Re: Top-posting & list guidelines (was: alternative to skype)

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2018-05-17 at 10:32 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
> Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Wed, 2018-03-21 at 12:02 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
> > > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 22:20 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
> > > > > With the move to mailman3, the list footer cannot be set via
> > > > > the web-based admin interface.  I dug into the mailman3
> > > > > documentation and filed an infrastructure ticket to see
> > > > > about adding guidelines link back to the list footer for
> > > > > this list.
> > > > > 
> > > > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/6794
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks. I tried to bring this up recently (in the thread at:
> > > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/EP7DQ36TJB5G3KGV4FPUQ7D6TKOF24NV/
> > > > but nothing happened.
> > > 
> > > Ahh.  I happened to be traveling at that time and wasn't
> > > following the list closely.  Generally, anything that needs
> > > the attention of a list admin should get sent to the
> > > users-owner address.  Otherwise it's likely to simply fall
> > > through the cracks. :)
> > 
> > I guess, though one of the admins did take part.
> > 
> > > > I'd also like to suggest an explicit URL for the list
> > > > archive in the message footer, which did used to be there.
> > > > I know it's in the message headers, but these aren't
> > > > clickable in many MUAs.
> > > 
> > > Yep.  The discussion in the ticket I filed includes a
> > > suggestion (and example text) for adding the archive link to
> > > the footer.  So it's likely that will be added when that
> > > ticket is addressed.
> > 
> > Here's hoping.
> 
> Following up on an old item, I'm pleased to say there is now
> a customized list footer for all Fedora lists (not just this
> list).  This is thanks to the combined effort of a few folks
> on the Fedora Infrastructure team (Kevin Fenzi and Aurélien
> Bompard).  There were a few change freezes and other work
> which took precedence.  But this change was not forgotten.
> 
> One minor things we're likely to adjust is that the list
> archives link points to the URL of the message being sent
> rather than the generic archive URL.  (Both links are in the
> headers as "Archived-At:" and "List-Archives:" for anyone
> curious.)

Thanks Todd and others, much appreciated.

BTW it's "List-Archive:" not "List-Archives:", but whatever.

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/77QYCBNH4DQM3OILMMQJ7XPU4I4TTUH6/

Re: Top-posting & list guidelines (was: alternative to skype)

[Todd Zullinger]

Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Wed, 2018-03-21 at 12:02 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
>> Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 22:20 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
 With the move to mailman3, the list footer cannot be set via
 the web-based admin interface.  I dug into the mailman3
 documentation and filed an infrastructure ticket to see
 about adding guidelines link back to the list footer for
 this list.
 
 https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/6794
>>> 
>>> Thanks. I tried to bring this up recently (in the thread at:
>>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/EP7DQ36TJB5G3KGV4FPUQ7D6TKOF24NV/
>>> but nothing happened.
>> 
>> Ahh.  I happened to be traveling at that time and wasn't
>> following the list closely.  Generally, anything that needs
>> the attention of a list admin should get sent to the
>> users-owner address.  Otherwise it's likely to simply fall
>> through the cracks. :)
> 
> I guess, though one of the admins did take part.
> 
>>> I'd also like to suggest an explicit URL for the list
>>> archive in the message footer, which did used to be there.
>>> I know it's in the message headers, but these aren't
>>> clickable in many MUAs.
>> 
>> Yep.  The discussion in the ticket I filed includes a
>> suggestion (and example text) for adding the archive link to
>> the footer.  So it's likely that will be added when that
>> ticket is addressed.
> 
> Here's hoping.

Following up on an old item, I'm pleased to say there is now
a customized list footer for all Fedora lists (not just this
list).  This is thanks to the combined effort of a few folks
on the Fedora Infrastructure team (Kevin Fenzi and Aurélien
Bompard).  There were a few change freezes and other work
which took precedence.  But this change was not forgotten.

One minor things we're likely to adjust is that the list
archives link points to the URL of the message being sent
rather than the generic archive URL.  (Both links are in the
headers as "Archived-At:" and "List-Archives:" for anyone
curious.)

-- 
Todd
~~
Most economic fallacies derive - from the tendency to assume that
there is a fixed pie, that one party can gain only at the expense of
another
-- Milton Friedman



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/NGAMV2D5RBHILRHVRBKCBHV4W2LU/

Re: alternative to skype

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sun, 2018-03-25 at 21:56 -0400, fred roller wrote:
> The thread has digressed.  A thread on "posting etiquette" was started to 
> take up the subject.  Has the OP, Patrick, found a solution or are we still 
> helping?  Please, close the thread or continue on subject.  Apologies for the 
> directness.

Most of the "posting etiquette" discussion is now under a different
sub-thread heading, but certainly it should have it's own thread if
there's interest in continuing it.

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Tim]

Allegedly, on or about 25 March 2018, chicago sent:
> Don't quote the entire email.

For sure, and only what's necessary for your reply to make sense all by
itself.

>  In fact, don't quote anything at all when you reply.

I wouldn't do that, as a first choice.  Sure, if you have a mail client
that's a bastard to selectively quote, or won't let you edit the reply,
it will probably be preferable than posting a large message with a tiny
response.

But, generally speaking, make your reply understandable as a stand-
alone message.

The other option when quoting is technically hard to do, is to
paraphrase the questions you're responding to in your reply.  As you
would have done in traditional mail.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 4.15.10-200.fc26.x86_64 #1 SMP Thu Mar 15 17:14:41 UTC 2018 x86_64

Boilerplate:  All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
There is no point trying to privately email me, I only get to see
the messages posted to the mailing list.

Windows (TM) [Typhoid Mary].  They refuse to believe that there's anything
wrong with it, but everyone else knows Windows is a disease that spreads.
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[fred roller]

The thread has digressed.  A thread on "posting etiquette" was started to
take up the subject.  Has the OP, Patrick, found a solution or are we still
helping?  Please, close the thread or continue on subject.  Apologies for
the directness.

-- Fred
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: posting etiquette (was: alternative to skype)

[Samuel Sieb]

On 03/25/2018 07:17 AM, chicago wrote:

I have had some positive feedback saying this here and while it is a bit 
extreme I think it is also a good compromise.


This isn't a compromise, it's going to the opposite extreme.


Don't quote the entire email. In fact, don't quote anything at all when you 
reply. On k-9 mail there's a little x button (in the default config) that I can 
click to get rid of all the quotes text.

I think we should always do that except when you want to call attention to a 
particular snippet (I hope no more than about three lines).


It is much more helpful to include some context when replying. 
Obviously not the whole email with one line inserted somewhere, but 
enough text to understand the reply.  Maybe if you're having a 
one-on-one exchange with someone, you don't need that, but especially on 
a mailing list like this with so much traffic, I don't want to have to 
read through the previous emails to find out what you're replying to.


P.S. I block read receipt requests.
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Top-posting & list guidelines (was Re: alternative to skype)

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sun, 2018-03-25 at 14:17 +, chicago wrote:

> Don't quote the entire email. In fact, don't quote anything at all when you 
> reply. On k-9 mail there's a little x button (in the default config) that I 
> can click to get rid of all the quotes text. 

No, *do* quote the part you are commenting on. It makes no sense to
omit this. Of course it's all there in the archives but making your
readers open a browser just to get the context of what you are talking
about is poor practice.

I note that posts via HyperKitty seem to do this but don't know if
that's the way it works by default. If so it's a bug and should be
fixed.

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[chicago]

>email.  Of course my text is below the part immediately visible in the 
>little preview window, so they assumed that I hadn't written anything.

I have had some positive feedback saying this here and while it is a bit 
extreme I think it is also a good compromise. 

Don't quote the entire email. In fact, don't quote anything at all when you 
reply. On k-9 mail there's a little x button (in the default config) that I can 
click to get rid of all the quotes text. 

I think we should always do that except when you want to call attention to a 
particular snippet (I hope no more than about three lines). 

I love you all. 

Sincerely, 


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Philip Rhoades]

People,

See inline responses:


On 2018-03-25 22:08, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Sat, 2018-03-24 at 17:13 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:

On 03/21/2018 02:52 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
> I've worked in seven different organizations, they all happened to use
> Lotus Notes as their mail system, which also defaults to top posting,
> but it was a rule in every organization that mail must be top posted.
> Their view was that having to trawl through mails to find responses is a
> time waster, therefore people will not be allowed to do it, hence
> particularly with high level managers, they applied the convention that
> if you did not top post they wouldn't read your mail. If I'm honest it

I've had situations where I've replied to people at various places and
received no answer.  And when I went to ask them why, they said I just
sent them an empty email.  I asked them to show me so they click on 
the

email.  Of course my text is below the part immediately visible in the
little preview window, so they assumed that I hadn't written anything.


Some people need educating. You could also insert [See below] at the
top, for the more obtuse readers.



I use the above to make sure people don't miss one or more separate 
responses to specific points.


Regards,

Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra  NSW  2794
Australia
E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sat, 2018-03-24 at 17:13 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 03/21/2018 02:52 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
> > I've worked in seven different organizations, they all happened to use 
> > Lotus Notes as their mail system, which also defaults to top posting, 
> > but it was a rule in every organization that mail must be top posted. 
> > Their view was that having to trawl through mails to find responses is a 
> > time waster, therefore people will not be allowed to do it, hence 
> > particularly with high level managers, they applied the convention that 
> > if you did not top post they wouldn't read your mail. If I'm honest it 
> 
> I've had situations where I've replied to people at various places and 
> received no answer.  And when I went to ask them why, they said I just 
> sent them an empty email.  I asked them to show me so they click on the 
> email.  Of course my text is below the part immediately visible in the 
> little preview window, so they assumed that I hadn't written anything.

I'd also point out that the 'no top-posting' guideline is specifically
for mailing lists. I frequently top-post in personal replies using the
Gmail web client.

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sat, 2018-03-24 at 17:13 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 03/21/2018 02:52 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
> > I've worked in seven different organizations, they all happened to use 
> > Lotus Notes as their mail system, which also defaults to top posting, 
> > but it was a rule in every organization that mail must be top posted. 
> > Their view was that having to trawl through mails to find responses is a 
> > time waster, therefore people will not be allowed to do it, hence 
> > particularly with high level managers, they applied the convention that 
> > if you did not top post they wouldn't read your mail. If I'm honest it 
> 
> I've had situations where I've replied to people at various places and 
> received no answer.  And when I went to ask them why, they said I just 
> sent them an empty email.  I asked them to show me so they click on the 
> email.  Of course my text is below the part immediately visible in the 
> little preview window, so they assumed that I hadn't written anything.

Some people need educating. You could also insert [See below] at the
top, for the more obtuse readers.

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Samuel Sieb]

On 03/21/2018 02:52 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
I've worked in seven different organizations, they all happened to use 
Lotus Notes as their mail system, which also defaults to top posting, 
but it was a rule in every organization that mail must be top posted. 
Their view was that having to trawl through mails to find responses is a 
time waster, therefore people will not be allowed to do it, hence 
particularly with high level managers, they applied the convention that 
if you did not top post they wouldn't read your mail. If I'm honest it 


I've had situations where I've replied to people at various places and 
received no answer.  And when I went to ask them why, they said I just 
sent them an empty email.  I asked them to show me so they click on the 
email.  Of course my text is below the part immediately visible in the 
little preview window, so they assumed that I hadn't written anything.

___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[chicago]

>I think notes is a great system if used properly

Yeah, if just use the website and never open the app it is fine. 

Also pidgin is a great idea to talk to people who are on Skype. Ideally though 
when we say alternatives to Skype I assumed we meant we are replacing both ends 
of a conversation. 

signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Clovis Wichoski]

I use Telegram.

Em sáb, 17 de mar de 2018 17:55, Patrick Dupre <pdu...@gmx.com> escreveu:

> Hello,
>
> Is there an alternative to skype which would also allow me to exchange
> documents ?
>
> Thank.
>
> ===
>  Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: pdu...@gmx.com
>  Laboratoire de Physico-Chimie de l'Atmosphère | |
>  Université du Littoral-Côte d'Opale   | |
>  Tel.  (33)-(0)3 28 23 76 12   | | Fax: 03 28 65 82 44
>  189A, avenue Maurice Schumann | | 59140 Dunkerque, France
> ===
> ___
> users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
>
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Stephen Morris]

On 22/3/18 11:40 pm, chicago wrote:

I've worked in seven different organizations, they all happened to use
Lotus Notes as their mail system

Say no more. You've suffered enough.


I think notes is a great system if used properly. The organization I 
currently work for is looking at replacing notes with outlook, and I 
think they are stupid. In my view outlook/exchange is microsofts attempt 
at replicating notes and it is a dismal failure.


regards,

Steve

___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Robbi Nespu]

You discussion is out of topic. Do thread owner found the alternative? If
yes, stop bump the thread to much with unrelated to main topic.

Furthermore, i tried latest purple pidgin and send / received documents
working perfectly with you skype account.

It also lightweight compare to official skype application.

Give a try!
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[chicago]

>I've worked in seven different organizations, they all happened to use 
>Lotus Notes as their mail system

Say no more. You've suffered enough. 

signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Top-posting & list guidelines (was: alternative to skype)

[Wolfgang Pfeiffer]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 19:49:26 -0700
Dave Stevens  wrote:

> yes, in my client I highlight a point as I've done here then hit reply
> and get no cruft and just the point I want to discuss. Claws mail. (if
> it's good enough for Richard Stallman it's good enough for me!)

Wow - using Claws Mail since quite some time, but didn't even know
about the feature ... Thanks!
-- 
Wolfgang Pfeiffer
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2018-03-22 at 08:52 +1100, Stephen Morris wrote:
> and humans being human will sometimes forget 
> when the convention is not what they are used to, so all I'm saying is 
> that people may have to be continually reminded.

No "maybe" about it. I occasionally insert a reminder, but only if I'm
replying anyway. I suspect most people don't because they prefer not to
be seen as nagging, but somebody has to do it :-)

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Stephen Morris]

On 21/3/18 10:09 am, Rick Stevens wrote:

On 03/20/2018 02:10 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:

On 21/3/18 12:05 am, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 08:29 -0400, fred roller wrote:

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:00 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan
 wrote:

On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 00:09 +, Néstor wrote:

You can actually use Google voice in another country as long as you
have access to the internet.

Sometimes if I am I another and I need to call someone in that
country I will go to a place that has WiFi and make the call like
if i was in the US
and i call that country's phone number.


[Please don't top-post]

When I said "only available to users in the US" I meant "only available
to US users", i.e. users with an address and phone number in the US.
Where you are physically when you make the call is irrelevant.

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org


Apologies for the top posts, gmail insist on top posting reponses and
I forget to adjust.

[Maybe also adjust to use plaintext ...]

Just my 2 cents worth on this, relative to the top posting, different
countries have different requirements, so you may have to keep reminding
people that this list has a different convention. I have Thunderbird
configured to top post, and understanding the conventions of this list I
work around that, but here in Australia it is considered rude to not Top
Post, and if you don't Top Post, your mail is immediate grounds for it
to be moved to the "round filing cabinet" without being read.

I've never heard that _countries_ have rules regarding top- and bottom-
posts. It's typically more what the individual SIG (special interest
group, mail-list, etc.) prefer. On the Fedora lists, we prefer bottom-
posts because they maintain the temporal flow of the thread's content
(comments are placed AFTER the thing they're commenting on). Other lists
may prefer top-posts (although I can't understand why since I don't
want to have to scroll through a comment to see what they're commenting
ABOUT). But, you're in Oz and things are reversed there (hell, even the
toilet water goes backwards). (I'm trying to be funny here! Don't take
offense...I lived in Sydney for a year and loved it.)


No offense taken, I'm used to those sorts of jokes.

I've worked in seven different organizations, they all happened to use 
Lotus Notes as their mail system, which also defaults to top posting, 
but it was a rule in every organization that mail must be top posted. 
Their view was that having to trawl through mails to find responses is a 
time waster, therefore people will not be allowed to do it, hence 
particularly with high level managers, they applied the convention that 
if you did not top post they wouldn't read your mail. If I'm honest it 
is time consuming scrolling through mails to find responses. Having said 
this though there are occasions where responses have been embedded in 
mail, but in those situations there is a top post to say that is what 
they have done and their responses are also in a different color. Notes 
also has the convention that in replied to mail the mail address header 
information is embedded at the top of the contents, which then makes the 
original text a group that can be collapsed down to a single header line 
that identifies who the particular portion of the mail was from, and the 
collapsing of the email trail is done automatically so if responses are 
embedded in the mail trying to track them becomes a nightmare.


I'm also on the Ubuntu mailing list, and from what I'm seeing on that 
list, they don't seem to care, so users moving from Ubuntu to Fedora, 
will potentially continue to use their normal conventions for mails, 
forgetting that this list has a different convention to their "norm" 
even if they knew in the first place.


Having said all this, I don't have an issue with this list having a 
different convention to my norm, but new users to the list may not be 
aware of the situation, and humans being human will sometimes forget 
when the convention is not what they are used to, so all I'm saying is 
that people may have to be continually reminded.


regards,

Steve




For years, bottom posts were normal (and I go back to ye olden days of
DARPAnet and moving mail around via UUCP using bang-paths). Then M$
stuck their noses into it and saddled the world with Outlook, which
defaulted to top posting. Internet noobs used it and that's what they
seem comfortable with.


FWIW you can give https://www.asterisk.org/ a try and DIY a phone
server.  The VOIP would give you the mobile option because I used it
an age ago (headset and my laptop were my "phone" with any internet
connection).  Any calls to numbers would bill from server to client
for purpose of long distance; i.e. you home base in England (server)
go to France and call a client in Japan.  Your calls to England 

Re: Top-posting & list guidelines (was: alternative to skype)

[chicago]

> yes, in my client I highlight a point as I've done here then hit
>reply
>> and get no cruft and just the point I want to discuss. Claws mail.
>(if
>> it's good enough for Richard Stallman it's good enough for me!)
>
>Same in Evolution. In fact even the Gmail web client used to do this
>when properly configured

I was kind of afraid everyone would yell at me but I'm very pleasantly 
surprised. Thank you! 

signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Top-posting & list guidelines (was: alternative to skype)

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2018-03-21 at 12:02 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
> Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 22:20 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
> > > With the move to mailman3, the list footer cannot be set via
> > > the web-based admin interface.  I dug into the mailman3
> > > documentation and filed an infrastructure ticket to see
> > > about adding guidelines link back to the list footer for
> > > this list.
> > > 
> > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/6794
> > 
> > Thanks. I tried to bring this up recently (in the thread at:
> > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/EP7DQ36TJB5G3KGV4FPUQ7D6TKOF24NV/
> > but nothing happened.
> 
> Ahh.  I happened to be traveling at that time and wasn't
> following the list closely.  Generally, anything that needs
> the attention of a list admin should get sent to the
> users-owner address.  Otherwise it's likely to simply fall
> through the cracks. :)

I guess, though one of the admins did take part.

> > I'd also like to suggest an explicit URL for the list
> > archive in the message footer, which did used to be there.
> > I know it's in the message headers, but these aren't
> > clickable in many MUAs.
> 
> Yep.  The discussion in the ticket I filed includes a
> suggestion (and example text) for adding the archive link to
> the footer.  So it's likely that will be added when that
> ticket is addressed.

Here's hoping.

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Top-posting & list guidelines (was: alternative to skype)

[Todd Zullinger]

Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 22:20 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
>> With the move to mailman3, the list footer cannot be set via
>> the web-based admin interface.  I dug into the mailman3
>> documentation and filed an infrastructure ticket to see
>> about adding guidelines link back to the list footer for
>> this list.
>> 
>> https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/6794
> 
> Thanks. I tried to bring this up recently (in the thread at:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/EP7DQ36TJB5G3KGV4FPUQ7D6TKOF24NV/
> but nothing happened.

Ahh.  I happened to be traveling at that time and wasn't
following the list closely.  Generally, anything that needs
the attention of a list admin should get sent to the
users-owner address.  Otherwise it's likely to simply fall
through the cracks. :)

> I'd also like to suggest an explicit URL for the list
> archive in the message footer, which did used to be there.
> I know it's in the message headers, but these aren't
> clickable in many MUAs.

Yep.  The discussion in the ticket I filed includes a
suggestion (and example text) for adding the archive link to
the footer.  So it's likely that will be added when that
ticket is addressed.

-- 
Todd
~~
A fool's brain digests philosophy into folly, science into
superstition, and art into pedantry.  Hence University education.
-- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Top-posting & list guidelines (was: alternative to skype)

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 22:20 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
> Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > Top-posting is specifically discouraged by the Guidelines
> > of this and other lists hosted by Fedora, not to mention
> > many other mailing lists of a technical nature. Please
> > read:
> > 
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines#Proper_posting_style
> 
> This reminded me that we used to include a link to the
> guidelines in the list footer (and in the list welcome
> message).  Not everyone reads it no matter how often we may
> include it, but it surely helps raise awareness a little.
> 
> With the move to mailman3, the list footer cannot be set via
> the web-based admin interface.  I dug into the mailman3
> documentation and filed an infrastructure ticket to see
> about adding guidelines link back to the list footer for
> this list.
> 
> https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/6794

Thanks. I tried to bring this up recently (in the thread at:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/EP7DQ36TJB5G3KGV4FPUQ7D6TKOF24NV/
but nothing happened. You've gone the extra mile and looked into how it
can be done. I'd also like to suggest an explicit URL for the list
archive in the message footer, which did used to be there. I know it's
in the message headers, but these aren't clickable in many MUAs.

(I also think the new archive system is significantly less useful than
the old one, but that's a different topic).

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Top-posting & list guidelines (was: alternative to skype)

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 19:49 -0700, Dave Stevens wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 22:29:29 -0400
> Todd Zullinger  wrote:
> 
> > > If there's something you're replying to in particular,
> > > maybe quote that one line but there's no need to quote the
> > > entire thread so far in every email in the thread.   
> 
> yes, in my client I highlight a point as I've done here then hit reply
> and get no cruft and just the point I want to discuss. Claws mail. (if
> it's good enough for Richard Stallman it's good enough for me!)

Same in Evolution. In fact even the Gmail web client used to do this
when properly configured, but Google seem to have broken it now.

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Top-posting & list guidelines (was: alternative to skype)

[Dave Stevens]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 22:29:29 -0400
Todd Zullinger  wrote:

> > If there's something you're replying to in particular,
> > maybe quote that one line but there's no need to quote the
> > entire thread so far in every email in the thread.   

yes, in my client I highlight a point as I've done here then hit reply
and get no cruft and just the point I want to discuss. Claws mail. (if
it's good enough for Richard Stallman it's good enough for me!)

d
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Top-posting & list guidelines (was: alternative to skype)

[Todd Zullinger]

chicago wrote:
> I think both top posting and bottom posting are asinine.
> The correct answer is to delete the quoted text and reply. 
>
> If there's something you're replying to in particular,
> maybe quote that one line but there's no need to quote the
> entire thread so far in every email in the thread. 

The list guidelines ask folks to use "bottom, interleaved
posting." and to "not over-quote by the hierarchy level in
the correspondence."

It's a shame that many popular email clients make this
require more effort than necessary and that many users come
from work/school environments which encourage top-posting,
over-quoting, HTML mail, etc.

Overall, I'd say the list members here do a reasonable job
and many of the list regulars give helpful, friendly nudges
to new members.

-- 
Todd
~~
I don't mean to sound cold, or cruel, or vicious,
but I am, so that's the way it comes out.
-- Bill Hicks



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Top-posting & list guidelines (was: alternative to skype)

[Todd Zullinger]

Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> Top-posting is specifically discouraged by the Guidelines
> of this and other lists hosted by Fedora, not to mention
> many other mailing lists of a technical nature. Please
> read:
> 
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines#Proper_posting_style

This reminded me that we used to include a link to the
guidelines in the list footer (and in the list welcome
message).  Not everyone reads it no matter how often we may
include it, but it surely helps raise awareness a little.

With the move to mailman3, the list footer cannot be set via
the web-based admin interface.  I dug into the mailman3
documentation and filed an infrastructure ticket to see
about adding guidelines link back to the list footer for
this list.

https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/6794

-- 
Todd
~~
If barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?
-- Jack Handy



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[chicago]

I think both top posting and bottom posting are asinine. The correct answer is 
to delete the quoted text and reply. 

If there's something you're replying to in particular, maybe quote that one 
line but there's no need to quote the entire thread so far in every email in 
the thread. 

Just my not so humble opinion. 

I love you all xx. 

Sincerely, 


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2018-03-21 at 08:10 +1100, Stephen Morris wrote:
> Just my 2 cents worth on this, relative to the top posting, different 
> countries have different requirements, so you may have to keep reminding 
> people that this list has a different convention. I have Thunderbird 
> configured to top post, and understanding the conventions of this list I 
> work around that, but here in Australia it is considered rude to not Top 
> Post, and if you don't Top Post, your mail is immediate grounds for it 
> to be moved to the "round filing cabinet" without being read.

Top-posting is specifically discouraged by the Guidelines of this and
other lists hosted by Fedora, not to mention many other mailing lists
of a technical nature. Please read:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines#Proper_posting_style

Users of corporate email systems are accustomed to top-posting, and
this is reinforced by the default configuration of many mail clients,
which seem to blindly follow the method dictated by Outlook. However
the corporate world has little experience of discussion lists such as
this one and uses mailing lists mainly for distribution. There is also
a culture of copying everything over and over again, which top-posting
encourages, with little or any effort made to edit redundant material
when quoting. When a list lends itself to multiple threaded
discussions, often many layers deep, and when the entire history of
posts is maintained in an online archive, this is simply inane.

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Rick Stevens]

On 03/20/2018 02:10 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
> On 21/3/18 12:05 am, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
>> On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 08:29 -0400, fred roller wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:00 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan
>>>  wrote:
 On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 00:09 +, Néstor wrote:
> You can actually use Google voice in another country as long as you
> have access to the internet.
>
> Sometimes if I am I another and I need to call someone in that
> country I will go to a place that has WiFi and make the call like
> if i was in the US
> and i call that country's phone number.
>
 [Please don't top-post]

 When I said "only available to users in the US" I meant "only available
 to US users", i.e. users with an address and phone number in the US.
 Where you are physically when you make the call is irrelevant.

 poc
 ___
 users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
 To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

>>> Apologies for the top posts, gmail insist on top posting reponses and
>>> I forget to adjust.
>> [Maybe also adjust to use plaintext ...]
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth on this, relative to the top posting, different
> countries have different requirements, so you may have to keep reminding
> people that this list has a different convention. I have Thunderbird
> configured to top post, and understanding the conventions of this list I
> work around that, but here in Australia it is considered rude to not Top
> Post, and if you don't Top Post, your mail is immediate grounds for it
> to be moved to the "round filing cabinet" without being read.

I've never heard that _countries_ have rules regarding top- and bottom-
posts. It's typically more what the individual SIG (special interest
group, mail-list, etc.) prefer. On the Fedora lists, we prefer bottom-
posts because they maintain the temporal flow of the thread's content
(comments are placed AFTER the thing they're commenting on). Other lists
may prefer top-posts (although I can't understand why since I don't
want to have to scroll through a comment to see what they're commenting
ABOUT). But, you're in Oz and things are reversed there (hell, even the
toilet water goes backwards). (I'm trying to be funny here! Don't take
offense...I lived in Sydney for a year and loved it.)

For years, bottom posts were normal (and I go back to ye olden days of
DARPAnet and moving mail around via UUCP using bang-paths). Then M$
stuck their noses into it and saddled the world with Outlook, which
defaulted to top posting. Internet noobs used it and that's what they
seem comfortable with.

>>> FWIW you can give https://www.asterisk.org/ a try and DIY a phone
>>> server.  The VOIP would give you the mobile option because I used it
>>> an age ago (headset and my laptop were my "phone" with any internet
>>> connection).  Any calls to numbers would bill from server to client
>>> for purpose of long distance; i.e. you home base in England (server)
>>> go to France and call a client in Japan.  Your calls to England home
>>> office, gratis.  France to Japan would be billed from England ->
>>> Japan.  There are ways to mitigate expense if not reduce to zero
>>> altogether if memory serves.  It has been ages since I used this last
>>> but the project is still going strong and OS.  File transfers can be
>>> handled through any number of online fileshare option, rather
>>> previlent these days.
>> Yes, I'm aware of Asterisk and considered it back when I was interested
>> in Google Voice. That's no longer the case and I virtually never make
>> actual phone calls rather than calling over WhatsApp or similar,SIP and 
>> H.323  plus
>> Skype is already good enough for the few I do make - mainly to my US
>> bank. If only these apps supported receiving SMS messages ...

Asterisk is really a full-boat VOIP PBX system, not a replacement for
Skype or Slack or GotoMeeting or anything like that. Really anything
that implements SIP and H.323 can be replacements (ekiga, softphone,
etc.) for Skype and its ilk, but you need coordination between the
clients and there are very, VERY few free ones out there. The hardware
for tying into a POTS (plain-old telephone system) is expensive, plus
you have to pay for the lines themselves. So far, I haven't found anyone
philanthropic enough or with deep-enough pockets to fund something
like that for free.
--
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigitalri...@alldigital.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2ICQ: 22643734Yahoo: origrps2 -
--
-Brain:  The organ with which we think that we think.-
--
___
users mailing list -- 

Re: alternative to skype

[Stephen Morris]

On 21/3/18 12:05 am, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 08:29 -0400, fred roller wrote:


On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:00 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan  
wrote:

On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 00:09 +, Néstor wrote:

You can actually use Google voice in another country as long as you have access 
to the internet.

Sometimes if I am I another and I need to call someone in that country I will 
go to a place that has WiFi and make the call like if i was in the US
and i call that country's phone number.


[Please don't top-post]

When I said "only available to users in the US" I meant "only available
to US users", i.e. users with an address and phone number in the US.
Where you are physically when you make the call is irrelevant.

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org


Apologies for the top posts, gmail insist on top posting reponses and I forget 
to adjust.

[Maybe also adjust to use plaintext ...]


Just my 2 cents worth on this, relative to the top posting, different 
countries have different requirements, so you may have to keep reminding 
people that this list has a different convention. I have Thunderbird 
configured to top post, and understanding the conventions of this list I 
work around that, but here in Australia it is considered rude to not Top 
Post, and if you don't Top Post, your mail is immediate grounds for it 
to be moved to the "round filing cabinet" without being read.


regards,

Steve





FWIW you can give https://www.asterisk.org/ a try and DIY a phone server.  The VOIP would 
give you the mobile option because I used it an age ago (headset and my laptop were my 
"phone" with any internet connection).  Any calls to numbers would bill from 
server to client for purpose of long distance; i.e. you home base in England (server) go to 
France and call a client in Japan.  Your calls to England home office, gratis.  France to 
Japan would be billed from England -> Japan.  There are ways to mitigate expense if not 
reduce to zero altogether if memory serves.  It has been ages since I used this last but the 
project is still going strong and OS.  File transfers can be handled through any number of 
online fileshare option, rather previlent these days.

Yes, I'm aware of Asterisk and considered it back when I was interested
in Google Voice. That's no longer the case and I virtually never make
actual phone calls rather than calling over WhatsApp or similar, plus
Skype is already good enough for the few I do make - mainly to my US
bank. If only these apps supported receiving SMS messages ...

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 08:29 -0400, fred roller wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:00 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan  
> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 00:09 +, Néstor wrote:
> > > You can actually use Google voice in another country as long as you have 
> > > access to the internet.
> > >
> > > Sometimes if I am I another and I need to call someone in that country I 
> > > will go to a place that has WiFi and make the call like if i was in the US
> > > and i call that country's phone number.
> > >
> > 
> > [Please don't top-post]
> > 
> > When I said "only available to users in the US" I meant "only available
> > to US users", i.e. users with an address and phone number in the US.
> > Where you are physically when you make the call is irrelevant.
> > 
> > poc
> > ___
> > users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > 
> 
> Apologies for the top posts, gmail insist on top posting reponses and I 
> forget to adjust.

[Maybe also adjust to use plaintext ...]

> FWIW you can give https://www.asterisk.org/ a try and DIY a phone server.  
> The VOIP would give you the mobile option because I used it an age ago 
> (headset and my laptop were my "phone" with any internet connection).  Any 
> calls to numbers would bill from server to client for purpose of long 
> distance; i.e. you home base in England (server) go to France and call a 
> client in Japan.  Your calls to England home office, gratis.  France to Japan 
> would be billed from England -> Japan.  There are ways to mitigate expense if 
> not reduce to zero altogether if memory serves.  It has been ages since I 
> used this last but the project is still going strong and OS.  File transfers 
> can be handled through any number of online fileshare option, rather 
> previlent these days.

Yes, I'm aware of Asterisk and considered it back when I was interested
in Google Voice. That's no longer the case and I virtually never make
actual phone calls rather than calling over WhatsApp or similar, plus
Skype is already good enough for the few I do make - mainly to my US
bank. If only these apps supported receiving SMS messages ...

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[fred roller]

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:00 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan 
wrote:

> On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 00:09 +, Néstor wrote:
> > You can actually use Google voice in another country as long as you have
> access to the internet.
> >
> > Sometimes if I am I another and I need to call someone in that country I
> will go to a place that has WiFi and make the call like if i was in the US
> > and i call that country's phone number.
> >
>
> [Please don't top-post]
>
> When I said "only available to users in the US" I meant "only available
> to US users", i.e. users with an address and phone number in the US.
> Where you are physically when you make the call is irrelevant.
>
> poc
> ___
> users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
>

Apologies for the top posts, gmail insist on top posting reponses and I
forget to adjust.

FWIW you can give https://www.asterisk.org/ a try and DIY a phone server.
The VOIP would give you the mobile option because I used it an age ago
(headset and my laptop were my "phone" with any internet connection).  Any
calls to numbers would bill from server to client for purpose of long
distance; i.e. you home base in England (server) go to France and call a
client in Japan.  Your calls to England home office, gratis.  France to
Japan would be billed from England -> Japan.  There are ways to mitigate
expense if not reduce to zero altogether if memory serves.  It has been
ages since I used this last but the project is still going strong and OS.
File transfers can be handled through any number of online fileshare
option, rather previlent these days.

-- Fred
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 00:09 +, Néstor wrote:
> You can actually use Google voice in another country as long as you have 
> access to the internet.
>  
> Sometimes if I am I another and I need to call someone in that country I will 
> go to a place that has WiFi and make the call like if i was in the US
> and i call that country's phone number.
>  

[Please don't top-post]

When I said "only available to users in the US" I meant "only available
to US users", i.e. users with an address and phone number in the US.
Where you are physically when you make the call is irrelevant.

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[chicago]

I think you need to be here in the US to register a new number though? Also if 
you don't use it for so long it goes away. 

signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Néstor]

You can actually use Google voice in another country as long as you have
access to the internet.

Sometimes if I am I another and I need to call someone in that country I
will go to a place that has WiFi and make the call like if i was in the US
and i call that country's phone number.

It worked for me in Japan, Panama, Philippines, Mexico, Peru

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 3:49 PM Patrick O'Callaghan 
wrote:

> On Sun, 2018-03-18 at 11:03 -0700, Mike Wright wrote:
> > On 03/18/2018 09:32 AM, fred roller wrote:
> > >  > Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling?
> > >
> > > AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so no phone.
> > > In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if you can get it will do
> > > what I suspect you want; your account to a non-account call.
> >
> > I've been using Google Voice for years.  From the US all US and Canada
> > calls are free.  Other countries start at 1¢ (e.g. MX, BR, AU, FR) per
> > minute.  Even DPRK is only 55¢.
>
> That's fine, but as I said earlier, only available to users in the US.
> Google Voice had been around for quite some time now and has never
> expanded its service beyond the US (not just calling but unified phone
> numbers etc.), all of which I would have been interested in at one
> time.
>
> poc
> ___
> users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
>
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sun, 2018-03-18 at 11:03 -0700, Mike Wright wrote:
> On 03/18/2018 09:32 AM, fred roller wrote:
> >  > Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling?
> > 
> > AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so no phone.  
> > In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if you can get it will do 
> > what I suspect you want; your account to a non-account call.
> 
> I've been using Google Voice for years.  From the US all US and Canada 
> calls are free.  Other countries start at 1¢ (e.g. MX, BR, AU, FR) per 
> minute.  Even DPRK is only 55¢.

That's fine, but as I said earlier, only available to users in the US.
Google Voice had been around for quite some time now and has never
expanded its service beyond the US (not just calling but unified phone
numbers etc.), all of which I would have been interested in at one
time.

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Robbi Nespu]

I still use Skype since my contact come from various type of OS on
they machine. So I keep using skype protocol but using pidgin
(skype4pidgin), it very lightweight compare to official skype
software.

Check the project here : https://github.com/EionRobb/skype4pidgin
,Fedora has this package , so just install from our repository

$ sudo dnf install purple-skypeweb pidgin-skypeweb

Sending document seem have some issues, but I don't care much. I can
send via web when needed. If you still care and want self hosted, take
a look on Jitsi project.

Last not least, riot.im and tox.chat also good platform to try

-- 

Best Regards,
RN
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[JD]

On 03/18/2018 02:34 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 03/19/18 04:20, JD wrote:

On 03/18/2018 11:46 AM, fred roller wrote:

you have g-voice they do not.  similar to skype acct to acct or acct to other. I
use g-voice for a voice mailbox because of its ability to transcribe to text and
send to my phone.  I do know that you can call any phone number but usually by
charging the account w/ $$.

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 12:40 PM, JD >
wrote:



 On 03/18/2018 10:32 AM, fred roller wrote:

 > Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number
 calling?
 AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so
 no phone.  In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if
 you can get it will do what I suspect you want; your account
 to a non-account call.

 -- Fred

 I don't understand the last part: your account to a non-account call.
 What is a non-account call


well, that's just like skype.
I do not know googl'es per minute charges to non-account phone numbers,
vs. phone numbers associated with a google account.
Are the rates published online?

http://bit.ly/2FQletP   ?

Great and reasonable rate charges.
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Ed Greshko]

On 03/19/18 04:20, JD wrote:
>
> On 03/18/2018 11:46 AM, fred roller wrote:
>> you have g-voice they do not.  similar to skype acct to acct or acct to 
>> other. I
>> use g-voice for a voice mailbox because of its ability to transcribe to text 
>> and
>> send to my phone.  I do know that you can call any phone number but usually 
>> by
>> charging the account w/ $$.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 12:40 PM, JD > >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>     On 03/18/2018 10:32 AM, fred roller wrote:
>>
>>     > Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number
>>     calling?
>>     AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so
>>     no phone.  In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if
>>     you can get it will do what I suspect you want; your account
>>     to a non-account call.
>>
>>     -- Fred
>>
>>     I don't understand the last part: your account to a non-account call.
>>     What is a non-account call
>>
> well, that's just like skype.
> I do not know googl'es per minute charges to non-account phone numbers,
> vs. phone numbers associated with a google account.
> Are the rates published online?

http://bit.ly/2FQletP   ?


-- 
Conjecture is just a conclusion based on incomplete information. It isn't a 
fact.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[JD]

On 03/18/2018 11:46 AM, fred roller wrote:
you have g-voice they do not.  similar to skype acct to acct or acct 
to other. I use g-voice for a voice mailbox because of its ability to 
transcribe to text and send to my phone.  I do know that you can call 
any phone number but usually by charging the account w/ $$.


On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 12:40 PM, JD > wrote:




On 03/18/2018 10:32 AM, fred roller wrote:

> Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number
calling?
AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so
no phone.  In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if
you can get it will do what I suspect you want; your account
to a non-account call.

-- Fred

I don't understand the last part: your account to a non-account call.
What is a non-account call


well, that's just like skype.
I do not know googl'es per minute charges to non-account phone numbers,
vs. phone numbers associated with a google account.
Are the rates published online?
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Mike Wright]

On 03/18/2018 09:32 AM, fred roller wrote:

 > Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling?

AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so no phone.  
In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if you can get it will do 
what I suspect you want; your account to a non-account call.


I've been using Google Voice for years.  From the US all US and Canada 
calls are free.  Other countries start at 1¢ (e.g. MX, BR, AU, FR) per 
minute.  Even DPRK is only 55¢.


Mike Wright
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[fred roller]

you have g-voice they do not.  similar to skype acct to acct or acct to
other. I use g-voice for a voice mailbox because of its ability to
transcribe to text and send to my phone.  I do know that you can call any
phone number but usually by charging the account w/ $$.

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 12:40 PM, JD  wrote:

>
>
> On 03/18/2018 10:32 AM, fred roller wrote:
>
>> > Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling?
>> AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so no phone.
>> In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if you can get it will do
>> what I suspect you want; your account to a non-account call.
>>
>> -- Fred
>>
>> I don't understand the last part: your account to a non-account call.
> What is a non-account call
>
> ___
> users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
>
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[JD]

On 03/18/2018 10:32 AM, fred roller wrote:

> Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling?
AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so no 
phone.  In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if you can get 
it will do what I suspect you want; your account to a non-account call.


-- Fred


I don't understand the last part: your account to a non-account call.
What is a non-account call
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[fred roller]

> Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling?

AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so no phone.  In
essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if you can get it will do what I
suspect you want; your account to a non-account call.

-- Fred
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[JD]

On 03/18/2018 02:59 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Sat, 2018-03-17 at 22:48 -0400, fred roller wrote:

gmail has video connect (both might need an account but so does skype) and the 
drive would allow shared files.  Google voice is a free service which does 
video as well I believe.

Google Voice only exists in the US.

Google Hangouts is an alternative available everywhere. It also allows
multi-part video-conferencing, which I think Skype only has in the
business version (at least it used to be that way). And Google, never
happy with only one offering, also has Allo and Duo.

There's also WhatsApp (one-to-one video only AFAIK), and I think
Facebook.

All of these are closed-source of course, but so is Skype.

poc

Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling?
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sat, 2018-03-17 at 22:48 -0400, fred roller wrote:
> gmail has video connect (both might need an account but so does skype) and 
> the drive would allow shared files.  Google voice is a free service which 
> does video as well I believe.

Google Voice only exists in the US.

Google Hangouts is an alternative available everywhere. It also allows
multi-part video-conferencing, which I think Skype only has in the
business version (at least it used to be that way). And Google, never
happy with only one offering, also has Allo and Duo.

There's also WhatsApp (one-to-one video only AFAIK), and I think
Facebook.

All of these are closed-source of course, but so is Skype.

poc
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[RLM]

Try Viber It may be an alternative

Cheers


On 18/3/18 7:52 am, Patrick Dupre wrote:

Hello,

Is there an alternative to skype which would also allow me to exchange
documents ?

Thank.

===
  Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: pdu...@gmx.com
  Laboratoire de Physico-Chimie de l'Atmosphère | |
  Université du Littoral-Côte d'Opale   | |
  Tel.  (33)-(0)3 28 23 76 12   | | Fax: 03 28 65 82 44
  189A, avenue Maurice Schumann | | 59140 Dunkerque, France
===
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[fred roller]

gmail has video connect (both might need an account but so does skype) and
the drive would allow shared files.  Google voice is a free service which
does video as well I believe.

-- Fred
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Germano Massullo]

I don't know about documents exchange,  but you could give a look to
- Jitsi web
- talky.io
- zoom.us
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: alternative to skype

[Bogdan Cristea]

Hi

You might try retro share: it uses peer 2 peer instead of server based 
connection

http://retroshare.net

regards
Bogdan 


> On 17 Mar 2018, at 22:52, Patrick Dupre <pdu...@gmx.com> wrote:
> 
> Is there an alternative to skype which would also allow me to exchange
> documents ?

___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

alternative to skype

[Patrick Dupre]

Hello,

Is there an alternative to skype which would also allow me to exchange
documents ?

Thank.

===
 Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: pdu...@gmx.com
 Laboratoire de Physico-Chimie de l'Atmosphère | |
 Université du Littoral-Côte d'Opale   | |
 Tel.  (33)-(0)3 28 23 76 12   | | Fax: 03 28 65 82 44
 189A, avenue Maurice Schumann | | 59140 Dunkerque, France
===
___
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Joe Wulf]

Seconding the move in this direction.
Anything is better then a Micro$loth tainted product.



- Original Message -
 From: Richard Shaw hobbes1...@gmail.com
 To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org
 Cc: 
 Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 5:08 PM
 Subject: Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?
 
 Well, reviving this old thread since I actually got a build of JItsi
 that appears to work just in case anyone's interested. It still needs
 a lot of work to remove some 3rd party files before it could possible
 be included in Fedora though.
 
 http://hobbes1069.fedorapeople.org/jitsi/
 -- 
 users mailing list
 users@lists.fedoraproject.org
 To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
 Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Zoltan Hoppar]

Let it be the default added software. Also I suggest to check out
Chandler (www.chandlerproject.org) - maybe it improves our
communication through this. Chandler is barely written in python, so
please check it out.

Thx,

Zoltan

2011/10/24 Joe Wulf joe_w...@yahoo.com:
 Seconding the move in this direction.
 Anything is better then a Micro$loth tainted product.



 - Original Message -
 From: Richard Shaw hobbes1...@gmail.com
 To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org
 Cc:
 Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 5:08 PM
 Subject: Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

 Well, reviving this old thread since I actually got a build of JItsi
 that appears to work just in case anyone's interested. It still needs
 a lot of work to remove some 3rd party files before it could possible
 be included in Fedora though.

 http://hobbes1069.fedorapeople.org/jitsi/
 --
 users mailing list
 users@lists.fedoraproject.org
 To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
 Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

 --
 users mailing list
 users@lists.fedoraproject.org
 To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
 Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines




-- 
PGP:  06853DF7
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Stuart McGraw]

On 10/24/2011 09:33 AM, Zoltan Hoppar wrote:
 Let it be the default added software. Also I suggest to check out
 Chandler (www.chandlerproject.org) - maybe it improves our
 communication through this. Chandler is barely written in python, so
 please check it out.

The Chandler project appears comatose and no longer developed.

-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Jerry Feldman]

On 05/11/2011 08:58 AM, Genes MailLists wrote:
 $8.5 BB is a pretty serious premium for a company with zero revenue
 (ever) which sold 2 times previously - first to ebay for $2.5 BB and
 after that something  1 BB ... still no revenue but a decent enough brand.

What Skype has is technology that MSFT can use for its Lync products as
well as the subscriber lists.

-- 
Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 537C5846
PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB  CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Dmitri Bachtin]

Take care of using SIP clients at industry PBX systems. A lot of them write
supports SIP nowadays, but interpret and extend SIP in such a way that
nothing but their own periphery and software works with their
infrastructure. It's worse than with htmljavascript in browsers a few years
back.
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Richard Shaw]

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:48, Richard Shaw hobbes1...@gmail.com wrote:

 No review requests but I think I know why, it appears to be dependent
 on Sun Java, I'm not sure if it will work with Iced Tea... This could
 get interesting.

 OpenJDK is, for all intents and purpoes, Sun JRE.
 In fact, the differences should be minimum. And when JDK7 is released
 in a few weeks, the final code will be contributed back to OpenJDK (in
 fact, one can get an OpenJDK v7 now, although the code is not
 finished).

 So... the only difference will be if you get the freeware binary from
 Java.com, or the OpenJDK release from your favourite package
 manager...

 AFAIK IcedTea only includes a free implementation of the browser
 plug-in glue, and Java Web Start, which were not included as part of
 OpenJDK.

Yeah, for some reason I was confusing/substituting openJDK with
IcedTea. I guess because in previous Fedora versions I recall having
to install sun Java for web applets because IcedTea/openJDK didn't
work for everything (Juniper VPN for one).

Like I mentioned I have it compiled now but their rpm includes many
files that are not in their source (binaries, man pages, etc) and the
rpmlint isn't clean on their provided RPM so I'll see what I can do.

Richard
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Tim]

On Fri, 2011-05-13 at 09:02 +0200, Dmitri Bachtin wrote:
 Take care of using SIP clients at industry PBX systems. A lot of them
 write supports SIP nowadays, but interpret and extend SIP in such a
 way that nothing but their own periphery and software works with their
 infrastructure. It's worse than with htmljavascript in browsers a few
 years back.

Hmm, sip as in you can have a taste, but not a whole drink...  ;-)

How appropriate the name sip would seem.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.  I
read messages from the public lists.



-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Michael Hennebry]

Does using skype preclude also using other voip for incoming calls,
or is skype all elbows?

-- 
Michael   henne...@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu
Pessimist: The glass is half empty.
Optimist:   The glass is half full.
Engineer:   The glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[JD]

On 05/13/11 08:35, Michael Hennebry wrote:
 Does using skype preclude also using other voip for incoming calls,
 or is skype all elbows?

I believe each voip client uses a specific port.
So you can have multiple voip apps, listenning
for packets on different ports.
Also, since pulseaudio allows multiple audio clients,
you will have quiet an orchestra of sound when
answering mutiple incoming voip calls and asnwer
all of them at the same time (roughly speaking) :)
Of course, you will really need CPU bandwidth for
such an orchestra :)
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Tim]

On Fri, 2011-05-13 at 07:02 -0700, JD wrote:
 since pulseaudio allows multiple audio clients,
 you will have quiet an orchestra of sound when
 answering mutiple incoming voip calls and asnwer
 all of them at the same time (roughly speaking) :)

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how pulseaudio handles multiple
sound capture devices.

Does it handle them as well as it handles multiple sound generating
applications?  (Yes, that's a leading question.)

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.  I
read messages from the public lists.



-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[JD]

On 05/13/11 11:47, Tim wrote:
 On Fri, 2011-05-13 at 07:02 -0700, JD wrote:
 since pulseaudio allows multiple audio clients,
 you will have quiet an orchestra of sound when
 answering mutiple incoming voip calls and asnwer
 all of them at the same time (roughly speaking) :)
 One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how pulseaudio handles multiple
 sound capture devices.

 Does it handle them as well as it handles multiple sound generating
 applications?  (Yes, that's a leading question.)

Good question. I hope a developer familiar with
pulseaudio internals will proffer some insights.

-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Richard Shaw]

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote:
 Second thought: JITSI (formerly known as SIP communicator) makes use
 of native code for certain routines (surely having to do with webcam
 support and audio, to avoid the mess that was Java Media Framework
 (JMF)).

 You should ask in the Jitsi-developer mailing list, I´m sure they´ll
 be more than happy to help get Jitsi built smoothtly for Fedora repos
 using OpenJDK.

 http://www.jitsi.org/index.php/Documentation/FAQ#ml-subscribe

I've subscribed to the dev list we'll see where it leads, but one
problem I can see already is that it bundles ffmpeg, so the package
would have to be hosted on a 3rd party repo (RPMFusion or atrpms).
Even then, bundled libraries are still discouraged. Hopefully they
don't customize it and can use the system installed ffmpeg...

Richard
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Fri, 13 May 2011 07:58:58 +0200
Zoltan Hoppar hopp...@gmail.com wrote:

 HI Kevin,
 
 Well, yes - if we have this already in system - I won't lose it again
 this opportunity. We all of the ambassadors have the SIP number on our
 business card, and if I give it away - then I (we) would like to use
 it. 

Yes, it should be available in Fedora. ;) 

I've not set it up here, but it looks promising at least. 

 There is only 2 question has left:
 The first - most of us has an mobile phone, and mobile handset - is
 there any java based SIP client that can be binded with my Fedora?

No idea there. There are SIP clients on various phones. You may be able
to connect that to your home sipwhich install. Not sure. 

 Second one - this has the same capabilities as Asterisk?

No, it's different. 

 CU,
 
 Zoltan
 
 PS: I would like to update the wiki, with this info,

Please do anywere you see it out of date. ;) 

kevin


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Zoltan Hoppar]

HI Fernando,

Yesterday night I have tried out your suggestion, and works
surprisingly well. By the way, a far as I know there is an possibility
to use our Fedora SIP inside at FAS, right?

How can I acitvate  this?

Cu,

Zoltan

2011/5/12 Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com:
 On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 21:01, JD jd1...@gmail.com wrote:
 Plus, I can configure it with my local SIP VOIP service, and take
 You mean like Vonage or MagicJack?

 Has anyone heard of lingo (http://www.lingo.com/)
 voip provider?
 What is/was your experience with them?

 Exactly, SIP is an open protocol. So that means that you can use any
 VOIP softphone that you want (or a hardware terminal with RJ11
 output sockets to plug an analog phone)

 Basically any SIP connection (hardware or software) needs 3 parameters:

 Your SIP User name
 Your SIP password
 the SIP server providing you service.

 I´m based in Argentina so for local calls I use a local SIP provider,
 which provides me with a local Buenos Aires number +54 11 ...
 (www.metrotel.com.ar)

 But with JITSI I can have several SIP accounts logged in at once with
 phone numbers around the globe (like a local US number, another in UK,
 etc) for inbound calls.

 Here´s some:
 http://www.mydivert.com/buy_telephone_numbers/41_UnitedKingdom_numbers.
 http://www.mydivert.com/buy_telephone_numbers/42_USA_numbers.html

 I´m sure if you Google around you´ll be able to find many options for
 SIP telephony. Also, it´s possible to do IP-to-IP SIP calls without a
 monthly fee.

 http://www.ipkall.com/
 http://www.callcentric.com/
 FC
 --
 users mailing list
 users@lists.fedoraproject.org
 To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
 Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines




-- 
PGP:  06853DF7
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Zoltan Hoppar]

Hi guys,

Is there a perfect setup or description where we could set up an
Asterisk under Fedora? Our FPL wasn't worked at Digium?

Cu,

Zoltan

2011/5/12 Zoltan Hoppar hopp...@gmail.com:
 HI Fernando,

 Yesterday night I have tried out your suggestion, and works
 surprisingly well. By the way, a far as I know there is an possibility
 to use our Fedora SIP inside at FAS, right?

 How can I acitvate  this?

 Cu,

 Zoltan

 2011/5/12 Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com:
 On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 21:01, JD jd1...@gmail.com wrote:
 Plus, I can configure it with my local SIP VOIP service, and take
 You mean like Vonage or MagicJack?

 Has anyone heard of lingo (http://www.lingo.com/)
 voip provider?
 What is/was your experience with them?

 Exactly, SIP is an open protocol. So that means that you can use any
 VOIP softphone that you want (or a hardware terminal with RJ11
 output sockets to plug an analog phone)

 Basically any SIP connection (hardware or software) needs 3 parameters:

 Your SIP User name
 Your SIP password
 the SIP server providing you service.

 I´m based in Argentina so for local calls I use a local SIP provider,
 which provides me with a local Buenos Aires number +54 11 ...
 (www.metrotel.com.ar)

 But with JITSI I can have several SIP accounts logged in at once with
 phone numbers around the globe (like a local US number, another in UK,
 etc) for inbound calls.

 Here´s some:
 http://www.mydivert.com/buy_telephone_numbers/41_UnitedKingdom_numbers.
 http://www.mydivert.com/buy_telephone_numbers/42_USA_numbers.html

 I´m sure if you Google around you´ll be able to find many options for
 SIP telephony. Also, it´s possible to do IP-to-IP SIP calls without a
 monthly fee.

 http://www.ipkall.com/
 http://www.callcentric.com/
 FC
 --
 users mailing list
 users@lists.fedoraproject.org
 To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
 Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines




 --
 PGP:  06853DF7




-- 
PGP:  06853DF7
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Tim]

On Wed, 2011-05-11 at 19:46 -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote:
 The Amiga and Apple computers were paramount.
  
 In fact, even the parallel port in the Amiga is non-standard, although
 it is a DB25.

It'd been my observation that most parallel ports were very
non-standard.  There were different modes of operation, and many were
only suitable for connecting a printer (they were an output, only).

Though, the usual wiring to connect a printer to computer was usually
the same on most computers.  It were the extra pins that different.

My Amiga had a really annoying aspect to its parallel port, one of the
pins shared with the ring indicator signal from the serial port.

 For Video, they used a 23-pin db25-like connector... so people
 creating adapters at home had to use a DB25 female connector and saw
 off two pins in one end...
 
The 23-pin connector is unusual, but not unobtainable.  It was also used
in other places, particularly with equipment with numerous multi-pin
connectors (they'd use different pin numbers and genders, so that plugs
could only be connected to the right sockets).

Various home computers fail the general design credo of not putting
voltages on exposed pins.  Not that there's a dangerous voltage on them,
but the pins are exposed to being easily short circuited, and the
equipment often couldn't tolerate that.  They're also easily physically
damaged.

Then there's the connectors that are wired up to highly static-sensitive
electronics, without any precautions against it.  And circuitry that
doesn't survive hot-plugging.  Or circular connectors with weak pins
that get bent off by people rotating the plug around until it fits...


-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.  I
read messages from the public lists.



-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

RE: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[J.Witvliet]

 

-Original Message-
From: users-boun...@lists.fedoraproject.org 
[mailto:users-boun...@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of Tim
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 10:21 AM
To: Community support for Fedora users
Subject: Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

On Wed, 2011-05-11 at 19:46 -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote:
 The Amiga and Apple computers were paramount.
  
 In fact, even the parallel port in the Amiga is non-standard, although 
 it is a DB25.

It'd been my observation that most parallel ports were very non-standard.  
There were different modes of operation, and many were only suitable for 
connecting a printer (they were an output, only).

-Original Message-
Slightly off-topic,
Most paralel ports on those vintage machines were capable of both rx and tx
Allthough they could not transfer 8-bits wide.
Hence the lap-link protocol disected each byte into two nibbles.
Might seem slow, but anyway much faster than async at 19.200 bps which was 
often the highest reliable speed.

hw

__
Dit bericht kan informatie bevatten die niet voor u is bestemd. Indien u niet 
de geadresseerde bent of dit bericht abusievelijk aan u is toegezonden, wordt u 
verzocht dat aan de afzender te melden en het bericht te verwijderen. De Staat 
aanvaardt geen aansprakelijkheid voor schade, van welke aard ook, die verband 
houdt met risico's verbonden aan het elektronisch verzenden van berichten.

This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are 
not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are 
requested to inform the sender and delete the message. The State accepts no 
liability for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent in the 
electronic transmission of messages.
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Rick Sewill]

On Thursday, May 12, 2011 02:08:56 AM Zoltan Hoppar wrote:
 HI Fernando,
 
 Yesterday night I have tried out your suggestion, and works
 surprisingly well. By the way, a far as I know there is an possibility
 to use our Fedora SIP inside at FAS, right?

Please correct me if I am wrong, 
but I am under the impression Fedora talk has been retired.

Please see URL:
https://insight.fedoraproject.org/content/kevin-fenzi-fedora-talk-first-static-
then-silence-talkfedoraprojectorg-closing-2011-05-05

If Fedora talk has indeed, been retired, 
could someone update the wiki and other references to Fedora Talk?

-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Fernando Cassia]

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 04:08, Zoltan Hoppar hopp...@gmail.com wrote:
 to use our Fedora SIP inside at FAS, right?
 How can I acitvate  this?
 Cu
 Zoltan


Hi Zoltan,

Sorry I don´t get what you mean. What is our Fedora SIP and what is FAS?

FC
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Zoltan Hoppar]

Well guys,

After we prefer freedom, and much easier to you and make meetings in
voice, and skype has been bought by MS We have an opportunity to
all fedora users keep contacted with each other.
I really would like to see an hassle free opportunity instead of
fighting with google talk/empathy/decoders and this renew can be our
glue inside the community. Also I think this phone server can be our
podcaster, and an tool not just for us users, else mentors, and
between other communities. I think it's time to expand this to other
distros, and let it cooperating with others through this, and we don't
need anymore skype. I know that one is still an closed network, and
many of our contact has been stayed because there are no other
possibility.

So anything that I could do for this, to be resurrected - I'll be
here. Let it be the newest feature for F16, an be promoted as a
possibility, and we don't need skype at all.

Cu,

Zoltan

2011/5/12 Rick Sewill rsew...@gmail.com:
 On Thursday, May 12, 2011 02:08:56 AM Zoltan Hoppar wrote:
 HI Fernando,

 Yesterday night I have tried out your suggestion, and works
 surprisingly well. By the way, a far as I know there is an possibility
 to use our Fedora SIP inside at FAS, right?

 Please correct me if I am wrong,
 but I am under the impression Fedora talk has been retired.

 Please see URL:
 https://insight.fedoraproject.org/content/kevin-fenzi-fedora-talk-first-static-
 then-silence-talkfedoraprojectorg-closing-2011-05-05

 If Fedora talk has indeed, been retired,
 could someone update the wiki and other references to Fedora Talk?

 --
 users mailing list
 users@lists.fedoraproject.org
 To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
 Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines




-- 
PGP:  06853DF7
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Bruno Wolff III]

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 08:12:21 -0300,
  Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 04:08, Zoltan Hoppar hopp...@gmail.com wrote:
  to use our Fedora SIP inside at FAS, right?
  How can I acitvate  this?
  Cu
  Zoltan
 
 
 Hi Zoltan,
 
 Sorry I don´t get what you mean. What is our Fedora SIP and what is FAS?

Fedora ran an asterisk server that accepted inbound SIP connections from
contributors and could forward calls to contributors who ran SIP clients
that were registered with the server. There were also a few inbound numbers
for accepting inbound calls from normal phones. This system provided
conference calls and could record them. I used this system to participate
in a couple of FADs and tried using it for the Community Gaming experiment.

The usgage of the system was very low though and didn't justify the cost.

It would have been nice for FUDCONs, but people didn't plan ahead for its
use and it didn't get used much. If people wanted to make remote participation
in FUDCONs useful, some sort of live streaming of the on site discussions
really needs to be done. IRC can't keep up without dropping a lot.
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

RE: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Tim]

Tim:
 It'd been my observation that most parallel ports were very
 non-standard.  There were different modes of operation, and many were
 only suitable for connecting a printer (they were an output, only).

J.Witvliet:
 Most paralel ports on those vintage machines were capable of both rx
 and tx Allthough they could not transfer 8-bits wide.

Typically, by using the handshaking lines as inputs, rather than the
data lines as inputs and outputs, like they should do...

Which lead to strange uses and special hardware being the only way to
use them as a parallel I/O port.

Even for use with a printer, you found you had to fiddle around with
BIOS, or other configuration controls, to be able to use some parallel
printers, properly, with your computer.

In this situation, at least the Amiga did let you use the port as a
proper parallel port.  'were the PCs of the day playing annoying games
with hobbled ports.

I just wish modern computer designers could learn from the mistakes of
the past, and not make them again.  e.g. Crappy proprietary connectors
on old equipment, and copying the mistakes with finicky and fragile
connectors on new equipment (miniature firewire ports, dubious plastic
SATA ports, etc.).

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.  I
read messages from the public lists.



-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Richard Shaw]

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 6:03 PM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 18:54, Marko Vojinovic vvma...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thus the question: is there a FOSS VoIP app that provides roughly the same
 quality, reliability and free-as-in-beer service?

 I´ve been lately becoming a fan of Jitsi. It´s an open source client
 that does SIP VOIP (including video), Google Talk, Jabber, AIM, ICQ,
 and Facebook chat, all in one.

 Plus, I can configure it with my local SIP VOIP service, and take
 calls from the phone network with a local number (and make calls as
 well).

 http://jitsi.org/index.php/Main/Download

Do you (or anyone) know if someone has volunteered to make an official
Fedora package? I might volunteer if no one else has...

I'll check for a review request in bugzilla.

Richard
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Thu, 12 May 2011 13:16:47 +0200
Zoltan Hoppar hopp...@gmail.com wrote:

 Well guys,
 
 After we prefer freedom, and much easier to you and make meetings in
 voice, and skype has been bought by MS We have an opportunity to
 all fedora users keep contacted with each other.
 I really would like to see an hassle free opportunity instead of
 fighting with google talk/empathy/decoders and this renew can be our
 glue inside the community. Also I think this phone server can be our
 podcaster, and an tool not just for us users, else mentors, and
 between other communities. I think it's time to expand this to other
 distros, and let it cooperating with others through this, and we don't
 need anymore skype. I know that one is still an closed network, and
 many of our contact has been stayed because there are no other
 possibility.
 
 So anything that I could do for this, to be resurrected - I'll be
 here. Let it be the newest feature for F16, an be promoted as a
 possibility, and we don't need skype at all.

Yes, fedora talk has been retired. 

It was not used very much at all, and didn't have any interested folks
willing to fix it and maintain it moving forward. ;( 

I'd suggest looking instead at Sip Witch: 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SIP_Witch_Domain_Telephony
(added as a feature in f13)

This basically allows you to run your own sip server and let others
connect to it to talk to you. 

kevin


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Richard Shaw]

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Richard Shaw hobbes1...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 6:03 PM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 18:54, Marko Vojinovic vvma...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thus the question: is there a FOSS VoIP app that provides roughly the same
 quality, reliability and free-as-in-beer service?

 I´ve been lately becoming a fan of Jitsi. It´s an open source client
 that does SIP VOIP (including video), Google Talk, Jabber, AIM, ICQ,
 and Facebook chat, all in one.

 Plus, I can configure it with my local SIP VOIP service, and take
 calls from the phone network with a local number (and make calls as
 well).

 http://jitsi.org/index.php/Main/Download

 Do you (or anyone) know if someone has volunteered to make an official
 Fedora package? I might volunteer if no one else has...

 I'll check for a review request in bugzilla.

No review requests but I think I know why, it appears to be dependent
on Sun Java, I'm not sure if it will work with Iced Tea... This could
get interesting.

Richard
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: ***BULK*** Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Steve Underwood]

On 05/12/2011 09:10 PM, Richard Shaw wrote:
 On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 6:03 PM, Fernando Cassiafcas...@gmail.com  wrote:
 On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 18:54, Marko Vojinovicvvma...@gmail.com  wrote:
 Thus the question: is there a FOSS VoIP app that provides roughly the same
 quality, reliability and free-as-in-beer service?
 I´ve been lately becoming a fan of Jitsi. It´s an open source client
 that does SIP VOIP (including video), Google Talk, Jabber, AIM, ICQ,
 and Facebook chat, all in one.

 Plus, I can configure it with my local SIP VOIP service, and take
 calls from the phone network with a local number (and make calls as
 well).

 http://jitsi.org/index.php/Main/Download
 Do you (or anyone) know if someone has volunteered to make an official
 Fedora package? I might volunteer if no one else has...

 I'll check for a review request in bugzilla.

 Richard
There were Fedora RPMs for it under its old name - SIP Communicator.

Steve

-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: ***BULK*** Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Richard Shaw]

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Steve Underwood ste...@coppice.org wrote:
 On 05/12/2011 09:10 PM, Richard Shaw wrote:
 On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 6:03 PM, Fernando Cassiafcas...@gmail.com  wrote:
 On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 18:54, Marko Vojinovicvvma...@gmail.com  wrote:
 Thus the question: is there a FOSS VoIP app that provides roughly the same
 quality, reliability and free-as-in-beer service?
 I´ve been lately becoming a fan of Jitsi. It´s an open source client
 that does SIP VOIP (including video), Google Talk, Jabber, AIM, ICQ,
 and Facebook chat, all in one.

 Plus, I can configure it with my local SIP VOIP service, and take
 calls from the phone network with a local number (and make calls as
 well).

 http://jitsi.org/index.php/Main/Download
 Do you (or anyone) know if someone has volunteered to make an official
 Fedora package? I might volunteer if no one else has...

 I'll check for a review request in bugzilla.

 Richard
 There were Fedora RPMs for it under its old name - SIP Communicator.

Can't find anything now, at least on F14...

Richard
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Lamar Owen]

On Wednesday, May 11, 2011 01:03:56 PM Joe Zeff wrote:
 On 05/11/2011 08:32 AM, James McKenzie wrote:
  There iS No Such Thing As A Free Lunch (TSNTAAFL).
 
 And that is Yet Another Way to mangle a perfectly good acronym: There 
 *Ain't* No Such Thing As A Free Lunch (TANSTAAFL).  Bob Heinlein knew 
 what he was doing; second-guessing him just messes things up.

And as much as I enjoy reading Heinlein and Niven, the term predates them both.
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Richard Shaw]

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Richard Shaw hobbes1...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Richard Shaw hobbes1...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 6:03 PM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 18:54, Marko Vojinovic vvma...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thus the question: is there a FOSS VoIP app that provides roughly the same
 quality, reliability and free-as-in-beer service?

 I´ve been lately becoming a fan of Jitsi. It´s an open source client
 that does SIP VOIP (including video), Google Talk, Jabber, AIM, ICQ,
 and Facebook chat, all in one.

 Plus, I can configure it with my local SIP VOIP service, and take
 calls from the phone network with a local number (and make calls as
 well).

 http://jitsi.org/index.php/Main/Download

 Do you (or anyone) know if someone has volunteered to make an official
 Fedora package? I might volunteer if no one else has...

 I'll check for a review request in bugzilla.

 No review requests but I think I know why, it appears to be dependent
 on Sun Java, I'm not sure if it will work with Iced Tea... This could
 get interesting.

I got it to compile with the free java but the install is manual (no
make install or equivalent) and I compared the output of the build
to the files in the provided generic RPM and there's quite a few
missing. I guess I could pull them from the generic RPM but that would
get messy.

Richard
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Fernando Cassia]

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:48, Richard Shaw hobbes1...@gmail.com wrote:

 No review requests but I think I know why, it appears to be dependent
 on Sun Java, I'm not sure if it will work with Iced Tea... This could
 get interesting.

OpenJDK is, for all intents and purpoes, Sun JRE.
In fact, the differences should be minimum. And when JDK7 is released
in a few weeks, the final code will be contributed back to OpenJDK (in
fact, one can get an OpenJDK v7 now, although the code is not
finished).

So... the only difference will be if you get the freeware binary from
Java.com, or the OpenJDK release from your favourite package
manager...

AFAIK IcedTea only includes a free implementation of the browser
plug-in glue, and Java Web Start, which were not included as part of
OpenJDK.

FC
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Fernando Cassia]

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 23:33, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote:
 So... the only difference will be if you get the freeware binary from
 Java.com, or the OpenJDK release from your favourite package
 manager...

 AFAIK IcedTea only includes a free implementation of the browser
 plug-in glue, and Java Web Start, which were not included as part of
 OpenJDK.

 FC

Second thought: JITSI (formerly known as SIP communicator) makes use
of native code for certain routines (surely having to do with webcam
support and audio, to avoid the mess that was Java Media Framework
(JMF)).

You should ask in the Jitsi-developer mailing list, I´m sure they´ll
be more than happy to help get Jitsi built smoothtly for Fedora repos
using OpenJDK.

http://www.jitsi.org/index.php/Documentation/FAQ#ml-subscribe
FC
-- 
Tools are a way to amplify our senses so that we can expand our reach
in order to expropiate space, compress time, and secure ourselves. A
gun extends the power of our throwing arms. An automobile is an
extension of our legs. Computers amplify our memories. - T.E.D.
Space Time, and Modernity J. Rifkin
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Zoltan Hoppar]

HI Kevin,

Well, yes - if we have this already in system - I won't lose it again
this opportunity. We all of the ambassadors have the SIP number on our
business card, and if I give it away - then I (we) would like to use
it. There is only 2 question has left:
The first - most of us has an mobile phone, and mobile handset - is
there any java based SIP client that can be binded with my Fedora?
Second one - this has the same capabilities as Asterisk?

CU,

Zoltan

PS: I would like to update the wiki, with this info,

2011/5/12 Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com:
 On Thu, 12 May 2011 13:16:47 +0200
 Zoltan Hoppar hopp...@gmail.com wrote:

 Well guys,

 After we prefer freedom, and much easier to you and make meetings in
 voice, and skype has been bought by MS We have an opportunity to
 all fedora users keep contacted with each other.
 I really would like to see an hassle free opportunity instead of
 fighting with google talk/empathy/decoders and this renew can be our
 glue inside the community. Also I think this phone server can be our
 podcaster, and an tool not just for us users, else mentors, and
 between other communities. I think it's time to expand this to other
 distros, and let it cooperating with others through this, and we don't
 need anymore skype. I know that one is still an closed network, and
 many of our contact has been stayed because there are no other
 possibility.

 So anything that I could do for this, to be resurrected - I'll be
 here. Let it be the newest feature for F16, an be promoted as a
 possibility, and we don't need skype at all.

 Yes, fedora talk has been retired.

 It was not used very much at all, and didn't have any interested folks
 willing to fix it and maintain it moving forward. ;(

 I'd suggest looking instead at Sip Witch:
 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SIP_Witch_Domain_Telephony
 (added as a feature in f13)

 This basically allows you to run your own sip server and let others
 connect to it to talk to you.

 kevin

 --
 users mailing list
 users@lists.fedoraproject.org
 To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
 Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines





-- 
PGP:  06853DF7
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Roger]

snip They've already lost this one. I will NOT do business with
Microsoft.


Just before the 6:30 commercial news tonight there was a report, I think
SBS or ABC, on the Microsoft/Skype purchase and it was said among other
things that Microsoft would be charging each user $2-$3 for using Skype
And that Microsoft has lost so many devices because no one wants windows
7 but Microsoft will be providing skype with windows 7 in an effort to
entice users back.
I did not catch all the interview but decided to look into Ekiga or
alternatives asap.
Roger


-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Zoltan Hoppar]

I think there are serious blocking going on from microsoft parties -
they have created Attachmate (consists from Apple, Oracle, MS, and few
others such sized companies), and grabbed Novell with Suse, they have
working with Nokia, and also eaten for breakfast Sun too. If anybody
tries to make linux or free software business, they will be killed by
low budget, or with patents and the court. Also, I think the new
message at linux conferences, where they paying out the whole
conferece will not use for open source We have to do something
quickly

2011/5/11 Roger are...@bigpond.com:

 snip They've already lost this one. I will NOT do business with
 Microsoft.


 Just before the 6:30 commercial news tonight there was a report, I think
 SBS or ABC, on the Microsoft/Skype purchase and it was said among other
 things that Microsoft would be charging each user $2-$3 for using Skype
 And that Microsoft has lost so many devices because no one wants windows
 7 but Microsoft will be providing skype with windows 7 in an effort to
 entice users back.
 I did not catch all the interview but decided to look into Ekiga or
 alternatives asap.
 Roger


 --
 users mailing list
 users@lists.fedoraproject.org
 To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
 Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines




-- 
PGP:  06853DF7
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Tim]

On Tue, 2011-05-10 at 22:54 +0100, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
 Ok, I just lost enthusiasm in further use of skype. Being closed source was 
 bad enough already, but I tolerated it due to its good-enough quality,

What constitutes good enough, though?  I've yet to find any VOIP that
I'm happy with.  Like mobile (cell) phones, I have to guess at every
second word, because of continual sound drop outs, delays and stutters.
It's like listening to a chewed compact audio cassette from 1976.

 reliability and free-of-charge use for skype-to-skype calls. But now that 
 Microsoft is taking it over, I suddenly lost faith that these good features 
 will still be there from now on (not to mention Linux support).

I never have faith in any proprietary software.  It works in unknown
ways, often devious ways, and changes between releases.  You have to
play the (expensive) update cycle, which all-too-often becomes a
downgrade.  You get locked into something because the other half of your
conversation requires something specific of you (i.e. both of you need
the same software).  And then the company goes belly-up, or gets bought
out.

But how far do you want to go?

Do you just want a client, that'll connect to an external server?
There's various things that can do that, and you'll just have the fun of
configuration and choosing appropriate codecs to sort out.  In this
case, look for what server providers you can readily access.  Some of
them even handle giving you a regular phone number, and being able to
make calls to ordinary phone lines, and vice versa.

Do you want to install your own VOIP server (like Asterisk)?  You can
pretty much do what you want (have a real number, link handsets around
your house to it and the ordinary phone line, put annoying telemarketers
on hold with a series of press 1 for this, and press 2 for that, goose
chases).

What about using some VOIP hardware?  Get yourself a VOIP handset that
plugs into an ethernet port, or a VOIP box to go between the network and
an ordinary telephone, and you don't even need the computer turned on.
A $200 (guestimate) handset sounds more practical than using a $1000
computer as a telephone.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.  I
read messages from the public lists.



-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Alan Cox]

Microsoft is an advertising company so it'll be able to make very good
use of that data to manage and target adverts better.

It's not really down to FOSS alternatives. There are *standards* for
voice over IP. I guess Skype fits MS well in that its a proprietary
non-standard 8)

Alan
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2011-05-11 at 12:49 +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
 Microsoft is an advertising company so it'll be able to make very good
 use of that data to manage and target adverts better.
 
 It's not really down to FOSS alternatives. There are *standards* for
 voice over IP. I guess Skype fits MS well in that its a proprietary
 non-standard 8)

Actually there are, notably SIP. However one is reminded of Andy
Tanenbaum's well-known remark: The good thing about standards is that
if you don't like one of them, you can just use a different one.

poc

-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Genes MailLists]

On 05/11/2011 07:49 AM, Alan Cox wrote:
 Microsoft is an advertising company so it'll be able to make very good
 use of that data to manage and target adverts better.
 
 It's not really down to FOSS alternatives. There are *standards* for
 voice over IP. I guess Skype fits MS well in that its a proprietary
 non-standard 8)
 
 Alan

$8.5 BB is a pretty serious premium for a company with zero revenue
(ever) which sold 2 times previously - first to ebay for $2.5 BB and
after that something  1 BB ... still no revenue but a decent enough brand.

Anything skype has/had that google voice/talk doesn't ?


 g/
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Genes MailLists]

On 05/11/2011 08:58 AM, Genes MailLists wrote:

 $8.5 BB is a pretty serious premium for a company with zero revenue
 (ever) which sold 2 times previously - first to ebay for $2.5 BB and
 after that something  1 BB ... still no revenue but a decent enough brand.
 


  s/revenue/earnings/g  previous_mesage
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Lamar Owen]

On Wednesday, May 11, 2011 07:49:12 AM Alan Cox wrote:
 It's not really down to FOSS alternatives. There are *standards* for
 voice over IP. 

And thanks to NAT-hatred in the standards process, most of those require 
finagling firewall forwarding fritters..er... rules; H.323 for instance seems 
to be designed from the ground up specifically to break NAT, and requires some 
major work at the NAT box to make work properly.  SIP and others as well.

So supporting VoIP from behind a typical residential NAT box isn't as 
straightforward as it could be; behind a Cisco or a well-configured Linux NAT 
box it's not hard.

Skype's big selling point is that it works just fine through NAT, even if the 
NAT is on both ends (NAT444), or on both ends and in the middle (NAT, CGN, 
etc)and no special port-forwards or other applications-level gatewaying or 
any of those other tricks the *standard* VoIP protocols seem to require for no 
good reasonother than to break NAT :-)

Sorry, pet peeve there.
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[JD]

On 05/11/11 01:36, Zoltan Hoppar wrote:
 I think there are serious blocking going on from microsoft parties -
 they have created Attachmate (consists from Apple, Oracle, MS, and few
 others such sized companies), and grabbed Novell with Suse, they have
 working with Nokia, and also eaten for breakfast Sun too. If anybody
 tries to make linux or free software business, they will be killed by
 low budget, or with patents and the court. Also, I think the new
 message at linux conferences, where they paying out the whole
 conferece will not use for open source We have to do something
 quickly

With the kind of money they have, they can buy all
three branches of the government :)


-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Genes MailLists]

On 05/11/2011 10:58 AM, JD wrote:
 I have used Google voice/talk.
 It is too clumsy, lacks the features of skype.

  Curious what features skype has that are missing ?

  I think the user search feature is missing ... (not sure that is good
or bad .. depends on your privacy views I suppose?)  Anything else ?

-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Genes MailLists]

On 05/11/2011 11:15 AM, JD wrote:

  I dont use it much but my experience seems quite different to yours ..


 audio/video device selection

  on my phone thats a non-issue - I dont have a linux box with multiple
devices so I have not seen this.

 Ability to call realworld phone numbers
  Definitely can do that with google .. I've used it. In fact on my
android phone, by default I turned on the option for all international
calls use google voice automatically (cheaper than my phone carrier)

 international numbers,
  Calling yes same price as skype - creating a number I don't know which
countries are currently supported.

 real time notifications,
  dont understand - they all do don't they?

 changing the port used,
  Yah - haven't seen that option ..  but I have not looked.

 blocking unwanted intruders,
   I have several blocked phone numbers ...

 restricting the use of the video to people on your contacts list...'
   have not looked ..



-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[James McKenzie]

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 8:04 AM, Genes MailLists li...@sapience.com wrote:
 On 05/11/2011 10:58 AM, JD wrote:
 I have used Google voice/talk.
 It is too clumsy, lacks the features of skype.

  Curious what features skype has that are missing ?

  I think the user search feature is missing ... (not sure that is good
 or bad .. depends on your privacy views I suppose?)  Anything else ?

Here is some serious food for thought (and no this is not to induce a
flame war, but for those who have a problem with companies 'making
money')

There iS No Such Thing As A Free Lunch (TSNTAAFL).  In other words,
Skype had to be making money somehow.  There are and continue to be
data hooks there or you were subject to ads, or other obnoxious stuff.
 I hope this ends with a pay-as-you-go service from Microsoft.
Even your 'free' distributions of Linux have to make money.  Fedora,
primarily sponsored by RedHat does this by relying on technical
support sales (Linux is FREE remember).  OpenOffice.org relied on Sun
and is being thrown to the hounds (we in America call it being thrown
to the curb, in other words taken out in the trash) by Oracle.
Yes, we do provide hours of 'free' support and in some cases hours of
coding efforts.  Most of us have 'day jobs' that put food on the
table.  There comes a time when we either give up the day job or we
give up the project(s) we were working on.
Microsoft/Apple make money, fists full of it.  How?  They sell the
product as well as technical support.  Would any of us go to a major
computer manufacturing company and DEMAND the same thing that we
DEMAND of software?  That is:  Give me your latest/greatest for free?
The folks at most of those companies would laugh and then show us the
door.  Most of us would not think of doing so.  So, when you grumble
that some fabulous software you are using has gone 'commercial' and
now charges for its service, remember TSNTAAFL and that someone is now
relying on that product to put food on the table, a roof over their
head and clothes on their backs.  I don't begrudge Microsoft for
buying Skype.  What I do begrudge is those folks that want something
for nothing (or next to it.)  And no, I don't mind that they are going
to take it 'propriatary' either.  They have to do something above and
beyond the standard to make us want to purchase it.  Remember, there
is a game data exchange standard.  How many companies adhere to it?
None as far as I can count.
Again, do not take this as anything other than a personal opinion on
why this discussion is a waste of time and effort.  Skype has been
bought and there is nothing out there like it.  Not in the Linux world
nor the Windows world.  People will continue to use it in both worlds.

James McKenzie
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Tim]

On Wed, 2011-05-11 at 10:27 -0400, Lamar Owen wrote:
 And thanks to NAT-hatred in the standards process, most of those
 require finagling firewall forwarding fritters..er... rules

Well, to be fair, *NAT* is an obstacle, in the real meaning of the word.
It does make it difficult to do anything that must accept an incoming
connection.  The only real way to get around that is for your client to
make use of a server, so that means true peer-to-peer is out of the
question, some external (or on the border) management is required.  NAT,
*itself*, is the major problem.

And on the other hand, various protocols do require far too many ports,
and sometimes unplannable port numbers, open in various directions.  So,
never mind NAT, they're a networking nightmare in themselves.  Making
your webserver accessible, for instance, is rather easy; you just open
port 80.  If other clients would stop being NAT *stupid*, and be more
simple in design, this would be less of an issue.  We're stuck with NAT,
for the long term, so clients and protocols would be better designed not
to be so damn over-complicated.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.  I
read messages from the public lists.



-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Tim]

On Wed, 2011-05-11 at 07:52 -0700, JD wrote:
 With the kind of money they have, they can buy all
 three branches of the government :)

Ah, so *that's* what's wrong with government.  It's all branches, and
only branches.  No roots, no trunk, no flowers, no fruit.  Just
sticks...


-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.  I
read messages from the public lists.



-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines

Re: Best FOSS alternative for skype?

[Joe Zeff]

On 05/11/2011 05:19 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
 Actually there are, notably SIP. However one is reminded of Andy
 Tanenbaum's well-known remark: The good thing about standards is that
 if you don't like one of them, you can just use a different one.

And, as somebody else (I don't know who.) pointed out, Microsoft 
follows standards like migrating salmon follow caribou.
-- 
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines