have never heard of, on a machine they
may not own.  This all boils down to people being ignorant and conditioned
and suspicious . . .   and there is no turning back now.  Especially not
with all the mobile this and cell phone that.  This is painfully and
specifically true to those who try to sell anything online that may depend,
somewhat, on impulse.

And, remember, both Flash and QuickTime players come already installed in
the most popular and current web browsers.  The less the user has to do, the
more they will use it, the more they will trust it, and the less it will
matter what software was used to author it.

Greg Smith
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--tf1846212.html#a5068603
Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com.

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Ben Rubinstein]

T'aint the same as displaying content embedded in the middle of a web page; 
and still requires (as every other possible solution would) the end user to 
download something on their disk; but it occurs to me that we might, with 
little effort, at least be able to get to the state that PDF is on for many 
people.


That is, while some browsers display PDF as a whole window within the browser, 
many others simply hand off a PDF file linked from a web page to Acrobat or 
Preview.


At least on the Mac, I think it would be simple to write a standalone that 
when launched, sets itself as the handler for eg the protocal "revhttp:". 
Then instead of telling to people to launch Rev and type

go to URL "http://xxx";

in the message box, you'd simply have a link like this on a web page:
http://xxx";>click to run

When the user clicks it, the browser hands it off to the standalone, which 
will be launched if necessary - the standalone gets the message to open that 
URL, realises it is a rev stack to be accessed by http, fetches the stack, opens.


I know the basic mechanism (browser handing off URL to app written in Rev) 
works, because I used it recently to have links in web page causing a 
Rev-based app to display some relevant information.  In that case I was 
manually configuring the Mac to link the 'protocol' to my app, but I assume 
this can be done programatically. (My suggestion above, assuming it's trivial, 
is to make the standalone runner be its own installer in this respect.)


I never did discover how to set up a custom protocal mapping like this on 
Windows - does anyone know?


If this idea actually strikes anyone as useful, perhaps the RevInterop group 
might like to consider if there are some guidelines that might be useful to 
standardise on.


Also (Lynn?) - while clearly a Studio/Enterprise user can set something like 
this up for themselves/their own user base, would RunRev have issues about 
this?  Maybe (unless everyone thinks this is a totally dumb idea) this 
functionality could be built into the forthcoming enhanced Rev Player.


  Ben Rubinstein   |  Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cognitive Applications Ltd   |  Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600
  http://www.cogapp.com|  Fax  : +44 (0)1273-728866

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Lynn Fredricks]

> So, for the Revolution author who wants to take advantage of 
> all of the authoring prowess of Revolution, yet wants to also 
> enjoy the added benefit of regular sales transactions, he or 
> she might be best served by a compromise in the form of a 
> standard browser plug-in, which fully displays all of the 
> functionality of a Revolution stack . . . or, better yet, a 
> translator which exports the fully functional Revolution 
> stack into a format like Flash or QuickTime.

Hi Greg,

In terms of training, the channel is FILLED with product that definitely is
not delivered by way of a browser at all, though they may incorporate
Quicktime video playback (just like Revolution does).

One problem with developing a "standard" browser plugin is that there are
still multiple browsers out there, and multiple versions of those browsers,
and supporting them can be a nightmare.

There are reasons for using different tools that depend entirely on your
project. There are downsides to delivering a media message directly through
a browser as compared to a "heavy client" like Revolution - again, the
number of downsides depends on the details of your project.

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd








___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Thomas McGrath III]

Richard,

Votes are precious so although I am very interested in this I don't  
think I have enough votes left to apply to it.


I would say that maybe some crossover between a Flash/Java output and  
a Rev development app would help greatly in this endeavor.


Maybe an Object exporter from with in Rev that exports objects into a  
format useful in flash with built in functionality.


Tom McG

On Jun 27, 2006, at 12:25 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


. . . or, better yet, a translator which exports the fully
functional Revolution stack into a format
like Flash or QuickTime.


Or even Java, which may be a closer fit in a lot of ways, and  
there's a lot of example code on generating byte code.


