Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
I totally agree. LCN's here in the UK and in Australia is central to ordinary users experience of DVB (aka Freeview here in the UK). At present we use scan commands -u switch to generate the LCN data. Having vdr handle this form of channel numbering internally would seem to be the better option but a plugin would be the next best option. On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 1:18 AM, Malcolm Caldwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 11:11 +0200, Klaus Schmidinger wrote: On 10/06/08 11:06, Laz wrote: On Monday 06 Oct 2008, Frank Scherthan wrote: Laz schrieb: On Sunday 05 Oct 2008, Gavin Hamill wrote: On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 15:10 +0100, Dave P wrote: On another Freeview specific note, I'd love to have my channels renumbered to their proper Freeview numbers. At the moment, I have to go through and move them about by hand every time something changes! I don't think there is currently any support for assigning channels a specific number within vdr (probably not much point with gazillions of satellite channels but more useful with the handful of terrestrial Freeview ones in the UK). man 5 vdr: A group delimiter can also be used to just set the next channel's number, without an explicit delimiter text, as in :@201 That's what I mean by doing it by hand! My channels.conf is littered with those! ;) Would be nice if each channel entry had a field for channel number instead, especially when they helpfully decide to move a channel! It's also the way real set-top boxes do it. I think scan can output the channel numbers to a vdr-readable channels.conf but I think that just puts in a :@1, :@2, :@3, etc. every other line. Just doesn't seem neat to me, especially as the channel numbers are broadcast. I did start looking at this a while back but never got very far: might have another go... I don't think it makes any sense to put actual channel numbers into each channel's line in channels.conf. For one, what if different providers want to use the same channel numbers? And: what if channels are moved around, inserted or deleted? It might not make sense in your environment. In the UK and here in Australia there are fixed, advertised channel numbers. It makes sense if something is advertised as being on channel 20, then pressing '2' and then '0' should tune to that channel. Makes sense means that I can describe it to my wife. The channel numbers are implicitly derived from the position of each channel in the channels.conf file. Offsets can be suggested with :@nnn lines, but are only hints and may be ignored if there are too many channels before them to actually implement the desired numbers. Maybe I should try to explain this to my wife instead? Klaus ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr -- Convergent Home Technologies Ltd www.dianemo.co.uk Tel: +44 (0)1245 330101 Fax: +44 (0)1245 263916 Unit 205 Waterhouse Business Centre Cromar Way Chelmsford Essex CM1 2QE UK ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 09:14 +0100, Andrew Herron wrote: I totally agree. LCN's here in the UK and in Australia is central to ordinary users experience of DVB (aka Freeview here in the UK). At present we use scan commands -u switch to generate the LCN data. Having vdr handle this form of channel numbering internally would seem to be the better option but a plugin would be the next best option. Users of a single closed system like Freeview, cable, or Sky will certainly be accustomed to preset channel numbers in the EPG - after all Sky et al will be charging different rates to content providers depending on how 'premium' the channel number is.. As a result, in the UK at least, advertising for channels includes the channel number on all three platforms - Freeview, cable and Sky.. Channel numbers might be a novel concept for users of a steerable dish, but for most of us they're utterly standard and quite mandatory for non-technical users. gdh ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
On Tuesday 07 Oct 2008, Malcolm Caldwell wrote: On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 11:11 +0200, Klaus Schmidinger wrote: I don't think it makes any sense to put actual channel numbers into each channel's line in channels.conf. For one, what if different providers want to use the same channel numbers? And: what if channels are moved around, inserted or deleted? It might not make sense in your environment. In the UK and here in Australia there are fixed, advertised channel numbers. It makes sense if something is advertised as being on channel 20, then pressing '2' and then '0' should tune to that channel. Makes sense means that I can describe it to my wife. Exactly. However, I do see Klaus's point too, and I always had visions of it never being in core vdr! If I had hundreds of satellite channels carefully organised, I'd be a tad hacked off if something helpfully renumbered them for me!! This is the sort of feature which would be ideal as a plugin, i.e. only those who are interested need to compile and use it. As to whether it is possible to obtain the relevant LCN info from the DVB stream is possible from a plugin or not (I'd have thought a patch would be needed for this but haven't looked yet), or whether it is possible to renumber channels from a plugin. I think I gave up before when I didn't see an easy cChannel.Renumber() function or similar but I could be misremembering. The channel numbers are implicitly derived from the position of each channel in the channels.conf file. Offsets can be suggested with :@nnn lines, but are only hints and may be ignored if there are too many channels before them to actually implement the desired numbers. Maybe I should try to explain this to my wife instead? ;-) As I say, I tend to check the numbering every now and then and reorder channels.conf by hand inserting lots of :@nnn place holders. Cheers, Laz ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
On 10/07/08 02:18, Malcolm Caldwell wrote: On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 11:11 +0200, Klaus Schmidinger wrote: On 10/06/08 11:06, Laz wrote: On Monday 06 Oct 2008, Frank Scherthan wrote: Laz schrieb: On Sunday 05 Oct 2008, Gavin Hamill wrote: On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 15:10 +0100, Dave P wrote: On another Freeview specific note, I'd love to have my channels renumbered to their proper Freeview numbers. At the moment, I have to go through and move them about by hand every time something changes! I don't think there is currently any support for assigning channels a specific number within vdr (probably not much point with gazillions of satellite channels but more useful with the handful of terrestrial Freeview ones in the UK). man 5 vdr: A group delimiter can also be used to just set the next channel’s number, without an explicit delimiter text, as in :@201 That's what I mean by doing it by hand! My channels.conf is littered with those! ;) Would be nice if each channel entry had a field for channel number instead, especially when they helpfully decide to move a channel! It's also the way real set-top boxes do it. I think scan can output the channel numbers to a vdr-readable channels.conf but I think that just puts in a :@1, :@2, :@3, etc. every other line. Just doesn't seem neat to me, especially as the channel numbers are broadcast. I did start looking at this a while back but never got very far: might have another go... I don't think it makes any sense to put actual channel numbers into each channel's line in channels.conf. For one, what if different providers want to use the same channel numbers? And: what if channels are moved around, inserted or deleted? It might not make sense in your environment. It certainly doesn't - with several providers and mixed DVB-S and DVB-T channels the idea of each provider wanting to dictate channel numbers is just not feasible. In the UK and here in Australia there are fixed, advertised channel numbers. Well, if you have only a single provider and/or transmission method, I can see that you might identify a channel by its number. It makes sense if something is advertised as being on channel 20, then pressing '2' and then '0' should tune to that channel. Makes sense means that I can describe it to my wife. The channel numbers are implicitly derived from the position of each channel in the channels.conf file. Offsets can be suggested with :@nnn lines, but are only hints and may be ignored if there are too many channels before them to actually implement the desired numbers. Maybe I should try to explain this to my wife instead? You can number your channels in whatever way you want, with the existing means implemented in VDR - it just doesn't happen automatically. So there's no need to explain anythign to your wife, if you just sort your channels the right way ;-) Are these channel numbers broadcast in a way that's covered in the DVB SI standard? If so, I see no reason why VDR shouldn't (optionally) use them when sorting channels. But they sure have no place in channels.conf, in there I would still use :@nnn lines to set the offsets. Klaus ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
On 10/07/08 10:26, Gavin Hamill wrote: On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 09:14 +0100, Andrew Herron wrote: I totally agree. LCN's here in the UK and in Australia is central to ordinary users experience of DVB (aka Freeview here in the UK). At present we use scan commands -u switch to generate the LCN data. Having vdr handle this form of channel numbering internally would seem to be the better option but a plugin would be the next best option. Users of a single closed system like Freeview, cable, or Sky will certainly be accustomed to preset channel numbers in the EPG - after all Sky et al will be charging different rates to content providers depending on how 'premium' the channel number is.. As a result, in the UK at least, advertising for channels includes the channel number on all three platforms - Freeview, cable and Sky.. Channel numbers might be a novel concept for users of a steerable dish, but for most of us they're utterly standard and quite mandatory for non-technical users. On my Sky digibox Sky One is on chanel number 106 - but I never saw that number in any programme announcement on Sky. The only say ... on Sky One, and not ... on channel 106. So where exactly are the channel numbers really used? BTW: on my VDR the Sky channels start at 201 ;-) Klaus ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
On Tuesday 07 October 2008, Laz wrote: This is the sort of feature which would be ideal as a plugin, i.e. only those who are interested need to compile and use it. As to whether it is possible to obtain the relevant LCN info from the DVB stream is possible from a plugin or not (I'd have thought a patch would be needed for this but haven't looked yet), or whether it is possible to renumber channels from a plugin. It is possible to capture the LCN from a plugin (it's in the NIT as descriptor id 0x83), though a patch to libsi would be needed to decode the descriptor in the standard way used elsewhere in VDR. -- Dave ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 13:48 +0200, Klaus Schmidinger wrote: On 10/07/08 10:26, Gavin Hamill wrote: On my Sky digibox Sky One is on chanel number 106 - but I never saw that number in any programme announcement on Sky. The only say ... on Sky One, and not ... on channel 106. So where exactly are the channel numbers really used? BTW: on my VDR the Sky channels start at 201 ;-) Well I can say that poster / magazine advertising in the UK almost always includes the channel number, especially if it's a channel not produced by Sky themselves. Sky One is a special case because it's not carried on Freeview or cable. :) (Our national cable-co refused to pay what Sky demanded for Sky One carriage...) Cheers, Gavin. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
On Tuesday 07 October 2008, Klaus Schmidinger wrote: Are these channel numbers broadcast in a way that's covered in the DVB SI standard? If so, I see no reason why VDR shouldn't (optionally) use them when sorting channels. But they sure have no place in channels.conf, in there I would still use :@nnn lines to set the offsets. LCN is not in ETSI 300 168, it uses a descriptor number in the 'private' range. A web search suggests that it is in the E-Book. Dave ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
Yep... looks that way. Must be the E-Book On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 4:47 PM, Dave P [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 07 October 2008, Klaus Schmidinger wrote: Are these channel numbers broadcast in a way that's covered in the DVB SI standard? If so, I see no reason why VDR shouldn't (optionally) use them when sorting channels. But they sure have no place in channels.conf, in there I would still use :@nnn lines to set the offsets. LCN is not in ETSI 300 168, it uses a descriptor number in the 'private' range. A web search suggests that it is in the E-Book. Dave ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr -- Convergent Home Technologies Ltd www.dianemo.co.uk Tel: +44 (0)1245 330101 Fax: +44 (0)1245 263916 Unit 205 Waterhouse Business Centre Cromar Way Chelmsford Essex CM1 2QE UK ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
On Sunday 05 Oct 2008, Gavin Hamill wrote: On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 15:10 +0100, Dave P wrote: A few months ago I posted a VDR patch to implement support for Freeview+, the cut-down version of TV-Anytime (ETSI TS 102 323) broadcast in the UK. I've prepared a new version against VDR 1.6.0-2, and included a simple Perl script which automatically creates timers for all of the programmes in a series. Run it overnight as a cron job and never miss your favourite series again! The patch is at http://www.pickles.me.uk/vdrtva-0.0.3.tar.gz Interesting stuff :) I don't suppose it's possible to implement this as a plugin rather than a patch to VDR's core? Is there not enough core exposed via the plugin API? I can't see the patch going into VDR core any time because it's focused squarely at UK users only and Klaus would never have a use for it (unlike the Premiere-specific multi-angle support) so I'm worried that a lot of users will be missing out, especially if they use a packaged VDR. Indeed it does look very interesting: it's really annoying when things get repeated several times during the week. Should make life a bit easier rather than making epgsearch look for really specific timers! I will try to give it a go. On another Freeview specific note, I'd love to have my channels renumbered to their proper Freeview numbers. At the moment, I have to go through and move them about by hand every time something changes! I don't think there is currently any support for assigning channels a specific number within vdr (probably not much point with gazillions of satellite channels but more useful with the handful of terrestrial Freeview ones in the UK). Cheers, Laz ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
Laz schrieb: On Sunday 05 Oct 2008, Gavin Hamill wrote: On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 15:10 +0100, Dave P wrote: On another Freeview specific note, I'd love to have my channels renumbered to their proper Freeview numbers. At the moment, I have to go through and move them about by hand every time something changes! I don't think there is currently any support for assigning channels a specific number within vdr (probably not much point with gazillions of satellite channels but more useful with the handful of terrestrial Freeview ones in the UK). man 5 vdr: A group delimiter can also be used to just set the next channel’s number, without an explicit delimiter text, as in :@201 Frank ;) ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
On Monday 06 Oct 2008, Frank Scherthan wrote: Laz schrieb: On Sunday 05 Oct 2008, Gavin Hamill wrote: On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 15:10 +0100, Dave P wrote: On another Freeview specific note, I'd love to have my channels renumbered to their proper Freeview numbers. At the moment, I have to go through and move them about by hand every time something changes! I don't think there is currently any support for assigning channels a specific number within vdr (probably not much point with gazillions of satellite channels but more useful with the handful of terrestrial Freeview ones in the UK). man 5 vdr: A group delimiter can also be used to just set the next channel’s number, without an explicit delimiter text, as in :@201 That's what I mean by doing it by hand! My channels.conf is littered with those! ;) Would be nice if each channel entry had a field for channel number instead, especially when they helpfully decide to move a channel! It's also the way real set-top boxes do it. I think scan can output the channel numbers to a vdr-readable channels.conf but I think that just puts in a :@1, :@2, :@3, etc. every other line. Just doesn't seem neat to me, especially as the channel numbers are broadcast. I did start looking at this a while back but never got very far: might have another go... Cheers, Laz ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
On 10/06/08 11:06, Laz wrote: On Monday 06 Oct 2008, Frank Scherthan wrote: Laz schrieb: On Sunday 05 Oct 2008, Gavin Hamill wrote: On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 15:10 +0100, Dave P wrote: On another Freeview specific note, I'd love to have my channels renumbered to their proper Freeview numbers. At the moment, I have to go through and move them about by hand every time something changes! I don't think there is currently any support for assigning channels a specific number within vdr (probably not much point with gazillions of satellite channels but more useful with the handful of terrestrial Freeview ones in the UK). man 5 vdr: A group delimiter can also be used to just set the next channel’s number, without an explicit delimiter text, as in :@201 That's what I mean by doing it by hand! My channels.conf is littered with those! ;) Would be nice if each channel entry had a field for channel number instead, especially when they helpfully decide to move a channel! It's also the way real set-top boxes do it. I think scan can output the channel numbers to a vdr-readable channels.conf but I think that just puts in a :@1, :@2, :@3, etc. every other line. Just doesn't seem neat to me, especially as the channel numbers are broadcast. I did start looking at this a while back but never got very far: might have another go... I don't think it makes any sense to put actual channel numbers into each channel's line in channels.conf. For one, what if different providers want to use the same channel numbers? And: what if channels are moved around, inserted or deleted? The channel numbers are implicitly derived from the position of each channel in the channels.conf file. Offsets can be suggested with :@nnn lines, but are only hints and may be ignored if there are too many channels before them to actually implement the desired numbers. Klaus ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
On Monday 06 October 2008, Laz wrote: On another Freeview specific note, I'd love to have my channels renumbered to their proper Freeview numbers. At the moment, I have to go through and move them about by hand every time something changes! I don't think there is currently any support for assigning channels a specific number within vdr (probably not much point with gazillions of satellite channels but more useful with the handful of terrestrial Freeview ones in the UK). This is Logical Channel Number (LCN), another poorly-documented extension to the SI tables which is only used in the UK. I prefer my channels.conf in alphabetic order ;-) Dave ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 11:11 +0200, Klaus Schmidinger wrote: On 10/06/08 11:06, Laz wrote: On Monday 06 Oct 2008, Frank Scherthan wrote: Laz schrieb: On Sunday 05 Oct 2008, Gavin Hamill wrote: On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 15:10 +0100, Dave P wrote: On another Freeview specific note, I'd love to have my channels renumbered to their proper Freeview numbers. At the moment, I have to go through and move them about by hand every time something changes! I don't think there is currently any support for assigning channels a specific number within vdr (probably not much point with gazillions of satellite channels but more useful with the handful of terrestrial Freeview ones in the UK). man 5 vdr: A group delimiter can also be used to just set the next channel’s number, without an explicit delimiter text, as in :@201 That's what I mean by doing it by hand! My channels.conf is littered with those! ;) Would be nice if each channel entry had a field for channel number instead, especially when they helpfully decide to move a channel! It's also the way real set-top boxes do it. I think scan can output the channel numbers to a vdr-readable channels.conf but I think that just puts in a :@1, :@2, :@3, etc. every other line. Just doesn't seem neat to me, especially as the channel numbers are broadcast. I did start looking at this a while back but never got very far: might have another go... I don't think it makes any sense to put actual channel numbers into each channel's line in channels.conf. For one, what if different providers want to use the same channel numbers? And: what if channels are moved around, inserted or deleted? It might not make sense in your environment. In the UK and here in Australia there are fixed, advertised channel numbers. It makes sense if something is advertised as being on channel 20, then pressing '2' and then '0' should tune to that channel. Makes sense means that I can describe it to my wife. The channel numbers are implicitly derived from the position of each channel in the channels.conf file. Offsets can be suggested with :@nnn lines, but are only hints and may be ignored if there are too many channels before them to actually implement the desired numbers. Maybe I should try to explain this to my wife instead? Klaus ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
[vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
A few months ago I posted a VDR patch to implement support for Freeview+, the cut-down version of TV-Anytime (ETSI TS 102 323) broadcast in the UK. I've prepared a new version against VDR 1.6.0-2, and included a simple Perl script which automatically creates timers for all of the programmes in a series. Run it overnight as a cron job and never miss your favourite series again! The patch is at http://www.pickles.me.uk/vdrtva-0.0.3.tar.gz -- Dave ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 15:10 +0100, Dave P wrote: A few months ago I posted a VDR patch to implement support for Freeview+, the cut-down version of TV-Anytime (ETSI TS 102 323) broadcast in the UK. I've prepared a new version against VDR 1.6.0-2, and included a simple Perl script which automatically creates timers for all of the programmes in a series. Run it overnight as a cron job and never miss your favourite series again! The patch is at http://www.pickles.me.uk/vdrtva-0.0.3.tar.gz Interesting stuff :) I don't suppose it's possible to implement this as a plugin rather than a patch to VDR's core? Is there not enough core exposed via the plugin API? I can't see the patch going into VDR core any time because it's focused squarely at UK users only and Klaus would never have a use for it (unlike the Premiere-specific multi-angle support) so I'm worried that a lot of users will be missing out, especially if they use a packaged VDR. Cheers, Gavin. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Freeview+ aka TV-Anytime Patch (updated)
On Sunday 05 October 2008, Gavin Hamill wrote: Interesting stuff :) I don't suppose it's possible to implement this as a plugin rather than a patch to VDR's core? Is there not enough core exposed via the plugin API? I can't see the patch going into VDR core any time because it's focused squarely at UK users only and Klaus would never have a use for it (unlike the Premiere-specific multi-angle support) so I'm worried that a lot of users will be missing out, especially if they use a packaged VDR. I started writing it as a plugin but quickly ran into problems. The patch has to intercept the TVAnytime descriptors out of the EIT. That is certainly possible from a plugin, but would involve duplicating a lot of core code, and I wonder what the performance impact would be on a slow machine. In any event the libsi code would need changing to recognise the new descriptors (though maybe Klaus might accept that). The code then needs to store the CRIDs and Default Authority values, and the existing channels.conf and epg.data files are the obvious places to put them - there is AFAIK no hook to change these files or the data structures behind them. That also allows the SVDRP interface to be used to build high-level applications. Dave ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
