Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
Leon Rosenberg wrote: > Very interesting numbers, please allow me a question, you have only 43 > lines of java code in your application, but 1107 lines ruby code... > but are talking about smaller code base with ror? :-) > Forgot to mention. The developers that preceded me put all their code in JSP files rather than Java source files. The TEM files are what we would normally put in JSP files, so they have a combination of HTML, SHTML, and TEM. If you add the Java and JSP counts it will be more accurate, again remembering that there's quite a bit more functionality in the RoR version from both the test and dynamic-content admin points of view. Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
Very interesting numbers, please allow me a question, you have only 43 lines of java code in your application, but 1107 lines ruby code... but are talking about smaller code base with ror? :-) leon On 2/21/06, Dave Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Leon Rosenberg wrote: > > A pretty simple document management system, for a small intranet, I'm > > sure a typical application. It contains view and edit interfaces, > > in the edit interface you can manage document vendors, document type > > (like manual, presentation, advertisement material and so), and you > > can upload document and assign properties to it: the type of the > > document, the vendor of the document and some description. The access > > is limited to restricted users. > > > If I have time in the next day or two I'll just do it and see. Without > making the UI pretty I'd say we're talking 15-30 minutes, but that's > assuming you don't have user access code that already exists. > > The unit and functional tests that RoR creates for you would not fully > exercise the system; if you added on another 30 minutes you could have > very broad coverage. > > In the view interface you are able to select documents by type, or > > vendor or type and vendor, or get the full list. The view interface > > can be seen under http://www2.anotheria.net/konet/cms/showPage? > > > The view side would take longer because I don't know Russian ;) > > The search part by itself would be about 5-10 minutes. > > http://www.italiannewjersey.com/ is a site that I _re_wrote using RoR as > an experiment. I duplicated and extended the functionality in under 4 > hours, including reproducing the style/layout/etc. and breaking up the > presentation side into more manageable chunks. (RoR has "custom tags" > but they're called "partials", as in a "partial template". Using them in > an RHTML (our JSP) is still inside a scriptlet :( > > The vast majority of my time (about 3 hrs) was spent within the view > side, as the source HTML was really crappy. Also, I had a working > implementation to code from; if I had done it from scratch the view side > would have taken me much longer as I really suck at design. > > There are some sections to the site that are not dynamic that should be; > as an experiment I converted one static section to being dynamic and it > took approximately 10 minutes without unit/functional tests. > > Also, it was my first "real" RoR application; a more knowledgeable RoR > person would probably have been quicker. I am _far_ from an expert at > RoR, but I get by. > > I've attempted to append a chunk of a comparison spreadsheet I made up; > I doubt the formatting will work well so I apologize in advance. > > Caveats: > - The J2EE version uses some weird older stuff the original app > designers used, so the numbers may be inflated about 2-5% > - The J2EE version includes no unit or functional tests; the RoR version > has minimal tests (I have numbers for both) > - The J2EE JavaScript includes a complete WYSIWIG HTML editor, the RoR > version includes the complete prototype.js library which is not used. > - The RoR version includes functionality not present in the J2EE > version: three static sections were converted to dynamic (including the > admin side) and there are more games being played with dynamic content > inside the pages. > > HTH, > Dave > > > > Lines Words Chars > J2EE > JSP 1775620559142 > JAVA43 123 1561 > HTM 106 413 4715 > SHTML 1703830593937 > TEM 718 220128420 > XML 17 26 619 > JS 486817325 161706 > Total 923034598 350100 > Total-JS436217273 188394 > > > > > RoR > RB 1107288428196 > RHTML 998 444044158 > YML 40 107 927 > JS 395810851 126538 > Total 610318282 199819 > Total-JS2145743173281 > Total-JS-Test 1600618260130 > Total-JS-Test-Helpers 1579613759743 > > > > > RoR % of J2EE (All) 66% 53% 57% > RoR % of J2EE (Just App)36% 36% 32% > > > > > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