Yeah, I'd like this option for some things.  There may even be a  
feature request filed in Bugzilla for this.  I wonder how many  
votes it's gotten.


In the meantime, for Web deployment it's hard to beat Flash, just  
as for desktop applications it's hard to beat Rev.  I suppose it'd  
be ideal to have one tool that does everything optimally, but since  
both tools are pretty cheap and (at least in my work) it's rare  
that I'd want to make the same thing for web deployment and as a  
desktop app, maybe two tools isn't a deal breaker for either.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal


Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Lazy River Software - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com

Lazy River Metal Art™ - http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/metal.html

Meeting Wear - http://www.cafepress.com/meetingwear

Semantic Compaction Systems - http://www.minspeak.com

SCIconics, LLC - http://www.sciconics.com/sciindex.html







___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Judy Perry]

Scott,

Right, of course, but the problem still remains in a Windows world that,
if your web content requires downloading some program that nobody's ever
heard of, you've probably just cut-off 80%+ of your potential audience.
Maybe even 90%+ (Many will be precluded by lacking permissions on
non-owned machines and owners may well balk at downloading something that
could well be the Prelude to a DriveWipe).

Isn't this reminiscent of the whole problem of Rev relying upon QuickTime
in a QuickTime-hostile Windows world?

Judy

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, GregSmith wrote:
>
> > So, really there are no Runtime Revolution products or
> > extensions or 3rd party products made specifically for delivering multimedia
> > content over the internet.
>
> Actually, you can deliver any Revolution content over the Internet using a
> single line of code:
>
>   go url "http://www.myserver.com/mycoolstack.rev";
>
> This loads a stack from the 'net almost as if you had launched it from your
> desktop.  The difference is, the stack doesn't appear within the confines of
> a Web browser.  If your audience has a player of some sort (whether it be
> Runtime's player or something custom that you build) they can view your
> Internet delivered stacks.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -
> E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
>
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Judy Perry]

Richard,

While I really liked your referenced article, and, indeed, agree
substantially with its many good points, the problem remains with the vast
legions of folk who don't know the internet from the web, http from ftp
(what?!??) and/or, in the case of a bunch of general education and
upper-division college students I had last Fall, the grammatic/structural
difference between an email address and a URL; thus, that problem being
that NOT being able to deploy stacks in a web browser really limits the
internet deployment of your stacks.

:-(

Serious bummer...

And we won't even go into the folks who think that multimedia EXCLUSIVELY
= web content.

Judy


On Mon, 26 Jun 2006, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> The Internet is not necessarily the Web.  There are sometimes good
> reasons to deploy stuff specifically within a browser window, but
> deploying stacks over the Internet to your own custom browser is a snap
> with Rev:
>
>
> Beyond the Browser
> Rediscovering the Role of the Desktop in a Net-centric World
>
> 

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Judy Perry]

If I'm not mistaken, this is something lots of folks have been asking for
for a long time.

Maybe it lies in 'the road ahead'?

Judy

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006, GregSmith wrote:

>
> Jacqueline:
>
> That's too bad.  So, really there are no Runtime Revolution products or
> extensions or 3rd party products made specifically for delivering multimedia
> content over the internet.
>
> Seems like a natural fit for a product like Runtime Revolution and its rich
> use of all media types, coupled with all the other database integration
> stuff.
>

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Andre Garzia]

On Jun 26, 2006, at 6:25 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


. . . or, better yet, a translator which exports the fully
functional Revolution stack into a format
like Flash or QuickTime.


Err, friends,

I don't want to be one to spoil the fun but nor quicktime nor flash  
supports the feature-set of Rev. That conversion is not only  
impossible, it's unthinkable, it's like trying to pass a pineapple to  
a machine and expecting iPods at the other side.


Quicktime is a media container.
Flash is a interactive media tool.
Rev is a computer language.

Flash has a kind of programming language, Quicktime has some kind of  
interactivity and Rev do media well, but the similarities end there.


It would be a wiser path to build a tool in Rev that would pick your  
content and generate flash or quicktime.


andre
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Richard Gaskin]

GregSmith wrote:


So, for the Revolution author who wants to take advantage of all of the
authoring prowess of Revolution, yet wants to also enjoy the added benefit
of regular sales transactions  he or she might be best served by a
compromise in the form of a standard browser plug-in, which fully displays
all of the functionality of a Revolution stack


Check the list archives. :)  The short form is that the browser plugin 
wars were won by Macromedia more than half a decade ago.  If you need 
Flash it's not expensive and there are a great many templates, 
courseware packages, etc.


The issue with making yet-another-browser-plugin is that while bean 
counters like how it reads on paper, users and their IT staff quickly 
learn that it's no different from a custom browser:  they still need to 
download and install some engine to drive it all.


Only Flash is pre-installed -- a good route to go with if you need the 
in-browser experience.



. . . or, better yet, a translator which exports the fully
functional Revolution stack into a format
like Flash or QuickTime.


Or even Java, which may be a closer fit in a lot of ways, and there's a 
lot of example code on generating byte code.


Yeah, I'd like this option for some things.  There may even be a feature 
request filed in Bugzilla for this.  I wonder how many votes it's gotten.


In the meantime, for Web deployment it's hard to beat Flash, just as for 
desktop applications it's hard to beat Rev.  I suppose it'd be ideal to 
have one tool that does everything optimally, but since both tools are 
pretty cheap and (at least in my work) it's rare that I'd want to make 
the same thing for web deployment and as a desktop app, maybe two tools 
isn't a deal breaker for either.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[GregSmith]

Richard:

Thanks for all the links, and I do agree with your thesis about internet
apps.  But, from the standpoint of selling software training modules, the
two most important issues that the seller must face are trust and
familiarity, coming from and directed to their potential customers.  

Users have been trained, by continual exposure, to trust web-based
transactions, standard plug-ins like QuickTime and Flash, conducted and
experienced in standard browser environments.  Remove them from this trusted
commerce environment and you will probably lose many sales.  Yet, from a
purely theoretical viewpoint, not all content or sales environments are best
served by what the browser environment has to offer, either.  

So, for the Revolution author who wants to take advantage of all of the
authoring prowess of Revolution, yet wants to also enjoy the added benefit
of regular sales transactions, he or she might be best served by a
compromise in the form of a standard browser plug-in, which fully displays
all of the functionality of a Revolution stack . . . or, better yet, a
translator which exports the fully functional Revolution stack into a format
like Flash or QuickTime.

I'd sure be tempted to lay down a cool 300 bucks if such things were already
included in the Revolution Studio package.

Greg Smith
--
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--t1846212.html#a5058145
Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com.

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Richard Gaskin]

GregSmith wrote:


When you say "a snap", what you mean by snap and what I may understand you
to mean could easily be 2 different things.  I did look for examples of how
to do what you are describing by searching the Revolution site and Google,
but came up empty-handed.


Did you read the article I referenced?

Also, the Open Directory entry for Transcript has some links to 
examples, like these:





And then there's the RevPlayer, and RevNet, which is installed with 
Revolution in Development->Plugins->GoRevNet



Does this kind of "snap" involve all sorts of CGI, PHP, XML or other
acronym-laced procedures, the likes of which I run from at the earliest
opportunity?

Or, is it easy like drag and drop stuff without writing a single line of
code.  I just love it when advertisements reassure me with statements like
that.


Point-and-click authoring in the Revolution line of products is limited 
to the wizards (which RunRev calls "templates") provided with Rev Media.


I trust their player makes it easy to deploy these online, but to be 
honest I build mostly standalones myself so I haven't yet looked at the 
Player.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[GregSmith]

Richard:

Oh, and in my quest for the perfect, easy, to the point, no programming web
authoring environment, I came across Apple's Keynote 3.  Now, although this
is not Revolution by any stretch of the imagination, it contains a lot of
animated pizzazz and interactivity which is perfectly acceptable for web
demonstrations of software functionality.

