Re: Labeling the reading of notifications on the lock screen

[Mary Otten]

Sent thanks for the thought, Chris. Unfortunately thanks for the thought, 
Chris. Unfortunately, it’s off. I just don’t know what I did different on these 
two phones. But I sure would like to shut off the automatic speaking of 
notifications when they come on the lock screen. I don’t care about getting a 
tone. That’s nice. It tells me there’s something there. But I don’t want it 
just reading out everything. from my iPhone

> On Mar 31, 2024, at 7:52 PM, Chris Chaffin  wrote:
> 
> 
> Do not know if this will help, but try:
> Go to voice over quick settings by doing a two finger quadruple tap.
> Swipe down to system notifications and see if it is on or off.  If on, then 
> double tap to turn it off.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
>> On Mar 31, 2024, at 8:55 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> I know this is possible, because I have it set on my old iPhone 7 Plus to 
>> where in a notification comes and my phone is locked, I get a sound. I don’t 
>> get a bunch of reading. On my newer iPhone which is still old a 10 R, I 
>> can’t find how to make that happen. I don’t want notifications being read 
>> out. I saw something on AppleVis where somebody asked this question. There 
>> didn’t appear to be any answers. It Hass to be doable, because it’s two 
>> different ways on my phone. But I can’t find it. I’ve looked in the 
>> notifications  And Voice and I’m not seeing what I need. Does anybody have 
>> an answer?
>> Mary
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "VIPhone" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/28462DBB-9213-43FE-9B2C-27C988D98C3C%40gmail.com.
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "VIPhone" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/5B454EED-CC60-4031-A231-9B70C7735F4A%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"VIPhone" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/386F8EFD-942A-4AE6-8722-C79B1CB1DEB4%40gmail.com.

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

Hey Christopher, I’m a little bit confused by what you are saying. If Voice
Dream Reader’s developer grandfathered in existing users, didn’t provide us
with any updates, but also didn’t disable our previously purchased
functionality, and just released a new app with the subscription, what do
you mean when you say that wouldn’t be free for them? There wouldn’t be any
additional development, testing or technical support needed for the
previously purchased app, so I can’t imagine what costs they would incur.
Or do you mean the opportunity cost, as in, the lack of revenue from users
who previously bought perpetual licenses and are now being asked to
re-purchase, rent, our licenses again? As for pulling the app from everyone
if the App Store team told them they can’t change the terms for previous
customers, I’m not really sure how that would benefit them or anybody else,
it sounds like a zero-sum solution where everybody loses. I don’t know
exactly how that works either if developers wish to erase something from
everyone’s purchase history but it’s extremely uncommon. I have many
discontinued apps that I can still redownload. I think one thing this has
taught me is the benefits of keeping the app installation files locally on
your computer like we used to in the good ‘ol days. You can use iMazing on
Mac to download these, not sure about Windows but possibly an older version
of iTunes. I feel like there’s some vulnerability in counting on being able
to download the latest versions of apps from the App Store’s purchase
history given this type of situation.


Grant Hardy


On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 4:46 PM Christopher Chaltain 
wrote:

> I didn’t listen to Jonathan Mosen’s interview, but if this is really an
> issue of a sustainable business model then Apple’s guidelines can’t keep a
> developer from just pulling the app altogether. I don’t know what their
> user community looks like, so I don’t know if this is an issue for them or
> not. It does seem to be though that supporting current customers with
> current functionality, as well as future customers with new functionality,
> isn’t going to be free. There will be development, test and maintenance
> costs.
>
>
>
> I’m not saying anyone shouldn’t contact Apple and pursue this, in fact I
> think that’s exactly what people should do. I’ll be interested to see what
> comes of it.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
>
> Chaltain at Outlook, USA
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Grant Hardy
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 31, 2024 3:47 PM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
>
>
>
> Hi Arnold,
>
>
>
> None of these would happen. Nothing that dramatic would occur. What Apple
> could do is simply reject their update and tell them to fix the app so
> functionality isn't taken away from previous customers. The Apple review
> team rejects many new apps and app updates on a regular basis and it's not
> a big deal. Devs just implement the required changes and then they're good
> to go. Alternatively, if the code is already live with the update released
> last week, Apple could pull the app from the store until they fix it,
> especially since the change was undocumented until you installed the update.
>
>
>
> However it's also possible that this will fly under Apple's radar or that
> they'll choose to not act. Even though this clearly doesn't jive with my
> reading of the guidelines, subscription models are all over the place and I
> think a lot of this type of behaviour flies under the radar. The review
> team doesn't catch everything.
>
>
>
> Of course it's also possible I'm simply reading the guidelines incorrectly.
>
> Grant Hardy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 1:38 PM Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
>
> Another thing to wonder about: Suppose Apple investigates and decides that
> their guidelines have been violated. What can Apple do about it that won't
> hurt everybody. They can simply remove VoiceDream from the app store. They
> could sue the developers and end up in court which would probably take
> years to resolve. Apple could issue some update to the IOS which would
> prevent VoiceDream from operating while the issue is resolved.Or, the
> developers could just say, well, to heck with it, we will simply stop
> supporting the thing and go out of business because it isn't worth going to
> court over.  If any of these solutions are acurate, we all would end up
> worse off than if Apple just let it go.
>
>
>
> Arnold Schmidt
>
>
>
> Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3
>
>
> On Mar 31, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Hi Arnold,
>
>
>
> As per your second point, there could still be lots of reasons to get a
> subscription, but they should revolve around new features. The developers
> could release new features on top of the existing app, and if they were
> compelling enough then users would definitely want to subscribe to get
> access to them.
>
>
>
> However, as of my 

Re: Labeling the reading of notifications on the lock screen

[Chris Chaffin]

Do not know if this will help, but try:
Go to voice over quick settings by doing a two finger quadruple tap.
Swipe down to system notifications and see if it is on or off.  If on, then 
double tap to turn it off.

Chris
 

> On Mar 31, 2024, at 8:55 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I know this is possible, because I have it set on my old iPhone 7 Plus to 
> where in a notification comes and my phone is locked, I get a sound. I don’t 
> get a bunch of reading. On my newer iPhone which is still old a 10 R, I can’t 
> find how to make that happen. I don’t want notifications being read out. I 
> saw something on AppleVis where somebody asked this question. There didn’t 
> appear to be any answers. It Hass to be doable, because it’s two different 
> ways on my phone. But I can’t find it. I’ve looked in the notifications  And 
> Voice and I’m not seeing what I need. Does anybody have an answer?
> Mary
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "VIPhone" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/28462DBB-9213-43FE-9B2C-27C988D98C3C%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"VIPhone" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/5B454EED-CC60-4031-A231-9B70C7735F4A%40gmail.com.

