date:20130218


On 17/02/2013 20:08, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

Hi Francesco,
let me tell you what I have now.
I implemented a feedback web application for municipial use with 
C2.11. The app is built so that the administrator can create forms 
picking fields and controls he/she needs. These setting are saved into 
db. The end-user app reads these settings from db, creates XML 
definition and through XSL transforms these settings into valid Cforms 
definition/template and finally creates forms wanted out of this all.


This is highly dynamic system where we also implemented special data 
model where horizontal tables are converted into vertical direction, 
that is, there is one row per fom field, not a column.


I was warned about using C2.11 for this, but I wanted to use it anyway 
because I was familiar with it already. Now I would like to get rid of 
C2.11 but I really don't know how. I would like to switch into C3 but 
that is something I am not familiar with.


I could go with the stream and use AJAX and like jQuery.. still i 
would have the same problem - how to create controls out of XML 
definition. So XML driven form platform is something I would prefer, 
you see, I would only need XSLT.


I hope I made my needs little clearer.


Yes, definitely.
*
*Basically, you need to dynamically build some web forms from an XML 
definition you get from an external source: let me say that this is a 
perfect suite for C2.1 (and C2.2) with CForms.


Now, since you want to move away from C2.1 (and not for C2.2 I guess), 
you'd like to have some tools that, parsing the XML form definition 
generates a Wicket form, with all controls full featured.


While this is perfectly feasible without C3 (I did something similar, 
even though limited, in Apache Syncope), I'd think you could empower the 
integration between C3 and Wicket for this purpose. Only, consider that 
there is nothing implemented yet in this respect, so you would be the first.


Regards.


17.2.2013 20:30, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

On 15/02/2013 22:11, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

Hi,
I have an application using dynamic Cforms (C2.11), that is, the 
Cforms definition and templates are created from dynamic XML through 
XSL.


Can this be done with C3 and wickets?
From somewhere I read about the fact that with Apache Wickets you 
don't need any XML..


Hi Mika,
what do you want to achieve exactly?

Apache Wicket is a component-based framework for developing web 
applications: I know from their project site that the project claims 
a refreshing lack of XML, and I also know that Wicket fully 
supports form processing.


From the other side, Cocoon 3.0 features Wicket integration (more 
details at [1]) that can help achieving some particular use cases.


Regards.

[1] 
http://cocoon.apache.org/3.0/reference/html-single/index.html#wicket-integration


--
Francesco Chicchiriccò

ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/

Re: from Cforms to Wicket


On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

How about some XForms implementation like this http://www.betterform.de?
Sounds promising..


I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...

Regards.

--
Francesco Chicchiriccò

ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/


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Re: from Cforms to Wicket


Yeah,
I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002 or 
2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..


This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it actually 
implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use Xforms 
definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It actually 
resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to be under 
development taking contemporary challenges into account.


But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?

I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how to 
start.


The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper development 
tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++. And I never 
realized how to do debugging..



- mika -


18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

How about some XForms implementation like this http://www.betterform.de?
Sounds promising..


I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...

Regards.




-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org
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Re: from Cforms to Wicket

Why using CForms at all ? If you use XSLT you can transform dynamic XML
data into HTML5 native forms templates.

Greetings,
-Greg


2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen m...@digikartta.net

  Yep,
 sounds like a lot of work and like re-inventing the wheel..

 - mika -


 18.2.2013 10:47, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

 On 17/02/2013 20:08, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

 Hi Francesco,
 let me tell you what I have now.
 I implemented a feedback web application for municipial use with C2.11.
 The app is built so that the administrator can create forms picking fields
 and controls he/she needs. These setting are saved into db. The end-user
 app reads these settings from db, creates XML definition and through XSL
 transforms these settings into valid Cforms definition/template and finally
 creates forms wanted out of this all.

 This is highly dynamic system where we also implemented special data model
 where horizontal tables are converted into vertical direction, that is,
 there is one row per fom field, not a column.