Why, when reading the appropriate forum posts, I even came across a post by
an old HyperCard user and author who was hoping this product might evolve
into something HyperCard-like in the future.  Certainly it could.  

Keynote 3 looked fun and functional, just watch the demonstration that ships
with the package, (you can try out Keynote 3 if you have a current version
of iLife 06).

I know it is not the cup of tea for the hardened programmer.

Greg Smith
--
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--t1846212.html#a5057186
Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com.

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[GregSmith]

Richard:

When you say "a snap", what you mean by snap and what I may understand you
to mean could easily be 2 different things.  I did look for examples of how
to do what you are describing by searching the Revolution site and Google,
but came up empty-handed.

Does this kind of "snap" involve all sorts of CGI, PHP, XML or other
acronym-laced procedures, the likes of which I run from at the earliest
opportunity?

Or, is it easy like drag and drop stuff without writing a single line of
code.  I just love it when advertisements reassure me with statements like
that.

Greg Smith
--
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--t1846212.html#a5057090
Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com.

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Thomas McCarthy]

Greg,
I also was looking for this feature--first in SuperCard. But if you think about 
it, something like Flash requires a multi-megabyte download and install plugin 
for your browser. You can accomplish the same by having your users run 
web-based stacks from a rev app on their hard-drive.

You can also use Rev for cgi's to deliver dynamic html pages, such presenting 
information from a database or using a javascript templates to create on the 
fly interactive pages...

I guess the point is instead of worrying what Rev can't do, try looking at what 
it can accomplish. If you need a flashy animation web app, try flash.

cheers,
tm

OOOh, before I forget. OpenOffice has a decent presentation component that can 
save as flash files (no audio, though)

___
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, GregSmith wrote:

> So, really there are no Runtime Revolution products or
> extensions or 3rd party products made specifically for delivering multimedia
> content over the internet.

Actually, you can deliver any Revolution content over the Internet using a
single line of code:

  go url "http://www.myserver.com/mycoolstack.rev";

This loads a stack from the 'net almost as if you had launched it from your
desktop.  The difference is, the stack doesn't appear within the confines of
a Web browser.  If your audience has a player of some sort (whether it be
Runtime's player or something custom that you build) they can view your
Internet delivered stacks.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Richard Gaskin]

GregSmith wrote:

So, really there are no Runtime Revolution products or
extensions or 3rd party products made specifically for
delivering multimedia content over the internet.


The Internet is not necessarily the Web.  There are sometimes good 
reasons to deploy stuff specifically within a browser window, but 
deploying stacks over the Internet to your own custom browser is a snap 
with Rev:



Beyond the Browser
Rediscovering the Role of the Desktop in a Net-centric World



--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[GregSmith]

Jacqueline:

That's too bad.  So, really there are no Runtime Revolution products or
extensions or 3rd party products made specifically for delivering multimedia
content over the internet.

Seems like a natural fit for a product like Runtime Revolution and its rich
use of all media types, coupled with all the other database integration
stuff.

As an aside, I spent the last four days scouring the internet for THE
multimedia authoring package designed to deliver content over the internet .
. . , (it's been a long time since I looked last, so I expected the
marketplace to be bursting with such applications),  and you know what . . .  
it doesn't exist, not for the Mac, anyway.  Now I know all about Adobe's
line of products, (formerly Macromedia's) and LiveStage Pro and EXedia QTI,
and non of these really is specifically tailored for internet delivery of
multimedia content of the kind Revolution is capable of making. 

Perhaps some of the Revolution programming experts out there should take
advantage of this obvious industry oversight.

I think the days for distributing such content, offline, to the masses, have
pretty much evaporated.  And, sorry to say, I think Adobe has monopolized
the market for producing tools for the distribution of online multimedia
content.  I just don't want to play monopoly anymore.

Greg Smith
--
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--t1846212.html#a5056366
Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com.

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[J. Landman Gay]

GregSmith wrote:


For convenience, most people offering online training stuff require the kind
of portability that Flash or QuickTime offers, so that the content can be
viewed in a standard web browser . . .  is that even possible with any
version of Runtime Revolution?


Not per se. Rev doesn't have a browser plug-in, which is what you'd need 
in order to present stack content. You can write a CGI that takes a 
picture of a card and returns it to the browser for viewing, but if you 
want interactivity, that method doesn't work very well.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[GregSmith]

Dan:

I really like the wizard idea for putting together an adventure type game,
(which I would just use for fun), so I'd have to purchase Media for that. 
But, I still don't understand how I would use Studio to put together a
"demonstration" type web presentation that would feature watchable,
interactive snippets of my educational content, made with Revolution.  My
goal is to sell these interactive educational video modules, online, but
people just don't buy these things without an online sampling that they can
experience "right away", if you know what I mean.

As far as I have been able to assess, one would have to author an entire
"web application" to put actual Runtime examples online, not viewable in a
standard browser.  But, I'm still confused whether such an application would
act as content, like Flash or interactive QuickTime, or whether it is an
entire, experiential web application.  

For convenience, most people offering online training stuff require the kind
of portability that Flash or QuickTime offers, so that the content can be
viewed in a standard web browser . . .  is that even possible with any
version of Runtime Revolution?

Thanks,

Greg Smith
--
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--t1846212.html#a5051742
Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com.

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[Dan Shafer]

Greg.

I don't speak or work for RunRev and there's always the chance I'm just as
confused as you, but here's what I understand.

Rev Media is differentiated from Revolution in two primary ways:

First, as Jacque has already said, you can't deliver your Rev Media products
any way but using the free Rev Media Player.

Second, Rev Media comes equipped with four (for the moment) templates (more
like wizards, actually) that assist you in building specific kinds of
applications. You can do other things with Media but its primary thrust is
to focus on those template/wizards. Those assistants do NOT come with
Revolution, which is intended to be a more general purpose tool.

So I think the short answer is that if you wanted to use the Rev Media tool
to create, e.g., an adventure game, and then compile the result into a
standalone application or deliver it some othe way, you'd need both
products.

On 6/26/06, GregSmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Jacqueline:

So, there is a way to create a viewable web presentation using Revolution
Studio?  If so, how?

Also, if one purchases the "Media" edition, he gets some goodies that
don't
seem to be available with the Studio purchase, like the adventure game
stuff.  So, does one have to purchase both versions to get some of these
premade elements?  I'm confused and couldn't find the answers to these
questions on the Runtime Revolution website.

Thank you,

Greg Smith
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--t1846212.html#a5047997
Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com.

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution





--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"

From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[GregSmith]

Jacqueline:

So, there is a way to create a viewable web presentation using Revolution
Studio?  If so, how?

Also, if one purchases the "Media" edition, he gets some goodies that don't
seem to be available with the Studio purchase, like the adventure game
stuff.  So, does one have to purchase both versions to get some of these
premade elements?  I'm confused and couldn't find the answers to these
questions on the Runtime Revolution website.

Thank you,

Greg Smith
--
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Revolution-Media-Presentation-Viewable-on-Web--t1846212.html#a5047997
Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com.

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media Presentation Viewable on Web?

[J. Landman Gay]

Greg Smith wrote:
I've been intimidated  by the full blown Revolution package and now feel 
a little more comfortable, especially in the area of the pocket book, 
since "Revolution Media" has been introduced.  I'm mainly interested in 
using this product to produce educational training material that 
features a lot of slideshow material and captured QuickTime sessions 
with software demonstration.  Of course, the more interactivity, the 
better.


But, is deployment through the Runtime "player" the only method for 
viewing and distribution?  Can a website equipped with a plug-in manage 
to demonstrate some of the interactive content that I intend to produce 
with Revolution Media?


For Media, yes, you need to deploy on the Player. There is no browser 
plug-in, so the Player is pretty much your only option. This is, in 
fact, the main differentiation between Media and the other editions.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media

[Charles Hartman]

On Feb 15, 2006, at 8:43 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:

-- except apparently it sort of doesn't. I got from Rev a message  
inviting me to buy an upgrade pack for my Dreamcard. I wrote back  
in puzzlement because I'd thought just what you say. The return  
message points out that the DC up-pack is good for a year while the  
Media purchase -- for the same price -- is one time only, and  
suggests that the two have different features. But the  
disappearance of Dreamcard from the Rev website (unless I've gone  
blind) makes this hard to comprehend in detail.


I think I have gone blind. Dreamcard is there on the site at
http://downloads.runrev.com/dreamcard
Sorry. What misled me is that Dreamcard is missing from all  
comparisons among Rev versions, which certainly underscores the idea  
that it's on the way out.


Charles

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media

[Charles Hartman]

At what in particular? I don't see anything here that addresses this  
question. It's been a long day and I'm tired; what am I missing?


Charles


On Feb 15, 2006, at 9:24 PM, Lynn Fredricks wrote:


"(Database access not available in Revolution Media)" is

right in the

middle of the features page.


Yes, but I don't know what that means. *Oracle* (etc) access
isn't available in Dreamcard either; but I access my MySQL
stuff (using Blue Mango's libDatabase) just fine.


It's a good idea to look here as well:
http://revmedia.runrev.com/look_inside.php

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software, Inc

Joining Worlds of Information

Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions
Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network
http://www.paradigmasoft.com





___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
subscription preferences:

http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: Revolution Media

[Lynn Fredricks]

> > "(Database access not available in Revolution Media)" is 
> right in the 
> > middle of the features page.
> 
> Yes, but I don't know what that means. *Oracle* (etc) access 
> isn't available in Dreamcard either; but I access my MySQL 
> stuff (using Blue Mango's libDatabase) just fine.

It's a good idea to look here as well:
http://revmedia.runrev.com/look_inside.php

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software, Inc

Joining Worlds of Information

Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions
Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network
http://www.paradigmasoft.com





___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media

[Charles Hartman]

On Feb 15, 2006, at 9:09 PM, Lynn Fredricks wrote:

-- except apparently it sort of doesn't. I got from Rev a  
message inviting me to buy an upgrade pack for my Dreamcard.

I wrote back in puzzlement because I'd thought just what you
say. The return message points out that the DC up-pack is
good for a year while the Media purchase -- for the same
price -- is one time only, and suggests that the two have
different features. But the disappearance of Dreamcard from
the Rev website (unless I've gone blind) makes this hard to
comprehend in detail.


"(Database access not available in Revolution Media)" is right in  
the middle

of the features page.


Yes, but I don't know what that means. *Oracle* (etc) access isn't  
available in Dreamcard either; but I access my MySQL stuff (using  
Blue Mango's libDatabase) just fine.


Charles

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: Revolution Media

[Lynn Fredricks]

> -- except apparently it sort of doesn't. I got from Rev a 
> message inviting me to buy an upgrade pack for my Dreamcard. 
> I wrote back in puzzlement because I'd thought just what you 
> say. The return message points out that the DC up-pack is 
> good for a year while the Media purchase -- for the same 
> price -- is one time only, and suggests that the two have 
> different features. But the disappearance of Dreamcard from 
> the Rev website (unless I've gone blind) makes this hard to 
> comprehend in detail.

"(Database access not available in Revolution Media)" is right in the middle
of the features page.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software, Inc

Joining Worlds of Information

Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions
Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network
http://www.paradigmasoft.com



___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: Revolution Media

[Charles Hartman]

On Feb 15, 2006, at 8:36 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Can anyone enlighten me on Revolution Media? Looks like a great  
product for a

great price. I'm assuming it replaces Dreamcard.


-- except apparently it sort of doesn't. I got from Rev a message  
inviting me to buy an upgrade pack for my Dreamcard. I wrote back in  
puzzlement because I'd thought just what you say. The return message  
points out that the DC up-pack is good for a year while the Media  
purchase -- for the same price -- is one time only, and suggests that  
the two have different features. But the disappearance of Dreamcard  
from the Rev website (unless I've gone blind) makes this hard to  
comprehend in detail.


I suspect the website is still in the process of being brought up to  
date, so I'll check back in a day or two.



Charles

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution