[libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
Thanks for the bug suggestions. I will try to get around to it in the near future. Roger -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Presentation-conversion-to-from-Powerpoint-layout-tp3782543p3802282.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
On Sat, 3 Mar 2012, Andreas Säger wrote: Am 02.03.2012 19:25, Dag Wieers wrote: I didn't reply to your post in this thread. I was replying to e-letter's post. Maybe you got lost and assumed I was replying to your post, I don't know. I wonder who got lost in this thread actually. This is the only answer to e-letter: There is nothing sensible in spelling Microsoft as 'm$', being condescending to users and force your opinions on others. It is not followed by any other posting. Yet, the link you carefully removed from my mail was *your* answer to my mail to e-letter's mail: http://www.mail-archive.com/users@global.libreoffice.org/msg17560.html So we are not discussing whatever mail you initially send to Roger, we are discussing the tone and content of e-letter's mail and how the LibreOffice project is representing itself to users. And e-letter is doing it again, Roger is offering to report a bug and is discouraged from the very start. Way to go ! -- -- dag wieers, d...@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- dagit linux solutions, i...@dagit.net, http://dagit.net/ [Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors] -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
On Sat, 3 Mar 2012, e-letter wrote: On 02/03/2012, Roger Sawkins ro...@sawkins.name wrote: Well, having had your little spat I see we have got back to suggestions as to what I might do about my problem. What you choose to call a spat reveals your ignorance of the historical context of gnu/linux and consequent inability to comprehend the connection with your problem. Bear in mind I am new to this game. There is a suggestion of reporting a bug. I realise there is a link for that, but what is the best way? Should There is no shame in being new: everyone starts ignorant; it is now up to you to acquire the necessary knowledge to understand the fallacy of your problem. I include a sample of a Ppt conversion (and vice versa) with examples of the problems, or just list them. The former, not via a mailing list! Your original post does not explain nor justify why LO should be used to create m$ formats. As indicated by previous reply, if consistent conversion is so important to you and similar m$ fans, have you contacted m$ and asked an equivalent question: I want to be able to edit and save odf presentations ((f)odp) in m$o and LO, but formatting is lost. Please improve m$o. By the way, how do I submit a bug report to m$ -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted Please read the part of the Posting guidelines as is appended to every post: TDF/LibreOffice Mailing List Netiquette http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette#Avoid_Advocacy It states: Avoid Advocacy TDF and LibreOffice mailing lists are for constructive discussions about TDF as a project, and LibreOffice as a personal productivity software. TDF as a community was born out of a positive attitude with regards to the future of free software and free office suites, and therefore we expect the subject and the tone of discussions to be in line with this positive attitude. TDF does not like negative attitudes in general, even when targeted to companies advocating proprietary software (e.g. about Microsoft being the root of all evil). So while I hate to have to bring up rules, in this case I want to make clear to Roger and other subscribers e-letter is not representing the LibreOffice project. -- -- dag wieers, d...@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- dagit linux solutions, i...@dagit.net, http://dagit.net/ [Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors] -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
Am 04.03.2012 21:59, Dag Wieers wrote: Yet, the link you carefully removed from my mail was *your* answer to my mail to e-letter's mail: http://www.mail-archive.com/users@global.libreoffice.org/msg17560.html So we are not discussing whatever mail you initially send to Roger, we are discussing the tone and content of e-letter's mail and how the LibreOffice project is representing itself to users. And e-letter is doing it again, Roger is offering to report a bug and is discouraged from the very start. Way to go ! I can't see anything wrong with e-letters statements. If you don't like his style ignore him. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
On Fri, 2 Mar 2012, Roger Sawkins wrote: Well, having had your little spat I see we have got back to suggestions as to what I might do about my problem. Bear in mind I am new to this game. There is a suggestion of reporting a bug. I realise there is a link for that, but what is the best way? Should I include a sample of a Ppt conversion (and vice versa) with examples of the problems, or just list them. Including simple sample files would certainly be useful. Also a description of the various steps, as well as software versions and system environment (that can affect the issue, like the fonts installed etc...) Bugs that are attractive (i.e. are well-documented and look easy to verify without the need to have more interaction) tend to get more support than vague claims or complicated descriptions that require more work by bug triage people or developers. Make sure that what you contribute will be public and cannot contain content that is copyrighted or illegal to share. Incidentally, there has been some comment about the 'different fonts on different machines'. I am using Times New Roman (plain and bold) and as far as I know that is available on any Windows machine, so presumably that is not causing the problem. Even when the fonts appear to be installed on the system, software bugs in the filters might be causing such issues. I don't expect them to, but bugs tend to be unexpected... -- -- dag wieers, d...@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- dagit linux solutions, i...@dagit.net, http://dagit.net/ [Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors] -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
Am 02.03.2012 23:17, Dag Wieers wrote: On Fri, 2 Mar 2012, Andreas Säger wrote: So what do you reply to Roger Sawkins? That he can file a bug report hoping that some day in future LibreOffice will fully support the extinct ppt format? Yup, with the help of the community we can improve LibreOffice so that in the future people are more happy with the PPT import/export filter. For this to happen we need good information and simple test-cases showing the ill-behavior. IMO that's a better response than the original: Your are wasting your time. Make a cost-benefit analysis and decide whether to use either LO or m$; do not bother trying to use both. There's no guarantee that Roger will take the time to do this, and there is not guarantee that someone will pick up the bug reports. But it is guaranteed that if we tell people they are wasting their time using LibreOffice in a certain way, no progress is made on that front. Which would be a true shame. I did not write the above quote. My answer was a completely different one, trying to help based on the OP's current setup with both office suites LibO and MSO. Installing the same software on both machines is a solid and viable solution rather than a question of partisanship. This is a massive waste of developers time. After all those years of co-evolution of Star/Open/LibreOffice with MSOffice, open source experts still struggle with very subtile details of their legacy file formats plus the massive load of problems imposed by their Office Open XML type of thing. At the same time ODF goes down the drain because many commercial and non-commercial software projects do not get any support in supporting ODF. For MSOffice users another option is still available, despite the efforts that have been taken by Oracle to remove it from the scene: http://sun-odf-plugin.soft-ware.net/download.asp -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
Am 02.03.2012 23:41, Roger Sawkins wrote: Well, having had your little spat I see we have got back to suggestions as to what I might do about my problem. Bear in mind I am new to this game. There is a suggestion of reporting a bug. I realise there is a link for that, but what is the best way? Should I include a sample of a Ppt conversion (and vice versa) with examples of the problems, or just list them. Incidentally, there has been some comment about the 'different fonts on different machines'. I am using Times New Roman (plain and bold) and as far as I know that is available on any Windows machine, so presumably that is not causing the problem. Roger -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Presentation-conversion-to-from-Powerpoint-layout-tp3782543p3794938.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. Thank you for the feedback. First register, then log-in and give a short description of your problem. Submit the report and finally attach the .ppt in question. Don't hold your breath. This type of conversion flaws is a never ending story because of the special ways how MS software interacts with their own specific file formats. This is supposed to be incompatible with anything else. That's how they run their big business. Greetings, Andreas P.S.: I forgot to mention another solution which adds full ODF compatibility to MS Office: http://sun-odf-plugin.soft-ware.net/download.asp -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
Am 02.03.2012 19:25, Dag Wieers wrote: I didn't reply to your post in this thread. I was replying to e-letter's post. Maybe you got lost and assumed I was replying to your post, I don't know. I wonder who got lost in this thread actually. This is the only answer to e-letter: There is nothing sensible in spelling Microsoft as 'm$', being condescending to users and force your opinions on others. It is not followed by any other posting. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