 I was warned about using C2.11 for this, but I wanted to use it anyway
 because I was familiar with it already. Now I would like to get rid of
 C2.11 but I really don't know how. I would like to switch into C3 but that
 is something I am not familiar with.

 I could go with the stream and use AJAX and like jQuery.. still i would
 have the same problem - how to create controls out of XML definition. So
 XML driven form platform is something I would prefer, you see, I would only
 need XSLT.

 I hope I made my needs little clearer.


 Yes, definitely.
 *
 *Basically, you need to dynamically build some web forms from an XML
 definition you get from an external source: let me say that this is a
 perfect suite for C2.1 (and C2.2) with CForms.

 Now, since you want to move away from C2.1 (and not for C2.2 I guess),
 you'd like to have some tools that, parsing the XML form definition
 generates a Wicket form, with all controls full featured.

 While this is perfectly feasible without C3 (I did something similar, even
 though limited, in Apache Syncope), I'd think you could empower the
 integration between C3 and Wicket for this purpose. Only, consider that
 there is nothing implemented yet in this respect, so you would be the first.

 Regards.

 17.2.2013 20:30, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

 On 15/02/2013 22:11, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

 Hi,
 I have an application using dynamic Cforms (C2.11), that is, the Cforms
 definition and templates are created from dynamic XML through XSL.

 Can this be done with C3 and wickets?
 From somewhere I read about the fact that with Apache Wickets you don't
 need any XML..


 Hi Mika,
 what do you want to achieve exactly?

 Apache Wicket is a component-based framework for developing web
 applications: I know from their project site that the project claims a
 refreshing lack of XML, and I also know that Wicket fully supports form
 processing.

 From the other side, Cocoon 3.0 features Wicket integration (more details
 at [1]) that can help achieving some particular use cases.

 Regards.

 [1]
 http://cocoon.apache.org/3.0/reference/html-single/index.html#wicket-integration

  --
 Francesco Chicchiriccò

 ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC 
 Memberhttp://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/

Re: from Cforms to Wicket


On 18/02/2013 13:09, gelo1234 wrote:
Why using CForms at all ? If you use XSLT you can transform dynamic 
XML data into HTML5 native forms templates.


HTML5 would be an option, indeed.

Regards.

2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen m...@digikartta.net 
mailto:m...@digikartta.net


Yep,
sounds like a lot of work and like re-inventing the wheel..

- mika -


18.2.2013 10:47, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

On 17/02/2013 20:08, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

Hi Francesco,
let me tell you what I have now.
I implemented a feedback web application for municipial use with
C2.11. The app is built so that the administrator can create
forms picking fields and controls he/she needs. These setting
are saved into db. The end-user app reads these settings from
db, creates XML definition and through XSL transforms these
settings into valid Cforms definition/template and finally
creates forms wanted out of this all.

This is highly dynamic system where we also implemented special
data model where horizontal tables are converted into vertical
direction, that is, there is one row per fom field, not a column.

I was warned about using C2.11 for this, but I wanted to use it
anyway because I was familiar with it already. Now I would like
to get rid of C2.11 but I really don't know how. I would like to
switch into C3 but that is something I am not familiar with.

I could go with the stream and use AJAX and like jQuery.. still
i would have the same problem - how to create controls out of
XML definition. So XML driven form platform is something I would
prefer, you see, I would only need XSLT.

I hope I made my needs little clearer.


Yes, definitely.
*
*Basically, you need to dynamically build some web forms from an
XML definition you get from an external source: let me say that
this is a perfect suite for C2.1 (and C2.2) with CForms.

Now, since you want to move away from C2.1 (and not for C2.2 I
guess), you'd like to have some tools that, parsing the XML form
definition generates a Wicket form, with all controls full featured.

While this is perfectly feasible without C3 (I did something
similar, even though limited, in Apache Syncope), I'd think you
could empower the integration between C3 and Wicket for this
purpose. Only, consider that there is nothing implemented yet in
this respect, so you would be the first.

Regards.


17.2.2013 20:30, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

On 15/02/2013 22:11, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

Hi,
I have an application using dynamic Cforms (C2.11), that is,
the Cforms definition and templates are created from dynamic
XML through XSL.

