RE: [Vo]:Gamma fractionalization and the DDL via Quantum dots
-Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com In reply to Bob Higgins's message: Isn't the problem with this scenario that the ground state H/D atom must GIVE UP energy to enter the DDL state. RvS: Actually this may not be so far from the truth. Consider a situation where lots of Hydrinos/Deuterinos as forming and giving up energy as they do, resulting in a large population of shrunken atoms. If the occasional fusion reaction happens and the energy is used to inflate a few thousand of the millions of Hydrinos that are present, then no one would notice the fusion reaction. JB: The dynamics of gain could happen either way. Exotherm on shrinkage to DDL, followed by endotherm on forced expansion is one way; but endotherm to DDL followed by exotherm on expansion works as well. In either event the fusion reaction, which would be novel and not mainstream fusion, and it would balance the books in the sense of providing the net exotherm but not by a hot photon. This allows LENR to merge with CQM in a unique way which can be molded to meet all of the reported results - especially when it happens with Ni58 +D → Ni60. RvS: The only problem I have with this scenario is the time factor, i.e. the distance from the nuclear reaction to the Hydrinos, and the speed of light. IOW how would such a reaction be able to compete with gamma emission? JB: The revise mechanics of the gammaless reaction is what is answered more elegantly by Hagelstein in his latest suggestion. According to Ahern, who attended the most recent Swartz/Hagelstein presentation at MIT, PH now proposes that the reaction does not really happen until the excess energy is already dissipated. That time reversed delay is what makes the underlying reaction novel. In effect, this is actually NOT gamma fractionalization at all. It is a QM book balancing act. There never is or never was a gamma to deal with. ≫ RvS: I guess the answer depends on the gamma emission time. If it's order E-17 seconds, then light can travel about 3 nm in that time. So thousands of Hydrinos would need to be packed into a sphere with a radius of less than 3 nm. This doesn't seem very likely to me, unless they are magnetically bound together in a huge cluster (not impossible, the magnetic binding energy could be significant, and on the order of chemical binding energies). JB: As mentioned, the time factor doesn't matter if the gamma reaction never happens. A substituted QM reaction does not really involve the same dynamics. This type of QM explanation works best with the deep species - DDL, for the reasons mentioned in the original post, which is going all the way to phonons is too large a ratio, even for QM. Mills' formula actually does not predict this DDL species, since his value for dark matter comes up on the low side of the actual value. Naudts' value does work. ≫ RvS: BTW, IRH would also appear to fill the bill in this scenario. JB: Yes, I have been equating IRH with DDL, but there is one big difference. ≫ RvS: This notion has one other point in its favor: The fusion reaction wouldn't happen in the first place unless the cluster is present... In this regard IRH *may* be more likely than Hydrino clusters. JB: Exactly. When there is this kind of pseudo-fusion reaction, nothing dramatic happens until after the energy has already been dissipated, and then what we have is only the QM balancing act… which is to say a novel form of quantum mechanics where a new isotope appears without a gamma at all. This is NOT related to thermonuclear fusion ! and there is no gamma, ever. But of course the mass to be converted to energy has to be the same in both cases. You seem to favoring the terminology of IRH over DDL and that is fine with me, however, DDL invokes Dirac, which is wise - and also it is not necessarily limited to two dimensions as is IRH which means the reaction can occur in a fully loaded quantum dot, which is fully entangled to begin with. The quantum dot at 10 nm can have the correct number of deuterons to make it all happen. But this also implies 3D instead of 2D, so that is another reason to use DDL instead of IRH or hydrino. Better yet, Df/D is a designation which would refer to deep fractional deuterium, and we can define it from the start to match results (hopefully from Mizuno in November. Jones attachment: winmail.dat
[Vo]:Properties of ubiquitous DDL state H?
As a thought experiment I asked myself, What would I observe if DDL state hydrogen was ubiquitous?. What follows may be naive, please feel free to say so. We have talked about creating and/or using DDL state hydrogen as part of LENR, but if this DDL state exists as has been described, DDL hydrogen (we can call it Df/H) may be very stable because it cannot interact with photons. It is of such small size that it would readily pass through containers and equalize the pressure on the inside and outside. It would be very difficult to create a pressure difference in the ubiquitous gas. Because of this, we wouldn't see pressure effects of this as a gas. In an RGA, it wouldn't show because you wouldn't be able to produce the ionized species to accelerate. In effect, it could be all around us and within condensed matter in arbitrary density. So how could it be detected? You might compare Df/H to a gas of stable neutrons. If stable neutrons could exist, they would cause spontaneous isotopic shifts from thermal collisions with atoms. The neutron gas density would decline and one would observe isotopic shifts. But Df/H gas would not behave as neutrons - once the Df/H began to penetrate the electron cloud of another nucleus it would experience a smaller Coulomb repulsion [than H] and would still provide a largely elastic collision. However, it seems that Df/H could still cause spontaneous isotopic shift/transmutation from nuclear reactions that would statistically occur in some thermal collisions - at a much greater rate than with H. Could such thermal collisions with a ubiquitous Df/H be responsible for observed but unexplained spontaneous radioactive decay? What other behaviors would be expected of a ubiquitous Df/H gas? What would refute its existence? Bob Higgins
RE: [Vo]:Properties of ubiquitous DDL state H?
From: Bob Higgins As a thought experiment I asked myself, What would I observe if DDL state hydrogen was ubiquitous?… In effect, it could be all around us and within condensed matter in arbitrary density. So how could it be detected? One thought is that being dense, stable and neutral – the core of earth could consist mostly of Df/H instead of, or in addition, to iron. Some of that large population of df/H (dark matter) would continually reinflate releasing the 3.6 keV x-ray to provide the heat which we know is being formed continually - and then come to the surface. On the way to the surface, these warm protons, now reinflated, would combine with carbon to form petroleum. There is good evidence that at least half of all petroleum derives from “another source” than the decay of plant material. Jones
RE: [Vo]:Properties of ubiquitous DDL state H?
“Abiogenic” is the word I was trying to remember… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin From: Bob Higgins As a thought experiment I asked myself, What would I observe if DDL state hydrogen was ubiquitous?… In effect, it could be all around us and within condensed matter in arbitrary density. So how could it be detected? One thought is that being dense, stable and neutral – the core of earth could consist mostly of Df/H instead of, or in addition, to iron. Some of that large population of df/H (dark matter) would continually reinflate releasing the 3.6 keV x-ray to provide the heat which we know is being formed continually - and then come to the surface. On the way to the surface, these warm protons, now reinflated, would combine with carbon to form petroleum. There is good evidence that at least half of all petroleum derives from “another source” than the decay of plant material. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Properties of ubiquitous DDL state H?
Agree, Our weather disturbances are inflating vacuum. It bends and lenses electromagnetic radiation (light and Doppler). We are all decaying in a cosmic wash and rinse cycle. Stewart Darkmattersalot On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *From:* Bob Higgins As a thought experiment I asked myself, What would I observe if DDL state hydrogen was ubiquitous?… In effect, it could be all around us and within condensed matter in arbitrary density. So how could it be detected? One thought is that being dense, stable and neutral – the core of earth could consist mostly of Df/H instead of, or in addition, to iron. Some of that large population of df/H (dark matter) would continually reinflate releasing the 3.6 keV x-ray to provide the heat which we know is being formed continually - and then come to the surface. On the way to the surface, these warm protons, now reinflated, would combine with carbon to form petroleum. There is good evidence that at least half of all petroleum derives from “another source” than the decay of plant material. Jones
RE: [Vo]:Gamma fractionalization and the DDL via Quantum dots
The following message did not appear, presumably because it contained a table, which has been dropped. From: Axil Axil * Rossi saw 512KeV gamma from positrons in his early reactors. No, he didn’t. Rossi says over and over that there is no gamma radiation. He says Focardi’s theory had predicted gamma, but none was ever observed. * In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was expected by Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up were not meaningful during the guests time in the room. Of course the results were meaningful, but negative. That is what Bianchini clearly states. This is copied from the report. * no significant radiation above background, summarized here: [table from Bianchini report deleted as vortex sever does not permit images]
Re: [Vo]:Gamma fractionalization and the DDL via Quantum dots
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Ø Rossi saw 512KeV gamma from positrons in his early reactors. No, he didn’t. Rossi says over and over that there is no gamma radiation. He says Focardi’s theory had predicted gamma, but none was ever observed. On the other hand, Celani said he did measure gamma radiation during Rossi's test. Rossi was very upset with him for bringing in the meters. I do not know what to make of it, but that is what happened. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Gamma fractionalization and the DDL via Quantum dots
Why would Rossi enclose his reactor in LEAD if no gamma's were ever seen? Is it in his interest to mislead the world in believing that no gammas were seen, I think it would be. It would keep the NRC out of his business. Is Rossi totally honest in everything he says, I think he is not. Are you deluding yourself when you believe Rossi's statements on radiation from his reactor? I think you are. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *The following message did not appear, presumably because it contained a table, which has been dropped.* *From:* Axil Axil Ø Rossi saw 512KeV gamma from positrons in his early reactors. No, he didn’t. Rossi says over and over that there is no gamma radiation. He says Focardi’s theory had predicted gamma, but none was ever observed. Ø In this article, it is noted that Rossi and Focardi had a twin gamma ray detector set up in order to detect e+e- annihilation that was expected by Focardi based on previous experiments. The results from that set up were not meaningful during the guests time in the room. Of course the results were meaningful, but negative. That is what Bianchini clearly states. This is copied from the report. · *no significant radiation above background*, summarized here: [table from Bianchini report deleted as vortex sever does not permit images]
Re: [Vo]:Gamma fractionalization and the DDL via Quantum dots
question is the dose... Rossi mostly said that ther was no dangerous radiation, not much above baclground. a peak, eg at 511kev is not necessarily a danger yet can be detected. from ed Storms books and papers it is clear there are x-rays, but not much and there is a cutoff energy... section 4.6 of the science of LENr talk of it. 2014-09-30 19:43 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Ø Rossi saw 512KeV gamma from positrons in his early reactors. No, he didn’t. Rossi says over and over that there is no gamma radiation. He says Focardi’s theory had predicted gamma, but none was ever observed. On the other hand, Celani said he did measure gamma radiation during Rossi's test. Rossi was very upset with him for bringing in the meters. I do not know what to make of it, but that is what happened. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Gamma fractionalization and the DDL via Quantum dots
The point about gamma radiation is a theoretical one. In order to claim that a polariton condensate can fractionalize gamma frequencies, there must be gamma radiation produces by LENR in some circumstances at the least. Jones primary position states that LENR does not produce gamma radiation because LENR is not a nuclear process. Therefore, gamma level radiation cannot be produced in any conceivable event. This is the same position that Mills takes. Jones cannot accept that gamma fractionalization can be so complete. I states that gamma is produced is some situations but can be completely fractionalized in LENR, especially by LENR+; the LENR of the Ni/H reactor. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: question is the dose... Rossi mostly said that ther was no dangerous radiation, not much above baclground. a peak, eg at 511kev is not necessarily a danger yet can be detected. from ed Storms books and papers it is clear there are x-rays, but not much and there is a cutoff energy... section 4.6 of the science of LENr talk of it. 2014-09-30 19:43 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Ø Rossi saw 512KeV gamma from positrons in his early reactors. No, he didn’t. Rossi says over and over that there is no gamma radiation. He says Focardi’s theory had predicted gamma, but none was ever observed. On the other hand, Celani said he did measure gamma radiation during Rossi's test. Rossi was very upset with him for bringing in the meters. I do not know what to make of it, but that is what happened. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Gamma fractionalization and the DDL via Quantum dots
In reply to frobertcook's message of Tue, 30 Sep 2014 09:32:26 +0200: Hi, [snip] Bob In semi conductors electrons r enter and seem to change the energy states of all the electrons in the semi conductor over a considerable distance associated with QM system of the SC. TMK it's instantaneous. ...but could you tell the difference between instantaneous and the speed of light? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno, Rossi copper transmutation
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 1:07 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 2:54 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: If it happened nobody would notice. Yes. I think it would be indistinguishable from an elastic collision (if the two situations are different). Eric That analogy assumes the excited nucleus immediately reverts or fissions back into the original parts. However, if there is a significant time delay before fission occurs and the excited nucleus is able to migrate to different site during that delay, then when fission does occur it will cause a local temperature increase at the different site. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Gamma fractionalization and the DDL via Quantum dots
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Tue, 30 Sep 2014 07:12:23 -0700: Hi, [snip] You seem to favoring the terminology of IRH over DDL and that is fine with me, however, DDL invokes Dirac, which is wise - and also it is not necessarily limited to two dimensions as is IRH which means the reaction can occur in a fully loaded quantum dot, which is fully entangled to begin with. I see no reason why sheets of IRH can't be stacked on top of one another such as to magnetically attract. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno, Rossi copper transmutation
In reply to H Veeder's message of Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:39:12 -0400: Hi, [snip] On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 1:07 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 2:54 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: If it happened nobody would notice. Yes. I think it would be indistinguishable from an elastic collision (if the two situations are different). Eric That analogy assumes the excited nucleus immediately reverts or fissions back into the original parts. However, if there is a significant time delay before fission occurs and the excited nucleus is able to migrate to different site during that delay, then when fission does occur it will cause a local temperature increase at the different site. There isn't time for it migrate. The fission to either He3 + n or T + p happens in about 1E-22 sec. For this not to happen, it would have to fission back to D+D in less time than that. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
RE: [Vo]:Gamma fractionalization and the DDL via Quantum dots
From: Axil Axil Jones primary position states that LENR does not produce gamma radiation because LENR is not a nuclear process. Therefore, gamma level radiation cannot be produced in any conceivable event. This is the same position that Mills takes. Axil - this is incorrect, except for Mills. As mentioned, after discovering from Ahern, who went to the lecture at MIT- that Hagelstein also believes that gamma radiation cannot be produced in any conceivable LENR event, there is no good reason not to support the major part of his theory. It is QM based. You have badly misinterpreted what he has been saying, as I was also doing. He actually seldom mentions gamma rays, because there are none at all. IOW gammas do not exist in the LENR reaction because it is not a thermonuclear reaction - which is precisely what I have been saying all along. You have been claiming they are emitted, but then absorbed. That is not Hagelstein’s view – far from it! I was unaware of that precise detail. In fact, the energy of the reaction has been completely dissipated before it ever occurs. That is pure QM, in the sense of time reversal. Gammas are thermonuclear. They cannot be absorbed easily, and especially not by polaritons or plasmons. Jones cannot accept that gamma fractionalization can be so complete. I states that gamma is produced is some situations but can be completely fractionalized in LENR, especially by LENR+; the LENR of the Ni/H reactor. Yes that part is right – I cannot accept your version - because for one thing, there is no support for it on the technical level nor on the practical level. In short, there is no expert opinion support for the viewpoint of fractionalization, as you have described it. Certainly, it is not what Hagelstein believes – if his theory is what you had been using as your authority. Jones
[Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with exposure http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/monitoring-and-movement-of-persons-with-exposure.htmland tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of flu-like symptoms.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
I think humanity is closing in on the realization that all of this pulsed electromagnetic radiation ( 2 billion watts or more in the US) is actually bad for us. The '70s heralded Ebola with the advent of microwave point to point communications in Africa communities. I think they are cooking the monkeys and/or bats RNA. 3G/4G is making it worse. In the US kids can't breathe, 7 million pigs have died, 70 percent of Florida's citrus trees are dying and millions of starfish are dissolving. Let's Party! On Tuesday, September 30, 2014, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with exposure http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/monitoring-and-movement-of-persons-with-exposure.htmland tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of flu-like symptoms.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Well, they are flu-like but far more severe. Once the person comes down with a full blown case, no one would confuse it with ordinary flu. It is more like the 1918 avian flu pandemic. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. That's is completely wrong! The CDC is within sight of my office and I know people who work there. News from the CDC is in the Metro section of Atlanta newspapers often. I assure you they are working night and day assessing the impact and taking steps to deal with it. Those people know what they are doing. They are skilled, brave and effective. Until recently they were working on shoestring budgets, in WWII era facilities that were falling down around their ears. (No kidding: the buildings were rotting away so badly they had heavy equipment falling through the floors.) After 9/11 Uncle Sam came up with money to build more modern facilities, but they are still working on tight budgets and accomplishing a great deal. What is frightening about this situation are members of Congress who despise science and want to cut back the CDC and the NIH. They have no idea what is at stake. The administration is paying attention. Obama was here at the CDC recently. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: I think humanity is closing in on the realization that all of this pulsed electromagnetic radiation ( 2 billion watts or more in the US) is actually bad for us. That is not likely to be causing the epidemic in Africa. It did not cause the 1918 pandemic. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Africa was not in the midst of a flu epidemic so they were able to screen for flu like symptoms as a trigger for quarantine. Moreover your assertion that there are discernible differences between this season's flu symptoms and those of early stage Ebola is not only reckless, the aforelinked CDC guidelines provide nothing in the way of such criteria. Here is their criteria http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/clinician-information-us-healthcare-settings.html : Illness in a person who has both consistent symptoms and risk factors as follows: 1) Clinical criteria, which includes fever of greater than 38.6 degrees Celsius or 101.5 degrees Fahrenheit, and additional symptoms such as severe headache, muscle pain, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain, or unexplained hemorrhage; On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: I think humanity is closing in on the realization that all of this pulsed electromagnetic radiation ( 2 billion watts or more in the US) is actually bad for us. That is not likely to be causing the epidemic in Africa. It did not cause the 1918 pandemic. - Jed
[Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Right, that was most likely Radio frequencies and other military transmissions going thru birds 1921 radio towers in NY coincided with large polio virus outbreaks and also later in LA. I posted some maps and articles on my blog. Some people at the time thought it might be RF radiation On Tuesday, September 30, 2014, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jedrothw...@gmail.com'); wrote: ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: I think humanity is closing in on the realization that all of this pulsed electromagnetic radiation ( 2 billion watts or more in the US) is actually bad for us. That is not likely to be causing the epidemic in Africa. It did not cause the 1918 pandemic. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 7:22 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: That's is completely wrong! The CDC is within sight of my office and I know people who work there. News from the CDC is in the Metro section of Atlanta newspapers often. I assure you they are working night and day assessing the impact and taking steps to deal with it. Those people know what they are doing. They are skilled, brave and effective. You just tangled with the wrong guy, Jed. I was the one who contacted the authors of Nature's cover story on AIDS epidemiology (May et al) in 1987 to correct their model -- and guess how I knew about the error? Some grad students at the U of IL had been at the summer seminars held at the CDC and the CDC was relying on the erroneous model -- propagating it uncritically to the students who were then coming back to tell the campus at the U of IL that the AIDS epidemic was over. Indeed, it was according to the model. The correction by May referred to this as some confusion I believe.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Moreover your assertion that there are discernible differences between this season's flu symptoms and those of early stage Ebola is not only reckless, the aforelinked CDC guidelines provide nothing in the way of such criteria. I did not say that. I said once you get a full-blown case you can tell. It is not possible to tell at an early stage without extensive testing, and by the time you finish the tests, the patient may be in dire condition, or dead. That is scary, but it is a fact. That is what the CDC people have been saying. Anything that looks like the flu should be taken seriously, especially if there is the slightest chance the patient may have come in contact with ebola. One thing that would help a lot would be if everyone gets a flu vaccination. That way, any flu-like symptoms will probably not be the flu, so the doctors can look for something else. I say probably not because some people come down with the flu even after getting the vaccination. I did, a few years ago. It was a mild case. Many diseases start off looking like the flu, or like some other common disease. Disease symptoms are often the same in the early stages of an infection. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: You just tangled with the wrong guy, Jed. I was the one who contacted the authors of Nature's cover story on AIDS epidemiology (May et al) in 1987 to correct their model -- and guess how I knew about the error? Some grad students at the U of IL had been at the summer seminars held at the CDC and the CDC was relying on the erroneous model . . . Gee. Did I say that everyone at the CDC is a perfect genius and they have never made a mistake? I do not remember saying that. In my experience, all scientists makes mistakes, because science is hard. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: ...discernible differences between this season's flu symptoms and those of early stage Ebola is not only reckless, the aforelinked CDC guidelines provide nothing in the way of such criteria. ... It is not possible to tell at an early stage without extensive testing And: 1) They are shedding virus during this stage 2) There has been no mention of flu season in CDC documents about Ebola 3) Let alone a model put forth of the impact of this on containment. If you know those guys and respect them, give one of them a call and do it ASAP.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Here is a good article about how ebola would be treated in the U.S.: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/08/what-would-happen-if-someone-got-ebola-in-america/375928/ This is how it was, in fact, treated recently in Atlanta, when two infected doctors were airlifted in. One of them was later interviewed in the Atlanta Journal. He described it like this. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: ... It is not possible to tell at an early stage without extensive testing And: 1) They are shedding virus during this stage 2) There has been no mention of flu season in CDC documents about Ebola Of course they are concerned about the similarity! They have discussed this in the news. They recommended everyone get a vaccination, as I just said. 3) Let alone a model put forth of the impact of this on containment. Do you think the public would understand the model? Do you expect them to work a miracle by coming up with a magic method of instantly determining it is ebola? If you are a qualified expert I expect the CDC people working on models will share their data and findings. You should not expect them to drop what they are doing to put a technical analysis on a web site for your benefit. For that matter, it might be out there somewhere already, even if you have not found it. I am sure that doctors and medical researcher who call them are given web page links as needed. If you know those guys and respect them, give one of them a call and do it ASAP. They are doing the best that anyone can. You seem to be demanding the impossible. Anyway, the news reports that someone in the U.S. just came down with ebola in Texas. The patient has been isolated. It has probably not spread. The two patients brought back from Africa and treated in Atlanta did not infect anyone, and they have both been discharged. They are still recovering but they are in no danger and there is no danger they will spread the disease. What more can you demand? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: ... It is not possible to tell at an early stage without extensive testing And: 1) They are shedding virus during this stage 2) There has been no mention of flu season in CDC documents about Ebola Of course they are concerned about the similarity! They have discussed this in the news. They recommended everyone get a vaccination, as I just said. Good. URL? I've been searching on Google news for weeks to no avail. 3) Let alone a model put forth of the impact of this on containment. Do you think the public would understand the model? Do you expect them to work a miracle by coming up with a magic method of instantly determining it is ebola? I expect them to modify their containment economics model not for the public but for funding agencies and other mobilizations.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Why is it that off topic posts like flu season don't get a Vort kicked off the list when other off-topic posts like christianity get a vort kicked off? On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 4:08 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with exposure http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/monitoring-and-movement-of-persons-with-exposure.htmland tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of flu-like symptoms.
Re: [Vo]:Gamma fractionalization and the DDL via Quantum dots
Rossi knows that in order to get his reactors to be approved in the USA, he needs to show zero nuclear effects. He KNOWS it is nucular, but to the authorities he will be saying showing NO nucular effects. none. By the time he sells ten thousand units, the NRC gets wise and has no capability to reign him in. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:43 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Ø Rossi saw 512KeV gamma from positrons in his early reactors. No, he didn’t. Rossi says over and over that there is no gamma radiation. He says Focardi’s theory had predicted gamma, but none was ever observed. On the other hand, Celani said he did measure gamma radiation during Rossi's test. Rossi was very upset with him for bringing in the meters. I do not know what to make of it, but that is what happened. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Kevin sez: Why is it that off topic posts like flu season don't get a Vort kicked off the list when other off-topic posts like christianity get a vort kicked off? You have eloquently expressed a cross we must all bare: Life is unfair. Get over it. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson svjart.orionworks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Kevin, if you find this objectionable, all you have to do is say so and I'll not post another response on this topic. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: Why is it that off topic posts like flu season don't get a Vort kicked off the list when other off-topic posts like christianity get a vort kicked off? On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 4:08 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with exposure http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/monitoring-and-movement-of-persons-with-exposure.htmland tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of flu-like symptoms.
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Tue, 30 Sep 2014 20:52:07 -0400: Hi, [snip] Here is a good article about how ebola would be treated in the U.S.: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/08/what-would-happen-if-someone-got-ebola-in-america/375928/ This is how it was, in fact, treated recently in Atlanta, when two infected doctors were airlifted in. One of them was later interviewed in the Atlanta Journal. He described it like this. - Jed The problem is not what happens to an infected person once they go to hospital. The problem is how many people have they inadvertently been in contact with during the early stages when the symptoms are still mild and they went to the chemist to buy the Tylenol? (and how many people have those people been in contact with etc. etc.) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 7:46 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: The problem is not what happens to an infected person once they go to hospital. ... I see two additional potential problems: - A strain eventually develops that becomes airborne. Perhaps not with this outbreak, but in the next 10-20 years, say. - If it does not become airborne during that time, perhaps there will be a research team from the Netherlands who will try to help it along in the name of science. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Properties of ubiquitous DDL state H?
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: You might compare Df/H to a gas of stable neutrons. If stable neutrons could exist, they would cause spontaneous isotopic shifts from thermal collisions with atoms. In thought experiments, this is how I think of f/H -- as somewhat larger and slightly positively charged neutrons (statistically speaking), which, should they react with something, the reaction would be proton capture rather than neutron capture. (I assume the electron would be ejected.) This leads me to believe that a large quantity of the stuff passing through the wall of a device would be quite detectable; not from the f/H themselves, but from their reactions with surrounding material. Neutrons definitely lead to activation and interact with their surroundings in this manner; if a comparable quantity of f/H did not interact on a similar level (but in a different way), there would need to be a good explanation for this. This possibility of a large interaction cross section in turn leads me to the conclusion that f/H is an unlikely candidate for dark matter, which presumed to be the majority of matter in the universe and, I understand, is thought to be able to pass through normal matter without interacting. (Not that I'm that big a fan of the idea of dark matter.) Eric
Re: [Vo]:Properties of ubiquitous DDL state H?
I wrote: This possibility of a large interaction cross section ... It occurs to me that f/H will necessarily undergo collisions just like any other species (including neutrons). Presumably that kinetic energy will occasionally be passed on in inelastic collisions and reinflate the erstwhile epistemologically undetectable creatures. It is hard to see how a gas of f/H could avoid such collisions and reappear from out of the void into the world of scientifically detectable entities. Eric
RE: [Vo]:Properties of ubiquitous DDL state H?
From: Eric Walker Bob Higgins wrote: You might compare Df/H to a gas of stable neutrons. If stable neutrons could exist, they would cause spontaneous isotopic shifts from thermal collisions with atoms. In thought experiments, this is how I think of f/H -- as somewhat larger and slightly positively charged neutrons (statistically speaking), which, should they react with something, the reaction would be proton capture rather than neutron capture. One property which would make f/H very different – at least in how it interacts with other particles – i.e. different from a “large neutron” is that the strong force is not a factor in the interactions with other particles. The electrons of f/H are tightly bound, but effectively shield the strong force so it does not come into play. The strong force interaction is essentially the main reason why the neutron can react so easily, as it much stronger than at close distance than electromagnetism. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Properties of ubiquitous DDL state H?
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: The electrons of f/H are tightly bound, but effectively shield the strong force so it does not come into play. I believe leptons are transparent to the strong interaction and so will provide precious little shielding against it. Eric
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
Because it has the OT header. Limited OT postings with that header are allowed because they are easy to filter. Without the header and embedded in on topic threads they annoy. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone - Reply message - From: Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season Date: Tue, Sep 30, 2014 9:53 PM Why is it that off topic posts like flu season don't get a Vort kicked off the list when other off-topic posts like christianity get a vort kicked off? On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 4:08 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with exposure and tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of flu-like symptoms.
RE: [Vo]:Properties of ubiquitous DDL state H?
This was not verbalized very well – the “shielding” would be in keeping the other particle at bay instead of neutralizing the force. This would be more like an offset or a protective cage than a shield. From: Eric Walker The electrons of f/H are tightly bound, but effectively shield the strong force so it does not come into play. I believe leptons are transparent to the strong interaction and so will provide precious little shielding against it. Eric
RE: [Vo]:Properties of ubiquitous DDL state H?
BTW – back to Bob’s thought experiment. One possibility which we have talked about in the past as a resource for this species is the solar wind, which could contain a percentage of Df/H. Supposedly the species would be formed in the Sun’s corona. Most of it cannot escape but some would be pushed out in solar storms. Even if it is a small percentage of solar wind – it would be cumulative over billions of years and most would end up in the oceans. This opens up the possibility of “harvesting” Df/H from the deep oceans. Possibly this could be done with a magnet ! Adds a whole new meaning to “trolling”… You might compare Df/H to a gas of stable neutrons. If stable neutrons could exist, they would cause spontaneous isotopic shifts from thermal collisions with atoms. In thought experiments, this is how I think of f/H -- as somewhat larger and slightly positively charged neutrons (statistically speaking), which, should they react with something, the reaction would be proton capture rather than neutron capture. One property which would make f/H very different – at least in how it interacts with other particles – i.e. different from a “large neutron” is that the strong force is not a factor in the interactions with other particles. The electrons of f/H are tightly bound, but effectively shield the strong force so it does not come into play. The strong force interaction is essentially the main reason why the neutron can react so easily, as it much stronger than at close distance than electromagnetism. Jones
Nuclear bucket brigade - was Re: [Vo]:Mizuno, Rossi copper transmutation
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 5:51 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to H Veeder's message of Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:39:12 -0400: Hi, [snip] On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 1:07 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 2:54 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: If it happened nobody would notice. Yes. I think it would be indistinguishable from an elastic collision (if the two situations are different). Eric That analogy assumes the excited nucleus immediately reverts or fissions back into the original parts. However, if there is a significant time delay before fission occurs and the excited nucleus is able to migrate to different site during that delay, then when fission does occur it will cause a local temperature increase at the different site. There isn't time for it migrate. The fission to either He3 + n or T + p happens in about 1E-22 sec. For this not to happen, it would have to fission back to D+D in less time than that. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html I wonder if the decay time of 1E-22 secs is theoretically derived or if it is empirically derived. If it is empirically derived then it might not always be true, but I will accept your point for the time being and switch to a process involving neutron stripping, which is where our exchange began. Imagine a line of nickel nuclei with one deuterium nucleus in the gap between the first two nickel nuclei. The remaining gaps are each occupied with a hydrogen nucleus. Imagine just the deuterium and hydrogen nuclei oscillating back and forth in unison in the gaps. When the deuterium nucleus gets close enough to connect with the second Nickel nucleus it gives up its neutron to that nickel nucleus. Since the second nickel nucleus has an extra neutron it is now in an excited state. While it is excited the hydrogen nucleus on the left retreats and the hydrogen nucleus on the right is approaches. Eventually the hydrogen nucleus on the right connects with the excited nickel nucleus and the extra neutron in the excited nickel nucleus is transferred to it. (Technically speaking this is not a reverse reaction since it involves a new association, but this is a work in progress which you and others are helping to complete so forgive me if I do not use always use the best terms). The neutron transfers continue so that energy is moved from the beginning of the line to the end of the line. I illustrated the process here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dzUFl91yhYGk5CTnAX_eXCYPgIemqlTF3XuQkRQf_hA/edit?usp=sharing The process is like a bucket brigade but instead of water being transferred it is fire. Incidentally while looking at some youtube videos of bucket brigades I stumbled on a video where fire is moved instead of water. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsfJZfHARLk Anyway, if the general conept is not inane, I am sure there are other possible bucket brigades involving different nuclei. Harry
Re: Nuclear bucket brigade - was Re: [Vo]:Mizuno, Rossi copper transmutation
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 9:25 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: When the deuterium nucleus gets close enough to connect with the second Nickel nucleus it gives up its neutron to that nickel nucleus. I think you're going to need a powerful force to make this part happen. Think of the proton that is part of the deuteron and the nickel nucleus as extremely powerful, oppositely magnetized metal spheres. They're going to do whatever they can to avoid each other, including sending the deuteron along a curved path out of the line of collision with the nickel nucleus if such a path is allowed by the velocity of the deuteron. Eric
Re: Nuclear bucket brigade - was Re: [Vo]:Mizuno, Rossi copper transmutation
I wrote: Think of the proton that is part of the deuteron and the nickel nucleus as extremely powerful, oppositely magnetized metal spheres. I didn't say that very well. They're like two magnets with the same poles facing each other (these magnets are monopoles, so there's no other pole to allow them to flip around). Also, magnetism isn't the force involved, technically speaking, but the general physical interaction is how I think about it. Eric
Re: Nuclear bucket brigade - was Re: [Vo]:Mizuno, Rossi copper transmutation
Now I'll give *you* something to believe. I'm just one hundred and one, five months and a day.' 'I can't believe *that!*' said Alice. 'Can't you?' the Queen said in a pitying tone. 'Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes.' Alice laughed. 'There's no use trying,' she said 'one *can't* believe impossible things.' 'I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 12:39 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: I wrote: Think of the proton that is part of the deuteron and the nickel nucleus as extremely powerful, oppositely magnetized metal spheres. I didn't say that very well. They're like two magnets with the same poles facing each other (these magnets are monopoles, so there's no other pole to allow them to flip around). Also, magnetism isn't the force involved, technically speaking, but the general physical interaction is how I think about it. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Four Ways to View the Multiverse
I agree with Eric on this issue. Dave -Original Message- From: Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sat, Sep 27, 2014 5:01 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Four Ways to View the Multiverse On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: And Mills may be correct when it comes to his belief in determinism. QM could have been wrong for 100 years. The pilot wave theory might have been dropped way too quickly. I've always had feeling that the Copenhagen interpretation involves some hand waving. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Gamma fractionalization and the DDL via Quantum dots
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 8:26 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: I have previously suggested that a dense cluster might also absorb the energy in the form of kinetic energy distributed among thousands of densely clustered atoms. I see that Robin and Jones were talking about hydrino reinflation yesterday, so my observation was a little late. One detail to add is that, it seems to me, unless there are a sufficient number of Mills catalysts lying around to further shrink wayward hydrinos that are thinking of reinflating, I assume they would all eventually reinflate through (endothermic) inelastic collisions. You'd start out with normal matter, get hydrinos, and end with (fully) normal matter. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Gamma fractionalization and the DDL via Quantum dots
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Why would Rossi enclose his reactor in LEAD if no gamma's were ever seen? In Rossi's own 2010 patent, he states that the lead (and boron) shield is there to protect from harmful radiation: In particular, the inventive apparatus is coated by boron layers and lead plates both for restraining noxious radiations and transforming them into energy, without generating residue radiations and radioactive materials. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Gamma fractionalization and the DDL via Quantum dots
I wrote: In Rossi's own 2010 patent, he states that the lead (and boron) shield is there to protect from harmful radiation: In particular, the inventive apparatus is coated by boron layers and lead plates both for restraining noxious radiations and transforming them into energy, without generating residue radiations and radioactive materials. Sorry, that's patent application, not patent. This is not a direct admission of seeing gammas. But it's a most relevant detail to keep in one's mind in assessing other statements from Rossi concerning ionizing radiation. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Off Topic: Flu Season
And so it begins exactly as I predicted: He went to the emergency room with flu like symptoms and they ... wait for it SENT HIM HOME http://www.nbcdfw.com/video/#!/news/local/Dallas-Hospital-Patient-Fighting-Ebola-Virus/277694491 . On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 6:08 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry but since none of the usual policy experts want to touch this with a ten-foot poll, it is shaping up to have some features in common with other civilization-impacting failures of policy experts with which this list is all-too familiar: Early symptoms of Ebola are flu-like and it is contagious during these flu-like symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot authorities has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures. Now THAT'S frightening! Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with exposure http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/monitoring-and-movement-of-persons-with-exposure.htmland tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of flu-like symptoms.
