Re: [Videolib] Can we burn DVDs of "The Machine That Changed the World"?
In the early 90s we did a collection-wide conversion of our U-matics to VHS based on whether we received permission from the copyright holders to do so. Titles whose copyright holders outright said no or wanted a license fee were not converted. Eventually, we were able to purchase or duplicate many of the remaining titles. On the occasions we have needed to convert VHS to DVD, we have contacted the copyright holder. Some of my queries have appeared here. All but one of the copyright holders we contacted have been very receptive to our request. We've provided a free DVD to those who requested one in exchange for permission. For the few titles for which we have not found a copyright holder, we have converted them under Section 108 guidelines. We always include on the label whether the DVD was made with permission (and from whom, on what date) or whether we invoked Section 108. We're lucky to have a TV production studio at our disposal to do the conversions. I have to agree with Gary that the non-circulating requirement of Section 108 is the most irritating part of the whole affair. Gary has bemoaned the lack of understanding (unwillingness to understand?) about formats and copyright in university IT departments. The same is true on our campus. Our IT department is in charge of equipping "master classrooms," and the person in charge of this function is patently disinterested in the media library's concerns. If we have to delay or deny getting media to classrooms because of a copyright problem, then it's our problem not IT's problem - even if a lawsuit were brought against us. You can guess the outcome - most classrooms now do not have VHS players. Not that they can't be bought anymore, just that the folks in charge of classroom equipment refuse to purchase them. Faculty are now caught in the middle - we can't convert today anything they need to use tomorrow (literally), and they can't use a large portion of what we have in a timely manner. In the dwindling number of rooms where VHS players still exist, they are notoriously hungry. I'm not waiting until most of our VHS collection ends up on my desk because these old, hungry players are feasting on our tapes. Our VHS collection stopped growing almost 10 years ago (with rare exceptions), so the tapes are definitely aging. We are now in the middle of a weeding project before we pursue another conversion project. I don't mind doing the work to seek permission, but I do mind having to tell faculty they are straight-jacketed by Section 108 in the way they use the DVD conversions to fulfill the pupose of the educational content when permission cannot be obtained. My 2ยข, Gail On 12/14/2010 10:20 AM, ghand...@library.berkeley.edu wrote: Let's put it this way, Jessica: I have about 32K tapes in my collection, and I can confidently say that I can show significant deterioration for the majority. This feature of 108 is perhaps the most idiotic of them all: what it effectively says is that you have to wait until the medium is unplayable or badly worn to save it. Makes no sense whatsoever. Gary So you are now claiming a VHS is automatically deteriorating? This is absurd.The VHS or whatever format is supposed to be in must be "damaged, deteriorating, lost, or stolen, or if the existing format in which the work is stored has become obsolete, " in order to even be considered for a digital transfer. There was no indication whatsoever that the VHS set in the case has any of these issues. I think we have discussed in the past that you don't get to just transfer all your VHS tapes to DVD if the title is not available in DVD or have you changed your mind? This is not a free pass to upgrade to easier format because a professor wants it. I have 30 year old VHS copies that play better than DVDs. I am honestly shocked you would take such a blase attitude to rights. You are right it is a slippery slope that you seem to have turned into Niagra Falls by asserting any VHS can be digitized and circulated throughout a campus. The reason I focused on if this item was PD was because that was actually the question. To be totally honest any professor claiming it is OK to digitize a VHS released in the 90s because it is PD is either a total idiot ( which I doubt) or just trying to use any excuse to justify getting a DVD because again the VHS is not damaged just inconvenient. Might one ask if any of the lawyers involved in the Mellon project represent rights holders? Since virtually no university library is in fact open to the "public" which is requirement of 108 you might want to be careful how you define the phrase. It is really logical to think the restriction on digital copy made from damaged VHS was intended for Joe Smith who has never ever been allowed to take anything out from a university library in the first place? I think we know from the ongoing UCLA case (more on that soon) getting opinions from only one side is not a good idea. I c
Re: [Videolib] Can we burn DVDs of "The Machine That Changed the World"?
With apologies to Dennis D (and except for Eyes on the Prize), name a single non-theatrical title that has gone out of distribution for over a year and come back. (I'll admit that features are trickier...and those are not really what's centrally being discussed here) gary > are you kidding? This is definitely NOT bullshit it is lively hood of > filmmakers and distributors you have supported for decades. Titles that go > out of print never come back? Until very recently titles constantly came > went in and out of print. With the market having shrunk so much recently > it > is a lot harder to spend the money to make a DVD to distribute. What in > the > world are you talking about that you have hardly seen any films come back > in > distribution in 30 years. I think think of everything from Hollywood > features to indie docs that often go in and out. Ask Dennis he > specializes > in films in getting films back in distribution. I am dealing with this on > a > daily basis Gary, and I only work free lance. You know that educational > companies are being killed by schools making illegal copies of old VHS > titles.I can think of everything from the American Film Theater (which at > one time were the rarest videos out there) to Chaplin films to The Word > is > Out that came back. I was personally responsible for Yellen getting back > in > distribution after many years. Frankly if we were actually talking about > really rare and obscure films for which there was little livelihood of > them > ever becoming available in DVD , no on would care, but instead on a daily > basis films whose owners are clearly known, who have worked to make films > available as best they can are seeing their works illegally digitized and > now even streamed. You think this has nothing to do with the crisis in the > educational market? You can't imagine how depressing it is for a filmmaker > and distributors to find that an institution they worked with for years > illegally copied and increasingly streamed their work. I spoke to a > filmmaker today who feels personally betrayed and right now she is > scrambling to be able to live and keep making films. > > You did try to use the "rare" and "I am only trying to save and preserve > these films argument" so I threw it back at you. However your claim that > EVERY VHS is > "at risk" is frankly galling and not your previous position. I imagine you > are getting frustrated and pushed by impatient faculty but either a VHS is > damaged or it isn't and I have ones that are 30 years old in the old > padded > boxes that are fine. I don't know what has changed your mind from your > previous position that a video actually had to be damaged and warning > people > they could not just make DVDs of videos in the collection. > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 1:29 PM, wrote: > >> This is bullsh and you know it, Jessica. >> >> I've been in this biz close to 30 years and have virtually never seen a >> title which has gone out of distribution for any period of time come >> back >> in another format. It simply doesn't happen. >> >> I never said that you can make a copy of anything on vhs. What I said >> is >> that for items determined (after suitable due diligence) to be >> unavailable >> for purchase in any format at fair market price make a 108 copy, if the >> copying otherwise adheres to the conditions of 108. I said >> (furthermore) >> that in such cases, in almost every instance, vhs tapes can be shown to >> be >> degraded and at some physical risk. >> >> Rare has nothing to do with 108 (what's that mean, anyway?). 108 also >> has >> nothing to do with "convenience." If it's no longer get-able, and if I >> can demonstrate physical deterioration and risk, I'll copy. >> >> >> >> >> > Because if ever library who bought a VHS just makes their own DVD >> then >> > the >> > actual owner has no incentive to make one because the market has been >> > fatally compromised. If a distributor is going to invest tens of >> thousands >> > of dollars and 300 major libraries already made their own DVD copies >> > exactly >> > how will they be able to afford to do that?. Please don't tell me all >> > those >> > libraries will instantly buy the legit DVD, because that is simply not >> > true. >> > You might Gary , but you know damn well others will not. >> > >> > No offense but you keep changing positions. Yesterday it was all VHS >> > copies are basically at risk so you can make DVD copies of anything >> you >> > have on VHS. Today it was the only way to "preserve" rare items and >> now >> it >> > is anything I need to keep a title available and trust me to buy >> another >> > copy when you invest those thousands in it. Again the vast majority of >> > these >> > titles are NOT rare, they just have not been released on DVD. At least >> > save >> > the pretense that this is about preservation or rarity, it is about A. >> > getting a title in a convenient format. B. Not having to limit access >> to >> > "gasp horrors" th
[Videolib] New question about "The Machine that Changed the World"
Okay, you've reinforced what I was thinking: we can't assume permission to make DVD copies from our set of old-but-functional VHS tapes. My question now is whether anyone can give me contact information for a person or department at WGBH or BBC, who can tell me how/where to request permission. I know, it's not very likely we'll get permission, but it couldn't hurt to ask. Thanks, Marilyn VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] Can we burn DVDs of "The Machine That Changed the World"?
I've seen it many times, beyond count, moreso with CDs but with videos as well. Your search for sound & video ends here! Jay Sonin, General Manager Music Hunter Distributing Company 25-58 34th Street, Suite # 2 Astoria, NY 11103-4902 musichun...@nyc.rr.com 718-777-1949 - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [Videolib] Can we burn DVDs of "The Machine That Changed the World"? > This is bullsh and you know it, Jessica. > > I've been in this biz close to 30 years and have virtually never seen a > title which has gone out of distribution for any period of time come back > in another format. It simply doesn't happen. > > I never said that you can make a copy of anything on vhs. What I said is > that for items determined (after suitable due diligence) to be unavailable > for purchase in any format at fair market price make a 108 copy, if the > copying otherwise adheres to the conditions of 108. I said (furthermore) > that in such cases, in almost every instance, vhs tapes can be shown to be > degraded and at some physical risk. > > Rare has nothing to do with 108 (what's that mean, anyway?). 108 also has > nothing to do with "convenience." If it's no longer get-able, and if I > can demonstrate physical deterioration and risk, I'll copy. > > > > >> Because if ever library who bought a VHS just makes their own DVD then >> the >> actual owner has no incentive to make one because the market has been >> fatally compromised. If a distributor is going to invest tens of >> thousands >> of dollars and 300 major libraries already made their own DVD copies >> exactly >> how will they be able to afford to do that?. Please don't tell me all >> those >> libraries will instantly buy the legit DVD, because that is simply not >> true. >> You might Gary , but you know damn well others will not. >> >> No offense but you keep changing positions. Yesterday it was all VHS >> copies are basically at risk so you can make DVD copies of anything you >> have on VHS. Today it was the only way to "preserve" rare items and now >> it >> is anything I need to keep a title available and trust me to buy another >> copy when you invest those thousands in it. Again the vast majority of >> these >> titles are NOT rare, they just have not been released on DVD. At least >> save >> the pretense that this is about preservation or rarity, it is about A. >> getting a title in a convenient format. B. Not having to limit access to >> "gasp horrors" the library when >> you do make a copy. The title remains available for viewing and research, >> but the institution does not get a free upgrade to a circulating copy . >> As >> I >> keep asking >> why is this so hard to explain. I really doubt any library is digitizing >> all >> their books that are rare and out of print and circulating them so entire >> classes can use one copy of a copy. Do you think that might hurt >> publishers? >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 1:03 PM, wrote: >> >>> Wait...I'm not getting something here: >>> >>> 1. A title is no longer available for purchase in any format >>> 2. The library owns an earlier-purchased copy on tape >>> 3. The tape is in physical risk of disintegration (or is in rough shape >>> currently) >>> 4. The library makes a 108 replacement copy. >>> >>> HOW will this be "the end of educational distributors?" >>> >>> If I could buy a goddamn replacement, I would. I can't. So copy I will >>> (and legally under current copyright allowances) >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> >>> >>> > Except a ton of stuff is out of distribution and the rights holder >>> can't >>> > afford to upgrade. If you give libraries carte blanche to make DVDs of >>> any >>> > out of print video and that does seem to be what you are suggesting, >>> it >>> > will >>> > be the end of educational distributors. >>> > The title that started this seemed like a run of the mill out of print >>> > title >>> > not some super rare one of kind needs to be preserved. I am fine with >>> a >>> > project to identify and preserve genuinely rare and unique material, >>> but >>> > to >>> > say anything that is not available on DVD entitles a library that owns >>> a >>> > VHS >>> > to digitize it and stream or use it classes is entirely different. >>> > Honestly >>> > Gary I am not even sure what your position is. If a studio released >>> a >>> > title and sold 5,000 copies 15 years ago, it has the film in 35mm, it >>> runs >>> > on TV , but the studio has not released it on DVD is it OK for a >>> library >>> > to >>> > take that inconvenient video and make a DVD? Suppose a company or >>> > filmmaker >>> > you have done business with for years says no they don't have the >>> title >>> > you >>> > bought in VHS on DVD because it will cost them too much money, though >>> > perhaps they might later, you get to digitize that VHS in the >>> meantime? >>> > THIS is what is happening all over. This is NOT a case of trying to >>> "save" >>> > rare
Re: [Videolib] Can we burn DVDs of "The Machine That Changed the World"?
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 1:29 PM, wrote: > > I've been in this biz close to 30 years and have virtually never seen a > title which has gone out of distribution for any period of time come back > in another format. It simply doesn't happen. > Gary. No reflection on the rest of the argument, but even if you're just counting "educational" titles, off the top of my head, we've done or in the process of doing new versions of: PEOPLE OF THE WIND YOU GOT TO MOVE BLACK ROOTS WORD IS OUT BUNKER HILL 1956 GODS OF BALI AND NOW, MIGUEL and we are not known as an educational distributor. I would suspect that WMM and Icarus are doing quite a bit. And of course, archivists are now interested in these kind of films so they are being preserved. In terms of the title in question, there is no way in heck I'd do a new version and I suspect other distributors would agree. But just because it's downloaded or available elsewhere, that doesn't mean it's PD. As for the rest of the argument, I'm out of it. I got too much going on at the moment and I know at least half of this is semantics. -- Best, Dennis Doros Milestone Film & Video/Milliarium Zero PO Box 128 Harrington Park, NJ 07640 Phone: 201-767-3117 Fax: 201-767-3035 email: milefi...@gmail.com www.milestonefilms.com www.ontheboweryfilm.com www.arayafilm.com www.exilesfilm.com www.wordisoutmovie.com www.killerofsheep.com AMIA Austin 2011: www.amianet.org Join "Milestone Film" on Facebook! VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] Can we burn DVDs of "The Machine That Changed the World"?
This is bullsh and you know it, Jessica. I've been in this biz close to 30 years and have virtually never seen a title which has gone out of distribution for any period of time come back in another format. It simply doesn't happen. I never said that you can make a copy of anything on vhs. What I said is that for items determined (after suitable due diligence) to be unavailable for purchase in any format at fair market price make a 108 copy, if the copying otherwise adheres to the conditions of 108. I said (furthermore) that in such cases, in almost every instance, vhs tapes can be shown to be degraded and at some physical risk. Rare has nothing to do with 108 (what's that mean, anyway?). 108 also has nothing to do with "convenience." If it's no longer get-able, and if I can demonstrate physical deterioration and risk, I'll copy. > Because if ever library who bought a VHS just makes their own DVD then > the > actual owner has no incentive to make one because the market has been > fatally compromised. If a distributor is going to invest tens of thousands > of dollars and 300 major libraries already made their own DVD copies > exactly > how will they be able to afford to do that?. Please don't tell me all > those > libraries will instantly buy the legit DVD, because that is simply not > true. > You might Gary , but you know damn well others will not. > > No offense but you keep changing positions. Yesterday it was all VHS > copies are basically at risk so you can make DVD copies of anything you > have on VHS. Today it was the only way to "preserve" rare items and now it > is anything I need to keep a title available and trust me to buy another > copy when you invest those thousands in it. Again the vast majority of > these > titles are NOT rare, they just have not been released on DVD. At least > save > the pretense that this is about preservation or rarity, it is about A. > getting a title in a convenient format. B. Not having to limit access to > "gasp horrors" the library when > you do make a copy. The title remains available for viewing and research, > but the institution does not get a free upgrade to a circulating copy . As > I > keep asking > why is this so hard to explain. I really doubt any library is digitizing > all > their books that are rare and out of print and circulating them so entire > classes can use one copy of a copy. Do you think that might hurt > publishers? > > > > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 1:03 PM, wrote: > >> Wait...I'm not getting something here: >> >> 1. A title is no longer available for purchase in any format >> 2. The library owns an earlier-purchased copy on tape >> 3. The tape is in physical risk of disintegration (or is in rough shape >> currently) >> 4. The library makes a 108 replacement copy. >> >> HOW will this be "the end of educational distributors?" >> >> If I could buy a goddamn replacement, I would. I can't. So copy I will >> (and legally under current copyright allowances) >> >> Gary >> >> >> >> > Except a ton of stuff is out of distribution and the rights holder >> can't >> > afford to upgrade. If you give libraries carte blanche to make DVDs of >> any >> > out of print video and that does seem to be what you are suggesting, >> it >> > will >> > be the end of educational distributors. >> > The title that started this seemed like a run of the mill out of print >> > title >> > not some super rare one of kind needs to be preserved. I am fine with >> a >> > project to identify and preserve genuinely rare and unique material, >> but >> > to >> > say anything that is not available on DVD entitles a library that owns >> a >> > VHS >> > to digitize it and stream or use it classes is entirely different. >> > Honestly >> > Gary I am not even sure what your position is. If a studio released >> a >> > title and sold 5,000 copies 15 years ago, it has the film in 35mm, it >> runs >> > on TV , but the studio has not released it on DVD is it OK for a >> library >> > to >> > take that inconvenient video and make a DVD? Suppose a company or >> > filmmaker >> > you have done business with for years says no they don't have the >> title >> > you >> > bought in VHS on DVD because it will cost them too much money, though >> > perhaps they might later, you get to digitize that VHS in the >> meantime? >> > THIS is what is happening all over. This is NOT a case of trying to >> "save" >> > rare films, it is libraries and more precisely professors not being >> able >> > to >> > access a film when and in what format they want. I seriously doubt >> > Marilyn's copy of MACHINE THAT CHANGED THE WORLD is one of kind and in >> > need >> > of preservation. It just has not been released in DVD and the prof >> does >> > not >> > want to use it in VHS so comes up with a bogus claim that a 1992 film >> is >> > PD. >> > >> > I know I am in one of my hostile moods today, but I do think a whole >> lot >> > of >> > institutions (driven by profs and IT people) are acting like
Re: [Videolib] Can we burn DVDs of "The Machine That Changed the World"?
Because if ever library who bought a VHS just makes their own DVD then the actual owner has no incentive to make one because the market has been fatally compromised. If a distributor is going to invest tens of thousands of dollars and 300 major libraries already made their own DVD copies exactly how will they be able to afford to do that?. Please don't tell me all those libraries will instantly buy the legit DVD, because that is simply not true. You might Gary , but you know damn well others will not. No offense but you keep changing positions. Yesterday it was all VHS copies are basically at risk so you can make DVD copies of anything you have on VHS. Today it was the only way to "preserve" rare items and now it is anything I need to keep a title available and trust me to buy another copy when you invest those thousands in it. Again the vast majority of these titles are NOT rare, they just have not been released on DVD. At least save the pretense that this is about preservation or rarity, it is about A. getting a title in a convenient format. B. Not having to limit access to "gasp horrors" the library when you do make a copy. The title remains available for viewing and research, but the institution does not get a free upgrade to a circulating copy . As I keep asking why is this so hard to explain. I really doubt any library is digitizing all their books that are rare and out of print and circulating them so entire classes can use one copy of a copy. Do you think that might hurt publishers? On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 1:03 PM, wrote: > Wait...I'm not getting something here: > > 1. A title is no longer available for purchase in any format > 2. The library owns an earlier-purchased copy on tape > 3. The tape is in physical risk of disintegration (or is in rough shape > currently) > 4. The library makes a 108 replacement copy. > > HOW will this be "the end of educational distributors?" > > If I could buy a goddamn replacement, I would. I can't. So copy I will > (and legally under current copyright allowances) > > Gary > > > > > Except a ton of stuff is out of distribution and the rights holder can't > > afford to upgrade. If you give libraries carte blanche to make DVDs of > any > > out of print video and that does seem to be what you are suggesting, it > > will > > be the end of educational distributors. > > The title that started this seemed like a run of the mill out of print > > title > > not some super rare one of kind needs to be preserved. I am fine with a > > project to identify and preserve genuinely rare and unique material, but > > to > > say anything that is not available on DVD entitles a library that owns a > > VHS > > to digitize it and stream or use it classes is entirely different. > > Honestly > > Gary I am not even sure what your position is. If a studio released a > > title and sold 5,000 copies 15 years ago, it has the film in 35mm, it > runs > > on TV , but the studio has not released it on DVD is it OK for a library > > to > > take that inconvenient video and make a DVD? Suppose a company or > > filmmaker > > you have done business with for years says no they don't have the title > > you > > bought in VHS on DVD because it will cost them too much money, though > > perhaps they might later, you get to digitize that VHS in the meantime? > > THIS is what is happening all over. This is NOT a case of trying to > "save" > > rare films, it is libraries and more precisely professors not being able > > to > > access a film when and in what format they want. I seriously doubt > > Marilyn's copy of MACHINE THAT CHANGED THE WORLD is one of kind and in > > need > > of preservation. It just has not been released in DVD and the prof does > > not > > want to use it in VHS so comes up with a bogus claim that a 1992 film is > > PD. > > > > I know I am in one of my hostile moods today, but I do think a whole lot > > of > > institutions (driven by profs and IT people) are acting like Asian > > bootleggers. Independent filmmakers and distributors in particular looked > > to > > libraries to support them and protect their rights not to copy their > > material without permission. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:54 AM, wrote: > > > >> Jessica... > >> > >> There's a HELL of a lot of difference between freely digitizing and > >> delivering in-distribution content (under the banner of 107 or other > >> rationales) and invoking 108 to save content that is out-of-distribution > >> and at risk of going away for good. Come on, J. You KNOW these two > >> things have NOTHING to do with each other whatsoever in terms of market > >> impact. > >> > >> Gary > >> > >> > >> > >> > No what it effectively says is you don't get the right to make a free > >> copy > >> > or upgrade. It is pretty clear it was written for preservation and > >> > research > >> > not for circulation which would include classroom use. If you could > >> just > >> > digitize everything ( which to be honest is happe
Re: [Videolib] Can we burn DVDs of "The Machine That Changed the World"?
NB Jessica, Marilyn said specifically that this program has been digitized and steamed. That's why she thought it might be PD. Note her question below. The entire program is already online, apparently on several sites. So your worst fears etc. This series is a history of the computer that ends in 1992. Possibly the BBC/PBS released the files at some point on the grounds that the series is so old there is no more profit to be made from it, or it might have been a provision of the original grant that after X years it was to be made freely available. I have discovered that the foreign-language video series developed by Annenberg Media (French in Action, Destinos) are now available for free on their website in streaming versions. Marilyn, a site last updated in 1999 recommends asking the Association for Computing Machinery about obtaining copies of the series. Unfortunately the person they suggest contacting, Mr. Mandelbaum, seems to have retired. But it sounds like someone there might know where the rights are. http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/TMTCTW.html Judy >> >> >> >> >> >> Second, would we have the right to download a video file from a >> place >> >> >> like >> >> >> this (*http://preview.tinyurl.com/5p55fd*), and burn it onto DVDs? >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance for any information or opinions. >> >> >> Marilyn Huntley >> >> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] Can we burn DVDs of "The Machine That Changed the World"?
Wait...I'm not getting something here: 1. A title is no longer available for purchase in any format 2. The library owns an earlier-purchased copy on tape 3. The tape is in physical risk of disintegration (or is in rough shape currently) 4. The library makes a 108 replacement copy. HOW will this be "the end of educational distributors?" If I could buy a goddamn replacement, I would. I can't. So copy I will (and legally under current copyright allowances) Gary > Except a ton of stuff is out of distribution and the rights holder can't > afford to upgrade. If you give libraries carte blanche to make DVDs of any > out of print video and that does seem to be what you are suggesting, it > will > be the end of educational distributors. > The title that started this seemed like a run of the mill out of print > title > not some super rare one of kind needs to be preserved. I am fine with a > project to identify and preserve genuinely rare and unique material, but > to > say anything that is not available on DVD entitles a library that owns a > VHS > to digitize it and stream or use it classes is entirely different. > Honestly > Gary I am not even sure what your position is. If a studio released a > title and sold 5,000 copies 15 years ago, it has the film in 35mm, it runs > on TV , but the studio has not released it on DVD is it OK for a library > to > take that inconvenient video and make a DVD? Suppose a company or > filmmaker > you have done business with for years says no they don't have the title > you > bought in VHS on DVD because it will cost them too much money, though > perhaps they might later, you get to digitize that VHS in the meantime? > THIS is what is happening all over. This is NOT a case of trying to "save" > rare films, it is libraries and more precisely professors not being able > to > access a film when and in what format they want. I seriously doubt > Marilyn's copy of MACHINE THAT CHANGED THE WORLD is one of kind and in > need > of preservation. It just has not been released in DVD and the prof does > not > want to use it in VHS so comes up with a bogus claim that a 1992 film is > PD. > > I know I am in one of my hostile moods today, but I do think a whole lot > of > institutions (driven by profs and IT people) are acting like Asian > bootleggers. Independent filmmakers and distributors in particular looked > to > libraries to support them and protect their rights not to copy their > material without permission. > > > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:54 AM, wrote: > >> Jessica... >> >> There's a HELL of a lot of difference between freely digitizing and >> delivering in-distribution content (under the banner of 107 or other >> rationales) and invoking 108 to save content that is out-of-distribution >> and at risk of going away for good. Come on, J. You KNOW these two >> things have NOTHING to do with each other whatsoever in terms of market >> impact. >> >> Gary >> >> >> >> > No what it effectively says is you don't get the right to make a free >> copy >> > or upgrade. It is pretty clear it was written for preservation and >> > research >> > not for circulation which would include classroom use. If you could >> just >> > digitize everything ( which to be honest is happening in many >> unscrupulous >> > institutions) there would be no reason or ability for rights holders >> to >> > actually make decent digital copies. As Dennis has pointed out >> endlessly >> > it >> > costs a lot of money to make a good digital copy. I am a little >> grumpier >> > than usual this morning having been informed by a producer that a >> major >> > university did indeed digitize everything it owned and put it on a >> server >> > two years ago. Classes no longer bother with VHS or DVD and in this >> case >> > thousands of rights holders are screwed. The educational market in >> > particular is suffering not because the market has shrunk but because >> many >> > institutions are acting like Asian film pirates. >> > >> > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:20 AM, >> wrote: >> > >> >> Let's put it this way, Jessica: I have about 32K tapes in my >> >> collection, >> >> and I can confidently say that I can show significant deterioration >> for >> >> the majority. >> >> >> >> This feature of 108 is perhaps the most idiotic of them all: what it >> >> effectively says is that you have to wait until the medium is >> unplayable >> >> or badly worn to save it. Makes no sense whatsoever. >> >> >> >> Gary >> >> >> >> >> >> > So you are now claiming a VHS is automatically deteriorating? This >> is >> >> > absurd.The VHS or whatever format is supposed to be in must be >> >> "damaged, >> >> > deteriorating, lost, or stolen, or if the existing format in which >> the >> >> > work >> >> > is stored has become obsolete, " in order to even be considered for >> a >> >> > digital transfer. There was no indication whatsoever that the VHS >> set >> >> in >> >> > the >> >> > case has any of these issues. I think we have dis
Re: [Videolib] Can we burn DVDs of "The Machine That Changed the World"?
Except a ton of stuff is out of distribution and the rights holder can't afford to upgrade. If you give libraries carte blanche to make DVDs of any out of print video and that does seem to be what you are suggesting, it will be the end of educational distributors. The title that started this seemed like a run of the mill out of print title not some super rare one of kind needs to be preserved. I am fine with a project to identify and preserve genuinely rare and unique material, but to say anything that is not available on DVD entitles a library that owns a VHS to digitize it and stream or use it classes is entirely different. Honestly Gary I am not even sure what your position is. If a studio released a title and sold 5,000 copies 15 years ago, it has the film in 35mm, it runs on TV , but the studio has not released it on DVD is it OK for a library to take that inconvenient video and make a DVD? Suppose a company or filmmaker you have done business with for years says no they don't have the title you bought in VHS on DVD because it will cost them too much money, though perhaps they might later, you get to digitize that VHS in the meantime? THIS is what is happening all over. This is NOT a case of trying to "save" rare films, it is libraries and more precisely professors not being able to access a film when and in what format they want. I seriously doubt Marilyn's copy of MACHINE THAT CHANGED THE WORLD is one of kind and in need of preservation. It just has not been released in DVD and the prof does not want to use it in VHS so comes up with a bogus claim that a 1992 film is PD. I know I am in one of my hostile moods today, but I do think a whole lot of institutions (driven by profs and IT people) are acting like Asian bootleggers. Independent filmmakers and distributors in particular looked to libraries to support them and protect their rights not to copy their material without permission. On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:54 AM, wrote: > Jessica... > > There's a HELL of a lot of difference between freely digitizing and > delivering in-distribution content (under the banner of 107 or other > rationales) and invoking 108 to save content that is out-of-distribution > and at risk of going away for good. Come on, J. You KNOW these two > things have NOTHING to do with each other whatsoever in terms of market > impact. > > Gary > > > > > No what it effectively says is you don't get the right to make a free > copy > > or upgrade. It is pretty clear it was written for preservation and > > research > > not for circulation which would include classroom use. If you could just > > digitize everything ( which to be honest is happening in many > unscrupulous > > institutions) there would be no reason or ability for rights holders to > > actually make decent digital copies. As Dennis has pointed out endlessly > > it > > costs a lot of money to make a good digital copy. I am a little grumpier > > than usual this morning having been informed by a producer that a major > > university did indeed digitize everything it owned and put it on a server > > two years ago. Classes no longer bother with VHS or DVD and in this case > > thousands of rights holders are screwed. The educational market in > > particular is suffering not because the market has shrunk but because > many > > institutions are acting like Asian film pirates. > > > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:20 AM, wrote: > > > >> Let's put it this way, Jessica: I have about 32K tapes in my > >> collection, > >> and I can confidently say that I can show significant deterioration for > >> the majority. > >> > >> This feature of 108 is perhaps the most idiotic of them all: what it > >> effectively says is that you have to wait until the medium is unplayable > >> or badly worn to save it. Makes no sense whatsoever. > >> > >> Gary > >> > >> > >> > So you are now claiming a VHS is automatically deteriorating? This is > >> > absurd.The VHS or whatever format is supposed to be in must be > >> "damaged, > >> > deteriorating, lost, or stolen, or if the existing format in which the > >> > work > >> > is stored has become obsolete, " in order to even be considered for a > >> > digital transfer. There was no indication whatsoever that the VHS set > >> in > >> > the > >> > case has any of these issues. I think we have discussed in the past > >> that > >> > you > >> > don't get to just transfer all your VHS tapes to DVD if the title is > >> not > >> > available in DVD or have you changed your mind? This is not a free > >> pass > >> > to > >> > upgrade to easier format because a professor wants it. > >> > I have 30 year old VHS copies that play better than DVDs. I am > >> honestly > >> > shocked you would take such a blase attitude to rights. You are right > >> it > >> > is > >> > a slippery slope that you seem to have turned into Niagra Falls by > >> > asserting > >> > any VHS can be digitized and circulated throughout a campus. > >> > > >> > The reason I focused on if this i
Re: [Videolib] Pricing tiers on Amazon!
All, I would only add to Gary's reply that if you do not need PPR and the distributor offers with or without PPR from their own site, please purchase direct from the distributor as more of the revenue from the purchase goes to the filmmaker. This is certainly true when you purchase from Kino Lorber Edu. Best, Elizabeth Elizabeth Sheldon Vice President Kino Lorber, Inc. 333 W. 39th St., Suite 503 New York, NY 10018 (212) 629-6880 www.kinolorberedu.com On Dec 14, 2010, at 12:24 PM, Moshiri, Farhad wrote: > Thanks Gary. Have a wonderful holidays. > > Farhad > > > From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu > [videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu > ] On Behalf Of ghand...@library.berkeley.edu [ghand...@library.berkeley.edu > ] > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:13 AM > To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu > Subject: Re: [Videolib] Pricing tiers on Amazon! > > In our experience, since most of these are actually fulfilled by the > distributor (not by amazon), if the distributor catches the fact > that an > institution is ordering at home video pricing, they'll ring you up > and let > you know you have to cough up the big bucks. > > Purchasing via amazon is not contractual (I don't think)...so, as I've > repeatedly urged, if you don't need PPR, and you can score at home > video > pricing, DO IT! > > gary > > >> Recently, I've noticed that some publishers are selling their DVDs on >> Amazon with different pricing for schools/public libraries and >> college/university libraries. How can they control who buys which >> one? Is >> purchasing from Amazon binding like a contract directly between the >> publisher and the library? Thanks. >> >> Farhad Moshiri >> AV Librarian >> University of the Incarnate Word >> San Antonio, TX >> >> >> This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential or >> contain privileged information and are intended solely for the use >> of the >> individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the >> intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this >> email in >> error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or >> copying of >> this email and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this email in error, please immediately delete the email >> and any >> attachments from your system and notify the sender. Any other use >> of this >> e-mail is prohibited. Thank you for your compliance. >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of >> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, >> acquisition,bibliographic >> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video >> formats in >> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will >> serve >> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a >> channel of >> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video >> producers and distributors. >> > > > Gary Handman > Director > Media Resources Center > Moffitt Library > UC Berkeley > > 510-643-8566 > ghand...@library.berkeley.edu > http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC > > "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." > --Francois Truffaut > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, > acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current > and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It > is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for > video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between > libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and > distributors. > > This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential or > contain privileged information and are intended solely for the use > of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are > not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received > this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, > printing, or copying of this email and any attachments is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please > immediately delete the email and any attachments from your system > and notify the sender. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited. > Thank you for your compliance. > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, > acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current > and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It > is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for > video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between > libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and > distributors. VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discus
Re: [Videolib] Pricing tiers on Amazon!
Thanks Gary. Have a wonderful holidays. Farhad From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of ghand...@library.berkeley.edu [ghand...@library.berkeley.edu] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:13 AM To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: [Videolib] Pricing tiers on Amazon! In our experience, since most of these are actually fulfilled by the distributor (not by amazon), if the distributor catches the fact that an institution is ordering at home video pricing, they'll ring you up and let you know you have to cough up the big bucks. Purchasing via amazon is not contractual (I don't think)...so, as I've repeatedly urged, if you don't need PPR, and you can score at home video pricing, DO IT! gary > Recently, I've noticed that some publishers are selling their DVDs on > Amazon with different pricing for schools/public libraries and > college/university libraries. How can they control who buys which one? Is > purchasing from Amazon binding like a contract directly between the > publisher and the library? Thanks. > > Farhad Moshiri > AV Librarian > University of the Incarnate Word > San Antonio, TX > > > This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential or > contain privileged information and are intended solely for the use of the > individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the > intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this email in > error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of > this email and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this email in error, please immediately delete the email and any > attachments from your system and notify the sender. Any other use of this > e-mail is prohibited. Thank you for your compliance. > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve > as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > producers and distributors. > Gary Handman Director Media Resources Center Moffitt Library UC Berkeley 510-643-8566 ghand...@library.berkeley.edu http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." --Francois Truffaut VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors. This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential or contain privileged information and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately delete the email and any attachments from your system and notify the sender. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited. Thank you for your compliance. VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] Pricing tiers on Amazon!
In our experience, since most of these are actually fulfilled by the distributor (not by amazon), if the distributor catches the fact that an institution is ordering at home video pricing, they'll ring you up and let you know you have to cough up the big bucks. Purchasing via amazon is not contractual (I don't think)...so, as I've repeatedly urged, if you don't need PPR, and you can score at home video pricing, DO IT! gary > Recently, I've noticed that some publishers are selling their DVDs on > Amazon with different pricing for schools/public libraries and > college/university libraries. How can they control who buys which one? Is > purchasing from Amazon binding like a contract directly between the > publisher and the library? Thanks. > > Farhad Moshiri > AV Librarian > University of the Incarnate Word > San Antonio, TX > > > This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential or > contain privileged information and are intended solely for the use of the > individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the > intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this email in > error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of > this email and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this email in error, please immediately delete the email and any > attachments from your system and notify the sender. Any other use of this > e-mail is prohibited. Thank you for your compliance. > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve > as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > producers and distributors. > Gary Handman Director Media Resources Center Moffitt Library UC Berkeley 510-643-8566 ghand...@library.berkeley.edu http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." --Francois Truffaut VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
[Videolib] Pricing tiers on Amazon!
Recently, I've noticed that some publishers are selling their DVDs on Amazon with different pricing for schools/public libraries and college/university libraries. How can they control who buys which one? Is purchasing from Amazon binding like a contract directly between the publisher and the library? Thanks. Farhad Moshiri AV Librarian University of the Incarnate Word San Antonio, TX This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential or contain privileged information and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately delete the email and any attachments from your system and notify the sender. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited. Thank you for your compliance. VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] Can we burn DVDs of "The Machine That Changed the World"?
Jessica... There's a HELL of a lot of difference between freely digitizing and delivering in-distribution content (under the banner of 107 or other rationales) and invoking 108 to save content that is out-of-distribution and at risk of going away for good. Come on, J. You KNOW these two things have NOTHING to do with each other whatsoever in terms of market impact. Gary > No what it effectively says is you don't get the right to make a free copy > or upgrade. It is pretty clear it was written for preservation and > research > not for circulation which would include classroom use. If you could just > digitize everything ( which to be honest is happening in many unscrupulous > institutions) there would be no reason or ability for rights holders to > actually make decent digital copies. As Dennis has pointed out endlessly > it > costs a lot of money to make a good digital copy. I am a little grumpier > than usual this morning having been informed by a producer that a major > university did indeed digitize everything it owned and put it on a server > two years ago. Classes no longer bother with VHS or DVD and in this case > thousands of rights holders are screwed. The educational market in > particular is suffering not because the market has shrunk but because many > institutions are acting like Asian film pirates. > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:20 AM, wrote: > >> Let's put it this way, Jessica: I have about 32K tapes in my >> collection, >> and I can confidently say that I can show significant deterioration for >> the majority. >> >> This feature of 108 is perhaps the most idiotic of them all: what it >> effectively says is that you have to wait until the medium is unplayable >> or badly worn to save it. Makes no sense whatsoever. >> >> Gary >> >> >> > So you are now claiming a VHS is automatically deteriorating? This is >> > absurd.The VHS or whatever format is supposed to be in must be >> "damaged, >> > deteriorating, lost, or stolen, or if the existing format in which the >> > work >> > is stored has become obsolete, " in order to even be considered for a >> > digital transfer. There was no indication whatsoever that the VHS set >> in >> > the >> > case has any of these issues. I think we have discussed in the past >> that >> > you >> > don't get to just transfer all your VHS tapes to DVD if the title is >> not >> > available in DVD or have you changed your mind? This is not a free >> pass >> > to >> > upgrade to easier format because a professor wants it. >> > I have 30 year old VHS copies that play better than DVDs. I am >> honestly >> > shocked you would take such a blase attitude to rights. You are right >> it >> > is >> > a slippery slope that you seem to have turned into Niagra Falls by >> > asserting >> > any VHS can be digitized and circulated throughout a campus. >> > >> > The reason I focused on if this item was PD was because that was >> actually >> > the question. To be totally honest any professor claiming it is OK to >> > digitize a VHS released in the 90s because it is PD is either a total >> > idiot >> > ( which I doubt) or just trying to use any excuse to justify getting a >> DVD >> > because again the VHS is not >> > damaged just inconvenient. >> > >> > Might one ask if any of the lawyers involved in the Mellon project >> > represent >> > rights holders? Since virtually no university library is in fact open >> to >> > the >> > "public" which is requirement of 108 you might want to be careful how >> you >> > define the phrase. It is really logical to think the restriction on >> > digital >> > copy made from damaged VHS was intended for Joe Smith who has never >> ever >> > been allowed to take anything out from a university library in the >> first >> > place? I think we know from the ongoing UCLA case (more on that soon) >> > getting opinions from only one side is not a good idea. >> > >> > I confess I am a more than a tad skeptical of the Mellon project. I am >> > pretty sure that a this is the same project for which one the major >> NYU >> > representatives >> > told an ALA meeting that one should NOT try to contact the rights >> holder >> > when trying to determine the status of out of print work because they >> > would >> > only cause trouble and want money. I know Dennis has repeatedly urged >> > rights holders and the academic community to work together, but >> despite >> > the >> > claims that evil >> > big studios are eating up the world I don't see much effort by the >> > academic >> > community to include rights holders, especially educational rights >> holders >> > in these discussions. You can't one hand say how much everyone wants >> to >> > support independent filmmakers & distributors and on the other say, >> by >> > the >> > way we just made are own DVD because we didn't have the time for you >> to >> > do >> > things like get new materials for transfer, clear rights etc. >> > >> > On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:41 PM, >> wrote: >> > >> >> It doesn't have to be i
Re: [Videolib] Can we burn DVDs of "The Machine That Changed the World"?
No what it effectively says is you don't get the right to make a free copy or upgrade. It is pretty clear it was written for preservation and research not for circulation which would include classroom use. If you could just digitize everything ( which to be honest is happening in many unscrupulous institutions) there would be no reason or ability for rights holders to actually make decent digital copies. As Dennis has pointed out endlessly it costs a lot of money to make a good digital copy. I am a little grumpier than usual this morning having been informed by a producer that a major university did indeed digitize everything it owned and put it on a server two years ago. Classes no longer bother with VHS or DVD and in this case thousands of rights holders are screwed. The educational market in particular is suffering not because the market has shrunk but because many institutions are acting like Asian film pirates. On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:20 AM, wrote: > Let's put it this way, Jessica: I have about 32K tapes in my collection, > and I can confidently say that I can show significant deterioration for > the majority. > > This feature of 108 is perhaps the most idiotic of them all: what it > effectively says is that you have to wait until the medium is unplayable > or badly worn to save it. Makes no sense whatsoever. > > Gary > > > > So you are now claiming a VHS is automatically deteriorating? This is > > absurd.The VHS or whatever format is supposed to be in must be "damaged, > > deteriorating, lost, or stolen, or if the existing format in which the > > work > > is stored has become obsolete, " in order to even be considered for a > > digital transfer. There was no indication whatsoever that the VHS set in > > the > > case has any of these issues. I think we have discussed in the past that > > you > > don't get to just transfer all your VHS tapes to DVD if the title is not > > available in DVD or have you changed your mind? This is not a free pass > > to > > upgrade to easier format because a professor wants it. > > I have 30 year old VHS copies that play better than DVDs. I am honestly > > shocked you would take such a blase attitude to rights. You are right it > > is > > a slippery slope that you seem to have turned into Niagra Falls by > > asserting > > any VHS can be digitized and circulated throughout a campus. > > > > The reason I focused on if this item was PD was because that was actually > > the question. To be totally honest any professor claiming it is OK to > > digitize a VHS released in the 90s because it is PD is either a total > > idiot > > ( which I doubt) or just trying to use any excuse to justify getting a > DVD > > because again the VHS is not > > damaged just inconvenient. > > > > Might one ask if any of the lawyers involved in the Mellon project > > represent > > rights holders? Since virtually no university library is in fact open to > > the > > "public" which is requirement of 108 you might want to be careful how you > > define the phrase. It is really logical to think the restriction on > > digital > > copy made from damaged VHS was intended for Joe Smith who has never ever > > been allowed to take anything out from a university library in the first > > place? I think we know from the ongoing UCLA case (more on that soon) > > getting opinions from only one side is not a good idea. > > > > I confess I am a more than a tad skeptical of the Mellon project. I am > > pretty sure that a this is the same project for which one the major NYU > > representatives > > told an ALA meeting that one should NOT try to contact the rights holder > > when trying to determine the status of out of print work because they > > would > > only cause trouble and want money. I know Dennis has repeatedly urged > > rights holders and the academic community to work together, but despite > > the > > claims that evil > > big studios are eating up the world I don't see much effort by the > > academic > > community to include rights holders, especially educational rights > holders > > in these discussions. You can't one hand say how much everyone wants to > > support independent filmmakers & distributors and on the other say, by > > the > > way we just made are own DVD because we didn't have the time for you to > > do > > things like get new materials for transfer, clear rights etc. > > > > On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:41 PM, wrote: > > > >> It doesn't have to be in the PD in order for it to qualify for > >> replacement > >> copying under Section 108, Jessica: 108 can be invoked as soon as "the > >> library or archives has, after a reasonable effort, determined that an > >> unused replacement cannot be obtained at a fair price." > >> > >> Recent discussions with colleagues at our Mellon meeting in NY > >> (including > >> lawyers)regarding the "non-circulating" issue of 108 seem to indicate > >> that > >> the interpretation of 108 in this regard could be extended considerably > >> beyond the library buil
Re: [Videolib] Can we burn DVDs of "The Machine That Changed the World"?
Let's put it this way, Jessica: I have about 32K tapes in my collection, and I can confidently say that I can show significant deterioration for the majority. This feature of 108 is perhaps the most idiotic of them all: what it effectively says is that you have to wait until the medium is unplayable or badly worn to save it. Makes no sense whatsoever. Gary > So you are now claiming a VHS is automatically deteriorating? This is > absurd.The VHS or whatever format is supposed to be in must be "damaged, > deteriorating, lost, or stolen, or if the existing format in which the > work > is stored has become obsolete, " in order to even be considered for a > digital transfer. There was no indication whatsoever that the VHS set in > the > case has any of these issues. I think we have discussed in the past that > you > don't get to just transfer all your VHS tapes to DVD if the title is not > available in DVD or have you changed your mind? This is not a free pass > to > upgrade to easier format because a professor wants it. > I have 30 year old VHS copies that play better than DVDs. I am honestly > shocked you would take such a blase attitude to rights. You are right it > is > a slippery slope that you seem to have turned into Niagra Falls by > asserting > any VHS can be digitized and circulated throughout a campus. > > The reason I focused on if this item was PD was because that was actually > the question. To be totally honest any professor claiming it is OK to > digitize a VHS released in the 90s because it is PD is either a total > idiot > ( which I doubt) or just trying to use any excuse to justify getting a DVD > because again the VHS is not > damaged just inconvenient. > > Might one ask if any of the lawyers involved in the Mellon project > represent > rights holders? Since virtually no university library is in fact open to > the > "public" which is requirement of 108 you might want to be careful how you > define the phrase. It is really logical to think the restriction on > digital > copy made from damaged VHS was intended for Joe Smith who has never ever > been allowed to take anything out from a university library in the first > place? I think we know from the ongoing UCLA case (more on that soon) > getting opinions from only one side is not a good idea. > > I confess I am a more than a tad skeptical of the Mellon project. I am > pretty sure that a this is the same project for which one the major NYU > representatives > told an ALA meeting that one should NOT try to contact the rights holder > when trying to determine the status of out of print work because they > would > only cause trouble and want money. I know Dennis has repeatedly urged > rights holders and the academic community to work together, but despite > the > claims that evil > big studios are eating up the world I don't see much effort by the > academic > community to include rights holders, especially educational rights holders > in these discussions. You can't one hand say how much everyone wants to > support independent filmmakers & distributors and on the other say, by > the > way we just made are own DVD because we didn't have the time for you to > do > things like get new materials for transfer, clear rights etc. > > On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:41 PM, wrote: > >> It doesn't have to be in the PD in order for it to qualify for >> replacement >> copying under Section 108, Jessica: 108 can be invoked as soon as "the >> library or archives has, after a reasonable effort, determined that an >> unused replacement cannot be obtained at a fair price." >> >> Recent discussions with colleagues at our Mellon meeting in NY >> (including >> lawyers)regarding the "non-circulating" issue of 108 seem to indicate >> that >> the interpretation of 108 in this regard could be extended considerably >> beyond the library building. The matter really boils down to the >> interpretation of "public" (any such copy or phonorecord that is >> reproduced in digital format is not made available to the public in that >> format outside the premises of the library or archives in lawful >> possession of such copy"). Use of 108 copies by faculty in classrooms >> is >> NOT public use. >> >> Putting this interpretation into play will, of course, depend on the >> position of legal counsel of individual institutions. >> >> Also: the issue of what constitutes damaged or deteriorated is really >> slippery slope when talking about vhs and other mag media. Basically, >> vhs >> tape begins to deteriorate the minute it's put in a box. >> >> gary handman >> >> >> >> >> >> > I would be stunned it it were PD. I believe in order for it to be PD >> it >> > would could never have been copyrighted in the first place as anything >> > from >> > the last 30 years or so does not require renewal. Do you have link to >> that >> > reference? Also the fact that is NOT out on DVD is kind of sign it is >> NOT >> > PD as one would imagine that if it were some enterprising company >>