Can this be done with C3 and wickets?
From somewhere I read about the fact that with Apache Wickets
you don't need any XML..


Hi Mika,
what do you want to achieve exactly?

Apache Wicket is a component-based framework for developing web
applications: I know from their project site that the project
claims a refreshing lack of XML, and I also know that Wicket
fully supports form processing.

From the other side, Cocoon 3.0 features Wicket integration
(more details at [1]) that can help achieving some particular
use cases.

Regards.

[1]

http://cocoon.apache.org/3.0/reference/html-single/index.html#wicket-integration
-- 
Francesco Chicchiriccò


ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/  http://people.apache.org/%7Eilgrosso/






--
Francesco Chicchiriccò

ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/

Re: from Cforms to Wicket

Is HTML5 something you can really use already having wide range of 
browsers supported?

(Or at least FF, IE and Chrome)

- mika -


18.2.2013 14:09, gelo1234 kirjoitti:
Why using CForms at all ? If you use XSLT you can transform dynamic 
XML data into HTML5 native forms templates.


Greetings,
-Greg


2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen m...@digikartta.net 
mailto:m...@digikartta.net


Yep,
sounds like a lot of work and like re-inventing the wheel..

- mika -


18.2.2013 10:47, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

On 17/02/2013 20:08, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

Hi Francesco,
let me tell you what I have now.
I implemented a feedback web application for municipial use with
C2.11. The app is built so that the administrator can create
forms picking fields and controls he/she needs. These setting
are saved into db. The end-user app reads these settings from
db, creates XML definition and through XSL transforms these
settings into valid Cforms definition/template and finally
creates forms wanted out of this all.

This is highly dynamic system where we also implemented special
data model where horizontal tables are converted into vertical
direction, that is, there is one row per fom field, not a column.

I was warned about using C2.11 for this, but I wanted to use it
anyway because I was familiar with it already. Now I would like
to get rid of C2.11 but I really don't know how. I would like to
switch into C3 but that is something I am not familiar with.

I could go with the stream and use AJAX and like jQuery.. still
i would have the same problem - how to create controls out of
XML definition. So XML driven form platform is something I would
prefer, you see, I would only need XSLT.

I hope I made my needs little clearer.


Yes, definitely.
*
*Basically, you need to dynamically build some web forms from an
XML definition you get from an external source: let me say that
this is a perfect suite for C2.1 (and C2.2) with CForms.

Now, since you want to move away from C2.1 (and not for C2.2 I
guess), you'd like to have some tools that, parsing the XML form
definition generates a Wicket form, with all controls full featured.

While this is perfectly feasible without C3 (I did something
similar, even though limited, in Apache Syncope), I'd think you
could empower the integration between C3 and Wicket for this
purpose. Only, consider that there is nothing implemented yet in
this respect, so you would be the first.

Regards.


17.2.2013 20:30, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

On 15/02/2013 22:11, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

Hi,
I have an application using dynamic Cforms (C2.11), that is,
the Cforms definition and templates are created from dynamic
XML through XSL.

Can this be done with C3 and wickets?
From somewhere I read about the fact that with Apache Wickets
you don't need any XML..


Hi Mika,
what do you want to achieve exactly?

Apache Wicket is a component-based framework for developing web
applications: I know from their project site that the project
claims a refreshing lack of XML, and I also know that Wicket
fully supports form processing.

From the other side, Cocoon 3.0 features Wicket integration
(more details at [1]) that can help achieving some particular
use cases.

Regards.

[1]

http://cocoon.apache.org/3.0/reference/html-single/index.html#wicket-integration
-- 
Francesco Chicchiriccò


ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/  http://people.apache.org/%7Eilgrosso/

Re: from Cforms to Wicket

IMHO, any kind of *Forms* technology is not a viable solution today in the
long term. I wouldn't bet on XForms or any other non-standard/standard
framework/technology as long as you just don't want to play around with it.

The only valid standard today for View part of MVC/MVVP is ... HTML5.

Even Oracle found it right, by introducing HTML5 native tags that are
JSF-compatible (in JSF 2.2), not the JSF-only tags (as in JSF 2.1).

All big players: Oracle, IBM, Microsoft, Adobe have switched their
development
efforts to HTML5.

Greetings,
Greg





2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen m...@digikartta.net

 Yeah,
 I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002 or
 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..

 This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it actually
 implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use Xforms
 definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It actually
 resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to be under
 development taking contemporary challenges into account.

 But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?

 I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how to
 start.

 The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper development
 tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++. And I never realized
 how to do debugging..


 - mika -


 18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

  On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

 How about some XForms implementation like this http://www.betterform.de?
 Sounds promising..


 I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...

 Regards.



 --**--**-
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
 users-unsubscribe@cocoon.**apache.orgusers-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org

Re: from Cforms to Wicket


On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

Yeah,
I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002 
or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..


This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it 
actually implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use 
Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It 
actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to 
be under development taking contemporary challenges into account.


under development with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year back [1]


But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?


It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to put on this task.
Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in you in the XML 
side if the job.


I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how to 
start.


The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper 
development tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++. And 
I never realized how to do debugging..


[1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/


18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
How about some XForms implementation like this 
http://www.betterform.de?

Sounds promising..


I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...

Regards.


--
Francesco Chicchiriccò

ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/


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RE: from Cforms to Wicket

2013-02-18 Thread Robby Pelssers

The only thing I wonder about is...

Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5 serialization for all I know.  So does 
someone using Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon and how did you 
accomplish this.

Cheers,
Robby

-Original Message-
From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:m...@digikartta.net] 
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
To: users@cocoon.apache.org
Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket

Ok,
thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.

- mika -


18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
 On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
 Yeah,
 I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002 
 or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..

 This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it 
 actually implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use 
 Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It 
 actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to 
 be under development taking contemporary challenges into account.

 under development with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year back [1]

 But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?

 It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to put on this 
 task.
 Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in you in the 
 XML side if the job.

 I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how 
 to start.

 The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper 
 development tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++.
 And I never realized how to do debugging..

 [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/

 18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:
 On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:
 How about some XForms implementation like this 
 http://www.betterform.de?
 Sounds promising..

 I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...

 Regards.



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To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org




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Re: from Cforms to Wicket


On 18/02/2013 13:45, Robby Pelssers wrote:

The only thing I wonder about is...

Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5 serialization for all I know.  So does 
someone using Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon and how did you 
accomplish this.


Cocoon 2.1 is going to support HTML 5 serialization in 2.1.12 [1] - 
already available in 2.1.12-dev.


Cocoon 3's XMLSerializer [2] can be easily extended to support HTML 5: 
just need to add


public static XMLSerializer createHTML5Serializer();

similar to existing createXHTMLSerializer.

Regards.

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COCOON-2310
[2] 
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/cocoon/cocoon3/trunk/cocoon-sax/src/main/java/org/apache/cocoon/sax/component/XMLSerializer.java


--
Francesco Chicchiriccò

ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/


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Re: from Cforms to Wicket

Also HTML5 support for IE seems to be weak, even for IE9. There are 
still lot of people using IE8 or even older browser + lot of people in 
some sort of governmental offices using their own versions..

We can't sell apps without IE-support, absolutely no way.

http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/

- mika -


18.2.2013 14:45, Robby Pelssers kirjoitti:

The only thing I wonder about is...

Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5 serialization for all I know.  So does 
someone using Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon and how did you 
accomplish this.

Cheers,
Robby

-Original Message-
From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:m...@digikartta.net]
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
To: users@cocoon.apache.org
Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket

Ok,
thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.

- mika -


18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

Yeah,
I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002
or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..

This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it
actually implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use
Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It
actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to
be under development taking contemporary challenges into account.

under development with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year back [1]


But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?

It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to put on this
task.
Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in you in the
XML side if the job.


I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how
to start.

The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper
development tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++.
And I never realized how to do debugging..

[1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/


18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

How about some XForms implementation like this
http://www.betterform.de?
Sounds promising..

I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...

Regards.


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org
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Re: from Cforms to Wicket

HTML5 in its basics is a superset of HTML4. If you don't use HTML5-specific
tags/spec you go well with old good HTML4.

The original issue was NOT whether to use HTML5 or old HTML, but whether to
use CForms or just raw XHTML/HTML (4 or 5) forms.

If you like to have HTML5 goodies in browsers that support it, just use
e.g. Cocoon Actions in Sitemap OR Advanced Sitemap Matchers OR in
REST-Controller by inspecting HTTP Headers return different Page that
generate a different Content (with XSLT) for IE8.

Greetings,
-Greg

2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen m...@digikartta.net

Also HTML5 support for IE seems to be weak, even for IE9. There are still
lot of people using IE8 or even older browser + lot of people in some sort
of governmental offices using their own versions..
We can't sell apps without IE-support, absolutely no way.

http://people.mozilla.com/~**prouget/ie9/http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/

- mika -

18.2.2013 14:45, Robby Pelssers kirjoitti:

The only thing I wonder about is...

Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5 serialization for all I know.
So does someone using Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon
and how did you accomplish this.

Cheers,
Robby

-Original Message-
From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:m...@digikartta.net]
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
To: users@cocoon.apache.org
Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket

Ok,
thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.

- mika -

18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

Yeah,
I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002
or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..

This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it
actually implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use
Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It
actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to
be under development taking contemporary challenges into account.

under development with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year back [1]

But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?

It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to put on this
task.
Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in you in the
XML side if the job.

I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how
to start.

The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper
development tools to use. I ended up writing files with Notepad++.
And I never realized how to do debugging..

[1]
http://sourceforge.net/**projects/betterform/files/http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/

18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

How about some XForms implementation like this
http://www.betterform.de?
Sounds promising..

I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...

Regards.

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Re: sitemap parameter in C3 (was Re: A generator with sitemap parameter in C3)


On 18/02/2013 14:50, Thorsten Scherler wrote:

On 02/11/2013 01:55 PM, gelo1234 wrote:

...
So the setup(...) has access to sitemap parameters :) Why not
setConfiguration(..) ?

Does call:
this.setup((MapString, Object) configuration)
strips off?/adds? some unwanted/additional data for sitemap-servlet
framework ?

As i recall setConfiguration is for Java only (without
sitemap-servlet) Cocoon use and setup is for standard sitemap-servlet
? Is that correct ?


No actually setConfiguration is for passing parameters from the sitemap
to the component e.g. http://svn.apache.org/r1447255

The setup() will be called when the pipeline setup is called, I think we
should drop one since it is highly confusing.


+1 - I get often confused as well... :S

Regards.

--
Francesco Chicchiriccò

ASF Member, Apache Syncope PMC chair, Apache Cocoon PMC Member
http://people.apache.org/~ilgrosso/


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Re: sitemap parameter in C3 (was Re: A generator with sitemap parameter in C3)

So value from any parameter name (not only source is available from
setConfiguration(...) configuration object :)

Thanks for clarifying this!

Greetings,
-Greg


2013/2/18 Thorsten Scherler scher...@gmail.com

 On 02/11/2013 01:55 PM, gelo1234 wrote:
  ...
  So the setup(...) has access to sitemap parameters :) Why not
  setConfiguration(..) ?
 
  Does call:
  this.setup((MapString, Object) configuration)
  strips off?/adds? some unwanted/additional data for sitemap-servlet
  framework ?
 
  As i recall setConfiguration is for Java only (without
  sitemap-servlet) Cocoon use and setup is for standard sitemap-servlet
  ? Is that correct ?
 

 No actually setConfiguration is for passing parameters from the sitemap
 to the component e.g. http://svn.apache.org/r1447255

 The setup() will be called when the pipeline setup is called, I think we
 should drop one since it is highly confusing.

 salu2

 --
 Thorsten Scherler scherler.at.gmail.com
 codeBusters S.L. - web based systems
 consulting, training and solutions

 http://www.codebusters.es/


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Re: from Cforms to Wicket


Yep,
but as I started this chain, I stated that my problem is to convert my 
own defined dynamic XML into HTML4 (or HTML5) forms. I was looking 
something to replace Cforms (not just plain XSLT). I am also considering 
to move to C3 because as I stated earlier, developing without tools is 
hard. If I could take e.g. NetBeans and continue with that, I would be 
better off in the long run.


I was considering Apache Wickets because some integration has been done 
with C3, but right now it doesn't seem to be a real option.


HTML5 is still hype from my point of view.


- mika -


18.2.2013 15:50, gelo1234 kirjoitti:
HTML5 in its basics is a superset of HTML4. If you don't use 
HTML5-specific tags/spec you go well with old good HTML4.


The original issue was NOT whether to use HTML5 or old HTML, but 
whether to use CForms or just raw XHTML/HTML (4 or 5) forms.


If you like to have HTML5 goodies in browsers that support it, just 
use e.g. Cocoon Actions in Sitemap OR Advanced Sitemap Matchers OR in 
REST-Controller by inspecting HTTP Headers return different Page that 
generate a different Content (with XSLT) for IE8.


Greetings,
-Greg


2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen m...@digikartta.net 
mailto:m...@digikartta.net


Also HTML5 support for IE seems to be weak, even for IE9. There
are still lot of people using IE8 or even older browser + lot of
people in some sort of governmental offices using their own versions..
We can't sell apps without IE-support, absolutely no way.

http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/
http://people.mozilla.com/%7Eprouget/ie9/

- mika -


18.2.2013 14:45, Robby Pelssers kirjoitti:

The only thing I wonder about is...

Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5 serialization for all
I know.  So does someone using Cocoon already generate HTML5
content with Cocoon and how did you accomplish this.

Cheers,
Robby

-Original Message-
From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:m...@digikartta.net
mailto:m...@digikartta.net]
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
To: users@cocoon.apache.org mailto:users@cocoon.apache.org
Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket

Ok,
thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.

- mika -


18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

Yeah,
I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are
dated back to 2002
or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious
future behind..

This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes
because it
actually implements server-side approache of Xforms.
So I could use
Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I
understood right. It
actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference
that it seems to
be under development taking contemporary challenges
into account.

under development with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year
back [1]

But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?

It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to
put on this
task.
Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in
you in the
XML side if the job.

I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could
figure out how
to start.

The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having
proper
development tools to use. I ended up writing files
with Notepad++.
And I never realized how to do debugging..

[1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/betterform/files/

18.2.2013 10:48, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

On 17/02/2013 21:57, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

How about some XForms implementation like this
http://www.betterform.de?
Sounds promising..

I personally wouldn't bet much on XForms...

Regards.


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org
mailto:users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
mailto:users-h...@cocoon.apache.org




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Re: from Cforms to Wicket

IMHO if you are dealing with XML data, there are only two valid choices:
XSLT or XQuery.

Both can be used with Cocoon. XSLT is standard Cocoon supported (by
XSLTTransformer),
XQuery support for Cocoon exists in XQueryGenerator from eXistDB (
http://www.exist-db.org)

Whin one to use ? :) I prefer XSLT, but you can choose the other [1]. XSLT
has the best support in Cocoon.
XSLT is much simpler in my opinion and it enables us to generate ANY
Content/Transformation with XML data.
XSLT is pretty well supported in most IDEs, be it Eclipse or NetBeans.

Im not aware of any stack/framework that could be built on top of XSLT (as
a superset?). Actually XSLT is pretty much 4GL [2]. It is declarative in
its form so simple and yet with LEGO-like Cocoon sitemaps approach best
suited for very clean/RAD apps.

I also suggest taking a diversed approach to development with Cocoon. What
I mean by diversed is that you don't necessarily have to stick
to Cocoon tools only. In its 3.0 release Cocoon is considered to be used
across different development environments, even in its simplest form
as a library for e.g. Java EE or Spring application.
Personally I prefer to use it as a mediation proxy with ESB-like features
and use the right tools/frameworks for your job.
For me it means: Java on server, Javascript/HTML on the client.

Using Java on the client side in terms of Web app (as its with Wicket) is
IMHO very bad and ugly idea.
Other indirect uses of Java thats compiled into Javascript (like GWT,
Vaadin, Errai,) is also kind of obscure and heavy-weight.
I dare to claim they will loose its share in future HTML5 development.

Just use the right (and LIGHTWEIGHT ;) tool for your job :)

Greetings,
Greg

[1] www.w3.org/2006/Talks/0525-www2006-Kay.pdf
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-generation_programming_language



2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen m...@digikartta.net

  Yep,
 but as I started this chain, I stated that my problem is to convert my
 own defined dynamic XML into HTML4 (or HTML5) forms. I was looking
 something to replace Cforms (not just plain XSLT). I am also considering to
 move to C3 because as I stated earlier, developing without tools is hard.
 If I could take e.g. NetBeans and continue with that, I would be better off
 in the long run.

 I was considering Apache Wickets because some integration has been done
 with C3, but right now it doesn't seem to be a real option.

 HTML5 is still hype from my point of view.


 - mika -


 18.2.2013 15:50, gelo1234 kirjoitti:

  HTML5 in its basics is a superset of HTML4. If you don't use
 HTML5-specific tags/spec you go well with old good HTML4.

  The original issue was NOT whether to use HTML5 or old HTML, but whether
 to use CForms or just raw XHTML/HTML (4 or 5) forms.

  If you like to have HTML5 goodies in browsers that support it, just use
 e.g. Cocoon Actions in Sitemap OR Advanced Sitemap Matchers OR in
 REST-Controller by inspecting HTTP Headers return different Page that
 generate a different Content (with XSLT) for IE8.

  Greetings,
  -Greg


 2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen m...@digikartta.net

 Also HTML5 support for IE seems to be weak, even for IE9. There are still
 lot of people using IE8 or even older browser + lot of people in some sort
 of governmental offices using their own versions..
 We can't sell apps without IE-support, absolutely no way.

 http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/

 - mika -


 18.2.2013 14:45, Robby Pelssers kirjoitti:

  The only thing I wonder about is...

 Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5 serialization for all I know.
  So does someone using Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon
 and how did you accomplish this.

 Cheers,
 Robby

 -Original Message-
 From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:m...@digikartta.net]
 Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
 To: users@cocoon.apache.org
 Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket

 Ok,
 thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.

 - mika -


 18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

 On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

 Yeah,
 I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002
 or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..

 This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it
 actually implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use
 Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It
 actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to
 be under development taking contemporary challenges into account.

 under development with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year back [1]

  But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?

 It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to put on this
 task.
 Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in you in the
 XML side if the job.

  I would like to get familiar with C3 if I only could figure out how
 to start.

 The biggest problem with C2.11, IMHO, was not having proper
 development tools to

Re: from Cforms to Wicket

2013-02-18 Thread Jos Snellings

Nice overview!


On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:23 PM, gelo1234 gelo1...@gmail.com wrote:

 IMHO if you are dealing with XML data, there are only two valid choices:
 XSLT or XQuery.

 Both can be used with Cocoon. XSLT is standard Cocoon supported (by
 XSLTTransformer),
 XQuery support for Cocoon exists in XQueryGenerator from eXistDB (
 http://www.exist-db.org)

 Whin one to use ? :) I prefer XSLT, but you can choose the other [1]. XSLT
 has the best support in Cocoon.
 XSLT is much simpler in my opinion and it enables us to generate ANY
 Content/Transformation with XML data.
 XSLT is pretty well supported in most IDEs, be it Eclipse or NetBeans.

 Im not aware of any stack/framework that could be built on top of XSLT (as
 a superset?). Actually XSLT is pretty much 4GL [2]. It is declarative in
 its form so simple and yet with LEGO-like Cocoon sitemaps approach best
 suited for very clean/RAD apps.

 I also suggest taking a diversed approach to development with Cocoon. What
 I mean by diversed is that you don't necessarily have to stick
 to Cocoon tools only. In its 3.0 release Cocoon is considered to be used
 across different development environments, even in its simplest form
 as a library for e.g. Java EE or Spring application.
 Personally I prefer to use it as a mediation proxy with ESB-like features
 and use the right tools/frameworks for your job.
 For me it means: Java on server, Javascript/HTML on the client.

 Using Java on the client side in terms of Web app (as its with Wicket) is
 IMHO very bad and ugly idea.
 Other indirect uses of Java thats compiled into Javascript (like GWT,
 Vaadin, Errai,) is also kind of obscure and heavy-weight.
 I dare to claim they will loose its share in future HTML5 development.

 Just use the right (and LIGHTWEIGHT ;) tool for your job :)

 Greetings,
 Greg

 [1] www.w3.org/2006/Talks/0525-www2006-Kay.pdf
 [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-generation_programming_language



 2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen m...@digikartta.net

  Yep,
 but as I started this chain, I stated that my problem is to convert my
 own defined dynamic XML into HTML4 (or HTML5) forms. I was looking
 something to replace Cforms (not just plain XSLT). I am also considering to
 move to C3 because as I stated earlier, developing without tools is hard.
 If I could take e.g. NetBeans and continue with that, I would be better off
 in the long run.

 I was considering Apache Wickets because some integration has been done
 with C3, but right now it doesn't seem to be a real option.

 HTML5 is still hype from my point of view.


 - mika -


 18.2.2013 15:50, gelo1234 kirjoitti:

  HTML5 in its basics is a superset of HTML4. If you don't use
 HTML5-specific tags/spec you go well with old good HTML4.

  The original issue was NOT whether to use HTML5 or old HTML, but
 whether to use CForms or just raw XHTML/HTML (4 or 5) forms.

  If you like to have HTML5 goodies in browsers that support it, just use
 e.g. Cocoon Actions in Sitemap OR Advanced Sitemap Matchers OR in
 REST-Controller by inspecting HTTP Headers return different Page that
 generate a different Content (with XSLT) for IE8.

  Greetings,
  -Greg


 2013/2/18 Mika M Lehtonen m...@digikartta.net

 Also HTML5 support for IE seems to be weak, even for IE9. There are
 still lot of people using IE8 or even older browser + lot of people in some
 sort of governmental offices using their own versions..
 We can't sell apps without IE-support, absolutely no way.

 http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/

 - mika -


 18.2.2013 14:45, Robby Pelssers kirjoitti:

  The only thing I wonder about is...

 Cocoon and neither XSLT2.0 support html5 serialization for all I know.
  So does someone using Cocoon already generate HTML5 content with Cocoon
 and how did you accomplish this.

 Cheers,
 Robby

 -Original Message-
 From: Mika M Lehtonen [mailto:m...@digikartta.net]
 Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:42 PM
 To: users@cocoon.apache.org
 Subject: Re: from Cforms to Wicket

 Ok,
 thanks for your efforts. HTML5 it is, with or without C3.

 - mika -


 18.2.2013 14:25, Francesco Chicchiriccò kirjoitti:

 On 18/02/2013 13:09, Mika M Lehtonen wrote:

 Yeah,
 I know what you mean. Most of the Xforms sites are dated back to 2002
 or 2003.. Sounds like a standard having glorious future behind..

 This betterForm still sounded proper for my purposes because it
 actually implements server-side approache of Xforms. So I could use
 Xforms definition for producing HTML-forms, if I understood right. It
 actually resembles a lot of Cforms with a difference that it seems to
 be under development taking contemporary challenges into account.

 under development with latest release 4.1 dating 1 year back [1]

  But would I still need C3 (or C2.11 / C2.2)?

 It depends on you, and on how much effort do you want to put on this
 task.
 Anyway, not necessarily, even though Cocoon will help in you in the
 XML side if the job.

  I would like to get familiar with C3 if I

Re: from Cforms to Wicket