Hi :) The link i gave was the old one http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport it's still useful but this is the newer one https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/bug/ which is carefully dumbed down to make it easier but less flexible. You could start a bug-report with nothing more than a subject-line and a quick comment, just like a normal email. The triagers would probably be a little more specific about the reports that they would find useful for that particular bug. The guides are a bit generic and try to cover a wide range of different cases. Logs, reports and attachments can be added later. It just helps to try to get as much together as reasonably possible to start with so that the triagers don't get bogged down. I agree about the fonts. On GnuLinux i usually install a single package called something like MS Core Fonts which includes Arial and Times New Roman. As an aside I think it's also got Comic Sans, Verdana and Trebuchet and a couple of others but that is not the issue. I have to agree to an MS EULA to be allowed to install the package. All Windows machines i have known of have Times New Roman and Arial. Regards from Tom :) --- On Sat, 3/3/12, Andreas Säger ville...@t-online.de wrote: From: Andreas Säger ville...@t-online.de Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Saturday, 3 March, 2012, 11:36 Am 02.03.2012 23:41, Roger Sawkins wrote: Well, having had your little spat I see we have got back to suggestions as to what I might do about my problem. Bear in mind I am new to this game. There is a suggestion of reporting a bug. I realise there is a link for that, but what is the best way? Should I include a sample of a Ppt conversion (and vice versa) with examples of the problems, or just list them. Incidentally, there has been some comment about the 'different fonts on different machines'. I am using Times New Roman (plain and bold) and as far as I know that is available on any Windows machine, so presumably that is not causing the problem. Roger -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Presentation-conversion-to-from-Powerpoint-layout-tp3782543p3794938.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. Thank you for the feedback. First register, then log-in and give a short description of your problem. Submit the report and finally attach the .ppt in question. Don't hold your breath. This type of conversion flaws is a never ending story because of the special ways how MS software interacts with their own specific file formats. This is supposed to be incompatible with anything else. That's how they run their big business. Greetings, Andreas P.S.: I forgot to mention another solution which adds full ODF compatibility to MS Office: http://sun-odf-plugin.soft-ware.net/download.asp -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
Hi :) [1] The way i see it going is much the same as the newsletter at my work. People will probably start by using MS formats, then they may find the older MS ones work better and then find the ODF are a vast improvement. Our original newsletter was made in Word 2003 as a Doc. Sadly, with all the logos and even just a couple of photos it would crash plus occasionally error messages would appear. Buying Word 2007 and moving it to DocX stopped the error messages but it still crashed and the older machines couldn't handle it at all and it looked different on different machines. Moving to LibreOffice made it easier to move pictures around into more interesting layouts. Starting afresh with a new Odt took it to the next plateau. Now the images in the headers and footers line-up. The Table of Contents is clickable as are all the logos and photos. Plus all the usual improvements such as greater consistency throughout, bullet points that line-up and don't change size randomly, number lists that manage to keep count without skipping or duplicating numbers yada yada yada. The older machines handle it happily and it looks the same on every machine whether booted into Ubuntu or Windows despite them both using different versions of LibreOffice. [2] Can we copy that plugin to our own Extensions pae so that we don't lose track of it? Regards from Tom :) --- On Sat, 3/3/12, Andreas Säger ville...@t-online.de wrote: snip / [1] At the same time ODF goes down the drain because many commercial and non-commercial software projects do not get any support in supporting ODF. [2] For MSOffice users another option is still available, despite the efforts that have been taken by Oracle to remove it from the scene: http://sun-odf-plugin.soft-ware.net/download.asp -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
On 02/03/2012, Roger Sawkins ro...@sawkins.name wrote: Well, having had your little spat I see we have got back to suggestions as to what I might do about my problem. What you choose to call a spat reveals your ignorance of the historical context of gnu/linux and consequent inability to comprehend the connection with your problem. Bear in mind I am new to this game. There is a suggestion of reporting a bug. I realise there is a link for that, but what is the best way? Should There is no shame in being new: everyone starts ignorant; it is now up to you to acquire the necessary knowledge to understand the fallacy of your problem. I include a sample of a Ppt conversion (and vice versa) with examples of the problems, or just list them. The former, not via a mailing list! Your original post does not explain nor justify why LO should be used to create m$ formats. As indicated by previous reply, if consistent conversion is so important to you and similar m$ fans, have you contacted m$ and asked an equivalent question: I want to be able to edit and save odf presentations ((f)odp) in m$o and LO, but formatting is lost. Please improve m$o. By the way, how do I submit a bug report to m$ -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
Am 02.03.2012 01:49, Dag Wieers wrote: Why are you so defensive ? Open Source thrives on people that are interested in a certain subject, and one of those subjects could be improving the PPT import and export filters. Even if you personally are not affected by such improvements, why would you go against any such progress ? Why can users that experience a problem not report this to the benefit for those who would like to see this fixed ? Why are you concerned with what other people are willing to spend their free time (or maybe even paid time) on ? It's one thing to have a personal preference over what *other* people do, it's a completely different subject if one is being condescending to users who have different expectations or use-cases than yourself. OK, can open source make my car fly and swim if I only wish hard enough? There are limitations in software development just like there are limitations in the physical technology. MS has the big truck and refuses to carry the comparatively small ODF payload. Instead they do nothing and watch how we spend a lot of time struggling with their huge payload on a comparatively small truck. Finally, LibreOffice 5 will be an alternative OOXML suite with ODF as legacy file format to be dropped in version 6. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
Am 02.03.2012 09:41, Andreas Säger wrote: OK, can open source make my car fly and swim if I only wish hard enough? There are limitations in software development just like there are limitations in the physical technology. MS has the big truck and refuses to carry the comparatively small ODF payload. Instead they do nothing and watch how we spend a lot of time struggling with their huge payload on a comparatively small truck. Forgot something: MS is well aware of the psychological impact. To the innocent users our project looks silly in its ongoing struggle with an ever growing MS payload, whereas they do not expose any weakness simply doing nothing. Finally, LibreOffice 6 will be an alternative OOXML suite with ODF as legacy file format to be dropped in version 7. That will be the point when MS intruduces the next shit. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
On Fri, 2 Mar 2012, Andreas Säger wrote: Am 02.03.2012 01:49, Dag Wieers wrote: Why are you so defensive ? Open Source thrives on people that are interested in a certain subject, and one of those subjects could be improving the PPT import and export filters. Even if you personally are not affected by such improvements, why would you go against any such progress ? Why can users that experience a problem not report this to the benefit for those who would like to see this fixed ? Why are you concerned with what other people are willing to spend their free time (or maybe even paid time) on ? It's one thing to have a personal preference over what *other* people do, it's a completely different subject if one is being condescending to users who have different expectations or use-cases than yourself. OK, can open source make my car fly and swim if I only wish hard enough? What does flying/swimming cars have to do with improving the existing PPT import and export filter ? There are limitations in software development just like there are limitations in the physical technology. I am not denying there are limitations, but I refuse to believe we have come to the point we have reached any such limitation. MS has the big truck and refuses to carry the comparatively small ODF payload. Instead they do nothing and watch how we spend a lot of time struggling with their huge payload on a comparatively small truck. Finally, LibreOffice 5 will be an alternative OOXML suite with ODF as legacy file format to be dropped in version 6. It's a fallacy to think that the number of developers in LibreOffice is a constant, and that the only way to improve (what you deem) important is to focus. The success of Open Source is that it enables people to get involved in what interests *them*, and your reaction, both in style and body, actively demotivates people to get involved in anything other than what *you* think is important. If more people engage (and you seem to be afraid of having _new_ people become engaged in areas you are not interested in) we enlarge the development community, or at least make it easier to track known issues and potential improvements. I don't know what you are afraid of, but fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate... -- -- dag wieers, d...@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- dagit linux solutions, i...@dagit.net, http://dagit.net/ [Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors] -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
Am 02.03.2012 12:33, Dag Wieers wrote: What does flying/swimming cars have to do with improving the existing PPT import and export filter ? It's the economy! Only dreams are free. Of course everybody wants the magic soft to open each and every proprietary file format of computing history. There are limitations in software development just like there are limitations in the physical technology. I am not denying there are limitations, but I refuse to believe we have come to the point we have reached any such limitation. Again, why don't you refer to the OP who does not work with a magic future version. His questions are about today's LibreOffice and the same user has MS Office installed on another computer. He can choose between both suites with their respective native file formats but realistically he can not expect too much interoperability for presentation documents, particularly when the font sets differ on both machines. I don't know what you are afraid of, but fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate... All I wish is a little more self confidence regarding the ODF standard. We don't need a third decade where virtually everybody is occupied with MS interfaces, MS documents, MS browsers, MS APIs, MS protocols and extensions of all kinds. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
On Fri, 2 Mar 2012, Andreas Säger wrote: Am 02.03.2012 12:33, Dag Wieers wrote: What does flying/swimming cars have to do with improving the existing PPT import and export filter ? It's the economy! Only dreams are free. Of course everybody wants the magic soft to open each and every proprietary file format of computing history. Again, a user reports a problem with the PPT import/export filter, and instead of constructive feedback on how to improve the situation we get: - Microsoft trashing (or rather, m$ tra$shing) - Lectures on ODF - Blaming the workflow or the user not choosing either MS Office or LibreOffice I object to all that because it's not unreasonable to improve the situation and the user can contribute to improving the filters by reporting simple examples showing the issue. And then you start about flying and swiming cars, dreams, magic and whatnot. I don't know what you are afraid of, but fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate... All I wish is a little more self confidence regarding the ODF standard. We don't need a third decade where virtually everybody is occupied with MS interfaces, MS documents, MS browsers, MS APIs, MS protocols and extensions of all kinds. Well, you are preaching to the wrong choir, and that's not helpful. -- -- dag wieers, d...@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- dagit linux solutions, i...@dagit.net, http://dagit.net/ [Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors] -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
On Fri, 2 Mar 2012, Andreas Säger wrote: Am 02.03.2012 12:40, Dag Wieers wrote: On Fri, 2 Mar 2012, Andreas Säger wrote: Am 02.03.2012 09:41, Andreas Säger wrote: Please read the original posting and my reply. Then try to contribute something helpful and substancial. I didn't reply to your post in this thread. I was replying to e-letter's post. Maybe you got lost and assumed I was replying to your post, I don't know. http://www.mail-archive.com/users@global.libreoffice.org/msg17560.html Have a nice life ! -- -- dag wieers, d...@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- dagit linux solutions, i...@dagit.net, http://dagit.net/ [Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors] -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
Hi :) We might not need or want a third decade of MS dominance but that is exactly what we have been handed. We have to work from where we really are NOT from where we wish we were. We cannot rely on people starting to use LibreOffice and magically already all their previous documents somehow magically change to ODF. We can't even realistically expect people to immediately switch to always using ODF from the moment they start using LibreOffice. Not if they need other people to be able to read and work with their documents. We certainly can't rely on MS Office's implementation of ODF even for just reading ODF 1.2 (Extemded). People can really only start changing to ODF slowly and only after they have started using LibreOffice (or OpenOffice or the various others). It's quite arrogant to refuse to help people deal with problems with the MS formats. E-letter is honest about it, telling people not to use LibreOffice at all. That is the only option if we refuse to deal with MS formats, just stop people from using non-MS products. Oddly the entire rest of the project is completely in support of supporting MS formats as much as possible. It is only this list that even questions it. The other lists are happy to work in the real world while this list has people that have a lot of difficulty with the truth on the ground. So, again it is only this list that tries to alienate new users and tries to push people away from using LibreOffice in the real world. Regards from Tom :) --- On Fri, 2/3/12, Andreas Säger ville...@t-online.de wrote: snip / All I wish is a little more self confidence regarding the ODF standard. We don't need a third decade where virtually everybody is occupied with MS interfaces, MS documents, MS browsers, MS APIs, MS protocols and extensions of all kinds. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
So what do you reply to Roger Sawkins? That he can file a bug report hoping that some day in future LibreOffice will fully support the extinct ppt format? -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
Very well written, Tom! On 03/02/2012 01:27 PM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) We might not need or want a third decade of MS dominance but that is exactly what we have been handed. We have to work from where we really are NOT from where we wish we were. We cannot rely on people starting to use LibreOffice and magically already all their previous documents somehow magically change to ODF. We can't even realistically expect people to immediately switch to always using ODF from the moment they start using LibreOffice. Not if they need other people to be able to read and work with their documents. We certainly can't rely on MS Office's implementation of ODF even for just reading ODF 1.2 (Extemded). People can really only start changing to ODF slowly and only after they have started using LibreOffice (or OpenOffice or the various others). It's quite arrogant to refuse to help people deal with problems with the MS formats. E-letter is honest about it, telling people not to use LibreOffice at all. That is the only option if we refuse to deal with MS formats, just stop people from using non-MS products. Oddly the entire rest of the project is completely in support of supporting MS formats as much as possible. It is only this list that even questions it. The other lists are happy to work in the real world while this list has people that have a lot of difficulty with the truth on the ground. So, again it is only this list that tries to alienate new users and tries to push people away from using LibreOffice in the real world. Regards from Tom :) --- On Fri, 2/3/12, Andreas Sägerville...@t-online.de wrote: snip / All I wish is a little more self confidence regarding the ODF standard. We don't need a third decade where virtually everybody is occupied with MS interfaces, MS documents, MS browsers, MS APIs, MS protocols and extensions of all kinds. -- *~~* Don C. Myers e-PRO Certified by the National Association of Realtors Manager, Farm and Rural Property Division *Coldwell Banker University Realty *126 East Foster Avenue, State College, PA 16801 Office Phone: 814-237-6543 Fax: 814-237-6502 Home Phone: 814-422-8111 Cell Phone: 814-571-9518 Visit the Farm and Rural Property Division Web Site at _www.cbur-ruralproperty.com http://www.cbur-ruralproperty.com/ _View Don's Farm Web Site at www.myersfarm.com http://www.myersfarm.com/ *~~* -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
On Fri, 2 Mar 2012, Andreas Säger wrote: So what do you reply to Roger Sawkins? That he can file a bug report hoping that some day in future LibreOffice will fully support the extinct ppt format? Yup, with the help of the community we can improve LibreOffice so that in the future people are more happy with the PPT import/export filter. For this to happen we need good information and simple test-cases showing the ill-behavior. IMO that's a better response than the original: Your are wasting your time. Make a cost-benefit analysis and decide whether to use either LO or m$; do not bother trying to use both. There's no guarantee that Roger will take the time to do this, and there is not guarantee that someone will pick up the bug reports. But it is guaranteed that if we tell people they are wasting their time using LibreOffice in a certain way, no progress is made on that front. Which would be a true shame. -- -- dag wieers, d...@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- dagit linux solutions, i...@dagit.net, http://dagit.net/ [Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors] -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
Am 01.03.2012 15:20, Dag Wieers wrote: On Tue, 28 Feb 2012, e-letter wrote: On 28/02/2012, Roger Sawkins ro...@sawkins.name wrote: I have Powerpoint on one machine and LibreOffice on another. I want to be able to edit and save PowerPoints on either machine. However, when loading Ppt in Presentation it does not always convert font and layout properly. Occasional tabs or spaces are missing or duplicated; occasional text boxes have text outside the slide, etc. Your are wasting your time. Make a cost-benefit analysis and decide whether to use either LO or m$; do not bother trying to use both. Are we being rude today ? The case Roger describes is something we all encounter when exporting/importing PPT documents. And while we do not control how (various) Microsoft products behave when using ODF, we can undoubtedly do a better job at making sure the import from and export to PPT (and PPTX) is smoother. Really? Can we realistically do a better job when millions of users want another set of MS features each and every day? When downloading the Microsoft *viewers* for WinWord, Excel and Powerpoint, these three *viewers* cover the file formats doc(x), rtf, xls(x) and ppt(x). Their download size is close to the download size of OpenOffice.org (single language, no extensions but including additional components, 4 macro languages and read-write access to dozends of file formats). How much coding does it take if you are aiming to 100% compatibility with their proprietary file formats? What does it mean that the specification of OOXML weighs 8 times more print pages than the specification of ODF? For further reference (just scratching the surface): http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/de/elan/_docs/wp_doc-interop_en_09.pdf This White Paper in its two main parts describes typical effects which occur during the mixed usage of documents based on the standardized formats ISO/IEC 29500:2008 (OOXML) and ISO/IEC 26300:2006 (ODF). For each use case the following issues must have to be considered: Why translate a document from one standard to another? Which is the optimal document format to be used in the translation? Is it necessary to have a round-trip conversion of the document and if so, why? Which are the best tools to achieve these goals and who should use them? -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
On Thu, 1 Mar 2012, Andreas Säger wrote: Am 01.03.2012 15:20, Dag Wieers wrote: On Tue, 28 Feb 2012, e-letter wrote: On 28/02/2012, Roger Sawkins ro...@sawkins.name wrote: I have Powerpoint on one machine and LibreOffice on another. I want to be able to edit and save PowerPoints on either machine. However, when loading Ppt in Presentation it does not always convert font and layout properly. Occasional tabs or spaces are missing or duplicated; occasional text boxes have text outside the slide, etc. Your are wasting your time. Make a cost-benefit analysis and decide whether to use either LO or m$; do not bother trying to use both. Are we being rude today ? The case Roger describes is something we all encounter when exporting/importing PPT documents. And while we do not control how (various) Microsoft products behave when using ODF, we can undoubtedly do a better job at making sure the import from and export to PPT (and PPTX) is smoother. Really? Can we realistically do a better job when millions of users want another set of MS features each and every day? When downloading the Microsoft *viewers* for WinWord, Excel and Powerpoint, these three *viewers* cover the file formats doc(x), rtf, xls(x) and ppt(x). Their download size is close to the download size of OpenOffice.org (single language, no extensions but including additional components, 4 macro languages and read-write access to dozends of file formats). How much coding does it take if you are aiming to 100% compatibility with their proprietary file formats? What does it mean that the specification of OOXML weighs 8 times more print pages than the specification of ODF? Why are you so defensive ? Open Source thrives on people that are interested in a certain subject, and one of those subjects could be improving the PPT import and export filters. Even if you personally are not affected by such improvements, why would you go against any such progress ? Why can users that experience a problem not report this to the benefit for those who would like to see this fixed ? Why are you concerned with what other people are willing to spend their free time (or maybe even paid time) on ? It's one thing to have a personal preference over what *other* people do, it's a completely different subject if one is being condescending to users who have different expectations or use-cases than yourself. -- -- dag wieers, d...@wieers.com, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- dagit linux solutions, i...@dagit.net, http://dagit.net/ [Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors] -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: Presentation conversion to/from Powerpoint - layout
Am 28.02.2012 01:10, Roger Sawkins wrote: I have Powerpoint on one machine and LibreOffice on another. I want to be able to edit and save PowerPoints on either machine. Hello Roger, It is not supposed to work like this. LibreOffice is not a drop in replacement for any other software. You can import complex and proprietary foreign file formats in order to create your own ODF documents to work with. The import accuracy is fairly well with .doc and .xls, it is not so good with .ppt. Your ODF documents should be fully compatible across several applications. Of course MS will never really support ODF. They do not support any file format they do not control. If and only if you want to share an office file with a co-editor who can not install ODF capable software, then you may send him doc/xls/ppt copies of your ODF documents together with a PDF version so he/she can compare the intended layout in a PDF viewer with the actual layout in his software. First of all you should care about the fonts used in your documents. This office suite can not transfer any fonts embedded in the sent documents. If your font is not installed on the other machine, the overall look and pagination will differ for sure. Since you are writing about 2 of your own computers, I'd suggest to use the same software on both machines. Hope this helps, Andreas -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
