Re: [Vo]:OT (really) - Re: How to filter messages

[Che]

On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Aldo Maggi  wrote:

> I apologize to use this list to answer "Che" but I do just because he
> wrote here instead than directly to me, obviously I know that the rules
> forbid it but I promise I will not do it any more.



Such endless hypocrisy.

I don't think you people grasp the historical nature of such as this
e-List. It IS a historical record -- and people in future WILL be judging
many of you (as far as that goes) for the exhibition of such narrow-minded,
short-term interests, pursued in solely for immediate, personal, grubby
gain. Much as the likes of Andrea Rossi have done.

DO NOT believe outside others will be seeing your posts as you yourselves
now see them. They WILL be far more objective than too many of you all are
being now.

These near-future 'historians' WILL also be far more knowledgeable about
the political-economic context of the World -- AND of the World-historic
import if the phenomenon of Cold Fusion. The slanted anti-communist bias of
some of you -- downright police-state in nature for some of you -- WILL be
seen for what it is, in the larger World context, come that time. Because
if Cold Fusion IS the Future -- then this e-List WILL have a larger future
historical importance than it has now.

Really. Some of you. Your posts will NOT age well.
Pfft.

Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi 'won'

[Che]

On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:55 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Rossi is not as sure footed as he lets on. His small low temperature
> reactor cluster did not work at the start of the 1 year test. Rossi had to
> substitute the quad 250,000 watts tiger reactor cluster. To this day, Rossi
> still doesn't understand why those small low temperature reactors failed to
> function.
>
> Without understanding the underlying theory that underpins his technology,
> Rossi must use trial and error. Like a mouse in a maze each day can bring a
> wrong turn that can result in failure.  Yet Rossi projects a facade of
> confidence and defiance. This state of ever present insecurity must be
>  hard to conceal from his competitors, his supporters and especially his
> detractors.
>


Rossi's primary motive seems to literally be to get rich as quick as
possible. As you say above -- his modus operandi leaves much to be desired.
I only took an interest in this money-grubber when he was promising steam
gushing out of a container for pennies. It was the container and its
contents I hoped about -- not Rossi's Wall Street cred.

Frankly, I wish this little weasel would just disappear with the few
millions he did get his hands on -- and leave Science alone. If he DOES
finally 'make a better mousetrap' -- well, then so be it. But no thanks to
his secretive, proprietary anti-REAL-Science bullshit.

[Vo]:Wind energy vs NxtGen Fission

[Jones Beene]

In a prior thread, it was proposed that nuclear fission can evolve into 
an acceptable solution to our future energy needs using LENR as the key 
advancement.


There is a compelling case for the proposition that a new and improved 
small-scale fission device - using mass-produced modules re-engineered 
as subcritical (using non-enriched fuel) can be as clean as say - wind 
energy at half the cost or less ... If... that is, the virtual neutron 
is real. Cheap neutrons permit breeding fissile fuel from natural U and 
burning waste at the same time . Experimental replication of the neutron 
experiment here:


http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0608229

The fission implementation is based on the same large dose of optimism 
as is LENR but there is a  partially-proved hypothesis - that simple 
microwave techniques will produce virtual neutrons which are reactive 
with fissile isotopes. If you buy into that ... and the literature is 
impressive, then subcritical nuclear fission may be among the best ways 
to proceed, even better than Pd-D cold fusion itself. Fission is "almost 
renewable" (million year supply with ocean mining and breeding) and 
clean in the sense of burning its own waste, requiring little inventory 
at the start, with no toxic release during operation.


Wind energy is starting to make a useful contribution in the big 
picture, and that is a good thing, but make no mistake, wind is not 
entirely clean. The silly argument about bird-kill is specious, but the 
argument about hidden coal usage is serious. These facts are often 
glossed over by promoters but any fool can see the implication of an 
array of turbines mounted on heavy steel columns with deep concrete 
bases and thousands of towers required to produce GWhrs. In fact, Wind 
requires more steel by far (per unit of energy produced) than any other 
options.


The problem is unavoidable because making steel and concrete both 
require lots of coal, and typically that coal is in its dirtiest, 
cheapest form. Steel production represents hidden, up-front pollution in 
large quantities. Coal, gas or nuclear also use steel and concrete as 
structural materials, but a factor of 200 times less of it, when 
compared to actual electrical output. DoE has all the data confirming this.


On average, wind requires about 200 times as much steel and concrete 
structural material as a natural gas turbine plant of the same capacity. 
Factoid: a two-megawatt (faceplate) wind turbine weighs about 250 tons 
(or more), including the tower, nacelle, generator housing and blades, 
but it only works near full capacity about 40% of the time. It requires 
about half a ton of coal to make a ton of steel. Add another 25 tons of 
coal used in making the cement to secure the tower against strong gales 
- and in the end, you’re talking 150 tons of coal used per real MWhr of 
capacity for the structure. And the ash from the coal used to make the 
wind turbine is more radioactive than nuclear waste - see:


https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/

This argument may be overblown for effect, but it makes the point that 
wind energy is not totally clean and other alternative could be 
acceptable due to lower cost. Nuclear fission (new and improved) has a 
chance to become the real clean-machine of future energy "if" LENR is 
incorporated as the source of cheap neutrons. With a modular fission 
design incorporating a natural U fuel target irradiated by virtual 
neutrons, direct conversion and a cycle where waste is burned in in 
situ, along with breeding - fission would definitely be a contender ... 
Fukushima notwithstanding.


Ironically, the big promoters of Wind energy these days are steel mills, 
concrete factories and the Sierra Club - strange bedfellows.

Re: [Vo]:Why Rossi 'won'

[Axil Axil]

Rossi is not as sure footed as he lets on. His small low temperature
reactor cluster did not work at the start of the 1 year test. Rossi had to
substitute the quad 250,000 watts tiger reactor cluster. To this day, Rossi
still doesn't understand why those small low temperature reactors failed to
function.

Without understanding the underlying theory that underpins his technology,
Rossi must use trial and error. Like a mouse in a maze each day can bring a
wrong turn that can result in failure.  Yet Rossi projects a facade of
confidence and defiance. This state of ever present insecurity must be
 hard to conceal from his competitors, his supporters and especially his
detractors.

On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:22 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> The folks on Vortex-l that in the past have suggested Rossi was a fraud
> etc must be busy eating crow based on the significant silence of their
> anti-Rossi claque.
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Che 
> *Sent: *Friday, July 21, 2017 7:58 PM
> *To: *vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject: *[Vo]:Why Rossi 'won'
>
>
>
>
>
> This has likely already been pointed out here -- but I'll point it out now
> (again), if it hasn't.
>
>
>
>
>
> Here’s The Settlement—Getting The License Back Was Rossi’s Top Priority
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> The bottom line appears to be that IH 'settled' -- because they simply
> could not *prove* fraud (which perhaps, never actually took place -- at
> least the way IH sees it). Simple as that. So they would have _lost_ the
> case if it had gone to trial -- and been liable for whatever _they_ would
> have been liable for.
>
>
>
> Rossi OTOH, strategically forewent the money he was 'owed': because he
> valued the IP over everything else -- and is smart enuff to know when to
> 'fold' and walk away.
>
>
>
>
>
> Is that it, or close enuff..?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Why Rossi 'won'

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

The folks on Vortex-l that in the past have suggested Rossi was a fraud etc 
must be busy eating crow based on the significant silence of their anti-Rossi 
claque.

Bob Cook



From: Che
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 7:58 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Why Rossi 'won'


This has likely already been pointed out here -- but I'll point it out now 
(again), if it hasn't.


Here’s The Settlement—Getting The License Back Was Rossi’s Top 
Priority


The bottom line appears to be that IH 'settled' -- because they simply could 
not *prove* fraud (which perhaps, never actually took place -- at least the way 
IH sees it). Simple as that. So they would have _lost_ the case if it had gone 
to trial -- and been liable for whatever _they_ would have been liable for.

