Re: [Vo]:Vector Potential Wave Radio
From the author: All charged bodies emit virtual photons. These are emitted in pairs in the same direction with opposite momentum. This conserves momentum on the charged body. The momentum of the photon is a characteristic of the photon (like spin) and is independent of the direction the photon is traveling. They do not travel far, as they are their own anti-particles. They self-annihilate leaving nothing. This occurs because they are close physically and have opposite momentum. The vector potential emitted by a current carrying wire is a packet of coherent virtual photons, all with the same momentum traveling in the same direction. They cannot annihilate each other, for this would violate conservation of momentum. They travel to infinity. Momentum must always be conserved. On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 9:30 AM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Experimental results with plasma. Reception of longitudinal vector potential radiation with a plasma antennahttp://www.deepdyve.com/lp/american-institute-of-physics/reception-of-longitudinal-vector-potential-radiation-with-a-plasma-mXGude67Ol?articleList=%2Fsearch%3Fquery%3Dexperiments%2Bwith%2Bmagnetic%2Bvector%2Bpotential Zimmerman, Robert K.http://www.deepdyve.com/search?author=Zimmerman%2C+Robert+K. Journal of Applied Physicshttp://www.deepdyve.com/browse/journals/journal-of-applied-physics , Volume 114 (4) – Jul 28, 2013 I'm currently in communication with the author regarding a graphene experiment. Also, of interest to LENR: Three-Dimensional Study of the Vector Potential ofMagnetic Structureshttp://www.deepdyve.com/lp/american-physical-society-aps/three-dimensional-study-of-the-vector-potential-of-magnetic-structures-AM9UOWrnU7?articleList=%2Fsearch%3Fquery%3Dexperiments%2Bwith%2Bmagnetic%2Bvector%2Bpotential Phatak, Charudattahttp://www.deepdyve.com/search?author=Phatak%2C+Charudatta ; Petford-Long, Amanda Khttp://www.deepdyve.com/search?author=Petford-Long%2C+Amanda+K http://www.deepdyve.com/search?query=experiments+with+magnetic+vector+potential#1079-7114 Physical Review Lettershttp://www.deepdyve.com/browse/journals/physical-review-letters , Volume 104 (25) – Jun 25, 2010 Save for Laterhttp://www.deepdyve.com/search?query=experiments+with+magnetic+vector+potential#AM9UOWrnU7 The vector potential is central to a number of areas of condensed matter physics, such as superconductivity and magnetism. On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 11:52 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: New Radio Wave Requires No Transmitter Power!http://www.lbagroup.com/blog/new-radio-wave-requires-no-transmitter-power/ McMaster Professor Natalia Nikolova and her husband Robert ZimmermanMcMaster research engineer Professor Natalia Nikolova, and her husband Robert Zimmerman, have verified the existence of a new type of radio wave called the Vector Potential Wave. This wave was first predicted in 1880 by British mathematician James Clerk Maxwell, but had never been directly detected until this summer here on McMaster campus in the Communications Research Lab. Dr. Nikolova comments, “One of the most enigmatic predictions of Maxwell was his concept of the magnetic vector potential. Until recently most engineers believed it was only a mathematical concept with no physical reality. Now, more than 125 years later, we have realized a magnetic vector potential detector which allows measuring the wave at any distance from a microwave antenna.” Nikolova and her husband have been working on this development nearly 2 years. Zimmerman feels that the new discovery will ultimately lead to radio and television transmissions which do not require energy. On a more fundamental level, he added, “Maxwell was correct all along.” The novelty of the discovery is that while the transmission requires very little energy, the reception of the wave requires that an active battery operated receiver be used. This is distinct from usual AM radio transmissions, where much energy is radiated by the transmitter, and the receiver can be a ‘crystal set’ with no battery. The detector developed by the research team is a plasma device looking like a fluorescent tube which displays super-conducting properties for radio signals. Nikolova is quick to add, “The device is at room temperature but acts like a superconductor, as predicted by Fritz London in 1930.” Nikolova and Zimmerman plan on submitting their results this week to the research journal *The Physical Review* of the American Physical Society. Zimmerman is a former Director of Engineering of LBA Technologyhttp://www.lbagroup.com/technology/index.php .
Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%
Then are we now adding the condition that the temperature needs to be above 800C in order to determine that Rossi is real??? We seem to be off the track of that subject. We've been talking about what is the optimum engine technically to work with a LENR device. My question is aimed at SWWAT-- Starting With What's Available Today. And my question hasn't really been answered -- If Rossi is determined to be real, wouldn't a stock like CYPW take off? Are there other public stocks that would skyrocket? Any steam engine stocks? It seems generically obvious to me that CYPW would take off. I don't know of any other publicly traded stocks that would skyrocket as a result of Rossi being real. This brings me obliquely to a point I made earlier about Blaze Spinnaker. I didn't think he was being straightforward when he first brought this probability thing up. And I don't think he's straightforward now. Here's how: Let's say we wake up tomorrow and read in the news that Rossi is real. The independent third party report verifies that he has a rainbow directly proceeding from his hind quarters and there's a pot of gold there (but no leprachaun to explain it all). And NASA says they have been evaluating this device and are ready to purchase more than 100 units for testing. And IH says they are ready to schedule a demo to the patent office so that they can proceed with the patent as the PTO has outlined, by demonstrating the technology. All the vectors point towards It's real. The world is suddenly turned on its head. Immediately we would see a huge capital shift into every corner of this technology -- hundreds of $billions. A stock like CYPW would be targeted by Toyota or any number of multi$Billion enterprise companies. So that means that, if someone posts that they think it's a 35% chance that Rossi is real but don't think it's worthwhile to invest accordingly, he's not being straightforward. If someone were to tell you that there's a 1/3 chance that within a quarter, you could make 5X return on an investment, it would be worth putting a thousand dollars down, wouldn't it? Actually, when you see what kind of jumps penny stocks take, and that CYPW has jumped by more than that in 2007 (more than 100X), it increases those pot odds substantially. And the downside is that it's an unhealthy company like CYPW, who could go bankrupt (like Infinia did) within a year. It's quite similar to the way poker is played. If you're trying to fill an inside straight (11:1 odds to fill) and the pot odds are $20:1 (costs $1 to win $20), then the smart move is to stay in because the pot odds are higher than the winning odds. If it costs $4 to stay in, the pot odds go to $5:1, and you stay out. With stock, if your emotional odds are 1/3 of winning, and the pot odds are $1:10, where $1 wins you $10, then you buy because the emotional odds are lower than the pot odds. On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:29 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:47 AM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.comwrote: From many experts in engine I've heard that stirling engine are not a realistic solution... If the temperature of a device approaches 8-900 C, as seen in the Elforsk test, a simple steam engine should be adequate. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:27 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.comwrote: Then are we now adding the condition that the temperature needs to be above 800C in order to determine that Rossi is real??? I was addressing the question of whether a Stirling engine would be necessary or useful; I was saying it shouldn't be needed if temperatures can be made to reach as high as those seen in the Elforsk test. The Elforsk test gives me, personally speaking, sufficient information to believe that Rossi is probably for real. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%
The Elforsk test gives me, personally speaking, sufficient information to believe that Rossi is probably for real. ***Does that mean you think it's a 51% probability that Rossi is real? On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:38 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:27 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.comwrote: Then are we now adding the condition that the temperature needs to be above 800C in order to determine that Rossi is real??? I was addressing the question of whether a Stirling engine would be necessary or useful; I was saying it shouldn't be needed if temperatures can be made to reach as high as those seen in the Elforsk test. The Elforsk test gives me, personally speaking, sufficient information to believe that Rossi is probably for real. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Breakthrough paper on the Aharonov-Bohm effect published
This is my take on things. In the first decades of the 20th century, physicists hotly debated how to make sense of the strange phenomena of quantum mechanics, such as the tendency of subatomic particles to behave like both particles and waves. One early theory, called pilot-wave theory, proposed that moving particles are borne along on some type of quantum wave, like driftwood on the tide. But this theory ultimately gave way to the so-called Copenhagen interpretation, which gets rid of the carrier wave, but with it the intuitive notion that a moving particle follows a definite path through space. Recently, Yves Couder, a physicist at Université Paris Diderot, has conducted a series of experiments in which millimeter-scale fluid droplets, bouncing up and down on a vibrated fluid bath, are guided by the waves that they themselves produce. In many respects, the droplets behave like quantum particles, and in a recent commentary in the *Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences*, John Bush, an applied mathematician at MIT who specializes in fluid dynamics, suggests that experiments like Couder’s may ultimately shed light on some of the peculiarities of quantum mechanics. The *Aharonov–Bohm effect*, is one of these peculiarities. This effect is a quantum mechanical phenomenon in which an electrically charged particle is influenced by an electromagnetic field (*E*, *B*), despite being confined to a region in which both the magnetic field *B* and electric field *E* are zero. It is a mistake to consider an quantum particle as solely a particle. But the carrier wave of the particle is extended in space over a wide volume and is affected by any number of magnetic field lines well away from the subatomic particles location. This interaction between the carrier wave and the magnetic field causes the behavior of the subatomic particle to be effected remotely via induced probations it its carrier waves. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 1:21 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: Key to understanding QM interactions not only involves harmonic relationships, but also phase relationships and physical orientations/alignments of the dipole-like oscillations. The fact that tunneling probability is a function of mag-fld is no surprise here… the mag-fld serves to bring things into a better alignment, which increases the likelihood of ‘tunneling’. The fact that unusual phenomena like tunneling and anomalous branching ratios are so rare, is because normal BULK matter is a very complex 3D matrix of oscillators, which, at any temperature above 0K, are only in ‘sync’ for infinitesimally short time periods and only in very small areas. The individual oscillators WANT to be at their fundamental frequencies, but quanta of heat energy are being absorbed and emitted constantly, so none of your neighboring atoms/electrons are ever in sync with yours. -mark *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Thursday, May 15, 2014 8:57 PM *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* [Vo]:Breakthrough paper on the Aharonov-Bohm effect published http://phys.org/news/2014-05-breakthrough-paper-aharonov-bohm-effect-published.html#nRlv *Breakthrough paper on the Aharonov-Bohm effect published* *tunneling is proportional to the strength of the magnetic field present.*
Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:42 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.comwrote: ***Does that mean you think it's a 51% probability that Rossi is real? I don't know if I can quantify the feeling with so much precision. I'm on the fence about the underlying premises of prediction markets. Perhaps a feeling that there is an 80+% chance that he's got something, with a healthy allowance for the possibility of a negative surprise in the future. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
I haven't made up my mind one way or another, I want DGT to succeed as I've always had a certain amount of belief in them despite their shortcomings, but in regards to labeling Jed as biased, couldn't the same be said of you? I.e. that it's comforting to think Gamberale is unfairly attacking and trying to undermine DGT for no good reason, who you've based much of your theory crafting and had some variety of relationship with for awhile now? You always seem to claim they've proved far more than they have. Jed is not the only one with doubts, and you have some sort of personal involvement with DGT (whatever it is) that could be clouding your judgment as well, so we should quit with the armchair psychology unless we want it turned back upon ourselves. Anyone who says it's for sure this way or that is taking a rather large leap of faith and not a wait-and-see rational approach. I'll leave it at that. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 12:11 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Human nature demands that you believe the guy who states exactly what you want to believe. Gamberale gives Jed a warm feeling. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 12:02 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: I called Alexander Xanthoulis and asked for a comment. He didn’t dispute the result of the report but pointed out that the calorimetric set-up at the Milan demo was not made by Defkalion but by Mose. Gamberale confirmed this but explained that the set-up was made according to strict instructions from Defkalion, and that when Mose added some component, such as another independent flow meter or another method for measuring thermal heat output, these additional components were immediately removed by Defkalion personnel without discussions. If they are not swindlers . . . then for some reason they are trying to make themselves look like swindlers, when they do things like this. As has been mentioned, we don't know much about Gamberale. I recall that his conclusion about the flow meter was validated by others you know. But I haven't heard about validation of all of his statements, especially the ones concerning his being made to do this or that. We have two different accounts that conflict in spirit, one in which Xanthoulis says that Gamberale decided how to do the measurements, and one in which Gamberale says that Defkalion decided how to do the measurements. To be sure, even with what has been substantiated, the situation is an embarrassing one for Defkalion. But I am not persuaded one way or the other that Gamberale's account is not an exaggerated or misleading one in some details. It would be nice to know more about him or to have third-party verification of some of the other things he's saying. Eric
RE: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%
From: Kevin O'Malley …And my question hasn't really been answered -- If Rossi is determined to be real, wouldn't a stock like CYPW take off? Are there other public stocks that would skyrocket? Any steam engine stocks? I think that this is a good question and especially because many who support LENR would probably plow back any profits made from the Rossi announcement into RD. Rossi is the tip of the massive iceberg – capable of sinking the Titanic OPEC (or at least turning her back to port) but since AR admits to not understanding what is going on –this is a wide open field, needing only RD dollars and smart experienced researchers to explore all the angles. However, CYPW has never seemed like anything special to me. It is basically a small steam engine which does not suffer the usual set of inefficiencies when scaled down, and there are some serious red flags in their presentation. If one were to look for the best conversion technology (low temp heat to electric) it would appear to be ORC. The Organic Rankin Cycle is “like steam” but better and already in production for conversion of waste industrial heat. In fact CYPW will surely change over to ORC if Rossi is limited to low temperature. We have mentioned this company before, going back several years, which unfortunately has a similar name as the failed Stirling company and may not be publicly traded - but there are 3-4 others in ORC (and I am a terrible stock picker). http://www.infinityturbine.com/ORC/ORC_Waste_Heat_Turbine.html However, if there was a quick dollar to be made from the announcement itself, which would play on public sentiment and market hysteria (rather than real economic realities) it would seem to me that the biggest immediate way to make money would be to short oil. There are other reasons to short oil, anyway. Here is some info on that: http://www.zacks.com/stock/news/99558/4-Ways-to-Short-Oil-with-ETFs Jones attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%
Experimental information describing the Ni/H reactor is dammed hard to come by. With the negativity toward DGT shown by much of the LENR elite, our best source of this precious info will be cut off for no good reason. What good does it do for Jed to undercut anyone in this field, especially such a rich source of info. Jed is narrow in his priorities, all he is interested in is boiling water. So what if DGT has made some mistakes at this specialty. Why risk the flow of rich LENR experimental info for water boiling mistakes that everybody makes? It is just so unfortunate. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: From: Kevin O'Malley …And my question hasn't really been answered -- If Rossi is determined to be real, wouldn't a stock like CYPW take off? Are there other public stocks that would skyrocket? Any steam engine stocks? I think that this is a good question and especially because many who support LENR would probably plow back any profits made from the Rossi announcement into RD. Rossi is the tip of the massive iceberg – capable of sinking the Titanic OPEC (or at least turning her back to port) but since AR admits to not understanding what is going on –this is a wide open field, needing only RD dollars and smart experienced researchers to explore all the angles. However, CYPW has never seemed like anything special to me. It is basically a small steam engine which does not suffer the usual set of inefficiencies when scaled down, and there are some serious red flags in their presentation. If one were to look for the best conversion technology (low temp heat to electric) it would appear to be ORC. The Organic Rankin Cycle is “like steam” but better and already in production for conversion of waste industrial heat. In fact CYPW will surely change over to ORC if Rossi is limited to low temperature. We have mentioned this company before, going back several years, which unfortunately has a similar name as the failed Stirling company and may not be publicly traded - but there are 3-4 others in ORC (and I am a terrible stock picker). http://www.infinityturbine.com/ORC/ORC_Waste_Heat_Turbine.html However, if there was a quick dollar to be made from the announcement itself, which would play on public sentiment and market hysteria (rather than real economic realities) it would seem to me that the biggest immediate way to make money would be to short oil. There are other reasons to short oil, anyway. Here is some info on that: http://www.zacks.com/stock/news/99558/4-Ways-to-Short-Oil-with-ETFs Jones
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
Experimental information describing the Ni/H reactor is dammed hard to come by. With the negativity toward DGT shown by much of the LENR elite, our best source of this precious info will be cut off for no good reason. What good does it do for Jed to undercut anyone in this field, especially such a rich source of info. Jed is narrow in his priorities, all he is interested in is boiling water. So what if DGT has made some mistakes at this specialty. Why risk the flow of rich LENR experimental info for water boiling mistakes that everybody makes? It is just so unfortunate. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 6:53 AM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: I haven't made up my mind one way or another, I want DGT to succeed as I've always had a certain amount of belief in them despite their shortcomings, but in regards to labeling Jed as biased, couldn't the same be said of you? I.e. that it's comforting to think Gamberale is unfairly attacking and trying to undermine DGT for no good reason, who you've based much of your theory crafting and had some variety of relationship with for awhile now? You always seem to claim they've proved far more than they have. Jed is not the only one with doubts, and you have some sort of personal involvement with DGT (whatever it is) that could be clouding your judgment as well, so we should quit with the armchair psychology unless we want it turned back upon ourselves. Anyone who says it's for sure this way or that is taking a rather large leap of faith and not a wait-and-see rational approach. I'll leave it at that. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 12:11 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Human nature demands that you believe the guy who states exactly what you want to believe. Gamberale gives Jed a warm feeling. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 12:02 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: I called Alexander Xanthoulis and asked for a comment. He didn’t dispute the result of the report but pointed out that the calorimetric set-up at the Milan demo was not made by Defkalion but by Mose. Gamberale confirmed this but explained that the set-up was made according to strict instructions from Defkalion, and that when Mose added some component, such as another independent flow meter or another method for measuring thermal heat output, these additional components were immediately removed by Defkalion personnel without discussions. If they are not swindlers . . . then for some reason they are trying to make themselves look like swindlers, when they do things like this. As has been mentioned, we don't know much about Gamberale. I recall that his conclusion about the flow meter was validated by others you know. But I haven't heard about validation of all of his statements, especially the ones concerning his being made to do this or that. We have two different accounts that conflict in spirit, one in which Xanthoulis says that Gamberale decided how to do the measurements, and one in which Gamberale says that Defkalion decided how to do the measurements. To be sure, even with what has been substantiated, the situation is an embarrassing one for Defkalion. But I am not persuaded one way or the other that Gamberale's account is not an exaggerated or misleading one in some details. It would be nice to know more about him or to have third-party verification of some of the other things he's saying. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%
Sorry Jones, this preceding post was not meant for you, it was miss-posted. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Experimental information describing the Ni/H reactor is dammed hard to come by. With the negativity toward DGT shown by much of the LENR elite, our best source of this precious info will be cut off for no good reason. What good does it do for Jed to undercut anyone in this field, especially such a rich source of info. Jed is narrow in his priorities, all he is interested in is boiling water. So what if DGT has made some mistakes at this specialty. Why risk the flow of rich LENR experimental info for water boiling mistakes that everybody makes? It is just so unfortunate. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: From: Kevin O'Malley …And my question hasn't really been answered -- If Rossi is determined to be real, wouldn't a stock like CYPW take off? Are there other public stocks that would skyrocket? Any steam engine stocks? I think that this is a good question and especially because many who support LENR would probably plow back any profits made from the Rossi announcement into RD. Rossi is the tip of the massive iceberg – capable of sinking the Titanic OPEC (or at least turning her back to port) but since AR admits to not understanding what is going on –this is a wide open field, needing only RD dollars and smart experienced researchers to explore all the angles. However, CYPW has never seemed like anything special to me. It is basically a small steam engine which does not suffer the usual set of inefficiencies when scaled down, and there are some serious red flags in their presentation. If one were to look for the best conversion technology (low temp heat to electric) it would appear to be ORC. The Organic Rankin Cycle is “like steam” but better and already in production for conversion of waste industrial heat. In fact CYPW will surely change over to ORC if Rossi is limited to low temperature. We have mentioned this company before, going back several years, which unfortunately has a similar name as the failed Stirling company and may not be publicly traded - but there are 3-4 others in ORC (and I am a terrible stock picker). http://www.infinityturbine.com/ORC/ORC_Waste_Heat_Turbine.html However, if there was a quick dollar to be made from the announcement itself, which would play on public sentiment and market hysteria (rather than real economic realities) it would seem to me that the biggest immediate way to make money would be to short oil. There are other reasons to short oil, anyway. Here is some info on that: http://www.zacks.com/stock/news/99558/4-Ways-to-Short-Oil-with-ETFs Jones
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
*our best source of this precious info will be cut off for no good reason. What good does it do for Jed to undercut anyone in this field, especially such a rich source of info.* DGT isn't basing their decisions to release information to the public based on what Jed thinks or has to say on the subject (or any of us for that matter). As I said, I'm keeping an open mind, and I'm willing to give DGT till at least this summer to produce something of relevance (assuming their statements about independent testing, etcetera, is true). I don't see much point in being hyper-negative about the entire thing either. But to say they have been a rich source of info is a dubious statement, and to think that they definitely will be a rich source of info in the future is also a leap of faith based, I think, on your own emotional/psychological attachment to them. Again, you hint at all this valuable information, but it seems only you and Peter are privy to it, leaving the rest of us in the cold. *Jed is narrow in his priorities, all he is interested in is boiling water.* Jed may rub you the wrong way and be a tad snarky hard-nosed sometimes, but that's a bit silly. Are you doing the same by questioning your own priorities and reasons for defending DGT, as much as you question Jed's reasons for challenging them? I'm not so sure. *So what if DGT has made some mistakes at this specialty. Why risk the flow of rich LENR experimental info for water boiling mistakes that everybody makes? It is just so unfortunate.* I don't think we're risking anything by being critical. DGT doesn't give a damn what we think quite frankly. The only thing that matters is them living up to the standards of their investors, which doesn't seem to be happening at the moment. I'll agree with you that the situation overall is unfortunate, and I'm happy to give them a bit of time to respond/prove themselves, but criticism and negativity is not exactly unwarranted all things considered. But at the same time we can still root for them. It would be silly not to. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Experimental information describing the Ni/H reactor is dammed hard to come by. With the negativity toward DGT shown by much of the LENR elite, our best source of this precious info will be cut off for no good reason. What good does it do for Jed to undercut anyone in this field, especially such a rich source of info. Jed is narrow in his priorities, all he is interested in is boiling water. So what if DGT has made some mistakes at this specialty. Why risk the flow of rich LENR experimental info for water boiling mistakes that everybody makes? It is just so unfortunate. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 6:53 AM, Foks0904 . foks0...@gmail.com wrote: I haven't made up my mind one way or another, I want DGT to succeed as I've always had a certain amount of belief in them despite their shortcomings, but in regards to labeling Jed as biased, couldn't the same be said of you? I.e. that it's comforting to think Gamberale is unfairly attacking and trying to undermine DGT for no good reason, who you've based much of your theory crafting and had some variety of relationship with for awhile now? You always seem to claim they've proved far more than they have. Jed is not the only one with doubts, and you have some sort of personal involvement with DGT (whatever it is) that could be clouding your judgment as well, so we should quit with the armchair psychology unless we want it turned back upon ourselves. Anyone who says it's for sure this way or that is taking a rather large leap of faith and not a wait-and-see rational approach. I'll leave it at that. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 12:11 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Human nature demands that you believe the guy who states exactly what you want to believe. Gamberale gives Jed a warm feeling. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 12:02 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: I called Alexander Xanthoulis and asked for a comment. He didn’t dispute the result of the report but pointed out that the calorimetric set-up at the Milan demo was not made by Defkalion but by Mose. Gamberale confirmed this but explained that the set-up was made according to strict instructions from Defkalion, and that when Mose added some component, such as another independent flow meter or another method for measuring thermal heat output, these additional components were immediately removed by Defkalion personnel without discussions. If they are not swindlers . . . then for some reason they are trying to make themselves look like swindlers, when they do things like this. As has been mentioned, we don't know much about Gamberale. I recall that his conclusion about the flow meter was validated by others you know. But I haven't heard about validation of all of his statements, especially the ones
[Vo]:Article: Cold fusion: the greek E-cat has come to an end
This is in Italian but Google does a good job translating it: Cold fusion: the greek E-cat has come to an end http://www.nextme.it/scienza/energia/7700-fusione-fredda-intervista-cappiello-defkalion-europe Quotes from Defkalion Europe managing director Franco Cappiello: I would say that we could talk about their bad faith . We can talk about activities that will surely have legal aftermath, in the courts of the countries where Defkalion Green Technology has done. Defkalion GT put in front of all the NASA report , reports, and measurements made by important scientists specialists calorimetry, but then you have verified that they were all manipulated and exploited for their own use . It is clear that behind all this there could be a criminal intention . Obviously if I was put in a position to verify such documents and statements would not have made any investment in this direction. I have strong and well-founded doubts about Rossi . . . The article says they expressed doubts about the ICCF18 demo to Hadjichristos the day after the demo. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Article: Cold fusion: the greek E-cat has come to an end
This interviewed and Gamberelli are related. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: As has been mentioned, we don't know much about Gamberale. We do know a lot about him. Lewan has a link to his biography, and he just added this to his blog: Gamberale has a PhD in theoretical high energy physics from the University of Milan, and at the Milan based Pirelli Labs he has further developed the theoretical work in coherent electrodynamics by his countryman, late Dr. Giuliano Preparata. Among his experimental work he has been assessing the technology of Black Light Power. He has also made studies on electrochemical loading of palladium wires. Anyway, we don't need to know about him. The president of Defkalion agreed that the flow calorimetry was wrong. So did Hadjichristos and the guy from NI. Everyone now agrees it was not working. Only one question remains: was it a mistake, or fraud? I recall that his conclusion about the flow meter was validated by others you know. Yes. Others including Alexander Xanthoulis, the president of Defkalion, quoted by Lewan. Who else are you waiting for? What more proof do you want? We have two different accounts that conflict in spirit, one in which Xanthoulis says that Gamberale decided how to do the measurements, and one in which Gamberale says that Defkalion decided how to do the measurements. Defkalion's methods were garbage. They had numbers on the screen with no verification at all. I have been putting numbers on computer screens for 40 years and I am here to tell you that numbers mean nothing without proper verification. When Gamberale used his own methods, he discovered the problem immediately. It is obvious that his methods work and Defkalion's do not. This is beyond dispute. Gamberale's methods are the ones that I or anyone else with an ounce of common sense would use. As I said, this is not rocket science. But I am not persuaded one way or the other that Gamberale's account is not an exaggerated or misleading one in some details. NI and everyone else who has looked into in confirm the account. The numbers in the report tell the story. There is no doubt about any of it. The flow rate was completely bogus. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Experimental information describing the Ni/H reactor is dammed hard to come by. Yes, because Defkalion refused to publish anything. Now that Gamberale has published and Xanthoulis, the president of Defkalion confirmed him, we have all experimental information we need. It is case closed. With the negativity toward DGT shown by much of the LENR elite, our best source of this precious info will be cut off for no good reason. What do you mean cut off?!? This is the first time any technical information about Defkalion has ever been published. It is detailed. It is definitive. It proves they have no heat and their calorimetry is completely mistaken. This is rock solid information, confirmed by the president of Defkalion. What more do you want? What good does it do for Jed to undercut anyone in this field, especially such a rich source of info. I have nothing to do with this. I played no role. I have no influence on Defkalion. I have not undercut anyone. The top people at Defkalion Europe proved that the claims are bogus. The president of Defkalion agreed with them. If you do not even believe Xanthoulis on this matter, who will you believe? Why risk the flow of rich LENR experimental info . . . What you are talking about??? There has never been ONE SCRAP OF INFORMATION FROM DEFKALION. Not one graph, not one table of numbers. NOTHING. If you disagree, show me some data published previously. You need to stop blaming this on me. If you know of some data from Defkalion, you need to point it out. I do not mean theoretical speculation from Kim, either. I mean experimental data. They never published any. They still have not published anything. The joint venture company Defkalion Europe published. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
Where did you get that Defkalion Europe was a joint venture? -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
I am referring to the documents and presentations produced by Dr. Kim with DGT for ICCF conferences. Have you read any of them? Does Rossi produce like data? On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Experimental information describing the Ni/H reactor is dammed hard to come by. Yes, because Defkalion refused to publish anything. Now that Gamberale has published and Xanthoulis, the president of Defkalion confirmed him, we have all experimental information we need. It is case closed. With the negativity toward DGT shown by much of the LENR elite, our best source of this precious info will be cut off for no good reason. What do you mean cut off?!? This is the first time any technical information about Defkalion has ever been published. It is detailed. It is definitive. It proves they have no heat and their calorimetry is completely mistaken. This is rock solid information, confirmed by the president of Defkalion. What more do you want? What good does it do for Jed to undercut anyone in this field, especially such a rich source of info. I have nothing to do with this. I played no role. I have no influence on Defkalion. I have not undercut anyone. The top people at Defkalion Europe proved that the claims are bogus. The president of Defkalion agreed with them. If you do not even believe Xanthoulis on this matter, who will you believe? Why risk the flow of rich LENR experimental info . . . What you are talking about??? There has never been ONE SCRAP OF INFORMATION FROM DEFKALION. Not one graph, not one table of numbers. NOTHING. If you disagree, show me some data published previously. You need to stop blaming this on me. If you know of some data from Defkalion, you need to point it out. I do not mean theoretical speculation from Kim, either. I mean experimental data. They never published any. They still have not published anything. The joint venture company Defkalion Europe published. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Article: Cold fusion: the greek E-cat has come to an end
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: This interviewed and Gamberelli are related. I do not see any relevance. Anyway, Defkalion president Xanthoulis is not related to either of these people, and he stated clearly that the flow rate was wrong and the flow calorimetry was wrong. If you do not believe the president of Defkalion, who do you believe? How much better proof do you want? If you are waiting for Hadjichristos to make a clear statement, you wait in vain. He has never said anything clearly about anything. If it were pouring rain outside he would insist there is bright sunlight, because somewhere in the world the sky is blue. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Article: Cold fusion: the greek E-cat has come to an end
The method was used established a low bound, that COP would be at least 1. You are like asking me when I will stop beating my wife. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
I judge the MIT conference that DGT pulled out of as a sign of disgust with the powers that be in the LENR field and the first step at going dark to them for DGT. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I am referring to the documents and presentations produced by Dr. Kim with DGT for ICCF conferences. Have you read any of them? Does Rossi produce like data? On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Experimental information describing the Ni/H reactor is dammed hard to come by. Yes, because Defkalion refused to publish anything. Now that Gamberale has published and Xanthoulis, the president of Defkalion confirmed him, we have all experimental information we need. It is case closed. With the negativity toward DGT shown by much of the LENR elite, our best source of this precious info will be cut off for no good reason. What do you mean cut off?!? This is the first time any technical information about Defkalion has ever been published. It is detailed. It is definitive. It proves they have no heat and their calorimetry is completely mistaken. This is rock solid information, confirmed by the president of Defkalion. What more do you want? What good does it do for Jed to undercut anyone in this field, especially such a rich source of info. I have nothing to do with this. I played no role. I have no influence on Defkalion. I have not undercut anyone. The top people at Defkalion Europe proved that the claims are bogus. The president of Defkalion agreed with them. If you do not even believe Xanthoulis on this matter, who will you believe? Why risk the flow of rich LENR experimental info . . . What you are talking about??? There has never been ONE SCRAP OF INFORMATION FROM DEFKALION. Not one graph, not one table of numbers. NOTHING. If you disagree, show me some data published previously. You need to stop blaming this on me. If you know of some data from Defkalion, you need to point it out. I do not mean theoretical speculation from Kim, either. I mean experimental data. They never published any. They still have not published anything. The joint venture company Defkalion Europe published. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I am referring to the documents and presentations produced by Dr. Kim with DGT for ICCF conferences. Have you read any of them? Kim based his statements on data from Defkalion, showing excess heat. That data was completely wrong. It was either a mistake or fraud. I am pretty sure the other data from Defkalion about magnetic fields and so on was also bogus. Kim based his statements on a complete fantasy. He never even saw the machine work! (Supposedly work. Appear to work.) Does Rossi produce like data? No, but ELFORSK did. Also, that is real data, whereas Defkalion's data was bogus nonsense, as the president of Defkalion admitted. I do not understand why you believe data that the president of the company now admits was wrong. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Symphony7 Reactor
Ron, Although I remain skeptical about the claims I do wonder if the electrolytic nature of the reactor may provide negative feedback to the reaction such that the hydrogen population is self limiting [since they are claiming most of the population is being self produced]which would allow them to overdrive the system safely into OU without self destructing.. I always liked sonofusion because the heat sinking was provided by the environment and the “geometry” was IMHO provided by the collapsing meniscus relative to the ambient gases trapped in the bubble. I don’t think sonofusion will ever achieve OU but the 7 reactor could be a hybrid of gas loading that appears to be a wet electrolytic cell at the macro scale but the NAE geometries at micro and nano scale may be equivalent to a wet cell -producing fractional gases of h2 and O that form nano bubbles of fractional gas that becomes even more fractional as the minscus collapses – unlike a dry loaded powder or skeletal cat a “nested” wet sell inside the NAE would be protected from runaway by the liquid contents – heat sinking the geometry from self destruction. The heat would be emitted from the bubbles and cooled by surrounding liquid before reaching the lattice geometry- Kind of like keeping your skeletal catalysts wet but on steroids? Fran From: Ron Kita [mailto:chiralex.k...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 7:41 AM To: vortex-l Subject: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:Symphony7 Reactor Greetings Vortex-L Not sure if this has been covered before: http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/05/08/solar-hydrogen-trends-claim-hydrogen-production-process-is-lenrtransmutation/ Ron Kita, Chiralex
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I judge the MIT conference that DGT pulled out of as a sign of disgust with the powers that be in the LENR field and the first step at going dark to them for DGT. They pulled out because they knew this scandal would soon break. They knew the jig was up. I knew it too. I have heard from NI and many others that the flow rate was bogus. I did not know it was as bad as this! I assumed it was a mistake. There is world of difference between an honest mistake and a company that does not allow its own joint venture to take elementary precautions to confirm the measurements. We all make stupid mistakes from time to time. But when a company goes out of its way to prevent a proper test, that stinks. It is tantamount to fraud, even if fraud is not intended. Tantamount meaning it might as well be fraud, for all intents and purposes. If I were on the jury I would hardly see the need to make the distinction or prove intent. I cannot imagine why Axil is defending these people, when their own president has clearly stated the flow calorimetry was wrong. He knew that the day after the ICCF18 demo. He has been covering up ever since. What more proof of dishonesty and bad faith can you ask for? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Article: Cold fusion: the greek E-cat has come to an end
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: The method was used established a low bound, that COP would be at least 1. You are like asking me when I will stop beating my wife. This method cannot measure the difference between a flow rate of 1 liter per minute and zero!!! The lower bound was zero. NOTHING. This method is completely wrong -- as wrong as any measurement can be. I have never heard of a flow meter so badly set up, and I have seen many bad flow meters. You want an analogy? It is as if we found your wife cut into pieces, with her head in one room and her legs in an another, and although you are covered with blood, you deny laying a hand on her. She is perfectly okay. Just resting. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Article: Cold fusion: the greek E-cat has come to an end
If you remember, John H said that in the !CCF-18 demo, the output of reactor was steam but was reckoned as if it was 212 degree water to establish a minimum COP level. Is this what is bothering you (Jed) now? It might have been better if DGT used a collapsible 1000 gallon solar water tank as a heat sink where a simple water temperature measurement of the water in that tank would reflect the heat generation of the reactor. Keep it simple. But I know little about these matters of boiling water. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: This interviewed and Gamberelli are related. I do not see any relevance. Anyway, Defkalion president Xanthoulis is not related to either of these people, and he stated clearly that the flow rate was wrong and the flow calorimetry was wrong. If you do not believe the president of Defkalion, who do you believe? How much better proof do you want? If you are waiting for Hadjichristos to make a clear statement, you wait in vain. He has never said anything clearly about anything. If it were pouring rain outside he would insist there is bright sunlight, because somewhere in the world the sky is blue. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Article: Cold fusion: the greek E-cat has come to an end
My version of the story is completely different, but involves 2 controversial people. I hope you did not get the information from them! -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Article: Cold fusion: the greek E-cat has come to an end
The best part it is that the whole story is out there on the intertubes, for anyone to see! But, it is coded speech, so you won't find it. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
DGT was producing steam, not 212 water. The change of state energy from water to steam was not reflected in the COP calculations. Yes this is inaccurate, but gross under estimate of the COP. I am depending on memory, correct me if I have erred. Jed, you are whipping yourselfer into a frenzy of recombination. Such a negative position will damage your reputation if DGT does have something that you say they don't. A charge of bad judgment might be leveled upon DGT success. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I judge the MIT conference that DGT pulled out of as a sign of disgust with the powers that be in the LENR field and the first step at going dark to them for DGT. They pulled out because they knew this scandal would soon break. They knew the jig was up. I knew it too. I have heard from NI and many others that the flow rate was bogus. I did not know it was as bad as this! I assumed it was a mistake. There is world of difference between an honest mistake and a company that does not allow its own joint venture to take elementary precautions to confirm the measurements. We all make stupid mistakes from time to time. But when a company goes out of its way to prevent a proper test, that stinks. It is tantamount to fraud, even if fraud is not intended. Tantamount meaning it might as well be fraud, for all intents and purposes. If I were on the jury I would hardly see the need to make the distinction or prove intent. I cannot imagine why Axil is defending these people, when their own president has clearly stated the flow calorimetry was wrong. He knew that the day after the ICCF18 demo. He has been covering up ever since. What more proof of dishonesty and bad faith can you ask for? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
Recombination shoud read Recrimination. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: DGT was producing steam, not 212 water. The change of state energy from water to steam was not reflected in the COP calculations. Yes this is inaccurate, but gross under estimate of the COP. I am depending on memory, correct me if I have erred. Jed, you are whipping yourselfer into a frenzy of recombination. Such a negative position will damage your reputation if DGT does have something that you say they don't. A charge of bad judgment might be leveled upon DGT success. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I judge the MIT conference that DGT pulled out of as a sign of disgust with the powers that be in the LENR field and the first step at going dark to them for DGT. They pulled out because they knew this scandal would soon break. They knew the jig was up. I knew it too. I have heard from NI and many others that the flow rate was bogus. I did not know it was as bad as this! I assumed it was a mistake. There is world of difference between an honest mistake and a company that does not allow its own joint venture to take elementary precautions to confirm the measurements. We all make stupid mistakes from time to time. But when a company goes out of its way to prevent a proper test, that stinks. It is tantamount to fraud, even if fraud is not intended. Tantamount meaning it might as well be fraud, for all intents and purposes. If I were on the jury I would hardly see the need to make the distinction or prove intent. I cannot imagine why Axil is defending these people, when their own president has clearly stated the flow calorimetry was wrong. He knew that the day after the ICCF18 demo. He has been covering up ever since. What more proof of dishonesty and bad faith can you ask for? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Breakthrough paper on the Aharonov-Bohm effect published
Mark-- Your noted the following: The individual oscillators WANT to be at their fundamental frequencies, but quanta of heat energy are being absorbed and emitted constantly, so none of your neighboring atoms/electrons are ever in sync with yours. I think that most infra red radiation associated with heat is absorbed by the electrons in a crystal lattice. The energy is then shifted to the vibration of the various atoms making up the lattice. However, I think the vibrational modes are quantized and have resonant frequencies. I would guess that many atoms in a lattice vibrated at the same frequency in a given local position. Its is much like a matrix of springs and masses. How does your understanding as noted above contrast with my comment. Bob - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 11:54 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Breakthrough paper on the Aharonov-Bohm effect published This is my take on things. In the first decades of the 20th century, physicists hotly debated how to make sense of the strange phenomena of quantum mechanics, such as the tendency of subatomic particles to behave like both particles and waves. One early theory, called pilot-wave theory, proposed that moving particles are borne along on some type of quantum wave, like driftwood on the tide. But this theory ultimately gave way to the so-called Copenhagen interpretation, which gets rid of the carrier wave, but with it the intuitive notion that a moving particle follows a definite path through space. Recently, Yves Couder, a physicist at Université Paris Diderot, has conducted a series of experiments in which millimeter-scale fluid droplets, bouncing up and down on a vibrated fluid bath, are guided by the waves that they themselves produce. In many respects, the droplets behave like quantum particles, and in a recent commentary in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, John Bush, an applied mathematician at MIT who specializes in fluid dynamics, suggests that experiments like Couder’s may ultimately shed light on some of the peculiarities of quantum mechanics. The Aharonov–Bohm effect, is one of these peculiarities. This effect is a quantum mechanical phenomenon in which an electrically charged particle is influenced by an electromagnetic field (E, B), despite being confined to a region in which both the magnetic field B and electric field E are zero. It is a mistake to consider an quantum particle as solely a particle. But the carrier wave of the particle is extended in space over a wide volume and is affected by any number of magnetic field lines well away from the subatomic particles location. This interaction between the carrier wave and the magnetic field causes the behavior of the subatomic particle to be effected remotely via induced probations it its carrier waves. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 1:21 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Key to understanding QM interactions not only involves harmonic relationships, but also phase relationships and physical orientations/alignments of the dipole-like oscillations. The fact that tunneling probability is a function of mag-fld is no surprise here… the mag-fld serves to bring things into a better alignment, which increases the likelihood of ‘tunneling’. The fact that unusual phenomena like tunneling and anomalous branching ratios are so rare, is because normal BULK matter is a very complex 3D matrix of oscillators, which, at any temperature above 0K, are only in ‘sync’ for infinitesimally short time periods and only in very small areas. The individual oscillators WANT to be at their fundamental frequencies, but quanta of heat energy are being absorbed and emitted constantly, so none of your neighboring atoms/electrons are ever in sync with yours. -mark From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 8:57 PM To: vortex-l Subject: [Vo]:Breakthrough paper on the Aharonov-Bohm effect published http://phys.org/news/2014-05-breakthrough-paper-aharonov-bohm-effect-published.html#nRlv Breakthrough paper on the Aharonov-Bohm effect published tunneling is proportional to the strength of the magnetic field present.
RE: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
Gamberale has a PhD in theoretical high energy physics from the University of Milan, and at the Milan based Pirelli Labs he has further developed the theoretical work in coherent electrodynamics by his countryman, late Dr. Giuliano Preparata. Among his experimental work he has been assessing the technology of Black Light Power. He has also made studies on electrochemical loading of palladium wires. Gamberale’s association with Preparata speaks for itself. Martin Fleischmann described Preparata as “ the smartest person I ever knew.” Here is a nice obit by Miley of an unsung hero of LENR: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/views/Group1/Preparata.shtml Unless he has suffered recent “brain damage”… ala Hillary/Rove … one would have to conclude that Gamberale’s level of competence surpasses the entire staff of DGT by an order of magnitude.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
The level of competence needed to verify the claimed error is not much higher than of a plumber. But, you don't know the staff of DGT to make such claim. 2014-05-16 13:07 GMT-03:00 Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net: Gamberale’s level of competence surpasses the entire staff of DGT by an order of magnitude. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
*Judas Iscariot* was said to be the brightest of the 12 apostates, but the least trustworthy. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Gamberale has a PhD in theoretical high energy physics from the University of Milan, and at the Milan based Pirelli Labs he has further developed the theoretical work in coherent electrodynamics by his countryman, late Dr. Giuliano Preparata. Among his experimental work he has been assessing the technology of Black Light Power. He has also made studies on electrochemical loading of palladium wires. Gamberale’s association with Preparata speaks for itself. Martin Fleischmann described Preparata as “ the smartest person I ever knew.” Here is a nice obit by Miley of an unsung hero of LENR: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/views/Group1/Preparata.shtml Unless he has suffered recent “brain damage”… ala Hillary/Rove … one would have to conclude that Gamberale’s level of competence surpasses the entire staff of DGT by an order of magnitude.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 8:48 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Jed, you are whipping yourselfer into a frenzy of [recrimination]. Pot, meet kettle.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
The right word might be crimination. I don't believe that I am meeting the spirit of Jed's responces as follows: 1. to charge with a crime. 2. to incriminate. 3. to censure (something) as criminal: condemn On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.comwrote: On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 8:48 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Jed, you are whipping yourselfer into a frenzy of [recrimination]. Pot, meet kettle.
Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%
On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 12:04 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:42 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.comwrote: ***Does that mean you think it's a 51% probability that Rossi is real? I don't know if I can quantify the feeling with so much precision. ***I understand. In inductive reasoning, when one says one thing is probably true, it implies that it is at a minimum slightly more chance of being true than false, which is that 51% figure. I'm on the fence about the underlying premises of prediction markets. ***That makes sense. It is all our own internal reasoning, which takes in data from sometimes unrelated sources. Blaze sure has demonstrated that. For instance, he modifies the Rossi is real conclusion with data from MFMP and the NANOR. Both are unrelated to Rossi. Perhaps a feeling that there is an 80+% chance that he's got something, with a healthy allowance for the possibility of a negative surprise in the future. ***Thanks for that figure. I agree that it has a healthy allowance of a negative surprise in the future. Let's say that you feel about the same way towards CYPW, that it has an 80% chance of skyrocketing if Rossi is real. That means that you think there is a (.80 x .80 = ) 64% chance that CYPW will skyrocket some time soon. Those are your emotional odds, analogous to hand odds in poker. The table odds are perhaps $10:1 or $20:1, depending on what would happen in a breakout. With the CYPW stock, it actually experienced a spike of greater than $100:1 on merely conventional news, whereas a LENR breakout is a black swan event; so I feel comfortable using $100:1 as the table odds. So it's 64% hand odds versus 1000% table odds. That signals a strong buy. Now, of course, when someone calculates internal emotional odds of something like Rossi has something and then you start talking about Putting My Money Down on such internal odds, everyone tightens up. So my internal emotional odds would actually be more like 1/2 for Rossi and 1/2 for CYPW. That still brings us to 25% hand odds versus 1% table odds. It is still a strong buy signal. With penny stocks, there's nothing like a low price to overcome paranoia. With this instance, the internal emotional odds also include the desire to put my money where my mouth is, as well as to contribute to the LENR effort with some expectation of gain. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%
You people know that Kim is doing consulting for CYPW, right? And that its headquarters are 40min away from Rossi's hom... HQ of Leonardo corporation. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%
My problem is that I don't know how to short oil. I agree that this would be preferential because it is probably far more liquid and one could wait until the very last minute. For instance, we all know that most of the world is ignoring LENR news. As soon as that independent report is published, one could jump at that time without too much risk of losing out on the event. The world isn't likely to wake up on such news. The world might wake up if IH scheduled a demo for the USPTO so they could secure their patent. That seems likely. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 6:12 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: From: Kevin O'Malley …And my question hasn't really been answered -- If Rossi is determined to be real, wouldn't a stock like CYPW take off? Are there other public stocks that would skyrocket? Any steam engine stocks? I think that this is a good question and especially because many who support LENR would probably plow back any profits made from the Rossi announcement into RD. Rossi is the tip of the massive iceberg – capable of sinking the Titanic OPEC (or at least turning her back to port) but since AR admits to not understanding what is going on –this is a wide open field, needing only RD dollars and smart experienced researchers to explore all the angles. However, CYPW has never seemed like anything special to me. It is basically a small steam engine which does not suffer the usual set of inefficiencies when scaled down, and there are some serious red flags in their presentation. If one were to look for the best conversion technology (low temp heat to electric) it would appear to be ORC. The Organic Rankin Cycle is “like steam” but better and already in production for conversion of waste industrial heat. In fact CYPW will surely change over to ORC if Rossi is limited to low temperature. We have mentioned this company before, going back several years, which unfortunately has a similar name as the failed Stirling company and may not be publicly traded - but there are 3-4 others in ORC (and I am a terrible stock picker). http://www.infinityturbine.com/ORC/ORC_Waste_Heat_Turbine.html However, if there was a quick dollar to be made from the announcement itself, which would play on public sentiment and market hysteria (rather than real economic realities) it would seem to me that the biggest immediate way to make money would be to short oil. There are other reasons to short oil, anyway. Here is some info on that: http://www.zacks.com/stock/news/99558/4-Ways-to-Short-Oil-with-ETFs Jones
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Judas Iscariot was said to be the brightest of the 12 apostates, but the least trustworthy. Just the opposite, according to the Gnostic Gospel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: DGT was producing steam, not 212 water. They were producing a little steam because there was no water flowing into the cell. The change of state energy from water to steam was not reflected in the COP calculations. Yes this is inaccurate, but gross under estimate of the COP. That would only be true if the flow is correct. Or partially correct. When you adjust for a much lower flow rate, or no flow at all, then the steam does not indicate any excess heat, any more than steam from a pot of water on an electric stove proves there is an anomaly. Jed, you are whipping yourselfer into a frenzy of recombination. Well, at least recombination is appropriate for this field. Such a negative position will damage your reputation if DGT does have something that you say they don't. If they have something and they publish it, of course I will agree it is real. As long as they publish nothing I am justified in saying as far as I know they have nothing. A charge of bad judgment might be leveled upon DGT success. Since they have not published any evidence of success, no one can blame me for concluding they have had no success. I do not have ESP. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: The level of competence needed to verify the claimed error is not much higher than of a plumber. Not higher at all. Any plumber on earth could have verified it in 10 minutes. That is exactly what plumbers do when they test boilers. You can see that in the forms they fill out for certified safety inspections. This is one of the tests they do. Some of the others are more complicated and difficult. See: http://www.peci.org/ftguide/ftg/SystemModules/Boilers/Functional_Testing_for_Boilers.htm The people at DE were able to prove the thing does not work as soon as everyone from Greece went home and they had a free hand. When they set up verification equipment before that, the Greeks removed it without discussion. That's suspicious behavior, to say the least. But, you don't know the staff of DGT to make such claim. I am not sure what you mean by that. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The right word might be crimination. I don't believe that I am meeting the spirit of Jed's responces as follows: 1. to charge with a crime. 2. to incriminate. 3. to censure (something) as criminal: condemn Franco Cappiello implied they are criminals, or at least that they will be open to civil suits. I am just reporting what he said. As I said, I do not know enough about the facts to judge whether it was stupidity or fraud. Cappiello said: We can talk about activities that will surely have legal aftermath, in the courts of the countries where Defkalion Green Technology has [operated]. Possiamo parlare di attività che avranno sicuramente strascichi legali, nei tribunali dei paesi dove Defkalion Green Technology ha operato. The Defkalion GT put in front of all the NASA report, reports, and measurements made by important scientists specialists calorimetry, but then you have verified that they were all manipulated and exploited for their own use . It is clear that behind all this there could be a criminal intention È chiaro che dietro a tutto ciò ci potrebbe essere un disegno criminoso. In my opinion the NASA report Cappiello refers to was a checklist, not an endorsement. I heard from Mike Nelson today, and confirmed that is what it was. More extensive tests were needed. DE finally did these extensive tests, and now we know the facts. Axil is upset with me because of what the people at DE said, and what president Xanthoulis of Defkalion confirmed. His anger is misdirected. He should railing against Xanthoulis, not me. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%
On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 6:12 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: We have mentioned this company before, going back several years, which unfortunately has a similar name as the failed Stirling company and may not be publicly traded - but there are 3-4 others in ORC (and I am a terrible stock picker). http://www.infinityturbine.com/ORC/ORC_Waste_Heat_Turbine.html No it is not publicly traded. Perhaps Capstone Turbine would be a better choice: CPST On the plus side, they have product that they sell, more than $100M revenues. Reasonably healthy company. http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/cpst/charts?symb=CPSTcountrycode=UStime=13startdate=1%2F4%2F1999enddate=5%2F16%2F2014freq=1compidx=nonecompind=nonecomptemptext=Enter+Symbol%28s%29comp=noneuf=7168ma=1maval=50lf=1lf2=4lf3=0type=2size=2style=1013
Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%
The problem is... Y.E. Kim appears to have moved forward on data from Defkalion without verifying that their device works. He could have done the same thing with Cyclone. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: You people know that Kim is doing consulting for CYPW, right? And that its headquarters are 40min away from Rossi's hom... HQ of Leonardo corporation. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
I wrote: I heard from Mike Nelson today, and confirmed that is what it was. More extensive tests were needed. DE finally did these extensive tests, and now we know the facts. I mean that Mike Nelson said More extensive tests were needed. Lewan described Nelson's report: The report was fairly extensive but contained no data, only a sort of checklist of what had been implemented and a summary of the results. The summary was interesting, though Nelson stressed that the results must be considered provisional until more accurate tests had been performed. Nelson agreed. In a message to me he commented, And that was exactly what happened He said more extensive tests were needed and that is just what we finally got -- more tests. He never meant to endorse the claims. He sure did not endorse them when I spoke with him last year. As I have said many times, he and the others said things like, it doesn't work or I couldn't tell or more tests are needed or meh, it wasn't worth the trip. Not one of them told me it worked, and I sure as heck would not have reported they did, after hearing so many negative reports. I figured it was a mistake. It looks more like fraud now. Inept fraud. But I can't tell. I am not an investigator. I cannot bring those people into a police station and grill them, or get a warrant to look through their business records and correspondence. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%
Cyclone doesn't do CF, they said that on their facebook page. I meant Kim could be with Rossi. 2014-05-16 15:26 GMT-03:00 Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com: He could have done the same thing with Cyclone. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion looked promising at first
Maybe DGT made a mistake with a hose! -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
[Vo]:Defkalion Europe (DE) was a joint venture
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Where did you get that Defkalion Europe was a joint venture? The Gamberale report: In November 2012 an Italian company based in Milan and named Mose srl signed an exclusive contract for the european industrial development of this technology. This contract provides for the complete transfer of the DGT technology to Defkalion Europe (DE), an Italian company (50% DGT and 50% Mose and composed exclusively of Italian members of Mose) . . . http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GamberaleLfinaltechn.pdf In American business jargon, a company owned half by Defkalion and half by Mose is a joint venture. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Europe (DE) was a joint venture
Right, so they sign a business without even knowing what they were getting into? Complete transfer of technology? This is full of bull. 2014-05-16 16:11 GMT-03:00 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: [image: Boxbe] https://www.boxbe.com/overview This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (jedrothw...@gmail.com) Add cleanup rulehttps://www.boxbe.com/popup?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxbe.com%2Fcleanup%3Ftoken%3DzBY1D4SGdzkBG%252BdnULWd3oRcawyEXQVFqFoP5GLr6AiEOAx%252FrlgHbIrE%252F%252BfF0P5dcwMlKSYWPpg2REpnS7f41VH763o7HmhX2OMXBwjYywcck16swM3CSkS8MJgQ6W3YJzfoVM2JN6R6l%252FJLw6zY0w%253D%253D%26key%3D0HT01%252FsBowhKru7QaBm6kr5ggfG0icgzkUu2LFVRp28%253Dtc_serial=17274289323tc_rand=157558059utm_source=stfutm_medium=emailutm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADDutm_content=001| More infohttp://blog.boxbe.com/general/boxbe-automatic-cleanup?tc_serial=17274289323tc_rand=157558059utm_source=stfutm_medium=emailutm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADDutm_content=001 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Where did you get that Defkalion Europe was a joint venture? The Gamberale report: In November 2012 an Italian company based in Milan and named Mose srl signed an exclusive contract for the european industrial development of this technology. This contract provides for the complete transfer of the DGT technology to Defkalion Europe (DE), an Italian company (50% DGT and 50% Mose and composed exclusively of Italian members of Mose) . . . http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GamberaleLfinaltechn.pdf In American business jargon, a company owned half by Defkalion and half by Mose is a joint venture. - Jed -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Europe (DE) was a joint venture
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Right, so they sign a business without even knowing what they were getting into? Complete transfer of technology? This is full of bull. How do you know? Did you read the contract? Do you think they could perform industrial development without a complete transfer of the technology? I don't see how. Of course both sides need to sign a contract before the complete transfer of technology. In this case, they also decided to form a joint venture. I don't see any bull. This all normal business activity. The abnormalities began after the joint venture started up, when the people from Mose tried to implement standard methods of confirming the calorimetry, and the people from Defkalion removed the Mose equipment without discussion. That was a red flag! As soon as the Greeks went home and the people from Mose got a chance to the test correctly, they discovered it does not work. They asked the Greeks for clarification. They got none. So, after a while they told their potential customers it does not work and they put the company out of business. If they had not done that they would probably be facing criminal charges. Let's see the timeline . . . January 2013 Gamberale goes to the DGT laboratories in Vancouver to copy them. Sets up a duplicate lab in Milan. June 17, 2013 SA came to Milan to start the first test of the DGT technology in the new laboratory. Very soon the demos for the European companies started. July 2013 DGT asked DE to organize a live stream of a demo to broadcast to the ICCF18. July 23, 2013 ICCF18 live streaming. This challenging request by DGT [to do live streaming for ICCF18] . . . led DE to accelerate the clarification of some important technical aspects of the calorimetry which until then had been denied by DGT. To this end, overriding a gentlemen’s agreement, DE decided to undertake autonomous tests to identify any malfunctions of the calorimetry protocol. And . . . the jig was up. The results in the report were obtained right after ICCF18. They asked for clarification from DGT and on the commercial side DE immediately stopped/froze all negotiations with both Italian and foreign companies to protect [DE's] clients. So, it did not take them long to find the problem after they were allowed to look for it, and they took action immediately. I recall DE announced there were problems, and they cancelled all negotiations with clients. I did not follow the story after that. I would say DE are blameless, although perhaps they had an obligation to inform the public in more detail. When DE announced they had a problem, I thought: Ah, it didn't work. As everyone says, the damn flowmeter bit them on the butt. I did not realize the extent of it. I had no idea DGT forbid them from doing the test correctly, and removed equipment to stop them. That goes over the line. WAAY over the line. If I were a police investigator I would toss their offices and haul them in for questioning on the strength of that allegation. The gentleman's agreement was batty. That was a very stupid thing to agree too. If I had been there during the negotiations I would have raised hell as soon as DGT said that. I would not have agreed to any such thing, ever. In fact, if I had been Gamberale in Vancouver I would have demanded they do a proper verification or I would have called off the whole project. I have been fleeced enough times in business deals to know that you never trust anyone. You verify. That's called due diligence. If Gamberale did not confirm the flow rate in Vancouver, he did not perform due diligence. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Nuclear isomer
In reply to Bob Cook's message of Thu, 15 May 2014 17:38:02 -0700: Hi, Nucleons are little magnets. Different orientations mean differing amounts of magnetic energy, hence different energy states for the nucleus as a whole. Obviously there is one combination of orientations which is less stressed than any of the others. This is the ground state. (Actually there may be several that are equally stable). Dave already answered the linear momentum question. As for the angular momentum of the gamma ray, that comes from spin flipping of a nucleon, e.g. from -1/2 to +1/2. When flipping the spin of any single nucleon would only result in a higher energy state of the nucleus rather than a lower one, while the nucleus is already in an excited state, then you have what is known as a meta-stable state. IOW the nucleus is essentially stuck in an energy rich state because it can't get the angular momentum needed for the gamma ray by flipping the spin of a single nucleon, (flipping the spin of multiple nucleons concurrently is far less likely, hence the stuckedness. ;) Robin-- You stated: Different combinations of spin states show up as excited states of the nucleus. Usually these relax to the ground state in short order with emission of a gamma ray. How do spin states with no kinetic energy relax to a ground state with a gamma ray emission with both angular momentum (spin) and kinetic energy (linear momentum)? Where does the linear momentum come from? You raise the question: When does linear momentum need to be conserved? Is it conserved in nuclear transitions? Bob Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Nuclear isomer
In reply to Bob Cook's message of Thu, 15 May 2014 17:38:02 -0700: Hi, [snip] Robin-- You stated: Different combinations of spin states show up as excited states of the nucleus. Usually these relax to the ground state in short order with emission of a gamma ray. BTW, I should have said one or more gamma rays. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%
Here's an example of some early-adopter money starting to move into this space. The problem is, it's not available to just anyone, and in particular, they already closed it off for this fund. http://form-d.findthebest.com/l/162985/Lenr-Invest-Fund-I-LLC Lenr-Invest Fund I, LLC, which is in the Pooled Investment Fund business, filed a new Form D on May 13, 2014. Offering Details - The total reported offering size was $205,000. - Of this amount, Lenr-Invest Fund I, LLC sold $205,000 or (100% of the offering), with the first sale occuring on May 01, 2014. - The minimum investment for this offering was set at $15,000. Analysis of Offering - On average, companies in this industry sell 34.75% of the total offering size. $0 was reported remaining. - The average floor on investment size for companies in the Pooled Investment Fund industry is $100,000. - The method of investment was Equity. Registration Exemptions - The company reported the following exemptions: Rule 506(b). *Rule 506(b):* A federal and state registration exmeption provided under Regulation D. Allows the issuer to raise unlimited funds with no limitations on the number of accredited investos and up to 35 non-accredited investors. The issuer is not allowed to publicly solicit the offering. For more information on Rule 506 see Key Regulation D Rules. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 6:12 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Any steam engine stocks? I think that this is a good question and especially because many who support LENR would probably plow back any profits made from the Rossi announcement into RD. Rossi is the tip of the massive iceberg – capable of sinking the Titanic OPEC (or at least turning her back to port) but since AR admits to not understanding what is going on –this is a wide open field, needing only RD dollars and smart experienced researchers to explore all the angles.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Europe (DE) was a joint venture
There is nothing abnormal here. Before signing a contract, they'd better certify that what DGT had was legit. Or just don't sign. You said even a plumber could do that. So, before signing they were naive and just got slightly below the level of expertise of a plubler after the signing and just a bit above after the demo. This doesn't make sense. And you know this is absurd, because in the last paragraph you wrote The gentleman's agreement was batty. That was a very stupid thing to agree too. If I had been there during the negotiations I would have raised hell as soon as DGT said that. I would not have agreed to any such thing, ever. In fact, if I had been Gamberale in Vancouver I would have demanded they do a proper verification or I would have called off the whole project. I have been fleeced enough times in business deals to know that you never trust anyone. You verify. That's called due diligence. If Gamberale did not confirm the flow rate in Vancouver, he did not perform due diligence. Look, Gamberale is not naive. Or if he was, he should know better, since this probably wouldn't be his first time with him dealing with dishonesty. For example, when he dealt with Blacklight. He pulled out of before the final version of the paper before was sent to the journal (which was rejected). Even though, Blacklight kept citing his name in further papers and in the patent, even citing the name of the journal, as it were indeed accepted. One could suppose that he could had joined after the first version of the paper, but the thing it is he never took part in a paper from Blacklight. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Europe (DE) was a joint venture
He never took part after this incident. 2014-05-16 19:14 GMT-03:00 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com: There is nothing abnormal here. Before signing a contract, they'd better certify that what DGT had was legit. Or just don't sign. You said even a plumber could do that. So, before signing they were naive and just got slightly below the level of expertise of a plubler after the signing and just a bit above after the demo. This doesn't make sense. And you know this is absurd, because in the last paragraph you wrote The gentleman's agreement was batty. That was a very stupid thing to agree too. If I had been there during the negotiations I would have raised hell as soon as DGT said that. I would not have agreed to any such thing, ever. In fact, if I had been Gamberale in Vancouver I would have demanded they do a proper verification or I would have called off the whole project. I have been fleeced enough times in business deals to know that you never trust anyone. You verify. That's called due diligence. If Gamberale did not confirm the flow rate in Vancouver, he did not perform due diligence. Look, Gamberale is not naive. Or if he was, he should know better, since this probably wouldn't be his first time with him dealing with dishonesty. For example, when he dealt with Blacklight. He pulled out of before the final version of the paper before was sent to the journal (which was rejected). Even though, Blacklight kept citing his name in further papers and in the patent, even citing the name of the journal, as it were indeed accepted. One could suppose that he could had joined after the first version of the paper, but the thing it is he never took part in a paper from Blacklight. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Europe (DE) was a joint venture
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: There is nothing abnormal here. Before signing a contract, they'd better certify that what DGT had was legit. Or just don't sign. I agree! I wouldn't have signed. Or, as I said, when Gamberale was in Vancouver he should have test the flow rate. You said even a plumber could do that. So, before signing they were naive and just got slightly below the level of expertise of a plubler after the signing and just a bit above after the demo. This doesn't make sense. You are right. It does not make sense. I agree they were naive. As I said, they failed to perform due diligence. Look, Gamberale is not naive. He seems naive to me. Or if he was, he should know better, since this probably wouldn't be his first time with him dealing with dishonesty. Yes, that is the definition of naivete. Some people never learn, even from experience. They are cheated time after time, even in old age. For example, when he dealt with Blacklight. He pulled out of before the final version of the paper before was sent to the journal (which was rejected). Even though, Blacklight kept citing his name in further papers and in the patent . . . Perhaps he is unaware of that? Perhaps he has not noticed they are using his name? Maybe he does not read Blacklight's publications, so he did not notice. They are obscure. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Europe (DE) was a joint venture
Come on Jed. So Kim is also naive? Is Cyclone also naive? -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Europe (DE) was a joint venture
Well, I must admit, Cyclone is only slightly naive, but still... 2014-05-16 21:59 GMT-03:00 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com: Come on Jed. So Kim is also naive? Is Cyclone also naive? -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Europe (DE) was a joint venture
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Come on Jed. So Kim is also naive? Yes, unfortunately, he is, in my opinion. This is not the first time he accepted a result without careful consideration, and without sufficient proof. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Europe (DE) was a joint venture
I wish you'd believe me he did not get the result in that way. :) Oh, well, what can I do! That's life! Beggars are not choosers! Hehe! But did I learn a lot of physics and I will always be thankful, despite whatever the outcome of this story is! 2014-05-16 22:49 GMT-03:00 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: [image: Boxbe] https://www.boxbe.com/overview This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (jedrothw...@gmail.com) Add cleanup rulehttps://www.boxbe.com/popup?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxbe.com%2Fcleanup%3Ftoken%3DN15%252BL9Xt05KS%252FEJ1emt2hKon2f0Qs5ZTkbvTIB%252FM69cSfvIfEgvsGhhmvMbYGynsbaVpGHWFma6qyOFsFspadkBsXBOOTrj%252Bp1svv0jSbK%252F93BcnUBvwNPAcUdPdpTxpG8jWJ%252FJHMpk%252Faioxml7x8g%253D%253D%26key%3DA2LekvyOlbYY1BnchQ0y9z5C%252FoA5yyxX8I8a5tDMH80%253Dtc_serial=17276605110tc_rand=1021743876utm_source=stfutm_medium=emailutm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADDutm_content=001| More infohttp://blog.boxbe.com/general/boxbe-automatic-cleanup?tc_serial=17276605110tc_rand=1021743876utm_source=stfutm_medium=emailutm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADDutm_content=001 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Come on Jed. So Kim is also naive? Yes, unfortunately, he is, in my opinion. This is not the first time he accepted a result without careful consideration, and without sufficient proof. - Jed -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
