RE: [VFB] fishing today
Jim, She kind of beat you in size here on the White. We still having high water. Looks like 4 years in a row with high water. Tony --- On Tue, 5/18/10, Jim Forshey j...@seahorses.com wrote: From: Jim Forshey j...@seahorses.com Subject: RE: [VFB] fishing today To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 10:30 PM Ok, my daughter out did me again, we when fishing in the delta and my daughter (age 13) caught more and larger stripers than me, but sorry to say they were all under the 18” limit. Jim Placerville, California From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Zieger Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 4:36 PM To: VFB; flytyingandfishing; HIll country Subject: [VFB] fishing today Hit the right pond today. Came home with 50 gills,from 7 to 9 inches long and 25 crappie, 9 to 11 inches. Most of them on a furl tailed mohair leech. Rick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
RE: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY?
Compressed natural gas. Compressing the gas changes it to a liquid form. Which is cheaper to transport store. -Original Message- From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Allan Fish Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:07 PM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? What does the C in CNG stand for I looked it up and in Bama it's only available in Birmingham, but is only $1.37 per gallon, vs $282.9 per gallon of regular gas. BIG difference. I had an Uncle who converted his truck to run on propane. he got better mileage and he pulled the spark plugs after 50 THOUSAND miles and they looked to be in brand new condition. Chuck Apparently it's CLEAN Natural Gas (as opposed to dirty) I don't really understand it either. a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
RE: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY?
Nevermind... -Original Message- From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Ordes Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:21 PM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? Chuck, C = Compressed, as opposed to liquified. Propane is liquified (by refrigeraton) for containers (my job), and thus needs no compression, and it's vapor pressure is within safe limits, depending on it purity, avg. (about 188# pure) but with different amounts of ethane and methane the pressure can be up in the 200's. Compressed Natural Gas (CNG- mainly methane gas, plus ethane and others) is still in the vapor state, but the pressure is up to 3600 psi (less tha 1% of it's atmospheric volume) in order to concentrate enough fuel into a cylinder to carry it around. (Pure methane's vapor pressure is 5000# at 100deg. F.) CNG's energy per the volume of the container is less than half of a liquified natural gas, such as propane (the liquid propane is obviously much more dense and has a higher BTU rating). Use your BBQ pit for an example. Propane makes the hottest flames due to higher BTU value. Changer over to home natural gas and you need bigger jets to get the same heat- less BTU in natural gas. Methane gas is the lightest (C1H4) and has the least btu value, so much more of it must be used to have the same BTU. For tow vehicles, the higher the btu rating the more energy is there for work and thus more polution. The highest HP ratio fuel is diesel, then gasoline, then butane (rarely used as fuel), then propane, then natural gas, then methane gas. So try to tow your gooseneck burning methane gas (fart gas) and you're not going to get there very fast. Offhand, I don't know of any local stores selling CNG. I'll have to check the web. I don't know how comfortable I'd be carrying that bomb around with me- propane is bad enough. Looking for references of equivalent octane ratings for propane, ethane, and methane fuels. (Octane rating is not energy rating but anti-detonation rating.)(Also not the same as the octane molecule C8H18.) Don - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander chuckalexan...@hughes.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:19 PM Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? What does the C in CNG stand for I looked it up and in Bama it's only available in Birmingham, but is only $1.37 per gallon, vs $282.9 per gallon of regular gas. BIG difference. I had an Uncle who converted his truck to run on propane. he got better mileage and he pulled the spark plugs after 50 THOUSAND miles and they looked to be in brand new condition. Chuck - Original Message - From: Allan Fish afi...@sbcglobal.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:24 PM Subject: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? Tom said, bought a truck that uses CNG so not only can I go fishing green, but I can go cheap! (currently $.93 cents a gallon) Interesting to look at the prices of CNG across the country. ALL of the Utah stations are 93｢/gallon. All of the Indiana stations are $1.73 (and few and far between). California stations ranged from $1.09 San Jose Unified School District - a flet operation) to $4.25 per gallon (Napa - Redwood Chevron). Source: http://www.cngprices.com/ a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2882 - Release Date: 05/18/10 13:26:00 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group,
RE: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY?
I think what was meant by clean is natural gas burns much cleaner than gasoline. It's also cleaner in that no refining process is involved that could pollute the atmosphere. Perhaps a better way of looking at it is that Natural gas is mined in the US and thus we are not dependant on foreign oil. I suspect more things in this country will be converted to natural gas in the near future. As an example, I have a weed whacker that runs on propane, it said to produce 30% less emissions than a 2 stroke, gasoline powered weed whacker. I'm in the process of converting my push mower to run on propane, just have to find the right size propane cylinder to make it feasible. A twenty pound propane cylinder is to heavy but the small 14 ounce cylinders can't flow enough to power it and/or power it for very long. Wayne --- On Wed, 5/19/10, J Balmer jbal...@a5.com wrote: From: J Balmer jbal...@a5.com Subject: RE: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 19, 2010, 9:09 AM Compressed natural gas. Compressing the gas changes it to a liquid form. Which is cheaper to transport store. -Original Message- From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Allan Fish Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:07 PM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? What does the C in CNG stand for I looked it up and in Bama it's only available in Birmingham, but is only $1.37 per gallon, vs $282.9 per gallon of regular gas. BIG difference. I had an Uncle who converted his truck to run on propane. he got better mileage and he pulled the spark plugs after 50 THOUSAND miles and they looked to be in brand new condition. Chuck Apparently it's CLEAN Natural Gas (as opposed to dirty) I don't really understand it either. a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY?
Tom: How are you feeling? I'm ready to fish. I sent you a note a week ago about making a reel seat insert for a rod I intend to re-finish. I have a lot of walnut, and would donate some to your supply if you want. Talk to me about fishing, too. I have not been. Tom Davenport t...@comcast.net 5/18/2010 5:52 PM I'm lurking. I will be retiring in three weeks, and then you might hear too much of me! Lately I have been chasing after strange fish... Bass, Wall Eye and Wipers, using even stranger equipment: flimsy mono line (that it hard to strip), cheap reels, and lots of plastic things and balsa things with scary hooks. Mainly because that is what my son likes to use, and I'll do anything to have him go fishing with me. Its also easier for two people on a boat. But when I go out alone, or fish for trout (who are old, familiar friends) I still take my fly rod with me. I haven't fallen too far from the true religion. With summer coming on I will be looking for fishing buddies on weekdays when my son is working. Are you ready, Larry? Or anyone else in my neck of the woods? I bought a truck that uses CNG so not only can I go fishing green, but I can go cheap! (currently $.93 cents a gallon) Tom Davenport On May 17, 2010, at 12:58 PM, Jimmy D. Moore wrote: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY?
Oops. I should've read through all my e-mails. Sorry for the duplication. LJ Tom Davenport t...@comcast.net 5/18/2010 5:52 PM I'm lurking. I will be retiring in three weeks, and then you might hear too much of me! Lately I have been chasing after strange fish... Bass, Wall Eye and Wipers, using even stranger equipment: flimsy mono line (that it hard to strip), cheap reels, and lots of plastic things and balsa things with scary hooks. Mainly because that is what my son likes to use, and I'll do anything to have him go fishing with me. Its also easier for two people on a boat. But when I go out alone, or fish for trout (who are old, familiar friends) I still take my fly rod with me. I haven't fallen too far from the true religion. With summer coming on I will be looking for fishing buddies on weekdays when my son is working. Are you ready, Larry? Or anyone else in my neck of the woods? I bought a truck that uses CNG so not only can I go fishing green, but I can go cheap! (currently $.93 cents a gallon) Tom Davenport On May 17, 2010, at 12:58 PM, Jimmy D. Moore wrote: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] I have a few old Fiberglass/Graphic rods I would like to clean up and I wondered what most people use to clean them up (or how they clean them up)?
Jim, try a plastic scrunchy pad with warm water, if the graphics are decals be careful you don't scratch them off. in that case a soft cloth with soft scrub might work better. --- On Tue, 5/18/10, Jim Forshey j...@seahorses.com wrote: From: Jim Forshey j...@seahorses.com Subject: [VFB] I have a few old Fiberglass/Graphic rods I would like to clean up and I wondered what most people use to clean them up (or how they clean them up)? To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 11:30 PM I have a few old Fiberglass/Graphic rods I would like to clean up and I wondered what most people use to clean them up (or how they clean them up)? Do you wash them with soap and water then put some type of wax on them? I have different people (new to fishing) using them all the time and would like them to look half decent. Thank you for the suggestions. Jim Forshey Placerville, California -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
RE: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY?
I think what was meant by clean is natural gas burns much cleaner than gasoline. It's also cleaner in that no refining process is invol Thanks, Wayne. A. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
[VFB] QUOTE FOR THE DAY
Even eminent chartered accountants are known, in their capacity as fishermen, blissfully to ignore differences between seven and ten inches, half a pound and two pounds, three fish and a dozen fish. William Sherwood Fox, Silken Lines and Silver Hooks, 1954 º * JIMMY D. MOORE, ARS WB5RHT,author Moon Holler Misfits Fishing Hunting Club, Member, TOWA, Past VP Guadalupe River Trout Unlimited, North Zone Fishing Editor Emeritus, Texas Fish Game Magazine, VFB FFW Moderator, Scout Exec. BSA, Retired, http://bigtroutman.tripod.com/index.html * º *** -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
RE: [VFB] QUOTE FOR THE DAY
I believe the term is “fudge.” From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy D. Moore Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:59 AM To: Virtual Fly Box; Fly Fishing World; Hill Country Fly Fishers Subject: [VFB] QUOTE FOR THE DAY Even eminent chartered accountants are known, in their capacity as fishermen, blissfully to ignore differences between seven and ten inches, half a pound and two pounds, three fish and a dozen fish. William Sherwood Fox, Silken Lines and Silver Hooks, 1954 º * JIMMY D. MOORE, ARS WB5RHT,author Moon Holler Misfits Fishing Hunting Club, Member, TOWA, Past VP Guadalupe River Trout Unlimited, North Zone Fishing Editor Emeritus, Texas Fish Game Magazine, VFB FFW Moderator, Scout Exec. BSA, Retired, http://bigtroutman.tripod.com/index.html * º *** -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
[VFB] Re: CNG - knowledge is power- even for flyfishers
Wayne, et al, Natural gas processing is the industry that I've spent the last 34 years in, and there's more to it than meets the eye. I teach gas plant operators a course on the fundamentals of gas processing and it's a 2 or 3 day condensed course. Natural gas is much cleaner to burn than gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, kerosene, gas/oil mixtures for two-strokes, coal, and wood. Personally, I would love it if the country would ( could) switch over to natural gas, like 100%., and sell gasoline and oil to other countries. Natural gas will come to you from 4 basic sources: 1.. Residue gas from oil refineries 2.. Sales gas from gas processing plants 3.. Sales gas from coal-bed methane gas conditioning plants 4.. Alternative sources- like bio-fuels. All natural gas that you burn has had some form of processing, treating, or conditioning done to it. It has to be 'mined' (drilling operations just like oil), gathered, metered, dehydrated, compressed, re-metered, and pipelined at a minimum. If it is associated natural gas, it may have CO2 and H2S that have to be removed also. Coalben Methane gas (CBM) is gas from coal seams. This operation produces millions of gallons of 'produced water' that has to be disposed, plus it takes much compression to collect and treat the gas, treating being dehydration, and then pipelines to move it to where it has to go. Most CBM gas is sold (after conditioning) to utility companies who already have a pipeline close by and they will blend it with other gas. Natural gas is cleaner to burn, but takes more land and operations to drill natural gas wells and coalbed methane wells, and gather it to get the same amount of deliverable btu's to buyers. Natural gas doesn't pollute like gasoline, but the operations to get NG to you can and do (in the wrong hands) cause a lot of damage to the environment. The well-head areas are much cleaner and neater than oil well-heads, since oil is not being handled and trucked out. Wayne, if you are converting a gasoline driven device to propane or CNG, the carb. needs to be replaced by a regulator, just like your bbq pit. 'Flow' is a factor, then of demand, not reserve, like turning up the flames. Your 'reserve', the bottle, needs to be sized to last long enough to do the job and not be inconvenient, just like the propane cylinder on a trailer or bbq pit. Propane evaporates to feed the regulator, CNG doesn't have to. At 44deg. below zero F., peopane will not evaporate, so the tank must be heated. Not so with CNG, and it would take a temp of -258F or so to liquify it. Your consideration is the 50% factor. A 1-gal. (vol.) tank of liquid propane will give you twice the hp (btu) of a 1 gal tank (vol.) of CNG. So it may be more economocal, bases on prices, to run your mower on propane rather than methane (CNG). One equivalent cost in getting both propane and CNG to you is compression. Propane is liquified by a refrigeration process requiring compression (hp). CNG is obviously 'condensed' (not liquified) into a container using compression (just like the bottle on your air compressor). Compression takes hp and that takes fuel. And compressors are expensive to buy, install, and maintain. I've never used CNG, but the high pressure, 2900-3600 psi, is not something I would want in an container in an area where thing may be flying around. Costs for propane and CNG will settle out based on our free market system. Propane prices are tied to oil, and follow oil pricing. CNG is not oil-based, so will follow different curves, depending on how many hands are in the pot. DonO - Original Message - From: Wayne Blake-Hedges To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: RE: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? I think what was meant by clean is natural gas burns much cleaner than gasoline. It's also cleaner in that no refining process is involved that could pollute the atmosphere. Perhaps a better way of looking at it is that Natural gas is mined in the US and thus we are not dependant on foreign oil. I suspect more things in this country will be converted to natural gas in the near future. As an example, I have a weed whacker that runs on propane, it said to produce 30% less emissions than a 2 stroke, gasoline powered weed whacker. I'm in the process of converting my push mower to run on propane, just have to find the right size propane cylinder to make it feasible. A twenty pound propane cylinder is to heavy but the small 14 ounce cylinders can't flow enough to power it and/or power it for very long. Wayne --- On Wed, 5/19/10, J Balmer jbal...@a5.com wrote: From: J Balmer jbal...@a5.com Subject: RE: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 19, 2010, 9:09 AM Compressed natural gas. Compressing
[VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM)
And now for the fishing content:- I and many other residents of Britsh Columbia (BC) are vehemently opposed to coalbed methane extraction. The Government and Industry are only interested in the almighty $ and will gladly destroy a pristine part of BC in the process. This tends to happen around some of the best fly fishing rivers in the province. CBM poses a risk to: - * Water sources contaminated by chemicals used during the extraction process, and by the unanticipated underground migration of methane. * Farmers' fields rendered useless by huge volumes of polluting water, produced during the extraction process. * Rural landscapes transformed into networks of roads, pipelines, flaring gas wells and compressor stations whose ceaseless hum has been compared to that of a large tractor. * Plummeting values of adjacent real estate. * Conservative, multi-generation farmers turned activists after the promise of land rental fees is overshadowed by ballooning industrial development rolling unchecked over private land. The Elk River near Fernie, BC and the Morice/Bulkley River near Telkwa. Please refer to the following URLs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz19W7e1eGs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uZ8CFgRR5U http://thetyee.ca/News/2006/11/14/CBM/ Sorry DonO but CBM is not wanted here. Neville (Nev) Gosling Greater Vancouver, B.C. Canada -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice...
Neville, I understand totally. This is not a political debate, but a reality we all face and have caused by living in a technological age. As long as we operate vehicles and heat our homes (and AC them), we are going to need sources of power. This is what it's all about. No one, including me, wants to see the the sacrifice of our land and liviability surrendered to the unscruplous and loosely handled operations of the greedy energy conglomerates and Wall St. We all want it, but 'over there, not here'. That's what's driving the whole industry to look for alternte fuels and sources of power. So now in Wyoming we have huge windmill farms that are just as bad as CBM (or logging was) for desecrating the landscapes and horizons. They have to have roads, maintenance crews, distribution lines, etc., and all this messes with the enviornment. No one wants dams anymore, so tear them down. Coal companies fund those efforts. No one wants oil or natural gas operations, especially near them. Obvious reasons, as Neville stated. No one wants the pollution of coal-fired power plants, although with proper scrubbing, they're much better than they used to be. (But electric cars will be needed to make use of the transportation capabilities.) Solar power is an option for generating electricity, but decades from meaningful contributions (like windmills). Geothermal is being done, but too few places, and most of them parks. Volcanoes are a good source of power, but are problemmatical and usually require human sacrifice. (lol) Here they want to take the windmills down in lieu of scenery and the environment. Bio-fuels are expensive to produce, like ethanol, and this has come under fire for corruption and inefficiency. Some local waste-gas systems are efficient, but don't affect the big problems, not yet anyway. Hydrogen may be a way, but it is very problemmatical. Offshore methane hydrate deposits may have more btu's locked up than all the other sources on earth combined, but it is very hard to reach and expensive to get to the surface. We don't even have the technology yet to get it, but some proposals are out there. I say slurry- we'll see. If we can harness lightning, that could be a source, but again, is decades from reality. Nuclear Energy is making a comeback (as GB would say- 'nucular'), but that has it's risks, too. Do you want to live downwind of one? Wood-burning in fireplaces is banned in cities all over the country because of smoke pollution. So, in the big picture, what's working against your favorite fishing and recreating areas? Demand and control. We demand and they control. 'We' are the users and 'they' are the providers (along with the 'parasites' of the providers). Everyone who has their hand in the fuel-till is a parasite of the provider, and the provider is a parasite of the land. Even if one is an energy investor, he has a responsibility for the harm done. So a portion of every dollar you spend on fuel is used to wreck your environment (or their's), and then line the pockets of rich people politicians, and then get you where you want to be, heat your home, and cook your burgers. I don't have to explain how powerful the oil companies are when it comes to detroit and mpg for cars. Wow, all of a sudden cars are getting 35+ mpg. Why didn't they do that 20/30 years ago? Shall I name all the players, your governments included? So we decided to make OPEC rich and then deal with the consequences later (shifting the burden to our children). But at least they not gathering energy on our favorite plot of land. I am very environmentally consious in my designs, and I teach the same thing to operators. And I believe that fines do no good with the beaucrats in bed with the energy companies. But every dollar we spend on fuel of any kind that is gathered and transported to us for convenience puts the responsibility on us for the problems we face. And 'do it there, not here' is not a solution. 'There' is always somebody else's 'here'. So unless we want to ride bicycles to our fishing holes, we're all responsible for the big ol nasty energy picture, and are at the mercy of those who have the means to provide mass consumption energy. In populated countries where there are no cars, the pollution comes from burning wood for heat and cooking- if there is any left to burn. There, charcoal makers are the industry of need, to cut down on city smoke, and they, in turn, cut down the forests, which pollutes the rivers, which takes away from their fishing for a living Anguish of nations, not knowing the way out. Don - Original Message - From: Neville Gosling To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:41 AM Subject: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM) And now for the fishing content:- I and many other residents of Britsh Columbia (BC) are vehemently opposed to coalbed methane extraction. The Government
[VFB] Magenta, Golden Badger American Hackle
Hi Don, all, I'm on the lookout for some magenta and golden badger hackle for winging a streamer. Whiting's American Hackle Necks look perfect, and at least they seem to come in the right colors (From W. site), but I cannot find 'em in shops. Are these colors available right now? Any idea where to get them? I found http://www.saltwaterflytyers.com who carry at least magenta as a saddle. But they charge 30 bucks just for shipping to me. Any substitute in case? I need it to ty a Carrie's Favorite. Magenta is the problem, If I cannot get my hands on a Golden Badger, i have a saddle from Denny, and I'll find some suitable feather on it, as a 'plan B'. Rene -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice...
Aw c'mon, Don. Why don't you really say what you think?;-) (Great summary. Thanks) a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] Magenta, Golden Badger American Hackle
Rene, I have a magenta wet-fly cape and maybe a saddle (Whiting). If you are just tying a streamer or two, I can send you some matched pairs and save you all the cost of finding a cape and be charged for a piece of 1st class mail. DonO - Original Message - From: Rene Zillmann rene.zillm...@t-online.de To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:15 PM Subject: [VFB] Magenta, Golden Badger American Hackle Hi Don, all, I'm on the lookout for some magenta and golden badger hackle for winging a streamer. Whiting's American Hackle Necks look perfect, and at least they seem to come in the right colors (From W. site), but I cannot find 'em in shops. Are these colors available right now? Any idea where to get them? I found http://www.saltwaterflytyers.com who carry at least magenta as a saddle. But they charge 30 bucks just for shipping to me. Any substitute in case? I need it to ty a Carrie's Favorite. Magenta is the problem, If I cannot get my hands on a Golden Badger, i have a saddle from Denny, and I'll find some suitable feather on it, as a 'plan B'. Rene -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] Magenta, Golden Badger American Hackle
I'd check out some Danish webshops (Go Fishing in Odense for instance, or Korsholm http://www.korsholm.dk/fiskeri.html) if I were you. They have a lot of feathers not easily found elsewhere, and shipping should be reasonable. Hurry though, before the euro drops even more! :-) Mart - Original Message - From: Rene Zillmann rene.zillm...@t-online.de To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 8:15 PM Subject: [VFB] Magenta, Golden Badger American Hackle Hi Don, all, I'm on the lookout for some magenta and golden badger hackle for winging a streamer. Whiting's American Hackle Necks look perfect, and at least they seem to come in the right colors (From W. site), but I cannot find 'em in shops. Are these colors available right now? Any idea where to get them? I found http://www.saltwaterflytyers.com who carry at least magenta as a saddle. But they charge 30 bucks just for shipping to me. Any substitute in case? I need it to ty a Carrie's Favorite. Magenta is the problem, If I cannot get my hands on a Golden Badger, i have a saddle from Denny, and I'll find some suitable feather on it, as a 'plan B'. Rene -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
[VFB] We are the problem
DonO and others: You are absolutely correct. We are the problem. However, having said that, I have a big problem with career bureaucrats who have no real knowledge of the subject and who make bad decisions on behalf of the people. Proper in depth environmental assessments are minimized and in many cases do not even take place. The companies proposing a project, by and large, have a poor track record, especially in mitigation of the environmental damage that they cause. As President of the Totem Flyfishers, BC's oldest Fly Fishing Club, I am in the process of informing my club members about a proposal to Blow the top off Catface Mountain in Clayoquot Sound on Vancouver Island and to turn it into an open pit copper mine. This is or rather was a prime habitat for coho (Silver) Salmon. I am fighting against open net salmon farms because there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they and the sea lice that they attract are detrimental to juvenile out-migrating salmon that are too small to combat lice infections. Our wild salmon are disappearing. fast. We have Run-of-the-River private power projects, where rivers are dammed to produce power. A lot of these are actually American Owned. GE as an example. The projects have proceeded with no environmental assessments. As a result, I am rapidly becoming a very active environmentalist. Neville (Nev) Gosling Greater Vancouver, B.C. Canada Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice...
Don: Thanks for the quick and informative lesson. Someone will win, and someone will lose. Money is driving one side of the battle. Aesthetic and environmental concerns seem to drive the other. In any case, I can't imagine any solution that will satisfy all sides. Larry Johnson Springville, Utah Allan Fish afi...@sbcglobal.net 5/19/2010 12:25 PM Aw c'mon, Don. Why don't you really say what you think?;-) (Great summary. Thanks) a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Fw: [VFB] Re: CNG - knowledge is power- even for flyfishers
- Original Message - From: Don Ordes To: Wayne Blake-Hedges Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Re: CNG - knowledge is power- even for flyfishers Wayne, Your work situation is one of the small success-stories of alternate fuels, and there many, just not enough to touch the 'big picture'. Kudo's my man. Your fuel freezing problem is not due to reservoir size, but a phenominon called JT (after Joules Thompson). It's how the refrigeration process works (except your propane refrigerators in RVs). As you compress gas or air, heat is a byproduct generated. If you cool the compressed gas and then take the pressure off through a regulator or other valve, the heat will be lost again in reverse, but starting at a lower point. Therefore the gas goes to sub-zero, freezing any water or heavy hydrocarbons (hydrates). Fire extinguishers are an example- warm high-pressure CO2 exits the can and freezes everything. You can do the same with your propane cylinder, or the cylinder in an air-gun. If the line freezes off inside, the flow is pinched or stopped, no matter want the feed line size is or the reservoir size is. The water content in the CNG is going to be intensified as it is compressed, and I don't know what the water content specification is yet. You can see this as water dripping out of the compressed air coming off your air compressor, or draining out of the tank. As you use the high-pressure CNG to feed the fuel regulators, each pressure-drop becomes a freezing zone, and you'll see the lines ice up. Icing on the inside blocks flow (thus dehydration is necessary, or methanol injection) or on the outside as an ice covering from the cold temp within. It has nothing to do with the cannister size, but with immense pressure drop and feed rate. In our large fuel gas distribution systems, we first dry the compressed cooled gas, then take many pressure drops across different regulators to provide fuel to points of use. With big drops, the lines become balls of ice on the outside, becasue of the low gas temperatures inside due to JT. If we don't dry the gas properly, we freeze up just like you. 'My' idea would be to use the mower hot exhaust gas to heat the fuel right after the regulator with an exchanger, thus nullifying the freezing JT effect. DonO - Original Message - From: Wayne Blake-Hedges To: f...@tribcsp.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [VFB] Re: CNG - knowledge is power- even for flyfishers Hi Don; Thanks for the info, I new there was more to Naturals gas than just removing it from the ground but, it's defiently a cleaner operation than refineing crude oil. I've been in the biogas industry(Landfill gas) for 21 years and I'm a bit familiar with what's required to use it. Normally we partner with industry for uitilization projects but recently, I started up and subsequently inproved a gas conditioning system where I work we use the gas to operate infrarred shop heaters(4 million btu/hr) without removing the CO2. So essentially I'm working with low btu natural gas(500 btu/ft3). As far as I know, it's the only successfull project of it's kind. As far as the propane mower conversion, I started with a conversion kit from an existing engine(Honda) that includes a fuel spud for the carb and two stage regulator with a vacuum feedback to regulate flow. The problem I have is that 14ounce cylinders can't flow enough for the engine without freezing but a 20lb cylinder is too heavy. I need to find a 10lb cylinder. I've always wanted to convince people at work to start a CNG project. I'd convert everything I had to CNG, and then some. The problem is converting biogas to CNG is quite costly, especially on a small scale Wayne --- On Wed, 5/19/10, Don Ordes f...@tribcsp.com wrote: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] We are the problem
Neville, I don't blame you for getting active. They've (people like you) thwarted a mining operation in Canada just north of Glacier Park in Montana that would have ruined fishing in the Glacier Flathead rivers. Remember, 'environmental assessments' are driven by two sides, yours and theirs. They want bucks and you want honesty- and they don't agree or wash out. Can you say 'politics', or 'greed' ? As an activist, you've seen how many threats there are to your/our environments. And then there are the natural catastrophies- introduced species like the zebra-mussels and snake-heads. Seems one wins a battle here or there, and loses a dozen others. Same here in Wyoming. If it's not 'us' wrecking the waters, it's the Game Fish messing up their manipulations of it. DonO - Original Message - From: Neville Gosling To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:34 PM Subject: [VFB] We are the problem DonO and others: You are absolutely correct. We are the problem. However, having said that, I have a big problem with career bureaucrats who have no real knowledge of the subject and who make bad decisions on behalf of the people. Proper in depth environmental assessments are minimized and in many cases do not even take place. The companies proposing a project, by and large, have a poor track record, especially in mitigation of the environmental damage that they cause. As President of the Totem Flyfishers, BC's oldest Fly Fishing Club, I am in the process of informing my club members about a proposal to Blow the top off Catface Mountain in Clayoquot Sound on Vancouver Island and to turn it into an open pit copper mine. This is or rather was a prime habitat for coho (Silver) Salmon. I am fighting against open net salmon farms because there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they and the sea lice that they attract are detrimental to juvenile out-migrating salmon that are too small to combat lice infections. Our wild salmon are disappearing. fast. We have Run-of-the-River private power projects, where rivers are dammed to produce power. A lot of these are actually American Owned. GE as an example. The projects have proceeded with no environmental assessments. As a result, I am rapidly becoming a very active environmentalist. Neville (Nev) Gosling Greater Vancouver, B.C. Canada Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: Fw: [VFB] Re: CNG - knowledge is power- even for flyfishers
Hi Don; In my opion, a success story is a success story, every little bit helps. That is how I envision solar power in this country, small systems on houses and buildings supplementing major power sources. A whole lot of little bits will then add up to something substantial. I don't envision solar power as being a major central power source any time in the near future, it's just too costly at this time. I look at biofuels such as landfill gas the same way, we have generated 6 megawatts of electricty at one of our sites since 1993, not a lot but that much less that would be generated possibly by a coal fired plant. We have also incinerated the county's waste since 1995 and generate 72 to 80 megawatts from that. Not a lot when you look at the big picture but if every large municipality were doing that, our energy demands from coal/gas/oil/nuclear would be reduced. Face it biofuels typically are flared at landfills so every btu that's utiliyzed is beneficial. I don't think this country's or the world for that matter energy problems will be solve with one fell swoop, more like a little at a time. My propane mower problem was freezing in the 14 ounce cylinder, I attribituted the freezing to to high a flow from too little a cylinder. I've tried to find out the moisture content of propane and natural gas but that's difficult information to find. I do know that the dryer I get my landfill gas, the more reliable my utiliyzations become. I typically keep the dew point in my gas sytem below 10 degrees F, lower if I can get it. I've found that most of the contaminants in landfill gas such as silioxanes are contained in the liquids. The dryer the gas the less contaminates that cause combustion issues remain. Fun talking shop! Wayne --- On Wed, 5/19/10, Don Ordes f...@tribcsp.com wrote: From: Don Ordes f...@tribcsp.com Subject: Fw: [VFB] Re: CNG - knowledge is power- even for flyfishers To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 19, 2010, 2:36 PM - Original Message - From: Don Ordes To: Wayne Blake-Hedges Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Re: CNG - knowledge is power- even for flyfishers Wayne, Your work situation is one of the small success-stories of alternate fuels, and there many, just not enough to touch the 'big picture'. Kudo's my man. Your fuel freezing problem is not due to reservoir size, but a phenominon called JT (after Joules Thompson). It's how the refrigeration process works (except your propane refrigerators in RVs). As you compress gas or air, heat is a byproduct generated. If you cool the compressed gas and then take the pressure off through a regulator or other valve, the heat will be lost again in reverse, but starting at a lower point. Therefore the gas goes to sub-zero, freezing any water or heavy hydrocarbons (hydrates). Fire extinguishers are an example- warm high-pressure CO2 exits the can and freezes everything. You can do the same with your propane cylinder, or the cylinder in an air-gun. If the line freezes off inside, the flow is pinched or stopped, no matter want the feed line size is or the reservoir size is. The water content in the CNG is going to be intensified as it is compressed, and I don't know what the water content specification is yet. You can see this as water dripping out of the compressed air coming off your air compressor, or draining out of the tank. As you use the high-pressure CNG to feed the fuel regulators, each pressure-drop becomes a freezing zone, and you'll see the lines ice up. Icing on the inside blocks flow (thus dehydration is necessary, or methanol injection) or on the outside as an ice covering from the cold temp within. It has nothing to do with the cannister size, but with immense pressure drop and feed rate. In our large fuel gas distribution systems, we first dry the compressed cooled gas, then take many pressure drops across different regulators to provide fuel to points of use. With big drops, the lines become balls of ice on the outside, becasue of the low gas temperatures inside due to JT. If we don't dry the gas properly, we freeze up just like you. 'My' idea would be to use the mower hot exhaust gas to heat the fuel right after the regulator with an exchanger, thus nullifying the freezing JT effect. DonO - Original Message - From: Wayne Blake-Hedges To: f...@tribcsp.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [VFB] Re: CNG - knowledge is power- even for flyfishers Hi Don; Thanks for the info, I new there was more to Naturals gas than just removing it from the ground but, it's defiently a cleaner operation than refineing crude oil. I've been in the biogas industry(Landfill gas) for 21 years and I'm a bit familiar with what's required to use it. Normally we partner with industry for uitilization projects but recently, I started up and subsequently inproved a gas
Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY?
Wayne: I see. I know that we recently completed the world's largest drilling operation for natural gas in the world up in Alaska (in the last few years it was anyway), so I think you're right, it will be used more in the future as a fuel than in the past, Chuck - Original Message - From: Wayne Blake-Hedges To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:18 AM Subject: RE: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? I think what was meant by clean is natural gas burns much cleaner than gasoline. It's also cleaner in that no refining process is involved that could pollute the atmosphere. Perhaps a better way of looking at it is that Natural gas is mined in the US and thus we are not dependant on foreign oil. I suspect more things in this country will be converted to natural gas in the near future. As an example, I have a weed whacker that runs on propane, it said to produce 30% less emissions than a 2 stroke, gasoline powered weed whacker. I'm in the process of converting my push mower to run on propane, just have to find the right size propane cylinder to make it feasible. A twenty pound propane cylinder is to heavy but the small 14 ounce cylinders can't flow enough to power it and/or power it for very long. Wayne --- On Wed, 5/19/10, J Balmer jbal...@a5.com wrote: From: J Balmer jbal...@a5.com Subject: RE: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 19, 2010, 9:09 AM Compressed natural gas. Compressing the gas changes it to a liquid form. Which is cheaper to transport store. -Original Message- From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Allan Fish Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:07 PM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? What does the C in CNG stand for I looked it up and in Bama it's only available in Birmingham, but is only $1.37 per gallon, vs $282.9 per gallon of regular gas. BIG difference. I had an Uncle who converted his truck to run on propane. he got better mileage and he pulled the spark plugs after 50 THOUSAND miles and they looked to be in brand new condition. Chuck Apparently it's CLEAN Natural Gas (as opposed to dirty) I don't really understand it either. a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2882 - Release Date: 05/18/10 13:26:00 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY?
I see. Thanks, Chuck - Original Message - From: J Balmer jbal...@a5.com To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 8:09 AM Subject: RE: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? Compressed natural gas. Compressing the gas changes it to a liquid form. Which is cheaper to transport store. -Original Message- From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Allan Fish Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:07 PM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? What does the C in CNG stand for I looked it up and in Bama it's only available in Birmingham, but is only $1.37 per gallon, vs $282.9 per gallon of regular gas. BIG difference. I had an Uncle who converted his truck to run on propane. he got better mileage and he pulled the spark plugs after 50 THOUSAND miles and they looked to be in brand new condition. Chuck Apparently it's CLEAN Natural Gas (as opposed to dirty) I don't really understand it either. a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2882 - Release Date: 05/18/10 13:26:00 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY?
Don: I see. I must be getting more forgetful in my old age than I thought. I JUST recently saw a program about all this on either the Discovery channel or the History channel one. I wouldn't like the idea of driving around with ANYTHING under than much pressure in the tank either, Chuck - Original Message - From: Don Ordes f...@tribcsp.com To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:20 PM Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? Chuck, C = Compressed, as opposed to liquified. Propane is liquified (by refrigeraton) for containers (my job), and thus needs no compression, and it's vapor pressure is within safe limits, depending on it purity, avg. (about 188# pure) but with different amounts of ethane and methane the pressure can be up in the 200's. Compressed Natural Gas (CNG- mainly methane gas, plus ethane and others) is still in the vapor state, but the pressure is up to 3600 psi (less tha 1% of it's atmospheric volume) in order to concentrate enough fuel into a cylinder to carry it around. (Pure methane's vapor pressure is 5000# at 100deg. F.) CNG's energy per the volume of the container is less than half of a liquified natural gas, such as propane (the liquid propane is obviously much more dense and has a higher BTU rating). Use your BBQ pit for an example. Propane makes the hottest flames due to higher BTU value. Changer over to home natural gas and you need bigger jets to get the same heat- less BTU in natural gas. Methane gas is the lightest (C1H4) and has the least btu value, so much more of it must be used to have the same BTU. For tow vehicles, the higher the btu rating the more energy is there for work and thus more polution. The highest HP ratio fuel is diesel, then gasoline, then butane (rarely used as fuel), then propane, then natural gas, then methane gas. So try to tow your gooseneck burning methane gas (fart gas) and you're not going to get there very fast. Offhand, I don't know of any local stores selling CNG. I'll have to check the web. I don't know how comfortable I'd be carrying that bomb around with me- propane is bad enough. Looking for references of equivalent octane ratings for propane, ethane, and methane fuels. (Octane rating is not energy rating but anti-detonation rating.)(Also not the same as the octane molecule C8H18.) Don - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander chuckalexan...@hughes.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:19 PM Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? What does the C in CNG stand for I looked it up and in Bama it's only available in Birmingham, but is only $1.37 per gallon, vs $282.9 per gallon of regular gas. BIG difference. I had an Uncle who converted his truck to run on propane. he got better mileage and he pulled the spark plugs after 50 THOUSAND miles and they looked to be in brand new condition. Chuck - Original Message - From: Allan Fish afi...@sbcglobal.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:24 PM Subject: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? Tom said, bought a truck that uses CNG so not only can I go fishing green, but I can go cheap! (currently $.93 cents a gallon) Interesting to look at the prices of CNG across the country. ALL of the Utah stations are 93｢/gallon. All of the Indiana stations are $1.73 (and few and far between). California stations ranged from $1.09 San Jose Unified School District - a flet operation) to $4.25 per gallon (Napa - Redwood Chevron). Source: http://www.cngprices.com/ a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2882 - Release Date: 05/18/10 13:26:00 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc
Re: [VFB] fishing today
Yes and I am never going to hear the end of that one. (She caught a larger trout than I did.) But at least this way I get to go fishing more often :) Jim -Original Message- From: Anthony Spezio [mailto:bambot...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 08:45 AM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [VFB] fishing today Jim, She kind of beat you in size here on the White. We still having high water. Looks like 4 years in a row with high water. Tony --- On Tue, 5/18/10, Jim Forshey j...@seahorses.com wrote: From: Jim Forshey j...@seahorses.com Subject: RE: [VFB] fishing today To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 10:30 PM Ok, my daughter out did me again, we when fishing in the delta and my daughter (age 13) caught more and larger stripers than me, but sorry to say they were all under the 18” limit. Jim Placerville, California From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Zieger Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 4:36 PM To: VFB; flytyingandfishing; HIll country Subject: [VFB] fishing today Hit the right pond today. Came home with 50 gills,from 7 to 9 inches long and 25 crappie, 9 to 11 inches. Most of them on a furl tailed mohair leech. Rick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY?
Don: He just said it was cheaper to run, so I assumed (that bad word LOL) that's what he meant. He does own a concrete pumping company out of Douglassville GA (or did at the time) so all his trucks ran off propane, so that is probably what he meant, Chuck Maybe you can answer this.. I know it's off topic, but it IS on topic to us, cause the more money we make, the more often we can go fishing. My wife has cooked and sold boiled peanuts for 25 years now. And when we carry our 20 pound propane bottles to the propane place to get them filled, they fill them all the way full. When we just exchange then at the racks you find around town now, they are only filled to 80%. The propane guy told us he though it was some federal law about having the bottles too full.. I know we get 20% or less cook time per bottle off the rack and that is right into our slim profit margin.. - Original Message - From: Don Ordes f...@tribcsp.com To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:24 PM Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? Chuck, I believe the part about cleaner plugs (less carbon), but propane has nowhere the energy of gasoline, so I don't see how he could have gotten better mpg. If propane was cheaper by a lot, he may have gotten better miles per dollar, but not miles per gallon. DonO - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander chuckalexan...@hughes.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:19 PM Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? What does the C in CNG stand for I looked it up and in Bama it's only available in Birmingham, but is only $1.37 per gallon, vs $282.9 per gallon of regular gas. BIG difference. I had an Uncle who converted his truck to run on propane. he got better mileage and he pulled the spark plugs after 50 THOUSAND miles and they looked to be in brand new condition. Chuck - Original Message - From: Allan Fish afi...@sbcglobal.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:24 PM Subject: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? Tom said, bought a truck that uses CNG so not only can I go fishing green, but I can go cheap! (currently $.93 cents a gallon) Interesting to look at the prices of CNG across the country. ALL of the Utah stations are 93｢/gallon. All of the Indiana stations are $1.73 (and few and far between). California stations ranged from $1.09 San Jose Unified School District - a flet operation) to $4.25 per gallon (Napa - Redwood Chevron). Source: http://www.cngprices.com/ a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2882 - Release Date: 05/18/10 13:26:00 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2882 - Release Date: 05/18/10 13:26:00 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] fishing today
Yeah but now she'll want to go fishing with you because she always out fishes dad! Wayne --- On Wed, 5/19/10, j...@seahorses.com j...@seahorses.com wrote: From: j...@seahorses.com j...@seahorses.com Subject: Re: [VFB] fishing today To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 19, 2010, 3:43 PM Yes and I am never going to hear the end of that one. (She caught a larger trout than I did.) But at least this way I get to go fishing more often :) Jim -Original Message- From: Anthony Spezio [mailto:bambot...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 08:45 AM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [VFB] fishing today Jim, She kind of beat you in size here on the White. We still having high water. Looks like 4 years in a row with high water. Tony --- On Tue, 5/18/10, Jim Forshey j...@seahorses.com wrote: From: Jim Forshey j...@seahorses.com Subject: RE: [VFB] fishing today To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 10:30 PM Ok, my daughter out did me again, we when fishing in the delta and my daughter (age 13) caught more and larger stripers than me, but sorry to say they were all under the 18” limit. Jim Placerville, California From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Zieger Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 4:36 PM To: VFB; flytyingandfishing; HIll country Subject: [VFB] fishing today Hit the right pond today. Came home with 50 gills,from 7 to 9 inches long and 25 crappie, 9 to 11 inches. Most of them on a furl tailed mohair leech. Rick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] Magenta, Golden Badger American Hackle
Mart, good idea, found a saddle at korsholm, but there is so much text in danish. I sent 'em an email and asked for shipment etc. Let's see how it turns out. Don: Thanks for your kind offer. I'll ty indeed only 1 fly for sort of competition, but wanted to do some more for fishing. If I can get the saddle from Denmark, I'm fine. Otherwise I will come back to your kind offer, and will ty the practice flies with orange... Rene Martin Westbeek wrote: I'd check out some Danish webshops (Go Fishing in Odense for instance, or Korsholm http://www.korsholm.dk/fiskeri.html) if I were you. They have a lot of feathers not easily found elsewhere, and shipping should be reasonable. Hurry though, before the euro drops even more! :-) Mart - Original Message - From: Rene Zillmann rene.zillm...@t-online.de To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 8:15 PM Subject: [VFB] Magenta, Golden Badger American Hackle Hi Don, all, I'm on the lookout for some magenta and golden badger hackle for winging a streamer. Whiting's American Hackle Necks look perfect, and at least they seem to come in the right colors (From W. site), but I cannot find 'em in shops. Are these colors available right now? Any idea where to get them? I found http://www.saltwaterflytyers.com who carry at least magenta as a saddle. But they charge 30 bucks just for shipping to me. Any substitute in case? I need it to ty a Carrie's Favorite. Magenta is the problem, If I cannot get my hands on a Golden Badger, i have a saddle from Denny, and I'll find some suitable feather on it, as a 'plan B'. Rene -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY?
Hi Chuck; I'm guessing it's a safety thing, those propane exchange racks could sit in the sun and heat up the bottles raising the pressure. Lower fill volumes would act as a safety. Either that or those places do it to make higher profits and label it a safety issue. Wayne --- On Wed, 5/19/10, Chuck Alexander chuckalexan...@hughes.net wrote: From: Chuck Alexander chuckalexan...@hughes.net Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 19, 2010, 3:41 PM Don: He just said it was cheaper to run, so I assumed (that bad word LOL) that's what he meant. He does own a concrete pumping company out of Douglassville GA (or did at the time) so all his trucks ran off propane, so that is probably what he meant, Chuck Maybe you can answer this.. I know it's off topic, but it IS on topic to us, cause the more money we make, the more often we can go fishing. My wife has cooked and sold boiled peanuts for 25 years now. And when we carry our 20 pound propane bottles to the propane place to get them filled, they fill them all the way full. When we just exchange then at the racks you find around town now, they are only filled to 80%. The propane guy told us he though it was some federal law about having the bottles too full.. I know we get 20% or less cook time per bottle off the rack and that is right into our slim profit margin.. - Original Message - From: Don Ordes f...@tribcsp.com To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:24 PM Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? Chuck, I believe the part about cleaner plugs (less carbon), but propane has nowhere the energy of gasoline, so I don't see how he could have gotten better mpg. If propane was cheaper by a lot, he may have gotten better miles per dollar, but not miles per gallon. DonO - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander chuckalexan...@hughes.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:19 PM Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? What does the C in CNG stand for I looked it up and in Bama it's only available in Birmingham, but is only $1.37 per gallon, vs $282.9 per gallon of regular gas. BIG difference. I had an Uncle who converted his truck to run on propane. he got better mileage and he pulled the spark plugs after 50 THOUSAND miles and they looked to be in brand new condition. Chuck - Original Message - From: Allan Fish afi...@sbcglobal.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:24 PM Subject: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? Tom said, bought a truck that uses CNG so not only can I go fishing green, but I can go cheap! (currently $.93 cents a gallon) Interesting to look at the prices of CNG across the country. ALL of the Utah stations are 93｢/gallon. All of the Indiana stations are $1.73 (and few and far between). California stations ranged from $1.09 San Jose Unified School District - a flet operation) to $4.25 per gallon (Napa - Redwood Chevron). Source: http://www.cngprices.com/ a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2882 - Release Date: 05/18/10 13:26:00 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2882 - Release Date: 05/18/10 13:26:00 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice...
Yep... It's like prisons. We ALL want the bad guys locked up, just NOT in our communities, Chuck - Original Message - From: Don Ordes To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Neville, I understand totally. This is not a political debate, but a reality we all face and have caused by living in a technological age. As long as we operate vehicles and heat our homes (and AC them), we are going to need sources of power. This is what it's all about. No one, including me, wants to see the the sacrifice of our land and liviability surrendered to the unscruplous and loosely handled operations of the greedy energy conglomerates and Wall St. We all want it, but 'over there, not here'. That's what's driving the whole industry to look for alternte fuels and sources of power. So now in Wyoming we have huge windmill farms that are just as bad as CBM (or logging was) for desecrating the landscapes and horizons. They have to have roads, maintenance crews, distribution lines, etc., and all this messes with the enviornment. No one wants dams anymore, so tear them down. Coal companies fund those efforts. No one wants oil or natural gas operations, especially near them. Obvious reasons, as Neville stated. No one wants the pollution of coal-fired power plants, although with proper scrubbing, they're much better than they used to be. (But electric cars will be needed to make use of the transportation capabilities.) Solar power is an option for generating electricity, but decades from meaningful contributions (like windmills). Geothermal is being done, but too few places, and most of them parks. Volcanoes are a good source of power, but are problemmatical and usually require human sacrifice. (lol) Here they want to take the windmills down in lieu of scenery and the environment. Bio-fuels are expensive to produce, like ethanol, and this has come under fire for corruption and inefficiency. Some local waste-gas systems are efficient, but don't affect the big problems, not yet anyway. Hydrogen may be a way, but it is very problemmatical. Offshore methane hydrate deposits may have more btu's locked up than all the other sources on earth combined, but it is very hard to reach and expensive to get to the surface. We don't even have the technology yet to get it, but some proposals are out there. I say slurry- we'll see. If we can harness lightning, that could be a source, but again, is decades from reality. Nuclear Energy is making a comeback (as GB would say- 'nucular'), but that has it's risks, too. Do you want to live downwind of one? Wood-burning in fireplaces is banned in cities all over the country because of smoke pollution. So, in the big picture, what's working against your favorite fishing and recreating areas? Demand and control. We demand and they control. 'We' are the users and 'they' are the providers (along with the 'parasites' of the providers). Everyone who has their hand in the fuel-till is a parasite of the provider, and the provider is a parasite of the land. Even if one is an energy investor, he has a responsibility for the harm done. So a portion of every dollar you spend on fuel is used to wreck your environment (or their's), and then line the pockets of rich people politicians, and then get you where you want to be, heat your home, and cook your burgers. I don't have to explain how powerful the oil companies are when it comes to detroit and mpg for cars. Wow, all of a sudden cars are getting 35+ mpg. Why didn't they do that 20/30 years ago? Shall I name all the players, your governments included? So we decided to make OPEC rich and then deal with the consequences later (shifting the burden to our children). But at least they not gathering energy on our favorite plot of land. I am very environmentally consious in my designs, and I teach the same thing to operators. And I believe that fines do no good with the beaucrats in bed with the energy companies. But every dollar we spend on fuel of any kind that is gathered and transported to us for convenience puts the responsibility on us for the problems we face. And 'do it there, not here' is not a solution. 'There' is always somebody else's 'here'. So unless we want to ride bicycles to our fishing holes, we're all responsible for the big ol nasty energy picture, and are at the mercy of those who have the means to provide mass consumption energy. In populated countries where there are no cars, the pollution comes from burning wood for heat and cooking- if there is any left to burn. There, charcoal makers are the industry of need, to cut down on city smoke, and they, in turn, cut down the forests, which pollutes the rivers, which takes away from their fishing for a living Anguish of nations, not knowing the way out. Don
Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY?
*see below - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander chuckalexan...@hughes.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? Don: He just said it was cheaper to run, so I assumed (that bad word LOL) that's what he meant. He does own a concrete pumping company out of Douglassville GA (or did at the time) *I used to live in Villa Rica, my wife's home town, and drove through Douglasville every day to get to the 'unfinished at the time' I-20 to drive into Atlanta (NE even). Ate at the Paragon Restaurant many times and bought my 1st pickem-up truck there. (parts of 1973/4/5) so all his trucks ran off propane, so that is probably what he meant, Chuck Maybe you can answer this.. I know it's off topic, but it IS on topic to us, cause the more money we make, the more often we can go fishing. My wife has cooked and sold boiled peanuts for 25 years now. And when we carry our 20 pound propane bottles to the propane place to get them filled, they fill them all the way full. *This practice is now illegal and is deemed dangerous by the propane industry. Propane liquid expands with heat and there needs to be a vapor pocket above the liquid, and thus all the hullabalou about the new overfill protection nozzles required for all tanks filled at stations. It has to do with the capacity of the relief valve. When we just exchange then at the racks you find around town now, they are only filled to 80%. The propane guy told us he though it was some federal law about having the bottles too full.. I know we get 20% or less cook time per bottle off the rack and that is right into our slim profit margin.. *You should be paying for the propane by the gallon, so it wouldn't matter dollar-wise if the tank wasn't full when you bought it. It just wouldn't last as long. I'd get the weight (minus the cyl.) and see what they are charging you per gallon or per pound, and make the conversion. (see internet) Vended propane has to meet the new regs., and if you can get your tanks filled to capacity, you must have the old style valve, and every legit refill station has rules against filling these, but again, you live in Abalama. ;o) lol *Please send my wife some boiled peanuts. DonO - Original Message - From: Don Ordes f...@tribcsp.com To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:24 PM Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? Chuck, I believe the part about cleaner plugs (less carbon), but propane has nowhere the energy of gasoline, so I don't see how he could have gotten better mpg. If propane was cheaper by a lot, he may have gotten better miles per dollar, but not miles per gallon. DonO - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander chuckalexan...@hughes.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:19 PM Subject: Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? What does the C in CNG stand for I looked it up and in Bama it's only available in Birmingham, but is only $1.37 per gallon, vs $282.9 per gallon of regular gas. BIG difference. I had an Uncle who converted his truck to run on propane. he got better mileage and he pulled the spark plugs after 50 THOUSAND miles and they looked to be in brand new condition. Chuck - Original Message - From: Allan Fish afi...@sbcglobal.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:24 PM Subject: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY? Tom said, bought a truck that uses CNG so not only can I go fishing green, but I can go cheap! (currently $.93 cents a gallon) Interesting to look at the prices of CNG across the country. ALL of the Utah stations are 93｢/gallon. All of the Indiana stations are $1.73 (and few and far between). California stations ranged from $1.09 San Jose Unified School District - a flet operation) to $4.25 per gallon (Napa - Redwood Chevron). Source: http://www.cngprices.com/ a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2882 - Release Date: 05/18/10 13:26:00 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail
[VFB] PROPANE - was CNG - was WHERE IS EVERY BODY?
The subject has morphed! g Wayne the pessismist said (in part): Either that or those places do it to make higher profits and label it a safety issue. Oh, SURELY not! ;-) a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
[VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled
I've often wondered what it would be like to live in a horse and buggy community, like the Amish. Anyone know the pros and cons- like really ? I am spoiled- love my truck heater and AC as I travel, and my tunes, and my heated seat, and 75mph, and 4wd, and 4 hours to Denver, 10 min. to the ER, and the ability to hop in the truck and drive 2000 miles to the Keys, and... DonO - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Yep... It's like prisons. We ALL want the bad guys locked up, just NOT in our communities, Chuck - Original Message - From: Don Ordes To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Neville, I understand totally. This is not a political debate, but a reality we all face and have caused by living in a technological age. As long as we operate vehicles and heat our homes (and AC them), we are going to need sources of power. This is what it's all about. No one, including me, wants to see the the sacrifice of our land and liviability surrendered to the unscruplous and loosely handled operations of the greedy energy conglomerates and Wall St. We all want it, but 'over there, not here'. That's what's driving the whole industry to look for alternte fuels and sources of power. So now in Wyoming we have huge windmill farms that are just as bad as CBM (or logging was) for desecrating the landscapes and horizons. They have to have roads, maintenance crews, distribution lines, etc., and all this messes with the enviornment. No one wants dams anymore, so tear them down. Coal companies fund those efforts. No one wants oil or natural gas operations, especially near them. Obvious reasons, as Neville stated. No one wants the pollution of coal-fired power plants, although with proper scrubbing, they're much better than they used to be. (But electric cars will be needed to make use of the transportation capabilities.) Solar power is an option for generating electricity, but decades from meaningful contributions (like windmills). Geothermal is being done, but too few places, and most of them parks. Volcanoes are a good source of power, but are problemmatical and usually require human sacrifice. (lol) Here they want to take the windmills down in lieu of scenery and the environment. Bio-fuels are expensive to produce, like ethanol, and this has come under fire for corruption and inefficiency. Some local waste-gas systems are efficient, but don't affect the big problems, not yet anyway. Hydrogen may be a way, but it is very problemmatical. Offshore methane hydrate deposits may have more btu's locked up than all the other sources on earth combined, but it is very hard to reach and expensive to get to the surface. We don't even have the technology yet to get it, but some proposals are out there. I say slurry- we'll see. If we can harness lightning, that could be a source, but again, is decades from reality. Nuclear Energy is making a comeback (as GB would say- 'nucular'), but that has it's risks, too. Do you want to live downwind of one? Wood-burning in fireplaces is banned in cities all over the country because of smoke pollution. So, in the big picture, what's working against your favorite fishing and recreating areas? Demand and control. We demand and they control. 'We' are the users and 'they' are the providers (along with the 'parasites' of the providers). Everyone who has their hand in the fuel-till is a parasite of the provider, and the provider is a parasite of the land. Even if one is an energy investor, he has a responsibility for the harm done. So a portion of every dollar you spend on fuel is used to wreck your environment (or their's), and then line the pockets of rich people politicians, and then get you where you want to be, heat your home, and cook your burgers. I don't have to explain how powerful the oil companies are when it comes to detroit and mpg for cars. Wow, all of a sudden cars are getting 35+ mpg. Why didn't they do that 20/30 years ago? Shall I name all the players, your governments included? So we decided to make OPEC rich and then deal with the consequences later (shifting the burden to our children). But at least they not gathering energy on our favorite plot of land. I am very environmentally consious in my designs, and I teach the same thing to operators. And I believe that fines do no good with the beaucrats in bed with the energy companies. But every dollar we spend on fuel of any kind that is gathered and transported to us for convenience puts the responsibility on us for the problems we face. And 'do it there, not here' is not a solution. 'There' is always
[VFB] Fishing Wyoming
Hey everyone, I live in Seattle and this summer my girlfriend (a talented flyfisher) and I are planning to take the camper and escape for 3 weeks. We were thinking of heading to Wyoming. The problem is, we don't know anything about the fishing there. Is there anyone on the list who can give us general or specific recommendations on where to fish? Thanks, Jay Paulson Amazing Flies -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
[VFB] Re: HORSE AND
I've often wondered what it would be like to live in a horse and buggy community, like the Amish. Anyone know the pros and cons- like really ? In my mind, there are practically no pros. Almost all cons. Do you really want to carry the church pews five miles on Saturday to set up so you can have a 4-hour church service on Sunday? Of course, the dinner AFTER church is something else. a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] PROPANE -back on subject
OK, back on subject! How would I LIKE to live as a flyfisher? 1. Deck-hand on a flyfishing-only charter boat. LOL (Cheryl would have a problem with that) 2. Actually, in a fishing village and live off the sea. 3. As a flyfisher, own my own Montana ranch that provides everything for me and I don't have to travel because there's 100 miles of prime river on my land and a few dozen destination-quality lakes on it too. Ride horses and ride in buggies. Horses graze the range. Eat my own beef, chickens, fish...a life is good. 4. As a saltwater flyfisher, live on my own small island with turquoise flats on one side and a deep drop-off on the other (and a lagoon). Small sailboat to get to the mainland for staples, or a dock for the supply-boat to hook up. Would run a current-driven water-wheel generator for the little power I would need. donO - Original Message - From: Allan Fish afi...@sbcglobal.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:10 PM Subject: [VFB] PROPANE - was CNG - was WHERE IS EVERY BODY? The subject has morphed! g Wayne the pessismist said (in part): Either that or those places do it to make higher profits and label it a safety issue. Oh, SURELY not! ;-) a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] Fishing Wyoming
I live in Casper, WY (central +/-). Are your plans open? There's great fishing all over the state, but in some places better than others, and then some just different. How do you want to fish, and which trout are you wanting? LOL DonO - Original Message - From: Jay Paulson rustyh...@centurytel.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:18 PM Subject: [VFB] Fishing Wyoming Hey everyone, I live in Seattle and this summer my girlfriend (a talented flyfisher) and I are planning to take the camper and escape for 3 weeks. We were thinking of heading to Wyoming. The problem is, we don't know anything about the fishing there. Is there anyone on the list who can give us general or specific recommendations on where to fish? Thanks, Jay Paulson Amazing Flies -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice...
Chuck, this is the 5th time this has posted. Check your settings. DonO - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Yep... It's like prisons. We ALL want the bad guys locked up, just NOT in our communities, Chuck - Original Message - From: Don Ordes To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Neville, I understand totally. This is not a political debate, but a reality we all face and have caused by living in a technological age. As long as we operate vehicles and heat our homes (and AC them), we are going to need sources of power. This is what it's all about. No one, including me, wants to see the the sacrifice of our land and liviability surrendered to the unscruplous and loosely handled operations of the greedy energy conglomerates and Wall St. We all want it, but 'over there, not here'. That's what's driving the whole industry to look for alternte fuels and sources of power. So now in Wyoming we have huge windmill farms that are just as bad as CBM (or logging was) for desecrating the landscapes and horizons. They have to have roads, maintenance crews, distribution lines, etc., and all this messes with the enviornment. No one wants dams anymore, so tear them down. Coal companies fund those efforts. No one wants oil or natural gas operations, especially near them. Obvious reasons, as Neville stated. No one wants the pollution of coal-fired power plants, although with proper scrubbing, they're much better than they used to be. (But electric cars will be needed to make use of the transportation capabilities.) Solar power is an option for generating electricity, but decades from meaningful contributions (like windmills). Geothermal is being done, but too few places, and most of them parks. Volcanoes are a good source of power, but are problemmatical and usually require human sacrifice. (lol) Here they want to take the windmills down in lieu of scenery and the environment. Bio-fuels are expensive to produce, like ethanol, and this has come under fire for corruption and inefficiency. Some local waste-gas systems are efficient, but don't affect the big problems, not yet anyway. Hydrogen may be a way, but it is very problemmatical. Offshore methane hydrate deposits may have more btu's locked up than all the other sources on earth combined, but it is very hard to reach and expensive to get to the surface. We don't even have the technology yet to get it, but some proposals are out there. I say slurry- we'll see. If we can harness lightning, that could be a source, but again, is decades from reality. Nuclear Energy is making a comeback (as GB would say- 'nucular'), but that has it's risks, too. Do you want to live downwind of one? Wood-burning in fireplaces is banned in cities all over the country because of smoke pollution. So, in the big picture, what's working against your favorite fishing and recreating areas? Demand and control. We demand and they control. 'We' are the users and 'they' are the providers (along with the 'parasites' of the providers). Everyone who has their hand in the fuel-till is a parasite of the provider, and the provider is a parasite of the land. Even if one is an energy investor, he has a responsibility for the harm done. So a portion of every dollar you spend on fuel is used to wreck your environment (or their's), and then line the pockets of rich people politicians, and then get you where you want to be, heat your home, and cook your burgers. I don't have to explain how powerful the oil companies are when it comes to detroit and mpg for cars. Wow, all of a sudden cars are getting 35+ mpg. Why didn't they do that 20/30 years ago? Shall I name all the players, your governments included? So we decided to make OPEC rich and then deal with the consequences later (shifting the burden to our children). But at least they not gathering energy on our favorite plot of land. I am very environmentally consious in my designs, and I teach the same thing to operators. And I believe that fines do no good with the beaucrats in bed with the energy companies. But every dollar we spend on fuel of any kind that is gathered and transported to us for convenience puts the responsibility on us for the problems we face. And 'do it there, not here' is not a solution. 'There' is always somebody else's 'here'. So unless we want to ride bicycles to our fishing holes, we're all responsible for the big ol nasty energy picture, and are at the mercy of those who have the means to provide mass consumption energy. In populated countries where there are no cars, the pollution comes from
Re: [VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled
Well, speaking about pollution, I hear they step in the exhaust all too often LOL... seriously, I wondered about how it would be myself. I have a group I started years ago Called Simple Living in the Computer Age and we have members there that life totally off grid and they seem to manage just fine. I think it's all about what you are used to, Chuck - Original Message - From: Don Ordes To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:15 PM Subject: [VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled I've often wondered what it would be like to live in a horse and buggy community, like the Amish. Anyone know the pros and cons- like really ? I am spoiled- love my truck heater and AC as I travel, and my tunes, and my heated seat, and 75mph, and 4wd, and 4 hours to Denver, 10 min. to the ER, and the ability to hop in the truck and drive 2000 miles to the Keys, and... DonO - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Yep... It's like prisons. We ALL want the bad guys locked up, just NOT in our communities, Chuck - Original Message - From: Don Ordes To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Neville, I understand totally. This is not a political debate, but a reality we all face and have caused by living in a technological age. As long as we operate vehicles and heat our homes (and AC them), we are going to need sources of power. This is what it's all about. No one, including me, wants to see the the sacrifice of our land and liviability surrendered to the unscruplous and loosely handled operations of the greedy energy conglomerates and Wall St. We all want it, but 'over there, not here'. That's what's driving the whole industry to look for alternte fuels and sources of power. So now in Wyoming we have huge windmill farms that are just as bad as CBM (or logging was) for desecrating the landscapes and horizons. They have to have roads, maintenance crews, distribution lines, etc., and all this messes with the enviornment. No one wants dams anymore, so tear them down. Coal companies fund those efforts. No one wants oil or natural gas operations, especially near them. Obvious reasons, as Neville stated. No one wants the pollution of coal-fired power plants, although with proper scrubbing, they're much better than they used to be. (But electric cars will be needed to make use of the transportation capabilities.) Solar power is an option for generating electricity, but decades from meaningful contributions (like windmills). Geothermal is being done, but too few places, and most of them parks. Volcanoes are a good source of power, but are problemmatical and usually require human sacrifice. (lol) Here they want to take the windmills down in lieu of scenery and the environment. Bio-fuels are expensive to produce, like ethanol, and this has come under fire for corruption and inefficiency. Some local waste-gas systems are efficient, but don't affect the big problems, not yet anyway. Hydrogen may be a way, but it is very problemmatical. Offshore methane hydrate deposits may have more btu's locked up than all the other sources on earth combined, but it is very hard to reach and expensive to get to the surface. We don't even have the technology yet to get it, but some proposals are out there. I say slurry- we'll see. If we can harness lightning, that could be a source, but again, is decades from reality. Nuclear Energy is making a comeback (as GB would say- 'nucular'), but that has it's risks, too. Do you want to live downwind of one? Wood-burning in fireplaces is banned in cities all over the country because of smoke pollution. So, in the big picture, what's working against your favorite fishing and recreating areas? Demand and control. We demand and they control. 'We' are the users and 'they' are the providers (along with the 'parasites' of the providers). Everyone who has their hand in the fuel-till is a parasite of the provider, and the provider is a parasite of the land. Even if one is an energy investor, he has a responsibility for the harm done. So a portion of every dollar you spend on fuel is used to wreck your environment (or their's), and then line the pockets of rich people politicians, and then get you where you want to be, heat your home, and cook your burgers. I don't have to explain how powerful the oil companies are when it comes to detroit and mpg for cars. Wow, all of a sudden cars are getting 35+ mpg. Why didn't they do that 20/30 years ago? Shall I name all the players, your governments
Re: [VFB] Re: HORSE AND
Re: HORSE ANDBut the dinner on the grounds after church gets a big sandy and gritty LOL, Chuck - Original Message - From: Allan Fish To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:22 PM Subject: [VFB] Re: HORSE AND I've often wondered what it would be like to live in a horse and buggy community, like the Amish. Anyone know the pros and cons- like really ? In my mind, there are practically no pros. Almost all cons. Do you really want to carry the church pews five miles on Saturday to set up so you can have a 4-hour church service on Sunday? Of course, the dinner AFTER church is something else. a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2883 - Release Date: 05/19/10 01:26:00 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] PROPANE -back on subject
I have the movie Old Man and the Sea. I'd like to be him with a fly rod. Every time I watch it and the marlin rolls on the surface, it reminds me of my 1st sailfish in Baja, finally rolling on the surface after over an hour fight, 2' long bill looking like a saber stuck to his nose. He was nine feet long, measured by my fly rod. DonO - Original Message - From: Don Ordes f...@tribcsp.com To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] PROPANE -back on subject OK, back on subject! How would I LIKE to live as a flyfisher? 1. Deck-hand on a flyfishing-only charter boat. LOL (Cheryl would have a problem with that) 2. Actually, in a fishing village and live off the sea. 3. As a flyfisher, own my own Montana ranch that provides everything for me and I don't have to travel because there's 100 miles of prime river on my land and a few dozen destination-quality lakes on it too. Ride horses and ride in buggies. Horses graze the range. Eat my own beef, chickens, fish...a life is good. 4. As a saltwater flyfisher, live on my own small island with turquoise flats on one side and a deep drop-off on the other (and a lagoon). Small sailboat to get to the mainland for staples, or a dock for the supply-boat to hook up. Would run a current-driven water-wheel generator for the little power I would need. donO - Original Message - From: Allan Fish afi...@sbcglobal.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:10 PM Subject: [VFB] PROPANE - was CNG - was WHERE IS EVERY BODY? The subject has morphed! g Wayne the pessismist said (in part): Either that or those places do it to make higher profits and label it a safety issue. Oh, SURELY not! ;-) a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled
Chuck...them's called 'hillbillies'... lol In my old neck of the swamp, they's called coon-asses. (Cajuns) I snagged caught a nutria once with a fly. Does that count? Madder than a ticked off muskrat, he was. DonO - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled Well, speaking about pollution, I hear they step in the exhaust all too often LOL... seriously, I wondered about how it would be myself. I have a group I started years ago Called Simple Living in the Computer Age and we have members there that life totally off grid and they seem to manage just fine. I think it's all about what you are used to, Chuck - Original Message - From: Don Ordes To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:15 PM Subject: [VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled I've often wondered what it would be like to live in a horse and buggy community, like the Amish. Anyone know the pros and cons- like really ? I am spoiled- love my truck heater and AC as I travel, and my tunes, and my heated seat, and 75mph, and 4wd, and 4 hours to Denver, 10 min. to the ER, and the ability to hop in the truck and drive 2000 miles to the Keys, and... DonO - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Yep... It's like prisons. We ALL want the bad guys locked up, just NOT in our communities, Chuck - Original Message - From: Don Ordes To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Neville, I understand totally. This is not a political debate, but a reality we all face and have caused by living in a technological age. As long as we operate vehicles and heat our homes (and AC them), we are going to need sources of power. This is what it's all about. No one, including me, wants to see the the sacrifice of our land and liviability surrendered to the unscruplous and loosely handled operations of the greedy energy conglomerates and Wall St. We all want it, but 'over there, not here'. That's what's driving the whole industry to look for alternte fuels and sources of power. So now in Wyoming we have huge windmill farms that are just as bad as CBM (or logging was) for desecrating the landscapes and horizons. They have to have roads, maintenance crews, distribution lines, etc., and all this messes with the enviornment. No one wants dams anymore, so tear them down. Coal companies fund those efforts. No one wants oil or natural gas operations, especially near them. Obvious reasons, as Neville stated. No one wants the pollution of coal-fired power plants, although with proper scrubbing, they're much better than they used to be. (But electric cars will be needed to make use of the transportation capabilities.) Solar power is an option for generating electricity, but decades from meaningful contributions (like windmills). Geothermal is being done, but too few places, and most of them parks. Volcanoes are a good source of power, but are problemmatical and usually require human sacrifice. (lol) Here they want to take the windmills down in lieu of scenery and the environment. Bio-fuels are expensive to produce, like ethanol, and this has come under fire for corruption and inefficiency. Some local waste-gas systems are efficient, but don't affect the big problems, not yet anyway. Hydrogen may be a way, but it is very problemmatical. Offshore methane hydrate deposits may have more btu's locked up than all the other sources on earth combined, but it is very hard to reach and expensive to get to the surface. We don't even have the technology yet to get it, but some proposals are out there. I say slurry- we'll see. If we can harness lightning, that could be a source, but again, is decades from reality. Nuclear Energy is making a comeback (as GB would say- 'nucular'), but that has it's risks, too. Do you want to live downwind of one? Wood-burning in fireplaces is banned in cities all over the country because of smoke pollution. So, in the big picture, what's working against your favorite fishing and recreating areas? Demand and control. We demand and they control. 'We' are the users and 'they' are the providers (along with the 'parasites' of the providers). Everyone who has their hand in the fuel-till is a parasite of the provider, and the provider is a parasite of the land. Even if one is an energy investor, he has a responsibility
Re: [VFB] PROPANE - was CNG - was WHERE IS EVERY BODY?
Yeah, but at least we found out where everybody is ??? LOL.. I , HOPEFULLY am gonna be fishing in about an hour. My wife just took my son to work, and when she gets home, we are going to go to the local city park lake. When it cools down to about 120 that is LOL... Chuck - Original Message - From: Allan Fish afi...@sbcglobal.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:10 PM Subject: [VFB] PROPANE - was CNG - was WHERE IS EVERY BODY? The subject has morphed! g Wayne the pessismist said (in part): Either that or those places do it to make higher profits and label it a safety issue. Oh, SURELY not! ;-) a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2883 - Release Date: 05/19/10 01:26:00 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
[VFB] 49 EMAILS
Went to the ranch this morning after clearing some 50 emails. And, lo and behold when I got home a few minutes ago, there were 49 new posts, Most of them from VFB members, 31 to be exact. Methinks we've just about whipped the coal bed, etc. methane, etc. to death. LOL JIMMY D -- º * JIMMY D. MOORE, ARS WB5RHT,author Moon Holler Misfits Fishing Hunting Club, Member, TOWA, Past VP Guadalupe River Trout Unlimited, North Zone Fishing Editor Emeritus, Texas Fish Game Magazine, VFB FFW Moderator, Scout Exec. BSA, Retired, http://bigtroutman.tripod.com/index.html * º *** -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] 49 EMAILS
We have and we have changed subject matter. The energy posts evolved to be on topic, so don't go getting you bass-reel in a backlash. Buggs (\ /) ( . .) J()() - Original Message - From: Jimmy D. Moore To: Virtual Fly Box Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:45 PM Subject: [VFB] 49 EMAILS Went to the ranch this morning after clearing some 50 emails. And, lo and behold when I got home a few minutes ago, there were 49 new posts, Most of them from VFB members, 31 to be exact. Methinks we've just about whipped the coal bed, etc. methane, etc. to death. LOL JIMMY D -- º * JIMMY D. MOORE, ARS WB5RHT,author Moon Holler Misfits Fishing Hunting Club, Member, TOWA, Past VP Guadalupe River Trout Unlimited, North Zone Fishing Editor Emeritus, Texas Fish Game Magazine, VFB FFW Moderator, Scout Exec. BSA, Retired, http://bigtroutman.tripod.com/index.html * º *** -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
[VFB] help
I just received a e-mail about updating some information on my hotmail account, if anyone is a hotmail user did you receive an e-mail and is it real? Jerry McKaughan,President Caddis Fly Fishing Club P. O. Box 9104 Russellville, AR 72811 www.caddisflyfishers.org _ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendarocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] help
Don't use hotmail, but be cautious of any emails requiring you to give account information, or having you open attachments. DonO - Original Message - From: J McK To: Fly Swap Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:53 PM Subject: [VFB] help I just received a e-mail about updating some information on my hotmail account, if anyone is a hotmail user did you receive an e-mail and is it real? Jerry McKaughan,President Caddis Fly Fishing Club P. O. Box 9104 Russellville, AR 72811 www.caddisflyfishers.org -- The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. Get busy. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice...
Thanks... I know we HAVE had problems with Hughes net for a cpl days now, Chuck - Original Message - From: Don Ordes To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Chuck, this is the 5th time this has posted. Check your settings. DonO - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Yep... It's like prisons. We ALL want the bad guys locked up, just NOT in our communities, Chuck - Original Message - From: Don Ordes To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Neville, I understand totally. This is not a political debate, but a reality we all face and have caused by living in a technological age. As long as we operate vehicles and heat our homes (and AC them), we are going to need sources of power. This is what it's all about. No one, including me, wants to see the the sacrifice of our land and liviability surrendered to the unscruplous and loosely handled operations of the greedy energy conglomerates and Wall St. We all want it, but 'over there, not here'. That's what's driving the whole industry to look for alternte fuels and sources of power. So now in Wyoming we have huge windmill farms that are just as bad as CBM (or logging was) for desecrating the landscapes and horizons. They have to have roads, maintenance crews, distribution lines, etc., and all this messes with the enviornment. No one wants dams anymore, so tear them down. Coal companies fund those efforts. No one wants oil or natural gas operations, especially near them. Obvious reasons, as Neville stated. No one wants the pollution of coal-fired power plants, although with proper scrubbing, they're much better than they used to be. (But electric cars will be needed to make use of the transportation capabilities.) Solar power is an option for generating electricity, but decades from meaningful contributions (like windmills). Geothermal is being done, but too few places, and most of them parks. Volcanoes are a good source of power, but are problemmatical and usually require human sacrifice. (lol) Here they want to take the windmills down in lieu of scenery and the environment. Bio-fuels are expensive to produce, like ethanol, and this has come under fire for corruption and inefficiency. Some local waste-gas systems are efficient, but don't affect the big problems, not yet anyway. Hydrogen may be a way, but it is very problemmatical. Offshore methane hydrate deposits may have more btu's locked up than all the other sources on earth combined, but it is very hard to reach and expensive to get to the surface. We don't even have the technology yet to get it, but some proposals are out there. I say slurry- we'll see. If we can harness lightning, that could be a source, but again, is decades from reality. Nuclear Energy is making a comeback (as GB would say- 'nucular'), but that has it's risks, too. Do you want to live downwind of one? Wood-burning in fireplaces is banned in cities all over the country because of smoke pollution. So, in the big picture, what's working against your favorite fishing and recreating areas? Demand and control. We demand and they control. 'We' are the users and 'they' are the providers (along with the 'parasites' of the providers). Everyone who has their hand in the fuel-till is a parasite of the provider, and the provider is a parasite of the land. Even if one is an energy investor, he has a responsibility for the harm done. So a portion of every dollar you spend on fuel is used to wreck your environment (or their's), and then line the pockets of rich people politicians, and then get you where you want to be, heat your home, and cook your burgers. I don't have to explain how powerful the oil companies are when it comes to detroit and mpg for cars. Wow, all of a sudden cars are getting 35+ mpg. Why didn't they do that 20/30 years ago? Shall I name all the players, your governments included? So we decided to make OPEC rich and then deal with the consequences later (shifting the burden to our children). But at least they not gathering energy on our favorite plot of land. I am very environmentally consious in my designs, and I teach the same thing to operators. And I believe that fines do no good with the beaucrats in bed with the energy companies. But every dollar we spend on fuel of any kind that is gathered and transported to us for convenience puts the responsibility on us for the problems we face. And 'do it there, not here' is not a
Re: [VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled
ROFL... Well, I lived OFF grid for a while.. Till I came up with the power bill ROFL... And yeah, I think Nutria have even bigger teeth than a beaver, Chuck - Original Message - From: Don Ordes To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled Chuck...them's called 'hillbillies'... lol In my old neck of the swamp, they's called coon-asses. (Cajuns) I snagged caught a nutria once with a fly. Does that count? Madder than a ticked off muskrat, he was. DonO - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled Well, speaking about pollution, I hear they step in the exhaust all too often LOL... seriously, I wondered about how it would be myself. I have a group I started years ago Called Simple Living in the Computer Age and we have members there that life totally off grid and they seem to manage just fine. I think it's all about what you are used to, Chuck - Original Message - From: Don Ordes To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:15 PM Subject: [VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled I've often wondered what it would be like to live in a horse and buggy community, like the Amish. Anyone know the pros and cons- like really ? I am spoiled- love my truck heater and AC as I travel, and my tunes, and my heated seat, and 75mph, and 4wd, and 4 hours to Denver, 10 min. to the ER, and the ability to hop in the truck and drive 2000 miles to the Keys, and... DonO - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Yep... It's like prisons. We ALL want the bad guys locked up, just NOT in our communities, Chuck - Original Message - From: Don Ordes To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Neville, I understand totally. This is not a political debate, but a reality we all face and have caused by living in a technological age. As long as we operate vehicles and heat our homes (and AC them), we are going to need sources of power. This is what it's all about. No one, including me, wants to see the the sacrifice of our land and liviability surrendered to the unscruplous and loosely handled operations of the greedy energy conglomerates and Wall St. We all want it, but 'over there, not here'. That's what's driving the whole industry to look for alternte fuels and sources of power. So now in Wyoming we have huge windmill farms that are just as bad as CBM (or logging was) for desecrating the landscapes and horizons. They have to have roads, maintenance crews, distribution lines, etc., and all this messes with the enviornment. No one wants dams anymore, so tear them down. Coal companies fund those efforts. No one wants oil or natural gas operations, especially near them. Obvious reasons, as Neville stated. No one wants the pollution of coal-fired power plants, although with proper scrubbing, they're much better than they used to be. (But electric cars will be needed to make use of the transportation capabilities.) Solar power is an option for generating electricity, but decades from meaningful contributions (like windmills). Geothermal is being done, but too few places, and most of them parks. Volcanoes are a good source of power, but are problemmatical and usually require human sacrifice. (lol) Here they want to take the windmills down in lieu of scenery and the environment. Bio-fuels are expensive to produce, like ethanol, and this has come under fire for corruption and inefficiency. Some local waste-gas systems are efficient, but don't affect the big problems, not yet anyway. Hydrogen may be a way, but it is very problemmatical. Offshore methane hydrate deposits may have more btu's locked up than all the other sources on earth combined, but it is very hard to reach and expensive to get to the surface. We don't even have the technology yet to get it, but some proposals are out there. I say slurry- we'll see. If we can harness lightning, that could be a source, but again, is decades from reality. Nuclear Energy is making a comeback (as GB would say- 'nucular'), but that has it's risks, too. Do you want to live downwind of one? Wood-burning in fireplaces is banned in cities all over the country because of smoke
Re: [VFB] 49 EMAILS
Average that over the last 49 days and that's one a day... Dr. D - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] 49 EMAILS Not being a smart butt, but are we on a quota system ??? Chuck - Original Message - From: Jimmy D. Moore To: Virtual Fly Box Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:45 PM Subject: [VFB] 49 EMAILS Went to the ranch this morning after clearing some 50 emails. And, lo and behold when I got home a few minutes ago, there were 49 new posts, Most of them from VFB members, 31 to be exact. Methinks we've just about whipped the coal bed, etc. methane, etc. to death. LOL JIMMY D -- º * JIMMY D. MOORE, ARS WB5RHT,author Moon Holler Misfits Fishing Hunting Club, Member, TOWA, Past VP Guadalupe River Trout Unlimited, North Zone Fishing Editor Emeritus, Texas Fish Game Magazine, VFB FFW Moderator, Scout Exec. BSA, Retired, http://bigtroutman.tripod.com/index.html * º *** -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2883 - Release Date: 05/19/10 01:26:00 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
RE: [VFB] Fishing Wyoming
Hi DonO, We flyfish only. Fish for any kind of trout :-). Our plans are completely open, but maybe concentrate on the west side of the state. We might have the float tubes with as well, but no drift boat. Jay -Original Message- From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Ordes Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:31 PM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [VFB] Fishing Wyoming I live in Casper, WY (central +/-). Are your plans open? There's great fishing all over the state, but in some places better than others, and then some just different. How do you want to fish, and which trout are you wanting? LOL DonO - Original Message - From: Jay Paulson rustyh...@centurytel.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:18 PM Subject: [VFB] Fishing Wyoming Hey everyone, I live in Seattle and this summer my girlfriend (a talented flyfisher) and I are planning to take the camper and escape for 3 weeks. We were thinking of heading to Wyoming. The problem is, we don't know anything about the fishing there. Is there anyone on the list who can give us general or specific recommendations on where to fish? Thanks, Jay Paulson Amazing Flies -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] Fishing Wyoming
How do you intend to visit? Camping, lodging, moving around? Tons of lakes everywhere for tubing. If you aren't fishing, what are your planned activities? You are headed for trout Mecca, but plan well. What time of the year? Wading OK? Can you back-pack in to remote areas? Can you pay for fishing on Indian Reservations? DonO - Original Message - From: Jay Paulson rustyh...@centurytel.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:17 PM Subject: RE: [VFB] Fishing Wyoming Hi DonO, We flyfish only. Fish for any kind of trout :-). Our plans are completely open, but maybe concentrate on the west side of the state. We might have the float tubes with as well, but no drift boat. Jay -Original Message- From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Ordes Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:31 PM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [VFB] Fishing Wyoming I live in Casper, WY (central +/-). Are your plans open? There's great fishing all over the state, but in some places better than others, and then some just different. How do you want to fish, and which trout are you wanting? LOL DonO - Original Message - From: Jay Paulson rustyh...@centurytel.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:18 PM Subject: [VFB] Fishing Wyoming Hey everyone, I live in Seattle and this summer my girlfriend (a talented flyfisher) and I are planning to take the camper and escape for 3 weeks. We were thinking of heading to Wyoming. The problem is, we don't know anything about the fishing there. Is there anyone on the list who can give us general or specific recommendations on where to fish? Thanks, Jay Paulson Amazing Flies -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
[VFB] Fishing today
Well folks: My wife, myself and my son DID get to to lake for a little while. just a LITTLE while cause they weren't exactly tearing it up. We each caught 5 or 6, with my wife catching two more catfish with my trusty Pink Panfish Producer, and I didn't even know catfish were panfish LOL. At least we got out of the house, which was good, Chuck -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] 49 EMAILS
Went to the ranch this morning after clearing some 50 emails. And, lo and behold when I got home a few minutes ago, there were 49 new posts, Most of them from VFB members, 31 to be exact. Methinks we've just about whipped the coal bed, etc. methane, etc. to death. LOL JIMMY D -- Jimmy, We just can't please you. A couple of days ago you were asking Where IS everybody because there weren't enough posts! :-) :-) a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] help
I just received a e-mail about updating some information on my hotmail account, if anyone is a hotmail user did you receive an e-mail and is it real? Nope. It's Phishing for your information. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] help
I get this on my Yahoo account several times a month. It is received in my Spam File Arkansas Tony --- On Wed, 5/19/10, Allan Fish afi...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Allan Fish afi...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [VFB] help To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 19, 2010, 8:39 PM I just received a e-mail about updating some information on my hotmail account, if anyone is a hotmail user did you receive an e-mail and is it real? Nope. It's Phishing for your information. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
RE: [VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled
Your truck only goes 75 MPH? THAT'S a hardship. From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Ordes Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:15 PM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: [VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled I've often wondered what it would be like to live in a horse and buggy community, like the Amish. Anyone know the pros and cons- like really ? I am spoiled- love my truck heater and AC as I travel, and my tunes, and my heated seat, and 75mph, and 4wd, and 4 hours to Denver, 10 min. to the ER, and the ability to hop in the truck and drive 2000 miles to the Keys, and... DonO - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander mailto:chuckalexan...@hughes.net To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Yep... It's like prisons. We ALL want the bad guys locked up, just NOT in our communities, Chuck - Original Message - From: Don Ordes mailto:f...@tribcsp.com To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Neville, I understand totally. This is not a political debate, but a reality we all face and have caused by living in a technological age. As long as we operate vehicles and heat our homes (and AC them), we are going to need sources of power. This is what it's all about. No one, including me, wants to see the the sacrifice of our land and liviability surrendered to the unscruplous and loosely handled operations of the greedy energy conglomerates and Wall St. We all want it, but 'over there, not here'. That's what's driving the whole industry to look for alternte fuels and sources of power. So now in Wyoming we have huge windmill farms that are just as bad as CBM (or logging was) for desecrating the landscapes and horizons. They have to have roads, maintenance crews, distribution lines, etc., and all this messes with the enviornment. No one wants dams anymore, so tear them down. Coal companies fund those efforts. No one wants oil or natural gas operations, especially near them. Obvious reasons, as Neville stated. No one wants the pollution of coal-fired power plants, although with proper scrubbing, they're much better than they used to be. (But electric cars will be needed to make use of the transportation capabilities.) Solar power is an option for generating electricity, but decades from meaningful contributions (like windmills). Geothermal is being done, but too few places, and most of them parks. Volcanoes are a good source of power, but are problemmatical and usually require human sacrifice. (lol) Here they want to take the windmills down in lieu of scenery and the environment. Bio-fuels are expensive to produce, like ethanol, and this has come under fire for corruption and inefficiency. Some local waste-gas systems are efficient, but don't affect the big problems, not yet anyway. Hydrogen may be a way, but it is very problemmatical. Offshore methane hydrate deposits may have more btu's locked up than all the other sources on earth combined, but it is very hard to reach and expensive to get to the surface. We don't even have the technology yet to get it, but some proposals are out there. I say slurry- we'll see. If we can harness lightning, that could be a source, but again, is decades from reality. Nuclear Energy is making a comeback (as GB would say- 'nucular'), but that has it's risks, too. Do you want to live downwind of one? Wood-burning in fireplaces is banned in cities all over the country because of smoke pollution. So, in the big picture, what's working against your favorite fishing and recreating areas? Demand and control. We demand and they control. 'We' are the users and 'they' are the providers (along with the 'parasites' of the providers). Everyone who has their hand in the fuel-till is a parasite of the provider, and the provider is a parasite of the land. Even if one is an energy investor, he has a responsibility for the harm done. So a portion of every dollar you spend on fuel is used to wreck your environment (or their's), and then line the pockets of rich people politicians, and then get you where you want to be, heat your home, and cook your burgers. I don't have to explain how powerful the oil companies are when it comes to detroit and mpg for cars. Wow, all of a sudden cars are getting 35+ mpg. Why didn't they do that 20/30 years ago? Shall I name all the players, your governments included? So we decided to make OPEC rich and then deal with the consequences later (shifting the burden to our children). But at least they not gathering energy on our favorite plot of land. I am very environmentally consious in my designs, and I teach the same thing to operators. And I believe that fines do no good with the beaucrats in bed with the energy
Re: CNG - was Re: [VFB] WHERE IS EVERY BODY?
My truck is one of many white Ford F-150 that are on the road with the CNG sticker on the back. They stem from a law (now defunct) requiring government fleets to have twenty percent of the their vehicles use a green fuel. Most used either propane or CNG (compressed natural gas). All of them started life as conventional gasoline engines that were prepped for CNG conversion, and they will run on either gasoline or CNG. The law lapsed, and as the trucks aged they were sold from the fleets. The truck has more power when running on gasoline and better mpg. I get 18 mpg on the freeway with gasoline, only 14 to 15 with natural gas. I don't know what my city mileage would be with gasoline since I have never tried it, but with natural gas, it is pretty dismal... around 11 mpg. But with gas costing over $3.00 a gallon, and CNG at 93 cents a gallon, it is like driving a 8-cylinder truck getting 33 mpg! There are several downsides to owning CNG. As Don pointed out, it is hard to pack much natural gas in the tank. Mine is 13 gallons, but I have never been able to fill it with more than 9. How much you can actually put in a tank depends entirely on the current pressure of the refilling station . Sometimes the pressure has been so low that I could only get five gallons into an empty 13 gallon tank! Not only that, CNG stations are few and far between. There are only three between Ogden and Salt Lake City, (but one of them I go past every day on my way to work). The cost of natural gas varies widely from state to state. In Utah, all of the CNG stations are run buy Questar, our natural gas provider. They are located at regular gas stations, but I pay by credit card directly to Questar. I bought the truck primarily for fishing. I can get to all of my most frequented reservoirs using natural gas, and it pulls my boat FAR better than my old 4 cylinder Toyota Tacoma! On May 18, 2010, at 6:24 PM, Allan Fish wrote: Tom said, bought a truck that uses CNG so not only can I go fishing green, but I can go cheap! (currently $.93 cents a gallon) Interesting to look at the prices of CNG across the country. ALL of the Utah stations are 93¢/gallon. All of the Indiana stations are $1.73 (and few and far between). California stations ranged from $1.09 San Jose Unified School District - a flet operation) to $4.25 per gallon (Napa - Redwood Chevron). Source: http://www.cngprices.com/ a. -- Allan Fish Greenwood, IN afi...@sbcglobal.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled
Lots of them here in PA. your biggest problem would be to get one to sell you land or a home unless you are of the sect. Gary S. - Original Message - From: Don Ordes To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:15 PM Subject: [VFB] Fuel prices and contamination- I am spoiled I've often wondered what it would be like to live in a horse and buggy community, like the Amish. Anyone know the pros and cons- like really ? I am spoiled- love my truck heater and AC as I travel, and my tunes, and my heated seat, and 75mph, and 4wd, and 4 hours to Denver, 10 min. to the ER, and the ability to hop in the truck and drive 2000 miles to the Keys, and... DonO - Original Message - From: Chuck Alexander To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Yep... It's like prisons. We ALL want the bad guys locked up, just NOT in our communities, Chuck - Original Message - From: Don Ordes To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Coal Bed Methane (CBM), how to make a choice... Neville, I understand totally. This is not a political debate, but a reality we all face and have caused by living in a technological age. As long as we operate vehicles and heat our homes (and AC them), we are going to need sources of power. This is what it's all about. No one, including me, wants to see the the sacrifice of our land and liviability surrendered to the unscruplous and loosely handled operations of the greedy energy conglomerates and Wall St. We all want it, but 'over there, not here'. That's what's driving the whole industry to look for alternte fuels and sources of power. So now in Wyoming we have huge windmill farms that are just as bad as CBM (or logging was) for desecrating the landscapes and horizons. They have to have roads, maintenance crews, distribution lines, etc., and all this messes with the enviornment. No one wants dams anymore, so tear them down. Coal companies fund those efforts. No one wants oil or natural gas operations, especially near them. Obvious reasons, as Neville stated. No one wants the pollution of coal-fired power plants, although with proper scrubbing, they're much better than they used to be. (But electric cars will be needed to make use of the transportation capabilities.) Solar power is an option for generating electricity, but decades from meaningful contributions (like windmills). Geothermal is being done, but too few places, and most of them parks. Volcanoes are a good source of power, but are problemmatical and usually require human sacrifice. (lol) Here they want to take the windmills down in lieu of scenery and the environment. Bio-fuels are expensive to produce, like ethanol, and this has come under fire for corruption and inefficiency. Some local waste-gas systems are efficient, but don't affect the big problems, not yet anyway. Hydrogen may be a way, but it is very problemmatical. Offshore methane hydrate deposits may have more btu's locked up than all the other sources on earth combined, but it is very hard to reach and expensive to get to the surface. We don't even have the technology yet to get it, but some proposals are out there. I say slurry- we'll see. If we can harness lightning, that could be a source, but again, is decades from reality. Nuclear Energy is making a comeback (as GB would say- 'nucular'), but that has it's risks, too. Do you want to live downwind of one? Wood-burning in fireplaces is banned in cities all over the country because of smoke pollution. So, in the big picture, what's working against your favorite fishing and recreating areas? Demand and control. We demand and they control. 'We' are the users and 'they' are the providers (along with the 'parasites' of the providers). Everyone who has their hand in the fuel-till is a parasite of the provider, and the provider is a parasite of the land. Even if one is an energy investor, he has a responsibility for the harm done. So a portion of every dollar you spend on fuel is used to wreck your environment (or their's), and then line the pockets of rich people politicians, and then get you where you want to be, heat your home, and cook your burgers. I don't have to explain how powerful the oil companies are when it comes to detroit and mpg for cars. Wow, all of a sudden cars are getting 35+ mpg. Why didn't they do that 20/30 years ago? Shall I name all the players, your governments included? So we decided to make OPEC rich and then deal with the consequences later (shifting the burden to our children). But at least they not gathering energy on our favorite plot of land. I am very
