Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
sorry i have been out on the water chasing whales for a couple of weeks and am behind in the rev list. Peter, I beg to differ on this point. Almost all my clients are poor educational and charitable orgs. the big thing here (which others have mentioned) is total cost of use of the equipment, not just the hardware price. PCs only do well with small orgs when there is someone (usually a volunteer) that is very handy with computers and willing to come in and keep things going. i have had many orgs take donation pcs or buy cheap pcs with costs in mind only to end up spending horrendous amounts of time (and in some cases money) keeping things running. Macs have traditionally had very low total cost of ownership costs in many ROI studies and this has also been proven out many times in my personal experience in this sector. If an org does not have someone that can manage a pc well then it can be trouble. linux is totally over the heads of all the small non profits i work with. IT support is totally non existent with most small non profits. even if they have a good staff member or volunteer to keep things running this is dangerous since if they leave the org is screwed (i know i have lived through this a few times). In education the gifts of apple equipment did get some loyalty, but the big reason that macs still have a large share of that market is that they are easy to keep going and the hardware tends to live on and on and on (sometimes you just want to go out and shoot an old machine since its so old, but still chuggin along and no one wants to loose a machine thats working!). they can also be managed by a teacher with just a little bit of computer savvy and willingness to just play with things. the first thing in school budgets to go are education IT support (administration keeps getting it) and computer lab instructors/managers. the support goes but the hardware is still there... I had these points drive home really hard when i went back to my old high school to teach for a year. i had a mac lab that was a mish mash of like 7 or 8 models ranging in age from new to 7 or 8 years old. i had about 30 some odd desk tops and another 25 laptops. down the hall we new pc lab with 25 dells all identical and a full time tech (he didnt teach, just kept things running and installed stuff) who was ms certified up the wazoo. i was not certified in any way (certifications, certifications, we dont need no stinking certifications!) and was teaching full time. i usually had a machine or two down and usually they were just waiting for a hardware order to come in or just the spare hour to fix things. the pc lab usually had 4-5 machines down at any time. i would see the tech in there earnestly trying to fix them for hours. The pc lab was paid for by a grant from the business classes (they thought it was wrong to learn computing on a mac) and halfway through the first quarter i had most of the business instructors begging for some spare time in the mac lab to do their classes. the last funny thing lately has been about 5 small business owners i know in the last 6 months have called up and asked what macs they should buy for their business. they were all hard core pc users and were all pretty savvy computer users and the last people in the world i would have ever thought would switch sides (each of them were some of my worst rassers of me using macs mostly). They all said pretty much exactly the same thing that they just had the last straw drawn and realized how much time they were wasting keeping the computers running instead of using the computer to do their work and get income. personally i have had to work both sides of the fence (mac, pc and others) over the last 20 years and i keep realizing the same thing that the extra investment up front really pays off on the long run and i think this proves true to a lot of folks out there... cheers Jeffrey Reynolds On Jul 15, 2007, at 6:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But for poor educational or charitable sector organizations to buy Minis just seems to me a totally disordered sense of priorities. Still more if a prime purpose is to run Rev, which is (one of its pleasures) so remarkably forgiving of low end hardware. I have had absolutely no, zero, complaints about responsiveness on our 500Mhz machine running the Rev app. Its instant. If we were teaching programming on it, using Rev, I think it would be perfectly fine and at least as responsive as a Mini. The graphics are of the same generation anyway. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
On Jul 16, 2007, at 3:37 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: On 7/16/07, Scott Rossi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd say we're ready to move on, yes? OK, Mr. BuzzKill...I'll remember NOT to invite you to my next HoDown here in Austin ;-) (HoDown=place where we give away Mac Mini's to all ho attend) Nice! Tell me when and I'll be there. We bundle minis with one of our apps. They make great embedded-like systems when one needs the Mac OS, a small footprint, and the ability to hook up to just about any monitor size on the planet. Mark Talluto -- CANELA Software http://www.canelasoftware.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Yes, Stephen, I have used a 17 in an airplane other than 1st Class. It was tight, but doable. Have you ever used a laptop smaller than 17 anywhere but on an airplane? It is fine to speak from your experience, but don't speak from your experience as if it is the be all and end all of everyone's experience. For that matter, if you answered my question at the beginning of this paragraph with Yes then perhaps you are cheating yourself when you speak from one experience as if it is the whole of your experience. - Mick On Jul 16, 2007, at 2:03 AM, Stephen Barncard wrote: Have you ever tried to use a 17 laptop in an airplane? (First Class is cheating). Practical means on how much you have put up with moving it around.. You can shy away from any claims you like. I just speak from my experience. I beg to differ. I use the (pre-Intel) 17 PowerBook (Apple) and because of what I use it for (math tutoring and educational development and demonstration) I could use a smaller laptop but that would not be practical for me for the tutoring aspect and no more practical for the development and demo. Personally, except for the likely price with current tech, I'd love to have a 23 laptop. Makes me shy away from your other claims because you apparently make some assumptions about other people's uses that don't really hold water. -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Paul (Looney), I have copied Stephen B's post, and your reply and my reply ... which was to Stephen's claim, not yours. Sorry, I should have addressed it with his name. I just thought that he was making a claim that was perhaps valid for him, but he was stating it as if his needs and evaluations were (obviously) everybody's. - Mick On Jul 15, 2007, at 10:50 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mick, To whom was your letter addressed? Paul Looney ** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution I beg to differ. I use the (pre-Intel) 17 PowerBook (Apple) and because of what I use it for (math tutoring and educational development and demonstration) I could use a smaller laptop but that would not be practical for me for the tutoring aspect and no more practical for the development and demo. Personally, except for the likely price with current tech, I'd love to have a 23 laptop. Makes me shy away from your other claims because you apparently make some assumptions about other people's uses that don't really hold water. On Sunday, July 15, 2007, at 01:09PM, Stephen Barncard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it also supports the 23 Cinema display. Unless one is editing video or doing real high rez graphics, this is the biggest practical size. Just as 15 is the biggest practical laptop... OK, I signed too. I rarely use my mini, preferring the MacBook Pro, but I still like having it. I thought about adding support for 30 inch Apple cinema display to the wish list (the mini currently drives a 20 inch cinema display but having it run the 30 incher would be fantastic!). However, I'm sure that would add way too much to the cost. I'd be happy with a dedicated graphics processor. On Jul 15, 2007, at 11:42 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Have you ever tried to use a 17 laptop in an airplane? (First Class is cheating). Practical means on how much you have put up with moving it around.. You can shy away from any claims you like. I just speak from my experience. I beg to differ. I use the (pre-Intel) 17 PowerBook (Apple) and because of what I use it for (math tutoring and educational development and demonstration) I could use a smaller laptop but that would not be practical for me for the tutoring aspect and no more practical for the development and demo. Personally, except for the likely price with current tech, I'd love to have a 23 laptop. Makes me shy away from your other claims because you apparently make some assumptions about other people's uses that don't really hold water. -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Mick Collins wrote: I beg to differ. I use the (pre-Intel) 17 PowerBook (Apple) and because of what I use it for (math tutoring and educational development and demonstration) I could use a smaller laptop but that would not be practical for me for the tutoring aspect and no more practical for the development and demo. Personally, except for the likely price with current tech, I'd love to have a 23 laptop. Makes me shy away from your other claims because you apparently make some assumptions about other people's uses that don't really hold water. ditto that: we all upgraded to MacBooks, most everyone went for 15 for the smaller foot print as we move around a lot. 2 of us stayed with 17 -- it really was a good decision. 1) speakers on the 15 MacBook Pro are horrible, you can't really use them for a presentation without speakers. But the ones on the 17 are great. 2) I use *all* the desktop space I can get... 17 plus 30 cinema display, consider these windows, which, gradually thru the day must be open simultaneously: My revolution PIM stack, Thunderbird, SKYPE, Firefox, (our wiki in one window and a another window for surfing) usually 1-3 BBEdit windows open, one or two windows from some other REv app that is running, InDesign CS3, Photoshop and interarchy and then Finder windows for our server on the LAN. Oh yes, and possibly we might need to open Portfolio or iView for a quick photo catalog check... Thank God for Drag Thing! has nothing to do with hi rez Efficiency studies have shown that for every square inch of desktop space you give your staff, you save that many hand-to-mouse window resizing and moving operations, with significant productivity gains: it's about window space. They have done video's over people's shoulders and on small screen the amt of time just spent playing with your windows sometimes approaches 20%+ of the total man hours over a month's time. Others here think I'm kidding, but I could-would actually use all the space on another 30 monitor if I had one. On Sunday, July 15, 2007, at 01:09PM, Stephen Barncard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it also supports the 23 Cinema display. Unless one is editing video or doing real high rez graphics, this is the biggest practical size. Just as 15 is the biggest practical laptop... OK, I signed too. I rarely use my mini, preferring the MacBook Pro, but I still like having it. I thought about adding support for 30 inch Apple cinema display to the wish list (the mini currently drives a 20 inch cinema display but having it run the 30 incher would be fantastic!). However, I'm sure that would add way too much to the cost. I'd be happy with a dedicated graphics processor. On Jul 15, 2007, at 11:42 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- Om shanti (In Peace) Sivakatirswami www.himalayanacademy.com Get Hinduism Today Digital Edition. It's Free! http://www.hinduismtoday.com/digital/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
On Jul 16, 2007, at 3:06 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote: Efficiency studies have shown that for every square inch of desktop space you give your staff, you save that many hand-to-mouse window resizing and moving operations, with significant productivity gains: it's about window space. They have done video's over people's shoulders and on small screen the amt of time just spent playing with your windows sometimes approaches 20%+ of the total man hours over a month's time. Others here think I'm kidding, but I could-would actually use all the space on another 30 monitor if I had one. I know what you mean! I have two 20 monitors and there's never enough room! I couldn't live without CodeTek Virtual Desktop Pro. It allows you to have up to 100 desktops, and provides a pager window that shows all your application windows on their desktops and lets you move the miniature windows around to make the actual windows fly across the monitors. MacOS 10.4.6 broke VDP and I wanted to give up coding because I so dislike delving through layers and layers of windows. VDP worked again with 10.4.7—so I sat back down at the computer again with all my applications in their proper places and my windows where they belong. Evidently, the next MacOS will have something similar built in. t -- Tereza Snyder Califex Software, Inc. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
OK, some folks like the Mini, some folks don't. I'd say we're ready to move on, yes? Best Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, Multimedia Design ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
On 7/16/07, Scott Rossi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd say we're ready to move on, yes? OK, Mr. BuzzKill...I'll remember NOT to invite you to my next HoDown here in Austin ;-) (HoDown=place where we give away Mac Mini's to all ho attend) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
I know what you mean! I have two 20 monitors and there's never enough room! I couldn't live without CodeTek Virtual Desktop Pro. Evidently, the next MacOS will have something similar built in. Yes, I've played with it on a beta of Leopard. It's called Spaces and it works really well. As happens so often, Apple has taken an old idea but made it easy to use and terrific looking. Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Paul, Sorry, Katheryn is my alternate persona (Katherine Roet Swynford, sister of the Philippa Roet who married the 14th C. poet Geoffrey Chaucer). I've studied her for about 30 years. I'm using her now as my normal addy is unavailable due to system update. I suspect a woman 600+ years deceased shouldn't vote. ;-) Judy On 7/14/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy (Katheryn), Children, probably OK. Dog votes, phantom votes, duplicate votes, definitely not OK. As of this morning, only 8877 votes to go... When the time comes that we all need a 30 monitor just to see the opening splash screen in MS Word, those monitors will be $250 or less. I hope. Have you been enjoying our heatwave? Paul Looney San Dimas PS I'm sure you have a hundred good friends, anxious to vote when they know about the petition: www.petitiononline.com/macminsa/petition.html ** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Why Save the Mac Mini
Who will be ? Paul Looney Lets hope noone is waiting for the opportunity ;-) Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Worldwide Business Operations Runtime Revolution Ltd http://www.runrev.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Judy, I remember you telling me about Katheryn at one of the conferences. I agree that (despite possible allegations of age discrimination) 600 year old people should not vote (so far the petition seems to be honest and I like that). Having studied her for about 30 years, you may have lived her life longer than she did! Paul ** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
OK, I signed too. I rarely use my mini, preferring the MacBook Pro, but I still like having it. I thought about adding support for 30 inch Apple cinema display to the wish list (the mini currently drives a 20 inch cinema display but having it run the 30 incher would be fantastic!). However, I'm sure that would add way too much to the cost. I'd be happy with a dedicated graphics processor. On Jul 15, 2007, at 11:42 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy, I remember you telling me about Katheryn at one of the conferences. I agree that (despite possible allegations of age discrimination) 600 year old people should not vote (so far the petition seems to be honest and I like that). Having studied her for about 30 years, you may have lived her life longer than she did! Paul ** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
I think it also supports the 23 Cinema display. Unless one is editing video or doing real high rez graphics, this is the biggest practical size. Just as 15 is the biggest practical laptop... OK, I signed too. I rarely use my mini, preferring the MacBook Pro, but I still like having it. I thought about adding support for 30 inch Apple cinema display to the wish list (the mini currently drives a 20 inch cinema display but having it run the 30 incher would be fantastic!). However, I'm sure that would add way too much to the cost. I'd be happy with a dedicated graphics processor. On Jul 15, 2007, at 11:42 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Well, I must admit (ducking for cover), I'm using the 30 incher primarily as an HDTV (using an El Gato tuner), for watching videos and for (yes, I admit it!) playing games. Apple TV, I don't need no steenkin' Apple TV, I've got my mini. :-))) The gaming function, in particular, pretty much requires a dedicated graphics card. I'd love to be able to just leave my mini hooked up to the 30 inch display full time instead of attaching and detaching the MBP. On Jul 15, 2007, at 12:08 PM, Stephen Barncard wrote: I think it also supports the 23 Cinema display. Unless one is editing video or doing real high rez graphics, this is the biggest practical size. Just as 15 is the biggest practical laptop... OK, I signed too. I rarely use my mini, preferring the MacBook Pro, but I still like having it. I thought about adding support for 30 inch Apple cinema display to the wish list (the mini currently drives a 20 inch cinema display but having it run the 30 incher would be fantastic!). However, I'm sure that would add way too much to the cost. I'd be happy with a dedicated graphics processor. On Jul 15, 2007, at 11:42 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
On 7/12/07 1:30 PM, Chipp Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My own personal saga re: the Mini. I use 3 Duo mini's in a stack in the corner. No monitor, keyboard, or RAM upgrade. Timbuktu loaded on each. For less than $2000 USD, I have 3 Duo processors running 9 of my apps, since I need CPU speed and not RAM. Two of the Duo's have a static IP directly on the internet using a switch to connect to the cable modem, thus accessible to our team from anywhere. I don't use virus protection. I do take advantage of applescript and Safari browser to do some web page detection and data downloads. I use an app with AltBrowser (early version) on a WinXP machine so that a team member can view the pages that are auto-pinged for verification. Thus 3 Duo mini's and 3 WinXP machines that work very smoothly together. We plan to add 2 more mini's in the next few months, and again, remote access is all that is required. Jim Ault Las Vegas ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Peter, No one has said that a Mini is for everyone. But a Mini is the least expensive way to run OS X on a new computer, something that is not at all possible with a PIII. It has the additional advantage for people developing on Rev that it will also run Windows and UNIX - so it is a nice test mule. The Mini makes it possible for people switching to OS X to do so while continuing to use their current keyboards, mice, and monitors - a substantial savings over buying an iMac. There are good used computers, both Mac and PC, that are very cost-effective for many organizations. Indeed, many of the businesses I work with routinely buy refurbished Macs from Power Max in Lake Oswego, Oregon. Picture the bargains when people start upgrading their current Mini-powered workstations and used Minis flood the market. As the most affordable new modular Mac, the Mini allows businesses which need to upgrade regularly, a way to do so twice as often (the first Mini costs about the same as an all-in-one iMac, but the upgrade only requires replacing the Mini - at about half the cost of a current iMac). Even if a Mini's specs trail those of the current iMac, an owner only needs to keep it half as long. Looking ahead: when PIIIs are no longer available, wouldn't it be nice to have lots of previously owned Minis sitting on the shelf ready to take their place? Please help make it so: www.petitiononline.com/macminsa/petition.html 8936 signatures to go! Paul Looney ** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
I am not criticizing anyone who spends their own money on the thing. There is no accounting for tastes. If however its money that is devoted to a purpose that is being spent, and one is administering the funds, buying Minis strikes me as fiscally irresponsible to the point of immorality. While I see your point of view Peter, IMO you are ignoring the total cost of ownership. In my case, the amount of time needed to learn a Linux system, administer it satisfactorily, and keep it maintained, would vastly out-weigh the extra cost of a Mac Mini in the first place. Regards, Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
My two cents worth: We tried for years to save Hypercard, but Apple wouldn't budge. Now we have revolution, which isn't better on all accounts, but in some ways it's lots better. Maybe letting the Mini drop will enable Apple to bring out another model, not better in all accounts, but, in general, better for a lot of people. - Mick (Collins) On Saturday, July 14, 2007, at 11:17AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy (Katheryn), Children, probably OK. Dog votes, phantom votes, duplicate votes, definitely not OK. As of this morning, only 8877 votes to go... When the time comes that we all need a 30 monitor just to see the opening splash screen in MS Word, those monitors will be $250 or less. I hope. Have you been enjoying our heatwave? Paul Looney San Dimas PS I'm sure you have a hundred good friends, anxious to vote when they know about the petition: www.petitiononline.com/macminsa/petition.html ** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
My two cents worth: We tried for years to save Hypercard, but Apple wouldn't budge. Now we have revolution, which isn't better on all accounts, but in some ways it's lots better. Maybe letting the Mini drop will enable Apple to bring out another model, not better in all accounts, but, in general, better for a lot of people. - Mick (Collins) Or maybe they will just conclude no one is interested and make the $1200 iMac the entry computer. I know they did not listen to use about HC (lied to us, in fact). But I think that campaign started after HC was already dropped. Perhaps there is a better chance here. Worth a shot: www.petitiononline.com/macminsa/petition.html Paul Looney ** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
I beg to differ. I use the (pre-Intel) 17 PowerBook (Apple) and because of what I use it for (math tutoring and educational development and demonstration) I could use a smaller laptop but that would not be practical for me for the tutoring aspect and no more practical for the development and demo. Personally, except for the likely price with current tech, I'd love to have a 23 laptop. Makes me shy away from your other claims because you apparently make some assumptions about other people's uses that don't really hold water. On Sunday, July 15, 2007, at 01:09PM, Stephen Barncard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it also supports the 23 Cinema display. Unless one is editing video or doing real high rez graphics, this is the biggest practical size. Just as 15 is the biggest practical laptop... OK, I signed too. I rarely use my mini, preferring the MacBook Pro, but I still like having it. I thought about adding support for 30 inch Apple cinema display to the wish list (the mini currently drives a 20 inch cinema display but having it run the 30 incher would be fantastic!). However, I'm sure that would add way too much to the cost. I'd be happy with a dedicated graphics processor. On Jul 15, 2007, at 11:42 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Mick, To whom was your letter addressed? Paul Looney ** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
On 7/15/07, Peter Alcibiades [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look, here is what I don't get: the combination of poor organizations, running Rev, and Minis. In fact, it seems positively grotesque. Hi Peter, I think you would agree, the Mac has long been the perceived leader in 'ease of use--ease of setup' among all PC's. That said, it is also true they have been a huge player in the K-12 marketplace here in the US. My daughter goes to a school which only has Macs in her grade (5th). For many years, Apple has donated computers to schools. Because of this, they have garnered their fair share of loyalists there. In order to easily add another PC to my daughter's computer class, it would HAVE to be a Mac. More importantly, the teachers know very little of how to configure and run Linux. I think what Paul Looney is trying to do with his petition is to impress upon Apple the necessity of having a low-end solution. Sure, the Mini is not low-end by PC standards, and especially not low-end by refurbished PC's running Linux standards, but it is a product, which, when purchased by schools, can save a few bucks over the more expensive Mac offerings. And some schools have no other options than Macs for certain classrooms. best, Chipp ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Paul, Perhaps I can cast votes legitimately for both of my 6-y.o. children? And less legitimately for our six chihuahuas? @;-) Rats. That's still only 8. No, I don't disagree with the 30 screens note, only that, well, that'll be the day budget-wise for our department. Judy On 7/13/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy, Sorry for the misapprobation and thanks for the vote. I suspect that, the way things are going, secretaries really will need 30 monitors in the (not to distant) future. ;-) When/if the time comes, I hope we don't have to buy Mac Pros to power them. Can you get nine more votes for Save the Mini? I think 10,000 is the magic number and I'm sure a lot of Mini advocates are not even aware of the petition: www.petitiononline.com/macminsa/petition.html Maybe we should have said Save the Mini for the kids! Thank you, again. Paul Looney ** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Judy (Katheryn), Children, probably OK. Dog votes, phantom votes, duplicate votes, definitely not OK. As of this morning, only 8877 votes to go... When the time comes that we all need a 30 monitor just to see the opening splash screen in MS Word, those monitors will be $250 or less. I hope. Have you been enjoying our heatwave? Paul Looney San Dimas PS I'm sure you have a hundred good friends, anxious to vote when they know about the petition: www.petitiononline.com/macminsa/petition.html ** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Why Save the Mac Mini
PS I'm sure you have a hundred good friends, anxious to vote when they know about the petition: www.petitiononline.com/macminsa/petition.html I scored the 999 position on the the petition :-) The Mac Mini is the only mac in my office. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Worldwide Business Operations Runtime Revolution Ltd http://www.runrev.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Lynn, Who will be ? Paul Looney ** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Who was 666? Or 664 (neighbour of the beast)? :) Mark On 14 Jul 2007, at 19:34, Lynn Fredricks wrote: PS I'm sure you have a hundred good friends, anxious to vote when they know about the petition: www.petitiononline.com/macminsa/petition.html I scored the 999 position on the the petition :-) The Mac Mini is the only mac in my office. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Worldwide Business Operations Runtime Revolution Ltd http://www.runrev.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
From: Mark Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Who was 666? Or 664 (neighbour of the beast)? Aw - I think he unsubbed from the mailing list. vbg Scott ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Judy, Sorry for the misapprobation and thanks for the vote. I suspect that, the way things are going, secretaries really will need 30 monitors in the (not to distant) future. ;-) When/if the time comes, I hope we don't have to buy Mac Pros to power them. Can you get nine more votes for Save the Mini? I think 10,000 is the magic number and I'm sure a lot of Mini advocates are not even aware of the petition: www.petitiononline.com/macminsa/petition.html Maybe we should have said Save the Mini for the kids! Thank you, again. Paul Looney ** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Hi Paul, The 13 MacBook has a pleasing, compact form factor, too. And for $1300 gives you 1GB RAM, a 2.16 GHz Core 2 Duo, and 120 GB HD that is easily upgraded by a layman. (The specs spank the Mac Mini of the same price.) It sits, lid closed, nicely and silently on my desk, attached to an IOGEAR 4-port KVM (ironically designed to fit a Mac Mini form factor). A couple keystrokes and I can switch between the Mac, the Windows XP Pro, and the Windows Vista machines. All using the same LCD, speakers, keyboard, and mouse. And I never have to open the lid of the MacBook. I just wouldn't consider purchasing a Mac Mini at ANY of the existing price points. I don't think it should be saved unless redesigned along the macosrumors info and your point #3. But then it wouldn't be a Mac Mini any longer. Re: your reasons to save the Mini: A: Yup, it's the only legal (EULA-consistent? Supported?), sub-$1K option for Mac OS X. But the specs on the $600 model are so poor, I wouldn't consider purchasing one. B, C, D, F, G, H, I, J, K, N: All apply to the MacBook E: By the time you get a decently configured Mini, you're paying just as much as you would for a MacBook that is faster, more upgradeable and better supported. The $600 unit is just a trap... 512MB RAM? Yuck. L: I'm sure mouse and keyboard sales are the last thing on Apple's mind. M: The MacBook has proven to be far more successful as a switcher computer than the Mini. - WJM (aka Bill) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Bill, For $1300 you could have most of the Macbook features and a better keyboard, a mouse, and a much larger monitor. And then, when you decided to upgrade, you could get the then current Mini for $599 (hopefully by then $499) - not another $1300 - and keep your good keyboard, mouse and monitor. I'm not saying the MacBook is bad. It is certainly not. Some people need a portable (I use a 17 PowerBook for both travel and desktop use). Some people need an XServe. But the Mini fills a unique niche that portables don't; for one example, as a headless server. And lets not forget the ability to have a spare Mini or two. Judy Perry (signer # 963) offered some other compelling reasons I had not considered. Thank you, Judy. Of course a more contemporary Mini is desirable. I believe we'll get one - or there will be no Mini at all. If Apple thinks there is interest in the Mini they will release better models, if they think there is no interest in this particular form-factor they will drop it. I see many benefits to the Mini form-factor. So, I think it worth a small bit of time to vote. Apparently others agree; in a little over a day the petition has been signed over a thousand times. I am especially gratified to see so many luminaries from this list on the petition. Bill, please bear in mind, the petition allows for upgrade suggestions as well as an overall vote on the Minis fate. Check it out: www.petitiononline.com/macminsa/petition.html Be counted. Only 8993 votes to go... Paul Looney ** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Peter: Fear not: Ubuntu is running under Parallels on my MacBook :) http://wjm.org/linked/linux-on-macbook.png ...I might add I wouldn't consider doing that on a 512MB Mac Mini. We note that you have: -- XP Pro -- Vista -- MacOS on your desk, and that's great. But, echoing Sherlock Holmes: Did you notice, Watson, the curious thing about the Linux on Bill's desk? But, Holmes, there was no Linux on Bill's desk. No my dear Watson, and that is the curious thing ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
My own personal saga re: the Mini. I went to the Apple store to purchase one, just to have a Mac around to test on. After pricing it, vs the MacBook, it became clear the MacBook was a much better value. I forget the details, but AFAIRecall, after you upgraded the processor to Core Duo and added enough RAM and a decent size HD to make it work, you were already over $1000. So for another couple hundred you get a MacBook-- no problem making that decision. If they were to price the Mini competitively, then I think it would work just fine. But as it stands now, it's way over-priced for what you get, IMO. BTW, I just purchased a Sony All-in-one VGC-LS21N from TigerDirect for my wife for $1,050. It has Intel(r) Core(r) 2 Duo processor, 2GB of RAM, 250GB hard drive, a stunning 1650x1050 19 widescreen display with XBRITE LCD. It runs Business Vista-- and, yes Mark, it runs Vista fast. I love this machine and think Apple should have one like it. Only 1-wire- the AC plug. The keyboard folds up on itself to protect the keys. Very nice Industrial Design. Check it out: http://tinyurl.com/2hmd6m ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Why Save the Mac Mini
Hi Paul, Sorry to disappoint you, but I didn't make those (nice) comments. I think #962 must have made them. I know that my department secretaries would just fall over reading the claim that they need 30 monitors when we're just happy to have a f/t sysadmin hired (after a 2 or 3 year gap). But I signed, and I noticed so did a few other listers... Good luck! We want to buy a mini as our next kiddies' machine/our downstairs desktop. Right now, that honor belongs to our recently-resurrected Cube. But I agree with the bit about separating the devices that makes them easier to upgrade/repair/replace. That's always been one of my concerns with all-in-one's. Judy On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip spare Mini or two. Judy Perry (signer # 963) offered some other compelling reasons I had not considered. Thank you, Judy. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