Rossi OTOH, strategically forewent the money he was 'owed': because he valued 
the IP over everything else -- and is smart enuff to know when to 'fold' and 
walk away.


Is that it, or close enuff..?

Re: [Vo]:OT (really) - Re: How to filter messages

[Charles]

A former East German I once talked to at a conference banquet opined 
that in both democratic and autocratic systems similar personality types 
will end up as leaders, but in a democracy there is a mechanism to 
remove them. With that in mind, the historical Tibetan approach of 
picking, at random, an alert looking child and educating them with the 
skills needed to be a leader, at least reduces the probability of ending 
up with a rogue individual.


On 26/07/2017 19:50, Aldo Maggi wrote:

and, to be
frank, it is difficult to achieve in democracy because People, as I
told before, tend to act in in a childish way (very selfish),

[Vo]:OT (really) - Re: How to filter messages

[Aldo Maggi]

I apologize to use this list to answer "Che" but I do just because he
wrote here instead than directly to me, obviously I know that the rules
forbid it but I promise I will not do it any more.

I'm Italian, I've always voted for PCI till it was in existence, I'm 67
and participated to the rebellions at Rome University at the end of the
'60s, and in 1968 I was in agreement with Praha occupation by Warsaw
Pact and think that Brezneev was a great stateman, but I cannot
overlook that we failed to convince People that Marxism has the same
roots as Jesus' teachings (e.g.one Parable for all, the one of the
Workers in the Vineyard Matt 16:1-20) and is fairer than capitalism; I
think that Ho Chi Minh, as we say in Italy, "is rolling in his grave"
looking at the heirs of Viet Minh and Viet Cong's manufacturing the
hated American Nike shoes!  People, all over the World, want a better
life, to satisfy his needs, not only the basic ones and do not care
about those who are not part of his family and his neighbours, it is
the duty of the Governments to promote an ethical behaviour, and, to be
frank, it is difficult to achieve in democracy because People, as I
told before, tend to act in in a childish way (very selfish), and since
there are polls every one or two years, ethical laws would  penalize
the Party and the men who would like to enforce them.  
Having said that, I'm a pragmatic and think that the best we can do is
to act in order to have a better Capitalism based on real life, i.e. on
"things" rather than on "finance" which is the horrible thing which is
squeezing the Middle Class and favouring very few persons "horribly"
rich and increasing the number of the poorest.

One last thing: you must be young, what you write maybe upsets some
here but in my ears sounds ridiculous, you must have read a lot of
Subcomandante Marcos' sayings! 

Last, last thing, I could never stand El Che, he was an idealist who
sent to die a lot of "campesinhos" without giving them a chance to win,
and cannot stand people (especially girls) wearing T-shirts with that
image of El Che, if you search a bit deeply you'll find what really he
looked like, though he was not, an insignificant person.
I always liked Fidel who was able to stand as David against Goliath ...
and we know who Goliath was.

Aldo :-)   

Il giorno mar, 25/07/2017 alle 20.54 -0400, Che ha scritto:
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 5:31 PM, Aldo Maggi 
> wrote:
> > Well, I use Linux Evolution and Claws-mail and not Windows Outlook,
> > but
> > I do not think that the system is different:
> > write a filter adding the addresses of people whose mails you do
> > not
> > want to read (e.g.  comandantegri...@gmail.com ) and send them to a
> > special Folder (e.g. Noisy_people)
> 
> 
> And what does this make YOU then, Aldo..? No wonder you people are
> marginalized generally, as a group... and support money-grubbing,
> secretive cads like Rossi.
> 
> And don't compare my political persuasion to your situation, OK? We
> have defined the politics of the entire Planet for the past century
> -- whatever your brainwashing tells you. Sometime I just can't wait
> for the looming economic collapse of the Capitalist order... simply
> because of the underhanded crud I have to deal with from certain
> self-righteous people.
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[ROGER ANDERTON]

> Over 90% of folks who believe in UFOs also subscribe to conspiracy theories. 
> They need to to explain the 100% lack of any UFO evidence.
because there is supposed to be secret agencies that hide it.
Another method used by the establishment is to ignore the evidence.
Based on Tesla technology there is alien signals being picked up by SETI but 
"they" ignore them.
My talk:
SETI ignoring ETI signals Roger Anderton 1st June 2017

  
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   |

  |
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||  
SETI ignoring ETI signals Roger Anderton 1st June 2017
 Tesla and ETI Music talk by Roger Anderton 1st June 2017 Alien signals based 
on old physics pre-Einstein being i...  |   |

  |

  |

 
my next talk will be that Einstein has been mistranslated and hence 
misunderstood
therefore modern physics based on a mountain of big mistakes








On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 5:24 PM, Brian Ahern  wrote:
>
> So now we rely on conspiracy theories when the technology cannot be made to 
> work.
>
>
> Occam's Razor would suggest an inability of the  inventor, not his government 
> agents acting ill.
>
>
> Over 90% of folks who believe in UFOs also subscribe to conspiracy theories. 
> They need to to explain the 100% lack of any UFO evidence.
>
>
> My guess is that Rossi supporters are also UFO buffs.
>
>
>
> 
> From: bobcook39...@hotmail.com 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 3:25 PM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: RE: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>  
>
> MORE INFORMATION:
>
>  
>
> http://worldnpa.org/abstracts/abstracts_paperlink_6835.pdf
>
> The Revolutionary Plasma Power Technology of Josef Papp
> worldnpa.org
> The Revolutionary Plasma Power Technology of Josef Papp Barry Springer NPA 
> Web Seminar November 24, 2012 Updated April 7, 2013
>
>
>  
>
> It seems the FBI raided the Company developing the Papp engine in 2013 and 
> the Government took the technology in to the dark IMHO.
>
>  
>
> TOO BAD.
>
>  
>
> I wonder if the company has been charged with a crime? Or merely given an 
> order curtailing their ability to communicate—i.e., speak.  They (the real 
> people affected) should check with the ACLU.
>
>  
>
> The reported raid sounds typical of a shady attempt to curtail R 
>
>  
>
> Bob Cook
>
>  
>
>
> Subject: RE: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>
>  
>
> The following may help understanding:
>
>  
>
> http://www.integrityresearchinstitute.org/PappEngine-Valone.pdf
>
>  
>
> Bob Cook
>
> From: Axil Axil
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:05 PM
> To: vortex-l
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>
>  
>
> ·        One of the big mysteries of the Papp engine is understanding the 
> Papp engine fuel preparation device. What does that device do and why is it 
> important to the function of the Papp engine? All the Papp engine replicators 
> have discounted the need to use this fuel prep device and try to get the Papp 
> engine to work without prepared fuel. Papp knew that prepared fuel was 
> critically important to getting the engine to work. Three months before his 
> death in 1989, Papp destroyed all the fuel he had prepared so that no one 
> could ever get his engine to work ever again. The engine laid useless inside 
> his workshop. That engine was his alone forever and could never be shared 
> with the world.
>
>  
>
> The cavitation theory of the Papp engine provides the reason why fuel 
> preparation is essential. A intense shock wave is required to form the ultra 
> dense crystal nature of the fuel in the alternate paired cylinder. Without 
> that shockwave, active fuel cannot be formed. The fuel preparation device 
> produced ultra dense water and latter in the fuel to act as a bootstrap or 
> initial plasma shock wave so that cavitation could occur in the paired 
> cylinder. Without that first shock wave, recurring fuel formation does not 
> begin in the alternate cylinder when the compression of the water vapor/gas 
> is underway.
>
>  
>
> Papp used this prepared fuel to disintegrate a 5/8 inch stainless steel pipe 
> when he demoed his Papp common in the desert.
>
>  
>
> o    Edit
>
> o    
>
> o    
>
> ·         
>
>  
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
> I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based 
> device. 
>
>  
>
> In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water 
> crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of 
> the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure environment 
> inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed thereby producing 
> ultra dense water crystals.  
>
>  
>
> For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to high 
> compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the cylinder wall 
> induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against the cylinder 
> wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall,