Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
Understood. You have the right to be wrong. :-) One thing you can do to convince yourself. See if you can find a glow plug for any purpose that looks like what you saw in those pictures. See if you can find a glow plug with a white heating end. $100 says you can't find a glow plug that looks like the one pictured. If you accept my challenged and I loose, I'll pay you when I get back to the states. But If I win, you can order stuff for me that I need for my gen2 reactor and ship it to me. Deal? Jojo PS. Like I said, I became intimiately familiar with different kinds of glow plugs but I've never seen one like those pictured. - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: I believe you are mistaken. The round white end is the insulating ceramic. If you look closely, you can barely see the protruding electrode. The ground electrode can not be clearly seen. Either it can not be seen in this picture due to its angle or it has been cut off. You are entitled to your opinion and I will defend to the death your right to have it. I just disagree! :-) T
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
Sorry. Double Post. I did not mean to repost this since I've already said it. This is the BS of this retrograde Mailing System. If this were a forum, I could have simply edited the post or deleted it. This email explaining that I double posted should have been unneccesary. Jojo
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
Understood. You have the right to be wrong. :-) Tell you what... there's $100 for you if you can find a glow plug that looks like the one pictured. Long threaded stem, tall white ceramic insulator, short white insulator with a small protruding electrode. Just like the picture. If you win, I'll pay you when I get back to the States. If I win, that is you can't find a glow plug just like the one pictured, then you buy and ship a couple of items for me that I need to enhance my gen2 reactor. Care for little friendly wager? Let's say 1 week to find a glow plug just like the picture? Deal? Hey, this could be the easiest $100 you've ever made. Or it could be the easiest $100 I've ever made. :-) Jojo - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: I believe you are mistaken. The round white end is the insulating ceramic. If you look closely, you can barely see the protruding electrode. The ground electrode can not be clearly seen. Either it can not be seen in this picture due to its angle or it has been cut off. You are entitled to your opinion and I will defend to the death your right to have it. I just disagree! :-) T
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
Huh? I'm sayin' it's NOT a glow plug. Have you read the thread? T On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 6:41 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Understood. You have the right to be wrong. :-) Tell you what... there's $100 for you if you can find a glow plug that looks like the one pictured. Long threaded stem, tall white ceramic insulator, short white insulator with a small protruding electrode. Just like the picture. If you win, I'll pay you when I get back to the States. If I win, that is you can't find a glow plug just like the one pictured, then you buy and ship a couple of items for me that I need to enhance my gen2 reactor. Care for little friendly wager? Let's say 1 week to find a glow plug just like the picture? Deal? Hey, this could be the easiest $100 you've ever made. Or it could be the easiest $100 I've ever made. :-) Jojo - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: I believe you are mistaken. The round white end is the insulating ceramic. If you look closely, you can barely see the protruding electrode. The ground electrode can not be clearly seen. Either it can not be seen in this picture due to its angle or it has been cut off. You are entitled to your opinion and I will defend to the death your right to have it. I just disagree! :-) T
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
The phrase I just disagree threw me off. I understood you to mean you disagreed with me. No harm done. We can move on. Jojo - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! Huh? I'm sayin' it's NOT a glow plug. Have you read the thread? T On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 6:41 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Understood. You have the right to be wrong. :-) Tell you what... there's $100 for you if you can find a glow plug that looks like the one pictured. Long threaded stem, tall white ceramic insulator, short white insulator with a small protruding electrode. Just like the picture. If you win, I'll pay you when I get back to the States. If I win, that is you can't find a glow plug just like the one pictured, then you buy and ship a couple of items for me that I need to enhance my gen2 reactor. Care for little friendly wager? Let's say 1 week to find a glow plug just like the picture? Deal? Hey, this could be the easiest $100 you've ever made. Or it could be the easiest $100 I've ever made. :-) Jojo - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: I believe you are mistaken. The round white end is the insulating ceramic. If you look closely, you can barely see the protruding electrode. The ground electrode can not be clearly seen. Either it can not be seen in this picture due to its angle or it has been cut off. You are entitled to your opinion and I will defend to the death your right to have it. I just disagree! :-) T
[Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
HOT OFF THE PRESS Peter seems to have provided confirmation that indeed DGT reactions are modulated by sparking rate. Control via sparking. Same thing I have been saying all along. Now... if I could only get people listening to my next speculation - Carbon Nanostructure-based LENR2 Jojo
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
Right, you win. good guess the spark plug look strange, but no glow plug have such insulator (checked). maybe is is a multi-ground sparkplug like that one [image: Images intégrées 1] or something uncommon for car (the end seems round, maybe is it round to spark differently through the reactor). 2012/7/16 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com ** HOT OFF THE PRESS Peter seems to have provided confirmation that indeed DGT reactions are modulated by sparking rate. Control via sparking. Same thing I have been saying all along. Now... if I could only get people listening to my next speculation - Carbon Nanostructure-based LENR2 Jojo
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
Just another observation. The spark plugs look as though they have been operated at a very high temperature. The writing on the plug which starts out blue, after operation have turned a rather rust color, indicative of high temperature use. And the general color of the metal of the spark plug that is visible has turned various colors, also the look of high temperature operation. Robert Dorr At 01:44 PM 7/15/2012, you wrote: Sorry for the double post and a correction, I said the part was Ford Motorcraft Number SP-509, but it should be Ford Motorcraft Number SP-507. Robert Dorr
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
One look at the temp spike on one of those DGT charts, and I knew it had to be sparks. No other mechanism can raise temp that suddenly and drop it just as quickly. You can use a fast acting heater like a glow plug, that would raise the temp up quickly, but that would not drop it quickly. The temp drop would be more gradual. However, if you are ionizing gases, the temps would rise quickly and then drop quickly. Jojo - Original Message - From: Alain Sepeda To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! Right, you win. good guess the spark plug look strange, but no glow plug have such insulator (checked). maybe is is a multi-ground sparkplug like that one or something uncommon for car (the end seems round, maybe is it round to spark differently through the reactor). 2012/7/16 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com HOT OFF THE PRESS Peter seems to have provided confirmation that indeed DGT reactions are modulated by sparking rate. Control via sparking. Same thing I have been saying all along. Now... if I could only get people listening to my next speculation - Carbon Nanostructure-based LENR2 Jojo
[Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
Hey Gang, A while back, I was harping on the use of sparks for LENR reactors. I remember quite a vigorous exchange of ideas as to why sparks may be or may not be a critical component. There was discussion as to whether RF or sparks was the important thing. I was speculating that the temp. spike we find in DGT charts were the result of sparks firing and rapidly increasing the temp of the H2 and then rapidly dropping it again. I speculated that sparks was the mechanism for modulating the reaction rates in DGT's reactors. Well, after the publication of DGT's pictures of their reactors, we find not 1 but 2 spark plugs. But even with the evidence, we still had a few people here questioning the sparks. There was speculation that the spark plugs were being used to plug a hole only, and serve as a high pressure/high temp plug only; which to me was ludicruous as we find a host of other thermocouple connections that could serve the same purpose. Anyways, it turned out I was right about sparks being a critical ingredient. Then I harped on Rossi's rationale for shifting to a fat-Cat design. I speculated that this was Rossi's attempt to try to achieve more efficient and consistent spark delivery. I then continued on and speculated that this design was probably a CVD reactor in disguise. I speculated that the goal was to grow Carbon Nanostructures on a nickel substrate. Well, evidence seems to be accumulating on that front as well. We find out that nickel use was reduced to a few grams (consistent with nickel being used as growth catalyst for Carbon nanostructures. not as a metal lattice for hosting a NAE.) Then we found out his gen 2 reactors did not have hydrogen canisters anymore. (Consistent with using a hydrocarbon gas to grow Carbon Nanostructures and wth concurrent release of free hydrogen ions. as used in CVD reactors.) Then we find out high temp (600c) operation, which was consistent with a NAE that is thermally stable. This is also the temp where CVD reactors work at. More importantly, this gen 2 Rossi eCats did not experience thermal runways. This is consitent with a reaction mechanism which was totally different from his earlier thermionic catalyst based reactor. So, evidence is mounting everyday regarding the use of Carbon Nanostructures. The point of this post is simply this. We here in the collective should try to focus on understanding this new mechanism, e.g. Carbon Nanostructure-based LENR - LENR2. Let's not waste our time discussing the theory, evidences, possibilities of older LENR paradigms such as FP, and others. LENR mechanisms are old, let's get on with LENR2. If we can get just half of the brain power in this collective to study LENR2, that would go a long ways in advancing the state of LENR research. Jojo
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
At the WM ILENRS-12 symposium, I was told that what is used by DGT and is shown in their pictures were not spark plugs, but actually were glow plugs. I was also told that DGT was having reliability problems with these devices. If true, how does this change the thinking about what DGT is using to stimulate/quench their reaction to form it into controlled pulses? Bob On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 2:43 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** Hey Gang, A while back, I was harping on the use of sparks for LENR reactors. I remember quite a vigorous exchange of ideas as to why sparks may be or may not be a critical component. There was discussion as to whether RF or sparks was the important thing. I was speculating that the temp. spike we find in DGT charts were the result of sparks firing and rapidly increasing the temp of the H2 and then rapidly dropping it again. I speculated that sparks was the mechanism for modulating the reaction rates in DGT's reactors. Well, after the publication of DGT's pictures of their reactors, we find not 1 but 2 spark plugs. But even with the evidence, we still had a few people here questioning the sparks. There was speculation that the spark plugs were being used to plug a hole only, and serve as a high pressure/high temp plug only; which to me was ludicruous as we find a host of other thermocouple connections that could serve the same purpose. Anyways, it turned out I was right about sparks being a critical ingredient. Then I harped on Rossi's rationale for shifting to a fat-Cat design. I speculated that this was Rossi's attempt to try to achieve more efficient and consistent spark delivery. I then continued on and speculated that this design was probably a CVD reactor in disguise. I speculated that the goal was to grow Carbon Nanostructures on a nickel substrate. Well, evidence seems to be accumulating on that front as well. We find out that nickel use was reduced to a few grams (consistent with nickel being used as growth catalyst for Carbon nanostructures. not as a metal lattice for hosting a NAE.) Then we found out his gen 2 reactors did not have hydrogen canisters anymore. (Consistent with using a hydrocarbon gas to grow Carbon Nanostructures and wth concurrent release of free hydrogen ions. as used in CVD reactors.) Then we find out high temp (600c) operation, which was consistent with a NAE that is thermally stable. This is also the temp where CVD reactors work at. More importantly, this gen 2 Rossi eCats did not experience thermal runways. This is consitent with a reaction mechanism which was totally different from his earlier thermionic catalyst based reactor. So, evidence is mounting everyday regarding the use of Carbon Nanostructures. The point of this post is simply this. We here in the collective should try to focus on understanding this new mechanism, e.g. Carbon Nanostructure-based LENR - LENR2. Let's not waste our time discussing the theory, evidences, possibilities of older LENR paradigms such as FP, and others. LENR mechanisms are old, let's get on with LENR2. If we can get just half of the brain power in this collective to study LENR2, that would go a long ways in advancing the state of LENR research. Jojo -- Regards, Bob Higgins
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
Doesn't look like glow plugs: http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8rh=n%3A15729261page=1 attachment: DGT_Spark.jpg
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
Who told you this? Somebody from DGT itself? Or someone else from the outside? Is this one of those hearsay again? And this person who told you this actually saw those devices or is he just speculating like the rest of us? Name Please? or does he prefer to be anonymous? LOL ... Those pictures were definitely spark plugs. I've never seen glow plug like that before. The heating end of glow plugs are constructed differently. Could this be another attempt at misdirection? Jojo - Original Message - From: Bob Higgins To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! At the WM ILENRS-12 symposium, I was told that what is used by DGT and is shown in their pictures were not spark plugs, but actually were glow plugs. I was also told that DGT was having reliability problems with these devices. If true, how does this change the thinking about what DGT is using to stimulate/quench their reaction to form it into controlled pulses? Bob On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 2:43 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Hey Gang, A while back, I was harping on the use of sparks for LENR reactors. I remember quite a vigorous exchange of ideas as to why sparks may be or may not be a critical component. There was discussion as to whether RF or sparks was the important thing. I was speculating that the temp. spike we find in DGT charts were the result of sparks firing and rapidly increasing the temp of the H2 and then rapidly dropping it again. I speculated that sparks was the mechanism for modulating the reaction rates in DGT's reactors. Well, after the publication of DGT's pictures of their reactors, we find not 1 but 2 spark plugs. But even with the evidence, we still had a few people here questioning the sparks. There was speculation that the spark plugs were being used to plug a hole only, and serve as a high pressure/high temp plug only; which to me was ludicruous as we find a host of other thermocouple connections that could serve the same purpose. Anyways, it turned out I was right about sparks being a critical ingredient. Then I harped on Rossi's rationale for shifting to a fat-Cat design. I speculated that this was Rossi's attempt to try to achieve more efficient and consistent spark delivery. I then continued on and speculated that this design was probably a CVD reactor in disguise. I speculated that the goal was to grow Carbon Nanostructures on a nickel substrate. Well, evidence seems to be accumulating on that front as well. We find out that nickel use was reduced to a few grams (consistent with nickel being used as growth catalyst for Carbon nanostructures. not as a metal lattice for hosting a NAE.) Then we found out his gen 2 reactors did not have hydrogen canisters anymore. (Consistent with using a hydrocarbon gas to grow Carbon Nanostructures and wth concurrent release of free hydrogen ions. as used in CVD reactors.) Then we find out high temp (600c) operation, which was consistent with a NAE that is thermally stable. This is also the temp where CVD reactors work at. More importantly, this gen 2 Rossi eCats did not experience thermal runways. This is consitent with a reaction mechanism which was totally different from his earlier thermionic catalyst based reactor. So, evidence is mounting everyday regarding the use of Carbon Nanostructures. The point of this post is simply this. We here in the collective should try to focus on understanding this new mechanism, e.g. Carbon Nanostructure-based LENR - LENR2. Let's not waste our time discussing the theory, evidences, possibilities of older LENR paradigms such as FP, and others. LENR mechanisms are old, let's get on with LENR2. If we can get just half of the brain power in this collective to study LENR2, that would go a long ways in advancing the state of LENR research. Jojo -- Regards, Bob Higgins
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
no spark gap on the photo, seems right. whether a glow or spark plug is a very important detail if a spark plug is needed, there is a needed quantity of energy that have to be electric, and this limit the COP. if only heat is used, that mean that the reactor itself, or another reactor, can provide the heat, so the COP can have no limit else the insulation and controllability 2012/7/15 Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com Doesn't look like glow plugs: http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8rh=n%3A15729261page=1
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
Let's put this misdirection attempt to rest once and for all. A glow plug requires low voltage to heat. (Usually between a few volts to 6 volts.) A glow plug does not require a tall ceramic insulatior. A glow plug has a long elongated cylinderical tube that contains the heating element inside. The pictures Terry posted from Amazon are glow plugs. A spark plug requires a tall insulator to prevent volatage leakage since it is fired using high voltages. A spark plug will have a long threaded part (f it is long reach), and a small gap at the end. The picture in DGT document is a spark plug. Any mechanic Joe blow will tell you that. Notice the tall ceramic insulator. I wonder what motivation people have in spreading this misdirection? Unbelievable how people can lie to your face nowadays and keep it cool. Unbelievable. BTW, a spark plug fired at 300 hz (18,000 RPM) will draw less than 100 watts. COP is not an issue if sparks are used. Jojo - Original Message - From: Alain Sepeda To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 10:59 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! no spark gap on the photo, seems right. whether a glow or spark plug is a very important detail if a spark plug is needed, there is a needed quantity of energy that have to be electric, and this limit the COP. if only heat is used, that mean that the reactor itself, or another reactor, can provide the heat, so the COP can have no limit else the insulation and controllability 2012/7/15 Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com Doesn't look like glow plugs: http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8rh=n%3A15729261page=1
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
I did not even know what a glow plug is, I must admit. It is used to start a diesel engine. I think Terry is right and the photo shows a spark plug. People who were there told me it is a spark plug. They also said Defkalion is having trouble because the spark plugs often fail. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
You mention that the plugs often fail. Could this be due to clogging of the spark gap by particles of nickel metal that get melted by the intense heat of the spark? I assume that an engineering solution to this problem will come soon once identified. If I recall DGT has suggested that their process does not rely upon heat directly to control the energy output. A question was asked about the effects of the magnetic field associated with the drive current flow and they stated that they did not wish to answer that until later. That response leads me to believe that the magnetic field modulates the heat generation mechanism in some manner. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, Jul 15, 2012 11:29 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! I did not even know what a glow plug is, I must admit. It is used to start a diesel engine. I think Terry is right and the photo shows a spark plug. People who were there told me it is a spark plug. They also said Defkalion is having trouble because the spark plugs often fail. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 6:11 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.comwrote: At the WM ILENRS-12 symposium, I was told that what is used by DGT and is shown in their pictures were not spark plugs, but actually were glow plugs. I was also told that DGT was having reliability problems with these devices. If true, how does this change the thinking about what DGT is using to stimulate/quench their reaction to form it into controlled pulses? I suspect DGT are trying to operationalize the research of researchers such as A.B. Karabut and George Miley, who have seen anomalous heat under glow discharge. http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/KarabutABxrayemissi.pdf http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MileyGHintensenon.pdf Karabut has put together a number of glow discharge studies. Most of the ones that I have seen involve deuterium; but there may be some, by someone, who used hydrogen and nickel, that may have provided a starting point. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
There was no attempt at misdirection on my part - I was simply recounting what I was told at WM. However, I don't believe that the person who told me had direct first-hand knowledge, and while he may have been mistaken, I don't think he was intentionally trying to mislead me. At first, I didn't think the statement made much sense - what would glow plugs be used for in a situation where there is no combustion? But, and I have no idea what devices are available ... Is it possible that a glow plug may exist that could be used as a filament for electron discharge as in an electron tube? Such a glow plug might still need the ceramic HV insulation. Electron discharge in the chamber would be more active in the cell than just sparking a spark plug. I thought I would post it for comment. Bob On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** Let's put this misdirection attempt to rest once and for all. A glow plug requires low voltage to heat. (Usually between a few volts to 6 volts.) A glow plug does not require a tall ceramic insulatior. A glow plug has a long elongated cylinderical tube that contains the heating element inside. The pictures Terry posted from Amazon are glow plugs. A spark plug requires a tall insulator to prevent volatage leakage since it is fired using high voltages. A spark plug will have a long threaded part (f it is long reach), and a small gap at the end. The picture in DGT document is a spark plug. Any mechanic Joe blow will tell you that. Notice the tall ceramic insulator. I wonder what motivation people have in spreading this misdirection? Unbelievable how people can lie to your face nowadays and keep it cool. Unbelievable. BTW, a spark plug fired at 300 hz (18,000 RPM) will draw less than 100 watts. COP is not an issue if sparks are used. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Sunday, July 15, 2012 10:59 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! no spark gap on the photo, seems right. whether a glow or spark plug is a very important detail if a spark plug is needed, there is a needed quantity of energy that have to be electric, and this limit the COP. if only heat is used, that mean that the reactor itself, or another reactor, can provide the heat, so the COP can have no limit else the insulation and controllability 2012/7/15 Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com Doesn't look like glow plugs: http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8rh=n%3A15729261page=1 -- Regards, Bob Higgins
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** I wonder what motivation people have in spreading this misdirection? Unbelievable how people can lie to your face nowadays and keep it cool. Unbelievable. Jojo, we don't need a conspiracy to explain this line of questioning. It's a legitimate question. Whether a spark plug is being used or whether there's glow discharge is something worth investigating, even if there is a good change the search will leads us back to spark plugs. The main reason the question is interesting is that there have been a large number of studies using glow discharge to produce anomalies heat. It is possible you could get a similar effect using spark plugs, even if the control mechanism is different. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
If and only if that thing we saw in DGT pictures is a glow plug. It is clearly a spark plug and people still attempt to lie about it. Yes, glow discharge is a legitimate line of research; but that is NOT what we are seeing with DGT reactors. It is clearly a spark plug. - Original Message - From: Eric Walker To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: I wonder what motivation people have in spreading this misdirection? Unbelievable how people can lie to your face nowadays and keep it cool. Unbelievable. Jojo, we don't need a conspiracy to explain this line of questioning. It's a legitimate question. Whether a spark plug is being used or whether there's glow discharge is something worth investigating, even if there is a good change the search will leads us back to spark plugs. The main reason the question is interesting is that there have been a large number of studies using glow discharge to produce anomalies heat. It is possible you could get a similar effect using spark plugs, even if the control mechanism is different. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
BTW, if glow discharge is your goal, you wouldn't use a glow plug. In glow plugs, the heating element is encapsulated in a sheath. I am presuming you wouldn't want that in a glow discharge reactor? Jojo - Original Message - From: Eric Walker To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: I wonder what motivation people have in spreading this misdirection? Unbelievable how people can lie to your face nowadays and keep it cool. Unbelievable. Jojo, we don't need a conspiracy to explain this line of questioning. It's a legitimate question. Whether a spark plug is being used or whether there's glow discharge is something worth investigating, even if there is a good change the search will leads us back to spark plugs. The main reason the question is interesting is that there have been a large number of studies using glow discharge to produce anomalies heat. It is possible you could get a similar effect using spark plugs, even if the control mechanism is different. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** BTW, if glow discharge is your goal, you wouldn't use a glow plug. In glow plugs, the heating element is encapsulated in a sheath. I am presuming you wouldn't want that in a glow discharge reactor? You're seeing pure ignorance on my part. I don't know anything about spark plugs, glow plugs or glow discharge. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
Understood. I got intimately familiar with glow plugs when I tried to use those for my Waste Vegetable Oil conversion for my GM Duramax van. One thing I found out, they don't last very long when used for continuous application of heat. Hence, my initial reaction with Bob's comments of a glow plug was one of irritation, at the blatant attempt at misdirection. Now that I know that that was not the intention, no harm done, we can move on. Jojo - Original Message - From: Eric Walker To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:29 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: BTW, if glow discharge is your goal, you wouldn't use a glow plug. In glow plugs, the heating element is encapsulated in a sheath. I am presuming you wouldn't want that in a glow discharge reactor? You're seeing pure ignorance on my part. I don't know anything about spark plugs, glow plugs or glow discharge. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: You mention that the plugs often fail. Could this be due to clogging of the spark gap by particles of nickel metal that get melted by the intense heat of the spark? That is my guess, but I have not heard that from anyone. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
If misdirection i don't think it is on that side. clearly it is a glow plug, typical for diesel engine, and it is logical since they activate the reactor with heat like Celani did in his experiments with Ni+ZrO . The photo is clear, and it is not melted powder effect, since the surface is round and smooth on the photo, and also either you protect the sparkplug from powder, and no melting, or you don't and it does not work with a sparkplug. using a glowplug for heating is very natural, since it is very resistant, cheap, and easy to find. about insulation, the insulator protect also from the heat of the diesel engine, and the size helps the servicing. maybe DGT use glow discharge, but not with those plugs. and even if DGT does not use glow, it can work too. 2012/7/15 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com ** Understood. I got intimately familiar with glow plugs when I tried to use those for my Waste Vegetable Oil conversion for my GM Duramax van. One thing I found out, they don't last very long when used for continuous application of heat. Hence, my initial reaction with Bob's comments of a glow plug was one of irritation, at the blatant attempt at misdirection. Now that I know that that was not the intention, no harm done, we can move on. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Monday, July 16, 2012 1:29 AM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** BTW, if glow discharge is your goal, you wouldn't use a glow plug. In glow plugs, the heating element is encapsulated in a sheath. I am presuming you wouldn't want that in a glow discharge reactor? You're seeing pure ignorance on my part. I don't know anything about spark plugs, glow plugs or glow discharge. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
And only if you want to waste your money. Like I said, they don't last very long when used continously as would be the case if DGT were using these to heat their reactors. A heating cartridge would make more sense for heating. I tried using glow plugs in my first generation reactors with so-so results. They tend to overheat and melt your ingredients. Hard to control heat output. They are designed to heat fast and furious. Controllability is not an issue for their intended application as Diesel engine preheaters as they are fired only for a few seconds. but, even in their intended application in diesel engines, they are one of the more frequently failing items. Jojo PS. Those pictures are definitiely spark plugs. No question about it. - Original Message - From: Alain Sepeda To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:14 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! using a glowplug for heating is very natural, since it is very resistant, cheap, and easy to find.
RE: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
It could be something as simple as a cultural thing… Do not the Brits use the term glow-plug instead of spark-plug? I do remember a conversation, although many many years ago, wherein a spark plug was referred to as a glow plug… -Mark From: Eric Walker [mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 9:48 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: I wonder what motivation people have in spreading this misdirection? Unbelievable how people can lie to your face nowadays and keep it cool. Unbelievable. Jojo, we don't need a conspiracy to explain this line of questioning. It's a legitimate question. Whether a spark plug is being used or whether there's glow discharge is something worth investigating, even if there is a good change the search will leads us back to spark plugs. The main reason the question is interesting is that there have been a large number of studies using glow discharge to produce anomalies heat. It is possible you could get a similar effect using spark plugs, even if the control mechanism is different. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
After surfing the different glow plugs on the web, I believe that Jojo is correct, that what is shown in the pictures offered by DGT are probably spark plugs. However, might there be misdirection in DGT's pictures? Would a glow plug screw in place of the spark plug in their reactor? DGT could have put the spark plugs in their reactor for the pictures, while they normally use glow plugs in those positions. The spare spark plug on the table was obvious and suspiciously left in the open. Another possibility is that DGT found that the glow plugs were wearing out too quickly and they modified their reactor for a different type of heater that would have greater life. Since they were left with the tapped glow plug holes, they plugged the holes with the spark plugs. The spark plugs are never shown connected, but everything else is shown connected. The comment from WM about DGT having trouble with the glow plugs not lasting long enough goes with what Jojo observes for a glow plug. I am not convinced either way. Bob On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** And only if you want to waste your money. Like I said, they don't last very long when used continously as would be the case if DGT were using these to heat their reactors. A heating cartridge would make more sense for heating. I tried using glow plugs in my first generation reactors with so-so results. They tend to overheat and melt your ingredients. Hard to control heat output. They are designed to heat fast and furious. Controllability is not an issue for their intended application as Diesel engine preheaters as they are fired only for a few seconds. but, even in their intended application in diesel engines, they are one of the more frequently failing items. Jojo PS. Those pictures are definitiely spark plugs. No question about it. - Original Message - *From:* Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Monday, July 16, 2012 2:14 AM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! using a glowplug for heating is very natural, since it is very resistant, cheap, and easy to find. -- Regards, Bob Higgins
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
I supposed DGT can replace spark plug for glow plugs to misdirect, but that would still not explain the temp spike. Sparks are the only mechanism that can bring H2 temps that high and then quickly back down again. Glow plugs will not result in a temp spike. When you look at the end plates of DGT reactors, you will notice that the thermocouples are very close to the spark plug. A series of sparks would quickly raise the temperature of the H2 gas in the vicinity of the sparks, which is also where the thermocouples are. Then a second later, the hot H2 gas diffuses and the temps are down again. Hence a temp spike. Jojo - Original Message - From: Bob Higgins To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 3:19 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! After surfing the different glow plugs on the web, I believe that Jojo is correct, that what is shown in the pictures offered by DGT are probably spark plugs. However, might there be misdirection in DGT's pictures? Would a glow plug screw in place of the spark plug in their reactor? DGT could have put the spark plugs in their reactor for the pictures, while they normally use glow plugs in those positions. The spare spark plug on the table was obvious and suspiciously left in the open. Another possibility is that DGT found that the glow plugs were wearing out too quickly and they modified their reactor for a different type of heater that would have greater life. Since they were left with the tapped glow plug holes, they plugged the holes with the spark plugs. The spark plugs are never shown connected, but everything else is shown connected. The comment from WM about DGT having trouble with the glow plugs not lasting long enough goes with what Jojo observes for a glow plug. I am not convinced either way. Bob On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: And only if you want to waste your money. Like I said, they don't last very long when used continously as would be the case if DGT were using these to heat their reactors. A heating cartridge would make more sense for heating. I tried using glow plugs in my first generation reactors with so-so results. They tend to overheat and melt your ingredients. Hard to control heat output. They are designed to heat fast and furious. Controllability is not an issue for their intended application as Diesel engine preheaters as they are fired only for a few seconds. but, even in their intended application in diesel engines, they are one of the more frequently failing items. Jojo PS. Those pictures are definitiely spark plugs. No question about it. - Original Message - From: Alain Sepeda To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:14 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! using a glowplug for heating is very natural, since it is very resistant, cheap, and easy to find. -- Regards, Bob Higgins
RE: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
Anyone who has spent time working on internal combustion engines (ICE) knows that when an ICE runs rich (too much fuel) it will eventually foul the sparkplugs with a dry powdery soot, which has a high carbon content. The sparkplug insulator turns black from these deposits and becomes conductive, thus, destroying the insulating function essential to its operation. This basically connects the center (hi-Voltage) electrode to ground thru these carbon deposits, and the spark no longer occurs, and the engine won't start. However, an interesting side note is that if you pull off the sparkplug cable from the sparkplug, and hold it a little bit away from the sparkplug, creating a spark-gap (you can hear the arcing), and try to start the engine, it will run. As soon as you put the cable back on the sparkplug, the engine will start to die; pull the cable a bit away and the engine will start firing again. you can only do this so long before the SP becomes so fouled that nothing will help. If any conductive particulates inside of a working LENR reactor get deposited on the sparkplug, it will eventually cause a similar failure. I'd be curious if using my above technique on a failing LENR reactor would at least keep it going for some time after it would have certainly failed to run. Wondered if the kind of spark-gaps used on large tesla coils might help, but they too have some kind of insulating element which would become fouled as well. the longer the insulator, the longer it runs. might buy you a few more hours/days, but eventually it would fail. Unless you put the entire hi-V supply inside the reactor, you're gonna need some kind of insulating element to separate the hi-V electrode from the reactor wall (which I assume is conductive and grounded). what if the entire reactor vessel, although metal/conductive, was floating (electrically that is!). no, you still need a return line. just don't see a way around this, other than eliminating the need for spark, or eliminating conductive particulates floating around (literally!). -mark From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:45 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! I supposed DGT can replace spark plug for glow plugs to misdirect, but that would still not explain the temp spike. Sparks are the only mechanism that can bring H2 temps that high and then quickly back down again. Glow plugs will not result in a temp spike. When you look at the end plates of DGT reactors, you will notice that the thermocouples are very close to the spark plug. A series of sparks would quickly raise the temperature of the H2 gas in the vicinity of the sparks, which is also where the thermocouples are. Then a second later, the hot H2 gas diffuses and the temps are down again. Hence a temp spike. Jojo - Original Message - From: Bob Higgins mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 3:19 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! After surfing the different glow plugs on the web, I believe that Jojo is correct, that what is shown in the pictures offered by DGT are probably spark plugs. However, might there be misdirection in DGT's pictures? Would a glow plug screw in place of the spark plug in their reactor? DGT could have put the spark plugs in their reactor for the pictures, while they normally use glow plugs in those positions. The spare spark plug on the table was obvious and suspiciously left in the open. Another possibility is that DGT found that the glow plugs were wearing out too quickly and they modified their reactor for a different type of heater that would have greater life. Since they were left with the tapped glow plug holes, they plugged the holes with the spark plugs. The spark plugs are never shown connected, but everything else is shown connected. The comment from WM about DGT having trouble with the glow plugs not lasting long enough goes with what Jojo observes for a glow plug. I am not convinced either way. Bob On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: And only if you want to waste your money. Like I said, they don't last very long when used continously as would be the case if DGT were using these to heat their reactors. A heating cartridge would make more sense for heating. I tried using glow plugs in my first generation reactors with so-so results. They tend to overheat and melt your ingredients. Hard to control heat output. They are designed to heat fast and furious. Controllability is not an issue for their intended application as Diesel engine preheaters as they are fired only for a few seconds. but, even in their intended application in diesel engines, they are one of the more frequently failing items. Jojo PS. Those pictures are definitiely spark plugs. No question about
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
I had a look at the multi-page Defkalion press release May of 2012, and on page 18 of the 35 page document there is a picture of one of the spark plugs laying on a table. It is somewhat unusual in that it has a very long threaded body. I did some looking and found a similar plug from Ford Motorcraft Number SP-509. They are almost the same, short of a body that is not quite threaded all the way to the tip. Anyway I have to say that it most certainly a spark plug and not a glow plug. Robert Dorr At 12:44 PM 7/15/2012, you wrote: I supposed DGT can replace spark plug for glow plugs to misdirect, but that would still not explain the temp spike. Sparks are the only mechanism that can bring H2 temps that high and then quickly back down again. Glow plugs will not result in a temp spike. When you look at the end plates of DGT reactors, you will notice that the thermocouples are very close to the spark plug. A series of sparks would quickly raise the temperature of the H2 gas in the vicinity of the sparks, which is also where the thermocouples are. Then a second later, the hot H2 gas diffuses and the temps are down again. Hence a temp spike. Jojo - Original Message - From: mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.comBob Higgins To: mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.comvortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 3:19 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! After surfing the different glow plugs on the web, I believe that Jojo is correct, that what is shown in the pictures offered by DGT are probably spark plugs. However, might there be misdirection in DGT's pictures? Would a glow plug screw in place of the spark plug in their reactor? DGT could have put the spark plugs in their reactor for the pictures, while they normally use glow plugs in those positions. The spare spark plug on the table was obvious and suspiciously left in the open. Another possibility is that DGT found that the glow plugs were wearing out too quickly and they modified their reactor for a different type of heater that would have greater life. Since they were left with the tapped glow plug holes, they plugged the holes with the spark plugs. The spark plugs are never shown connected, but everything else is shown connected. The comment from WM about DGT having trouble with the glow plugs not lasting long enough goes with what Jojo observes for a glow plug. I am not convinced either way. Bob On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Jojo Jaro mailto:jth...@hotmail.comjth...@hotmail.com wrote: And only if you want to waste your money. Like I said, they don't last very long when used continously as would be the case if DGT were using these to heat their reactors. A heating cartridge would make more sense for heating. I tried using glow plugs in my first generation reactors with so-so results. They tend to overheat and melt your ingredients. Hard to control heat output. They are designed to heat fast and furious. Controllability is not an issue for their intended application as Diesel engine preheaters as they are fired only for a few seconds. but, even in their intended application in diesel engines, they are one of the more frequently failing items. Jojo PS. Those pictures are definitiely spark plugs. No question about it. - Original Message - From: mailto:alain.sep...@gmail.comAlain Sepeda To: mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.comvortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:14 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! using a glowplug for heating is very natural, since it is very resistant, cheap, and easy to find. -- Regards, Bob Higgins
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
I had a look at the multi-page Defkalion press release May of 2012, and on page 18 of the 35 page document there is a picture of one of the spark plugs laying on a table. It is somewhat unusual in that it has a very long threaded body. I did some looking and found a similar plug from Ford Motorcraft Number SP-509. They are almost the same, short of a body that is not quite threaded all the way to the tip. Anyway I have to say that it most certainly a spark plug and not a glow plug. Robert Dorr At 12:44 PM 7/15/2012, you wrote: I supposed DGT can replace spark plug for glow plugs to misdirect, but that would still not explain the temp spike. Sparks are the only mechanism that can bring H2 temps that high and then quickly back down again. Glow plugs will not result in a temp spike. When you look at the end plates of DGT reactors, you will notice that the thermocouples are very close to the spark plug. A series of sparks would quickly raise the temperature of the H2 gas in the vicinity of the sparks, which is also where the thermocouples are. Then a second later, the hot H2 gas diffuses and the temps are down again. Hence a temp spike. Jojo - Original Message - From: mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.comBob Higgins To: mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.comvortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 3:19 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! After surfing the different glow plugs on the web, I believe that Jojo is correct, that what is shown in the pictures offered by DGT are probably spark plugs. However, might there be misdirection in DGT's pictures? Would a glow plug screw in place of the spark plug in their reactor? DGT could have put the spark plugs in their reactor for the pictures, while they normally use glow plugs in those positions. The spare spark plug on the table was obvious and suspiciously left in the open. Another possibility is that DGT found that the glow plugs were wearing out too quickly and they modified their reactor for a different type of heater that would have greater life. Since they were left with the tapped glow plug holes, they plugged the holes with the spark plugs. The spark plugs are never shown connected, but everything else is shown connected. The comment from WM about DGT having trouble with the glow plugs not lasting long enough goes with what Jojo observes for a glow plug. I am not convinced either way. Bob On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Jojo Jaro mailto:jth...@hotmail.comjth...@hotmail.com wrote: And only if you want to waste your money. Like I said, they don't last very long when used continously as would be the case if DGT were using these to heat their reactors. A heating cartridge would make more sense for heating. I tried using glow plugs in my first generation reactors with so-so results. They tend to overheat and melt your ingredients. Hard to control heat output. They are designed to heat fast and furious. Controllability is not an issue for their intended application as Diesel engine preheaters as they are fired only for a few seconds. but, even in their intended application in diesel engines, they are one of the more frequently failing items. Jojo PS. Those pictures are definitiely spark plugs. No question about it. - Original Message - From: mailto:alain.sep...@gmail.comAlain Sepeda To: mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.comvortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:14 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! using a glowplug for heating is very natural, since it is very resistant, cheap, and easy to find. -- Regards, Bob Higgins
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
Sorry for the double post and a correction, I said the part was Ford Motorcraft Number SP-509, but it should be Ford Motorcraft Number SP-507. Robert Dorr
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
what photography are you looking ? [image: Images intégrées 1] this one clearly is imcompatible with a spark plug. see the round end. for the glowplug, the standard diesel one are made to heat quickly to high temperature (few seconds). DGT tell that their control method was to quickly heat the reactor, so that it trigger the reaction.when temperature fall, they trigger again... absolutely compatible with that kind of plug. maybe they use a variant which is more tough than usual, or maybe is the frequency so low that it works nicely for long period. nice engineering solution. 2012/7/15 Robert Dorr rod...@comcast.net I had a look at the multi-page Defkalion press release May of 2012, and on page 18 of the 35 page document there is a picture of one of the spark plugs laying on a table. It is somewhat unusual in that it has a very long threaded body. I did some looking and found a similar plug from Ford Motorcraft Number SP-509. They are almost the same, short of a body that is not quite threaded all the way to the tip. Anyway I have to say that it most certainly a spark plug and not a glow plug. Robert Dorr At 12:44 PM 7/15/2012, you wrote: I supposed DGT can replace spark plug for glow plugs to misdirect, but that would still not explain the temp spike. Sparks are the only mechanism that can bring H2 temps that high and then quickly back down again. Glow plugs will not result in a temp spike. When you look at the end plates of DGT reactors, you will notice that the thermocouples are very close to the spark plug. A series of sparks would quickly raise the temperature of the H2 gas in the vicinity of the sparks, which is also where the thermocouples are. Then a second later, the hot H2 gas diffuses and the temps are down again. Hence a temp spike. Jojo - Original Message - From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 3:19 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! After surfing the different glow plugs on the web, I believe that Jojo is correct, that what is shown in the pictures offered by DGT are probably spark plugs. However, might there be misdirection in DGT's pictures? Would a glow plug screw in place of the spark plug in their reactor? DGT could have put the spark plugs in their reactor for the pictures, while they normally use glow plugs in those positions. The spare spark plug on the table was obvious and suspiciously left in the open. Another possibility is that DGT found that the glow plugs were wearing out too quickly and they modified their reactor for a different type of heater that would have greater life. Since they were left with the tapped glow plug holes, they plugged the holes with the spark plugs. The spark plugs are never shown connected, but everything else is shown connected. The comment from WM about DGT having trouble with the glow plugs not lasting long enough goes with what Jojo observes for a glow plug. I am not convinced either way. Bob On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: And only if you want to waste your money. Like I said, they don't last very long when used continously as would be the case if DGT were using these to heat their reactors. A heating cartridge would make more sense for heating. I tried using glow plugs in my first generation reactors with so-so results. They tend to overheat and melt your ingredients. Hard to control heat output. They are designed to heat fast and furious. Controllability is not an issue for their intended application as Diesel engine preheaters as they are fired only for a few seconds. but, even in their intended application in diesel engines, they are one of the more frequently failing items. Jojo PS. Those pictures are definitiely spark plugs. No question about it. - Original Message - From: Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:14 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! using a glowplug for heating is very natural, since it is very resistant, cheap, and easy to find. -- Regards, Bob Higgins image.jpeg
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
This is a Bosch iridium/platinum spark plug similar to the ones used in my Scion: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31siZsBbVoL._SL500_AA300_.jpg They are good for about 100,000 miles. They are required replacements in order to meet the California emissions standards. The deep threads are required to reach through the aluminum head. Now what is so special about iridium/platinum? Dunno. But, the use of a spark was mentioned earlier regarding the Langmuir torch. The spark will provide energy to dissociate the H2 molecule providing an rapid source of atomic H. You can figure the rest out yourselves. T
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! spark glow and conduct
This is really unhelpful but I offer it anyway: In my youth I came across spark plugs being used as cheap, rugged, hermetic, high voltage power leads into a vacuum chamber - or was it a pressure vessel - whatever... The spark end was bent straight, welded to a wire. Ol' Bab On 7/15/2012 12:48 PM, Bob Higgins wrote: There was no attempt at misdirection on my part - I was simply recounting what I was told at WM. However, I don't believe that the person who told me had direct first-hand knowledge, and while he may have been mistaken, I don't think he was intentionally trying to mislead me. At first, I didn't think the statement made much sense - what would glow plugs be used for in a situation where there is no combustion? But, and I have no idea what devices are available ... Is it possible that a glow plug may exist that could be used as a filament for electron discharge as in an electron tube? Such a glow plug might still need the ceramic HV insulation. Electron discharge in the chamber would be more active in the cell than just sparking a spark plug. I thought I would post it for comment. Bob On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com mailto:jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Let's put this misdirection attempt to rest once and for all. A glow plug requires low voltage to heat. (Usually between a few volts to 6 volts.) A glow plug does not require a tall ceramic insulatior. A glow plug has a long elongated cylinderical tube that contains the heating element inside. The pictures Terry posted from Amazon are glow plugs. A spark plug requires a tall insulator to prevent volatage leakage since it is fired using high voltages. A spark plug will have a long threaded part (f it is long reach), and a small gap at the end. The picture in DGT document is a spark plug. Any mechanic Joe blow will tell you that. Notice the tall ceramic insulator. I wonder what motivation people have in spreading this misdirection? Unbelievable how people can lie to your face nowadays and keep it cool. Unbelievable. BTW, a spark plug fired at 300 hz (18,000 RPM) will draw less than 100 watts. COP is not an issue if sparks are used. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Alain Sepeda mailto:alain.sep...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Sunday, July 15, 2012 10:59 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! no spark gap on the photo, seems right. whether a glow or spark plug is a very important detail if a spark plug is needed, there is a needed quantity of energy that have to be electric, and this limit the COP. if only heat is used, that mean that the reactor itself, or another reactor, can provide the heat, so the COP can have no limit else the insulation and controllability 2012/7/15 Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com Doesn't look like glow plugs: http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8rh=n%3A15729261page=1 -- Regards, Bob Higgins
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
I believe you are mistaken. The round white end is the insulating ceramic. If you look closely, you can barely see the protruding electrode. The ground electrode can not be clearly seen. Either it can not be seen in this picture due to its angle or it has been cut off. Cutting off the ground electrode is not as unusual and crazy as you might first think. Realize that the entire outer body of the spark plug is intended to be the ground potential. It is quite easy for DGT to provide an alternative ground electrode. That way, they can adjust spark gap distance. I do this myself for my Arc Discharge nanotube reactor. I buy a long reach spark plug (long threaded part), I cut it down, then cut down the ceramic insulator to expose the electrode core. Then I insert it into a cylinder and ground the cylinder. This allows me to vary the spark distance by varying the diameter of the cylinder. Simple solution. Solves the fouling problem that I run into a lot in my early designs. Jojo - Original Message - From: Alain Sepeda To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:53 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! what photography are you looking ? this one clearly is imcompatible with a spark plug. see the round end. for the glowplug, the standard diesel one are made to heat quickly to high temperature (few seconds). DGT tell that their control method was to quickly heat the reactor, so that it trigger the reaction.when temperature fall, they trigger again... absolutely compatible with that kind of plug. maybe they use a variant which is more tough than usual, or maybe is the frequency so low that it works nicely for long period. nice engineering solution. 2012/7/15 Robert Dorr rod...@comcast.net I had a look at the multi-page Defkalion press release May of 2012, and on page 18 of the 35 page document there is a picture of one of the spark plugs laying on a table. It is somewhat unusual in that it has a very long threaded body. I did some looking and found a similar plug from Ford Motorcraft Number SP-509. They are almost the same, short of a body that is not quite threaded all the way to the tip. Anyway I have to say that it most certainly a spark plug and not a glow plug. Robert Dorr At 12:44 PM 7/15/2012, you wrote: I supposed DGT can replace spark plug for glow plugs to misdirect, but that would still not explain the temp spike. Sparks are the only mechanism that can bring H2 temps that high and then quickly back down again. Glow plugs will not result in a temp spike. When you look at the end plates of DGT reactors, you will notice that the thermocouples are very close to the spark plug. A series of sparks would quickly raise the temperature of the H2 gas in the vicinity of the sparks, which is also where the thermocouples are. Then a second later, the hot H2 gas diffuses and the temps are down again. Hence a temp spike. Jojo - Original Message - From: Bob Higgins To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 3:19 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things! After surfing the different glow plugs on the web, I believe that Jojo is correct, that what is shown in the pictures offered by DGT are probably spark plugs. However, might there be misdirection in DGT's pictures? Would a glow plug screw in place of the spark plug in their reactor? DGT could have put the spark plugs in their reactor for the pictures, while they normally use glow plugs in those positions. The spare spark plug on the table was obvious and suspiciously left in the open. Another possibility is that DGT found that the glow plugs were wearing out too quickly and they modified their reactor for a different type of heater that would have greater life. Since they were left with the tapped glow plug holes, they plugged the holes with the spark plugs. The spark plugs are never shown connected, but everything else is shown connected. The comment from WM about DGT having trouble with the glow plugs not lasting long enough goes with what Jojo observes for a glow plug. I am not convinced either way. Bob On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: And only if you want to waste your money. Like I said, they don't last very long when used continously as would be the case if DGT were using these to heat their reactors. A heating cartridge would make more sense for heating. I tried using glow plugs in my first generation reactors with so-so results. They tend to overheat and melt your ingredients. Hard to control heat output. They are designed to heat fast and furious. Controllability is not an issue for their intended
Re: [Vo]:Harping on the Right Things!
On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** I believe you are mistaken. The round white end is the insulating ceramic. If you look closely, you can barely see the protruding electrode. The ground electrode can not be clearly seen. Either it can not be seen in this picture due to its angle or it has been cut off. You are entitled to your opinion and I will defend to the death your right to have it. I just disagree! :-) T