Leon Rosenberg wrote: > A pretty simple document management system, for a small intranet, I'm > sure a typical application. It contains view and edit interfaces, > in the edit interface you can manage document vendors, document type > (like manual, presentation, advertisement material and so), and you > can upload document and assign properties to it: the type of the > document, the vendor of the document and some description. The access > is limited to restricted users. > If I have time in the next day or two I'll just do it and see. Without making the UI pretty I'd say we're talking 15-30 minutes, but that's assuming you don't have user access code that already exists. The unit and functional tests that RoR creates for you would not fully exercise the system; if you added on another 30 minutes you could have very broad coverage. > In the view interface you are able to select documents by type, or > vendor or type and vendor, or get the full list. The view interface > can be seen under http://www2.anotheria.net/konet/cms/showPage? > The view side would take longer because I don't know Russian ;) The search part by itself would be about 5-10 minutes. http://www.italiannewjersey.com/ is a site that I _re_wrote using RoR as an experiment. I duplicated and extended the functionality in under 4 hours, including reproducing the style/layout/etc. and breaking up the presentation side into more manageable chunks. (RoR has "custom tags" but they're called "partials", as in a "partial template". Using them in an RHTML (our JSP) is still inside a scriptlet :( The vast majority of my time (about 3 hrs) was spent within the view side, as the source HTML was really crappy. Also, I had a working implementation to code from; if I had done it from scratch the view side would have taken me much longer as I really suck at design. There are some sections to the site that are not dynamic that should be; as an experiment I converted one static section to being dynamic and it took approximately 10 minutes without unit/functional tests. Also, it was my first "real" RoR application; a more knowledgeable RoR person would probably have been quicker. I am _far_ from an expert at RoR, but I get by. I've attempted to append a chunk of a comparison spreadsheet I made up; I doubt the formatting will work well so I apologize in advance. Caveats: - The J2EE version uses some weird older stuff the original app designers used, so the numbers may be inflated about 2-5% - The J2EE version includes no unit or functional tests; the RoR version has minimal tests (I have numbers for both) - The J2EE JavaScript includes a complete WYSIWIG HTML editor, the RoR version includes the complete prototype.js library which is not used. - The RoR version includes functionality not present in the J2EE version: three static sections were converted to dynamic (including the admin side) and there are more games being played with dynamic content inside the pages. HTH, Dave Lines Words Chars J2EE JSP 1775620559142 JAVA43 123 1561 HTM 106 413 4715 SHTML 1703830593937 TEM 718 220128420 XML 17 26 619 JS 486817325 161706 Total 923034598 350100 Total-JS436217273 188394 RoR RB 1107288428196 RHTML 998 444044158 YML 40 107 927 JS 395810851 126538 Total 610318282 199819 Total-JS2145743173281 Total-JS-Test 1600618260130 Total-JS-Test-Helpers 1579613759743 RoR % of J2EE (All) 66% 53% 57% RoR % of J2EE (Just App)36% 36% 32%
Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
Dave, Sorry for bothering you again, but can we go it through on an example? Lets assume I hava a very small website to build (I actually did that one, so I know the real effort and duration). A pretty simple document management system, for a small intranet, I'm sure a typical application. It contains view and edit interfaces, in the edit interface you can manage document vendors, document type (like manual, presentation, advertisement material and so), and you can upload document and assign properties to it: the type of the document, the vendor of the document and some description. The access is limited to restricted users. In the view interface you are able to select documents by type, or vendor or type and vendor, or get the full list. The view interface can be seen under http://www2.anotheria.net/konet/cms/showPage? Can you give me an estimation how long would it be to program this in java and ruby? The app is for very small number of customers, so scaleability is not a requirement, files and data are stored in the file system. Maybe with real estimations I would be able to understand the benefits :-) thanx for your time regards Leon On 2/21/06, Dave Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Leon Rosenberg wrote: > > I rather ment things like interception/reflection or/and AOP :-) > > > Ah. > > Lots of reflection. AOP is being actively discussed for Ruby2. Pure-Ruby > implementations for simple AOP exist but I've not used them. > > Pardon me for being devils advocate, but how do you measure it? > > Talking about the codebase, are you talking about functional code or > > whole code? I agree that 20-30% of java code is dump (getters/setters > > and so on) but dump code is generated by an IDE so it's not an issue. > > How fast are "fast" development cycles? > > > Well, I have measured things in various ways. > > Codebase size: yep, my IDE will generate a lot, and this makes Java > bearable. But the code is still there; just because I don't type it > doesn't mean I don't have to comprehend it. Character-wise my Ruby/RoR > code is about 1/3-1/2 the size of feature-comparable J2EE apps. That's a > lot less "stuff" I have to look at even if it was auto-generated. > > Development time: I've coded both J2EE=>RoR and RoR=>J2EE. I've coded > just RoR and just J2EE apps. It usually takes me about 1/2 the time to > code an RoR application, but that's just an average. > > If I was more adept with AppFuse (or Trails, I still don't remember > which is which) I suspect the timing would be more similar. > > As far as I understand you have no strong typing, right? > > > That is correct at this point. Obviously you can check types within a > method. > > Dynamic- vs. strong-typing is one of those arguments that has gone, and > will go, on forever. > > I think strong typing is great for large, distributed teams of generally > average programmers. I think dynamic typing is great for smaller, > "better" development teams, and compiler optimization. For instance, in > Common Lisp I'll often write stuff with no thought of typing then as > development progresses I'll add typing info. > > The canonical "Languages for the Masses" vs. "Languages for Smart > People" article is at: > > http://www.paulgraham.com/vanlfsp.html > > It's somewhat deliberately provocative, but interesting. > > Another consideration for me, at least, is that Ruby "feels" better. > Part of that is simply personality, part of it is that it's quite a bit > more like what I'm used to (SmallTalk, Lisp, Forth). I have a LOT more > fun programming in Ruby than Java. This is an intangible, but an > important one for me. > > Bear in mind that I still recommend PHP for large-scale production > sites, but I am slowly using RoR for more small-ish sites. > > Dave > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
Leon Rosenberg wrote: > I rather ment things like interception/reflection or/and AOP :-) > Ah. Lots of reflection. AOP is being actively discussed for Ruby2. Pure-Ruby implementations for simple AOP exist but I've not used them. > Pardon me for being devils advocate, but how do you measure it? > Talking about the codebase, are you talking about functional code or > whole code? I agree that 20-30% of java code is dump (getters/setters > and so on) but dump code is generated by an IDE so it's not an issue. > How fast are "fast" development cycles? > Well, I have measured things in various ways. Codebase size: yep, my IDE will generate a lot, and this makes Java bearable. But the code is still there; just because I don't type it doesn't mean I don't have to comprehend it. Character-wise my Ruby/RoR code is about 1/3-1/2 the size of feature-comparable J2EE apps. That's a lot less "stuff" I have to look at even if it was auto-generated. Development time: I've coded both J2EE=>RoR and RoR=>J2EE. I've coded just RoR and just J2EE apps. It usually takes me about 1/2 the time to code an RoR application, but that's just an average. If I was more adept with AppFuse (or Trails, I still don't remember which is which) I suspect the timing would be more similar. > As far as I understand you have no strong typing, right? > That is correct at this point. Obviously you can check types within a method. Dynamic- vs. strong-typing is one of those arguments that has gone, and will go, on forever. I think strong typing is great for large, distributed teams of generally average programmers. I think dynamic typing is great for smaller, "better" development teams, and compiler optimization. For instance, in Common Lisp I'll often write stuff with no thought of typing then as development progresses I'll add typing info. The canonical "Languages for the Masses" vs. "Languages for Smart People" article is at: http://www.paulgraham.com/vanlfsp.html It's somewhat deliberately provocative, but interesting. Another consideration for me, at least, is that Ruby "feels" better. Part of that is simply personality, part of it is that it's quite a bit more like what I'm used to (SmallTalk, Lisp, Forth). I have a LOT more fun programming in Ruby than Java. This is an intangible, but an important one for me. Bear in mind that I still recommend PHP for large-scale production sites, but I am slowly using RoR for more small-ish sites. Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
On 2/20/06, Dave Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Leon Rosenberg wrote: > > well... maybe you are a totally cool development team, > A yeah. > > Okay, not really ;) > > following call stacks, debugging... distribution and so on > > would be a real mess... but, as I told before, I never tried myself. > > > Call stacks are no issue. If you know the API and the chain of events I > really haven't had any problems. I rather ment things like interception/reflection or/and AOP :-) > > But what are the benefits for you to use ror? > > > _Extremely_ fast development cycles, _substantially_ smaller codebase. > You see numbers like 10x thrown around; I wouldn't go that far, but at a > minimum I personally see 4-8x in general and about a third the codebase. Pardon me for being devils advocate, but how do you measure it? Talking about the codebase, are you talking about functional code or whole code? I agree that 20-30% of java code is dump (getters/setters and so on) but dump code is generated by an IDE so it's not an issue. How fast are "fast" development cycles? > > Code reviews are the same as in any language. > > Programmatic code checking in completely non-existent :( As far as I understand you have no strong typing, right? > > Refactoring support essentially non-existent, although I tend to need > less, and with the smaller codebase they are less painful. > Dynamically-typed languages may be harder to deal with in that regard. > > _Completely_ moving target: stuff is happening WAY too fast to keep up with. > > I do quite a bit of functional prototyping in RoR and then convert to > J2EE, which makes some of my concerns go away since I'm using it > primarily as a specifications document rather than an implementation model. > > Dave > Leon > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
Leon Rosenberg wrote: > But... from reading the docs, the language itself is as outdated as > prolog or perl. You have almost no oo-concepts, and all co-concepts > are missing completely. Uh, how do you figure that? It's largely modeled around SmallTalk. It's quite a bit more OOP than most things one runs across. That said, it still pales in comparison to CLOS. > for a one man show... if you are a java expert you will be better with > java, otherwise take php, it's easier to learn, has more features, > more support, more examples, more whatsoever... So where is the place > of RoR in the web-world? > I don't think I'm a Java "expert", but I ain't bad... I'm more productive until Ruby/RoR simply because the language doesn't handcuff me: I spend more time working on the problem than the code. Granted, I am a SmallTalk and Lisp oldbie from way back (sure wish Ruby had macros :/ so it seems a much more natural language to me than most others have. Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
Leon Rosenberg wrote: > well... maybe you are a totally cool development team, A yeah. Okay, not really ;) > following call stacks, debugging... distribution and so on > would be a real mess... but, as I told before, I never tried myself. > Call stacks are no issue. If you know the API and the chain of events I really haven't had any problems. > But what are the benefits for you to use ror? > _Extremely_ fast development cycles, _substantially_ smaller codebase. You see numbers like 10x thrown around; I wouldn't go that far, but at a minimum I personally see 4-8x in general and about a third the codebase. Code reviews are the same as in any language. Programmatic code checking in completely non-existent :( Refactoring support essentially non-existent, although I tend to need less, and with the smaller codebase they are less painful. Dynamically-typed languages may be harder to deal with in that regard. _Completely_ moving target: stuff is happening WAY too fast to keep up with. I do quite a bit of functional prototyping in RoR and then convert to J2EE, which makes some of my concerns go away since I'm using it primarily as a specifications document rather than an implementation model. Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
well... maybe you are a totally cool development team, maybe I'm completely wrong either... I just had the feeling that making code reviews, following call stacks, debugging... distribution and so on would be a real mess... but, as I told before, I never tried myself. But what are the benefits for you to use ror? leon On 2/20/06, Dave Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Leon Rosenberg wrote: > > On 2/20/06, Dave Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> Leon Rosenberg wrote: > >> > >>> Well RoR is a wonderful thing if you are playing. But you can't > >>> develop and you have no chance to maintain a serious application with it. > >>> > >> I'm having zero issues maintaining several, although they are not > >> high-load apps yet. > > how many developers are/were working on each? > > > Most of them are a three-person team but we have one that has a Small > Wad (about a dozen total) working in fits and starts as the mood strikes > them, under Subversion. > > I'm far more concerned about scalability than anything else; we've had > essentially zero issues related to team size. One of the apps is going > to be converted into a Spring/J2EE stack for sure; wait-and-see on the rest. > > I guess I don't see what the big deal is, but we are a fairly > disciplined group of developers, several of us with large-scale Lisp > experience, which might help, I dunno. > > Dave > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
Ok, before I get into that I must admin that I never developed one, just read through the http://www.rubyonrails.org/ - documentations and looked at example apps. So I of course might be completely wrong. In any case it's just a personal opinion... But... from reading the docs, the language itself is as outdated as prolog or perl. You have almost no oo-concepts, and all co-concepts are missing completely. Sure you can write a webapp in perl, but who does it? Only people who are already programming perl for years, and even they are giving it up. Alone the fact that you have no chances for proper getter and setter (and the hidden overriding concept will be a debugging disaster :-) ) disqualifies RoR for usage in teams. And for a one man show... if you are a java expert you will be better with java, otherwise take php, it's easier to learn, has more features, more support, more examples, more whatsoever... So where is the place of RoR in the web-world? just my 2cents :-) leon On 2/20/06, Garner, Shawn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>But you can't develop and you have no chance to maintain a serious > >>application with it. > > Can you go more into this? > > Shawn > > -Original Message- > From: Leon Rosenberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 2:03 PM > To: Struts Users Mailing List > Subject: Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications > > Well RoR is a wonderful thing if you are playing. But you can't > develop and you have no chance to maintain a serious application with > it. So the proper question would be RoR or php and php would probably > win :-) > > Leon > > On 2/20/06, Garner, Shawn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Can anyone give me pros and cons of using Ruby on Rails verses a Java Base > > Web Application (Struts, JSF, etc)? > > > > Seems like Rails is moving towards less or no configuration files while > > JSF/Shale is leaning towards more. > > > > > > > > Shawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > This email may contain confidential material. > > If you were not an intended recipient, > > Please notify the sender and delete all copies. > > We may monitor email to and from our network. > > > > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > This email may contain confidential material. > If you were not an intended recipient, > Please notify the sender and delete all copies. > We may monitor email to and from our network. > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
Leon Rosenberg wrote: > On 2/20/06, Dave Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Leon Rosenberg wrote: >> >>> Well RoR is a wonderful thing if you are playing. But you can't >>> develop and you have no chance to maintain a serious application with it. >>> >> I'm having zero issues maintaining several, although they are not >> high-load apps yet. > how many developers are/were working on each? > Most of them are a three-person team but we have one that has a Small Wad (about a dozen total) working in fits and starts as the mood strikes them, under Subversion. I'm far more concerned about scalability than anything else; we've had essentially zero issues related to team size. One of the apps is going to be converted into a Spring/J2EE stack for sure; wait-and-see on the rest. I guess I don't see what the big deal is, but we are a fairly disciplined group of developers, several of us with large-scale Lisp experience, which might help, I dunno. Dave
Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
On 2/20/06, Dave Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Leon Rosenberg wrote: > > Well RoR is a wonderful thing if you are playing. But you can't > > develop and you have no chance to maintain a serious application with it. > I'm having zero issues maintaining several, although they are not > high-load apps yet. > how many developers are/were working on each? Leon > The thing I dislike most about it is moving back to scriptlets, although > this is largely optional and there are ways around it. > > Dave > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
Elaborating on the benefits of IOC is way beyond the scope of a simple email on a simple mailing list. There are books for that purpose. Once you've decided to use Spring, it provides first class integration with Hibernate. I won't bore you with the benefits of choosing Hibernate either, that's why we have books and articles on that end as well. Among the wonderful things you can do with Middlegen, I have had great success with the plugin for generating Hibernate mapping files from a JDBC source: http://www.hibernate.org/98.html On a recent project, the core developers extended Middlegen to generate both the DAO and initial shell of a service layer. Combine that with a rather thorough and complete set of unit tests and they are able to move the project along as requirements grew and the project matured, all the while guaranteeing 100% test coverage and 100% backward compatibility with the changing API. As I was implementing the front end and facades, it was trivial to hook into any of the generated service objects and get whatever I wanted on the back end. I just love autowiring! It is a rather impressive stack and it would take a lot to convince me that there is a better solution. -- James Mitchell EdgeTech, Inc. http://edgetechservices.net/ 678.910.8017 Skype: jmitchtx On Feb 20, 2006, at 3:35 PM, Garner, Shawn wrote: Can you elaborate on Spring and Middlegen? I've looked at their websites (Spring a couple times before) but I fail to see how they are beneficial to use. Shawn -Original Message- From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 2:26 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications Struts (right now!) let's you setup a single action mapping (wild card mapping) and a single LazyDynaBean, and then you can add as many Actions and JSPs as you like (at runtime no doubt) and your changes are instantly available without ever rebooting or touching xml again. Between that and the Spring/Hibernate/Middlegen love boat and you'll think twice about Rails. -- James Mitchell EdgeTech, Inc. http://edgetechservices.net/ 678.910.8017 Skype: jmitchtx On Feb 20, 2006, at 2:10 PM, Garner, Shawn wrote: Can anyone give me pros and cons of using Ruby on Rails verses a Java Base Web Application (Struts, JSF, etc)? Seems like Rails is moving towards less or no configuration files while JSF/Shale is leaning towards more. Shawn * * ** This email may contain confidential material. If you were not an intended recipient, Please notify the sender and delete all copies. We may monitor email to and from our network. * * ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** ** This email may contain confidential material. If you were not an intended recipient, Please notify the sender and delete all copies. We may monitor email to and from our network. ** ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
Leon Rosenberg wrote: > Well RoR is a wonderful thing if you are playing. But you can't > develop and you have no chance to maintain a serious application with it. I'm having zero issues maintaining several, although they are not high-load apps yet. The thing I dislike most about it is moving back to scriptlets, although this is largely optional and there are ways around it. Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
James Mitchell wrote: > Struts (right now!) let's you setup a single action mapping (wild card > mapping) and a single LazyDynaBean, and then you can add as many > Actions and JSPs as you like (at runtime no doubt) and your changes > are instantly available without ever rebooting or touching xml again. > > Between that and the Spring/Hibernate/Middlegen love boat and you'll > think twice about Rails. The AppFuse stack is also pretty nice. AppFuse? Trails? Now I don't remember which is which. Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
Can you elaborate on Spring and Middlegen? I've looked at their websites (Spring a couple times before) but I fail to see how they are beneficial to use. Shawn -Original Message- From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 2:26 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications Struts (right now!) let's you setup a single action mapping (wild card mapping) and a single LazyDynaBean, and then you can add as many Actions and JSPs as you like (at runtime no doubt) and your changes are instantly available without ever rebooting or touching xml again. Between that and the Spring/Hibernate/Middlegen love boat and you'll think twice about Rails. -- James Mitchell EdgeTech, Inc. http://edgetechservices.net/ 678.910.8017 Skype: jmitchtx On Feb 20, 2006, at 2:10 PM, Garner, Shawn wrote: > Can anyone give me pros and cons of using Ruby on Rails verses a > Java Base > Web Application (Struts, JSF, etc)? > > Seems like Rails is moving towards less or no configuration files > while > JSF/Shale is leaning towards more. > > > > Shawn > > > > > ** > ** > This email may contain confidential material. > If you were not an intended recipient, > Please notify the sender and delete all copies. > We may monitor email to and from our network. > ** > ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email may contain confidential material. If you were not an intended recipient, Please notify the sender and delete all copies. We may monitor email to and from our network. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
>>But you can't develop and you have no chance to maintain a serious >>application with it. Can you go more into this? Shawn -Original Message- From: Leon Rosenberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 2:03 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications Well RoR is a wonderful thing if you are playing. But you can't develop and you have no chance to maintain a serious application with it. So the proper question would be RoR or php and php would probably win :-) Leon On 2/20/06, Garner, Shawn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Can anyone give me pros and cons of using Ruby on Rails verses a Java Base > Web Application (Struts, JSF, etc)? > > Seems like Rails is moving towards less or no configuration files while > JSF/Shale is leaning towards more. > > > > Shawn > > > > > > This email may contain confidential material. > If you were not an intended recipient, > Please notify the sender and delete all copies. > We may monitor email to and from our network. > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email may contain confidential material. If you were not an intended recipient, Please notify the sender and delete all copies. We may monitor email to and from our network. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
Struts (right now!) let's you setup a single action mapping (wild card mapping) and a single LazyDynaBean, and then you can add as many Actions and JSPs as you like (at runtime no doubt) and your changes are instantly available without ever rebooting or touching xml again. Between that and the Spring/Hibernate/Middlegen love boat and you'll think twice about Rails. -- James Mitchell EdgeTech, Inc. http://edgetechservices.net/ 678.910.8017 Skype: jmitchtx On Feb 20, 2006, at 2:10 PM, Garner, Shawn wrote: Can anyone give me pros and cons of using Ruby on Rails verses a Java Base Web Application (Struts, JSF, etc)? Seems like Rails is moving towards less or no configuration files while JSF/Shale is leaning towards more. Shawn ** ** This email may contain confidential material. If you were not an intended recipient, Please notify the sender and delete all copies. We may monitor email to and from our network. ** ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
Well RoR is a wonderful thing if you are playing. But you can't develop and you have no chance to maintain a serious application with it. So the proper question would be RoR or php and php would probably win :-) Leon On 2/20/06, Garner, Shawn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Can anyone give me pros and cons of using Ruby on Rails verses a Java Base > Web Application (Struts, JSF, etc)? > > Seems like Rails is moving towards less or no configuration files while > JSF/Shale is leaning towards more. > > > > Shawn > > > > > > This email may contain confidential material. > If you were not an intended recipient, > Please notify the sender and delete all copies. > We may monitor email to and from our network. > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[OT] Ruby on rails VS Java Based Web Applications
Can anyone give me pros and cons of using Ruby on Rails verses a Java Base Web Application (Struts, JSF, etc)? Seems like Rails is moving towards less or no configuration files while JSF/Shale is leaning towards more. Shawn This email may contain confidential material. If you were not an intended recipient, Please notify the sender and delete all copies. We may monitor email to and from our network.