Labeling the reading of notifications on the lock screen

[Mary Otten]

I know this is possible, because I have it set on my old iPhone 7 Plus to where 
in a notification comes and my phone is locked, I get a sound. I don’t get a 
bunch of reading. On my newer iPhone which is still old a 10 R, I can’t find 
how to make that happen. I don’t want notifications being read out. I saw 
something on AppleVis where somebody asked this question. There didn’t appear 
to be any answers. It Hass to be doable, because it’s two different ways on my 
phone. But I can’t find it. I’ve looked in the notifications  And Voice and I’m 
not seeing what I need. Does anybody have an answer?
Mary 
Sent from my iPhone

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"VIPhone" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/28462DBB-9213-43FE-9B2C-27C988D98C3C%40gmail.com.

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Christopher Chaltain]

I didn’t listen to Jonathan Mosen’s interview, but if this is really an issue 
of a sustainable business model then Apple’s guidelines can’t keep a developer 
from just pulling the app altogether. I don’t know what their user community 
looks like, so I don’t know if this is an issue for them or not. It does seem 
to be though that supporting current customers with current functionality, as 
well as future customers with new functionality, isn’t going to be free. There 
will be development, test and maintenance costs.

I’m not saying anyone shouldn’t contact Apple and pursue this, in fact I think 
that’s exactly what people should do. I’ll be interested to see what comes of 
it.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 3:47 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

Hi Arnold,

None of these would happen. Nothing that dramatic would occur. What Apple could 
do is simply reject their update and tell them to fix the app so functionality 
isn't taken away from previous customers. The Apple review team rejects many 
new apps and app updates on a regular basis and it's not a big deal. Devs just 
implement the required changes and then they're good to go. Alternatively, if 
the code is already live with the update released last week, Apple could pull 
the app from the store until they fix it, especially since the change was 
undocumented until you installed the update.

However it's also possible that this will fly under Apple's radar or that 
they'll choose to not act. Even though this clearly doesn't jive with my 
reading of the guidelines, subscription models are all over the place and I 
think a lot of this type of behaviour flies under the radar. The review team 
doesn't catch everything.

Of course it's also possible I'm simply reading the guidelines incorrectly.

Grant Hardy


On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 1:38 PM Arnold Schmidt 
mailto:als5...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Another thing to wonder about: Suppose Apple investigates and decides that 
their guidelines have been violated. What can Apple do about it that won't hurt 
everybody. They can simply remove VoiceDream from the app store. They could sue 
the developers and end up in court which would probably take years to resolve. 
Apple could issue some update to the IOS which would prevent VoiceDream from 
operating while the issue is resolved.Or, the developers could just say, well, 
to heck with it, we will simply stop supporting the thing and go out of 
business because it isn't worth going to court over.  If any of these solutions 
are acurate, we all would end up worse off than if Apple just let it go.

Arnold Schmidt

Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3

On Mar 31, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Grant Hardy 
mailto:grantha...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Arnold,

As per your second point, there could still be lots of reasons to get a 
subscription, but they should revolve around new features. The developers could 
release new features on top of the existing app, and if they were compelling 
enough then users would definitely want to subscribe to get access to them.

However, as of my understanding of this app, subscriptions shouldn't charge for 
features already bought with different terms. In my case, those features 
include browsing BookShare, adding and reading content, various voices, and 
scanning documents.

As was pointed out in the podcast posted here a few days ago from Jonathan, 
they could also release a completely new app, charge for it monthly, not update 
the previous app anymore, and we could then use the previous app on the terms 
we agreed upon. The issue is releasing an update that disables features.

Thanks,

Grant Hardy


On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 12:49 PM Grant Hardy 
mailto:grantha...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Cara,

I really appreciate your insight on this and you said it far better than I did.

Ultimately, with all of the controversy surrounding the App Store given 
developments in the EU etc., one thing that everyone usually acknowledges is 
that the App Store operates within certain guidelines, and those have huge 
benefits to both users and developers. Some are more asateric, like "please 
don't modify the status bar or hide system messages etc.". Some are more 
protective, like the one I quoted (e.g. something like "please don't take away 
what users previously bought and try to charge for it again"). What I'm 
throwing out there is that if the App Store is going to be the exclusive place 
where I can get apps, I'd like developers to follow the guidelines so I can get 
the functionality and protections the App Store is designed to offer. And I 
would like a mechanism to report when I believe developers aren’t following 
what they agreed upon.

It's just baffling to me that previous purchases are being intentionally 
disabled and I'm a little taken aback that the arguments on either side haven't 

RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Dennis Long]

I’m 42 I’ll be honest and say I haven’t seen a controversy where it won’t go 
away.  The community is united.  You don’t see that very often.  While I do 
think Voicedream cares I don’t know they truly get how much they have pissed 
off the community.  Again I’ve never seen this as bad as it is now.  The 
question is twofold   1 can Voicedream do enough to get back the blind 
community.
2 can they do enough with the app to be around in another 5 or 10 years.
I will say there are more expensive apps that do less but again I’ve never seen 
the community so united.
 
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Grant 
Hardy
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 4:47 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader
 
Hi Arnold,
 
None of these would happen. Nothing that dramatic would occur. What Apple could 
do is simply reject their update and tell them to fix the app so functionality 
isn't taken away from previous customers. The Apple review team rejects many 
new apps and app updates on a regular basis and it's not a big deal. Devs just 
implement the required changes and then they're good to go. Alternatively, if 
the code is already live with the update released last week, Apple could pull 
the app from the store until they fix it, especially since the change was 
undocumented until you installed the update.
 
However it's also possible that this will fly under Apple's radar or that 
they'll choose to not act. Even though this clearly doesn't jive with my 
reading of the guidelines, subscription models are all over the place and I 
think a lot of this type of behaviour flies under the radar. The review team 
doesn't catch everything.
 
Of course it's also possible I'm simply reading the guidelines incorrectly.


Grant Hardy
 
 
On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 1:38 PM Arnold Schmidt mailto:als5...@gmail.com> > wrote:
Another thing to wonder about: Suppose Apple investigates and decides that 
their guidelines have been violated. What can Apple do about it that won't hurt 
everybody. They can simply remove VoiceDream from the app store. They could sue 
the developers and end up in court which would probably take years to resolve. 
Apple could issue some update to the IOS which would prevent VoiceDream from 
operating while the issue is resolved.Or, the developers could just say, well, 
to heck with it, we will simply stop supporting the thing and go out of 
business because it isn't worth going to court over.  If any of these solutions 
are acurate, we all would end up worse off than if Apple just let it go. 
 
Arnold Schmidt 
 
Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3

On Mar 31, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Grant Hardy mailto:grantha...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Hi Arnold,
 
As per your second point, there could still be lots of reasons to get a 
subscription, but they should revolve around new features. The developers could 
release new features on top of the existing app, and if they were compelling 
enough then users would definitely want to subscribe to get access to them.
 
However, as of my understanding of this app, subscriptions shouldn't charge for 
features already bought with different terms. In my case, those features 
include browsing BookShare, adding and reading content, various voices, and 
scanning documents.
 
As was pointed out in the podcast posted here a few days ago from Jonathan, 
they could also release a completely new app, charge for it monthly, not update 
the previous app anymore, and we could then use the previous app on the terms 
we agreed upon. The issue is releasing an update that disables features. 
 
Thanks,


Grant Hardy
 
 
On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 12:49 PM Grant Hardy mailto:grantha...@gmail.com> > wrote:
Hi Cara,
 
I really appreciate your insight on this and you said it far better than I did.
 
Ultimately, with all of the controversy surrounding the App Store given 
developments in the EU etc., one thing that everyone usually acknowledges is 
that the App Store operates within certain guidelines, and those have huge 
benefits to both users and developers. Some are more asateric, like "please 
don't modify the status bar or hide system messages etc.". Some are more 
protective, like the one I quoted (e.g. something like "please don't take away 
what users previously bought and try to charge for it again"). What I'm 
throwing out there is that if the App Store is going to be the exclusive place 
where I can get apps, I'd like developers to follow the guidelines so I can get 
the functionality and protections the App Store is designed to offer. And I 
would like a mechanism to report when I believe developers aren’t following 
what they agreed upon.
 
It's just baffling to me that previous purchases are being intentionally 
disabled and I'm a little taken aback that the arguments on either side haven't 
addressed this. If you know of any way to report this to Apple and get a 
response, I'd certainly love to hear it.
 
I know that this app is used in many 

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Cara Quinn]

Grant, I would honestly write acccessibil...@apple.com 
, if nothing else, to ask for an appropriate 
address to direct this question to.

While this is absolutely not what I would prefer, this issue kind of lives on 
the fringes, because this isn’t just an ordinary situation where a customer 
just isn’t happy with an app. It’s a bigger issue for this community, but it’s 
also not strictly an issue of accessibility either. So it’s not my favorite 
suggestion. I just can’t think of a better address to write to, where a 
question like this will actually be seen and responded to.

Just my thoughts, and perhaps someone else may know of a much better way of 
pursuing an answer.

Cheers!

Cara



> On Mar 31, 2024, at 1:49 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
> 
> Hi Cara,
> 
> I really appreciate your insight on this and you said it far better than I 
> did.
> 
> Ultimately, with all of the controversy surrounding the App Store given 
> developments in the EU etc., one thing that everyone usually acknowledges is 
> that the App Store operates within certain guidelines, and those have huge 
> benefits to both users and developers. Some are more asateric, like "please 
> don't modify the status bar or hide system messages etc.". Some are more 
> protective, like the one I quoted (e.g. something like "please don't take 
> away what users previously bought and try to charge for it again"). What I'm 
> throwing out there is that if the App Store is going to be the exclusive 
> place where I can get apps, I'd like developers to follow the guidelines so I 
> can get the functionality and protections the App Store is designed to offer. 
> And I would like a mechanism to report when I believe developers aren’t 
> following what they agreed upon.
> 
> It's just baffling to me that previous purchases are being intentionally 
> disabled and I'm a little taken aback that the arguments on either side 
> haven't addressed this. If you know of any way to report this to Apple and 
> get a response, I'd certainly love to hear it.
> 
> I know that this app is used in many schools and universities where money is 
> tight, and while new users have had subscriptions for a few years, it's 
> possible that a high school or university student is still in the system with 
> a perpetual license. What this means is that their app might be disabled 
> around exam time in the school year, possibly without much notice. I can 
> personally attest that the banner was not noticeable to me as a VO user and I 
> only learned about it based on this list. I'm concerned this could impact the 
> very demographics who are best served by this app. But more to the point, I'm 
> questioning whether we truly are getting the protections we thought we were 
> getting by buying from the App Store. When I switched to Apple Music I kept 
> all the songs I'd bought outright, and even if I canceled it I would still 
> keep those songs. This would be like having all my previous purchases taken 
> away as of a certain date.
> 
> 
> 
> Grant Hardy
> 
> 
> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 9:06 AM Cara Quinn  > wrote:
>> Hi Richard and All,
>> 
>> Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any opinions 
>> here on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no horse in 
>> this race. :)
>> 
>> Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is saying. 
>> One important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks to add to 
>> their library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased functionality is 
>> being removed.
>> 
>> Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not 
>> legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to 
>> complain, but to simply ask for clarification on this situation.
>> 
>> As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I want and 
>> still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for.
>> 
>> If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more expensive 
>> lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn around a couple 
>> of months later and tell all owners of the app that they all need to move to 
>> the subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that can be seen as a form 
>> of contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of course, and please, 
>> by all means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
>> 
>> I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period than 
>> my example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after three 
>> months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of 
>> whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What 
>> about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What 
>> time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter?
>> 
>> In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem to 
>> address this. So I would 

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Cara Quinn]

Ah, now it’s your turn, Grant! lol! You sent a better and much more detailed 
response than I did.

Nicely done. Well said. :)

Cheers!

Cara



> On Mar 31, 2024, at 2:47 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
> 
> Hi Arnold,
> 
> None of these would happen. Nothing that dramatic would occur. What Apple 
> could do is simply reject their update and tell them to fix the app so 
> functionality isn't taken away from previous customers. The Apple review team 
> rejects many new apps and app updates on a regular basis and it's not a big 
> deal. Devs just implement the required changes and then they're good to go. 
> Alternatively, if the code is already live with the update released last 
> week, Apple could pull the app from the store until they fix it, especially 
> since the change was undocumented until you installed the update.
> 
> However it's also possible that this will fly under Apple's radar or that 
> they'll choose to not act. Even though this clearly doesn't jive with my 
> reading of the guidelines, subscription models are all over the place and I 
> think a lot of this type of behaviour flies under the radar. The review team 
> doesn't catch everything.
> 
> Of course it's also possible I'm simply reading the guidelines incorrectly.
> 
> Grant Hardy
> 
> 
> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 1:38 PM Arnold Schmidt  > wrote:
>> Another thing to wonder about: Suppose Apple investigates and decides that 
>> their guidelines have been violated. What can Apple do about it that won't 
>> hurt everybody. They can simply remove VoiceDream from the app store. They 
>> could sue the developers and end up in court which would probably take years 
>> to resolve. Apple could issue some update to the IOS which would prevent 
>> VoiceDream from operating while the issue is resolved.Or, the developers 
>> could just say, well, to heck with it, we will simply stop supporting the 
>> thing and go out of business because it isn't worth going to court over.  If 
>> any of these solutions are acurate, we all would end up worse off than if 
>> Apple just let it go. 
>> 
>> Arnold Schmidt 
>> 
>> Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3
>> 
>> On Mar 31, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Grant Hardy > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Arnold,
>> 
>> As per your second point, there could still be lots of reasons to get a 
>> subscription, but they should revolve around new features. The developers 
>> could release new features on top of the existing app, and if they were 
>> compelling enough then users would definitely want to subscribe to get 
>> access to them.
>> 
>> However, as of my understanding of this app, subscriptions shouldn't charge 
>> for features already bought with different terms. In my case, those features 
>> include browsing BookShare, adding and reading content, various voices, and 
>> scanning documents.
>> 
>> As was pointed out in the podcast posted here a few days ago from Jonathan, 
>> they could also release a completely new app, charge for it monthly, not 
>> update the previous app anymore, and we could then use the previous app on 
>> the terms we agreed upon. The issue is releasing an update that disables 
>> features. 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Grant Hardy
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 12:49 PM Grant Hardy > > wrote:
>>> Hi Cara,
>>> 
>>> I really appreciate your insight on this and you said it far better than I 
>>> did.
>>> 
>>> Ultimately, with all of the controversy surrounding the App Store given 
>>> developments in the EU etc., one thing that everyone usually acknowledges 
>>> is that the App Store operates within certain guidelines, and those have 
>>> huge benefits to both users and developers. Some are more asateric, like 
>>> "please don't modify the status bar or hide system messages etc.". Some are 
>>> more protective, like the one I quoted (e.g. something like "please don't 
>>> take away what users previously bought and try to charge for it again"). 
>>> What I'm throwing out there is that if the App Store is going to be the 
>>> exclusive place where I can get apps, I'd like developers to follow the 
>>> guidelines so I can get the functionality and protections the App Store is 
>>> designed to offer. And I would like a mechanism to report when I believe 
>>> developers aren’t following what they agreed upon.
>>> 
>>> It's just baffling to me that previous purchases are being intentionally 
>>> disabled and I'm a little taken aback that the arguments on either side 
>>> haven't addressed this. If you know of any way to report this to Apple and 
>>> get a response, I'd certainly love to hear it.
>>> 
>>> I know that this app is used in many schools and universities where money 
>>> is tight, and while new users have had subscriptions for a few years, it's 
>>> possible that a high school or university student is still in the system 
>>> with a perpetual license. What this means is that their app might be 
>>> disabled around exam time in 

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

Hi Arnold,

None of these would happen. Nothing that dramatic would occur. What Apple
could do is simply reject their update and tell them to fix the app so
functionality isn't taken away from previous customers. The Apple review
team rejects many new apps and app updates on a regular basis and it's not
a big deal. Devs just implement the required changes and then they're good
to go. Alternatively, if the code is already live with the update released
last week, Apple could pull the app from the store until they fix it,
especially since the change was undocumented until you installed the update.

However it's also possible that this will fly under Apple's radar or that
they'll choose to not act. Even though this clearly doesn't jive with my
reading of the guidelines, subscription models are all over the place and I
think a lot of this type of behaviour flies under the radar. The review
team doesn't catch everything.

Of course it's also possible I'm simply reading the guidelines incorrectly.

Grant Hardy


On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 1:38 PM Arnold Schmidt  wrote:

> Another thing to wonder about: Suppose Apple investigates and decides that
> their guidelines have been violated. What can Apple do about it that won't
> hurt everybody. They can simply remove VoiceDream from the app store. They
> could sue the developers and end up in court which would probably take
> years to resolve. Apple could issue some update to the IOS which would
> prevent VoiceDream from operating while the issue is resolved.Or, the
> developers could just say, well, to heck with it, we will simply stop
> supporting the thing and go out of business because it isn't worth going to
> court over.  If any of these solutions are acurate, we all would end up
> worse off than if Apple just let it go.
>
> Arnold Schmidt
>
> Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3
>
> On Mar 31, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
>
> 
> Hi Arnold,
>
> As per your second point, there could still be lots of reasons to get a
> subscription, but they should revolve around new features. The developers
> could release new features on top of the existing app, and if they were
> compelling enough then users would definitely want to subscribe to get
> access to them.
>
> However, as of my understanding of this app, subscriptions shouldn't
> charge for features already bought with different terms. In my case, those
> features include browsing BookShare, adding and reading content, various
> voices, and scanning documents.
>
> As was pointed out in the podcast posted here a few days ago from
> Jonathan, they could also release a completely new app, charge for it
> monthly, not update the previous app anymore, and we could then use the
> previous app on the terms we agreed upon. The issue is releasing an update
> that disables features.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Grant Hardy
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 12:49 PM Grant Hardy  wrote:
>
>> Hi Cara,
>>
>> I really appreciate your insight on this and you said it far better than
>> I did.
>>
>> Ultimately, with all of the controversy surrounding the App Store given
>> developments in the EU etc., one thing that everyone usually acknowledges
>> is that the App Store operates within certain guidelines, and those have
>> huge benefits to both users and developers. Some are more asateric, like
>> "please don't modify the status bar or hide system messages etc.". Some are
>> more protective, like the one I quoted (e.g. something like "please don't
>> take away what users previously bought and try to charge for it again").
>> What I'm throwing out there is that if the App Store is going to be the
>> exclusive place where I can get apps, I'd like developers to follow the
>> guidelines so I can get the functionality and protections the App Store is
>> designed to offer. And I would like a mechanism to report when I believe
>> developers aren’t following what they agreed upon.
>>
>> It's just baffling to me that previous purchases are being intentionally
>> disabled and I'm a little taken aback that the arguments on either side
>> haven't addressed this. If you know of any way to report this to Apple and
>> get a response, I'd certainly love to hear it.
>>
>> I know that this app is used in many schools and universities where money
>> is tight, and while new users have had subscriptions for a few years, it's
>> possible that a high school or university student is still in the system
>> with a perpetual license. What this means is that their app might be
>> disabled around exam time in the school year, possibly without much notice.
>> I can personally attest that the banner was not noticeable to me as a VO
>> user and I only learned about it based on this list. I'm concerned this
>> could impact the very demographics who are best served by this app. But
>> more to the point, I'm questioning whether we truly are getting the
>> protections we thought we were getting by buying from the App Store. When I
>> switched to Apple Music I kept all the songs I'd 

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Cara Quinn]

in the case you mention, most likely, all that Apple would do would be to tell 
the dev team to honor the original terms of the sale for those who purchased a 
perpetual license. That’s all.

It’s really not that big of an issue. Fortunately, it’s very easy to address. :)

Have a lovely afternoon!

Cheers!

Cara



> On Mar 31, 2024, at 2:37 PM, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> Another thing to wonder about: Suppose Apple investigates and decides that 
> their guidelines have been violated. What can Apple do about it that won't 
> hurt everybody. They can simply remove VoiceDream from the app store. They 
> could sue the developers and end up in court which would probably take years 
> to resolve. Apple could issue some update to the IOS which would prevent 
> VoiceDream from operating while the issue is resolved.Or, the developers 
> could just say, well, to heck with it, we will simply stop supporting the 
> thing and go out of business because it isn't worth going to court over.  If 
> any of these solutions are acurate, we all would end up worse off than if 
> Apple just let it go. 
> 
> Arnold Schmidt 
> 
> Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3
> 
> On Mar 31, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Arnold,
> 
> As per your second point, there could still be lots of reasons to get a 
> subscription, but they should revolve around new features. The developers 
> could release new features on top of the existing app, and if they were 
> compelling enough then users would definitely want to subscribe to get access 
> to them.
> 
> However, as of my understanding of this app, subscriptions shouldn't charge 
> for features already bought with different terms. In my case, those features 
> include browsing BookShare, adding and reading content, various voices, and 
> scanning documents.
> 
> As was pointed out in the podcast posted here a few days ago from Jonathan, 
> they could also release a completely new app, charge for it monthly, not 
> update the previous app anymore, and we could then use the previous app on 
> the terms we agreed upon. The issue is releasing an update that disables 
> features. 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Grant Hardy
> 
> 
> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 12:49 PM Grant Hardy  > wrote:
>> Hi Cara,
>> 
>> I really appreciate your insight on this and you said it far better than I 
>> did.
>> 
>> Ultimately, with all of the controversy surrounding the App Store given 
>> developments in the EU etc., one thing that everyone usually acknowledges is 
>> that the App Store operates within certain guidelines, and those have huge 
>> benefits to both users and developers. Some are more asateric, like "please 
>> don't modify the status bar or hide system messages etc.". Some are more 
>> protective, like the one I quoted (e.g. something like "please don't take 
>> away what users previously bought and try to charge for it again"). What I'm 
>> throwing out there is that if the App Store is going to be the exclusive 
>> place where I can get apps, I'd like developers to follow the guidelines so 
>> I can get the functionality and protections the App Store is designed to 
>> offer. And I would like a mechanism to report when I believe developers 
>> aren’t following what they agreed upon.
>> 
>> It's just baffling to me that previous purchases are being intentionally 
>> disabled and I'm a little taken aback that the arguments on either side 
>> haven't addressed this. If you know of any way to report this to Apple and 
>> get a response, I'd certainly love to hear it.
>> 
>> I know that this app is used in many schools and universities where money is 
>> tight, and while new users have had subscriptions for a few years, it's 
>> possible that a high school or university student is still in the system 
>> with a perpetual license. What this means is that their app might be 
>> disabled around exam time in the school year, possibly without much notice. 
>> I can personally attest that the banner was not noticeable to me as a VO 
>> user and I only learned about it based on this list. I'm concerned this 
>> could impact the very demographics who are best served by this app. But more 
>> to the point, I'm questioning whether we truly are getting the protections 
>> we thought we were getting by buying from the App Store. When I switched to 
>> Apple Music I kept all the songs I'd bought outright, and even if I canceled 
>> it I would still keep those songs. This would be like having all my previous 
>> purchases taken away as of a certain date.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Grant Hardy
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 9:06 AM Cara Quinn > > wrote:
>>> Hi Richard and All,
>>> 
>>> Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any opinions 
>>> here on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no horse in 
>>> this race. :)
>>> 
>>> Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is saying. 
>>> One important aspect of this 

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Arnold Schmidt]

Another thing to wonder about: Suppose Apple investigates and decides that their guidelines have been violated. What can Apple do about it that won't hurt everybody. They can simply remove VoiceDream from the app store. They could sue the developers and end up in court which would probably take years to resolve. Apple could issue some update to the IOS which would prevent VoiceDream from operating while the issue is resolved.Or, the developers could just say, well, to heck with it, we will simply stop supporting the thing and go out of business because it isn't worth going to court over.  If any of these solutions are acurate, we all would end up worse off than if Apple just let it go. Arnold Schmidt Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3On Mar 31, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:Hi Arnold,As per your second point, there could still be lots of reasons to get a subscription, but they should revolve around new features. The developers could release new features on top of the existing app, and if they were compelling enough then users would definitely want to subscribe to get access to them.However, as of my understanding of this app, subscriptions shouldn't charge for features already bought with different terms. In my case, those features include browsing BookShare, adding and reading content, various voices, and scanning documents.As was pointed out in the podcast posted here a few days ago from Jonathan, they could also release a completely new app, charge for it monthly, not update the previous app anymore, and we could then use the previous app on the terms we agreed upon. The issue is releasing an update that disables features. Thanks,Grant HardyOn Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 12:49 PM Grant Hardy  wrote:Hi Cara,I really appreciate your insight on this and you said it far better than I did.Ultimately, with all of the controversy surrounding the App Store given developments in the EU etc., one thing that everyone usually acknowledges is that the App Store operates within certain guidelines, and those have huge benefits to both users and developers. Some are more asateric, like "please don't modify the status bar or hide system messages etc.". Some are more protective, like the one I quoted (e.g. something like "please don't take away what users previously bought and try to charge for it again"). What I'm throwing out there is that if the App Store is going to be the exclusive place where I can get apps, I'd like developers to follow the guidelines so I can get the functionality and protections the App Store is designed to offer. And I would like a mechanism to report when I believe developers aren’t following what they agreed upon.It's just baffling to me that previous purchases are being intentionally disabled and I'm a little taken aback that the arguments on either side haven't addressed this. If you know of any way to report this to Apple and get a response, I'd certainly love to hear it.I know that this app is used in many schools and universities where money is tight, and while new users have had subscriptions for a few years, it's possible that a high school or university student is still in the system with a perpetual license. What this means is that their app might be disabled around exam time in the school year, possibly without much notice. I can personally attest that the banner was not noticeable to me as a VO user and I only learned about it based on this list. I'm concerned this could impact the very demographics who are best served by this app. But more to the point, I'm questioning whether we truly are getting the protections we thought we were getting by buying from the App Store. When I switched to Apple Music I kept all the songs I'd bought outright, and even if I canceled it I would still keep those songs. This would be like having all my previous purchases taken away as of a certain date.Grant HardyOn Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 9:06 AM Cara Quinn  wrote:Hi Richard and All,Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any opinions here on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no horse in this race. :)Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is saying. One important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks to add to their library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased functionality is being removed.Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to complain, but to simply ask for clarification on this situation.As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I want and still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for.If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more expensive lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn around a couple of months later and tell all owners of the app that they all need to move to the subscription? When someone 

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

Hi Arnold,

As per your second point, there could still be lots of reasons to get a
subscription, but they should revolve around new features. The developers
could release new features on top of the existing app, and if they were
compelling enough then users would definitely want to subscribe to get
access to them.

However, as of my understanding of this app, subscriptions shouldn't charge
for features already bought with different terms. In my case, those
features include browsing BookShare, adding and reading content, various
voices, and scanning documents.

As was pointed out in the podcast posted here a few days ago from Jonathan,
they could also release a completely new app, charge for it monthly, not
update the previous app anymore, and we could then use the previous app on
the terms we agreed upon. The issue is releasing an update that disables
features.

Thanks,

Grant Hardy


On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 12:49 PM Grant Hardy  wrote:

> Hi Cara,
>
> I really appreciate your insight on this and you said it far better than I
> did.
>
> Ultimately, with all of the controversy surrounding the App Store given
> developments in the EU etc., one thing that everyone usually acknowledges
> is that the App Store operates within certain guidelines, and those have
> huge benefits to both users and developers. Some are more asateric, like
> "please don't modify the status bar or hide system messages etc.". Some are
> more protective, like the one I quoted (e.g. something like "please don't
> take away what users previously bought and try to charge for it again").
> What I'm throwing out there is that if the App Store is going to be the
> exclusive place where I can get apps, I'd like developers to follow the
> guidelines so I can get the functionality and protections the App Store is
> designed to offer. And I would like a mechanism to report when I believe
> developers aren’t following what they agreed upon.
>
> It's just baffling to me that previous purchases are being intentionally
> disabled and I'm a little taken aback that the arguments on either side
> haven't addressed this. If you know of any way to report this to Apple and
> get a response, I'd certainly love to hear it.
>
> I know that this app is used in many schools and universities where money
> is tight, and while new users have had subscriptions for a few years, it's
> possible that a high school or university student is still in the system
> with a perpetual license. What this means is that their app might be
> disabled around exam time in the school year, possibly without much notice.
> I can personally attest that the banner was not noticeable to me as a VO
> user and I only learned about it based on this list. I'm concerned this
> could impact the very demographics who are best served by this app. But
> more to the point, I'm questioning whether we truly are getting the
> protections we thought we were getting by buying from the App Store. When I
> switched to Apple Music I kept all the songs I'd bought outright, and even
> if I canceled it I would still keep those songs. This would be like having
> all my previous purchases taken away as of a certain date.
>
>
>
> Grant Hardy
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 9:06 AM Cara Quinn  wrote:
>
>> Hi Richard and All,
>>
>> Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any
>> opinions here on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no
>> horse in this race. :)
>>
>> Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is
>> saying. One important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks
>> to add to their library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased
>> functionality is being removed.
>>
>> Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not
>> legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to
>> complain, but to simply ask for clarification on this situation.
>>
>> As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I want
>> and still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for.
>>
>> If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more
>> expensive lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn around
>> a couple of months later and tell all owners of the app that they all need
>> to move to the subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that can be
>> seen as a form of contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of
>> course, and please, by all means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
>>
>> I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period
>> than my example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after
>> three months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of
>> whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What
>> about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What
>> time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter?
>>
>> In any case, there is a 

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Grant Hardy]

Hi Cara,

I really appreciate your insight on this and you said it far better than I
did.

Ultimately, with all of the controversy surrounding the App Store given
developments in the EU etc., one thing that everyone usually acknowledges
is that the App Store operates within certain guidelines, and those have
huge benefits to both users and developers. Some are more asateric, like
"please don't modify the status bar or hide system messages etc.". Some are
more protective, like the one I quoted (e.g. something like "please don't
take away what users previously bought and try to charge for it again").
What I'm throwing out there is that if the App Store is going to be the
exclusive place where I can get apps, I'd like developers to follow the
guidelines so I can get the functionality and protections the App Store is
designed to offer. And I would like a mechanism to report when I believe
developers aren’t following what they agreed upon.

It's just baffling to me that previous purchases are being intentionally
disabled and I'm a little taken aback that the arguments on either side
haven't addressed this. If you know of any way to report this to Apple and
get a response, I'd certainly love to hear it.

I know that this app is used in many schools and universities where money
is tight, and while new users have had subscriptions for a few years, it's
possible that a high school or university student is still in the system
with a perpetual license. What this means is that their app might be
disabled around exam time in the school year, possibly without much notice.
I can personally attest that the banner was not noticeable to me as a VO
user and I only learned about it based on this list. I'm concerned this
could impact the very demographics who are best served by this app. But
more to the point, I'm questioning whether we truly are getting the
protections we thought we were getting by buying from the App Store. When I
switched to Apple Music I kept all the songs I'd bought outright, and even
if I canceled it I would still keep those songs. This would be like having
all my previous purchases taken away as of a certain date.



Grant Hardy


On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 9:06 AM Cara Quinn  wrote:

> Hi Richard and All,
>
> Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any opinions
> here on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no horse in
> this race. :)
>
> Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is
> saying. One important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks
> to add to their library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased
> functionality is being removed.
>
> Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not
> legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to
> complain, but to simply ask for clarification on this situation.
>
> As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I want
> and still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for.
>
> If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more
> expensive lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn around
> a couple of months later and tell all owners of the app that they all need
> to move to the subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that can be
> seen as a form of contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of
> course, and please, by all means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
>
> I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period
> than my example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after
> three months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of
> whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What
> about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What
> time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter?
>
> In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem to
> address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on
> this.
>
> Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this
> situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the
> Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work!
>
> Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :)
>
> Cara
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner 
> wrote:
>
> If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st, you
> will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby, you
> will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy with
> purchasing a game.
>
> Richard, USA
> “Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God
> stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to
> get it.”
> -- Cedrick Bridgeforth
>
>
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com/
>
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
>
> 
> Hey Richard,
>
> I absolutely 

RE: remind me how to extend the time before my iPhone goes into standby

[Rob Armstrong]

Go to Settings > Display and Brightness.

 

The Auto-Lock setting is on the second page.  When you reach the Auto-Lock 
setting, it will display the current value.  Double-tap to reveal the options.  
The choices are: 30 seconds, 1 minute, 2 minutes, 3 minutes, 4 minutes, 5 
minutes, and Never.

 

Rob

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of CJ & AA 
MAY
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 1:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Cc: 'Cara Quinn' 
Subject: RE: remind me how to extend the time before my iPhone goes into standby

 

I have gone through settings and can’t find how to extend the time before my 
iphone goes into standby. 

Alison

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
 
If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: 
mk...@ucla.edu  . Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com  
 
The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"VIPhone" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
 .
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/004e01da8392%2405347a00%240f9d6e00%24%40gmail.com
 

 .

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"VIPhone" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/000401da8397%243e5be0c0%24bb13a240%24%40mindspring.com.

RE: remind me how to extend the time before my iPhone goes into standby

[CJ & AA MAY]

I have gone through settings and can’t find how to extend the time before my 
iphone goes into standby. 

Alison

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"VIPhone" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/004e01da8392%2405347a00%240f9d6e00%24%40gmail.com.

RE: Phone update question

[Rob Armstrong]

You should first take a backup of your current system just to be safe.  You can 
back up to iCloud.  But the better approach is to take an encrypted backup to a 
Windows computer or a Mac.  I have never had to restore from a backup, but I 
always take a backup before a major update to a new release.

You should probably have your phone plugged into the battery charger while 
doing the update.  Start the update when you are getting ready to go to bed.  
You will have to enter the pass code to begin the update.  After you enter the 
pass code, the update will happen without you having to do anything.

When I did the update a few weeks ago, an error occurred during the download of 
the new version.  There was an option to retry.  After I double tapped Retry, 
the update downloaded and installed without any more problem.

When the update finishes, it automatically shuts down and restarts the phone.  
It will be on the home screen.

Rob

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Duane 
Steele
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2024 1:02 PM
To: IPhone List 
Subject: Phone update question



I'm one of those people who update their phones later than most. This morning, 
I wanted to download an APP and discovered I'd have to have the latest version. 
Good reason to update from iOS 16. Is there a way to do this by having it 
happen overnight, instead of putting my phone out of commission during the day 
while the update is being installed? Thanks for any suggestions.





+Peace & Blessings,
Pastor Duane L. Steele
Phone (276) 730-5194

+Peace & Blessings,
Pastor Duane L. Steele
Phone (276) 730-5194

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"VIPhone" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/BE6F7217-3D9C-4ACA-B898-0CDEFEF64255%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"VIPhone" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/000101da8391%24806db160%2481491420%24%40mindspring.com.

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Arnold Schmidt]

Two things. If we choose to contact Apple about this situation, is there an appropriate address to use, or just feedb...@apple.com? And if Apple says the voicedream people  can't stop users from uploading new content to the current Voicedream one would have to admit that there would be little, if any reason for  those who already have the app to buy a subscription. About all the voicedream people could do is to release a new app so that a user would have to subscribe to get any future updates. The old one would no longer be supported, and would work as long as it does. Arnold Schmidt P.S. I fell for it and subscribed earlier today through the app store.  I thought that at least something would change after my subscribing,  but so far, there is absolutely no difference in voicedream before and after, at least that I can find.Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 3On Mar 31, 2024, at 12:06 PM, Cara Quinn  wrote:Hi Richard and All,Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any opinions here on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no horse in this race. :)Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is saying. One important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks to add to their library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased functionality is being removed.Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to complain, but to simply ask for clarification on this situation.As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I want and still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for.If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more expensive lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn around a couple of months later and tell all owners of the app that they all need to move to the subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that can be seen as a form of contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of course, and please, by all means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period than my example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after three months or so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of whether they had already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What about if I did this after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What time frame is appropriate? Does time frame matter?In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem to address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on this.Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work!Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :)CaraOn Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner  wrote:If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st, you will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby, you will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy with purchasing a game. Richard, USA“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”-- Cedrick Bridgeforth My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:Hey Richard,I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are tricky.However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states:If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you introduce a subscription model for new customers.This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept the functionality they previously paid for.In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the quoted Apple Developer review guideline states that this shouldn't occur.I don't have any concerns about charging a subscription for new users, or charging existing users for updates. But I haven't ever heard of an app that is disabling previously purchased functionality from working at all. Regardless of the PR that this generates, I'm a little unclear how this is in accordance with the Developer Guidelines as quoted above.If it is, I am curious then if it would be reasonable to expect every app purchase we've made on iOS to be disabled then at some point. I'm not talking about apps not being developed anymore and 

Phone update question

[Duane Steele]

I'm one of those people who update their phones later than most. This morning, 
I wanted to download an APP and discovered I'd have to have the latest version. 
Good reason to update from iOS 16. Is there a way to do this by having it 
happen overnight, instead of putting my phone out of commission during the day 
while the update is being installed? Thanks for any suggestions.





+Peace & Blessings,
Pastor Duane L. Steele
Phone (276) 730-5194

+Peace & Blessings,
Pastor Duane L. Steele
Phone (276) 730-5194

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"VIPhone" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/BE6F7217-3D9C-4ACA-B898-0CDEFEF64255%40gmail.com.

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Cara Quinn]

Hi Richard and All,

Let me state right out front that I am absolutely not sharing any opinions here 
on this issue. I’m not really a user of the app so have no horse in this race. 
:)

Having said that though, this doesn’t really fit with what Grant is saying. One 
important aspect of this app’s functionality is to allow folks to add to their 
library. So in this case, yes, previously purchased functionality is being 
removed.

Also, even though the dev guidelines are guidelines, and thus not 
legally-binding, I would absolutely consider contacting Apple, not to complain, 
but to simply ask for clarification on this situation.

As a developer on the App Store, myself, I can’t just do whatever I want and 
still be on the store. That is what the guidelines are for.

If I released an app, and offered a subscription along with a more expensive 
lifetime purchase option, should I then be allowed to turn around a couple of 
months later and tell all owners of the app that they all need to move to the 
subscription? When someone makes a purchase, that can be seen as a form of 
contract. This is obviously subject to specifics, of course, and please, by all 
means, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

I know that the Voice Dream situation has happened over a longer period than my 
example above, but in my example, just say that I decided after three months or 
so to begin charging everyone a subscription, regardless of whether they had 
already purchased the app. Would this be appropriate? What about if I did this 
after a month? What about six months? -or a year? What time frame is 
appropriate? Does time frame matter?

In any case, there is a guideline (which Grant quoted) which does seem to 
address this. So I would be curious here to see what Apple has to say on this.

Regardless, I hope there can be a good and appropriate outcome to this 
situation which honors the money that folks have spent and also allows the 
Voice Dream team to continue their excellent work!

Cheers and Happy Easter to those who celebrate! :)

Cara




> On Mar 31, 2024, at 6:26 AM, Richard Turner  
> wrote:
> 
> If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st, you 
> will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby, you 
> will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy with 
> purchasing a game. 
> 
> Richard, USA
> “Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores 
> it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”
> -- Cedrick Bridgeforth
>  
> My web site: https://www.turner42.com/
>  
> 
> 
>> On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hey Richard,
>> 
>> I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are tricky.
>> 
>> However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states:
>> 
>> If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business 
>> model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users 
>> have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already purchased 
>> a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you introduce a 
>> subscription model for new customers.
>> 
>> 
>> This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a 
>> subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept the 
>> functionality they previously paid for.
>> 
>> In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any 
>> purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be 
>> disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the 
>> quoted Apple Developer review guideline states that this shouldn't occur.
>> 
>> I don't have any concerns about charging a subscription for new users, or 
>> charging existing users for updates. But I haven't ever heard of an app that 
>> is disabling previously purchased functionality from working at all. 
>> Regardless of the PR that this generates, I'm a little unclear how this is 
>> in accordance with the Developer Guidelines as quoted above.
>> 
>> If it is, I am curious then if it would be reasonable to expect every app 
>> purchase we've made on iOS to be disabled then at some point. I'm not 
>> talking about apps not being developed anymore and possibly not working 
>> anymore given an update to iOS etc.. I am talking about code that 
>> specifically tells the app not to recognize your previously purchased 
>> license.
>> 
>> just some food for thought. Again, I am absolutely sympathetic to the new 
>> owners of Voice Dream Reader, but I don't think disabling previous purchases 
>> is the appropriate solution. At the moment, I'm working on transitioning my 
>> audio content to Downcast. Haven't decided what to do about my text content 
>> yet.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> Grant Hardy
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 6:01 PM Richard Turner > > wrote:
>>> I took Dennis’s advice and made a 

Re: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader

[Richard Turner]

If you listen to Jonathan's podcast you will learn that after May 1st, you will still be able to access everything in your library. Apparentbby, you will not be able to add to the library. I think that fits your analogy with purchasing a game. Richard, USA“Grandma always told us, “Be careful when you pray for patience. God stores it on the other side of Hell and you will have to go through Hell to get it.”-- Cedrick Bridgeforth My web site: https://www.turner42.com/ On Mar 30, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Grant Hardy  wrote:Hey Richard,I absolutely appreciate that the economics of maintaining an app are tricky.However, Apple Developer guideline 3.1.2 clearly states:If you are changing your existing app to a subscription-based business model, you should not take away the primary functionality existing users have already paid for. For example, let customers who have already purchased a “full game unlock” continue to access the full game after you introduce a subscription model for new customers.This is why, for example, when the Weather Gods app converted to a subscription, existing users (those who already paid for the app) kept the functionality they previously paid for.In this case, it seems like all our purchases (Voice Dream Reader, any purchased voices, Voice Dream Scanner, etc.) are simply going to be disabled. I do have some concerns with that, because it seems like the quoted Apple Developer review guideline states that this shouldn't occur.I don't have any concerns about charging a subscription for new users, or charging existing users for updates. But I haven't ever heard of an app that is disabling previously purchased functionality from working at all. Regardless of the PR that this generates, I'm a little unclear how this is in accordance with the Developer Guidelines as quoted above.If it is, I am curious then if it would be reasonable to expect every app purchase we've made on iOS to be disabled then at some point. I'm not talking about apps not being developed anymore and possibly not working anymore given an update to iOS etc.. I am talking about code that specifically tells the app not to recognize your previously purchased license.just some food for thought. Again, I am absolutely sympathetic to the new owners of Voice Dream Reader, but I don't think disabling previous purchases is the appropriate solution. At the moment, I'm working on transitioning my audio content to Downcast. Haven't decided what to do about my text content yet.Thank you,Grant HardyOn Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 6:01 PM Richard Turner  wrote:I took Dennis’s advice and made a donation to listen to Jonathan interviewing Kishin Manglani from the Applause Group.It is very much worth listening to.  It is fairly long, but it is very clear that they care very much about their customers and are doing their best to provide a quality product and adding new features. The one thing I noticed if you go into the Voice Dream Reader app and double tap on settings, then on subscription, it brings up the post titled Pricing Changes for One-Time Purchasers.As you read through that, when you get to the line that says, try the 14 day trial or something like that, it doesn’t say it is a link or button, but if you double tap on that, it takes you to the app store where you can choose to subscribe and get 2 weeks free if you were a one-time purchaser.  I don’t know what you get if you are a new subscriber. But signing up this way keeps it fairly simple and familiar since it is within the app store.The difference from subscribing through the link through a service that seems to be called Stripe or something; whatever Jonathan said, the Applause Group gets a higher cut of the payment than if you go through the app store.I don’t know if people realize, that whatever price you pay for an app through the app store, Apple gets a pretty big cut.  I think 20 or 30 percent and the developer gets the rest. IN any case, I’ve signed up through the app store. They will be offering a monthly option in the not too distant future. HTH, Richard, USA"It's no great honor to be blind, but it's more than a nuisance and less than a disaster. Either you're going to fight like hell when your sight fails or you're going to stand on the sidelines for the rest of your life." -- Dr. Margaret Rockwell Phanstiehl Founder of Audio Description (1932-2009) My web site: https://www.turner42.com From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Dennis LongSent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 11:47 AMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: RE: Please submit feedback to Apple about Voice Dream Reader You can subscribe to livingly blindfully plus for just 60 American cents and get access today or wait 3 days.  I strongly encourage you to listen to it.  I do think the Voicedream team does care and value our feedback. From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Michael IronsSent: Saturday, March 30, 2024 2:45 PMTo: